Excellent journalism with real insight by the Globe. The little Kingdom
(stone)seen by Daniel in Daniel ch 2 is growing because, as Daniel
prophecied, "There is a God in Heaven that revealeith secrets, and Daniel
goes on in the seventh chapter giving us more ligtht on the subject by writing,
"and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven shall be given to
the saints of the most high". The little stone becomes a great mountian and
shall stand forever.One of the tasks assigned to the Latter Day
Saints is to preach a restored gospel of Jesus Christ to all the world. that
task is under way headed up by an inspired leadership unequalled in all the
world. All the worlds troubles and ills could be solved, and will be solved
under the inspired leadership of this great organization and those who freely
choose to join in and assist. Of course, because of freedom to choose, there
will always be distractors causing waves.
From the very beginning, we have been an amazingly organized people. The
organization was instituted by the Saviour and it is what has enabled us to
survive and succeed against insurmountable odds. Whatever needs any
member of the Church has, the Church has a program and the "manpower"
to address that need. The ability to execute these programs is based in the
faith and committment of the members. The Lord clearly knows what he is doing.
His work goes forward.
Is it a Church or a business model? One cannot serve both masters.
It's like it's a compliment... that just fosters the "LDS Inc."
WOW! I just read through Carroll's article. Most publications don't have nearly
this much insight into LDS theology, doctrine, and belief, especially from
someone who I assume isn't LDS.Very impressive. I certainly wish
more articles were written with such detail and open-mindedness.
"A business model... made perfectly for the 21st century."You got that right. Just like Amway or any of the other similar business
models that operate on hype and glorify those at the top at the expense of those
masses at the bottom.
LDS is a huge tax-exempt corporation. So yes, the followers have a business
knack. The missions certainly help train young men to not by shy, be go
getters, and tell people what they 'need' to hear but nothing they 'don't need'
to hear. Give them the "milk" before the "meat". That's
called sales.So they learn to be disciplined, sober, go getters with
sales skills. That's fantastic for business. It's a shame their selling dreams
... Their used to be small businesses making the LDS undergarments.
They were private enterprises. New prophecy stated they can only be purchased
through the church. The LDS undergarment industry went under and the Church
@atl134The LDS church and it's business affairs are there to solely
serve God. They are of one purpose.Please ponder that hopefully you
can wrap your mind around it.
@ VankaI am one of those at the bottom, but I just don't see where
those at the top have operated on hype and glory at my expense. Perhaps you
could enlighten me?
"Just like Amway or any of the other similar business models that operate
on hype and glorify those at the top at the expense of those masses at the
bottom."Yeah, you know Vanka, if you count how many penthouses,
second and third homes, how many personal jets, and how much vacation time
President Monson and his other business buddy apostles have, you'll realize how
much a statement like that is utter nonsense.The leaders of this
church do more than you or I do for humanity, with even religious causes
excluded. How these men spend their day is a night and day contrast to how many
others in wealth live.You have mentioned that you have gone to an
LDS Church for 20+ years with your spouse. I would suggest trying to keep an
open mind and avoid assuming something about other human beings. I know about
only some of their responsibilities and how busy they often are and they
certainly do not live at the expense of the members of the church. This work is
designed to uplift everyone.It is a rather disappointing view.
Despite my inability to convince, I hope that can change.
I hate when the LDS church is compared to a business, and its sad to see so many
members willingly accept this comparison. I tried to be a decent, hard-working
missionary, but I'm a terrible salesman. People should accept the gospel
because they are converted, not convinced. We do harm to the sacred nature of
the gospel when we believe if you can sell pest control, you can 'sell' the Book
Re:LValfre | 6:32 p.m. Aug. 21, 2011 "LDS is a huge tax-exempt
corporation."No, that is incorrect. Are you referring to their
tax status in the USA or in other locations throughout the world? In the USA
the LDS has a taxable arm used for example to fund the City Creek Project. The
LDS Church has a not for profitable religious arm that is used for example to
build and operate meeting houses and missionary work.The LDS Church
should be entitled to operate under the same rules as every other church in the
I loved the article in the Boston Globe. I too was amazed that they were more
spot on with LDS doctrines and ideology than most, and they understood the
Church a hundred times better than some who might hail from Chicago or Provo.
That is what being open minded will do for you.What I like in the
Organizational model of the LDS church is there ability to call to action
quicker than any other faith, and quicker than many businesses. The Home and
Visiting Teaching arms of the LDS Church are powerful. Thanks for the article.
Elcapitan, how presumptuous of you. If all the world's ills can and will be
solved by the LDS church, does that mean I am part of the problem as I am not
LDS? I am not saying the LDS church is not a great organization, but there are
plenty of other organizations doing great deeds all over the world.
@joyI was merely trying to state what Richard Saunders did later as
to how comparing the church to a business is meant as a compliment... but with
many that comparison has a negative connotation so it's not entirely good for
the church to be compared in that way.
I loved this paragraph from the piece:"But as a written
document, the Book of Mormon bespeaks the careful editing of a complex range of
prior sources and the keeping of records on family sagas multiplied many times
over. Whether the achievement is regarded as Mormons and Moronis or the unlikely
young Smiths, the Book of Mormon is a coherent narrative which, while relating a
tragic saga, finds redemption precisely in its coherence."Thank
you Mr. Carroll for your observation as a professional writer. I've never
understood why some think that a 23 year old farm hand with a third grade
education could create by himself such a sophisticated, subtle 500 page book in
Either be a Church or a Business..............you can't be both!!!
Some folks above apparantly believe God must exist on the margins. LDS theology
says God and man are partners. That is a lot different from the traditional
thinking of creedal Christianity. One group asks God for inspiration in daily
life and the other thinks of God as the favor grantor in times of trouble.
Whether you believe in LDS theology or not, you have to acknowledge that LDS
leadership is very dedicated and hard working. The top leadership consist of men
who almost all should have long ago retired to a life of relaxation and enjoying
grandchildren. Instead they log very long hours doing something that they
believe helps others.But I do think the City Creek Project
inevitably reinforces the stigma that the Church is a business. That project
will likely cost two to three times more than the Church has spent on
humanitarian efforts in the past ten years. I understand the argument that those
funds came from non-tithing sources but it is difficult to avoid the perception
Re: Honor Code | 6:59 a.m. Aug. 22, 2011 Some of us pray for God to
help the poor .... and then stand back and expect Him to do all the work. The
Mormons ask God to help the poor and then step forward to help Him serve our
fellow brothers and sisters.
Every time we visit Temple Square we're told, with glowing pride, that the
musicians and singers are all volunteer.My father, an accomplished
music professor, responds by saying that we'll know Zion is close when the
church speaks with similar pride about how all the accountants and lawyers in
the administration building are volunteers.
The church is organized and run more like a business now then it was in the
1800's. That is why he is called "president Monson." His main duty is
to manage the church, not to give revelation. You never hear the
"prophet" Joseph Smith being referred to as "president"
Smith. It is a corporation, so it is run like a corporation.
The LDS church does a tremendous amount of good in the world.That
said, it would be interesting to know how much money the church has.Look at any large churches. They have one thing in common.They
all possess and control VAST VAST amounts of wealth.Question. Where
did the money come from, way back when, for the church to start up the "for
profit" side of the business?Had to come from somewhere.
To all who are concerned about (or who even enjoy) the comparison of the church
with business - the issue is simply good organization.The church has
an organization model that works well - even with a predominantly unpaid staff.
It is one that requires relatively strict adherence to basic principles but
leaves the local leaders with generally wide latitude in how they execute.Humans are human in all of their endeavors. So, the principles of good
organization transcend the various types of organization we engage in.
There is a lot to be said for the direct benefits of serving a full time
mission. Young men and women do learn and grow substantially from the
experience. Furthermore, two years of service to others during what is
generally considered to be the most "self absorbed" period of a
person's life helps missionaries clear many hurdles that trip up so many other
young people.the organizational skills taught and nurtured within the
church also do a great deal for it's members.All that being said,
There are as many "Dirt Bag" Mormons as can be found in any other
religion. That is one of the biggest lessons I learned at BYU. unfortunately
for many folks in the church, they learn the lesson the expensive way.
I suppose if you are going to fancy the Church structure as a business model,
then at some point we ought to ask about its products? Let's see, tithing of 10%
of member income annually (following the change that interest = surplus move to
interest = income) in exchange for "full" membership. Members believe
they will go to heaven for paying, or more importantly lose that option if they
don't. So the product is potentially deliverable after death. There is no
financial accountability to those tithe paying members, no stockholders, and no
independent auditing. The Church also holds vast for-profit interests, from
which many Mormons are personally benefited at the expense of others.
Incidentally those business arms are now self-sustaining, but naturally favor
certain entrenched entrepreneurs - and more importantly the Church does not
disclose to its membership who/what those for-profit enterprises are. A Voice of Reason:As for GA lifestyles, Thomas S. Monson, G.B. Hinckley,
and B.K.P., are somewhat anomolies as their entire careers were inside of the
Church. Many, many of the other GA's do live just as you suggest they don't.
Mormon business model: The true Mormon difference, however, lies in what the LDS
church does with that money. Most denominations spend on staff, charity and the
building and maintenance of churches; leaders will invest a certain amount--in
the case of the Evangelical Lutherans, $152 million--as a pension fund, usually
through mutual funds or a conservative stock portfolio. The philosophy is
minimalist, as Lutheran pastor Mark Moller-Gunderson explains: "Our
stewardship is not such that we grow the church through business ventures."
The Mormons are stewards of a different stripe. Their charitable
spending and temple building are prodigious. But where other churches spend most
of what they receive in a given year, the Latter-day Saints employ vast amounts
of money in investments that TIME estimates to be at least $6 billion strong.
Even more unusual, most of this money is not in bonds or stock in other peoples'
companies but is invested directly in church-owned, for-profit concerns, the
largest of which are in agribusiness, media, insurance, travel and real estate.
Deseret Management Corp
Just as any church can be charitable....so can a regular business (e.g. United
Way donations). The LDS Church organization brings in billions annually from its
member donation, sales and from the many companies they are directly a part of.
As with many companies, they put a majority of that money back into the business
through funding missionaries, their training to recruit new members (like Amway
or a MLM), sustaining many radio stations and constructing many new facilities.
With all the new members that are signed up to the church by missionaries each
year, they are given information that is partly correct, but also not the whole
story. It is very similar misleading (although often truthful) advertising in
other businesses. Members will continue to sign up, thinking this religion will
transform their lives and allow them to live forever because they carried out
God's work during their time on Earth. Every business has a hook for their
product! Attendance numbers will remain low because of how the church is
constructed, but in a business it is all about numbers afterall. In the end it
is too much like a business to not be called one.
Not all church enterprises are successful. U&I sugar gone; ditto for
ZCMI;Beneficial Life, bailed out; D-News,radically pruned; and center creek?
According to full article published in the Globe: But the Mormon
achievement almost came to nothing as the issue of polygamy exploded in a
massive recapitulation of the hatred that had been aimed at the saints from the
beginning...Instead, the organization adapted. In 1890, the church
leader received a new revelation, and the end of polygamy was declared...But a
formal capitulation on the issue defined an organizational principle, rooted in
a theological assumption: if God can change, so can Gods people; revelation can
be a mechanism of change, and change can be a matter of survival. The needs of
the organization trumped the ecstatic visions of Smith and Young, and the church
went on to flourish...As it turns out, networking and community can
be seen to have mattered more to this movement than anomalies of creed or
oddities of history. The business ideal and the religious ideal reinforce one
another. Theologians count for less than entrepreneurs, belief for less than
And Christ is my CEO and HR Director.
Vanka: I see you are as caustic and disparaging as ever. Are you that miserable
in real life, too? I hope not, for your sake and for the sake of those who live
and work with you.
More than anything else, the church is a church. It is flattering to us that a
writer would compare us to a successful business model, but to the believers,
the church is the gospel of Jesus Christ, for the benefit of man so he can
return to live with our Heavenly Father. One can trace the business
entities in the church (real estate, media, agriculture, etc.) directly back to
it's stated missions if you wish to take the time. For instance, a growing
church would do well to have a real estate arm that caters to it's specific
needs, that of building new buildings all over the world. Besides, most of the
church assets are tied up in "income-consuming" assets (i.e. chapels
and temples) than in "income-producing" assets, such as businesses,
etc. Not only are the leaders of the church "savvy" as to
business and legal practices, they also regularly adhere to tried and tested
principles such as hard work and honesty (disclaimer, I'm not claiming
perfection for all members/leaders), not to mention inspiration.
It causes one to wonder if this ties in with Utah being a Mormon state and also
being the state with the most commercial and business scams. Is it a part of a
culture conditioning of success and money at any cost.
By the end of my mission I came to feel "dirty" for all the
manipulation I learned doing "the work". It's taken a long time for
me to separate the Gospel from the Suits. The Church is a business no mater how
you look at it and many of its members choose to embody salesmanship over
sainthood - in my experience/opinion.I remember my father once
saying "a Mormon is someone who prays in church on Sunday and preys on his
neighbor the six". I wish that didn't have some truth in it, but I've seen
too many people I know who are dirty businessmen/politicians take sacrament and
attend the Temple. It makes keeping the faith very difficult, but in the end I
try to only worry about me and mine.I for one find the comparison to
The biggest sin isn't in the committing. It is in not doing something to fix it
and learning how to not do it again. We have all seen shady business people who
attend church every Sunday and even hold responsible jobs in the Church. But
they are not the Church. They are just poor souls who can't do it right. Don't
put too much stock in someone just because he is a bishop or stake president.
His feet stink too. Just ask him.
readAbook,All you need is faith in yourself and your family. God's
in your heart, not in a temple. Don't forget that. Be wary of false prophets
and especially wary of man-made institutions that are supposed to represent God.
Jesus didn't wear a suit and tie to church every Sunday ... heck I don't think
he even had a church to go to every Sunday. Yet the culture will lead you to
believe you had to dress a certain way to be worthy for God.God
doesn't need money or tithing. He's all powerful, all knowing. He has no
problem paying his rent! (Joke) Just be a good man, do the right thing, and
heaven awaits us in the end.
@Richard Saunders | 7:27 p.m. Aug. 21, 2011."I hate when the LDS
church is compared to a business, and its sad to see so many members willingly
accept this comparison."Why not? Comparison is a natural tool
used to understand complex ideas or relationships in society. The LDS Church
uses this method appropriately. During his ministry, the Savior
himself used parables (real life stories, analogies, contrasts, and
comparisons)as a teaching method. The common people of his days connected with
his messages readily, BUT weeded out those who were not sincere in their
quests.Just thought you migh want to consider.
"The LDS church and it's business affairs are there to solely serve God.
They are of one purpose."God doesn't need a shopping mall.
Shopping mall are for making money.
@cavetroll | 10:12 p.m. Aug. 21, 2011 SANDY, UT "Elcapitan, how
presumptuous of you. If all the world's ills can and will be solved by the LDS
church, does that mean I am part of the problem as I am not LDS?"You can extraplate anything you want to assume "presumptuous" and
your being a part of the problem, BUT here is the bottom line. The LDS Church
model does solve problems effectively and effeciently worldwide, amongst diverse
cultures, and social economic situations. An attribute that
businesses, governments, and even individuals can live for.
@KitenoaGood point about the Savior using parables and comparisons in his
teaching. I guess what I should state is that while organizationally, you could
see similarities, I don't think it works on a micro level. Most people don't
accept the scriptures or latter-day prophets as part of a cost-benefit analysis,
they do it because it feels right. The client-business relationship is all
about maximizing profit/savings and increasing the bottom line. I know many
ex-missionaries who think that selling security systems will be easy because
they have done a mission. While some of the door-to-door people skills
translate, the goals are completely different. To say that buying a product is
like salvation cheapens the salvation experience. I learned from my own
experience when you start treating people as clientele and customers instead of
brothers and sisters as children of God, you've lost sight of the whole point.
Mormon Business model:Time Magazine gave the following details on Mormon
finances. If it were a corporation, its estimated $5.9 billion in annual gross
income would place it midway through the FORTUNE 500, a little below Union
Carbide and the Paine Webber Group but bigger than Nike and the Gap." (
Time , August 4, 1997, p.52) In 1984 the Quorum Of the Twelve were paid
in the range of $60 to $80 thousand a year for living expenses, excluding
benefits. This does not include any money received by business ventures or
sitting on the board of directors for other companies. Most all General
Authorities of the LDS Church are wealthy businessmen; most have companies whose
income exceeds a million dollars a year. Most General Authorities have bank
account balances in the six digit figure. In addition to the modest salary, the
Prophet and his Apostles are given living arrangements. Thomas S. Monson lives
in a 24000+ square foot condo estimated at a value of $2.8 million. The Prophet
and his Apostles all have 24hr limo service provided by private drivers. The
Prophet has 24hr "secret service" bodyguards who protect him anywhere
Psalms 73: 12 "It is the ungodly who prosper in this world."
re: Richard Saunders | 7:27 p.m. Aug. 21, 2011 "I hate when the
LDS church is compared to a business"Then, don't look at the
entity that endorses your tithing check.
The Church's official response to the Time magazine article mentioned above (I
think in the form of a letter to the editor in a subsequent Time issue, but
definitely as an article in the Church News dated August 2, 1997) indicated the
figures were inaccurate. In the response, the church did not deem it necessary
to discuss it's finances further, and was under no obligation to do so. But, as
an example, the church's response did indicate the 5.9 billion figure was very
inflated.I too have seen LDS people who use questionable
sales/business practices. But by and large, I have also seen countless members
who make a sincere effort to follow Jesus Christ and deal honestly with others.
Also, remember, the whole have no need of a physician, so our judgment must be
very careful and limited.
As far as the general authorities being rich, I've heard some are, some aren't.
But as I understand it, they are generally very capable people who have
dedicated their lives to service. Their talents and abilities are usually quite
high, with many of them having accomplished great things in and out of their
church roles. Yet they have often given up their lucrative professional
positions to serve the Lord. I applaud them for their efforts and sacrifices.
On another note, I would have been surprised and alarmed if
President Monson did not have a bodyguard. I also appreciate the fact that they
have drivers and fly all over the world at the church's expense. That is their
stated mission after all, to bear testimony of Jesus Christ and His gospel
throughout the entire world.
So many of the so called members of the Church who questions where their tithing
goes or want an audit of it really don't understand that once it leaves their
hands it becomes the Lord's money and he dictates how and where that money is to
be spent/used. Since the organization of the Church has been given by
revelation to all prophets and that this organization is perfect but ran by
imperfect men makes it even more a miracle as to how it is done.Just
to clarify one point. No tithing money or donations of such have been used in
the building of the City Creek Mall. The Church owns the property and has
contracted such with none of the donations being used. To think otherwise is
totally foolish on the part of those who do.There are two different
entities here that many don't understand. The part where Church donations go
and the other is the business side of the Church. The Church pays very little
rent and only of necessity. The LDS Church is self-effecient in that the
tithing, donations are used for building chapels, temples, humanitarian aide and
many other things.
The business side buys property and also pays the taxes on those buildings
associated with the business. Yes, pay taxes for the business side of it.
Until you totally understand that the Church side is strickly for the Church and
the business side for the business side. Those members who refuse to understand
this do so because they refuse to try and understand. They feel it is all one
big deal and IT IS NOT.Every six months an audit of all Church funds
is done. Considering the amount of money donated for tithing and fast offerings,
and the amount of buildings built one wonders sometimes how this can be two
separate entities BUT IT IS.Every building built it done so with
cash on the barrel. None of the Church buildings holds a mortgage to it. The
Church has been self-reliant since the early 50s and continues today. Those who
wish to challenge do so as pawns to Satan.
Cavetroll, I completely agree that there are many wonderful people who are not
LDS. I think it is important to realize that the principles of the LDS church
can save the world. Namely, love towards our fellowmen, honesty, obedience to
God's laws, unselfishness, kindness, and many other great attributes that are
shared by many religions. I wish more people- no matter what religion- would let
"their light" of virtue, integrity, and morality shine forth. We can
all be working together for the greater good of ALL of humanity through the
basic principles of Christianity. I love and respect my non-LDS friends. We
might differ on bits of theology, but, together, we have done some great things!
Heavenly Father is often referred to as the greatest scientist. He might also
be referred to as the greatest business man.
Why shouldn't the City Creek development be considered a humanitarian effort?
The project employs many people and in the end it creates jobs for others. Must
humanitarian aid always be in the form of giving something away, or can it not
also be found in providing means for people to earn a living?
@?Heavenly father is the greatest scientist, business man, and
everything else. For these reasons, he has no need for money! So why do the
major religions want money? Are they working for god or their own man-made
organization/creation? Are we simply doing as we've been told to do instead of
thinking for ourselves?
Lvalfre: Check Malachi 3:10-12. As I see it, tithing is a commandment with a
promise. The Lord says something to the effect of prove me, try it and see for
funny stuff. Go back to the years 1844 - 1847. The church had just had its
prophet murdered by a mod and most thought that this tiny church would just fade
away... but that didn't happen. The leaders were humble men with no great skills
especially in economics but what they did have was a firm belief in God and the
laws that God had set forth (tithing). The law of tithing was followed with
faith to the present day and that is why you see the incredible business model
that has produced great wealth with no debt while still providing for the poor
and needy..in and out of the church. People scratch their heads - how could this
happen? Well in the eyes of the world it is impossible but with God nothing is
Back in the early 1960s, when Elder Harold B. Lee and his Correlation committee
were refurbishing the organizational side of the Church, they intentionally
adopted corporate management practices as part of the do-over. Anyone who has
worked in the corporate side of the LDS Church can tell you stories about how
corporate values create serious organizational problems in what is supposed to
be an ecclesiastical entity. The two just don't mix well.If you look
carefully at LDS scripture, you find that in the Book of Mormon, one of the
groups that repeatedly causes problems for Nephite society is the merchants.
Also, among the Nephites, whenever the church is established, one requirement is
economic equality. Same with the New Testament church. Same in the book of
Moses, with Enoch's people. Same in the D&C. The Lord repeatedly insists
that there be no rich or poor, that his people should be equal in earthly
things. Based on this, I would say that the Lord is not very pro-business, at
least not as we define business in modern America. Seems to me that the parallel
between the LDS Church and modern business is both obvious and unfortunate.
Bill:There are two seperate entities, tithing funds are kept
seperate, etc? You do understand that this notion of seperate entities is
nothing more than a legal contrivance for the purpose of managing taxes,
liability, etc. At the end of the day, when we consider only
"entities" that have a pulse, we are talking about all of the same
people, ie, your Prophets and Apostles. Secondly, keeping the commodities of
money seperate, is again only an accounting contrivance. It's all money, and
your Church collects a tithe from you for spiritual purposes, and then competes
against you in the open market. Do you think they are better positioned to do
that with or without your money?Note to DN moderators:I
am resubmitting this comment as there is nothing wrong with the content. The
Church does maintain for-profit business interests which naturally compete in
the open market. This is not an opinion, it is an undisputable fact. Of
necessity those business interests will compete against the business endeavors
of tithe paying Mormons who offer similar products and services. Technically the
financial management falls under the duties of the Presiding Bishop, who reports
to the FP and Q12.
All you folks saying "be a church or business, not both", are you
telling us that a church has to be poorly run to really be a church? You have
to remember who is running this church; God. He has the advantage in knowing
the future and is an infinately better organizer than anyone else. Of course
this church is going to be well run.
@PatriotFunny thing, but the history of the law of tithing shows
that it has been anything but consistent. For the past 110 years, we have
practiced this law pretty much as we do now, but before that, all sorts of
approaches were tried. In fact, initially, the law of tithing wasn't a
"replacement" for the law of consecration, as we mistakenly believe
today. It was just another attempt to implement the law of consecration. If you
read D&C 119, you'll find that we do not live it today as it is set forth by
the Lord. Lorenzo Snow finally gave up on the most important element of the law
of tithing because the people simply would not live it. Mormons, like pretty
much everyone else, are quite averse to the idea of equality. Tithing, as it is
practiced today, has more in common with Utah's new flat tax than it does with
the law described in D&C 119. It increases inequality rather than promoting
@patriot,"how could this happen? Well in the eyes of the world
it is impossible but with God nothing is impossible. " - Very simple. The
followers tithed for years and the Church invested in other real business
ventures and thus have made a lot of money. One example: Undergarments, which
must be worn, were once made by many small private owned businesses. New
revelation stated that undergarments can only be purchased through the church.
Those businesses went under and the LDS church monopolized it.@Mormoncowboy,I never really get your comments since your user
name leaves me to believe your LDS, and yet you always seem to point out the
churche's flaws. But your statement "The Church does maintain for-profit
business interests which naturally compete in the open market. This is not an
opinion, it is an undisputable fact." is absolutely true. I'm not sure
why the mod's denied that comment originally, I often have to fight to have mine
posted when there's nothing wrong with them either.@justaguy,"You have to remember who is running this church; God." He may
be running it but he's doing so through a prophet who is a man.
Brahmabull If you read many original sources from Joseph Smiths time you
will find he was often called President J or President Joseph, especially in
Read "Approaching Zion" by Hugh Nibley and begin to understand why
comparing the church to a business is terrifying. The danger can be simply
expressed in the fear that the gospel may equated with "profits"
instead of prophets (and the already prevalent myth that possessing a LOT of
stuff is evidence of being righteous - when the scriptures make it clear that
accumulating more than you need is the way of Babylon not Zion.
@ terra nova | 10:39 p.m. Aug. 23, 2011 Look at the way the
hierarchy is structred. Q12 = Corporate board on down to the "grass
roots" level.Its a reasonable analogy.
As a corporate trainer, I still try to teach and train executives by the spirit.
I believe it was Brigham Young who said once that we're not supposed to even
teach the alphabet if we can't do it by the spirit of the Lord. I've had my
tongue loosed from time to time during presentations in corporate training
sessions. It's a marvelous thing to participate in.