We all saw this coming - slow but surely! It's here. These so-called
"christians" were waiting and holding onto their "Mormon
pitchforks" thinking that Perry would certainly win. Now that Perry is
slipping and fading, these "christians", in desperation, are resorting
to what they see as their most effective weapon - Mormonism!.... Sad!
When I listened to Perry the first thought that struck me, when he enlightened
us about his distaste for Mitt, was that I couldn't vote for a person who is
bigoted, even if it meant voting left. I wondered if he had anything to do
with the anti-Mormon programs on Texas TV and News. One thing our Country needs
is less bigotry. Many Christians understand that memebers of the Church of Jesus
Christ are Christian, although we may believe in a slightly different Jesus.
(LDS believe in the Biblical Jesus and not the Jesus of the Alexandrian and
Nicene philosophers). Others still hold ideas that are taught to them by
misinformed persons who wish to blind and stir hatred. Someone running for
president has an obligation to investigate before speaking against other
Christians. Mitt's religion is one that insists that Jesus is teh Christ, that
the constitution is inspired, that all desreve the freedom to worship how or
what they may (even if they worship nothing, as many Americans do). During the
last LDS conferece there were no rants about Damning America or anything like
that. America will vote for many minorities, but maybe not Mormons.
no surprise here. Mitt as president is a direct threat to these big Baptist
"tv preachers" who are about as authentic as professional wrestlers.
These characters see Romney as president and they see people taking a good hard
look at the LDS church too which scares the pants off of them. Bottom line -
this is all about money for most of these tv preachers and Mitt is a threat to
their bottom line $$$.
like o, ricky keeps good company. judge people by the company they keep.
Perry is a falling star - the debates have exposed him and shown him to be
uninformed and not ready for prime time .... oh and throw in his insane
immigration policy in Texas too boot. We need the BEST to face Obama and not
another John McCain.
It makes one wonder about Rick Perry and his associates. Did he really think
that after the comments by this guy a couple of years ago that when "his
man" fell behind he would not say something stupid? It make me think that
maybe he knew about how this "minister" really feels and allowed him
to say things in hopes of stirring the pot and then just say that he doesn't
agree with it.Sorry, but at this point I really wouldn't put it past
Rick Perry or some others. I think it will back fire on them.
Rev Wright all over again......nice job Perry......watch you tank in the polls!
All religions are "cults" until they gain public acceptance.
FBC in Big D is hurting in the plate just like everyone else's pocketbook. This
is a great opportunity to defend their perspective and perhaps yield increased
Re: libertarian"All religions are "cults" until they gain
public acceptance"Good luck with that.
On my mission (many years ago in a similar area of the country) I was asked
several times where my horns were. Their preacher told them that Mormons had
horns. (no lie) I have yet to find any horns on my head. Maybe
that goes with the Cult thing. Another "Christian"
minister told all that we were Angels from the Devil. Let's see 2 guys with a
message about Christ that do not drink, smoke, chase women, and are pretty clean
cut are Angels from the Devil? Well I would hate to meet a real one. Would
like to thank those "Christian" leaders for their help. The local
Mormon Cult Branches and Wards had some new members that year. As
for this guy. Reminds me of a Shania Twain Song. So your a preacher? That
don't impressa me much. From an AZ cult member.
It reminds me of Huckabee in 2008. It is a little different and Jeffress is not
the candidate but same type of rhetoric. Mr. Romney is most likely prepared to
fend off this type of attack. The problem with Mr. Jeffress is that he is not
just addressing Mr. Romney but the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints
and it's members. It appears from this type of attack that Mr. Jeffress is not
very Christian-like himself.
This is a clear cut case of, "if the shoe fits Mitt Romney, wear it"
battle.First I'll quote a bit of this story. ""The
governor does not believe Mormonism is a cult." "The comments
Jeffress made Friday are nearly identical to things he said about Romney and The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 2007-08. Last year Media Matters
revisited the prior anti-Mormon statements Jeffress made while also noting the
pastor's "long history of inflammatory attacks on gays, Muslims, Mormons
and Hindus." "Jeffress described Romney's Mormon faith as a 'cult,'
and said evangelicals had only one real option in the 2012 primaries. Asked by
Politico if he believed Romney is a Christian, Jeffress answered: 'No'."
"END QUOTE".On National TV, FOX, ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN,
we'll settle this live for all to see, about Mitt Romney, with a
"LIVE" Q&A Polygraph screening" (we know it is completely
without any theoretical foundation and has absolutely no validity, just like
Mitt Romney), and get down to the real truth's about him, before he goes another
inch forward, in this contest, of "whoever can lie the best, gets into The
White House."My views.
Mormonism is to Protestanism what Protestanism was to Catholisim, during
First it was reverend wright and his anti-american rants. Now its this fool and
his bigotry shining like the sun. We should have judged the current president
by his close associates and we should do the same with any canditate, including
It's not hard to find bigots, but do we really need to go looking?
Rick Perry:The only thing Mormons do is:1 - feed and clothe
the poor and needy on a daily basis numbering tens of thousands, regardless of
religious belief, 2 - deliver thousands of tons of medicine and medical
supplies each year to areas devastated by natural disaster, regardless of
religious belief,3 - organize annual volunteer work forces by the hundreds
in local communities all around the country to perform meaningful service,
regardless of religious belief,4 - assist millions in becoming
self-reliant and learn the meaning of accountability,5 - maintain a
perpetual education fund to provide tuition costs to the underprivileged in
countries around the world,6 - uphold the constitution and serve in the
military to protect freedom,7 - allow all men and women everywhere to
worship how, where, or what they may,let's see, did I leave anything
out?? What "christian" acts have you performed today?
JM said, I couldn't vote for a person who is bigoted.Mormons often
misunderstand the truth for bigotry.The Catholic and Eastern
Orthodox Churches are creedal. The Anglican/ Episcopal Church. These churches
accept the historic Christian Creeds as binding definitions of Christian
doctrines. Although the Anglicans have 39 Articles of Faith, these Articles are
not strictly binding on Anglicans as a test of orthodox Anglican belief.
Lutherans, Presbyterians, some Reformed Churches are creedal and confessional:
they have denominational confessions (the Augsburg Confession, the Westminster
Confession).Baptists churches have Biblical statements of faith, but
They would all agree that Mormonism is outside the PALE of Christianity, as are
Jehovahs Witnesses and Christian Scientists.
Did everyone watch that video? UNREAL! He says Mormons don't believe Christ died
for their sins and believe in him only as a historical figure. I'd love to read
this guy Alma 7, Alma 36 Mosiah 3, 5 and countless other chapters in the Book of
Mormon without telling where it came from. He might be suprised.
It is said that Louisiana's Gov. Blanco called Salt Lake for assistance from the
Mormons before she placed a call to the governor of the large, nearby State of
Texas for help, immediately following the devastation of Hurricane Katrina.
That tells me Mormons are known to be Christians, despite the rhetoric of this
Well, I'm Mormon and I think Romney is absolutley full of it. Perry is the same.
Romney is too much like Obama if you get past your favoritism and look at his
I am always amused by these people. At best it is immature (really, name
calling?) and at best it is so deceptive. For some reason some believe that ONLY
Evangelicals can be Christians. Mormons are not Evangelicals nor are they
Protestants, but they are most certainly Christians. Those who keep up the name
calling should be ashamed of themselves. Certainly they know better.
I'm not sure whom I'm more disgusted with, the minister who thinks he has the
right to label Latter-day Saints as a cult, or the Utah Democrat Party chairman
and the others, who took advantqge of the minister's attacks to try to convince
LDS people that they should support their party.
Just Thinking Outloud, 5:43 PM, Merrimack, NH:"WRONG"
Protestanism is a process of breaking away from the Catholic Church and starting
their own Church with out the Devine authority required.Mormonism is
the Restored Church of Jesus Christ, by Devine Angels sent from Heaven. See
Isaiah 2: 2, and Micah 4: 2, Acts 1: 6 and Revelation 14: 6. If you put forth a
little effort you will find many places in the New Testament about the restored
Gospel of Jesus Christ.
California#1:Does the comment "Ho hum" have any religious
or political value? If not, why are you on this board.
donn,You're putting members of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-Day Saints in the same group as Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian
Scientists? You're forgetting a key difference between these groups and Latter
Day Saints. LDS believe Jesus Christ it the absolute Savior of the
world. Without hesitation believe in the King James version of the Bible. (It
validifies the Book of Mormon.) "Out of the mouth of 2-3 witnesses EVERY
word shall be established."LDS are as Christian as Mary
Magdalene, Paul, Peter, or any one of the disciples in the Bible.
The good pastor is running a business and the Mormon 'cult' is competition.
It's as plain and simple as that. Honest people can have honest disagreements
about doctrine, but people like this don't deal in the light of day. I did find it quite hilarious that the Utah Democrats are so welcoming and
open-minded toward Mormons. I wonder how open and welcoming their California
counter-parts would be towards Mormons after the Prop 8 battle. There is a reason the church doesn't endorse political parties or candidates.
They don't put their trust in 'the arm of flesh.' Both parties are concerned
with one thing. It's not being tolerant. It's not being diverse. It's not
solving problems and letting people govern themselves. It's about power.
Mormons need to remember that the mainline Churches determine who is Christian
or not. Not by one's faith in Christ or the personal relationship of Him
through the Holy Spirit. These church member's shameful remarks and the
Bible don't seem to go together. Their views are made by man and not the God I
know.There is no Holy Spirit here. I feel sad for their members.
I was amused by the pitch from the Democrats who are hoping that the evangelical
bigotry in the Republican party will drive Mormons to the Democrat party. Good
luck with that. The Democrats will hate us because we don't support gay
marriage and abortion.
The belief's of Senior Paster, Dr. Robert Jeffress, are posted on his Church's
website. The doctrine of baptism is identical to that of the LDS. Since
baptism is a uniquely Christian practice how can believers who practice Baptism
be labeled as Non-Christian? Here from the the BYLAWS of FIRST
BAPTIST CHURCH of Dallas, Texas is Article of Faith #7:VII. Baptism
and the Lord's SupperChristian Baptism is the immersion of a believer in
water in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit. It is an act of
obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen
Savior, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and
resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. ... Being a church
ordinance, it is a prerequisite to the priviledges of church membership and to
the Lord's Supper. The LDS 4th Article of Faith:We believe
that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the
Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the
remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.LDS require baptism before taking the sacrament.
Let's see if I understand this right, John Edwards runs for president, cheats on
his sick wife, and none of his fellow protestants say he is not a Christian.
President Bill Clinton, a Baptist, plays sex games in the oval office with a
young staffer, and none of his fellow protestants say he is not a Christian.
Governor Swarznegger of California fathers a child out of wedlock, and no
religious leader publicly says he is not a Christian. But many protestant
leaders go out of their way to attack and denounce a good member of The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day as a non-Christian. I am tempted to say that the
good reverend is not being a Christian when he says that Romney is not being a
Christian, but I cannot do such for I would be engaging in not being a
Christian. I predict that Mitt will turn the other cheek.
Very familiar with the "cult" label. While living in the east, I was
shocked to find out my nice Methodist neighbor was teaching her son, one of my
son's best friends, that our church is a cult. Mind you, I/we had never tried
to influence her son or discuss religion. Though I wanted to "put her in
her place," I turned the other cheek and let it go. The LDS
church is somewhat unique with it's dogged proselytizing and effort to convert
people from other denominations. I can imagine we LDS might look differently if
the same effort was on display by other churches. (Jehovah Witnesses are the
only ones that have come to my door.) I can imagine if I my livelihood depended
on having a congregation, I wouldn't care for Mormons too much either. Life goes on....
If Romney gets the nomination, the attacks will only get worse, and of course be
from sources not visibly connected to the Obama campaign. They will echo and
magnify every criticism ever made of any Mormon. And blame others for it.I wonder why they never had anything bad to say about Harry Reid, about
whom much bad could be said, regardless of his religion?
Why does religion matter? I don't vote for a persons religion when I vote, I
vote for the kind of person he is.
I would advise any naive people who think the LDS Church and Mitt Romney are in
a new era of acceptance readjust their view. I know this because people don't
assume I am Mormon and in the South they give me their opinions quite
honestly.Mitt will get sunk in the South again, religious bigotry is
alive and well and vastly represented in the Republican party.
DN Subscriber, you don't need to worry about Obama or the Dems sinking a knife
into Romney based on his religious affiliation. Trust me, your virtuous,
"Christian" Republican colleagues will take care of putting knives
into Romney based on being LDS long before, and with greater vigor, than the
Dems ever will.
Anti Bush-Obama: Obama put this country in deep financially trouble. Romney
could bring us out of that hole.
In 2008 Mike Huckabee's bigoted campaign sunk Romney's chances. He preferred to
have John McCain as the candidate if he couldn't have it himself. Huckabee
threw his delegates in West Virginia to McCain when it was apparent Romney would
win there. Romney's campaign soon folded. As a result the Republicans ended up
with McCain, a candidate who in the summer of 2008 stated "economics is not
my strong suit." At the convention in August, instead of choosing Romney
as VP running mate, a strong economic draw for votes, McCain Chose Palin. In
September we had the Wall Street melt down. We elected an unexperienced,
unprepared person who promised change because the Republicans had one of the
weakest tickets ever who minimized economics and advertised it wasn't their
strong suit.Now we have religious bigotry again raising it's ugly
head. Rick Perry needs to take responsibility for his supporters and campaign,
to denounce it totally, let people know of Mitt Romney's commitment to his
Cristian Religion and apologize publicly and profusely. Failure to do so and
stay away from the religious bigotry will doom the Republicans in 2012.
Pssst. Mormons: guess what, the right wing doesn't really like you. They keep
you around for your money and your votes, but they'll never consider you
"one of them."
"snowman | 10:44 p.m. Oct. 7, 2011 Provo, UTAnti Bush-Obama:
Obama put this country in deep financially trouble. Romney could bring us out of
that hole."I'm sorry, did you miss the part where Bush spent 6
Trillion dollars?Also, I guarantee you that this level of anti LDS
bigotry will not come from the people who support Obama. The Christian right
wing Republican Party is a close minded party that loves to support White
Christians no matter how terrible their policies are. Perry gets support
because of this but he already has shown that under him, taxes and spending are
up. He had no problem using that 17 Billion in Federal stimulus.Open your eyes fellow LDS and see what the Republican party has become, a
group based on promoting the ultra rich, the people that look only like you and
worship only like you. They love the ultra rich and disparage the poor. This
is what the Savior earned of.
So what does Mitt Romney's Mormon Faith believe? If people want to know don't
listen to the bigotry of campaign introductions. Look it up: Mitt belongs to
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints commonly reffered to as Mormons.
Hmmm? The Church of Jesus Christ? Seems like they would believe in the things
Jesus Christ taught doesn't it? 1. We believe in God, the Eternal
Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2 We
believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adams
transgression. 3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ,
all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Donn in Layton said:"Baptists churches have Biblical statements of
faith, but They would all agree that Mormonism is outside the PALE of
Christianity, as are Jehovahs Witnesses and Christian Scientists."You forgot Catholics. Catholics are also considered part of that
"non-Christian" group by most Southern Baptists that I have known.
Interesting, isn't it?Sad state of affairs when those who profess to
bring God's children to Christ demonstrate such strong errant judgement. I
guess we all make our mistakes.
Ben McAdams, you rule on so many levels.
@AZ Blue & Red:"I have yet to find any horns on my head.
Maybe that goes with the Cult thing."Look under the hood of
your vehicle. That's where you'll find the horns.
Perry disavowed the statements of an individual that insults Mormons? Perry
isn't smart enough to ask someone that wont offend 5 million voters that tend to
vote with his party.I really liking Romney and Cain, but I don't
think either are electable as republicans. There are too many radical idiots in
the South that will not vote for a Mormon nor an African-American. While I was
growing up, I went to a Southern-Baptist school in the south-east and was told
weekly that Mormonism is a cult, and all Mormons (including me) were going to
(bad place). Southern Baptists rule the south-eastern United
States, and they have no issues with preaching from the pulpits. Historically,
the churches were used both to preach for segregation as well as for racial
equality. Religion and politics are inseparable in the South. At the same time,
a church may support a Republican in one race and a Democrat in another, simply
for religious reasons. If a candidate doesnt pass the religious
test, a significant minority of the voters will not vote for a candidate. The
candidates political view comes in second.
@JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt:"I'm sorry, did you miss the part
where Bush spent 6 Trillion dollars?"Yes, but it took Dubya 8
years. Obama did $4 trillion in just over two. Which puts him on track to do
$16 trillion in 8 years... If he makes 8 years.------------------@BH:"Catholics are also
considered part of that 'non-Christian' group by most Southern Baptists that I
have known."Perhaps Rick Perry's backers and other Southern
Baptists meant to say that Mormons aren't Protestants.
When you go around "stealing" parishoners from a pastor, you can bet
he'll do everything he can to put your church down.So, it's not
unexpected to see ministers of various churches in America bad-mouthing the LDS
faith.This religious issue will certainly be a hurdle for Romney to
overcome to get the Republican nomination, let alone beat Obama, as bad as
Obama's popularity is.BYU wanted independence to put the church out
there more via football and other sports. This coming election might do that in
a bigger way, whether for the best or worst remains to be seen.
Mormons 3rd Article of Faith states: We believe that through the atonement of
Christ all mankind MAY be saved BY OBEDIENCE TO THE LAWS AND ORDINANCES OF THE
GOSPEL.Any true Christian knows there are NO laws and ordinances of
the gospel. The gospel is simply the good news that Jesus paid for sin and rose
from the dead. Period. If salvation comes by obedience, then it is earned, not
given as a free gift by Jesus Christ. Mormons believe they can earn their
salvation, making them their own saviors, not Jesus Christ as their savior. And
if laws and ordinances can provide salvation, then everything Paul wrote is
false, according to Mormons. Paul repeatedly wrote that there is no salvation by
the law (Torah). Indeed, as Galatians 3:17 clearly states, the promise of
salvation to Abraham had nothing to do with the law, especially since the law
did not come until over 400 years after the promise of salvation was given to
Abraham. This fact Jesus knew full well, as did Paul. There is no salvation in
laws and ordinances as the Mormons assert.
I meant to end in my last statement with "This is what the Savior Warned
of". He warned of hypocrites. He warned of the rich oppressing the poor
and leaving them for dead.I left the Republican party because it has
been taken over by people like this man who spreads hate and bigotry in the name
of Christ. It is wrong and it sickens me. Keep voting Republican everyone and
keep supporting this kind of leadership, I choose not to.
As an active Latter-day Saint I have four words in reference to this article."Could not care less."
look how much obama has spent bush does not come close and check real facts not
what your democrat friends tell you and obama has broken laws and refuses to
protect america from illegal aliens and mitt is christian
This is politics. Politicians will say and do virtually anything to get them
elected. R and D alike. It was just a matter of time before Romney
was attacked for his religion. And there was never any doubt that it would be
from fellow GOP.I see the LDS like the kid who wants to join a club.
They let you in (to the GOP) because you bring candy (votes). They don't
really like you, they laugh at you and they make fun of you.But, you
are NOT one of them and you never will be. They will NEVER truly accept you.They know that no matter what they do or say, you will still be there,
eagerly handing over your votes and taking the abuse. All the while,
thinking that you are one of them. And they continue to snicker.
This misinformed preacher did the LDS church a favor. Those who are sincere
will find out for themselves that the LDS church is the most Christian church on
the face of the earth.
"but those who want to understand the centrality of Christ to our faith can
learn more about us and what we believe by going to mormon.org."I have looked at that site.It is a sanitized version of what you
want people to see. It is the "milk" and no
"meat". I do understand why it is that way, but please,
don't pass it off as the definitive place for all LDS information and then get
mad when people ask the NON-LDS what your REALLY believe.
Brilliant move by the Utah Demos. If the main stream Republican party does not
want Mormons, then they should go where they are wanted and views considered.
Lets now see if this can translate into a better showing for Utah Demos this
voting season. I know I won't be voting for a Republican for any state-wide
offices this year... but will consider national offices.
That dog don't hunt anymore.
Here are some fundamental differences between Mormonism and mainstream
Christianity that I see:1. Mormons believe that Jesus Christ came
back to earth a second time and preached the gospel to a group of ancient
Americans that the vast majority of knowledgable people in archeology do not
think even existed. 2. The way the Book of Mormon came into
existence, was translated by a poorly educated man via golden tablets and then
these golden tablets disappear never to be seen again. All of it unprovable and
requiring the gift of faith it one is to believe. 3. The early
revelations of Joseph Smith that pronounce focus on the corporeality of God and
the belief that God, the Father himself was once a human being and evolved into
the divine; the pre-existance of souls. Or the belief that any of us can if we
are good enough do the same thing and ultimately create our own universes. Such
beliefs like this totally reject that Bible's creation story.4. The
role America plays in the second coming and the several levels of heaven that
one can attain..
It's all motivated by FEAR. When backed into a corner, when a feeling of
desperation occurs, then the natural, human tendency is to strike out in one
form or another. This is a clear example of the fear that many, especially in
the Evangelical South, have for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Mormons are a threat to their livelihood, and also in this case, to their
chosen one, Rick Perry, so they begin the old standard that Mormonism is a cult
and begin to spread around the lies and half-truths in an attempt to protect
whatever it is they fear losing. The reference to "Mormons are to
Protestants, are what Protestants were to Catholics at the time of the
reformation is right on. The Catholic Church saw that movement as a threat to
their power and influence, and ultimately income, so it and it's leaders and
followers were actively condemned and called heretical, etc. I see the same
fear in the Evangelicals, that is why they are in "attack mode".
Truth will always prevail, and though Mitt might not win, the voice of the
people will give them exactly what they deserve.
Vanka finally a comment that shows you really do not understand LDS doctrinewith your above comment as well as you believe you do All LDS know and
believe they cannot earn their salvation by their own meritthe Saviour and
the atonement are essential
And BYU fans are scratching their heads wondering how TCU was invited to join
the Big-12 ahead of themselves.
The Mormon church does as many if not more Christian acts of service than any
other religion and teaches great values to its members. To label the Mormon
church as a cult (practices beliefs or practices that are considered abnormal or
bizarre) sounds harsh for a religion that does so much good but there is some
truth to it. The real problem with the church that lends to the "Cult"
tag is its foundation and early teachings and what they are based on. All
Mormons would be wise to read everything on Mormonthink dot com to learn the
true history of their church that many don't know about.
If someone would be good enough to show in the Bible where it says, "God
himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man" like Joseph Smith
claimed, or that, Satan "is a spirit brother of ours and of our Lord Jesus
Christ" like Joseph F. Merrill argued in General Conference, or that
"As a Spirit personage the Holy Ghost has size and dimensions. He does not
fill the immensity of space, and cannot be everywhere present in person at the
same time," like Joseph Fielding Smith taught, then I'll gladly reconsider
whether or not Mormonism is a Christian entity.Until then, the
Mormons do not provide anyone with an objective reason why Mormonism should be
considered anything other than a caricature of Christianity. And to be griping
and complaining when that conclusion is reached, when all the Mormons would have
to do is provide those references, is simply more indicative of non-Christian
behavior (see 1 Pet. 3:15 cf. Acts 17:11). So, do I have any takers or will the
response be met with the usual whining and griping?
I find it rather inspiring that we live in a nation that allows free speech so
readily. Would you rather have Syrian-style oppression of those taking to the
streets to exercise their first amendment rights? Batons and rubber bullets so
you can have an easier time getting home once in a while?
Mitt unquestionably belongs to a cult, but it's not Mormonism. He's a true
believer of two cults, actually: neoconservatism and Keynesianism. In my book,
that makes him a believer in magic. Magic is what happens when your actions
produce impossible results, and it's always an illusion.
Any person professing to be Christian that takes Jeffress' view has checked his
Christian card at the door. What religious affiliation has the right to
determine who is Christian and who is not. Jeffress exhibits the most
un-Christian view that smacks of outright bigotry. Being Christian is a personal
choice not left to be defined by someone else.
We should refuse to let religion be a part of the discussion at all. Since we
won't, this is where we're going to end up every time, slinging mud at one
another. Religion doesn't have to bring any proof or verifiability to the table
at all. That's why it divides us so effectively.
I don't really hold Rick Perry responsible for the words of every person,
prominent or not, that happens to support him.To Christians who
think of Mormonism as a cult-the strangest thing that Mormons believe is that
2000 years ago a guy was born to a virgin who eventually died on a cross that in
some cosmic way atoned for the sins of mankind. Viewed from an outsiders point
of view anyone's religion is ridiculous and absurd. So whatever criticism you
have of Mormonism can just as easily be applied to what you believe.
I think an LDS church member should hand deliver a copy of the Book Of Mormon to
Pastor Jeffress. So that the next time he decides to declare the LDS church a
cult, he'll have some scriptures to backup his remarks.
A preacher who doesn't follow the Golden Rule isn't much of a preacher. it is
interesting that this guy is the opposite side of the same coin as Reverend
Wright, the President's religious leader. Huh? hatred on both sides of the
isle? go figure.
@donn - so we are to understand by your statement that it isn't so much that
Mormons are not Christians, as much as to say that Mormons don't meet the
definition that YOU have of what a Christian is. Since your definition is based
on doctrines determined by man (the Catholic Church) over 1500 years ago, I am
OK with that.
Vanka | 2:46 a.m. Oct. 8, 2011 Provo, UT "Any true Christian
knows there are NO laws and ordinances of the gospel." Who are
you to tell Him, that someone is not Christian?Salvation is free,
but the outward reflection of "works" is required as James has stated.
Jesus also taught that faith required works, and works requires faith. Paul's
discussion was with a population that needed to learn about the inner
conversion. James was the more senior apostle and was holistically (whole body)
teaching the whole church, that they had works to perform. James
2:26"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without
works is dead also."Matthew 7:21-23 21Not every one that
saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that
doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven..."(shortonwords)For every verse you quote to support your view, I have just as many that say
otherwise. I respect your view, have shared the risks in protecting all of our
rights, and will continue to do so.All I ask is that you don't make
an unrighteous judgment. Leave it to Him.
This will do much good for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And
it may also help the Democratic Party - if it will veer back to the right and
reclaim Christian values. Such values are obviously distorted by the bigots who
make up a large element of the Republican Party. How can anyone pretending to
know something of the teachings of Jesus claim that Mormons are good moral
people but who belong to a cult? Can you gather grapes from thistles?
Now wait just a minute. This is a classic example of the pot calling
the kettle black. People fear "Cults" because they blind peoples minds
against truth. Cults throw up a smokescreen to keep their adherants from leaving
their confines. Well congratulations Mr Jeffries, you fully qualify. When pastors unsheathe their "cult" card, they are worried. It's as
if that is the only thing they have left in their arsenal of weapons against
their foe; in this case the "Mormons". But it doesn't really work.
Mr. Jeffries doesn't make the Mormons more evil, he only makes them appear to be
more evil to his own flock. It is exactly a smoke screen thrown up to keep his
own adherents from investigating, and then eventually joining the Mormons, which
too many are doing. You can't hardly give this vibrant, growing
Christian faith a serious and sincere look or prayerfully investigate their
claims with a sincere heart without coming to the realization that there is
something to it that resounds with their inner soul.I feel sad for
Mr. Jeffries. May he too investigate Mormonism with real intent so he too can
see how Christ is at the center of it.
Sometimes I wonder why we pay any attention to these "knot heads."
All of them have a different reason to say the church isn't the Lord's church,
yet among their groups they can't even agree one with another on what they
believe, if they could there would only be one church. The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church on the earth. We believe
this to be true.
It seems like we have a classic case of wanting to keep your cake and eat it,
too. Are the LDS the one and only true church, or are they indeed Christians
just like the rest of "apostate" Christianity? Pick one or the other
and stick with it. But don't whine when Christians won't affiliate with you due
to your self-proclaimed doctrines.Mormons crave the acceptance and
affirmation of "apostates" and the world, while genuine Christians
expect and accept marginalization and persecution. As the Lord said, "If
they persecuted me, they will also persecute you" (John 15:18-20). My
brothers are martyred by the thousands each year around the world. How many LDS
are martyred each year for their faith?Muslims are more
"Christian" than Mormons are. Yet they do not clamor to be identified
with us. Trinitarianism and Creatio Ex Nihilo are mutually exclusive with the
LDS polytheism and eternal matter. The differences are too great and the
consequences are eternal. We choose to guard the purity of the Gospel rather
than to prioritize politics over religion.Those who abandon
monotheism have forfeited any claim to true religion (Deut 4:35; Isaiah 45:5).
If Romney can get the GOP nomination he can carry the south in the election.
They will vote Romney because the alternative of Obama is so much worse.It seems to me that Evangelicals are "Paulians" while the LDS
Andermart | 9:50 a.m. Oct. 8, 2011 Pullman, WA "You can't
hardly give this vibrant, growing Christian faith a serious and sincere look or
prayerfully investigate their claims with a sincere heart without coming to the
realization that there is something to it that resounds with their inner
soul.I feel sad for Mr. Jeffries. May he too investigate Mormonism with
real intent so he too can see how Christ is at the center of it. "Well spoken. Thank you!
Nice time to read Elder's Ballard and Oaks talks from last weeks General
Conference. They answered this poor fellows blather.
I just can't believe people still fall for the whole 'cult' thing about the
Mormon church. There are 13 million members around the world and the actual
name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Cults, by contrast
have small numbers and are usually very local. Cults don't do humanitarian
works either.I just have a hard time with a 'Christian' who is the
leader of a 10,000 person 'Mega-Church' saying Mormons don't believe Christ died
for their sins. Mormons DO agree with the apostle James, "Faith, without
works, is dead." That belief is a biblical based belief, not some edict
issue by emperor Constantine in the Nicean creed. To this pastor, I
would refer him to Isaiah 5:20.
snowman."Obama put us in deep financial trouble. Romney coulr
get us out of that hole."This is exactly what I mean when I
talk about getting past your favoritism and looking at the mans previous
actions.Writing the bill for ObamacareIn favor of a global
carbon tax. Advocates Abortion under circumstances where adoption is
possible. (We killed 50 million infants from abortion here in the United States.
Thats more people we murdered than those that died under Stalin.)He is in
favor of more bailouts.These are hardly things that will help the
country finacially or morally.
Also, Mitt makes no mention whatsoever of preserving the constitution on his
Kirk R Graves, Mormons don't meet the definition that YOU(Jesus) have of what a
Christian is.Jesus defines an essential of the Christian faith. I told
you that you would die in your sins. If you dont believe that I Am(Ego Eimi),
you will die in your sins.(John 8:24 Greek N.T.) Jesus tells the Jewish leaders
the same thing he told Moses He is God, blasphemy to the Jewish leaders which
will lead to His death. Christianity, believes God by definition is the
uncreated creator of all things, Aseity. Creation ex Nihlio. the dust
returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
(Ecc 12:7). Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of
authority but abandoned their own home Fallen angels(devils) Nothing to with pre
mortal being. The Bible teaches God becomes man not man becomes (God John
1:1,14). Christians want to be with God Mormons want to be God(exaltation).
MajMajor,Who am I to judge?First, I am not a Christian,
so I am not bound by the "judge not" principle.If you
read, wrote, and understood Biblical Greek, you would know that there is a
fundamental difference between "works" as used by James (one who has
faith will manifest "good works") and "Works" as in
"Torah" and "Nomos" - salvation by "laws and
ordinances", which is what the LDS 3rd Article of Faith explicitly
states.There is no doubt, LDS believe in salvation by Torah -
"laws and ordinances", and this fact is manifest in their belief in
"obedience" that makes "the atonement of Christ" contingent
on "earning" that salvation through obedience.
We appreciate all of the interest from formers, and from others curious about
the Christianity level of 14,500,000 "Mormons". You all have a divine
right to your interpretation of Biblical truths, as well as a constitutional
right. But please remember that we have that same right as members of The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We join 650 other Christian
sects in believing in the Bible wholeheartedly while not fully agreeing with
every interpretation you believe in. It is still the Bible, and it is still
about Our Savior and His Gospel. Our Great Exemplar, Jesus Christ, had the same
disagreements with many of the well established religious leaders of His day,
but that did not deter Him from boldly going forth, teaching His interpretation,
which happened to be the one true interpretation.
Vanka | 11:03 a.m. Oct. 8, 2011 Provo, UT "MajMajor, Who am I
to judge? First, I am not a Christian, so I am not bound by the "judge
not" principle."Well, if you ever want to learn about
Christianity, I can get you the names of two great teachers in your neighborhood
that would be pleased to teach you.God bless and wish you much
happiness. (This is my fourth post, no more allowed.)With much
Majmajor,I appreciate your condescending offer, but I am married to
an active, temple-worthy LDS woman, with whom I attend LDS "meetings"
every week. I have had "the discussions" no less than 5 separate times
over 20+ years, and have read the BOM and taken "Moroni's Challenge"
countless times with NO faith-confirming results. The non-falsifiable form of
Moroni's Challenge is patently fallacious, no different than the assertion of
the Tailors in the story of The Emperor's New Clothes. If you don't get
"the right" answer to Moroni's Challenge, you are personally condemned
as insincere, unworthy, too proud, or otherwise deficient in some way.At the risk of sounding arrogant, I will suggest that I know more about
Christianity than 99% of LDS members. I have yet to meet an LDS member or leader
who has proven that wrong, present company included.In addition to
the disqualifying doctrines of salvation by "obedience" to "laws
and ordinances", LDS also put forward a Jesus who brags about destroying 16
large cities filled with men, women, and children, then threatening the
survivors with destruction of they do not worship him (see 3 Nephi 9). This is
NOT the NT Jesus.
Broken Clay said it all: Chose a side and stick with it.Are you part of
the "abomination" of apostates who corrupted the Bible and distorted
original Christianity (per Joseph Smith's initial and unwavering proclamation),
or are you the "one and only true church of Jesus Christ", (which is
restated every Fast and Testimony "Sabbath")?I was born
and raised LDS and go back generations to English pioneers, persecuted there for
converting, coming here and treking from east to west, some dying in the Willey
Handcart tragedy. Temlpe-married, BYU-educated, taught and served in every
auxillary, ward and stake positions. From the '50's to the '80's, I knew how to
share the Mormon message and gospel, unlike the Joseph deniers here. We didn't
waffle and whine when asked what we thought of evangelicals, catholics or
protestants. We just quoted every prophet since 1830: They're all wrong.
Their Bible is corrupted. Only the Book of Mormon is accurate and purely
God-breathed. All their ministers are corrupt, and have no priesthood
authority, making their marriages and baptisms of no effect eternally.We ended with this: If you don't accept Mormonism, your part of heaven will
be minus Christ.
Dear Pastor in my opinion your belief of Christ is not biblically based. Christ
was in the water when his Father spoke from Heaven. I think your theory on
Christ sounds like he used ventriloquism and deception. He was in the Garden
when his Father spoke to him. Again, your theory, to me, uses ventriloquism to
explain how he can be in one place yet in another place. In John 17
Jesus said he came to do the will of the Father. Is he a liar, when according
to your belief they are the same person, yet separate. He said he wanted his
disciples to be one as his Father and He are one. Does that mean the 12
apostles are to become one person in body and spirit. No it means to be one in
unity and purpose and goal. In the scriptures Christ tells us if we are not one
we are not His. According to the scriptures you sir are not a
Christian. You believe in a Christ and a God who simply do not exist. The
modern view of Christ appeared in the 4th century after the Council of Nice. Not
Well, I am a Mormon, that is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I
know I am a Christian, so if I am a Christian and all those who in other
religions say we are not, maybe they are not Christians. If they think it has
to be either way, then I vote for them to not be the Christians and then I don't
have to throw away all my calenders and artwork of the Savior and my Christus
statue. So guess I fixed that problem ;)
P/S could you imagine the Savior going around saying to those that believed in
him and followed him, that they were not Christians, cause maybe they were not
as perfect as he is? I do think that it isn't Christ like to call those that
love the Savior and follow him "non-Christians". And even though my
belief in the Savior is different then the majority of the followers of Christ,
I do accept that they are Christians as am I, but I do feel that their attacks
towards the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS are not actions that
exemplify the Savior and how he would speak about others.
Interesting how a pastor, whose church is founded on John the Baptist (not Jesus
Christ), has qualified himself to judge the Church of Jesus Christ as not being
Christian. Perhaps the good pastor should study and apply the words of Christ in
the Holy Bible about Christian behavior. Keep an eye on Mitt Romney
and other faithful members of the LDS Church. See how they rrespond. You'll
see, pastor, how a true Christian responds. Matt 7:21 - "By
their works ye shall know them. And every tree that bringeth not forth good
fruit, is hewn down and cast into the fire."
Aa a former evangelical Christian who joined the Mormons at age 20, I find Dr.
Jefress very interesting.Dr Jeffress has just criticized the LDS
Church as being led by a man rather than by God. He called out Joseph Smith by
name.And yet his own ministry couldn't possibly be about a man could
it?Check out his First Baptist Dallas website....see his
congregation's new giant-sized parking garage going up beside the construction
of a new church building....on some of Dallas's most valuable real estate.His congregation's seven-city-block downtown campus is about to trade in
it's current Tabernacle-sized sanctuary for a Conference Center-sized
"worship center".What this pastor fears when he equates a
vote for Romney as "legitimizing a cult" is really that having a
Mormon as president might de-legitimize his own preaching of religious
bigotry.And, of course, he just happens to have a book coming out in
January...about how Christians should decide how to vote.It's too
bad really. I could follow "a good, moral man" like Jeffress. It's
just his personality cult approach to ministry that makes me unwilling to
To some (to Catholics, for example), Baptists are cultists and apostates...
I mean honestly, did we really expect anything different from Perry when we were
first introduced to him? We knew that at some point or another, Perry was going
to take the "Huckabee approach" amongst evangelical voters, it was
just a matter of time....
I respect ONLYTHECROSS posting, in that it is at least and honest admission of
the LDS belief.He writes - "We just quoted every
prophet since 1830:They're all wrong. Their Bible is corrupted. Only the
Book of Mormon is accurate and purely God-breathed. All their ministers are
corrupt, and have no priesthood authority, making their marriages and baptisms
of no effect eternally.We ended with this: If you don't accept
Mormonism, your part of heaven will be minus Christ. "What I
don't understand is this. You believe what is written above, but
get your nose bent out of shape when others don't accept you as Christian. Is
it just the wording? Let me ask you this. Which is more hurtful?
What you believe about ALL THE OTHER CHURCHES, or being called Non-Christian?You better get thicker skin if you wanna throw those big stones.
Sharrona,I know you would like to believe that Mormons are only Mormons
because they don't study or understand the bible (thus all your quotes in
attempt to prove your point). The truth is that for each reference you provide,
additional references can be provided the support the LDS view of God, the
Gospel, Salvation, Exhaltation and priesthood authority. The primary difference
is that you would have to ignore those verses in order to maintain your view,
where as I have no problem with the verses you reference because they in no way
contridict LDS doctrine when put in context and used with the rest of the Bible.
If you truly understood LDS doctrine on these points you would see that.Just to help you out: LDS doctrine says that only through faith on
Christ can one be saved by His Grace. However, if we stopped there, that would
seem contridictory to many verses in the Bible. So lets finish it. Faith MUST
include work, otherwise it isn't faith (Faith without works...). Only Christ's
Grace can save, but we must be obedient to His commands to qualify for that
With no viable choices the GOP has taken to fighting among themselves and says a
lot about the kind of people steering the party.
Do your homework, Mormons. I taught seminary, Gospel Doctrine, was Relief
Society Education counselor, had 4 years of seminary, 2 years at BYU, first 35
years of my life. I was an active, evangelistic Mormon. In my family I've got
missionaries, (Mom on her second now in Wash DC), BYU profs, bishops, elder's
quorum and R.S. and stake presidents, one general authority, published authors,
a former mission president (Ukrain's first), temple workers, etc. Am I
qualified to make a factual comment here?Read the Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith. Then answer the following:Who first caused
the rift? Who called every denomination an abomination?Who said 'none of
your preachers have any priesthood authority', to the existing 1830 churches?Who said that we have supposed that God has always existed, but I tell you
that He is an exalted man?Who said you, too, can become a god?Who
rewrote the entire KJV and you now use his JST?Who gave a new and uniquely
LDS definition of heaven, plural marriage, the nature of God, Christ and the
Holy Ghost, Word of Wisdom, baptism for dead, chance after death for eternal
decision?Claim your own history.
@Vanka:"Any true Christian knows there are NO laws and
ordinances of the gospel."Oh? It would seem the Ten
Commandments are 'laws' and baptism is an 'ordinance.'"There is
no salvation in laws and ordinances as the Mormons assert."I
guarantee, if you ignored/violated the Ten commandments you'd be found lacking
in God's Kingdom.It's said: "All have sinned and come short of
the Kingdom of Heaven." Christ died to pay the price for those sins, yet,
if one does not repent Christ's death is meaningless for them. Nothing else
makes any sense.You can't go through life in wonton sinfulness and
expect God to say, at the judgement bar: "That's OK son, you musta had a
good time on earth robbing, raping, cheating, beating your fellow man to a pulp,
even killing many, but, not to worry, Christ paid for all your monstrous deeds
and grievous sins. You come on in an siddown on my throne. Too bad your fellow
men who spent their entire lives feeding the hungry and seeing to the needs of
the poor didn't fair any better than you. Those silly nitwits."
Vanka it is your choice and yours only that allows you to be so
irritated/negative to the LDS church
In reality, while most Mormons lean Republican, there really is no party that
100% agrees with the LDS faith. I refuse to join any political party and
continue to vote unaffiliated because at the end of the day my religion does
come first and does influence all of my political choices which is why some
people who don't like Romney worry about whether a strong member of the church
will truly be able to keep his religion out of politics. Many of us worry Obama
has let his religion (whatever it is) influence his choices and we don't like
this, why should others feel differently? Don't get me wrong, I like Romney, but
worry for him in this regard.
Thank you Joe Blow, you made my point. I ran out of room before I could update
to my current spiritual condition:I am a born-again Christian now
for the past 20 plus years. Meaning I experienced the spiritual birth that all
the nutty (as I used to consider them) 'born agains' refer to. Quite
unexpected, certainly not a choice I would have made from my Mormon perspective.
It hurt, infuriated, baffled and agonized my family. Now I am an historical,
Biblical Christian and they reject me. Yet they are trying to make Biblical
Christians accept their redefinitions of what Christ gave 2,000 years ago.My point was that Joseph's little group has grown, so now they want to
be considered mainstream. It's your teachings and beliefs that detetmine this,
not how many flood victims you help. Mohammed had a small group at one time,
but its size doesn't determine its religious affiliation. Muslim's good deeds,
charitable giving, polygamy, angel-inspired holy book and revelations don't make
them Mormons, even if they insist it.The Bible has one God, no
heavenly mothers or wives; angels and demons were created by Christ, they are
not His siblings.
I've never understood why the LDS church uses a book that they consider
"corrupted." That would be like using a math book with half of the
@UPDaze:"Am I qualified to make a factual comment
here?"Perhaps you should read and study the Standard Works."Who first caused the rift?"Don't blame Smith for
being attacked by the so-called Christians of his day."Who
called every denomination an abomination?"Christ. (Maybe you
should read and study Church history as well)"Who said 'none of
your preachers have any priesthood authority,' to the existing 1830
churches?"Christ."Who said that we have
supposed that God has always existed, but I tell you that He is an exalted
man?"Brigham."Who said you, too, can become a
god?"Christ, in the NT."Who rewrote the entire
KJV..."England's King James I."...and you now
use his JST?"Very few Mormons use it."Who gave
a new and uniquely LDS definition of heaven..."Smith."...plural marriage..."Jacob, head of the 12 Tribes of
Israel."...the nature of God, Christ and the Holy
Ghost..."Smith, from what he saw with his own eyes."Word of Wisdom..."Smith, not by commandment."...baptism for dead..."It's in the Bible."...chance after death for eternal decision?"What?
@ Vanka"This is NOT the NT Jesus" Vanka, you
are aware the most Christians (including Mormons) believe the NT Jesus was the
OT Jehovah, right? The OT Jehovah destroyed the whole planet
because of wickedness. You are, unfortunately, probably somewhat
correct in saying that many members of the LDS church don't know much about
other religions. However, this is the case for most people of all religions. I
have talked to enough people of other religions in my life to know that this
isn't just an LDS thing.
DUP. And others. The question isn't whether Mormons are Christians or
cultists or otherwise. The question is whether that should have any bearing at
all on your vote for president.Let's stop all the religious
arguments from both sides. Faith of all kinds requires believing fantastic,
unprovable things. Who should lead this struggling country?
The sad thing is that the real threat is outside the circle of Christianity.
Just look at the Christian minister on trial in Iran. He will lose his life for
not denouncing his faith. Pastor Jeffers from Dallas made a grave mistake to use
the "C" word. While there is a lack faith coming from the White House,
many voters will take another look at the current republican front runner and
see the wisdom, knowledge and maturity and decide a change needs to be made at
1600 Penn. Ave. If Pastor Jeffers chooses to sit this election out and Pres.
Obama is reelected, the threat from outside will become more difficult to deal
The leading Baptist Rabbi in Dallas for Rick Perry is much like the Wrong
Reverend Wright was to Barak Obama..It is the kiss of death for his election
campaign. Latter Day Saints should feel complemented to be persecuted by such
high level "religious" people. It fulfills biblical prophecy for our
time. All he can do is fall off farther in the polls. Someone tell Gov. Parry
that Releiious persecdution is no longer in vogue with middle America.
TO: AMERICAN MAN everything you said is true. Let me rephrase my comments:The behavior of Protestants, like Dr. Jeffress, is very much like the
reaction the Catholic Church leaders towards Martin Luther during the
reformation. Martin Luther was labeled a heretic and treated to the harshest
criticisms. Much like Joseph Smith he was rumored, among other unsubstantiated
claims, to be mentally unbalanced. Martin Luther was said to have no authority
to teach his beliefs and was persecuted for his beliefs. With that
bit of background my comments may make more sense. It is history repeating
itself. While I am not LDS I do have a love of history. If the LDS
continue to practice an honest and sincere love of their gospel combined with
kindness for their neighbors and critic's, the path to tolerance, and then
acceptance, will happen just as it did for the Lutherans, and ultimately other
This isn't the election of 2008. These are (more serious) serious times. Yes,
there are some that will not vote for Romney just because he is a Mormon, but I
think that number is decreasing. When one gets pinched in the wallet, the
better Romney looks and his Mormonism isn't that big of an issue. Plus, I think
people are getting less stupid (prejudiced) on this stuff over time. Recent
history has taught us that people will consider people outside the typical White
Male box for President and the prejudice against Mormons will diminish over time
like it has for African-Americans, Latinos, and women.
vanka,sounds like you know everything. the more someone thinks they know
the less they truly know. good luck to your "temple" worthy wife.
Alfred you failed the test, according to my BYU prof, my uncle the bishop, the
Standard Works, The History of the Church, JS Teachings, Doctrines of Salvation
and Brigham's Journal of Discourses.Joseph started it all and his
name goes in each slot. He accused every denomination of not being true
Biblical believers, having no authority and he changed the very nature of God,
the entire Bible and the requirements for heaven, right? That is his own stated
claims in the BoM title page.Well-meaning or not, his claims angered
other Christians, just as every LDS here has expressed anger at Dr. Jeffress'
comments. This argument isn't over Mitt's great personal life, policies or
leadership qualifications. It was a blanket statement to Biblical Christians
for whom religious beliefs are an issue: Study Mormonism and see if you want
your president believing in heavenly mothers, celestial polygamy, evolving gods
and men who can become one. For many it won't be an issue. Citizens have a right to know and Jeffress has a right to express his
denomination's refutation of yours, just as you continue to teach your
congragation that no one else has the truth except you. Capish?
One more thing that I love about being a Democrat and a Mormon. We don't get
into dumb arguments like this.
@Alfred["Who called every denomination an abomination?"Christ. (Maybe you should read and study Church history as well)]Just a hunch but I think most non-LDS Christians (I know the LDS church is
christian but I needed a way to say "the other ones") find the idea of
Christ saying that more offensive than the idea of Joseph Smith saying that. @DUPdaze"Joseph started it all and his name goes in each
slot. He accused every denomination of not being true Biblical believers,
having no authority and he changed the very nature of God, the entire Bible and
the requirements for heaven, right? That is his own stated claims in the BoM
title page."No, the questions however are directed to the LDS
so the answers are not what you think they are, but rather the answers are what
the LDS church claims them to be, regardless of whether the LDS claims are
accurate or not.
Kirk R Graves. but we must be obedient to His commands to qualify for that
Grace. Wrong ,grace(charis )is a free gift.For it is by grace you have
been saved, through faithand this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of
Godnot by works, so that no one can boast. For we are Gods handiwork, created
in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God PREPARED in advance for us to do.
(Eph 2:8-9)A man is saved by faith alone but not by a faith that is
alone , genuine faith produces good deeds. Martin Luthers response to James
2:18. You believe that there is ONE God. Good! Even the demons believe
thatand shudder.(James 2:19). Even the demons believe in monotheism versus
polytheism(Mormonism)..Joseph Smith, Lectures on Faith, Q. What is
the Father? A. He is a personage of glory and of power. (5:2.). Blessed
art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but
my Father which is in heaven.(Mt 16:17)and God[is]spirit(pneuma), (John 4:24
What really angered "other Christians" was the fact that members of
their faiths became Latter Day Saints. That has especially angered
ministers.That was true in Joseph Smith's day and it is true today. After
a generation of losing membership to the Latter Day Saints during the 1960's and
70's, evangelical ministers went on the offense ....as a means of better defense
against those young men in the white shirts.They are offensive still.
Oh, no Romney is not a Christian! Mormons are not Christian! (Biting my fist
with a look of horror and dispair). So, the big boys don't want to play with us.
What are we ever going to do?Seriously, who gives anything about what some
dude somewhere says. I even don't know this pastor guy. He's a Perry man and
knows what buttons to push in order to make his flock vote for Perry. So the
whole thing is more disgusting than insulting. I pity fundamentalists. They are
narrow-minded and insecure.
@OnlytheCross. Oh, so the bible recommends the worship of the symbol of the
cross and the meddling of crazy pastors in politics? Okay. Please, spare us with
your weird conclusions and assumptions. It's great you believe the bible. But
are you so insecure that you have to tell everyone that yours is the best and
only true thing and? Geez, live and let live.
Sharrona: You are right it is a free gift. It is after all we can do for
ourselves that grace is given. No one on earth can be saved in the kingdom of
the father without the grace of Jesus Christ. This is a very valid teaching.
How do we show our Love for the Savior, only by keeping his commandments.
"And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my
Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink;
I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and
ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came to me. The shall the righteous
answer to him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee and hungred, and fed thee? or
thirsty, and gave thee drink" When saw we thee a stranger, and thee in? or
naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick,
or in prision, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them,
verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of
these my brethern, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on
the left hand. Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for
the devil and his angels." "Therefor ye are justified of faith and
works through grace, to the end the promiste might be sure to all the seed; not
to them only who are of the law, but to them also who are of the faith of
Abraham; who is the father of us all." "What doth it profit, my
brethern, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save
him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of
you say unto them Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled, notwithstanding ye
give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit.
Even so faith, if it hath not work, is dead, being alone."
Until we act upon that faith and obey the commandments we shall be as the goats
and cast ont he left hand of God. By Sharrona's definition all we have to do is
have faith and by the grace of Jesus Christ we shall be saved. This is false
teachings. This is what the evangelicals teach. This is not the teachings of
Christ. Again the major differences between mainstream Christians and The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is theological. Until a person come
before the Father with a broken heart, a contrite spirit and real intent, their
prayers are subject to not being answered in the manner they want it answered.
Just as the joke sort of says when did thou answer my prayers, and the Father
answers I sent the truck, the boat and the helicopter and ye refused them all
the same will be said of us, I sent you the missionaries, I gave you the Book of
Mormon, his servants visited you and you still failed to listen.
We are not a cult like these so called Baptist think we are. We believe in
Jesus Christ and if we didn't, there wouldn't be is name in our name. So you
Southern Baptist or even Baptist think that we are a cult will have to answer to
the Lord when it comes time for you to face the Lord for your actions. It
doesn't matter what religion you belong to we are all Americans so Love One
Another As Jesus Loves You.
sharrona | 11:35 p.m. Oct. 8, 2011 No, not wrong, just a different
interpretation. Once again you qoute scripture at me thinking it will destroy
my faith, but it doesn't. I have no problem with the verses you quoted because
they do not contradict my faith, they only uphold it. The difference is that I
have a different view of what those verses mean than you and your pastor. If
you understood LDS doctrine, you would know that.
I get together with some of my atheist friends once in a while. (I have never
been to an atheist convention or conference. I am not a "member" of
any atheist club or group or organization. I don't even know of any.) When we
discuss politics, I have never had anyone say "Your brand of atheism is the
wrong brand! You are not a 'true' atheist, and that makes you a 'cult' and
unworthy of civil rights protections!"Nobody has ever tried to
argue that my unique brand of atheism implies certain unacceptable political
views: like my lack of belief in any god means I would be too soft on terrorism,
or insensitive to the plight of the poor and elderly. In fact, we atheists would
have a hard time stirring up any kind of sectarian argument over the
"articles of faith" of atheism even if we wanted to. There are none.
Nothing to argue about.But leave it to the believers to turn on one
another and battle over who is the 'true' believer, and disqualify one another
for political legitimacy because of subtle differences in the fictional stories
in which you believe.Time for an atheist POTUS?
This whole Perry & Jeffers pony show reminds me of tag-team wrestling. The
whole thing is scripted and they try to put on a good show but no one is really
buying it. The crowd watches and gets a few laughs but that is it. They do one
thing in public but then give each other the high 5's back in the locker room on
their excellent execution. The American voter is smarter than all this rhetoric
and will express that in the voting booth. There won't be too many high 5's
@jimhale"After a generation of losing membership to the Latter Day
Saints during the 1960's and 70's, evangelical ministers went on the offense
....as a means of better defense against those young men in the white
shirts."In the US evangelicalism has been growing faster than
the LDS church the past decade. %change in past 18 years in ARIS survey
for USEvangelical/Born-Again +294.7%Pentecostal/Charismatic
Rev. Jeffress would have been okay if he had said: I'm an evangelical Christian
and Perry is an evangelical Christian and evangelical Christians, all things
being equal, should support evangelical Christians - and, oh by the way, in this
race I don't think all other things are equal.That would be like me
saying: I'm a Latter Day Saint and Romney is a Latter Day Saint and Latter Day
Saints, all things being equal, ought to support Latter Day Saints -- and, oh by
the way, in this race I don't think all other things are equal.Four
years ago, I didn't think all other things were equal and so did not support
Romney. Now, things are not equal in reverse: Romney is clearly the best
available choice.On Sunday, Jeffress said he'd prefer a
Non-Christian like Romney over Barack Obama.I'd prefer a non-Mormon
like Perry over Barack Obama, too. The language difference here is
not that great. Of course, had Jeffress said the above instead of
what he did say, he would have made no news....and would not hope to sell as
many copies of his book on this subject when it comes out in January.
It was not Joseph Smith who "changed the whole meaning of God"
mentioned above.It was Constantine, then not yet himself a Christian
by anyone's definition, who changed the tenets of "historical
Christianity" by insisting that over half the bishops of the church were
wrong in believing that Christ and his Father were two distinct beings.Constantine wanted one standard definition of God (and therefore of
Christians) for his own political purpose of unity in his empire.Jeffress on Sunday criticized the Mormon Church for being founded 1800 years
after Christ.Laying the late century origin of the Southern Baptists
to the side, Jeffress's version of "historical Christianity" began
with Constantine - a non-Christian... three centuries after Christ.But what's 1500 years among friends.
Who cares whether or not mormonism is considered a cult, or for the matter the
spawn of the devil.I am more concerned with this radical group
trying to invalidate something else and that is the first amendment: Freedom of
religion.I am also concerned with these people trying to make the
issue about the establishment cause of the Constitution. If a mormon isn't good
enough to become president of the U.S.; it appears to me that they are than
saying that only a Baptist, or a Luthern, or Anglican is good enough for pres,
but not a mormon. The U.S. is a republic not a theocracy.
Christ Commanded Love the Lord Your God then Love your neighbor as I have
loved you, That requires you have a love of Christ and his virtues. Love your
neighbor. He didn't say if they are main stream Christian, he said Love your
Neighbor. That means all of mankind, even those you disagree with. Speak
Peace. Be still and know God is there. Preach the Gospel to everyone you meet.
Be BOLD and open your mouth, God will fill in the words. "Mormons"
have a great deal to offer the world, especially the state it is in today, I
find it hard to believe that we have to fight other "Christians" to
offer it. Don't contend with these people offer them the truth and a chance to
accept it, it is their responsibility from that point on. Thanks