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Vai's View: Pac-12 membership comes with consequences for Mormons

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  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    Sept. 30, 2011 12:46 p.m.

    "But the Pac-12 doesn't care about General Conference. Neither does it care about playing [on] Sunday[s]."

    -------------

    That's also true for 60% to 80% of Americans:

    Christianity Today notes that for years, Gallup pollsters have reported that 40 percent of Americans -- roughly 118 million people -- attend a church every Sunday.

    But a new study done by an Episcopal Church researcher, Kirk Hadaway, and Penny Marler of Samford University concludes the actual number is much less than that. They did a "count-based" estimate of church attendance -- in other words, actual attendance figures -- and concluded that only about 20 percent of Americans go to a church on Sunday

  • CKS007 Clearfield, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 12:46 p.m.

    IMHO this article title is misleading. It makes it sound like the PAC-12 has it out for the LDS faith. I seriously doubt that is an intention. But outside of Utah the world continues to turn. I'm sure that most people who live in Utah already realize that and have no problems. This is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

  • morganh Orem, Utah
    Sept. 30, 2011 12:52 p.m.

    Vai, You hit the nail on the head. I was very impressed with the WCC willingness to schedule around BYU. It is great to have a university like BYU where you can get a great education and also learn more about who you really are. I love it when Bronco says that his goal is to make his football team great on the field and better men when they are not playing football.

  • Juggy SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 12:55 p.m.

    The LDS population percentage has been decreasing in SLC for years. The University of Utah students, faculty, and fanbase are all increasing in diversity as well.

    As a state based school it about time that things get more secular for the University of Utah. The diversity and free thinking that embodies the PAC is probably the best thing about it (besides the TV deal)and we all know this state and the University could use a little more of both.

  • RS Holladay, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 12:57 p.m.

    To Uteology. Vai's point is that the local fan base becomes limited to some degree when up against church conflicts, not that the rest of the county is thus or so. If attendance at the game Saturday is 100%, then your point is right on. If not, Vai's article would warrant some more attention.

  • aljmac Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 12:59 p.m.

    As a Ute fan, and being LDS, I'm not thrilled that the game is at the same time as the conference session.

    I have a DVR for the game, and I know that the priesthood session will probably be posted online as soon as it's over (and in my mailbox the next month). So I know I have options for both events when it comes to missing either one live. But for me, it's a matter of principle. Seeing the session live with my dad and catching the game after is one way I personally will try to keep my priorities straight. That's just me. I don't begrudge other LDS Utes who will catch the game and check out the session later in some other media.

    So, I'm sure I'll mumble, grumble, and murmur a little as I get into a dress shirt and slacks late Saturday afternoon, but I'll spend that time with my dad, hearing stuff I know I need to hear.

    As for LDS athletes passing on the U because of this? A tempest in a tea kettle. A conference game and a Sunday game are TOTALLY different. I'm not worries about it.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 1:47 p.m.

    Somehow I knew that the Utes game would cement in the minds of the most hardcore BYU fan that that Ute nation is full of heathen apostates.

    Then, I've always said there is little difference demographically between the students, fan base, athletes, & staff at the 2 institutions. Psychologically, they are galaxies apart.

  • Silent Observer SLC, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 1:48 p.m.

    Apparently Mr. Sikahema isn't paying attention. LDS faithful do have a well-publicized option. The Institute is broadcasting the complete Saturday night session after the game.

    But this isn't about general conference, or campus priorities, is it? It's just another variation of sour grapes from a BYU fan over Utah's PAC 12 membership.

  • peacemaker Provo, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 1:54 p.m.

    Great job Vai!! No need to worry. It will be no problem for the bretheren to record the game and attend the evening Priesthood session.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Sept. 30, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    Coming from a BYU fan, Utah is handling this as well as they can. While half the school may be LDS, the school is still a state run institution. This state run institution is also joining a stable, AQ conference and receiving a ten fold financial boost for doing so. This is really not debatable.

    Now, there will probably be a few LDS athletes that state Utah playing on Sunday as a reason to go to BYU. On the flipside, I'm sure there will be a Chase Hansen or two who state Pac 12 affiliation as a reason to go to Utah. This just seems like Noise.

    Now, @CKS, you're probably correct in stating that the Pac doesn't have it out for the LDS faith. I would say 8-10 of the twelve institution's Presidents do not however, don't kid yourself, no one in California was pleased with the church making it's prescence felt during Prop 8. Furthermore, if Utah were a church run school I guarantee you they would not have been invited to join the Pac.

    That being said, good luck. Hope you make the most of the opportunity.

  • andrewute1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    Hey Vai I love your double standard. Maybe I am mistaken but did you not play football on Sunday's in the NFL? I honestly really love how you are bashing about Utah playing during priesthood conference, when I know for a FACT that is has happened with byu.

    My cousin played baseball for Utah, and they played AT byu in 2001 during spring general conference during the priesthood session. Yes byu baseball had a home game right during conference and the game started at 7 pm. As soon as priesthood conference was over at 8 pm at the Marriot Center, a bunch of people came over and finished watching the game. If you are going to bash Utah for this game, then maybe you should go check your own alma mater and make sure they have never done this same thing in the past.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    Honestly, I don't see this being as big an issue as it would have been say 30 years ago. Conference is now broadcast around the world and they can just watch it when they have free time since it's posted online a day or two after.

  • Aspen1713 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    I imagine potential LDS recruits will look at the situation pragmatically - just as LDS players looking at the NFL/NBA draft do. Conference can be DVR'd, church sessions are scheduled throughout the day. BYU has some big donor names, too - pretty sure Steve Young played on Sundays a time or two.

    If a kid wants to be a champion athlete, then he or she will look at the best athletics program for their situation. Maybe that will be the U, maybe it won't. I'm not sure the fact that the U played on Conference weekend will be much of a factor.

  • Slambo SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:00 p.m.

    Vai, didn't you play a few Sunday games?

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:01 p.m.

    @RS

    Isn't Kyle Whittingham and most of Utah's coaching staff and players LDS?

    Didn't Vai himself play on Sundays in the NFL?

    So bashing Chris Hill about "Sunday" play is meaningless coming from Vai.

    Some LDS will attend the sold-out Ute game and some LDS won't, to each its own. Just like some will play/work on Sunday and some won't.

  • NewsJunkie Centerville, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:01 p.m.

    @aljmac
    I like your approach to watching both. However, one has to agree that it would be better for LDS fans and smarter from a marketing perspective to avoid scheduling games when your audience might have a conflict with attending.

    Thus, knowing this Mr. Hill might want to bring up that issue with the PAC12 before the next schedule is being planned out. It makes no sense to push an uncomfortable game schedule on a community. This isnt about proving someone right or wrong but about making it easier for players and fans to enjoy a sports event.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:03 p.m.

    @Silent Observer

    It's not so much the sour grapes but more so the religious discrimination that has most BYU fans upset.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:04 p.m.

    I am disappointed that they would schedule a home game during conference. It seems thoughtless, I guess. I am a little surprised and pleased that the conference session will be rebroadcast at the University of Utah Institute after the game. That seems quite thoughtful to me.

    Go Utes! I am a Utah Man Sir (But I am a disciple first)!

  • utesovertide Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:07 p.m.

    I like Vai, but personally I think he overstepped his bounds on this one. Has he spoken to Chris Hill directly? If not, he should not sit there and call him out like that.

    Second, I wanted to attend Priesthood session live, but what was I going to do with that season ticket I purchased months ago, before the game time was even known? I had a great idea. I would watch Priesthood session on delay, and go to the game with a date.

    Think about it. Thousands of young single adult men will be sitting in a meeting hearing how they should be going on dates. I'll be on one.

  • SpanishImmersed Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:13 p.m.

    Sure to be the most tweeted and texted score update during priesthood session. Its good to know the Institute will rebroadcast the session after the game.

    Then, there's the fact that dozens of mission reunions that are always scheduled during the conference friday BYU game...

  • utahmansir Herriman, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:16 p.m.

    WOW!! Thank goodness Ute fans have "half a brain" to put this nonsense article aside. Technology is a great thing Vai thats what DVR's, reb roadcasts, etc are for. You can whYne after the yners lose to the aggies.

  • 9er4life Provo, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:22 p.m.

    I'm not LDS and a great majority of the PAC-12 fanbase don't care if it's a conference weekend. If you can't watch the game than don't. BTW the game is a sellout so I'm pretty certain a great majority of the LDS faith are at the game, conference weekend or not.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:22 p.m.

    @silent observer

    Poor picked on utah "fans".

    Frankly I couldn't care less what you or any other ute "fan" does. But there are plenty of Utah Fans that are going to be conflicted by this, I would guess there are quite a few of the players that are also unhappy about it. Vai has always been pretty clear he is a big fan of utah, its coaches, and its players but he has also been very clear he is personally man of God and that is his first priority. You obviously don't respect that and that is pretty telling of the type of individual you are, but why would you be offended that someone like Vai actually shows concern for the fans and players at the university of utah, you realize that is what he is doing don't you? He is truly concerned for them.

    For all you real Utah Fans out there, I've told you many times you have a large segment of your base that is simply bigoted, classless, haters. Here is more evidence and you'll almost surely see some more before this blog runs its course.

  • drewgundy SLC, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    Utah may not have all of their season ticket holders in the stands for the game because they're at conference, but they're not going to lose players over it. Sunday play is another story. As it is with professional athletes, each individual has to make their own personal decision. There have been athletes taken in a professional draft that have decided they don't want to play on Sundays, so they don't go. Others, such as Steve Young and Vai himself, felt that it was okay to play. It is a personal decision.

    The biggest difference is that there is an option in college. They can guarantee that they don't have to make a personal decision by going to BYU. This isn't going to affect football, which is everyone's favorite anyway. So, everyone can take chill out. Basketball will only be affected in tournament play. The biggest difference is going to be with the olympic sports. Most Ute fans don't care much about the olympic sports anyway, so it doesn't matter.

  • UUso FARMINGTON, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:29 p.m.

    Vai:

    Your opinion is your opinion, but it's reaching so far off-base that I'm almost embarrassed for you that it's been printed.

    Here's an idea: Give us your opinion on playing professional sports on Sunday as a Mormon. I've never heard the prophets say "keep the Priesthood Session time slot holy," but I've heard them say other things.

    I guess guys who don't want to end up playing football on Sundays might as well not waste their time in a program that might have to play a game once a year during Priesthood Session. Of course the solution to that dilemma is simple: play football at BYU. That way you'll most likely avoid ever playing pro football on Sundays and you'll never have to miss Priesthood Session.

  • aljmac Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:32 p.m.

    @NewsJunkie:

    I actually totally agree with you. I'm a little miffed that the two schedules have turned out they way they have. But there's nothing I can do about it as far as Saturday is concerned. To your point, I hope the U feels like they can do a little more to avoid this in the future.

    Thanks to modern technology, LDS Ute fans can catch BOTH the game AND the conference broadcast. I think the order in which they're viewed matters little.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:35 p.m.

    Maybe since Vai did play on Sunday he recognizes what it can do to a young man who is in that situation. The point is, we can all have more of a voice about scheduling things that conflict with our church services and Sundays. I took from this that I need to be more vocal.

    I have found others out there that feel the same way that are just looking for someone to voice an opinion.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:37 p.m.

    Vai,
    For the first time, I think that your article defies logic, and you are mistaken.

    I believe that the UofU is making a business decision, just like when they decided to jump to the PAC-10. It is all about the money. If the Utes have a good attendance for the game, and they make a profit (instead of listen to a prophet) they will continue to play these games in competition to other interests. The Utes as a State school has to make decisions for the best of that institution's interests. Unlike BYU there is no other "higher" interests.

    I don't have issues of players "working" on Sunday, because of the job's requirement or others that are required to work due to public safety. But what is the real difference between playing in Utah or somewhere else (Philly)? The players in the NFL, PAC-12, and NBA, and are still required to work on Sundays. Their need for the job and a higher salary over-rides the desire for Sunday worship.

    What is the difference and why does it matter if LDS watch the game at home, in the Utes' stadium or fly to LA?

  • wtfhinutah SOUTH SALT LAKE, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:38 p.m.

    Wow! I've always looked forward to Vai's Views but his point is totally lost on me here. This seems a little bit divisive and out of character for him.

    Just because Dr Chris Hill has or has not made whatever decision regarding 'U' athletics, in Larry Miller'esq fashion or not, does not make Dr Hill or the 'U' heathens. Vai's summation that the 'Y' will be able to take advantage of this in the future only drives home my thoughts that he is trying to be divisive here. Very sour grape'ish!

    Don't forget Vai, the 'U' has a fantastic 'Institute Of Religion' and they espouse the same values you do. Also never forget, the 'U' has many more alumni who have gone on to be modern day Prophets in your/our church than the 'Y' will probably ever have. Currently 0(zero) for the 'Y' if I'm correct. Maybe the 'U' can take advantage of that when recruiting.

    Never-the-less, I'll chock this up to a bad week and a bad decision by Vai to go ahead with this weeks article and continue to look forward to his weekly.

  • UUso FARMINGTON, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:39 p.m.

    On a side note Vai...one glaring inaccuracy in your ramblings:

    "Globally," chapels around the world will NOT be full of men and boys listening to Priesthood session. There are these things called "time zones" which will prevent a lot of LDS "globally" from seeing Conference live - especially Priesthood Session. So [this may be news to you] those folks will have to end up watching it on delay and/or accessing the content on the internet after the Church posts it - novel concept I know.

    What is your opinion on time zones? Do you think time zones are brain dead because they don't consider the feelings of their LDS constituents?

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:49 p.m.

    I like Vai a great deal but this article and his reasoning is a bit odd. Why does Vai call out the U, the PAC 12 and Chris Hill and not all the stores, businesses and restaurants that employ adult men and young men every Saturday night that includes those in October and April that conflict with LDS Priesthood meeting? In today's world a great deal of people have to work on Saturdays and Saturday night. Many would like to attend church meetings but are required to be on the job even on Sunday. Vai knows that first hand. He had to work on Sunday in the NFL. Yes, I would hope that in the future games can be scheduled away from LDS conference weekend and I suspect there is a good chance that will happen.

  • meet me in the MUSS Sandy, Utah
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:53 p.m.

    Vai, funny you should bring up Larry Miller. I used to work for megaplex theatres, owned by the Millers of course, and he had no problem putting his employees to work all day on Sundays. Seeing as we had a large staff, and many LDS employees, there were plenty of LDS members working each Sunday. Point being, LHM didn't want Jazz games on Sundays because it meant less money. Vai, don't act like the Pac-12 is bashing the LDS church by agreeing to play on Sundays and during conference. Like many posters have said already, people can choose to go to the games or not, it's that simple. Just because BYU can't find a conference to agree to their generally unorthodox terms doesn't mean you need to write an article warning Utah to conform to the church or else. Plenty of LDS athletes have played for the U, and will continue to do so, because they love winning and maybe want to go to the league. That is why you played right Vai?

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:53 p.m.

    Vai, did you ever miss a live session of conference to play in a game? Have you ever missed a live session of conference to go to work? Did you consider changing jobs in order to avoid missing live sessions of conference?

    That all said, I have given my tickets away for tomorrow's game and will be attending priesthood session with my dad and brothers and all of our sons who also have given away tickets to the game.

    However, we will be watching the game via DVR - so if you are sitting by us during conference -- Don't give us updates on the game!

  • cedarpost Washington, Utah
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:56 p.m.

    i highly doubt the lds institute is broadcasting the evening session after the game.

  • Utesby3 Sandy, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:57 p.m.

    Vai - How many Sunday games did you skip while playing in the NFL? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

  • Dexter Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:57 p.m.

    Is this meant as some sort of sick joke? Does this Vai person really think that [once again] BYU has the inside track for playing on a Friday instead of a Saturday?

    I remember reading "judge not" was part of a TRUE Christian's belief system. Apparently it only applies if the judging goes against LDS beliefs.

  • GAmom Athens, GA
    Sept. 30, 2011 2:59 p.m.

    It seems that most of the article was about playing on Sunday's--I've never seen a college football game played on Sunday. And I have to agree with one of the other posters that many people DVR sessions and watch them later or can read the talks hours later on the internet. Is there really any reason to have to watch it the minute it is happening in today's world with so many options? Honestly, I am DVRing and going to the Georgia/Ole Miss game--Go DAWGS!

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:00 p.m.

    Working on Sunday is different than choosing to play for fun or as an amateur on Sunday. Of course no one has to play in the NFL or the NBA just like no one has to be a doctor in an emergency room or in labor and delivery. There is always a choice but choosing to play college ball, AAU, etc. is a choice that is far different than a profession.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:01 p.m.

    I agree. BYU should stay independent and not join the BIG 12

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:06 p.m.

    I am certain that Vai may have played football and probably missed a few priesthood sessions and conference while the Prophet was talking. I wonder why Vai even wrote this article. Losing fans and respect quickly. Come off your high horse. Those attending the game will be allowed to read these articles very shortly and some places are replaying conference so we can watch it again.

    I am certain that Dr. Hill will be asking for Sunday concessions especially knowing the lost dollars by not having the attendance or viewership in Salt Lake City. I am quite certain there will be very few Sunday games for Utah in
    SLC and no major sports to speak of.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    Cedarpost,

    Go to the KSL web page. All the information is there regarding the rebroadcast at the LDS Institute after the game is played.

  • UUso FARMINGTON, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    @ cedarpost:

    Why doubt?

    They are. Helps to know what you're talking about before you just 'doubt it.'

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:09 p.m.

    What I want to know is why the byU vs Utah game was at the same time as our stake conference adult session? It was tempting but I did attend thanks to DVR.

    As most of the posters above, to all their own. With DVR, everything is possible.

    Moreover, the kids and coaches new what they were getting into when they signed on the bottom line. As did Vai when he played on Sunday.

    Nice to see ducky out waddleing again:)

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    Did you play the bass drum in a band? Your constant beating of the drum about a segment of the U fan base that is classless and hateful is getting very old. Does it ever occur to you that there is a segment of the BYU fan base that acts exactly the same way?

  • Itchy Lehi, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:21 p.m.

    I honestly don't see what the big deal is to either: a. DVR the game and watch the priesthood session live or b. watch the game live and read/watch the priesthood session later. Personally, I'm putting the priesthood session first, although I have to admit that if I had tickets to attend the game then I would be in RES.

  • elvisroidutexas Fort Worth, TX
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:22 p.m.

    Seems like Vai (like some Ute commenters here) was lamenting more than anything else. We all know that Dr. Hill et al had no choice in the matter. There is something to be said about the communal experience of attending the Priesthood session live, but maybe Monson (Ute alum) will end it early.

  • SoCalUtahFan Uteville, CA
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    My religion is not LDS.
    I don't like BYU sport teams.
    But I am very respectful of LDS as well as I am respectful of Christianity, Hidu, Islam, Buddhism and others --since my philosophy is that religion should
    not be mixed in with sports.

    I think Vai is out of bound here and he raises his opinions knowing that he may have support of a majority of people in the state of Utah.

    If the Utes needs to be respectful of LDS while scheduling games, then I would like to ask the Utes to be respectful of other religions as well--to be equally respectful...

    For example, I'd like to ask the Utes then not to schedule games on the first day of the moon and the full moon days.

    Keep in mind that University of Utah is not a school owned by a religion.
    BYU is different.
    University of Utah is supported by tax payers of Utah and while it's true the majority of population is LSD, but if it has to follow certain LDS rules, then it should follow all regilions' rules.

  • Herby Hurricane, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    What about NFL players who play on Sunday Vai? Did it ever cross your mind to avoid entering in the NFL to avoid playing on Sundays??? Its like the pot calling the kettle black.

  • GoGetter Sandy, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:24 p.m.

    Both games can be viewed later. Just let the LDS Ute fans watch what they want, according to their priorities and let them watch the other after of the following day.

    This does not have to be a moment where BYU fans quickly chastise. This is not a mountain, it's a mole hill. Let people do what they want. Why is there an article about this?

    The problem with D News is that most sports stuff is opinion, which is weird in itself.

  • carabaoU Moab, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:25 p.m.

    Interesting...

    I remember one year in which BYU played at San Diego State on Saturday night. The game time was at 7pm Pacific time and of course it was at the conclusion of Priesthood session, and church satellite was also broadcasting the game right after priesthood session so all members could watch for free. Well, it just so happens BYU football players and coaches could not watch Priesthood session that night as they were prepping for the game.

    I wonder how many other times BYU football played on the road during Conference Saturday. Shouldn't you first check history to find out before saying BYU ALWAYS plays on Friday night?

    I have heard for others that Coach Whitt has told Dr. Chris Hill that he would prefer playing on the road during Conference weekend if a BYE is not possible first.

    As another poster mentioned, GLOBALLY LDS members do not watch Conference at same time as Utahns sitting at home in their pjs. Most watch Conference a week later on Saturday and Sunday.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:26 p.m.

    Dear Vai,

    Why did your relative choose a school where he would not be able to travel to a LDS stake center to watch LDS general conference priesthood session? Washington could have been playing in Palo Alto, Eugene, Pullman, Tuscon, LA or any other place in the PAC. Why did he choose a school that would possibly force him to play on this particular *Saturday* night every year? He (and you) have no one to blame but yourselves.

    You seem to be advocating that LDS kids should only play for BYU & Utah State. Which of course is blantantly hypocritical, considering your long career in the NFL.

    Forget about using Vai, Austin Collie, Steve Young, Detmer, Gifford Nielson, Rob Morris, Hans Olsen, and ALL the other BYU players who went on the NFL as honest role models for LDS youth. They're all (evidently) hypocrites.

    The only ex-BYU player who can claim adherence to LDS doctrine is Eli Herring, who elected to not pursue an NFL career because it involved playing on Sundays.

  • Utesby3 Sandy, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:27 p.m.

    @Duckhunter: You're right, there are some Utah fans that are bigoted, classless, haters. But you could say the same of every school, including good old BYU. I know you like to think of yourself as better than the rest, but by calling out Utah fans as bigoted classless haters, are you not exhibiting those same attributes?

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:28 p.m.

    It wasn't all that long ago the byu would play football on conference Saturday.
    Stop being so self righteous, it's that attitude that makes people have ill feelings towards byu fans.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:29 p.m.

    I remember going to priesthood meeting and hearing Elder Worthlin talk a lot about his days playing football for the University of Utah.

  • Mid-Major Cougars San Diego, CA
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:34 p.m.

    Vai is just jealous of Utah being in Pac-12.

    Vai is just jealous that Utah has left BYU way behind in football.

    How did you enjoy that 54-10 shellacking/debacle loss, Vai?

  • Old Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:41 p.m.

    Vai,

    You are right on the money.

    The pioneers walked across the plains to follow a Prophet. Countless sacrifices have been made to put God first.

    I'm with you....Big Time.

    Everyone can rationalize their own decision to miss Conference, but I will be there with my dad, brothers, and son.

    It's ok to call a spade a spade about the lack of effort by Chris Hill to set a standard of respect for Sunday play. Larry Miller paved the way for Chris Hill to follow but he decided to take the low road and not rock the boat.

    The gulf is only getting wider between the people who want to justify their actions and disregard completely the things of God, and those willing to Stand in the right place at the right time.

    Just like the Tsunami that hit the beach on a Sunday Morning, when you are in the wrong place at the wrong time there just isn't a lot you can do about it.

    If you are still sitting the fence on this one then let me encourage you to do the right thing and attend Conference.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:44 p.m.

    When was the last time BYU lived right enough off the field to make a BCS game, maybe we should ask Collie this one.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:44 p.m.

    I hope the Big12 is reading this article.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:48 p.m.

    There's a path for Vai to repentance here, even though he voluntarily sought out employment in a profession that only plays on the Sabbath:

    Lobby the Utah State Legislature to force TV stations to shut down on Sunday, much like they outlawed car dealers from being open on Sundays.

    The TV station that has the means of setting the example in Utah is KSL, which is owned by the LDS Church. How many LDS youth in Utah would benefit from more scripture study if the NFL was unavailable to watch live?

    Come on, Vai - put your money where your mouth is.

  • Mount Olympus Salt Lake, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:50 p.m.

    Vai,
    I'm pretty sure your nephew appreciates your public acknowledgement that he is a big sinner.

  • Mount Olympus Salt Lake, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 3:51 p.m.

    Vai,

    Your nephew is coming to play in Utah and you are not going?
    I thought the church stressed the importance of family.

  • Bitterman west jordan, ut
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:00 p.m.

    First, there is a large difference between earning a living (ie nfl, nba, etc) and participating in amatuer events. But the point remains the same. Mormon ute fans ought to feel more than a little guilty that they got in because they would bend their standards when byu would not. At the least they should stop proclaiming that the affiliation with such bigots is a qualifier for greatness. The utes sold out (for cash money) to a group that is as open as they can be about despising mormon beliefs. Beliefs shared by better than half of ute fans. That ought to be a huge bite for thought.
    I am still waiting for kyle or one of the many other mormon utes to call out the anti mormon byu haters. Do they not care that many of their supposed fans are openly mocking their religion?

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:03 p.m.

    I don't disagree with Vai on any of the points he makes. I would just remind him that he is where he is, money/influence/fame-wise because he chose to play on Sundays following his college career.

  • dutgut Saint George, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:04 p.m.

    Forget the whole religious issue, what about making considerations for traffic congestion of 60,000 people trying to get to two events just a few miles apart?

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:17 p.m.

    WOW. Touched a nerve with this one, Vai!

    I didn't understand Vai to be condemning ANYONE for playing on Sunday. As I understand it, he was making a point that Dr Hill is forcing half of his fan base to have to choose between the church leaders' (whom they hold to be prophets and apostles) counsel and a football game -- a choice that could be avoided wtih careful scheduling. Yeah, it was was a business decision for Larry Miller, but I know a LOT of Jazz fans were glad to not have to make the choice. And rather than condemn, he was pointing out that there may be some recruits who don't share Dr. Hill's (and the 45K fans' at RES tomorrow night) priorities, and thus might consider BYU to be a better fit.

  • the zamboni Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:19 p.m.

    This article focuses on the sport of FOOTBALL, and refuses to acknowledge that there is virtually no chance of Utah ever having a home football game on Sunday.

    If a kid is nervous about playing for a program that MIGHT have a game conflicting with priesthood session, he definitely belongs at BYU. Missing 4 live priesthood sessions over a college football career is going to have little effect on a student's spirituality. Condemning a person for missing a session of conference is just plain silly.

  • Wallbanger Spanish Fork, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:20 p.m.

    For active LDS like myself, you can watch the Priesthood session on LDS.org. Weather you watch it live or after the game, it is not a big deal. As long as you eventually watch it and get the messages in the talks. Some people need to get over themselves. Go Utes!

  • utahmansir Herriman, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:25 p.m.

    @ Bitterman.

    Sounds like youre a little "Bitter"?? Theres a reason Kyle chose Utah over BYU and you are one of them

  • jazzfan14 Sandy, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:26 p.m.

    Old Jake - Get off you high horse. The priesthood session will be available to me a few days later. As for yourself, please pay particular attention in conference for any talks given on the subjects of pride or judging others.

  • papi4481 Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:26 p.m.

    Vai, this article is absolutely, positively RIDICULOUS! BYU has played on Saturday night during priesthood session in the past. Not at home, but away. President Hinckley even made mention of it on at least one occasion. Do you think BYU fans all went to priesthood session and didn't watch the game? Come on now! Give me a break! They are rebroadcasting priesthood session for U students going to the game immediately following it. You make it sound like by the U going to the PAC 12 they don't care about the LDS students or fans anymore. You're articles have been ignorant in the past, but this one takes the cake. P.S. I am a member of the LDS Church that will be attending the game, and going to the rebroadcast of priesthood session afterwards. Get a clue dude!

  • ClassyUte SOUTH JORDAN, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:27 p.m.

    I'm not LDS, but i am christian and attend the University of Utah. While I respect the LDS church, the world does not revolve around its teachings, and seeing how Dr. Chris Hill is the AD at a state-run institution and not a faith-based institution, he should not, at all be judged for siding with the Pac-12 on this dispute. The U shows a lot of respect and support for the church already, and I really don't think scheduling a few games a year tops will scare away potential recruits and boosters.

  • Mount Olympus Salt Lake, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:28 p.m.

    Re: I am still waiting for kyle or one of the many other mormon utes to call out the anti mormon byu haters. Do they not care that many of their supposed fans are openly mocking their religion?

    Kyle coaches the game. He doesn't say stuff to the media that isn't about football.

    Bronco is the one who came out 2 weeks ago and called BYU fans "Sadducees and Pharisees".

  • comeonman PAYSON, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:29 p.m.

    from a BYU fan and member i believe Chris Hill has his student athletes best interest in mind when making decisions. if a priesthood member decides to attend the game and watch the priesthood session later there is nothing wrong with it, we as members shouldnt make them feel as if they are less righteous but be happy with the fact that they are watching the priesthood session. if a student athlete decides to attend Utah knowing they they may play on sunday or during church meetings that is their choice. my advice to you Vai is keep football and religion separate not every school is BYU.

  • defibman Syracuse, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:30 p.m.

    So Vai, you really hit a nerve with a lot of u fans. Could it be a little bit of guilt? Making a little bit of "justification"? Usually when someone hurries and makes excuses, it means that they feel guilty about something. As a famous bug once said, "And always let your conscience be your guide".

  • AZ Dave Chandler, AZ
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:34 p.m.

    Last time I checked, we have agency. Vai, you had agency to choose to play on Sunday. I have agency to either go to a football game or church. Drop the holy than thou attitude and explain your decision to play on Sunday before you criticize someone else

  • Mount Olympus Salt Lake, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:34 p.m.

    Vai,

    Why not condemn BYU football for having their coaches show on Sundays?

  • DRay Roy, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:45 p.m.

    Honoring the "Sabbath Day" is in the 10 Commandments of the Old Testament, so all Christian faiths should honor it...it is a key commitment of true believers, no excuses. You just don't have any such commitment at Utah or any state run school. Go Cougars.

  • Utesby3 Sandy, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:51 p.m.

    @ Bitterman: I don't condone the anti-mormon comments made by some utah fans nor do I condone the anti-non-mormon comments from people such as yourself. I do wish people would leave religion out of sports, which is my main reason for disliking BYU. I think it is a fine school and has a fine sports program but unfortunately it has BYU fans. I simply cannot bupport BYU sports because of these types of comments I've heard from BYU fans throughout my life. And this is coming from a Utah mormon. How about that as a "huge bite for thought".

  • Red Headed Stranger Billy Bobs, TX
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:51 p.m.

    wtfhinutah | 2:38 p.m. Sept. 30, 2011

    Also never forget, the 'U' has many more alumni who have gone on to be modern day Prophets in your/our church than the 'Y' will probably ever have. Currently 0(zero) for the 'Y' if I'm correct.

    You aren't correct. Both Ezra Taft Benson and Thomas S. Monson graduated from BYU. You see, President Monson first went to the U for his Bachelor's, but then realized his mistake and went to BYU for his MBA. As for the future, even though over a third of the current Quorum of the Twelve are BYU alumni, I think it is unseemly to speculate on possible future LDS Presidents.

    Wally West | 1:47 p.m. Sept. 30, 2011

    I've always said there is little difference demographically between the students, fan base, athletes, & staff at the 2 institutions. Psychologically, they are galaxies apart.

    What do students at BYU and UU have in common? They both applied to both schools.
    How are BYU and UU students different? The BYU students were accepted at both schools.

    Oh, and about 30 SAT percentile points. (If you don't believe me, look it up)

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:59 p.m.

    bitterman

    who are you to tell me I should feel guilty?

  • NotFunny West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 4:59 p.m.

    @ Mount Olympus
    The "BYU Coaches Show" is taped on Saturdays.

  • wtfhinutah SOUTH SALT LAKE, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:01 p.m.

    @DRay Roy, UT. __ and Saturday isn't the Sabbath. Try and consider what you say and how stupid it is before being the first to cast a stone. Hilarious!

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:03 p.m.

    I like Vai, but I think he went too far with this. There are many reasons why people miss a session of General Conference and none of us are compromising our salvation when it happens. A good example is my son who served a mission in Brazil. The 5 hour time difference meant that the Priesthood Session didn't start until they were supposed to be in their appartments. Their Mission President held fast to the curfew and they were never able to see the Priesthood Session in his two years as a missionary.

    Duckhunter,

    I think you and Vai are both guilty of the pot calling the kettle black. You call some Ute fans bigoted, classless and hateful yet you exhibit those same character traits on these comment boards regarding Ute fans, players and coaches. Vai calls out the Ute athletic administration and the Pac 12 over a Saturday night game scheduled during General Conference when he has often played on Sunday and worked his TV assignments on Sundays as part of his career in sports.

  • 19savant MENLO PARK, CA
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:04 p.m.

    Hey Vai, if we're talking about the importance of the messages at the priesthood session of general conference, maybe you need a refresher on recent messages from President Uchtdorf and Elder Andersen on the topics of not espousing hatred for your enemy, even in sports (ahem Max Hall) or perhaps the importance of serving a mission even if you're a star athlete (ahem Jimmer and Jake) before you call out the Utes and Chris Hill for playing a game on the Saturday of conference weekend?

    It reminds me of a saying from a very wise man... something like: "Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?... Thou hypocrite."

  • Hawkyo SYRACUSE, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:06 p.m.

    You people trying to turn this back on Vai are clueless! Playing professional ball is a person's job. They support their families that way. When I need to irrigate on Sunday because it's my turn with the water, it's my job to do it then, you can't put it off til monday. Let's thrown the farmers under the bus too. They can't be good mormons because their job requires them to feed/milk cows on sunday. (note sarcasm) How would you like it if your house caught fire on sunday like mine did years ago. It was sure nice to know that the Mormon firefighters were at work that day to help! Get real and stop hating!

  • OregonCougarFan Keizer, OR
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:14 p.m.

    Vai was not bashing the U of U. He was stating his opinion that the time the game is scheduled will be a conflict for some of the fans. Seems some of you Ute fans are as touchy as you claim Cougar fans are.

  • comeonman PAYSON, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:14 p.m.

    DRay | 4:45 p.m. Sept. 30, 2011
    Roy, UT
    Honoring the "Sabbath Day" is in the 10 Commandments of the Old Testament, so all Christian faiths should honor it...it is a key commitment of true believers, no excuses. You just don't have any such commitment at Utah or any state run school. Go Cougars.
    --------------------
    true believers? who are you to say who is a true believer or not? because somebody doesnt treat the sabbath as you do? God also said if you have ever looked upon a woman with lust you have already commited adultery in your heart. we are all sinners, YOU INCLUDED. your no better than any other member of the church.

  • GCQ West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:15 p.m.

    It's funny to see how many people are yelling "hypocrite" and ignoring the main point of the article.

    The main point is this...did UofU Athletic Director Dr. Chris Hill understand that his actions with the PAC 12 potentially alienated a certain subset of his fan base, recruiting base and donor base? How many people were alienated is anyone's guess.

    Giving Dr. Hill the benefit of the doubt, he did understand it...but determined that the benefits outweighed the costs. It is rare that wide-reaching decisions such as this please everyone. The UofU made their PAC 12 bed, and now their sleeping in it. But I'm sure they're not going to lose too much sleep over the ones who got away because of their decision to join the PAC 12 and not fret over the Sunday thing.

  • Kitenoa Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:16 p.m.

    Let's see what the actual count would be for both events on game day? Then we might draw some resonable conclusion or ask more questions. Go Utes.

  • tdlawton Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:20 p.m.

    If Eli Herring wrote this column I would think it has merit... Since it was written by a former NFL player (was was well paid to "work on Sundays) it comes off as more than a little hypocritical.

    That said as a non-LDS Utahn, I am fine with any Ute fans putting conference first. Football is not the most important thing in the world.

    At the same time I will point out that the game is already sell-out and so it doesn't appear the scheduling of this game will cost the UofU any money. I don't think that the UofU "needs" to try to turn the world upside down just because every 2 or 3 years there will be a conflict with General Conference.

  • NotFunny West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:24 p.m.

    @ Utesby3

    I concur with your logic, but would also turn it on its head.

    I (too) do wish people would leave religion out of sports, which is my main reason for disliking UofU. I think it is a fine school and has a fine sports program but unfortunately it has UofU fans. I simply cannot support UofU sports because of these types of (i.e., religiously biggotted) comments I've heard from UofU fans throughout my life. And this is coming from a Utah mormon. How about that as a "huge bite for thought".

    Your comment is 100% valid both ways. As a Cougar fan who has a degree from both schools, I do not like the relgious overtones from both sides of the divide. But your reasoning for not liking BYU because of the religious arguments of their fans doesn't seem consistent because the anti-religious arguments are just as divisive. Maybe if you just say you're a Ute fan and I just say I'm a Cougar fan then religion is left out all together!

  • TheHailstorm South Weber, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:24 p.m.

    Always a good day when I open the Deseret News Sports and get my temperance lecture , guilt trip , and ethics discussions right near the box scores.
    I just am waiting for the day when I can open the conference section of the Deseret News and get the injured reserved list for RLS's next home game.

    i just go to the LDS section to get the injured list for RSL's next game.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:34 p.m.

    Re: Red Headed Stranger

    What do students at BYU and UU have in common? They both chose the plan of agency in pre-mortal life.

    How are BYU and UU students different? The U students chose agency in this life, while BYU students gave up their agency.

  • JustAnotherAverageGuy Holladay, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:37 p.m.

    Red-headed stranger: please consider the fact that Utah is a state school and BYU is a private school before you start throwing out average SAT score with the implication that it somehow makes BYU better. It dies mean that BYU is harder to get into, but some of us made very conscious choices to not apply at BYU for reasons other than fear of rejection.

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:37 p.m.

    I don't know about this article.

    I am LDS and try to live the Sabbath, so I'm not an NFL fan. I would never attend a game on Sunday. I've missed more Super Bowls than I've watched.

    On the other hand, Vai played on Sundays, and for years the LDS Church trotted out Steve Young, Danny Ainge, Dale Murphy, Chad Lewis -- and Vai -- for firesides, PR, etc..

    I'd be more interested in Vai's candid description of how he and others handled and reconciled that, than I would be in his take on the Utes and PAC's positions.

  • realtycheck Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:39 p.m.

    So what exactly are these consequences Vai speaks of? Is my soul in danger for missing GP?Lord help us all if that is all it takes to be cast out. Lighten up people!

  • I Will Be Till I Die Holladay, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:43 p.m.

    I've loved Vai's column in the past, but this is way over the top for someone whose past - and present, for that matter - includes as much Sunday work as his does.

  • Rwright Seattle, WA
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:47 p.m.

    Imagine that, Mormons offended when the secular world doesn't bend to personal convenience.

    I'm willing to bet that Vai has worked more Sundays than Dr. Hill.

  • papi4481 Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:53 p.m.

    I am ashamed to be a member of the church that is affiliated with the Deseret News that allowed this article to be published.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:05 p.m.

    This has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read. Why do people have to accommodate the Mormon church so much? I guarantee that if the Jazz were title contenders and they played ten games on Sundays during the season that all ten games would be sold out.

    Everybody has a choice. If you are a Mormon or whatever and you do not like the fact that games are on conference weekend or played on Sunday then do not go to them. Do not whine and expect everybody to conform to your beliefs.

  • papi4481 Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:06 p.m.

    PS Brother Sikahema, even if your nephew were allowed to stick around to watch Priesthood session of conference, he would have to watch it with other U fan sinners who go to the game and watch it afterwards. The game will still be going on when Priesthood session is going, and I'm pretty sure the coach will not allow him to leave early. And since when was watching it "live" required? Show me in the teachings of the church Mr. Sikahema where it says that Priesthood holders have to watch Priesthood session live. Aren't you currently in a Stake Presidency? As an LDS member in a leadership position, you should be extra cautious about what you speak/say/write.

  • PDN SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:14 p.m.

    Opinion pieces like this drive me crazy because they are so divisive. Vai takes a shot at the U and the PAC 12 for scheduling a game on conference Saturday. Where are the shots at BYU? Almost every year BYU's minor sports teams play games on conference Saturday and no shot is taken at them. Why not? I checked, and this year the men's golf and women's tennis teams are playing tomorrow. Will they take a break between 10-12 and 2-4 when the Prophet is speaking? How about KSL TV? They will air commercial broadcasts during the priesthood session and also every Sunday. It seems to me that the LDS Church and the institutions they support have a lot going on Saturday and Sunday. Maybe Vai should address those institutions.

  • TheHailstorm South Weber, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:14 p.m.

    @Duckhunter
    Did they finally let you out up on the hill?
    After bad mouthing the Utes for months on end with snide remarks consistently such as " real Ute Fans , blah blah blah, where were you when it was time to take your lumps ? I know I'll bet you were having the boys teach you to spell check about the time when the score was 40-10.
    Scoreboard,Duck,Scoreboard
    LOL :

  • papi4481 Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:17 p.m.

    @Hawkyo Really? Vai "had" to play on Sunday to support his family? I'm pretty sure that Brother Sikahema is a smart guy and could have found other ways to support his family. He made a "choice" to play on Sunday. Am I condemning him? Absolutely not. People have the free agency to make their own choices, and it is not our place to judge anyone. This article and many comments is about LDS Utah fans who choose to go to the Utah game on Saturday night, and most of whom will watch Priesthood Session later. This is their choice. Nowhere in the teachings of the church does it say that Priesthood Session needs to be attended "live". If this were the case, the Church would not provide the technological means to view it. Are the U students that attend the game and go to the Institute afterwards to watch it in the wrong? I'm pretty sure that they will have an uplifting experience like those who view it in other venues live at 6:00pm.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:19 p.m.

    BYU's womens tennis and mens golf are playing tomorrow, likely their warmups or even compeition occuring during conference sessions.

    How did the BYU sports playing on conference Saturday not make it into Vai's article? Because it's a lot easier to take a shot at Utah and the PAC.

  • Flames6 North Salt Lake, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:42 p.m.

    Really ? Vai thinks waaaaaay too much of himself and the things that matter to BYU. Why the heck would folks at the U put BYU standards before their own. Shows the mentality that helps the world look at the state of Utah in such a bad light. I wish I hadn't read this article.

  • SoCalUtahFan Uteville, CA
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:43 p.m.

    @Hawkyo

    ...Playing professional ball is a person's job...

    and playing football is not a college player's job to earn his scholarship for his college education?

    What about those LDS college kids who work on Saturday --waiter/waitresses/etc--across the country...are they all off staying home and watch LDS conference.

    Hypocrites!
    This is nothing but a plot from Vai trying to help poorly/desperately BYU for a few recruits--but you know what, kids today are smarter, and you can't fool them....hahaha!

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:44 p.m.

    According to the BYU Athletics web site, the following BYU sports teams are playing on Conference Saturday:

    Mens Tennis

    Womens Volleyball

    Womens Golf

    How do the coaches of these teams explain this to future recruits?

  • ama Mililani, HI
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:55 p.m.

    Thank you Vai for that important reminder. Remember the story of the Arabian and a Camel? Well, this is it!!
    Spiritual Triumph is more important than the worldly Fame of winning and pleasing those above you. Do the Right Thing no matter at what cost. Remember Mitt Romney's great Speech on his Faith during the 2008 Campaign? It's a great Example!

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Sept. 30, 2011 6:59 p.m.

    A. Big 12 membership will have consequences for Mormons.
    B. If Vai is so worried about Utah and the Pac 12, then BYU should end its athletic program tomorrow. After all, some of those students will go on to play pro sports on Sundays. Yes Vai, you just got Jimmered!

  • husky2010 Renton, WA
    Sept. 30, 2011 7:02 p.m.

    Here is an idea. You conform to the confrence, the confrence does NOT conform to you.If you have issues with this or any other scheduling comflict leave the Pac and go back to the MTN west or WAC...Problem solved!Not sure where people get off on the idea the Pac has to bend for you in the first place.Most ridiculous comments I have read in a long time.

  • Utes11 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 30, 2011 7:08 p.m.

    Dear Vai,
    Didn't you play in the NFL? So how do YOU explain playing on Sundays to all the "key lds recruits" that Coach Kyle will be talking to?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 7:25 p.m.

    @Bitterman
    "At the least they should stop proclaiming that the affiliation with such bigots is a qualifier for greatness."

    Playing a game during general conference qualifies as bigoted? Goodness, almost all college games are during the Jewish Sabbath, are all schools anti-semitic in your book too?

    "I am still waiting for kyle or one of the many other mormon utes to call out the anti mormon byu haters."

    Coaches and football players have more important things to worry about than obnoxious bigoted fans (plus I see you don't have a similar request of BYU about the remarks made suggesting Utah doesn't have any morals because they're playing tomorrow). But hey, you know what, I'll say it. The bigoted anti-mormon remarks made by Utah Ute fans on this forum (probably largely filtered I'm sure) and elsewhere, are reprehensible and frequently hypocritical. Then again, you wanted a mormon ute to call them out, and I handed a letter of resignation from the church to my bishop last night... so uh, I guess I don't qualify for that.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 7:39 p.m.

    @defibman
    "Usually when someone hurries and makes excuses, it means that they feel guilty about something. "

    Don't be silly, it has nothing to do with guilt. It has to do with the fact that it really makes no difference at all if you hear conference at 6pm tomorrow or 9am next friday so why is this such a big issue? When I was part of the church general conference was the day you could lay in bed in your pajamas and listen to conference; it was the one day I could go to the ward at penn state in casual clothes and it wouldn't matter at all. My best friends dad fell asleep during one of the sessions that one time I watched it at her house. Most people miss a session and jut get caught up later. It's not a big deal. But hey, don't let that stop you from being holier than thou and using language akin to accusing Utes of sinning and being in need of repentence.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 7:41 p.m.

    Wow... horrible article... honestly, I have so much to say here but it would take about 1,000 words to get it all out and I am not going to waste my time.

  • TheHailstorm South Weber, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 8:02 p.m.

    @niners
    Then why did you ?

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 8:59 p.m.

    I think this has a lot more to do with Utah losing President Young than Utah joining the PAC. Could have happened in the MWC for a nationally televised game anyways.
    Still impressed that Utah has pulled this off for so long.

  • jake heaps = ben olson Ottawa, ON
    Sept. 30, 2011 9:35 p.m.

    Vai needs to be fired from this Opinion section, unless the Deseret News let's someone else write articles picking apart everything about BYU.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 9:36 p.m.

    Last I checked the University of Utah is a state run schoo. and therefore a secular institution. Give it up Vai!

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 30, 2011 9:49 p.m.

    I typically enjoy and many times agree with Vai's take on things. This time I find this article a hypocritical attack on the University of Utah (a state secular school; remember that thing about separation of church and state?). For a man who chose mammon over the Sabbath for years I say be careful casting stones as there is a mite in your own eye. Honestly choosing to play football on Sunday is far more iffy than playing during Priesthood meeting which is held on a day that is not the Sabbath. It just happens to be conference weekend by rest assured it is still Saturday. And if true, the part about some BYU teams playing tomorrow is icing on the hypocrisy cake.

  • Big Daddy Utah SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 9:55 p.m.

    This article points out the reason why those of us in Utah (I was born and raised here) that are not LDS dislike Mormons. If we don't agree with you, we are outcast. Let me make something clear, tomorrow is Saturday, not Sunday, if LDS dads and sons want to attend Preistood sessions, it is their business. If I want to attend the Utah football game on Saturday, it is my choice, I do not need Vai trying to make me feel guilty. When will the LDS people learn to live and let live and respect others points of view.

    By the way, I bet the crowd tomorrow is the largest in the history of RES.
    GO UTES.

  • ChiefSportsFan Denver, CO
    Sept. 30, 2011 10:07 p.m.

    Excellent, thoughtful piece, as usual, Vai! Thank you! Amazing how the truth stirs up such emotions. How do you say "Guilty Conscience" for so many? Love it - thanks again!

  • runnerguy50 Virginia Beach, Va
    Sept. 30, 2011 10:21 p.m.

    I agree and admire Vai for making his comments. I love football but will be with my football playing son Saturday night receiving guidance. Having said that I don't judge my fellow brethern but it does seem like Dr Hill really wants to push this issue which is a shame.

  • Just Me SLC, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 10:28 p.m.

    The blog comments have been a good read:

    Please tell me where in "Keep the Sabbath Day Holy" it differentiates between pro, amateur, etc....

    OH YEA!!! it's right next to the section on modesty EXCEPT for proms, pageants, cheerleading, drill team or athletic practices!!! Ot the dating section UNLESS we're just hanging out AND it's the bishop's kid I'm with!!!

    Via....I respect you and your columns, however, you missed it this time BIG TIME!!! Is football or other "big ticket" (which is big money) more important than tennis, volleyball or golf?? Really?

    I thought you were one of the "cougars" that were different; write a repentance column and restore our faith in you cuz' you're sounding like you've been in Provo WAY to long!!!

  • Big Daddy Utah SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 10:29 p.m.

    Dr. Hill is not pushing the issue. He has an athletic department to run. I find it interesting how many BYU teams are playing tomorrow, yet Vai takes a jab at the UofU. Poor taste and lack of information before he wrote his article. Runnerguy 50, thank you for not judging me, you are a rarity in our culture.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 10:44 p.m.

    "But the Pac-12 doesn't care about General Conference. Neither does it care about playing Sunday games."

    *******************

    Interesting comment from one who made a very good living playing/working on Sundays.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 10:45 p.m.

    Wally West: Another Ute troll who tries to guess what others are thinking!

  • parrothead orem, ut
    Sept. 30, 2011 10:51 p.m.

    They need to widen more than the freeways in Utah ! Really Vai ?

  • FYI Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 10:54 p.m.

    I knew there would be problems with this article when Vai stated, that BYU "always" played Utah State on the Friday before Conference. Since 1972, of the 18 games BYU has played on the Friday before Conference, 16 of those have been against USU. However, they have also played 17 games on Conference Saturday, the most recent at home against SDSU in 2006. I guess even A.D. Holmoe didn't have enough pull to keep that game off the MTN during Conference. Vai must have forgotten that during his playing days, he only played one conference weekend game on a Friday. His senior year he played at home against CSU on Saturday, and as he stated it would be difficult not to play during conference sessions. It would be easier to respect his opinion if it was presented with facts, rather than just emotion. Also jumping from Conference weekend to Sunday play was interesting. Yes the U will play on Sunday, they have in other sports. Many recruits have probably already played or attended camps on Sunday. If BYU gains recruits because they wont have to play on Sunday, so be it. But they may still miss Conference.

  • CT98 Saint George, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 10:57 p.m.

    I think Vai was right on the money with this one. I have had the same thoughts all week. I understand Dr Hill is between a rock and a hard place and feel bad for this scheduling conflict. Hopefully it won't happen too many times over the years. I'm a die-hard football fan and I know it is hard to understand but there are some things in life more important than football.

    Great Article Vai.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 11:05 p.m.

    utah "fans"

    For the record I really don't care what any of you do tomorrow or if utah schedules games during preistood session or right in the middle of my church block Sunday morning. I won't judge any of you for the decision you make tomorrow as to which event you will attend. I simply don't care.

    What I find very interesting here is your kneejerk outrage at Vai when it is obvious he cares about you and that was his intent.

    Now for the record I don't completely agree with him, I myself feel more than a little 'over churched' at times as we all know part of being Mormon is a never ending stream of meetings and preaching. I'm also aware that with todays technology you can all watch it later on if you want to.

    But Vai voicing concern for you is not a reason to get outraged. I expect it from the ute "fan" bigots for for those of you that are LDS, or just good people of any faith, take the message in the intent it was meant, if you don't agree then don't agree, but drop the typical ute "fan" persecution complex.

  • badlandscougar great plains, sd
    Sept. 30, 2011 11:12 p.m.

    good article Vai,i guess you can run for office now. i wonder if there are any broken dishes in the new house, on the new street, in the new neighborhood? i was cougar when cougar wasn't cool...

  • zeba North Ogden, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 11:20 p.m.

    The cool thing about modern technology... is that you can watch, listen, or hear the conference reports later... The message in the talks will be the same. If you are good enough to play at a PAC school, take advantage of the opportunity.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 11:21 p.m.

    I love you Vai; and I think this is a great rebuttal from 1985's Utah Chronicle.

    It pointed out on the front page that Utah played on Friday night conference weekend and Vai's BYU Cougars played at home Saturday afternoon against Colorado State.

    I used this article to diss BYU fans for years. Now it has come full circle.
    For this I am sorry I said anything. Sorry Vai. Now I know I was being self-righteous.

  • Hugus IDAHO FALLS, ID
    Sept. 30, 2011 11:22 p.m.

    Bro Vai,

    I am honored to be attending the Utah game tomorrow with an inactive LDS member of my family. Lets hope he hasn't read your column or he'll continue to be dismayed by the intolerance of your words. I find your arrogance and holier than thou attitude disturbing. Everything you have is based on your football career of which Sabbath play was common place. The way the Cougars are playing football they are going to need all the help they can to stay competitive so gaining a couple of LDS players that are influenced by Saturday night play might be what they need to keep it close. How does 54 - 17 sound for next year vice 54 - 10. Separation of church and state is a good thing.

    I'll watch priesthood conference on delay with many other good members of the church that were occupied - doctors, police officers, soldiers, pilots and perhaps even a couple of LDS sportscasters!

  • Magic Man Draper, UT
    Sept. 30, 2011 11:29 p.m.

    On October 4th 2003 BYU played at San Diego State at 7 PM MST. This just happened to be the same night and time as the Priesthood session. I remember attending the Priesthood session wondering why BYU wouldn't change the time for the game. Where was the article bashing the Y for that decision? Did the BYU athletics department "not care about conference?" Vai, don't be a hater just because your alma mater has been passed up by the Utes and have been invited to the PAC 12 conference. You are right about one thing, BYU coaches will use this when recruiting against Utah for LDS athletes...but what else is new.

  • Larq SANDY, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 1:07 a.m.

    @GAmom

    Usually the only college football games played on Sunday are a couple of bowl games. But for college basketball, many games are played on Sunday -- the Utes have played post season games on Sunday, and even played a regular season game in 1998 on a Sunday.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 2:01 a.m.

    Hugus | 11:22 p.m.
    IDAHO FALLS, ID

    "Bro Vai,

    I am honored to be attending the Utah game tomorrow with an inactive LDS member of my family. Lets hope he hasn't read your column or he'll continue to be dismayed by the intolerance of your words. I find your arrogance and holier than thou attitude disturbing."

    ===

    Hand this article to your family member, and tell them why you are going to General Priesthood. Might be a great missionary experience, and your family member might just follow your example someday.

    ...........

    But can we get serious. All of the calling out Brother Vai is just plainly that most of you who consider yourselve great Latter-Day-Saints and U fans, are MINO's (Mormons in Name Only).

    You know Vai is dead on with the article. If I had ticks to see Utah tomorrow night, I would be at LES. I don't pretend. But many won't see the game.

    However, to set up a game for the night of Priesthood will stop several Ute faithful from attending the game. Not a cool thing to do to the reak fans.

    Vai's right, and you all know it.

    Chris Hill knows it.

  • mr. j Cottonwood Hts., Ut
    Oct. 1, 2011 2:12 a.m.

    Preisthood session at the Salt Lake Institute just south of campus at 9p.m. tommorow night.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 2:17 a.m.

    Previous post apology, the game tomorrow is in RES...

  • delasalle Sandy, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 5:16 a.m.

    I enjoy most of Vai's articles but this one shows he's getting a little too big for his britches. People need to understand that we are not in those meetings and don't understand all the issues that go into managing a schedule let alone a university. Chris Hill and others are making decisions for thousands of students and constituents, not only the LDS crowd. To do their job right, they need to consider all of these needs. These types of articles are exactly the reason non-members wonder if an LDS president wouldn't be beholden to the Church leadership and membership first and other American citizens second. And this is coming from an LDS BYU alum.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Oct. 1, 2011 6:54 a.m.

    BYU has in the past played during General Conference. The campuses are open in places like the Library, Swimming pool and Gym I believe. Minor sports such as softball have played during Conference. I beleive Ricks when they had a team played then.

    Thing is though were 60 Grand will be they try to avoid conflict with Conference. That is why they play at 8 on Saturday when they do play during conference. Interesting if BYU makes the final four conference weekend what that will do to BYU sports fans.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 7:44 a.m.

    Vai you always have an interesting perspective. For most not an issue, but the division lines between what the two institutions stand for becomes much clearer. One is secular with a very limited ability to explore broadly any intellectual subject such is govern by the conformity such influence requires. Their activities always dictated by the secular populism of the moment. The other focused on firm principles and priorities allowing open intellectual pursuit with their activities directed by firm faith. Again, for most not an issue, but you are correct it may make a difference once in a while for an athelete with aligned values. After all isn't that the basis of Bronco's recruiting right now.

  • bshelt SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 7:47 a.m.

    I'm emabarrased to be a Mormon today not a Ute. It's pias members like Vai that garner ill will towards Mormons. Calling out Chris Hill is totally inappropriate. If Vai feels it wrong then don't go but his hypocricy is pretty evident with his Sunday play. I just don't see why anyone feels they have to force their supposed standards on everyone else. Vai you owe Chris Hill and any Mormon that attends the game tonight.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 8:10 a.m.

    The Jazz have not played at home on Sunday since the 90's because they are not on national TV.
    We used to get a letter from LHM each year before season ticket renewal with a promise that only up to one regular season home game would be on Sunday IF it was televised. Post season was not included.

    The Dallas Mavericks have the same deal with their season ticket holders.

    Another note - The first Saturday of October is not an LDS religious holiday.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 8:40 a.m.

    Thanks for the courage to write this; I think it was Lee Benson who wrote that 50 years ago, NO colleges played on Sunday----today ---all but one. How is it that only one college has kept the integrity???? All the others once observed the Sabbath due to Biblical influence----no longer the case today. The PAC 12 will bring lot of money to SLC as well and that is good, and I do recall BYU in the last 10 years kicking off minutes after the priesthood session (in San Diego I think) so BYU has recently played on conference weekend (pres. hinckley joked that night in his talk about everyone running out of conference to see the game)-----I can't judge the Utes for this----but I do judge the entire country for going down a slippery slope the last 50 years.

  • Redweek KIMBERLY, ID
    Oct. 1, 2011 8:44 a.m.

    Unfortunately, Deseret News should have used more wisdom in allowing its publication.

    The issues I have are the following:

    1. Utah's invitation to the PAC 12 was a monumental event for our state. As newcomers to this conference there were probably much bigger scheduling issues to negotiate (like scheduling 5 home PAC 12 games because BYU and PITT were already scheduled on the road) then to accommodate general conference saturday. Sure I was disappointed the kickoff conflicts with Priesthood, like many LDS ute fans are. But give me a break, it is the first year in the league. How presumptious to start calling the shots your first year in!!!

    2. Why damage an already fragile relationship between the University and the Church. Having spent 8 years in school there, I loved studying with and learning from those of other faiths. My impression is that the University does try to distance itself from the mormon culture by a vocal minority but overall there is general unspoken goodwill with the church. By calling out Chris Hill and the University like this only damages that relationship and shows the jealousy about our PAC invite and the bitterness of the 54-10 beatdown.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 9:07 a.m.

    Vai,

    This article has disturbed me like very few others have in recent memory. It comes across as a desperate attempt by a former BYU alum to get a jab in at the Utes and their new Pac 12 affiliation. I'll make one thing clear: I am an active member of the LDS Church and even hold a prominent Stake calling (as if that should matter).

    For you to write an article basically calling the U to repentance for not fighting to play on Sundays is the ultimate in hypocrisy. What about Steve Young? What about Ty Detmer? What about Todd Christensen? What about Dale Murphy? And what about YOU??? All of these athletes I've mentioned here have one thing in common: They are LDS athletes who made a living playing on Sunday.

    Some occupations require their employees to work on Sunday. It is not ideal, but that is what they have to do if they are to keep their jobs. Now, concerning Utah's having to play on Sunday, the poster named Redweek said it best. Please re-read his post. Utah is the "new kid on the block," hardly in a position to dictate when it will play.

  • syracuseUte SYRACUSE, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    This is so hypocritical on so many levels it's barely worth mentioning. For one thing if this was SO important, why did his nephew go to Washington? Apparently, he did want the "BYU" experience. This just comes off as another weak attempt at sour grapes and is actually quite comical after students rushed the field last night after beating a 1-2 team. People just need to realize that they are 1-3 vs. In-state schools in the last year and a case could be made that they are the 3rd best team in the state. BYU fans that grew up during the glory years just can't come to grips with the fact that they will never rise to the same levels that they have in the past and that they are more on par Utah State than they are with the Utes. They need to get real about who they are and stop having all of these delusions of grandeur.

  • onewoodwacker Puyallup, WA
    Oct. 1, 2011 9:49 a.m.

    Geez Vai, you need to put on your BYU Jersey next time you feel like posing for the camera and writing an anti-Utah Utes/PAC-12 article like that.

    I see how you mentioned the NBS in your article. Didn't you play in the NFL though. I see how you "decided " to leave that part out - do I REALLY "need" to mention, by name, ALL of the "BYU" Graduates that have/are/will be, playing on Sunday's in the NFL?

    Desert News (aka-Propaganda Express) should be ashamed for printing this article.

    Point your finger at someone and three are pointing back -

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    GoRed | 9:07 a.m.
    WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

    Vai,

    "This article has disturbed me like very few others have in recent memory. It comes across as a desperate attempt by a former BYU alum to get a jab in at the Utes and their new Pac 12 affiliation. I'll make one thing clear: I am an active member of the LDS Church and even hold a prominent Stake calling (as if that should matter).

    For you to write an article basically calling the U to repentance for not fighting to play on Sundays is the ultimate in hypocrisy."

    ===
    I have never been a fan of Vai's.

    If you read the article, it is not a personal attack on the U (he has written many nice articles about the U), he is simply stating that the PAC opportunity will either keep LDS people out of priesthood meeting, or will keep Utah fans away from the game.

    Like I said in a previous post, I'd go to the game. They're showing priesthood at the institute after.

    (Hopefully all good Mormon Utes will choose priesthood. This way, there will less drinking at the game, and fewer beer throwing incidents).

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 10:21 a.m.

    PS...

    GoRed | 9:07 a.m.
    WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

    "I am an active member of the LDS Church and even hold a prominent Stake calling (as if that should matter)."

    ===

    I'll buy your tickets...

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 10:23 a.m.

    You know one thing I haven't heard on campus this week? Complaints from LDS members about this game being this week. There was a scheduling conflict, it got resolved with a 9pm priesthood session re-broadcast, and generally most everyone is fine with it. It's not a very difficult problem which is probably why there weren't student newspaper articles about it debating it, no letters to the editor accusing the university of being anti-mormon or not caring about LDS members.

    @syracuseUte
    " In-state schools in the last year and a case could be made that they are the 3rd best team in the state. "

    Definitely...at least for 57 minutes of the game they are. Those last three minutes Utah State is probably 9th in the state behind a few high schools.

  • UtahUte16 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 10:47 a.m.

    I usually don't mind Vai's articles, but he's definitely lost my respect with this one. I've been an avid reader of DesNews comments since I was a sophomore in high school. I'm now 21 and a student at the U. I have been inactive for a few years, but am trying to get back to going. But the comments I see on here day after day from BYU fans makes me question if I really want to go back. The holier than thou attitude is what drove me away in the first place.

    People need to realize that even though you're hiding behind a computer screen, what you say still is a valid assumption of the kind of person you really are. What you say and how you treat people in an anonymous comment board is a good indicator of the integrity you really have.

    I'm about done with the DesNews and the drivel they let spew from their comment boards. As a questioning member, this is NOT the representation of the church I would want outsiders reading. This may not be published, but it wouldn't surprise me. Prove me wrong DN moderator.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 10:57 a.m.

    Veritas Aequitas,

    Not a bad post. However, your interpretation of Vai's article is much softer than it came across. All you have to do is read how other posters interpreted it. On the second page he tries to give Dr. Hill a guilt trip by stating how when Larry Miller bought the Jazz, he made it known that he didn't want Sunday games. Comparing Dr. Hill to Miller is like comparing apples to oranges. The NBA is a money-making business. Fellow team owners were more open accommodate Miller, as they were all in it to make money.

    Chris Hill is in a totally different position. Inclusion into the Pac 12 is obviously prestigious, yet highly political. And, as I posted earlier, Utah is the new kid on the block, hardly in a position to make demands.

    As far as new LDS recruits are concerned, I doubt it will make much difference. As I posted, playing on Sunday didn't seem to deter such LDS (and BYU affiliated) athletes such as Steve Young and Danny Ainge. Also, Utah's program is full of LDS coaches and players (30+ returned missionaries, I believe).

    Bottom line, it was a foolish article.

  • Dixie Dan Saint George, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 11:07 a.m.

    Devout LDS kids may not want to play on Sunday? My how that attitude changes if they happen to be drafted by the NFL, NBA or Major League Baseball where they can now play on Sunday for money. A double standard?

  • bebot SHAWNEE MISSION, KS
    Oct. 1, 2011 11:18 a.m.

    Larry H Miller didnt schedule games on Sundays for 2 reasons.

    1. He's an owner and low attendence on Sundays hit him in the wallet big time.
    2. He didn't attend games on Sundays himself.

    Not sure which was more important to him, but if Sunday play hits Utah in the wallet then expect it to become something that Hill tries to change in the future. The only thing Hill has done wrong if anything is he might not have considered the financial impact of having games on Sundays.

    Vai is obviously a spokesman for the Church, but he needs to reconsider some of his articles. He's a polarizing writer and that is not what the Church wants. The whole I'm a mormon campaign is to build a bridge between Mormons and the rest of the country, articles like this destroy these bridges.

  • catram North Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 1, 2011 11:25 a.m.

    I enjoyed the first few articles by Vai. As a huge byu fan, frankly I now find him both uninformed and judgmental. Cancel his article Deseret News.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 11:25 a.m.

    So many of you are equating this with the Sunday play issue and it is not equivalent. Today is not the Sabath day! Playing football today is not a sin!

    While it is preferable for LDS priesthood holders to attend the meeting tonight live, that is not possible for everyone and there are LDS men all over the world who will have to make other arrangements to receive the instruction given tonight. There is no shame in this and the Church makes the audio, video and written records of the instruction available to all, because of this.

    Yes, the Utes game affects more LDS men than any other football game being played today, but there was no ill will intended by Dr. Hill or the Pac 12 conference. The scheduling conflict arose from the conference and the Utah athletic department seeking to fulfill their goal of better TV exposure. What I object to is the perception from Vai's article that somehow this was done on purpose or at least not caring about another's religion. That simply is not true.

  • Big R La Palma, CA
    Oct. 1, 2011 12:15 p.m.

    I'm wondering who Vai spoke to at the Pac-12 before making his statements. I'm a big Vai fan, but I'm pretty sure nobody said a word to the Pac-12 about this situation. Larry Scott, the Commissioner, is Jewish and does care about the Jewish holidays and would be understanding if someone mentioned it to him. I think Vai succumbed to what many in Utah do, think poorly of those outside the faith without giving them a chance to demonstrate.

    Judge not lest ye be judged or at least judge not unrighteously. It's okay though, we can always repent and change!

  • LoveTheRockyMtns Utah, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 1:17 p.m.

    Vai,

    Why go to the meeting if you don't pay attention?
    I remember a year or 2 ago, President Uchtdorf give a talk about Utah and BYU fans being more civil to one another.

    You were at the meeting, but you must have been day dreaming about your football days at BYU.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 1:41 p.m.

    Really Vai? Don't you see the hypocrisy, given BYU's own athletic scheduling in the past and your NFL experience, in bagging on the PAC-12 and the Utes for playing on Saturday evening during the Priesthood Session?

    Vai's comments do nothing to dispel the unfortunate stereotype that ALL Mormons are sanctimonious. I wish he hadn't dragged us LDS Ute fans under the bus with him.

  • TheHailstorm South Weber, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 2:31 p.m.

    @Duckhunter
    Your creditability and reputation took a big hit when you buried your head in the sand after the spanking in Provo. How about that Jake Murphy heh, Duck ?
    Face it you showed your hand as one of those duck blinded blue bloods that predicted doom for the Utes and then ran behind the apron when the Cougars LOST 54-10. That's the stuff show us what a big boy you are after a lo0ss that you predicted radically different.
    Your just small potatoes now Duck and cover.
    54 Scoreboard :.} Duck :.{ 10 Scoreboard
    LOL LOL LOL !!!

  • LoveTheRockyMtns Utah, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 2:56 p.m.

    Why doesn't BYU-TV rebroadcast the meeting at 10 pm this evening?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 3:12 p.m.

    Vai merely states the facts.

    From a purely business standpoint, and a program, Utah, which desires to climb out from under the "2nd Fiddle" position in this market, (pipe-dream) it's just bad business. Not very smart at all.

    However, beggers can't be choosers or make waves.

    It's the same reason PhD Dr. Hill (not an actual Doctor) was willing to take whatever the Pac gave him, as with the TV deal. It's four years before revenues fully come the U's way! That's a big head start for their new found friends. Even Colorado got a better deal.

    Hill is doing what he has to do. Utah has the 2nd smallest stadium, they rank 11th in attendance, and are 10th in Academics (Pac-12)...(124th Nationally)

    As the next Washington State, Utah can hardly be calling the shots in the Pac 12. They know their place, and are happy to sit down and be content.

    Many U of U alumni show an even greater loyalty to BYU, their Church's school, rather than their own alma mater, the U.

    This is Utah's "Conundrum" to figure out.

    Even Dr. Lavell Edwards or Dr. Norman Chow would most likely concur.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 3:28 p.m.

    Seems truly weird to me that the Institute would put the prioritize game in front of the Priesthood Session. Why can they not watch the Priesthood Session, record the game and then show it after Priesthood. Doing it the way they are doing tells the young men that other things should be first before Priesthood.

  • snowman801 Utah, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 3:30 p.m.

    Re: Bluto

    I guess the University of Utah is the only University in the state that educates "actual Doctors"

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 3:45 p.m.

    re: Bluto | 3:12 p.m. Oct. 1, 2011

    "Vai merely states the facts."

    An opinion piece that states facts. Really?

    "However, beggers can't be choosers or make waves."

    The other option would be to be greedy & prideful then declare independence.

    "Utah can hardly be calling the shots in the Pac 12. They know their place, and are happy to sit down and be content."

    There are many lessons to be learned. Compromise, acceptance, unselfishness, knowing how work and get along w/ others, etc...

  • H-man Shreveport, LA
    Oct. 1, 2011 4:47 p.m.

    It's really been quite humorous to read all the comments from Ute fans trying to justify the situation and claim there's nothing "wrong" with the game conflicting with the Priesthood session of General Conference. That's probably correct--there's nothing immoral or dishonest and therefore "wrong" about it. But you're missing the point.

    It's not a question of right and wrong, nor does the issue have anything to do with whether one or the other can be recorded and watched later. It's a question of values and agency. When an individual exercises his/her agency by making a choice, that choice reveals something about the values and ideals operating in a person's life. The choice says something about what the individual values most. I think Vai was simply trying to point that out and indicate that the PAC 12, by scheduling a game in Salt Lake City on Conference weekend, didn't do a very good job of considering the majority culture of the state, thereby creating an awkward or uncomfortable choice or whatever for some Ute fans. And whether it was intentional or not, the conference just gave more fuel for the claims many have made regarding PAC 12 bigotry.

  • BYUte06 Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 1, 2011 6:01 p.m.

    Reading this article and the comments posted by the various members reminds me of a statement a relative of mine once made. She grew up in Utah county and has since relocated to a remote location in Arizona where the LDS church is still strong, but the area is much more religiously diverse (admittedly, that doesn't take much when compared to Utah county). Basically, she said something to the effect of "I loved Utah, but I think when the Lord commanded us to be the salt of the earth he didn't intend for us to get so salty."

    I think if the major concern in the LDS faithful's lives is whether or not to watch the priesthood session before or after the game, they're probably doing something right. I really look forward to Vai's articles and this one seems very different from what I've grown to expect. I would think given the subject and Vai's background it would have been a perfect venue to discuss "being in the world, but not of the world" and discuss how LDS values influence, but don't dictate, free agency.

  • ahmyers San Leandro, CA
    Oct. 1, 2011 6:14 p.m.

    This article is ridiculous. Athletes know what they're signing up for.Mormon players that go on to play professionally can't complain that the NFL or NBA has Sunday or holiday games. That's what you signed up for, sports are just another branch of the entertainment industry, and most Americans are home in front of their TVs on Sunday.

    It's great that BYU is able to accommodate the culture of their Mormon players, but to complain about schools that don't make those adjustments is absurd considering BYU is also preparing players for a career played almost exclusively on Sundays.

  • BYUte06 Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 1, 2011 7:47 p.m.

    UtahUte16: don't let the over-represented minority get in the way of your personal commitment. Unfortunately unrighteous judgments are a part of a life we have to deal with, even the Savior was faced with this same irony. Religion isn't fully of perfect people maintaining status quo, but imperfect beings at various levels of commitment striving for commitment. Ignore the "holier than thou's" who illustrate their lack of understanding of gospel principles.

    From one brother to another, please, please, come back. I promise you won't regret it.

  • BYUte06 Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 1, 2011 7:48 p.m.

    *Edit*
    UtahUte16: don't let the over-represented minority get in the way of your personal commitment. Unfortunately unrighteous judgments are a part of a life we have to deal with, even the Savior was faced with this same irony. Religion isn't fully of perfect people maintaining status quo, but imperfect beings at various levels of commitment striving for perfection. Ignore the "holier than thou's" who illustrate their lack of understanding of gospel principles.

    From one brother to another, please, please, come back. I promise you won't regret it.

  • D'Anconia Providence, UT
    Oct. 1, 2011 11:56 p.m.

    This article was just more sour grapes about Utah getting their golden ticket punched. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 2, 2011 12:09 a.m.

    Wow - talk about a bunch of crybaby, sensitive, paranoid readers. Not once in the article did Via "bash" or "call out" anyone, or judge anyone as sinners or even claim anyone was making a wrong choice.

    All he said was that these kinds of decisions affect a community with a homogeneous fan base. That's not a value judgment - it's a simple fact that the comments prove out. Larry Miller made a personal and business decision that many in the local fan base appreciated. I'm sure many didn't care about playing on Sunday, but SOME did, therefore whatever he encouraged would impact the community.

    Just because one considers the feelings and values of a community doesn't mean they're insulting or judging those with different values. It just means they're smart enough to recognize there are repercussions to any decision. Is it better to consider the values of your fan base, or not to consider them?

    Personally, I can't imagine this would have any detectable impact on the college football teams, but I can certainly conceive of a religiously dedicated LDS basketball player on the fence coming down on the side of BYU because of certain Sunday play for the Utes.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Oct. 2, 2011 10:59 a.m.

    re: H-man | 4:47 p.m. Oct. 1, 2011

    This is what I had in mind on my post on 9/30 @ 1:47 p.m.

    "the PAC 12, by scheduling a game in Salt Lake City on Conference weekend, didn't do a very good job of considering the majority culture of the state"

    Really. it was standing room only.

    re: BYUte06 | 7:47 p.m. Oct. 1, 2011

    There is IMO too many repressed holier-than thou types here in Utah that leave a phemomenally bad taste in your mouth. Leaving is the only option as you can only take of the true belivers who live as if it doesn't matter what you do Mon to Sat as long as you are there going through motions on Sunday.

    Since leaving (LikeUte16), my life has been so much better, stress-free, calm, etc...

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Oct. 2, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    The one question we should be asking is; Why isn't Vai's nephew playing for Byu?

  • Amy's Mom OREM, UTAH
    Oct. 2, 2011 11:45 a.m.

    FANTASTIC, Thanks. I have sent this to my grand children.

  • Elk Hair Caddis Sandy, UT
    Oct. 2, 2011 6:00 p.m.

    "Dr. Hill, you're much smarter than I am" Don't count on it. Utah is literally taking out loans to fund football this year because they get 0 payout from the PAC 12 this year and only a half share next year while Colorado gets a full share (estimated at 15 to 20 million from the start).The Big 12 is rumored to be interested in both BYU and Utah. Utah should make the switch if offered.

  • SteveOrr4576 Wayzata, MN
    Oct. 2, 2011 8:52 p.m.

    Vais criticism is laid out in secular terms: the Utes playing football during conference hurts the programs connection to LDS Utah residents.

    This reminds me of when he noted how the lack of Polynesian coaches at BYU was hurting the programs connection to the Polynesian people. I was embarrassed when some of my fellow BYU fans reacted by calling Vai a racist.

    Similarly, I cant help but feel a little embarrassed for the fans who now call Vai hypocrite.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 3, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    " . . . PhD Dr. Hill (not an actual Doctor). . ."

    Bluto:

    Yes he is, and your attempt at a zinger is way off.

    The title "doctor", of Latin origin, has been used for a thousand years to describe honored and respected teachers. In the last century, recipients of medical degrees have embraced the title so fervently that the uneducated believe it can only be used to describe physicians. Fortunately, the U bestows all kinds of doctorate degrees, including education, science, philosophy, law and medicine.

  • carabaoU Moab, UT
    Oct. 3, 2011 11:11 a.m.

    Looking at past Conference Weekend schedules of BYU (Their website only goes back to 1998):

    Saturday 10/3/1998 at Fresno State (unable to find kickoff time)
    Saturday 10/4/2003 at San Diego State (7pm MDT)
    Saturday 10/2/2004 at Colorado State (8pm MDT)
    Saturday 10/1/2005 at San Diego State (7pm MDT)

    BYU has a history of playing on Conference Weekend, with some games during Priesthood.

    Why not schedule a road game at UTAH Friday night instead of USU? Then the fans and players can stay in SLC for the weekend and watch conference. Also, BYU fans won't have to worry about showing up at church on Sunday having to endure UTAH fans gloating about their blowout win?

  • Tami Herriman, UT
    Oct. 3, 2011 11:29 a.m.

    utesovertide-my daughter would certainly not be your date if you were looking for a young lady to take to the temple. She would be expecting you to be where you should be-priesthood!

  • Vegas Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 3, 2011 1:31 p.m.

    Just out of curiosity, does anyone have the attendance numbers for the game? PAC-12 may think twice about scheduling Utah home games during GC if the fanbase won't attend (albeit the game will probably just be an away game).

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2011 2:53 p.m.

    I have season tickets to the Ute games. I love the Utes. I am also a Mormon and love my church. I don't think that the decision of whether to attend the game or conference was a moral dilemma. As it turns out, I elected to sell my tickets and attend conference with my family, because that is a tradition I also cherish. But I could have easily reviewed the conference messages soon or caught the broadcast up at the Institute after the game (that was a really good idea, by the way).

    I see it as a different issue as for Sunday play. I am disappointed that the Utes may have a Sunday game, which I would never attend. Is that going to heavily affect recruiting? I doubt it. But knowing their fan base (which I know is changing but is still very heavily LDS, although many BYU fans are not willing to admit/cope with this fact), I hope that the Utes make a request to not play on Sundays, especially at home. I will not attend games on Sunday, and if home games are regularly set for Sunday, I will no longer be a season ticket holder.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 3, 2011 4:24 p.m.

    " . . .does anyone have the attendance numbers for the game?"

    Vegas:

    45K+, a sellout. There were a hundred or so empty seats in the top of the south end of the east bleachers. They kind of filled in when the sun went down.

    carabaoU:

    Thanks for the cold dose of reality to temper the sanctimony.

    Go Utes:

    I shared a similar family tradition, but I think I may have a new one. I took my adult son to the game and we streamed the PH session on my iPad shortly after we got home. That allowed us to pause the replay and talk over interesting points, instead of forgetting to do so while standing in line to buy a frozen custard. The extra time with him, at the stadium and at home, made it extra meaningful. Now I'm fully prepared for next year, either way.
    The only thing affected negatively was probably the attendance figure reported by my stake clerk. However, I suspect it was probably balanced by the streaming requests for replay.

    Is this a great country, or what?

  • Spencer L. Jensen American Fork, Utah
    Oct. 4, 2011 9:18 a.m.

    Yeah, but we're SPECIAL!!!

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 5, 2011 9:24 a.m.

    To JohnInSLC:

    You may be on to something! Sounds like a great new tradition. I just need to get me an iPad ....

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 4:47 p.m.

    Go Utes,

    I don't think we have to worry about football games being played on Sunday any time soon. The NFL has the Sunday time slots so locked up now it would be tough for college games to compete. The Sunday play issue affects the other sports from Basketball on down to tennis and golf. Women's soccer, for example, plays a Friday/Sunday schedule in the Pac 12 and the Ute's Women's soccer team is scheduled to play a Sunday game every week. That's unfortunate for the students who play those sports.

  • Pac12Proud SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 5:06 p.m.

    Vai, how much of a stand did byu take with ESPN to ensure there is no advertisement of alcohol during the their games? Based on the two games I've watched, no effort at all because the advertising is unabated during byu games.

    What does that say about byu and independence?????

    Sad that you have been given this forum to find fault with others.