How are the Condo part of the project doing?Are they selling for
what they were designed to sell for or are they sellingfor a discount?
Looks nice. Thank you for adding to the beauty of our wonderful city!
People are critical to the LDS church for spending so much money into this
project. While I think they are overly critical("let's criticize how they
donate their millions!") they are missing the big point. This brings jobs
to people. People will always be critical of the church. Imagine if the church
had just decided to stay out of it? Don't bite the hand that feeds the state
I've always thought that the Church's objective is not to make money with City
Creek but to upgrade the land surrounding Temple Square.The Church
owns the land on which City Creek is built, so it didn't require financing to
purchase the property. Lease and sales revenues will handle construction costs.
In the big picture of things, the Church has served to upgrade Salt Lake City
while at the same time keeping its own interests protected. And it
did so without help from the city. Mayors of large cities all over the country
would do anything to get a private organization to do for their cities what the
LDS Church is doing for Salt Lake City.A good deal for everyone.
Will it have a Wallmart? Cause really .. the majority of residents in this
State are too cheap to shop at a nice shopping mall! I'd guess the church will
be supporting this mall for years. But it will give visitors the impression
that God is favoring Salt Lake City with affluence now won't it.
Ronnie: The church has thousands of employees worldwide. Projects
like City Creek raise capital to pay for salaries, travel, lunch meetings, etc.,
everything that every other business in the nation has to budget for. There is the gospel side to the church, and the business side. Stocking the
Bishop's Storehouse and providing FEMA-type supplies to every world disaster is
not possible from the scraps that people donate as fast offerings. It is
projects like City Creek that make it all possible.
"The economy is showing signs of recovery"?? What signs are those?
From my seat, things look pretty stagnant. Kinda like the big pool of
slow-moving water just before the huge waterfall.
It's a great time to build if you've got the money. Adopting a buy-low,
sell-high mentality will help you, and that's what this project has done.
@RonnieWGood for your Utah economy, with out-of-state tithes?Not
fair for my state's economy.
morpunkt:no tithing funds were used.clarkkentyou're probably
the only person in the country that hasn't shopped at walmart. you must really
be wealthy. sorry your experience in utah is so negative. there are 49 other
states that might make you happier.
@UteAlumniThank for elucidating that.Just one other question. What
funds were used, from which church budget?I need a follow-up.Then
I'll let it rest.
morpunktFrom the article, "Before we started any demolition and
eventually construction, reserves were set aside," Bills said. Those funds,
he noted, were generated by church-affiliated businesses, not tithing donations
from church members. If a person genuinely believes in tithing, that money
is really not ours, but God's. The good news for me is that I really don't worry
about it's use as I totally trust the church to handle it properly. If it isn't
handled properly, then those responsible will be accountable.
I have to admit, the City Creek downtown project appears to be well-done. They
were extremely careful to recycle what they could during the destruction
phase....they recycled stuff I didn't realize you could recycle! They've
thought through so much detail in the design and construction of the new
buildings. There is no question the construction teams awarded the bids for
this job appreciate the timing of this ginormous project--City Creek has helped
Utah hide from much of the national recession!
The church owns farms, cattle ranches, orchards, etc. Those affiliated
businesses earn income and provide food for church welfare and other charity
efforts. I assume money from those businesses was used to fund this project.
@ClarkKentI would be bitter to if I didnt know how to spell Walmart.
morpunktLDS buisness and property holdings began early in church
history. They are not clearly documented, but they can be discovered. Much of
the property was simply settled and claimed when the church moved west. Portions
of property were sold over decades for development and the profits remained in
the general portfolio of holdings. The portfolio is quite substantial and
annually generates a significant amount of money (yes they pay taxes). Some
properties generate income from agriculture, and others (like this mall)
generate income from rent. In addition to agriculture (sugar, peanuts, beans,
almonds...), church owned businesses include restaurants near Temple Square,
BYUtv and 35 radio stations, Deseret Books, Beneficial Life Insurance, and a
shopping district in Hawaii. The LDS church is the largest private land owner in
several states including Florida where they produce more cattle than any other
company in the country. LDS business holdings are a stabilizing force in many
communities. This project, for example, employed thousands during a down
economy. When one considers the entire LDS portfolio, and the amount of time it
has been increasing in value, it is very reasonable that they can pay cash for a
$1.5 billion project.
ClarkKent et al,No way would there be a Walmart at City Creek - just
ask the City Council - Walmarts only belong on 3rd West or farther southwest -
even if Walmart already owned property as it does on Parley's Way, but was
recently prevented from rezoning in order to demolish and rebuild.
I'm a bit confused by the direction of this article. If you project to rent
space for $30 per sq. ft. and the market will only give you $15 per sq. ft.
because you mistimed the market, how is that a success? There is a reason other
commercial developers aren't building right now. The return on investment is
not there. As a member of the church I would prefer the church not make poor
investments such as this.
Regarding morpunkt's commentsNot only were tithing funds not used,
only funds generated by church-affiliated for profit businesses in Utah were
used. The church used funds only from Utah businesses and none from outside of
the state. All of those construction jobs, all of the jobs that will be created
in the shopping center came from funds generated in Utah with 0 debt. Don't you
wish your government was so efficient?So you can sleep well
morpunkt, no funds from church owned businesses in California were used.
What does it matter where the Church got that money? They are doing a good
thing for Utah and the Church at the same time. It's a win-win.If I
was the leader of a large Church, and wanted to invest $1.5 billion, I would
first think of the most Christlike way to spend that money...then I would build
a $1.5 billion mall.I completely agree with the decision. It's the
most profitable way to invest that money, and therefore, the most Christlike
way. Just look at the parable of the talents. The Church isn't burying its
cash, it's investing it like a wise steward. Many people don't
realize how much Jesus taught his followers about building personal wealth, but
that's a huge part of what His Ancient and Restored Gospel is about. Fortunate
for us in Utah, LDS Church leaders do.Do you nay-sayers think Jesus
is going to fill his Kingdom with people who don't invest wisely? Well Jesus
said he won't. Stop being curmudgeons about this mall then!