I'm much more interested in electing a President who can guide us out of the
financial mess we are in, and not so much in electing a President because of his
personal beliefs, if any, in God.
Gee, even the LA Times says "Twenty-seven percent of Democrats said they
wouldn't support a Mormon for president, compared with 20 percent for
Republicans"I thought dems were supposed to be more tolerant
and open-minded. I've always known that was not true.
Who ever wrote the title to this editorial got a little carried away with the
headline "Religious Bigotry". You can't always gauge a person's
motivation by the results of a poll. In a 2010 survey by Gallop, 90% of Mormons
self described themselves as "very" or "moderately"
conservative! This was the highest of any American religion asked. It is not
surprising that Democrats wouldn't vote for a Mormon since LDS voters are so
homogeneously Republican, that it is almost like asking Democrats, "Would
you vote for a conservative?"
My whole argument here is that in our state one of the biggest litmus tests is
whether or not someone is LDS, when it comes to voting for them. Should it? No,
but it does. Should it at the national level? No, but it does. Does it come
with the territory then that folks that are LDS (Mr. Romney and Mr. Huntsman)
should address it? Yes. The scrutiny is unfair but it is what it is.
It would be interesting to see a poll of Mormons to see how willing this
population would be to support a Scientologist for President. Does their
tolerance extend to other less historically represented groups? Muslims?
Buddhists? Or is this mostly just an issue of LDS looking to join the
mainstream, getting into the "club" of accepted religions?
At this point I'll take a small government atheist for President. Anybody but
what we have now. I'm appalled at how many people have made such a stink over
Mitt Romney's religion. His religious beliefs are at the bottom of my
"concern" list. I just want a boring but effective President, in 2012
I'll be voting with my wallet.
@10ccGet out your pencil and I will start your poll: As a Mormon I will
vote for the most qualified person given the needs of the country as I see them
with no regard for his/her religion if any. ("it's the economy,
All those who lay all the countries problems at the feet of Obama are being very
unfair. Obama doe not legislate. Congress does that. The president can
suggest. Put forth ideas for bills. He does not pass bills. He does not raise
taxes. Nor does he lower taxes. Look at the record of the
congress since Obama has been president. Have the Republicans even tried to
support the president?? Which party has almost brought the country to the
brink of default twice? Almost a third time?? Which party may also do the same
in November then the continuing resolution needs to be approved??In
order for the country to progress the Congress and the President must work
together. Compromise is the solution. The T Party and the republicans do not
compromise. THAT is the problem!!
Re: 10CC | 8:04 a.m. Oct. 14, 2011 Why in the world would Mormons
care if the president was Sentologist, Muslim or Buddhist? There is nothing in
the US Constitution that suggests religious belief is a prerequisite to be a
president.What Mormons want is someone who understands the US
Constitution and has some basic concept about how to balance a checkbook.
"What Mormons want is someone who understands the US Constitution and has
some basic concept about how to balance a checkbook." When have
we ever had one of those?
Re; Well ReadAll those who lay all the countries problems at the
feet of Bush are being very unfair. Bush did not legislate. Congress does that.
The president can suggest. Put forth ideas for bills. He does not pass bills. He
does not raise taxes. Nor does he lower taxes. Look at the record of
the congress during the Bush administration. Did the Domocrats even try to
support the president?? Which party has almost brought the country to its knees
with an unsurmountable debt which resulted in a downgrading of our credit
rating. Which party wants to ignore the warning signs and increase our spending
and debt even more!?In order for the country to progress the
Congress and the President must work together. Fiscal responsibility is the
solution. The far left and the democrats did not compromise with Bush and won't
do it now. The Democrats (and to a much lessor extent, Republicans) have no
fiscal conscience. THAT is the problem!!
@Rifleman | 9:46 a.m. Oct. 14, 2011 "What Mormons want is
someone who understands the US Constitution and has some basic concept about how
to balance a checkbook."Mitt Romney will likely win 80 to 90%
of the vote here in Utah. Is he the most likely to understand the US
Constitution and balance the nation's checkbook? When asked if he would need
Congressional authority to launch an attack against Iran, Mitt Romney stated he
would have to "talk with (his) attorneys". Where does Romney find
justification for bank bailouts in the Constitution? I've searched Romney's
website for a reference to the Constitution and I couldn't find it. You might
have better luck.If we Mormons only wanted someone who
"understands the Constitution and has some basic concept about how to
balance a checkbook" we might see more support for Ron Paul, Champion of
the Constitution and who has never voted for an unbalanced budget and pledges to
balance our nation's budget. It is telling that we do not see such support
here.This is more about religion than we would like to admit.
Re: JoeBlow | 10:18 a.m. Oct. 14, 2011 "When have we ever had one of
those?"Not that I particularly favor Mitt Romney but he pulled
Salt Lake City's fat out of the fire when the 2002 Winter Olympic Games were
headed for financial disaster. Most people have forgotten the scandal that
@lost in DC"I thought dems were supposed to be more tolerant and
open-minded."Gallup polling shows Democrats are more willing to
vote for blacks, women, jews, catholics, hispanics, atheists, homosexuals,
people married three times...Republicans have Mormons and 72 year olds (the
elderly one being the only one that conservatives had over liberals in 2007; yes
even liberals in 2007 were more willing to vote for Mormons than
conservatives... maybe Prop 8 caused the reversal).Notice anything
about the categoriees Democrats are more willing to vote for? Those are
constituencies that are primarily Democratic. The Mormons and elderly...
primarily Republican constituencies. I think a few of the respondants are
treating the question as "that category tends to be the opposite
politically as me... so I probably wouldn't vote for them".
Rifleman said: Not that I particularly favor Mitt Romney but he pulled Salt Lake
City's fat out of the fire when the 2002 Winter Olympic Games were headed for
financial disaster. Most people have forgotten the scandal that threatened
it.Not how I remember it, he just showed up for the credit and to
save Governor Levitts from being brought in (rightfully) to the scandal that
wasn't anything lobbyist do everyday at the capital there in our fair state.But back to bigotry-poor perry's wife says they're being tortured by
everyone because her husband is the "most" religious, even his own
party is attacking him.The right wing teahaudist have now excluded
even there own whether it be mittens or perry or anyone else because of the
mixed message of "manifest destiny" for the country.
@idablu"Which party has almost brought the country to its knees with
an unsurmountable debt which resulted in a downgrading of our credit
rating."The downgrade was due to three factors.1. too
much spending (give that to both parties since both are responsible for building
debt, and the largest deficit deal on the table was the 4 trillion dollar one
Obama was trying to get... but hey give that to democrats if you want)2.
too little taxation (republicans are blocking that)3. too much
partisanship and too high a risk of defaulting on the debt (Bachmann WANTED us
to crash into the debt ceiling, that ones' on the tea party)So 2 of
the 3 biggest reasons for the debt downgrade are republican ones. Oh, by the way, S&P ratings are junk. The next business day after the
downgrade when the DOW lost 400 points... what were those people putting money
into that day? US treasuries, the very thing that just got downgraded. Nobody
cared that it got downgrded, they still wanted those now AA+ plus treasuries.
Idablu - I could have sworn this article was about religious bigtry, but since
the DN montior totally rejected (didn't write me a nastigram) my comment
addressing that subject but whole-heartedly printed your concern about President
Bush's support from Democrats, let me comment on your question."Did the Democrats even try to support the president??" Why yes,
yes they did. The following chart shows how:Average Democratic
Senate support for Bush: 45.5 percent. Average Democratic House support
for Bush: 36.8 percent. Average combined Democratic support for Bush: 41.1
percent. Average Republican Senate support for Obama: 8.8 percent.
Average Republican House support for Obama: 2.7 percent. Average combined
Republican support for Obama: 5.75 percent.Much to my chagrin, much
of George Bush's policies would not have been put in place without Democratic
support in the House and Senate. I'm not happy about that but at least they're
not obstructionsists. That label belongs to just one party.
2nd repost, of "The Real Truth", Re: "Religious bigotry".
LQQK, I'm now going to tell you the truth, and yes, the truth shall
never be covered up, if you don't believe me, ask Utah's icon "poster
boy" Glenn Beck. WHEN a Mormon, is running for a public Office, (in this
case Romney and Huntsman), for The White House, they should never be pampered
as if they are some sort of special Utah pampered poodle types, because they
are LDS, they are open for public criticism, and if the heats to
"HOT" for them, (as the Utah sympathizers puts it), then these
runner's needs to quit right now, and, get out of the kitchen. If they are so
sensitive now about a "cult" word, right now, then when a real
conflict erupts while in Office, they'll never be able to handle it, and could
get us all killed. Or this time, really crash America beyond any bandage
quick fix that could last our lifetime. America's don't want RINO wimp's
running the show in The White House, so the middleclass has to pay for their
error's and mistakes. I told ya'll I would tell you the truth. Are
Yes, why are religious people so bigoted towards others? Would mormon voters
support an openly gay candidate? Or would they say thier religion keeps them
from doing that? I think we know the answer.
atl 134,the gallop poll you cite does not refute the fact that more dems
will not support a mormon than repubs - it may explain it, but it still shows
dems are more biased against mormons than repubsECRthe support
numbers you post should not surprise anyone - bush was not conservative, so he
would be more likely to garner dem support and BO was the most liberal senator
when he was in the senate and he has not moved at all to the center, so of
course he will garner very little repub support.The fact BO garners
very little repub suport is a good thing because the vast majority of BO's
policies and his objectives are destructive to the American way of life. I'm
GLAD the repubs are trying to obstruct BO destructive policies.
@lost in DC"the gallop poll you cite does not refute the fact that
more dems will not support a mormon than repubs - it may explain it, but it
still shows dems are more biased against mormons than repubs"Thankfully I was only trying to explain where some of it may be coming from
rather than refuting the fact. It seems to me that Democrats disagree with
Mormons on a more political level. For instance, a liberal agnostic friend of
mine from California went from having a neutral view of the church to having a
very negative view of it after Prop 8. Now she might be running conformancy
tests on LDS candidates where she'd need to know if they would automatically
conform to any position from salt lake on issues like gay marriage if the church
were to get involved on such an issue since there's now precedent. Harry Reid
disagreed with church involvement and his fireside was then protested into
cancellation. Others call for his excommunication. Republicans seem to disagree
with Mormons on a religious level (Mormons are very conservative on average so
unwillingness to vote for Mormons is probably not based on political issues).
@lost in DC As the article states it is unclear how many people
would not vote for a mormon because they believe they are a cult or for other
reasons. I suppose it never occurred to you that democrats maybe less willing to
vote for a mormon because the mormon church and the ht mormon politicians tend
to aline them selfs with the far right when it comes to issues that democrats
find important? it seems the argument I keep hearing from Romney supporters is
that people should vote for Romney based on his stance on the issues and now you
are trying to tell us that democrats intolerant if they vote based on the issues
if he is a mormon which is it?
The day an LDS politicians stands up and supports the issues important to me
such as LGBT rights, a women's right to choose, ending the tax cuts for the
rich, regulating commerce etc... I will vote for them in a heart beat, the
problem is the second they do you will claim that they are not really a mormon
(reference your comments above about bush being a lib). so you tell me whose
Since Mormons have voted in national elections for over a century, it's fair to
say Mormons are open to voting for qualified candidates of any religion. I
don't think any candidate has been bold enough to stand by a commitment to
atheism, to a non-Christian religion, or to homosexuality, so it's pure
assumption and self-righteous elitism that causes anyone, such as 10cc, to imply
that Mormons are too close-minded to vote for anyone except those of the
perceived club 10cc thinks we desperately want to join.But, I'll
take your bait and give you an honest answer. I wouldn't vote for anyone who
lacked the humility to acknowledge a higher power that might be invoked for the
blessings of divine providence on our nation. I think that's a pretty large
circle, but of course would exclude an atheist, for me. That's my
religious test, and despite the ridiculously ignorant claim that my having a
personal religious test represents a trampling of the constitution, I have every
right to vote according to any motivation I see fit - atheists have every
constitutional right to run for President. I just wouldn't vote for one, and
that's my right.
Dear Well Read. No he doesn't pass bills, but he signs them and his party his
party never did submit a budget for Congress to pass, therefore they keep
passing these stop gap measures. The Republicans are to blame for not doing
this since they regained the House.He, President Obama, can enforce
the law and his stance on illegal aliens borders on being a traitor. Telling
his border agents to not jail them unless they are criminals. Apparently in his
eyes being illegal is not a criminal act. He also needs to fire Gaitner who is
doing his policy bidding and putting us further into the red. His attorney
General lied to congress and he should fire him. He can set the
tone and his continue pointing the finger at others is setting a negative tone.
Instead of asking both side to work together he points out that Republicans are
stumbling blocks, ignoring those in his party who are resistant to his demands.
RE: David King "This is more about religion than we would like to admit.
" In the United States almost everything is about religion.
let me ask you this lost in DC, how do you feel about huntsman (also LDS)? Even
though we do not see eye to eye I actually have a great deal of respect for him
as a statesman and would actually consider voting for him given the chance.
"Would mormon voters support an openly gay candidate?"Why
do we have to be "openly anything"?? If one is gay, why not just shut
up about it, and go about your business. If you are gay, so what, I
don't care.Romney is not "openly Mormon", i.e., he doesn't
go around announcing his religion. He is quiet about it, unless someone else
wants to harp about it.
Sorry, I am not going to vote for Romney, or Huntsman, based on two criteria.
The first is that they are both dis-connected with 90% of the citizens in this
country by one factor - wealth. They were both born with those "silver
spoons" and have never worked for anything in their lives. My second
criteria is because they are "Mormon" as am I, and I am not confident
in their character as being rich to uphold the values of the church that I hold
dear, in fact I am afraid that if either is elected, their faults will become
the church's and not their own.
well you pretty much answered that question in the negative didn't you Tom?Do you really think Romney is not openly mormon? Do you remember what
happened to Huntsman on these threads when he would not declare to the world he
was mormon? I have to wonder if we would be having this same conversation if
Huntsman was the front runner and not Romney, past threads indicate we would
not. Should Romney's religion matter? absolutely not, Romney's
religion makes no difference to me but his right wing politics do.
His "values" include discriminating against GLBT Americans. They also include corporate consolidation and downsizing (i.e., laying off
1000's of employees - some "job creator, eh?).Two distinct
reasons NOT to vote for Romney.
I vote for someone with high standards and values, ie. honesty, morality, NOT on
someones religious beliefs.
aghast:So how poor does one have to be to meet your threshold of
"worthiness" and earn your vote??By default, then, you
believe Obama is connected to the "90%" and therefore, will deserve
your vote. Do I have that right?George (Bronx NY): Are you saying
Romney should go around thumping on his Book of Mormon? And I like how you
describe him as "right wing". Romney/Rubio 2012
where in the world did you get that from George's post tom?
Romney will not be elected, but it will not be because of his religious beliefs.
Rather it will be his inability to generate any passion for his vision or ideas
for America. Listening and watching this candidate is about as inspiring as
watching a card board cut out being held up as a sign.
I'm curious....Just How many of the "Religion Doesn't
matter" folks actually supported New York City Muslims seeking to build a
cultural center?Did you stand up against Religous Bigoty and
Intolerance then?As I very clearly recall -- NO, you did not. You
were part of the persecutors. Now, it's a different story.
lost in DC | 7:38 a.m. Oct. 14, 2011 West Jordan, UT Gee, even the
LA Times says "Twenty-seven percent of Democrats said they wouldn't support
a Mormon for president, compared with 20 percent for Republicans"I thought dems were supposed to be more tolerant and open-minded. I've always
known that was not true. ====================== H-E-L-L-O, "Democrats" elected Republican Mitt Romney as
Governor of Massachucetts.And Harry Reid is the highest ranking Mormon in
America today....Thanks to those very same sort of Democrats.Proves
once and for all that polls mean nothing.Yes, Democrats ARE more
tolerant and open-minded.Certainly much, Much more the Republicans are
being to one of their own.So, I guess you're still wrong.
@CougarBlueThe House passed a budget on Feb 19, 2011, in a 238-189
vote. The Senate has not produced a budget in over two years.
We carry on no end about porn, but it's religion that's ruining our country.
Is religious bigotry any different the equal rights bigotry?
Obama alienated the GOP with his hardline of forcing Obamacare through. It cam
back to bite him.