I think what Mr Shumway proposes is a good idea, but students need at a more
fundamental level surivival skills, and that means they need the hard facts
facing labor (which most of them will be). This is information most likely will
not be provided by any Utah institution of any kind. They need some foundation
in Marxian economics and philosophy.
To get more graduates quickly, the colleges and universities can just do more of
what they have been doing for decades, i.e. lower the graduation requirements to
match the lower entrance requirements.I remember once, talking to the dean
of students at a catholic university in California who bragged about having the
highest standard for admittance in that state "we require a "'C'"
As usual, Mr. Shumway has no clue about the issues. Why does the DN keep
humoring this guy? If he actually knew what was going on he would see that the
real problems are much larger than just a lack of advising. Every day I see
college students drop out of school because a) they have too much debt or b)
they are poorly prepared for college level work. They can't go to school
because, like the rest of US society, they are buried in debt and have to work
full time to pay for their nice new car etc.... They also simply can't handle
the requirements of college work. The K-12 system sends these students forward
with such poor reading, writing and math skills that they have no chance of
success. Go ahead Mr. Shumway, advise away but unless these two BIG issues are
addressed it will have little or no effect.
A higher education doesn't automatically guarantee a better job. There simply
aren't that many jobs to go around. My husband manages a retail store full of
college graduates who can't find a job that pays more than the $8/hr he can
offer. Check the job boards--there aren't lists of jobs requiring
degrees that go unfulfilled; there simply aren't that many good paying jobs
available. I agree with Marxist (although Karl isn't one of my
favorites): people need to learn how to do all kinds of work, and be flexible in
what they'll accept. There are plenty of trades out there that can provide
better jobs than a token degree in many majors. People need to have
their hair cut more frequently than they need a history major.
When you say financial counseling, you're really saying "teach them to get
more government money through grants etc", correct? Fewer students are
paying for their education. They have opted out of work and instead have
learned to depend on us for their education money. If grants, scholarships,
medicaid, and the bishops storehouse went away, you would see two things happen.
One, less kids would be going to school until universities streamlined their
fees to account for not having government money. Tuition would go down. The
price of books would go down. Teachers would learn how to teach using more
simple means. When these things happen, student would have saved enough money
from working to come back to school.
I have a better idea, one that will fill that checkbox. What we should do is
have a certificate program or "degree" program where we look at what
college courses were completed and give them a higher education certificate
based on what they took. That way, we can boost the number of people with
post-secondary degrees or certificates.
"Fewer students are paying for their education. They have opted out of work
and instead have learned to depend on us for their education money"I had a full tuition scholarship and had a job all through school and I
still finished with about $13,000 in student loans (which I realize is not
massive in comparison to most). I never got a grant or "free" money
from "you"/government (other than the subsidization of my loans so I
didn't have to pay interest until after graduation). The reality is that even
with my tuition covered, paying for fees, books, other supplies, food, housing,
gas for my car (that is definitely not nice or new), etc that the cost of going
to college is expensive.Don't you dare call me lazy or say that I
"opt out of work" and depend on you.
"People need to have their hair cut more frequently than they need a
history major."You are exactly right Mom, but how do you live
on this kind of wage?Many people that you deal with daily, work in
jobs that do not provide health care.What is the answer? I know it
is a tough question.Rifleman would say that one should have gotten a
better education. That is certainly one solution, but as noted earlier, many
with a 4 year degree are working for $8 per hour.Health care is a
much bigger issue than most people realize. Very few doctor visits would cost
less than $300 and even minor out-patient surgery will run $10,000 to
$20,000.Most would rather spout political talking points than really
address the situation.Don't sell the problem of health care short.
Re: "Don't sell the problem of health care short."Yeah,
don't do that.See, if we all had "free" health care, we
could all afford to work in the History, English and Sociology
"industries." We wouldn't actually have to do or produce anything,
and we wouldn't have to work hard, like they do at McDonald's or the grocery
store.We'd be free to just sit around and
Preocurd.How about you look at the problem and stop with the ole
"those without healthcare don't produce anything.This is a real
problem. I dont know the answer. But the issue deserves more
consideration than just flippant remarks.
RE: ISRREDI congratulate you. Surely you understand, however, that you
are in the vast minority. There is, however, still that little thing called
scholarship, which I certainly recognize as being more earned, yet still money
given to you and obviously needed.
Re: "This is a real problem."No, it's not. It's a
manufactured crisis liberals demagogue to scare the rubes into voting Democrat.
Nothing more.Most Americans have employer-provided health care. I'm
betting you do. It galls liberals they can't tax it, but that's OK. It works
fairly well.No one is denied needed health care. Not even illegals.
When misfortune smiles on Americans, the system treats them, even if they're
too poor or too irresponsible to have insurance. Then, if they can't pay, the
debt is written off as uncollectible, or in bankruptcy.We pay, of
course, but without laundering it through government.Re: "I
don't know the answer."I do. Leave health care alone. The
system that has evolved in the US is a pretty good system.Evolution
is a liberal god. Their faith seems to flag, though, when it comes to actually
letting evolution work. They've got to tinker, "improve," and,
ultimately, destroy, institutions that have evolved in pretty good form.Unless it advances their other god -- socialism.
Go where the jobs are. If you are LDS try thinking of going somewhere away from
Happy Valley and the Wasatch front.
With no employment. College is the biggest scam in the world. If I would've
known that before I graduated, I would've just dropped out. I'm stuck at a job
that I hate now but an thinking about getting into the Funeral Industry where
there is zero competition and a very high need. If everybody has a
college degree,nobody does. Just think about that.
You call college a scam but college graduates have half the unemployment rate of
the rest of the population.Outside of Utah people get degrees to go
to work. I knew some girls at BYU majoring in Family Studies I think it was but
that's what they want to do for society. So what?
here is the reality folks like it or not the unemployment rate for those without
a degree over 11% the unemployment rate for those with a degree is about 5.4%
thats just the reality we live in.
A another little fact check: nearly 50% of all full-time students and 80% of
part-time students work while in school.