So, how many of these "forgeries" are used by Anti-Mormons as
"historic records" to malign the church's history?
On a related note, there are mints in the world, when I read about them it was
talking about one located in Lebanan that specialize in making old gold coins.
In otherwords if you buy an old Americal $20 gold piece, you may be buying a
forgery.This is why, I don't like buying old things whose value is
based on their being rare or old. If I buy gold I prefer buying it in a form
where I pay just for the gold.Forgeries are just to easy to make too
well, they fool even the experts. Glenn Beck lets everyone know he buys all his
gold in the form of old rare gold coins. If I ever had the chance to talk to him
I would tell him what I am saying here.
I remember being very skeptical as each new "find" of Hoffman's
surfaced. There were too many to be believable. When Mr. Ashworth kept buying
documents from H., I wanted to call him up and warn him. So sad for the families
who lost loved ones because of Hoffman's greed. Always question "old and
Such a shame about Mark Hoffman. We both served in the Swansea Zone of the
England Bristol Mission at the same time in 1975. A bright, articulate man, who
could have accomplished so much for good. Instead, he sits wasting his time in
a prison cell. A salutory lesson to us all to stay close to the leaders of the
Church, and more especially to the Author of our Salvation and Saviour of the
I was editing copy for the Salt Lake Tribune when the salamander letter story
broke. As an LDS, I was asked to edit the articles dealing with Hoffman. My
reaction to church historians who declared the letter authentic? The letter
certainly didn't sound like something that Joseph Smith would have written and
was so far off base from what I had learned of him that I had no explanation. I
decided to exercise faith that the truth would be revealed someday. That day
came much sooner than I had expected when the true nature of Hoffman was
revealed. I only regret that he was not executed.
The white salamander letter was not the writing of Joseph Smith; it was
purported to have been written by Martin Harris. A review of Martin Harris'
life from his mortgaging and losing part of his farm to cover the cost of
publishing The Book of Mormon right up to his death-bed testimony about The Book
of Mormon and what he saw and heard as one of the Three Witnesses to The Book of
Mormon, it was obvious to me that he never doubted its authenticity - the
salamander notwithstanding. His life spoke louder to me than Hoffman's silly
I find more truth through praying about what to believe, than any 'supposed
actual documents' that have ever been presented to me. I learned a long time ago
that there are people who believe what they want, and people who actually
believe.Prayer is more powerful than any forgery. Ask and ye shall
receive. Line upon line.
I was just in Nauvoo this summer and in the Community of Christ's movie at the
beginning of their tour (that you have to take if you want to see the inside of
Homestead and the Mansion House), they referenced a blessing that said Joseph's
son was supposed to be the next prophet. It must have been this forgery, because
I have never heard of any such blessing (not that I've heard of everything, but
you know what I mean).
Mom of Five:Life is filled with educational experiences, wonder, and
lots of diverse ideas and information.Good to have an open mind when
traveling outside of Utah, home of one way thinking.News flash! Our world
is full of many religions, where others may feel that they, too, have found the
Calm down. She was just explaining what the tour guide said.
So many of you claim you "knew" something was wrong when Hoffman was
selling his forgeries, but did nothing about it...Yeah, right.
OH what a tangled web we weave..........
More preaching from No fit in SG. Some advice for you, "First seek to learn
The forgeries would have eventually been discovered. What should not be
forgotten is some good people were murdered by this selfish and evil man.
Hofmann is not the only worm in the apple.
I liked the Richard Nixon tapes better it was very entertaining
Mark Hoffman interested me. I asked questions about him to my seminary teacher.
Later on my mission after learning there was more to life than the sports page.
I ran into girl on my mission who had been baptized 56 times. Name changes...We
were on to her in a matter of weeks. First time I meet her she stuffed her ID in
my Face and asked my what the problem was. Her surgery was still bleeding in
Texas when my Mom sent me a article in the paper about a girls running out on a
10,000 bill in Cedar City. 3 years latter I used the word manipulative to my
sister in CA the bay. When talking about the type of girl is was. Sister sent
me a picture same GIRL.. Mark Hoffmans are among us they have just changed
their name and makeup....
Hofmann did not invent the idea of a blessing from Joseph Smith Jr. to his son
Joseph Smith III. There just were no copies of a blessing, no contemporary
records of a blessing that named him as a successor, and, of course, no
transcript. Hofmann had an amazing ability to "find" exactly what
people wanted. He took bits of historical information and weaved them together
into a forgery. Ashworth said it was like going to Burger King. Order what you
wanted and Hofmann would find one for you.
MapleDon wrote:"So many of you claim you "knew"
something was wrong when Hoffman was selling his forgeries, but did nothing
about it..."While many now claim to have had suspicions about
Hofmann, I believe Jerald and Sandra Tanner were the first to actually go public
at the time. They had serious doubts about the "finds" early on and
Jerald Tanner even published a strong critique of the Salamander letter
attacking its authenticity.
How do we know that the tape isn't fake ? After all of these years, now it
surfaces ? Sounds a bit odd.
To no fit: What do you mean by "who is truth"?
This has always seemed so odd to me. Did the church ever give an official
explantion of how it was duped? I note some of the othercomments here talk about
how they "knew" this stuff couldn't have been real...yet it seems to
have passed the "smell test" at thhe top levels of the church.
I think some of the discomfort around this is that top leaders in the Church did
not seem to recognize his work as fake. There were even some talks or writings
to justify or back the Salamander story which then later turned out to be a
fake. Of course leaders do not get revelation on all things. It just can be
dissapointing when anti-Mormons (the Tanners) recognized something as forgery
supoposedly long before the church leaders appear to.
To LeDoc:I want to say this as gently as I can. The very fact that
the Church leaders were duped looks very bad. And it looks bad no matter how you
try to spin it. For a careful and lengthy explanation --from the
Church's point of view-- you might want to look up some of the things General
Authority Dallin Oaks had to say about the whole affair.
@ericNorCal; Huh ?
We are all human, church leaders included, we all make mistakes. Think it
always foolish to pin your testimony on things such as these. Who knows, maybe
God did not intervene with Gen. Auth. so that members had opportunity to test
their faith. It's not like the prophet came out at Conference declaring this
fake letter to be revelation for the membership of the church and pertinent to
our salvation or anything. Just one more reason why we need to always take
advantage of personal study, personal prayer, personal pondering, and personal
revelation in all things; that's why we have the Holy Ghost. I don't believe
just sitting through church on Sunday and 'going with the flow' of everybody
else's opinions is prudent or what God expects of us. That is not what the
scriptures advise us to do. There may be times when I feel I need to accept
what the prophet says strictly on faith and obedience; but then take the weeks
or months or years of study and prayer to gain my personal revelation on the
correctness of the principle. God gave us a reasoning brain after all.
Mark has done 25 hard years at the point of the mountain. Isn't it about time
to let him return to his family, including his dear mother? He could write a
book and join the speakers circuit to earn enough to support himself. He did
the crime, he did the time, and now we all need to forgive and forget.
to Truth and Light,"Forgive and Forget"- really? Forgiving
is up to the victims - and if it takes them 10,000 years to forgive. I'm good
with that. Forget- please tell me how does someone forget that their mother,
their neighbor, their friend was murdered? If the victims agreed to
it, I would be for letting Mark write a book and all the proceds going to his
victims families. But as far as letting Mark be with his mother ... how about
letting him out- as soon as he brings back the mother he killed, Kathy Sheets,
to be with her children and grand-children. 'In 1988, before the
Utah Board of Pardons, Hofmann confessed that he thought planting the bomb that
killed Kathy Sheets was "almost a game at the time I made the bomb, my
thoughts were that it didn't matter if it was Mrs. Sheets, a child, a dog
whoever" was killed. Within the hour the parole board, impressed by
Hofmann's "callous disregard for human life", decided that he would
indeed serve his "natural life in prison."'He is LUCKY he
didn't get the death penalty.
Re: Truth and Light, The problem is that he hasn't done the time. He
killed innocent people and ruined thousands of lives. I don't that he can ever
do enough time to make up for that. Releasing him would just make his dear
mother suffer more each time she sees him.
@Truth & Light: Amen to the comments made by Wallyb and ST from Layton.
Yes, forgiveness is up to his victims and the scriptures never require us to
forget evil deeds nor to allow the perpetrator to not fully pay for their
crimes. I am not a proponent of the death penalty, but I believe Mark needs to
remain in prison for the rest of his life in order to at least make some sort of
restitution to the families of the victims he murdered. He obviously has not
repented for his crimes and seems not to even feel remorse. Why should he have
the opportunity to travel about and speak and write about his life when his
victims are dead and their families suffering? Sorry, I don't get it.
For some of us who knew Mark H. personally, he is still an enigma. He devotion
to his children was sincere, I believe. I talked with him when he was in his
wheelchair, and he seemed like a caring human at that time. However, I had seen
that he also was devoted to material things, such as his red sports car that he
parked so carefully. I too would be in favor of him writing a book, from prison,
and if there were proceeds to distribute, have them go to his victims' families.
I think it would be useful from a behavioral science viewpoint to read what he
might write about his motives and his attitudes. I have no compassion for him,
but I do for his family, and I'd like to read how he was able to care so much
for his family, yet leave them to suffer because of his evil deeds.
...his dear mother sees him on her weekly visit to the prison. Enough is enough
my dearest, get over it.