Religious cyber bullying by those who don't like the truth coming out? This is
foolish and will only backfire on the LDS Church. You can't hide history forever
and the truth forever.
There are probably several reasons why the LDS Church website is the most
visited of any faith, I would imagine that the vast amount of talks, scripture,
and family resources alone make up a good chunk of that.As to the
point about the heavy focus on image. I think there are really two primary
reasons for such efforts. In my opinion, these serve simply as a missionary tool
and as a place where people can get an accurate representation of the Church.From the paradigm that the LDS Church is THE true Church of God, both of
these things only serve to do good in the world. I personally have been very
happy with the efforts the Church has put into online resources and image.
I've been very displeased to see how much effort the church puts into marketing
and PR work. The truth of God shouldn't need public relations ...
@Dektol You said - "Religious cyber bullying by those who don't
like the truth coming out?"Did I miss something? Where in this
article or in the Washington Posts' article is cyber bullying by the LDS Church
mentioned?Are you suggesting that anything on the Internet written
or spoken by the LDS Church or its members is cyberbullying? Perhaps
you feel LDS Church members have no right to express their feelings about life
or their faith online. Sorry, but last time I checked the U.S. Constitution, it
didn't say, "Freedom of speech for everyone except Mormons." You said - "This is foolish and will only backfire on the LDS
Church. You can't hide history forever and the truth forever."What exactly is going to backfire? The fact that LDS critics have the same
access to the Internet as does LDS Church members? You seem to
imply, as many others have, that before the Internet came along, the LDS Church
never faced criticism or attack, that no one before has ever taken a critical
look at its history or doctrine. The LDS Chcuh has always had
critics and always will. Sorry, but we're ready for the attack.
So Dektol, why don't you enlighten us as to the truth, or has your points been
put to rest so many times that no one else pays any attention to them but you.
to: Dektol | 4:20 p.m. Aug. 21, 2011"This is foolish and will
only backfire on the LDS Church. You can't hide history forever and the truth
forever."Sorry to burst your bubble but the LDS church doesn't
hide what you call "the truth". I have read enough post on here by
anti-LDS submitters to know that what they call "the truth" is often
out of context, is someone's personal views, or is outright false. I know my
church history pretty well and nothing I have ever read from reliable sources
has shaken my faith. In the past people have made mistakes and will continue to
make mistakes because no one is perfect. However, after 180+ years the Church
moves forward changing lives and bringing people to Christ. Following the
restored gospel will always be a blessing in the lives of those who do live it,
in this life and the life to come.
I would say 1 in 100+ websites out there is pro LDS. I can't remember how many
times on my mission we would have someone interested in learning about the
church, but then after we left they would search the internet and never wanted
us to come back. People go online to learn and I don't think we've scratched
the surface of what needs to be done to get our message out there.
@LValfre 6:24You said - "I've been very displeased to see how
much effort the church puts into marketing and PR work."Most
critics of the LDS Church agree with you. They seriously dislike any effort the
LDS Church makes in portraying its members as normal, every day, hard working
people who have good days and bad days like everyone else. From the
critics point of view, anything outside of portraying LDS people as mindless,
heartless, Stepford wife robots is totally unacceptable. You said -
"The truth of God shouldn't need public relations."In
other words, if someone creates a video or website that distorts the lifestyle
and teachings of LDS Church members, the church should just ignore it and make
no attempt to correct misinformation. To be more specific, critics of the LDS
Church should have final say on everything having to do with the LDS Church.Sorry, but Satan has controlled the Internet long enough. Now, it's our turn.
LValfre,The truth of God doesn't need PR, we do. If you understood
LDS theology and doctrine I believe you'd understand why that claim is
incongruous with other LDS beliefs.We don't believe that God will do
things for us that we can do for ourselves. Example:"God, please do my gardening, write my thesis, and shine my shoes for
me."And if you expect the LDS church to watch people slander
its name and let it happen because that shouldn't stop the church, then you
forget something essential to that process. Why would God allow one side to
attack the other, and not allow the other to defend itself? There is no logic in
that. The point? The Church has PR 1- to spread the Gospel and 2- to accurately
represent the church.But according to your logic, the church
shouldn't need missionaries either. In fact, we don't need the Book of Mormon,
or the Bible. No one needs the Bible... cause why would God need those
things?Again, it's not God that needs it, it's us that have needs.
Ho cares what the Washington ComPost says about anything?
Truth be told,(and contrary to Conservative thought) -- Mormons have
always been "Progressive".
Don't you just love how the critics continue to think that the truth is hidden
from the general membership. Even those so called proclaimed members continue
to say this when the truth has been given over and over again.The
problem is that the truth is only the way they see. Until the Lord returns the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints will continue to have is opposition.
However, once the Lord returns all of this will be dispelled as this is the
Lord's Church. He has declared it as such as a whole, not individual people.
Our missionaries continue to convert and bring thousands to Christ each year.
Those that leave, are leaving more to the fact they are not willing to change
their hearts or their minds to the truthfullness of the restored Gospel.
Nothing of the mistakes of man makes Joseph, Brigham or others less of a
prophet. It just proves they are men like us who are tempted, decieved by
Satan. Those who fight against this Church are pawns of Satan.
In response to the usual critics, the reason the Church makes such an effort to
control their own message is because it is nearly the only church that is
fighting a whole cottage industry out on the web devoted to spreading
misinformation about the LDS church. That requires a matching response.I have been very impressed with how the churchs efforts have often
resulted in LDS church sponsored website sources of information come up before
the miriads of anti Mormon sites out there. Years ago, you would only find the
anti stuff and never get to the churchs real position.
The church has the best PR maching of any corporation out there. They're up on
their Marshall Macluhan.
Its always fun to see our friends from Powell and Chicago and Provo (he will
post soon) on the comment thread here. Of course they are going raving mad
seeing all the positive press come out about this Church. This is by far the
best year ever for the internet search engines leading people to better
understand a religion that has been maligned and spoken against for years. The
problem is, they can't keep us down. No matter how much they want the Gospel of
Jesus Christ to fail, it rises and grows. Infuriating, I would think, if you
were against this work.Why does it remind me so much of that
Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, who told the persecutors of the
early Christians and of Christ that if their religion "be of men it will
come to nought:But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it;"Well, don't be the last to know. Read the Book of Mormon for yourself,
all of it. Ask God if it is true. I did. You can too. God bless.
Bill in Nebraska, well said!Seattleview, I agreeDN
Subscriber, I care.-------LDS Liberal, you are right.
The church is very liberal and progressive. Where you and I differ is that the
original forms of liberal thought have been perverted into meaning something
else.Liberalism holds that all should be free so long as they do not
infringe such freedom among others.The Church supports this.However, with things like prop 8 and other debates, it is not us who
take away freedom from others but others who calculate to take freedom of
religion.See, liberal means something, and that isn't the U.S.
understanding of the words 'far left' but a political philosophy. The church
adheres to it perfectly. Modern day 'far left liberals' in America do not adhere
to the original design of the word. See the difference? I'm not trying to simply
fight you. Please keep in mind I genuinely believe this. I didn't understand it
until a great deal of education on philosophical thought, political theory, etc.
But I assure you, it's true.
As By Common Consent points out, "Theres plenty of hyperbole in the article
(have we really 'infused SEO into [our] culture?' Cmon), some sloppy sourcing
(of course a Protestant digital strategist says Mormons are taking over the
web), and a misuse of the word 'bloggernacle.'"
Dektol,"Cyber bullying by those who don't like the truth coming
out?"I have found the truth, and the truth is making me free.
Please don't lecture Mormons about what we believe or don't believe.
Believe it or not, I have actually started to read some anti-Mormon books. I
can't get through more than a few pages because of inaccuracies or out-right
misrepresentations of my faith. Let's say that you read a book on US history
that says that "Theodore Roosevelt ended WW2 by dropping the atomic bomb on
Tokyo in 1946." What would your opinion be of that book? Would you trust
anything else that that book had to say about any topic? If you read something
that misses obvious factual errors, would you trust any analysis? Sometimes when
I read an anti-LDS book I'll find something that makes me roll my eyes and I'll
put it down.By the way, Mormons are discouraged from purchasing
anti-Mormon books not necessarily reading them. There are people who make their
livelihood writing anti-LDS books, and not buying the books doesn't encourage
them to make more.
LValfre,Is Public Relations inherently evil? While I lived in
Vienna, I met the LDS PR person over Eastern Europe. He said his
"favorite" article was a Russian newspaper photograph that showed a
disheveled looking young man in a white shirt and a loose tie standing at a bar
looking downcast into his beer. The female bartender was wearing just a bra.
The caption below said, "Mormon missionary after long day preaching, being
served a beer by a Mormon Sister". He kept an ever-changing file of the
"top ten" worst articles.Now, in theory people take the
information given to them in the newspaper at face value. After reading the
newspaper, what would the good people of Russia think of the Americans preaching
about alcohol and chastity? What would government officials think when LDS
apostles come asking for more Missionary Visas? Do we not have a right to state
Christ said "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see
your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."With good public relations, we can work with like minded people to accomplish
greater works. Others won't be afraid to speak to members or missionaries to
find out what we truly believe. Or get building permits for chapels or temples.
Some people cast Mormons as recluses, or hostile to people who are not Mormons
when in fact we are commanded to be the opposite. With modern technology WE can
directly communicate OUR message, unfiltered or modified by those who don't have
our best interests in mind. May we have your permision LValfre? Pretty please?
tyndale1, thank you for your testimony. I was raised in this faith, but no
one of our faith can just say they are a "Mormon" sooner or later
someone will challenge your faith. There is no floating along. Wether just
meeting the missionaries or born in the covenant, every member must gain their
own testimony. There are those hate mongers who think that we don't know
what we beleive. I KNOW IT. I, like many of our faith have read the personal
histories, read and studied the past teachings. Here is the thing, I have
gained a testimony of the Book of Mormon. I know it is the word of God. The book
is not perfect, the Prophet who translated it was not perfect, neither is the
Bible, or any of our Church Leaders since the beginning. I have had the
spirit open my understanding and I will die before I will deny the truthfulness
of The Book of Mormon.
I do take issue with the part of the story that says that non-LDS polygamous
people aren't Mormons. They absolutly are Mormons. They aren't LDS. However, LDS
members aren't the only ones who can call themselves Mormon. Mormonism is an
entire branch of Christianity, however contentious that statment may be. It
includes LDS people, FLDS people, RLDS people, and many others. I'm sorry, but a
specific church cannot control a word. The Roman Catholic church cannot control
the fact that plenty of people from other faiths, mine included, consider and
are themselves "Catholic". I can guarantee you that every FLDS person
considers him or herself "Mormon". The word "Mormon" refers
to all those who follow the teachings of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.
Re: LValfre | 6:24 p.m. Aug. 21, 2011 "I've been very displeased to
see how much effort the church puts into marketing and PR work"The LDS Church continues its worldwide growth at an ever expanding rate, and
stands like a beacon on a hill. Why should anyone care if people go to the
source to seek information about the LDS Church. They certainly won't hear the
truth from those who have apostized and have a biased opinion against the LDS
Church.I've never understood why some people expend so much effort
anyone would hate a particular religion. If I disagree
One of the reasons the LDS church has such good "PR" websites, is due
to the highly skilled membership of the church. Mormons are educated, and even
pioneered many of the technologies that are used in the development of the
Cloud, the internet, modern communications, and web-programming.LDS
believe that technology is a blessing from God, if we make it so. We don't just
decry pornography and the proliferation of evils throughout media. We believe in
using it to accomplish much good. The web is about communication,
and most critics of the LDS church don't understand that many of the problems
they may have with Mormons is due to a failure to communicate and sheer
ignorance as to the depth of the LDS perspective. IOW, We believe in
intelligent communication. Heated political exchanges where we come
out firmly against a political movement, seldom have a unidimensional mindset.
Our stance on abortion, gay rights, taxes, social justice, immigration, or
whatever, is deep and diverse--though our shortsighted opposition may paint us
with a single color. Thus our desire to communicate our position
only increases. Our ability to change perception is as simple as
telling the truth. So we do.
When I was little, I would see the "starving children" ads on TV and
ask my mom if we could sponsor a child.She would reply saying that
we should give to the church because they weren't spending the donations on ads.
She told me how much a TV spot could cost and to imagine how that much money
could help those kids. It seems very ironic now. Why do we care so
much what people think of us? Why don't we simply let our actions speak instead
of our PR group?
The Church's efforts to tell its own story really rankles some folks. The
Church's detractors have the idea that THEY get to define us while we must sit
back and just accept their misrepresentations and distortions.
Julep asks a good question: Why do we care so much about what other people think
of us? Our theology tells us this life on earth is a continuation of the war in
heaven when Satan and his followers were kicked out. That didn't put an end to
the battles though. It just moved the battle field from there to here. Part of our assignment is continuing the fight. That means helping our
brothers and sisters to a point where they can find out for themselves about
what we say is true. Satan is putting in over time to prevent that and he is
doing a fine job with his use of media. We have to fight back with all the tools
God has given us and that means using PR, the internet and media.
Why is the church on the internet?"And he said unto them, Go ye
into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."In
this day and age, to not be on the internet would be to leave a large part of
that mission unfulfilled.
Mormons always progressive? That's funny. Slavery, women's rights, gay
marriage...they have always been way out front on those.I think it's
smart to try to control the message. I don't think it's a question of morality
nor do I believe that Satan has controlled the internet. I don't believe in the
boogeyman.As for hiding truth, I think it is clear that the LDS
church would perfer that everyone rely only on what they say about their church
and ignore many historical accounts - Joseph Smith's conviction as a conman and
his fascination with the occult. They'd prefer not to discuss slavery, blacks in
the priesthood, polygamy in heaven, dna vs faith, or any variety of other
topics. This is not unique to the LDS church. Most religions don't
want to be looked at in a scholarly way. But it's not just history that they
need to guard themselves against. There are unfounded claims based on simple
hatred and ignorance.In the end, you can't rely on what a group says
about itself for an accurate portrayal of anything. You have to analyze the
official story with outsider accounts to draw an informed opinion.
Type anti-Mormon into google and see how many hits you get. We are smart to get
our own story out.
to: speed66 | 8:52 a.m. Aug. 22, 2011Once again you are trying to
use the events of history and all the thoughts and actions of the individuals
involved, whether they be accurate accounts or false, to state that the church
is a fraud. I am shocked at some of the stuff I have read in the Bible and Book
of Mormon. How could anyone have done that.? ie aspects of the Law of Moses,
wars, etc. This is from my 2011 perspective. I have no right to judge the
actions of those from the past that I deem "unchristian"The Book of Mormon has been translated from the English version into many
other languages, some of which are very difficult to learn. During my 2 years
in Japan I saw humble, yet educated people join the church based on the witness
of the Holy Ghost and the strong feelings they had inside. You see, the HG
testifies of truth and all that is good and right. I am certainly not going to
waste my time reading personal views from history, accurate or not. I will
stick with the gospel truths.
Whatever. If the Church wants to spend tithing dollars trying to make sure that
no other view of Mormonism is allow to stand that's their right. I do find it
funny that when people propose alternate views of the Church or are in any way
critical of the faith they're are anti-Mormon. When the Church presents and
alternate view to that they are 'powerful' and 'savvy' with PR and media. Isn't
it just being anti-Mormon critic.In the end I think the LDS attempt
to control the information only backfires. When those who are suckled for years
at the teat of the Church finally learn real early LDS history and doctrine, the
selective teaching feels even more like betrayal. If the Church wants to not be
labeled as a cult then it would be good to avoid 'culty' activities.
Thank you, LDS REVELATIONS, for your insight. I know there are a lot of
individuals, like yourself, who want to be good decent individuals and who think
the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is off course. You have good company. Even
Saul of Tarsus as well as the leaders of the Jews thought they did God a service
by persecuting the gospel of Jesus Church in their day, lest many might believe.
But then one day Saul realized, through divine intervention with man, a thing
most people deny possibility to today, that he, Saul, was the one deceived. As you learn more about the LDS faith you will come to realize what the
Church teaches. I would take you back to the beginning. Read the Book of Mormon
in its entirety and ask your Father in Heaven if it is true. If you have left
the faith because of those pointing from the great and spacious building, come
back. There is so much good here, we are blessing the world in so many ways, you
don't want to miss out.
LDS Revelations,Who said anything about no other view of the church
being allowed to stand? Simply that the church is presenting its own views and
doing so effectively. I am certainly not against those of any faith doing the
same for themselves.I have some familiarity with "real LDS
history and doctrine". My simple conclusion is that, if we go to church,
we are destined to be accompanied there by imperfect folks. Further, while we
are there, we are destined to be lead by imperfect folks.It was true
in the time of the Old Testament. And, save during Christ's personal ministry
on the earth, it was true in the time of the New Testament. Prophets, Apostles,
Patriarchs, Judges and others - great men and women though they certainly were -
all save Christ were imperfect.It did not prevent God from calling
them and using them then or now. I believe Thomas S. Monson to be prophet - a
great and good man. But not a perfect one.Leaders do not have to be
perfect to be worthy of their calling. Thankfully, this means that I do not
have to be perfect to be counted among the followers of Christ.
Mint Julip | 7:31 a.m. Aug. 22, 2011Re: "I would see the
"starving children" ads on TV"Perhaps your mother was
wiser than you give her credit for. Some Children Charity CEOs earn nearly $500
thousand a year. When I give donations to the LDS Church I know my money goes
where it is intended.
@Kevin - I'm not sure what you mean by "Once again" or "accurate
or false". You may find it unsporting of me to rely on historical records
or for holding someone accountable for their past positions...especially someone
claims their position was handed to them by god. One might ask how reasonable it
is to believe that god changed his mind about items as important as slavery,
blacks and women? I think it is weak intellectual truth to rely on the
"feelings" of people in place of historical fact. Ignoring history,
science and mathematics may make believing in the bible and religions a lot
easier but that speaks far more to shortcoming of religion than anything else.
I agree that the bible is a "tough read" but necessary
particularly if someone is going to rely on a text as the basis of their belief.
They read it and question it thoroughly. Doing so might prompt people to ask the
tough questions. Through those questions they may find, to their surprise, huge
intellectual and rational gaps that may lead them to seek answers elsewhere.
They may even become desperate enough to seek refuge in logic and reason...but
Bill in Nebraska said, Nothing of the mistakes of man makes Joseph, Brigham or
others less of a prophet? That seer his name shall be called
Joseph(Smith), and it shall be after the name of his father. (JST 50:33)? JS
prophecy about himself.A Marvelous work and wonder.((Isaiah 29:14
JST)But the book(BoM) shall be delivered unto a man(JS).verse 16by the power of
Christverse 17,three witnesses, verse 19,many witnesses as seemeth good. Both
not found in Greek Septuagint(Apostles Bible) ,Dead Sea(Isaiah) Scrolls.Brigham Young, Can you make a Christian of a Jew? I tell you Nay, If a
Jew comes into this church ,and the blood honestly professes to be a Saint, a
follower of Christ, and if the blood of Judah is in his veins, he will
apostatize.(JoD V. 2 p. 142)
speed66I would like to point out a few things about your argument.
First lets look at God. We believe he is all powerfull and all knowing. Who
but Him would know the way back to Him. I think what tyndale1 was suggesting is
that you ask Him, and not rely on your own understanding. Who better than Him
to tell you. Hence tyndale1's suggesting read the BOM front to back, then take
up the challenge, and ask God the all knowing if it is true or not. Very
simple.Second I would like to point out how ficcle our logic really
is. I took a personal ethics class in college, and it amazed me the things I
could justify using my logic and reason. If I don't have a way to guide my way,
it becomes easy to use logic and go whichever way I please.
The reason the church can spend this much money on PR campaigns like "I'm a
Mormon" and the others is because we have a volunteer clergy. Tithing
money is used only to advance the growth in the church. Most, if not all,
missionaries pay for their own missions by themselves, or with the help of their
family or home ward.I personally have no issues with the church
spending this amount or even more on PR. If it brings people to the churches
websites to find out what we believe from actual, active members and see the
church's official doctrine on whatever issue they want to learn more about...all
I can say is GREAT! Keep up the good work, LDS PR Department.
@LDS Revelations 11:36You said - "If the Church wants to spend
tithing dollars trying to make sure that no other view of Mormonism is allow to
stand that's their right."With all due respect, this comment is
more of the typical baloney LDS Church have thrown in their face on a constant
basis. Nowhere in this article or in any of the articles cited is any claim made
the LDS Church is trying to censor the Internet. This is a flat out distortion.
You said - "I do find it funny that when people propose
alternate views of the Church or are in any way critical of the faith they're
are anti-Mormon."You first comment should answer this question
pretty easily. LDS people have no problem discussing doctrine or history, but
when you flat out make stuff up, why should we discuss that?
If one believes that the marvelous technology available to us today can be used
for good or evil, then why not choose good? Why not flood the internet with
good? To do otherwise would be to yield the internet to Satan.
Re: LDS Revelations | 11:36 a.m. Aug. 22, 2011"trying to make sure
that no other view of Mormonism is allow to stand"How does the
LDS web sites prevent other views from being presented? Your comment makes it
appear as though those who oppose the Church have somehow been hamstrung.They have found that those who rail against the Church lead those who
seek the truth to investigate it. In a word ... they bring the Church free
"@bricha,That brings up a question I ponder. If LDS members
pray and ask if the church is true and God speaks to them and tells them it is
... why are you following a prophet? You can already talk to God, just let him
guide you. Makes no sense."
@Dektol | 4:20 p.m. Aug. 21, 2011 "Religious cyber bullying by those
who don't like the truth coming out? This is foolish and will only backfire on
the LDS Church. You can't hide history forever and the truth forever."Maybe you would like to enlighten us on "the truth coming
out", and how that is "religious cyber bullying"? "You can't hide history forever and the truth forever."
LValfre, 5:01 pm,Aug.22,2011When God speaks (reveals) to an
individual person, that message is for that person only. When God speaks to the
Mormon Prophet it is a message for the whole world. He (God) will not reveal to
a non-Prophet, a message for the whole world. That is why we (the
whole world) need a Prophet.
American man,How can you decipher between who's the prophet? What
if you're the prophet? Who gets to pick?
To LValfre: Either you haven't been paying attention or you don't want to. WE
DON'T PICK THE PROPHET. WE SUSTAIN HIM AS SUCH. The Prophet/President of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is picked by no one else but Jesus
Christ of which the Church bears his name. He has called him just as he called
Moses, Isaac, Abraham, Isaiah, Peter, James and John. Man didn't call any of
them to be a prophet of God. Secondly, our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ
will REVEAL nothing to man pertaining to the entire world except he do it
through his PROPHET. As others have tried to teach you that each of us receive
revelation for ourselves but NOT for the entire Church/World. That goes only
through the Lord's chosen mouth piece, in this case Thomas Spencer Monson.
There are 15 Prophet, Seers and Revelators upon the Earth at one time. However,
only one of those 15 is allowed to speak for the Lord as his mouthpiece. The
others receive revelation pertaining to their calling as special witnesses of
Jesus Christ. If all spoke with a different direction for us then there would
be no order.
LValfre,First, a prophet has to declare that he or she is a prophet.
Then that prophet-claimant will probably have a message from God. As a child of
God you have the right to ask God if the prophet-claimant has the authority to
act in God's behalf. The authority to act in God's behalf by speaking for God
and entering into binding contracts must be verified by God Himself. You see,
the power to talk to Father is given to all of us. Without this verification
the messages a prophet brings are just stories. With the verification it
breathes faith and purpose and redemption. God will talk to you if you ask Him,
and if you are willing to do what He asks.So, while there is only
one Prophet one earth at any one time who has all the authority from both our
Father and our Brother, we can (and God desires us to) be little prophets, able
to speak to Him about ourselves and our families. With faith, persistence, and
a willingness to change, you can have an answer. I have, and I'm a jerk, the
lowest of all the Mormons. But I'm trying :)
I think it is sad that those who vehemently oppose the LDS church, and do so on
these DeseretNews posts, are so scattered in their thoughts. You all need to get
together and figure out a united strategy so you aren't disproving each other.
One person says Sydney Rigdon secretly wrote the Book of Mormon four years
before he met Joseph Smith and then Sharrona here says Joseph Smith wrote it
himself to testify of himself. Pick a story and stick with it. Then maybe
someone will take you seriously. And try to find a new Internet site to pick
your jabs from. Your same old ones are getting tiring. Try searching LDS.org or
Mormon.org. There you will find yet another possibility for the Book of Mormon.
It says it came from ancient prophets of God and that Joseph Smith merely
translated it by the gift and power of God. That is so much more believable
than that a 23 yr old with little education wrote it. I hope that helps. I ldo
ike the suggestion that you try reading the book. That might help.
LValfre, I have an honest question for you.How would you like if a
bombardment of anti-LDS commenters fought your religious views all day in a
venue published by your religion, etc. I think you'd feel differently about
wasting time fighting people who clearly will not change our minds.Please understand, I mean nothing rude to you... I simply expect such a civil
attitude from you, by stopping the constant fighting of the beliefs of others,
at least in such a venue.
In April, I was at an Oklahoma City political lunch, when a former pastor out of
Houston made a cheap shot, referencing the LDS Church as a cult, not knowing
this strong, conservative and overwhelmingly Baptist crowd (between 150-200),
had only ONE Latter-day Saint sitting at one of its tables, and not knowing
everyone there had this LDS guys back.On hearing his remarks, I
loudly objected to his reference by saying, Watch your words carefully, sir!. I
did this in defense of my faith, for while very much imperfect, I am indeed, a
practicing Mormon, as Ive lived by these truths my entire adult life:When a man makes fun of and/or ridicules the faith of another, he makes fun of
and ridicules all religions, particularly his own, as in doing so, he shows his
own lack of faith as well as his infidelity to beliefs he has covenanted to hold
dear and sacred both to himself and to his Maker; that, and one need never
apologize for the truth; for it will always stand on its own.That
man has been told he will not be invited back.
What a silly article. Why do we need someone to rehash for us what it says in
Speedy66: How are outsider accounts of a group supposed to portray an accurate
portrayal of that group? Why shouldn't a group be able to tell their own story
Bill in Nebraska, There are 15 Prophet, Seers and Revelators upon the Earth at
one time???The 28th chapter of 3rd Nephi says there are 3 disciples still
around preaching the true gospel of Christ, they are to remain alive until the
coming of the Lord. (D&C 7) says the Apostle John is alive somewhere on the
earth.Bill again, Those who wish to challenge do so as pawns to
Satan. The devil is a spirit son of God(Mormon Doctrine p. 192).Genesis
3:15, Between thy seed and Her* seed and he shall bruise thy head and thou shalt
bruise his heel. Fulfilled in Galatians 4:4,But when the fullness of time was
come. God sent forth His son made of a woman ,made under the law(A Jewish
man).*Her seed(Marys seed).
@Red Headed Stranger,"First, a prophet has to declare that he
or she is a prophet." - So If I pray and hear back I can declare myself a
prophet. Thus we declare ourselves prophets. So anybody can be a prophet, we
just have to gather followers, right?@sharrona,I didn't
understand the 15 prophets, seers, and revelators either. But there are three
disciples still preaching including the Apostle John still alive? I thought
there was just one LDS prophet alive at any time and that every other prophet on
earth was false. Am I mistaken?
To LValfre: The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and the First Presidency are all
prophets, seers and revelators (15 men). As for John and the three Nephites
were said to NEVER TASTE DEATH and that they would see the second coming of the
Lord. Now does this mean they are actually alive is really up to
interpretation. I believe they have been transformed and thus roam the earth
preparing others to be converted to the ONLY TRUE AND LIVING CHURCH ON EARTH.
Have I been administered to? No, but I know others who have stated they have.
Each is very adamant about this. Does it matter to me? No! Is it important to
my salvation? No! What is important is that I and many like me are striving to
be the best they can be. After all it is by the grace of Jesus Christ that each
is saved, after all that we can do. After all we can do reflects to obeying the
commandments as best we can. To listening and following as best we can to the
counsel and instruction of those chosen by the Lord. In the end it will matter
what type of life we lead.
Bill in Nebraska said ,AS for (the Apostle) John. (D&C 7).Because of
this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But
Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to
remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"(John 21:23 NIV). JS
misunderstood the tricky KJV word order, Saint John would die.Bill
said, After all it is by the grace of Jesus Christ that each is saved, after all
that we can do or God helps those who help themselves, Wrong. The Bible
teaches, For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this is not
from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.
For we are Gods handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God
prepared in ADVANCE for us to do. (Ephesians (2: 8-10). It does not,
therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.(Romans 9:16)
When shared by members of a group, faith strongly supports that groups internal
cohesion. It strengthens the groups capacity to to cope with the challenges life
brings. From the outside, as a cynical observer might see it, faith is an
undertaking to suspend ones critical faculties as far as certain specified basic
propositions are concerned; it is a kind of voluntary suspension of thinking by
refusing to consider the validity of other information. The true believer will
never let himself admit, even to himself, that he has been beaten in an argument
about the propositions he believes in. Many people still need that sense of
rootedness and direction and purpose faith brings. The LDS Church uses the
internet to spread its version of Mormonism and other various sources spread
what the members call false or misleading information. I am skeptical about the
faiths that require uncritical acceptance of their doctrines, history, and
dogmas. I believe before you accept any idea you should turn it inside out, look
it over very carefully, and verify it through all available information
including people who have critically and extensively examined information about
it and have left. They all can't be liars!
Why do people who are so worked up and hate the church so much continually
reading and commenting about it? I usually avoid and ignore things I dislike.
The riveting obsession speaks volumes. Criticism and namecalling never really
hurt but can strengthen.