I cannot think of a more disgusting movie to tell or write about. It is too
close to home for those of us here in Utah. Even though is was back in th3 80s,
it is too sensitive of a story to portray in any case. It will just
show how misguided people can be and believe to justify what they did to harm an
innocent mother and her child. It will probably be an "R" rated
movie, nonetheless, it will still be gruesome and desensitizing at the same
time. Ron Howard has many great movies to his credit, and it is
beyond me to understand why he would take on such a project and controversial
subject. Yet he has the right to do that, undeniably.
I doubt it is going to be objective. It is ironic how the writer of a book that
criticizes religion, and the LDS church in particular, because of irrationality,
uses a ex-Mormon writer to write the screen play for the movie made from the
book. That doesn't very rational unless someone has an axe to grind!
Awesome. Can't wait to see Ron Howard's treatment of this Krakauer work.
Hopefully it will come across as well as Krakauer's "Wild" adaptation
from Sean Penn.
Great. Funny how nobody talks about the religious beliefs of other maniacs who
aren't LDS. Anybody can go crazy: Baptist, Jewish, Catholic, Athiest,
Republican or Democrat.
Lived very near to where this took place. Heard very intimate details about
these killers and their, well known, history from their close neighbors. Anxious
to see how this incident will be portrayed on film.
Anything to do with "fringe groups of Mormon history" is all the rage
anymore. If Ron Howard is fair they will heavily emphasize that
these groups are "splinter groups" and have nothing to do with todays
Mormon church. Of course, that will not happen. I would like Ron
Howard or some capable producer to do a movie about Orin Porter Rockwell. Even
if they embellished his reputation as a body guard of Joseph Smith it would make
for a fun movie. Of course, I am not suggesting that it be untruthful.
Maybe it is me, but I find the timing of this a bit odd, Could it be the fact
that there are two LDS gentlemen running for the Presidency? That is just a
theory. Tell you what though, I have no problem with the making of this film but
in all fairness how about a non LDS film about something positive in regards to
Nice, Ron. . . Quite a journey (downwards) from your innocent days in
"Mayberry" to Krakauer's sleazy pseudo-history.
Religion in general is in decline, and secularists have latched on to Mormonism
as THE case study in weird religion. The problem that detractors will repeatedly
run into, however, is the actual fruits of this supposedly weird religion.
Mormons will continue to rise in influence as they shake their heads in
disbelief. Some once said, success is the best revenge.
Great book by an excellent author!
There is no god going to tell the entertainment industry what they can say.God should be the director. However, it seem Satin writes their scrips with no
regard for content. The Lord has no influence on them. I find it hard to
believe they can dare mock the Lord and sleep good at night. You can not serve
two masters.The film industry is very vain, worshiping only itself.
Glorified with money and awards.Ron Howard has a very good tract record,
would hate to see him down grade himself in front of the Lord. Maybe the awards
and money has a greater draw.
I pray that the Holy Spirit will be on the set during the filming and and have a
spiritual influence on them. . LDS brother
Well, Ron Howard and Tom Hanks had better watch their steps, they
may well find themselves in opposition to the good in the world. There isn't
much good left, and all this story is--adds up to a few men who were
psychologically disturbed--and they once happened to be Mormons...in name only.
Tying anyone who is psychopathic to the religion they happened to belong to is a
very dangerous practice. It has no correlation whatsoever.Sad Mr.
Howard, very very sad. But all children are innocent when young, they don't
always stay that way. Hanks and Howard have been brainwashed by Hollywood, now
becoming Hollywood's stooges...
I have many Catholic friends, I have attended Mass with them, I have
participated in numerous Catholic weddings and funerals and I have read and seen
the DaVinci Code and Angels and Demons. I thoroughly enjoyed reading them, they
were entertaining and I appreciated the writing and the acting etc. It did not
change my positive opinion of the Catholic Church one bit. Being an active
member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I do not worry about
this movie and the the lack of accuracy that will undoubtedly be part of the
movie. People with half a brain will see it for what it is, Hollyweird
entertainment. Those who somehow go to learn something about my religion are
already set in their ways and have the negative feelings about the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The movie would change that in any way. I
don't take the directors, actors, producers of Hollyweird seriously. They live
in a fantasy world where they have to do anything to validate their existence,
so I say, let them come. They have no where else to go. I use them to be
I remember when the story actually happened and I did not like his retelling of
the story at all. Not all authors twist the truth. I saw a documentary
recently about a pair of RM brothers who murdered as dismembered 5 people in
Northern California. Their membership in the church was key in telling their
story, yet Aphrodite Jones made it very clear that their upbringing and family
beliefs were not mainstream Mormon, even though they went to church every week
and on the surface seemed to be a typical LDS family.
What are you guys afraid of?Are you afraid of the truth?LDS history
has a lot of bad in it.These freak fringe groups stem from the bad.It is what it is.
This story has as much to do with LDS "History" as the wacko militia
groups around the country have to do with the US Army and Constitution. These
were just 2 crazy brothers who perpetrated a heinous crime. In the history of
the church, has there ever been any documentation of people being killed for
"honor" because they failed to live up to some coventant or promise to
the church? I'm not aware of any. Even if it were 1%, if it were not sanctioned
by a Stake or GA council, it could be discounted as someone acting alone.I question the timing and motive of this movie. I saw an interview with
Howard and Hanks RE Angels and Demons on CNN where they were laughing about the
question of whether it was important to depict the truth. Hanks said "this
is for entertainment and not important to tell the truth". So
our culture and beliefs are to be twisted for "entertainment value".
This would never happen if we were Jewish.
Krakauer, Howard and Hanks ever increasingly unite themselves with the expanding
group of filmmakers whose god has involved into the almighty buck, progressively
producing glitzy trash as they propagandize it as historically enlightening.
What I want to know if LDS who had no problems with davinci code and sequel with
no concerns are now realizing what Hollywood does to faith groups.
I have enjoyed the majority of Ron Howard's work, and I am sure he will do a
convincing job once again with this. It is disheartening that, rather than being
unique, he is drawn to join the crowd that promotes anti-faith sentiments.
Perhaps he has never found a faith that resonates with his inner-self. Regardless, LDS faithful should brace for more of this. The negative stories
must continue, along with the good, until the final day. That is how it works.
"But the truth of God will go forth..."
K - I have a huge problem with Davinci Code and Angels and Demons. I think most
of us do...Fuzz - I don't buy your version of "Truth"
The man who was once "Opie" seems to be fighting his own demons. He
appears to want to destroy instead of building. It would appear to be a direct
effort to discredit the LDS Church in a time when a leading candidate for
president is from that church.
K, yes, Davinci Code was an obvious (and absurd) smear against Catholicism and
religion in general. Religious people need to set aside differences and start
defending one another against this aggressive secularism. While we argue about
doctrinal differences, the enemy is at the gates.
Has anyone wondered why religion changes?Example, compare Bible
prophets to "today prophets." It just seems that the two worlds are
not the same at all. I always hear that God is unchanging and remains the same,
but how is that true if the Bible world is so different than today's world. Thanks Ron Howard for living in the same world as me.
The book has much more to do with culture than with the Lafferty brothers. It is
an entertaining and thoughtful book by an outstanding and well-credentialed
author. This article seems more interested in discrediting the work than
reporting on it. Most of the controversy are by those who have not read it. I'm a huge fan of Ron Howard and hope the movie gets made.
Sounds like great movie material! I'll definitely see it!
As Latter-day Saints, we have believed and done some really peculiar things
measured against the rest of the world. Much like other subgroups of society
have done for millennia. But I can't tell you how many times Big Love, Under
the Banner of God, and The Book of Mormon Musical have led to great chats with
non-Mormon friends and acquaintances. Just like the 2002 Olympics opened the
closed society of Utah to the world, these things have a thread of value if we
let them. That they may sting a bit is another topic altogether. The story behind this film is that the Laffertys are killers urged on by dark
forces. They claimed God told them to commit these crimes. All sorts of folks
throughout history claim this sort of thing. That they happen to be associated
with a "fundamentalist" Mormon group is what it is. It's a tragic
story that Krakuer thrives on and he does it fairly well having read it and
other books he has written. Just wish he would have shown that sick is sick no
matter what the roots may (or may not) be. Hope the film will do that.
@speed66, I agree with you. The world is full of blind followers.
RE: The DaVinci Code;I found this to be a great piece of
entertainment. Of course, the 2 warring factions within the Catholic Church
were either made up or exaggerated. But the basic premise: That Christ married
and had offspring : Why is that a problem? Sure it doesn't say that in the
bible, but we as LDS know that to attain the highest level of the Celestial
Kingdom, one has to take on the NEw and Everlasting Covenant, so why couldn't he
have been married and had children? Would that make his progeny automatically
some mystic superhuman being? No.I think the major objection is
geared toward HOW the story is told. I believe this new film has no redeeming
merit. It glorifies sick and base behavior. But if Mr. Howard is even-handed
in the telling of the story, how is it a sin? Either way, it will
further serve to separate the wheat from the tares, something that needs to
continue in these Latter Days.
Let a story surface that anything being written, filmed or performed about the
LDS church MIGHT show something other than Sunshine and lollipops and everyone
puts on their hair shirts, sack cloth and ashes and starts to wail, whine and
scream that they are being persecuted for their beliefs.I love how
everyone jumps the gun and immediately goes to how inaccurate the script (which
I don't think has even been written yet) will portray the LDS church and it's
members.The LDS brag about how big a church they are becoming, with
that growth comes media portrayals that may or may not be accurate. Deal with
it. Your religion isn't the first to have movies, plays, musicals, stories,
etc. that aren't 100% accurate. What are YOU going to do about it? Because
people will become interested in your beliefs and will begin looking at YOU to
see what a real LDS person is like. From my experiences, those who
are members of a religion do far more damage to it's reputation and make it look
less than desireable than a movie that the majority of people understand is a
story being told, and may or may not be true.
Of course Dustin Lance Black is going to make a film to attack Mormons.
Isn't this the Ron Howard who played Opie Taylor in the 1960s "The Andy
Griffith Show?" He needs to lose his license for this and find some other
line of work.
This sounds like a desperate attempt at Oscar bait by Ron Howard after his plans
for a Dark Tower trilogy were nixed by Universal. Mormons of course are a
popular topic these days with the Book of Mormon musical, Jimmer mania, and the
Presidential race. But looking at his track record, I think Howard will make an
effort to try to make the movie less controversial and more like a crime drama
that just happens to involve Mormon splinter groups. That's the only way I see
this movie working because otherwise it just becomes another "religious
people are crazy and their religion makes them do terrible things in the name of
God." I mean it's been done to death (no pun intended) in Hollywood. And
we don't need another "September Dawn."
This is all a little too boring for me. Ron Howard, the Big Love writer,
fundamentalists, blah blah blah. Somebody wake me up when the Cohen brothers
film a movie about Mountain Meadows.
SL from Rexburg said--Mormons will continue to rise in influence as they shake
their heads in disbelief. Some once said, success is the best revenge.See, this is a big part of the problem. The need to come out on top and the
desire for success and revenge. What do these things have to do with Christ's
message? When non Mormon people mistrust LDS leaders and members, or when young
people feel inclined to leave the church, or when new converts stray--I think
that it is this attitude more than anything else, that influences their opinions
and decisions. I read this book. It is an excellent work that really says
nothing more than--"hold a harsh light up to our institutions and don't be
afraid to question authority."
Krakauer is highly overrated in his ability to prose acurately. Any book in
which he (Krakauer) is a part, he places himself as the hero of the story--a
bent openly disputed by others who were a part of the real-life events. He has
shown himself to be an incredibly poor researcher who zero's in on a particular
point of a story and ignores fact for storytelling that sells books. The guy is
an egomaniac with self aggrandizing heroism as his literary intent.
Just a couple years ago the big deal was "September Dawn". It was
intentionally promoted to embarrass the Church. In spite of a couple of stars in
the cast, no one cared. It was a bad movie that died of its own self
importance. The only victim was the lost opportunity to explore the tragedy.
This movie is no different. If it is just a hatchet job, it will
straight to video. If it is compelling, then it will be about more than a
church. When I watched "Angels and Demons", I had an increased
sympathy for Catholics who could be fictionally victimized.
A lot of posters who have a lot of fear in their hearts. Krakauer is a well
respected author who is unafraid to do the work.read his books. I hope all of
you have. In fact just read the prologue of Under the Banner and then decide if
he is anti-LDS or not. You will find he is pretty even handed.
Yes Ron Howard is trying to win an Oscar ... so what, hope he does, it's what he
does. (I bet if you saw him as Opie right now on TV you would still smile)You who are condemning Ron Howard ... did you condemn him for DaVinci Code
too? Probably not because it wasn't about LDS.There will always be
attacks against the good in the world, whether it's the LDS or any other Church.
Live your religion, speak kindly of others and simply don't go see the movie if
you don't think it's right.Take a chill pill and don't be bothered so
easily! Read some scriptures and prophecies on the latter days and see if you
can understand. This stuff won't go away until Christ comes again.
Hollywood is all about liberal politics ... and it is no coincidence that this
movie is coming out right in the middle of the 2012 presidential election.
Everybody always wants to persecute the Lord's church. We will prevail from
this. This is just another example of the media trying to bring us down when
we're in the spotlight. Ain't going to happen.
It is interesting how, in such quick succession, society is being polarized.Lines are being drawn and the wheat is being separated from the tares.
It is interesting to witness.Buckle up folks, it's going to be a
bumpy ride, but we'll make it in the end.
This article and some comments made in response remind me how interesting it is
to see how members respond to articles, movies, tv shows, comments that
negatively tie plural marriage to the LDS Church. There seems to be no question
that the Church and members would like to distance the Church from plural
marriage almost to the point of acting as if it didn't exist (see church manuals
of past prophets that do not even mention any wife by name other than the
first).It is also interesting how members personally come to grips
with this past practice. Some put it on their "shelf" and don't think
about it at all, some disagree it was a command from God but are able to accept
everything else LDS (my mom), some have accepted a comforting but often
historically inaccurate apologetic rational for it's practice (i.e. more women
than men), and some embrace it as a key component of the restoration and
something likely to be practiced again.Everyone must come to their
own conclusion. But for me, an honest and open-minded study of the history of
LDS plural marriage is VERY difficult to attribute to God's Restoration.
I have read with great interest all of the comments. The wickedness and
perverseness of mankind have been prophesied to come in these latter days by the
Ancient prophets as well as modern.Back in the 1950's I was a
teenage girl and attended a conference in which one of the Apostles spoke, and
he told us that the time would come when The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints would be persecuted, and that the persecution we would go
through would make the persecution the early saints went through look like they
were on a picnic. I see that prophecy being fulfilled every day. Also,
President Boyd K. Packer said in one of his recent talks that things are going
to get worse before they get better -- and I might add they are. We see that
every day!We need not stress or get angry over these things, but be
diligent and faithful in keeping the commandments of God and the covenants we
have made with him and endure to the end and He will reward us according to our
To Grandma 19,I just saw the movie "17 Miracles". What we
are going through today pales in comparison to what the early members went
through. Not only in actual persecution but in how difficult it was to live as
an obedient member (plural marriage). I do my fair share of moaning and groaning
but I believe it is cake to be a member today compared to the past. I think it is almost in our genes to look at everything around us as
persecution and as signs of the endtimes when in reality most things have
improved dramatically on all levels.
I guess I'm fairly isolated from the problems of the world and movie makers.
I'll let these folks do what they do and go about my business quietly and
peacefully. If God doesn't like what they do then He can punish them. I choose
to forgive and forget. All of this media attention will just inspire more folks
to seek the truth so be ready my young lads because your appointment books are
going to fill up. Flee to Zion if you desire safety. Lehi is a great place to
To Idaho Coug:Thank you for your kind remarks -- I totally agree. I
also saw "17 Miracles" a couple of weeks ago and was very touched by
it. Some of my ancestors walked across the plains with handcarts -- some came
in covered wagons. Their trials and tribulations were certainly different than
It seems in poor taste to tell this tale. But since when does Hollywood think
about anything but the almighty dollar?
"Only time will tell how Dustin Lance Black, an ex-Mormon, and Ron Howard,
who drew heat for his depiction of the Catholic hierarchy in "The Da Vinci
Code" and "Angels and Demons," will treat the origins of LDS
faith."You're kidding, right?
It is unfortunate that this vile and purient subject has found financial
backers. What is there about a double murder of family members that anyone in
their right mind would find even the least bit interesting, let alone
entertaining? Will the climax of the film be when one brother says to the other,
"Thanks for doing the baby, I don't think I could have done that."?
What other draw could there be to such a gruesome tale if not for the connection
to fundamentalist mormons? It is no accident that Ron Howard is
behind this film. His work on the Da Vinci Code established him as the guy for a
riveting religious expose`. My heart ached for the Catholics then, but then
again, Mormons are used to it. I too pray, and ask God to be with
those who make this film, and allow His spirit to influence for good the out
come. May He draw those persons to His gospel that they too may come unto
Christ. Only then will they see their folly. Only then, can we help them. Let us ever pray for these souls; I feel it is what Brenda Lafferty and
her baby would want.
Don't let your heart ache too hard for the catholics, we have a pretty thick
skin. I thought the Da Vinci Code was a good book and a lousy movie.
While whistling down the dirt lane, fishing pole over the shoulder, "Pa,
tell me about them Mormons..." "well Opie, they are a dasterdly bunch,
full of hate and secrets, they even pay 10% to fund the prophets extravagant
lifestyle." "gosh pa, you shure bout' them mormons?" "No
opie, but we hate them Christian folk so the ends justify the means."
Whistles off into the distance...
Krakauer's book is deeply flawed. It misunderstands 19th century Mormonism and
maligns 20th and 21st century Mormonism by implying it has a connection to
polygamy when it has done everything it can to legally disavow the practice. It
also accuses the Church of banning inter-racial marriage, which considering the
president of the Sao Paulo North Mission is a black man married to a white woman
is total hogwash. The first black man sealed in the temple was sealed to a
non-black wife and the sealing was done by Thomas S. Monson. I could go on, but
I think the point is clear.
We are probably about due for another big anti-Mormon film, since the Godmakers
is now a bit dated. Have a crack at it Krakauer, Black and Howard. We will
make lemonade out of it, regardless of its accuracy.
The book is a lot more objective than anything FARMS produces. There were some
mistakes but it was mostly accurate.
I wonder if any of the book's detractors (including the official LDS
spokespeople) actually read the book. The book is not anti-Mormon at all. It's
an incredibly well-written and objective piece of work that I found fascinating.
I can't believe I refused to read it for years because others close
to me characterized it as 'anti'. This book is NOT sleazy, glitzy,
pseudo-historical, etc. Just read it.@CWEB | 11:04 p.m. July 20,
2011 Of course it has correlation to the church - most of the book
focuses on 'personal revelation', which is what led to the murders in the first
place. The book details how JSmith's introduction of 'personal revelation' to
his church was both a blessing and an eventual curse (i.e. not being able to
control splinters that believe they're getting revelations all the time).
Please read the book before dismissing it.
I have Catholic friends that said, "Don't see Angels and Demons". So I
didn't.If we allow and participate in the encroachment of Catholic
ridicule like "Sister Act" on Broadway and Ron Howard/Tom Hanks films,
we should expect at least the same to the LDS.
Free, bad press is better than no press at all.
Ron Howard is a genius. I'm sure the film will be very good.
Just like most Hollyweird actors and directors, Ron Howard continues his decline
into mediocrity. Just like Tom Hanks, I no longer have any use for anything
either guy is involved in. It's a shame, because I used to admire both of them.
I have absolutely no desire to see this movie or read a book about grisly, sick
murders, written by a fool of an author who uses cheap sensationalism to make
money off of the numerous people with poor taste who revel in such garbage.
The reaction of most LDS here to Krakauer's book is predictable, but somewhat
contradictory. When challenged by the missionaries to read the Book
of Mormon, I started it... and was unable to get past the part where God
instructs Nephi to decapitate Laban. I simply don't believe God provides those
kind of instructions.The Book of Mormon is laced with divinely
sanctioned violence, yet Krakauer is to blame for pointing out real world
examples of how religious ideology has led to violence?The reaction
to a piece that doesn't show the Mormon religious ideology in a positive light
is certainly understandable, but ultimately, hypocritical.
@Grandma19"Back in the 1950's I was a teenage girl and attended a
conference in which one of the Apostles spoke, and he told us that the time
would come when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be
persecuted, and that the persecution we would go through would make the
persecution the early saints went through look like they were on a picnic. I see
that prophecy being fulfilled every day."I left the LDS church
and yet I'm still deeply offended by this comment. The pioneers faced real
persecution. Or are extermination orders picnics to you?
This is another non-story. Members of the LDS Church just need to keep living
according to the teachings of Christ. This will have no significant impact.
Just saw a quote from Kirstie Alley that says it all, "Murder is murder,
not a religious disorder."
It doesn't seem right the way the Salt Lake Mormons post so much hate for the
FLDS, it is almost schizophrenic self hate. The Salt Lake Mormons and the FLDS
grew up in the arms of the same mother church. Where is the Christian love, the
Salt Lake Mormons should embrace their sister church and help heal it with love
"If negotiations are successful"So much condemnation in
the comments and article for a movie that hasn't even been green-lighted let
alone written or filmed.
eastcoastcougThere is only one version of truth. You can either
accept it or deny it.10CCI can tell you haven't read the
it has come to my understanding that some people might think that this will be a
cool movie to see and cant wait to see how it turns out. well im here to tell
you that im Allen lafferty daughter and i don't see any way that this would be a
cool movie to see and see how it will turn out. my father is still having a hard
time with the whole thing and it has been many years from now. do you have any
consideration to other peoples feeling or are you just being human and want to
see others that went through it suffer. i want you to put your self im the
laffertys shoes and his late wife's family shoes. and i want you to think about
something. if this happen to me would i really want to have my store made into a
movie. really people what is this world coming to.
A number of BYU religion scholars put together a panel discussion and other
commentary on Dan Brown's books and his lurid depiction of the Roman Catholic
Church. We Mormons don't need or want an inaccurate depiction of Christ or the
early history of Christianity, or about the modern Catholic Church. A lot of
Mormons are former Catholics with lots of friends and family who still are, and
they have no interest in depicting Catholics as either dangerous or incompetent,
the way Brown does.The premises that drive Brown's recent novels are
illogical, and the only thing that mitigates this is the pace at which he throws
events at the reader. If you stop and think for a minute, the whole story line
falls apart. Krakauer's book's theme is that personal revelation is
dangerous. He said so in interviews. The rejection of revelation by modern
Christian churches comes from this fear, even though it is couched in terms of
"You can't add to the Bible." The Pharisees and Sadducees of Christ's
day had the same fear of living prophets and their disruption of established
religious power. But Ted Bundy was a serial killer without
"revelation". Likewise Stalin, Mao and Hitler.
Krakauer tries to draw a line connecting the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the
more contemporary murder by two people who rejected the LDS Church. Other than
being murders, there is no similarity. There is no record that the militia in
Cedar City ever claimed "revelation" to attack the Fancher wagon
train. It was a brutal attack that was prompted by hothead John D. Lee, that
magnified bad judgment combined with fear and hatred into murder. At the same time, we should not forget that, in the same era, and region, the
US Army and various state militias, like in Colorado, were pretty handy at
murdering Indian families en masse. Less than a year after the Mountain Meadows
attack, the Army units that marched to Utah wiped out an Indian village, the way
they had been talking about doing to the Mormons. I am pretty sure the militias
and soldiers were able to kill without any claim that it was justified by the
voice of God. Americans have been pretty efficient at slaughter of Indians
since the Jamestown and Plymouth Colones. And then there were
massacres during the Civil War, and in the Philippine Insurrection.
FWIW, religion in general has been under attack from popular media. Some of the
most acclaimed dramas have one dimensional religious characters as tokens to
mock and make fun of. There's the evil self-righteous preacher figure that
condemns everyone, but inwardly is a hypocrite and has some evil lustful
desires. There's the braindead christian evangelical who is artificially happy
but inwardly is sad and empty. There's the mindless mormon cultist who simply
doesn't know anything about the real world, is really just repressed and
therefore needs to be taught how to live, be liberated, and let loose. There's
the bigot religious follower who burns crosses into lawns, kills abortion
doctors, and shoots random saintly politicians. There's the whack-job nut who
kills because he hears voices. There's the religious parent who turns their back
on their teen's pregnancy, or their son's uncompromising/yet always a victim gay
born-that-way life. Inevitably all these religious villains must
denounce their religion if they're to grow as characters--or they are simply
killed/arrested/ostracized. These are all cliche's. They're tired
old pernicious lies. They're destroying the foundation of what makes our country
great. Behold the pride of the world.
Remember the movie "September Dawn" with Jon Voigt. Lost a ton of
money. Good luck, Mr Howard.
%coltakashi, you present a good overview, but it is difficult to determine what
is your point: that the sins of others justify the sins of Mormons, or that sins
are just the way of man's life, past, present and future.%raybies,
you write: "These are all cliche's. They're tired old pernicious lies.
They're destroying the foundation of what makes our country great".
Granted, they are terrible events and terrible destructive people, but they are
real and historical; so what are you suggesting, that the country bury its head
in the sand and pretent that it is not happening or is not real.
I'm not LDS but I am an historian and I have read the book. I think it falls
into the category of books called tabloid history. It plays fast and loose with
the facts and has not third act. If Ron Howard wants to direct a film to bash
the Mormons there are any number of books from the 19th century that will prove
far more entertaining.
coltakashi:What is the nature of revelation? On the one hand is the
notion that revelation is a very distinct, unambigious event that can't be
confused with one's own thinking. On the other hand is the notion that if one
lives correctly and maintains a strong faith, the God/Jesus, via the holy ghost,
will guide them in their daily lives, even in minute decision making.I have an aunt who prayed & claimed revelation on whether to buy a black
& white TV or a color TV. How is anyone supposed to know whether she was up
in the night, or not?Krakauer's book describes the "School of
the Prophets" in Payson(?) where the Lafferty brothers and a number of
other devout believers were teaching themselves how to receive a more continuous
stream of direct revelation, certainly not the more discreet, occasional message
delivered by Prophet, (which historically began with "Thus Sayeth the
Lord...")Prophecy itself seems to have dried up, by and large
(certainly compared to the prophecies issued by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and
the early LDS prophets) but the scope of revelation is confined to one's level
of authorization.This doesn't clear up when revelation goes bad.
If the movie is disgusting, it will be an accurate portrayal. Repercussions from
this incident and its aftermath in our family for years had my grandmother from
that side seriously considered changing the pedigree charts.
The men working on this film obviously hate religion and have come to the
conclusion that has been reached by many: that because much evil has been done
in the name of religion, then religion must be bad. I expect to see this
philosophy touted in not only their films but also almost all films that come
out of Hollywood, which promotes an agenda that includes an enmity toward
organized religion and social conservatives while promoting acceptance of
homosexual activity, premarital sex, abortion, recreational drug use,
pornography, and cohabitation without marriage. Most Hollywood types are
Socialists and many are outright communists. As the dichotomy between good and
evil in the world deepens, any attacks on the LDS Church will have the result of
drawing good people toward the religion and its virtuous concepts. However, I
expect the men working on this movie to intentionally confuse the public between
the mainstream LDS church and the defectors who have committed heinous crimes in
the name of God.
Even if the truth hurts, the truth never needs a defense. While I realize that
FEW people here in Utah cannot separate fact from movie fiction, that's a
cultural issue. Ron Howard is an excellent director, I may or may not chose to
view the movie, haven't read the book, and don't know if the story interests me
enough to read it at this point. Books about homicide among family members
regardless of the reason,aren't really my cup of tea/postum/chocolate/diet coke,
etc. Why wring your hands in angst over something you truly have zero control
over? Doesn't make any sense at all to me.
For all it's faults Krakauer's book does a good job of dealing with serious
issues regarding religion, belief, divine commandment & revelation,
obedience and lastly violence and killing in the name of God. Understandably
faithful LDS don't want the more troublesome parts of LDS doctrine no matter how
extinct or fundamentalist connected with the modern Church at all. But
these things are history and they are connected. The Lafferty
brothers were crazy to think God told them to kill and were fundamentalist to be
sure. At the same time though the story of Nephi killing Laban because 'the
spirit compelled him to' is taught in LDS chapels as a model of obedience to God
on a regular basis. Brigham Young repeatedly taught of Blood Atonement and early
LDS fully believed in it. How's is it that LDS get all angry at Krakauer for
writing his book and Howard for making a film when clearly the question can be
asked, "How is Nephi or Brigham any better than the Lafferty's? How is
religion that teaches killing in the name of God not dangerous?"
It may be that the Gay activist writer, Dustin Black, has an axe to grind, so we
probably shouldn't expect him to be fair in presenting LDS, and me might even
take whatever opportunity he can to paint my children as evil because of their
religious faith...but, you never know, maybe he will try to build bridges, maybe
he'll call for a stop to the bullying of LDS, maybe he'll try to explain that
bigotry and hatred are never good... even if they are religious folk.... : )
hey it could happen...As I read the comments (most are probably by
our favorite DN full time anti-Mormons) I wonder how these few hateful people
became so obsessed with destroying others. They spend their days here doing
this????? IS there a pill for that? : )
This book was very well written, gripping, and heart-breaking. As a true-crime
story alone it was interesting, but the way Kraukauer interweaved it with mormon
history gave some unique insight into these men's psyches. They didn't come up
with these ideas on their own. The modern LDS church (and 2 presidential
candidates) have nothing to worry about. It has moved on past the era of Joseph
Smith and Brigham Young and is a respectable organization today. These guys were
more closely aligned with FLDS beliefs, which are fresh in everyone's mind
because of the Jeffs trial.