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Fox News host: Romney not Christian

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  • Utah Girl Vernal, UT
    July 17, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    AAARRRGGGHHH!!! Yet another mis-informed talking head that labels Mormons as "Not Christian"! It is SO exasperating to me. I had an interesting discussion recently with a co-worker who is Baptist, and she agreed that certainly members of the LDS Church are Christian. What is the definition of a Christian anyway? Someone who believes in Christ, accepts Him as the Savior, obeys His commandments, and tries to live a Christ-like life. That is the very center of the teachings of our Church. Do black people picture Christ as black? Do Asian people picture Him as Asian? I don't know, but if they did, would that make them less Christian? Every church has a little different viewpoint, or interpretation, of who Christ is. Some believe he is the literal son of God, as the LDS Church does. I'm not sure what the evangelicals believe regarding that. But those differences don't make one church Christian, and another non-Christian. This is a really silly debate, and one that needs to end. There are other issues far more important, especially regarding the upcoming Presidential contest, than whether or not a person is "Christian." Amen...

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    If the acceptance of the doctrines of false leaders of Christianity during the 3rd, 4th, and 5th centuries that repudiated and rejected the gospel as accepted and taught by Christ and his apostles is what this co-host means to be "Christian", then she is right. Of course, then neither is Christ or his apostles. Strange exclusive club these followers of Nehor have built.

  • Really??? Kearns, UT
    July 17, 2011 1:54 p.m.

    I wrote a letter to FOX News suggesting they assign this "reporter" to do an in-depth report about Hunstman and Romney and their Christian faith. It might do her some good to do some research before she says such misinformed rubbish. Of course, when has Fox News been known for verifying facts?

  • Phill Provo, UT
    July 17, 2011 1:55 p.m.

    Fox News Corp.. what do you expect.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 17, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    And yet this is were most Mormons in Utah get there news from and Fox is the supporter of the party most Mormons vote for. Lets not forget Mike Huckabee's comments from a few years ago. If this had been CNN or MSNB people on this board would be going crazy, but because it is FOX or republican it is tolerated.

  • The Missing Link A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    July 17, 2011 2:02 p.m.

    RE: Utah Girl - 1:28 p.m. Vernal, UT
    AAARRRGGGHHH!!! Yet another mis-informed talking head that labels Mormons as "Not Christian"! It is SO exasperating to me.

    Reply: Sorry to burst YOUR bubble. Romney not a Christian. Mormonism and Christianity have a complex theological, historical, and sociological relationship. Mormons express the doctrines of Mormonism using standard biblical terminology, and have similar views about the nature of Jesus' atonement, bodily resurrection, and Second Coming as traditional Christianity. Nevertheless, Mormons agree with non-Mormons that their view of God is significantly different from the trinitarian view of the Nicene Creed of the 4th century. Though Mormons consider the Bible as scripture (insofar as it is "translated correctly"), they have also adopted additional scriptures. Mormons not only practice baptism and celebrate the Eucharist but also participate in religious rituals unknown to traditional Christianity. Although the various branches of Christianity have diverse views about the nature of salvation, the Mormon view is particularly idiosyncratic.

  • Mike in Texas Allen, TX
    July 17, 2011 2:20 p.m.

    With apologies to the Savior, Mrs. Earhardt's comment proves that not only are the "poor always with us", but so are the ignorant.

  • MormonDem Provo, UT
    July 17, 2011 2:22 p.m.

    (Pssst, Mormons: the right wing doesn't like you. They just keep you around as long as you're politically expedient.)

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    July 17, 2011 2:23 p.m.

    Live by Fox News ...die by Fox news

  • micawber Centerville, UT
    July 17, 2011 2:33 p.m.

    @the Missing Link

    I've never understood why we want to tell other people what they believe. If a person professes to be a Christian, that is good enough for me. Really, it just seems like a trademark dispute: do some Christians have the exclusive right to use the name of Jesus Christ?

  • sjgf South Jordan, UT
    July 17, 2011 2:40 p.m.

    This just proves that Americans are about as literate on basic Mormon beliefs as they are on what people they should vote for to maintain this republic.

    In other words, the vast majority are totally ignorant about it.

    As I hear the reasons many give for splitting hairs and calling Mormons non-Christian because they don't believe in the version of Christ created by a pagan Roman ceasar (the Nicene Creed), I think many of these 'experts' would claim that Christ himself is not a Christian, because I don't think He believes in the Nicene Creed.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 17, 2011 2:46 p.m.

    Religion is the worst thing that can happen to politics. Nonetheless, if someone wants to put it out front they had better be willing to have it come back on them. I don't feel any sorrow or empathy for Huntsman; he signed up for this. The real dilemma is how Utah reconciles this with their darling, Fox News.

  • HappyHeathen Puyallu, Wa.
    July 17, 2011 2:49 p.m.

    Sounds like Fox News is getting behind Perry doesnt it? Romney or Perry..I wouldnt vote for either but would vote for Romney 10 times ahead of Perry if I had to go that way.

  • chicagoslc Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    I'm guessing she meant to say that he's a non protestant. That would be more accurate and fair. He does believe in Christ and by that definition is a Christian. But he is not a protestant, which is what people usually think of as a Christian.

  • runwasatch Ogden, UT
    July 17, 2011 3:03 p.m.

    RE: The Missing Link | 2:02 p.m. July 17, 2011
    A Tropical Paradise USA, FL

    It is interesting to observe the "traditional christians" squabble over who is, and who is not a "christian" and what defines who is.

    If one delves into the fundamental doctrines of all accepted "christian" churches one quickly sees a broad spectrum of divergent incongruant beliefs on such basic tenets as the method of baptism, priesthood celebacy, the natures of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit, the reality of Christ and the atonement, etc, etc, etc.

    All proclaim an authoritative stance rooted in scripture and mortal interpretation. Each asserts their view to be the "correct" interpretation of holy writ.

    What unites all "christians", and is the only real test of christianity, is a fundamental belief that Jesus Christ, whether a manifestation of a trinity or a being separate from and an offspring of God, is the Savior of mankind; that only through Him can salvation be attained.

    In this, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is unequivocal in its proclomation. He is who He claimed, and only through Him and His atonement can we return to God. Therefore, they must be "christian".

  • happytobehere Fillmore, Utah
    July 17, 2011 3:06 p.m.

    To Missing Link:

    Respectfully, I am curious if you believe Catholics to be Christian?

  • LDSareChristians Anchorage, AK
    July 17, 2011 3:08 p.m.

    The Missing Link posted:
    Mormons agree with non-Mormons that their view of God is significantly different from the trinitarian view of the Nicene Creed of the 4th century.
    ====================================
    I must apologize, I clicked "recommend" when I thought I was clicking "reply", button is in same place in another forum where "reply" is selected.

    We're are different then the Nicene Creed, but the same as the NT.
    The Nicence Creed describes Christ that the NT didn't describe. LDS simply believe in Christ same as the NT, not some man made creed which modifies scripture.

    The idea that three beings are in substance the same being with 3 different personalities is preposterous. We are each a distinct being, and yet, we can be one with God, Christ and Holy Spirit, as they are one with each other.

    John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    However we as distinct beings can be one with them, they are distinct and yet one with each other.

  • Petra Sanpete County, UT
    July 17, 2011 3:14 p.m.

    Fox News. Nothing new. It's just that this time, we, as LDS, know the truth about ourselves - Mormons are Christian in every definition of the word - so we can see Fox News for what it is.

    Too bad most LDS cannot see the Fox News errors on other topics and simply take its word for what is "true."

  • Outsideview Federal Way, WA
    July 17, 2011 3:18 p.m.

    It is one thing to say something out of ignorance which is bad enough for a TV reporter but this person did intended to confey a false idea. I understand that there was a point to be made that LDS are not Evengelical Christians who are sure to support the Texas Governor but a good reporter would clarify that and not use the general term of Christian to say that Romney isnt their first choice.

    Very poor reporting and a case of the media favoring one chandidate over another.

  • Utah Girl Vernal, UT
    July 17, 2011 3:19 p.m.

    Thank you, runwasatch, for your comments back to Missing Link. Hey, Missing Link, of course there is additional scripture, and the verse in Revelations that says the no more can be added to THIS book, was referring only to the Book of Revelations. The Bible did not exist as a combined book at the time John wrote that. Do you think God is no longer capable of conversing with His children here on earth? I KNOW that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are 3 separate and distinct personages, who are united in action and purpose. Just because you do not does not make one of us Christian and one of us not. That is absurd. Even within the Protestant and Evangelical communities, there are differing beliefs in what Christ is and is not. We do not accept the Nicene Creed because it flies in the face of everything that Christ taught while He was on the Earth establishing His church.

    Can we not, as Christians, all agree that we disagree over our interpretations of Christ, but that we all DO agree that Jesus is the Christ, and that through Him we are saved? I hope so.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    July 17, 2011 3:19 p.m.

    @ Utah Girl | 1:28 p.m. July 17, 2011

    "Do black people picture Christ as black?" Actually, yes. I have seen some interpretations of a black Jesus just as I've seen Jesus in LDS chapels looking like Chad Kroeger when he should look like Max Klinger.

    That being said, why is it christians such as Palin, Rick Perry, John Hagee, Marcus, (who IMO looks like Benny Hill), etc.. ad infinitum remind me of the following by Gandhi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"

  • isrred Logan, UT
    July 17, 2011 3:30 p.m.

    It's pretty funny really: the new Chair of the state Democratic Party inviting LDS members to come into the fold where their differing views and values are accepted and tolerated, but most LDS voters still fall in lock step with a Republican Party that wants nothing to do with LDS beliefs or LDS candidates.

  • across the sea Topeno, Finland
    July 17, 2011 3:34 p.m.

    I have an interesting book marker between the pages of my Bible. It is a SL Tribune article where the Catholic Archbishop Niederaeur comments on Mormon Christian dilemma:
    He says: "If a person accepts Jesus as his/her personal Savior, and abides by it, then who am I to say, if he or she is a Christian, or not."

    Case Closed!

  • FriedChicken Twin Falls, Id
    July 17, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    Not being a religious person myself i have always found it interesting to see how religious people (mainly christian people) have the need to judge and decide who is more or less christian. when your books and leaders teach that your god or Christ or whomever say that you are not to judge other people but to accept and forgive all and that god will be the judge. so the fact that you are saying Mormons are not Christians is not your choice or anyone's but for your god to decide, right. and you should accept them for who they are because you are not the judge. i also find it incredibly surprising the amount of strong hate i see from Christians towards Mormons and other religions that aren't the same as there,s or even other christian religions, as if they are better, though on rare occasion do i see that hatred returned. so i think everyone should stop Waring and fighting over this subject because, its obviously not for you to decide, but gods

  • Bearone Monroe, UT
    July 17, 2011 3:43 p.m.

    True christians don't go around judging others on whether or not they are christians. They worry about their own faith first!

    This reporter is just another talking head looking for fame and fortune--to heck with the real facts.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 17, 2011 3:48 p.m.

    Unless Christ has taken the form of a television reporter, why are we concerned? It is He who will decide who is Christian and who is not.

  • justired Fillmore, UT
    July 17, 2011 3:57 p.m.

    what an un-christian thing to say

  • LeonardL Sandy, UT
    July 17, 2011 4:18 p.m.

    Not everyone at Fox News agrees with her on this subject. Sean Hannity, gave a great defense of the LDS Church on his Radio Show. Of course Glenn Beck is a Mormon and Bill Oreilly is Glenn Becks close friend. As long as Mormons have the big three on their side Mrs. Earhardt's ideas' wont effect too many.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    July 17, 2011 4:25 p.m.

    By their fruits ye shall know them.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    July 17, 2011 4:31 p.m.

    fred and mormondem

    I don't think the LDS people really care whether its right or left, just that they are understood. As for the right not accepting the LDS church, I think the left is diemetrically opposed to the tenenets of the LDS church. The left tends to make a mockery out of all the things that the LDS church holds near and dear to their hearts. The sanctity of marriage being a good example.

  • Montana Mormon Miles City, MT
    July 17, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    Yawn, so what else is new?

  • California Steve Hanford, CA
    July 17, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    Psst: MormonDem - so where are we supposed to go? To your beloved left wing with it's abortion and gay rights? I don't think so.

  • Clarissa Layton, UT
    July 17, 2011 4:45 p.m.

    The Merriam Webster dictionary's definition of a Christian is: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. By that definition Mormons are totally Christian. How can you believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ and not be Christian? Bizarre.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    July 17, 2011 4:53 p.m.

    Ainsley Earhardt's ignorance about our faith is a matter of surpassing indifference to the great majority of us. We're quite content to let our Lord make the decision as to whether we're Christians, and we seriously doubt He'll need much advice on the subject from Ms. Earhardt.

  • Benjamin Midvale, UT
    July 17, 2011 4:57 p.m.

    The Christian Coalition is about as Christian as the White House is patriotic. No Coalition or creed is going to dictate my testimony, or convictions on the Divinity of Christ.

    Matt. 7:15 - "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

  • spudlydoright McCammon, Idaho
    July 17, 2011 5:07 p.m.

    The whole Fox news infatuation by the right never ceases to amaze me, especially LDS people. They do not do their homework before making infantile comments, they edit others words to sound the way they want them to, they have an obvious agenda and have never been impartial, and LDS people think that they are a gift from heaven. Are we so desperate for someone who we think believes as we do that we have to essentially cut off our nose to spite our face.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    July 17, 2011 5:14 p.m.

    Yawn!

  • Jack Aurora, CO
    July 17, 2011 5:28 p.m.

    Until the Republican Party adopts a party plank that it doesn't like Mormons, that argument that they don't doesn't hold water. Some who claim to be Republican may not, but there are Democrats, Socialists, Communists, Greens, Tea Party, Libertarians and maybe even some purple spotted whatevers who hold that same opinion. So what is a Mormons to do? We follow our convictions, our faith and our values, that's what. Then, we find a party that most closely agrees with our views and vote that way. (kinda like the statement issued by the Brethren every election)

    Not hard, really.

  • Linus Bountiful, UT
    July 17, 2011 5:29 p.m.

    A day or two ago we read a piece in the Deseret News about the churches that are debating what to do about same-sex marriage. Every church mentioned was a "traditional, orthodox christian church." The debate also included discussion of what approach should be pursued regarding their gay clergy who are living with their gay partners without benefit of marriage. Some said they were going to require their gay clergy to marry their gay partners within a certain period of time.

    I find it interesting that many christian churches are turning their backs on Christ's morality. Yet the Evangelicals don't challenge their creds as "christians." Most Evangelicals and most Catholics march lock-step with Latter-day Saints in support of Christ's morality, even working together on Prop 8 to preserve marriage. When are the Evangelicals going to wake up and embrace their allies and challenge the liberal relativists instead.

  • ? SLC, UT
    July 17, 2011 5:35 p.m.

    I find it interesting how Democrats invite and keep reminding Mormon Republicans how the Republican party doesn't represent members of the church very well. Yet, I doubt there is any party who would represent any member of the church very well.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 17, 2011 5:41 p.m.

    One misinformed or bigoted reporter does not define a world religion nor it's members.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    July 17, 2011 5:53 p.m.

    Fox news is fair and balance so they must be right.

    That or Mormons needs to realize that this is just a further extent ion of a evangelical Christian right that will never accept them and only tolerate us enough to get our R vote.

    Wake up people, this guy isn't the only one at Fox news that thinks this way no matter how many letter you write to correct them.

    Anywhere you find hate and intolerance for one religion, you will find more, the far right evangelical right sees Mormons on the same level that they see Muslims.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    July 17, 2011 5:54 p.m.

    I think that the disconnect is if someone makes up a standard for what defines a "Christian" then they can apply that standard to whoever they like. If I define Christian as meaning "believing in the Nicene creed" then Mormons aren't Christians. How then does the typical reasonable listener define being Christian? Is it that a Christian believes that Jesus was the Son of God, that he suffered for men's sins and that he was crucified and resurrected? Then Mormons are Christians.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:06 p.m.

    Hate? Intolerance?

    Just because people don't believe you to be Christians does not constitute hate.

    But calling them haters because they do not agree with your theology IS hateful!

    Be careful, Mormons, you do not become the very thing you condemn!

  • Brightenpath Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:26 p.m.

    Ainsley corrected herself, according to comments on her Facebook page.

    "Jeff Wheeler - you better do your homework before you start reporting mormons arent christian..."
    "Joseph W. Adams III - Hey Jeff, Ainsley made a mistake and she corrected herself. I think you should give some credit for that."
    "Beverly Cluff ‎@ Joseph - can you tell me when and where the correction on Mormons was made?"
    "Joseph W. Adams III - Around 8:30 a.m., when talking about Mitt Romney."

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    July 17, 2011 6:27 p.m.

    Having been a former Protestant, converted to the LDS church, this discussion is so belabored that I think I will regurgitate.
    I saw the evolution of how Protestants have hijacked the name "Christian", as only pertaining to them.
    Enough!

  • FDRfan Sugar City, ID
    July 17, 2011 6:31 p.m.

    I hope this serves as a wake up call for Mormons to realize who they are in bed with. But what we really need is a Mormon Democrat in the race. And Utah just may lead the way in that effort. I sure like Utah's new Democrat Chairman. Utah voters remember: minds are like parachutes - they function best when opened.

  • CougarKeith Roy, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:33 p.m.

    What a Joke, Ainsley needs to be assigned a "REPORTING JOB" of "What DO Mormons Believe???" What a Joke!!!

  • GQ Monkee Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:37 p.m.

    @Vanka, let me get this straight. Bigoted rhetoric is not actually bigoted, but calling someone a bigot is? Saying ignorant, hateful things isn't really ignorant and hateful, but calling out the ignorance and hate is? Maybe I'm exaggerating your argument here, but how is it anything else but hate to publicly, on the national news, spreading lies to harm someone's career?

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:38 p.m.

    If you take the time to really study and understand the concepts presented in John 17 Christ consistently talks about him returning to his Father and he is here to do the Father's will, etc. Either he is talking about another person besides himself or he is using trickery to make it look the Father and He are two different people. He prayed to his Father, not to himself. He constantly talked about his Father. His Father spoke from Heaven at his baptism and on the Mount of Transfiguration. Is Christ simply a Ventroliquist. No he is not. He never used trickery to preach his message. When Stephen was stoned he looked into Heaven and saw Christ on the right hand of God. How can he stand on the right side of himself.

    When he spoke to Mary outside the tomb he said he had not ascended to his Father. This is straight forward talk, not trickery.

    The LDS Church does not believe in the trinity because we feel the bible is abundantly clear they are two separate beings as is the Holy Ghost separate from the Father and the Son.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:38 p.m.

    I find it interesting that Mormons are not considered "Christian" by the Protestant churches, however they do not say that the Baptist Church that goes around protesting all the military funerals are considered "Christian" just not part of the "regular" Baptist church.

    Odd, very odd.

    I guess Mormons really don't want to be part of "that" Christian Church, nor do I blame them.

  • Brightenpath Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:46 p.m.

    Moot.
    -
    The story is moot.
    -
    Ainsley corrected herself - 8:30am.
    -
    See the comments on her Facebook page.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:50 p.m.

    Dear Missing Link: Yes, there are errors in the bible. In the Lord's prayer it states; "Lead us not into temptation," but in James 1:13 James tells us: "neither tempteth he any man." Those are contradictory statements. If we believe the Bible is absolutely the word of God, every single word then we believe according to the Lord's prayer that he can lead us into temptation.

    In the Old Testament we read about Kings of Israel and Judah, recounting their acts, doing as their father David did. Now what did David do? He started out righteously, then became disobedient, then an adulterer and then a murderer. Yet, many of them did not abandon righteousness and others were totally decadent. Not until later in the scriptures did one author write about these leaders, "as David did at first". If we believe the others it was okay to be an adulterer and a murderer as David.

    Finally according to Biblical scholars and researchers the earliest copies of Mark end at Mark 16:8. Where did Mark 16:9 -20 come from? They have not been able to find that out.

    I could go on, but you get my point.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:54 p.m.

    So one of the blond fox babes on Fox News doesn't know what the heck she is talking about. What's new?

  • bluecoug89 Highland, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:55 p.m.

    My question is, who has the right to say whether one is a "Christian" or not. It seems to me that the very people who are assigning Christian titles are the ones who are least like him.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2011 6:56 p.m.

    Like it or not the bible belt right wingers don not like certain other religions. religion is what the conservative party is all about and a candidate has to be in one approved by the core.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    July 17, 2011 7:17 p.m.

    fdrfan

    "what we need is a mormon democrat in the race." We have one and his name is Huntsman.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 17, 2011 7:28 p.m.

    One Vote.... it isn't just the bible belt right wingers that have issues.... you will find just as many churches in other parts of the country that do likewise. When I lived in Washington State, one of the largest anti churches was located down the street from me.

    In fact, living here in the south, I have been really well received, and openly accepted. We have participated in Upward Basketball, invited to participate with their Wednesday night bible study, participate in their family service missions, our ward was invited and participated with one Baptist group that ran a home for families that were getting back on their feet.

    Sure there has been groups and people, but that is everywhere.

    Am I surprised a ultra conservative media outlet has some that think Mormons don't fit their definition Christian. I am equally sure there are those at the other networks that have other issues with other parts of our faith.... such is life. We are hardly alone in this. These kind of people usually have issues with all kids of people - and I just don't care. I know what I believe, and what they think changes nothing.

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2011 7:29 p.m.

    A Fox News host doesn't think Romney's a Christian, and GOP candidate Herman Cain thinks American cities should be allowed to ban the building of Muslim Churches ... and presumably any other churches they don't like.

    Explain to me again why so many members of the LDS Church vote Republican? Does not compute.

  • peter Alpine, UT
    July 17, 2011 8:26 p.m.

    And this guy has some credibility because he's a news host? His position is reason enough not to believe a thing he says. The media is there to stir the public through misinformation, and they do a great job of it! Do you think they would just go away if we ignored them altogether? Just some wishful thinking.

  • RantBully Bend, OR
    July 17, 2011 9:20 p.m.

    It bothers me as a Mormon to hear individuals like Ainsley Earhardt proclaim we are not Christians. Yet, it is best to not get too upset and try to be clear about what we do believe so that such misconceptions can be dismissed. Unfortunately, there are many outside the LDS Church who like making statements like Earhardt's in order to irritate us. It is best not to let that happen. I don't think Ainsley Earhardt wished to cut down the LDS faith (I hope not). It would be appropriate for her and Fox News to apologize to the members of the LDS faith including Mitt Romney for such a comment. I am curious to see if that occurs. I personally think Fox News is one of the more fair and accurate news stations, but I also believe their is much dislike towards the LDS Church from its Christian roots. It is fair to say they do like us for our usually conservative politics, but not as much for supporting a Republican Presidential candidate like Mitt Romney. Sean Hannity is fair to Romney, but I am not sure about others. Obviously, Huckabee does not like the LDS Church.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    July 17, 2011 9:28 p.m.

    Let's look at it this way:

    When speaking about Romney, Earhardt said "I think (Perry) can get a lot of money from [the Christian Coalition] because (of) Romney obviously not being a Christian.

    Now compare.

    In speaking about ALL other religions and religious preachers, Joseph Smith said,

    "...they were all wrong; ...all their creeds were an abomination in [God's] sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof'" (Joseph Smith History, 1:19).

    Which of these is more "hateful"?

    By their fruits ye shall know them, right?

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    July 17, 2011 9:29 p.m.

    Mormonism is to Christianity what Christianity was to Judaism-------- change, it seems, takes decades and centuries. And even when you feel you have arrived, you still have a long way to go. Little wonder Jesus said if you think you can see, you can't, and if you can't see, then that is why He came.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2011 9:42 p.m.

    Isn't it just lovely when an advocate in the media decides to pay tribute to and promote the "preach for filthy lucre" lobby who obviously hate Mormons and what they stand for. I hope the LDS faithful question their allegiances to listening to Fox News.

  • Heidi T. Farmington, Utah
    July 17, 2011 10:38 p.m.

    Ainsley, get a grip on your profession. Read the news. Be aware. Investigate your information. You are busted! What will FOX news say? Can't wait to hear.

  • cymrul West Valley City, UT
    July 17, 2011 10:50 p.m.

    Just get used to it. This isn't going to go away any time soon. You can't change peoples opinions over night.

  • Essence of the Eagle Provo, Utah
    July 17, 2011 10:51 p.m.

    Who cares? If you believe in Christ then that's great, if your ideas are not the same as the mainstream then that's okay too. Embrace your differences and uniqueness. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be part of the so called Christian Club anyways. It's almost comical how both sides get so worked up. It's like two children arguing, "You are not Christian!" "Yes, I am. You are the one that isn't Christian!"

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    July 17, 2011 10:53 p.m.

    Some people don't like Mormons for the same reason the early Christians were disliked: They claimed to have the whole truth and therefore others were wrong. This made people mad and they spread ugly rumors about the Christians. The Romans talking to Paul said: "for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against." Christians were accused of canabalism, incest and a lot of other bad stuff--all distortions of their beliefs. Unfortunately, some modern "Christians" use the same tactics against the Mormons as the ancient enimies of Christianity used against the original Christians. Mocking and redicule and deception are not what I would consider Christian behavior, but some "Christians" think it is OK. Go figure! I take some comfort in Jesus' reasuring remarks: "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    July 17, 2011 10:54 p.m.

    Republicans Mormons say that the alternative is worse but how many Republican policies have resulted in lost lives? You claim "right to life" but have no problem with a Republican president ordering military campaigns in 2 wars that kill many civilians. Your policies of supporting big banks and big businesses at the expense of the poor and elderly are also shameful. IMO, no party has the claim to "right to life". I used to be a Republican but as I learn more about the teachings of Jesus Christ and saw what happened to Mitt Romney in the South last election, I knew I was not welcome in the intolerant Republican party.

  • Californian#1@94131 San Francisco, CA
    July 17, 2011 10:57 p.m.

    Ho hum.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 17, 2011 11:03 p.m.

    Counter... wrong.... most of us ex-republicans are going independent, and is one of the biggest reasons that voters registered as independent is the fastest growing block of voters. In fact in the state of Utah, there are nearly identical number of voters registered as independents as there are republican... with Democrat coming in third.

    In the last round of numbers of new registrations I saw, Republican numbers dropped by 500, Democrats gained 300, and 5,000 registered as independents. Much of the newer voters are not registering red, but rather choose people rather than parties. It doesn't mean that these people will not ultimately vote for Republicans, but it does cut off some financial air to the Utah Party, and it will in order to keep its influence resort to out of state funds to compete.

    The days of the two parties thinking they can ignore the middle will be short. Presidential elections bring out a much larger electorate than do the mid term elections where mostly only the hard core show up to vote. 2010 was no indication of 2012. Both parties have a lot to loose by ignoring the middle.

  • La Tortuga Murray, UT
    July 17, 2011 11:23 p.m.

    As a non-religious person I find these religious debates absolutely fascinating from an purely academic perspective. The thing that always surprises me is that Mormons care so much about people labeling them "Christian". It's all semantics, so why care?

    As I see it, I think christoph nailed it when he/she said "Mormonism is to Christianity what Christianity was to Judaism". Although I believe christoph's intention was to illustrate more complete vs. less complete comparisons, I would focus on the adding of scripture to each that makes them very different belief systems (and should be classified as such). Protestants, Catholics, and Baptists differ mostly on chain of clergy command and minor scriptural interpretations--they are all very different than Mormonism (pre-existence, godhead, exaltation, salvation, etc).

    I mean this with no disrespect, but imagine a religion that said Jesus was the key to salvation and their church, BUT he is currently living in the jungles of the Amazon and wants us to wear red fedoras and eat nothing but cabbage. My guess is LDS members would not want to embrace this religion as a "Christian" classification peer. LDS doctrine seems just as foreign to the "Christian" churches.

  • inmyopinion88 WEST JORDAN, UT
    July 17, 2011 11:27 p.m.

    The GOP and its "supporters" need to quit bickering over petty issues and come together. Candidates need to be judged on the basis of their character and track record. A party divided cannot win local, state, and national elections.

  • Terry Sandy, UT
    July 17, 2011 11:39 p.m.

    It is amazing that the ignorant Vocal minority are still given a microphone to preach their hate and bigotry from. I hope this greatly mis-informed and bigoted person does not have their job at Fox News for much longer to be able to spread their mis-information from.

    The literal definition of a Christian is one who believes, accepts and follows Christ. As the LDS religion centers itself in Jesus Christ and is one of the only religions in the world that actually has the name "Jesus Christ" in the name of the church, saying this religion is not christian is laughable and shows complete ignorance. Thank goodness this opinion is relegated to a fairly small minority of people who for some reason still harbor hate and bigotry in their hearts to want to tear down others beliefs with absolutely no logic to their argument!

    Perhaps you could say these hate filled people are not Christians though, because it appears they are not truly following Christ with their hatred and bigotry towards Mormons!

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    July 17, 2011 11:45 p.m.

    "UtahBlueDevil | 11:03 p.m. July 17, 2011
    Durham, NC
    Counter... wrong.... most of us ex-republicans are going independent, and is one of the biggest reasons that voters registered as independent is the fastest growing block of voters. "

    I am right there with you. I am also not amused at how the Republican party grew the national debt with multi trillions under Bush but now are suddenly worried about the deficit they helped balloon.

  • Gramajane OAKLEY, ID
    July 18, 2011 12:08 a.m.

    It would be interesting to see what scriptural foundation some suppose there is in the Bible for there not being any more scriptures than what is IN the MAN compiled Bible, when the Bible it's self mentions other books of scripture not found in it ;)
    --- OR where it says God isn't speaking to us, his children any more either, when the Bible it's self shows some IT calls prophets
    ( which I might add the 12 apostles are ALSO so titled) like Agubus

    Acts 11:27 "And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
    28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar."

    Also read John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
    3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me."

    --- pretty sad for those who persucute other Christians - like Mormons.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2011 12:36 a.m.

    @Helloooo
    "If the acceptance of the doctrines of false leaders of Christianity during the 3rd, 4th, and 5th centuries that repudiated and rejected the gospel as accepted and taught by Christ and his apostles"

    Wait a minute... to criticize a charge that Mormonism isn't Christian... you counter by saying other denominations rejected the gospel of Christ... are you the pot or the kettle?

  • sLvRsRfR WESTMINSTER, CO
    July 18, 2011 1:18 a.m.

    @La Tortuga "the adding of scripture to each that makes them very different belief systems (and should be classified as such)" Except, you fail to realize that this "adding of scripture" is a RESTORATION of Christianity's original teachings and not actually a different religion. Unlike Judaism, it is not a fundamental change from an old covenant to a new but rather a continuation of that which was lost. Technically speaking, Christianity is also a continuation of Judaism. It is only considered a seperate religion by those who reject the "adding of scripture" in the New Testamen, and which was also given by that same God who revealed his law unto Moses.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    July 18, 2011 3:00 a.m.

    Very funny to see the reaction to this from conservative Mormons who worship fox news as infalibla only to be disappointed with reality. I get my news from multiple sources. Just wait until someone like Perry jumps in the race and Fox will be submarining ol Mitty. They will play up all the Mormon misconceptions in their famous ? style that implies the point.

    Fox style:
    Do Mormons worship satan?
    Are Mormons un-American?
    Who is more evil, Muslims or Mormons?

    They will also call Mitt something by accident like Jeffery dhamer or run oj's picture

  • Jared Gainesville, FL
    July 18, 2011 4:22 a.m.

    Re: CougarBlue "The LDS Church does not believe in the trinity because we feel the bible is abundantly clear they are two separate beings as is the Holy Ghost separate from the Father and the Son."

    We do not believe in the Trinity because Joseph Smith saw two separate beings. The fact that scriptures support that experience is secondary.

    Why many Christians do not call members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Christian is because we Mormons reject the Creeds of early Christianity. We also believe in an open and expanding canon of scripture. Those two things get at the root of why many other people don't consider Mormons Christian. There are other reasons too though.

    In any case, I'd venture that most people who call themselves Christian who actually know Mormons believe or accept that we LDS are Christian, there just is a vocal minority who continue to believe the same falsehoods about Mormons - that won't ever change so we say, "Yes, we are Christian" and go on trying to live as the Savior intends us to live.

  • BrentBot Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2011 5:09 a.m.

    It was an emperor (Constantine) who introduced a term, homousious, which defined the Son as consubstantial (one being) with the Father. Neither term or anything like it is in the New Testament. Harpers Bible Dictionary entry on the Trinity says the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament. Furthermore, 11 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence (including future Presidents)were non-Trinitarian Christians. Wouldn't they be surprised one of their own was rejected by some Americans for not believing in the Fourth Century (man-made) Trinity.

  • Major Bidamon Birmingham, AL
    July 18, 2011 7:39 a.m.

    I don't know why Mormons get upset when people say they're not Christian. As a people, we generally have no problem excluding Community of Christ (RLDS), FLDS, etc. from the title of "Mormon". A wise person said recently ... "we are ALL Latter Day Saints! ALL OF US. Even if change things, break the rules, or doubt the God Exists!"

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2011 8:15 a.m.

    I'll ask again.

    Why do Mormons support the Republican party?

    When THIS is the type of support the Republican party and most conservatives give Mormons?

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 18, 2011 8:27 a.m.

    Keep watching Fox News, Utahns. Where else are you going to be told how to vote now that the church will no longer tell you who to vote for.

  • The Vanka Provo, UT
    July 18, 2011 8:40 a.m.

    BrentBot is mistaken about Constantine and the concept of "homousious" (sic).

    Constantine did not "introduce" anything. He merely called upon Church leaders to "correlate" (in LDS terms) the doctrines extant at the time.

    The mystical (gnostic) concept of "omoousios" that underpins the Trinitarian conception of God predates Jesus by several hundred years.

    Pre-Christian Jewish Wisdom literature, allegory of Greek myth, Egyptian cosmology, and other texts contain descriptions and references to this concept.

    Many passages as well as entire texts of Gnostic literature are pre-Christian in origin. The "Hymn of the Pearl," before its name-change. "Thunder: Perfect Mind" (Ptolemaic, as early as 350 BCE), Isis doxophony, the Sethian
    "Apocalypse of Adam" (c. 200 BCE), all demonstrate these ideas are pre-Christian, which is obviously pre-Constantine. Pagels, Meyer, Turner, Pearson and others would agree.

    So be careful what you trust from people like BrentBot.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    July 18, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    Brentbot said, It was an emperor (Constantine) who introduced a term, homousious)?
    (Jesus)Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person(hypostasis,5287)(Hebrews 1:3) substance, real being,same nature, of a person or thing.

    RE: Helloo. A person who claims the doctrine of the Trinity is false because the word Trinity is not found in Scripture is as foolish as someone who claims 3½ inches, or say, 5¼ centimeters do not exist because his ruler only shows whole numbers. The Doctrine of the Trinity is presented in Scripture clearly enough for the spiritual people to recognize, and solidly enough for unspiritual people to stumble over.
    Hear , O Israel : The LORD(YHWH) our God(Elohim) the LORD(YHWH) is ONE. Dt 6:4 (The Shema,*NAME)
    N.T. Trinitarian statement: Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in* the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit(pneuma), Matthew 28:19 (NIV) *to onoma,the Name ,Good Greek grammar.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2011 8:56 a.m.

    I agree with the vast majority here that the reporter is using a subjective definition of the term "Christian". LDS and traditional Christians share the same doctrine and culture FAR FAR more often than not but because we are different in one or two things that they feel are important, they feel that they have to label us as non-Christians.

    It's ironic that many LDS do the exact same thing to same-sex couples. Opposite-sex families and same-sex families share the same family challenges and culture FAR FAR more often than not but because the latter are different in one or two things that many LDS and others feel are important, they feel that they have to deny the same-sex families the term "marriage".

    The disgust, frustration and hurt we LDS feel about this reporters words is the same feelings same-sex couples feel when LDS and others justify denying gays marriage likewise using subjective definitions that don't reflect reality.

    Hurts doesn't it?

    We can't really be righteously indignant over this when we are doing the exact same thing.

    Think about it.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    July 18, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    BrentBot is mistaken about Constantine and the concept of "homousious" (sic).

    Constantine did not "introduce" anything. He merely called upon Church leaders to "correlate" (in LDS terms) the doctrines extant at the time.

    The mystical (gnostic) concept of "omoousios" that underpins the Trinitarian conception of God predates Jesus by several hundred years.

    Pre-Christian Jewish Wisdom literature, allegory of Greek myth, Egyptian cosmology, and other texts contain descriptions and references to this concept.

    Many passages as well as entire texts of Gnostic literature are pre-Christian in origin. The "Hymn of the Pearl," before its name-change. "Thunder: Perfect Mind" (Ptolemaic, as early as 350 BCE), Isis doxophony, the Sethian
    "Apocalypse of Adam" (c. 200 BCE), all demonstrate these ideas are pre-Christian, which is obviously pre-Constantine. Pagels, Meyer, Turner, Pearson and others would agree.

    So be careful what you trust from people like BrentBot.

  • raybies Layton, UT
    July 18, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    Mormons are Christians in the sense that Christ would use... don't know about men though. They tend to use labels to divide.

  • Old Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2011 9:13 a.m.

    Everyone is so worried about labels. It is silly.

    Let's label this guy a clown and move on!

  • The Vanka Provo, UT
    July 18, 2011 9:17 a.m.

    As BrentBot demonstrates, LDS theology (after Talmage, Roberts and others "correlated" it) teaches that Jesus is the Jehovah of the Old Testament (the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob); that Jehovah is not God, the Father.

    Instead, God, the Father, is named Elohim (which is a Hebrew word meaning plural gods); and that the Holy Ghost is some unidentified third "god" (in training?). LDS also believe that good mortal men may "earn their exaltation"
    through good works and thereby achieve "godhood" themselves, being able to produce unlimited offspring ("a continuation of the seeds forever and ever" D&C 132:19).

    LDS are clearly polytheists, and Jesus is just one of many gods in an eternal hierarchical pyramid program. The LDS Jesus as well as the Father, are just "glorified and exalted men". That is not the Jesus in which Christians have believed for 2,000 years.

    Surely you can understand how 2,000 years of Christian tradition does not accept such ideas and the people who espouse them as "Christian".

    You attack and reject 2,000 years of Christianity, and then whine when you are not called Christians?

  • The Vanka Provo, UT
    July 18, 2011 9:37 a.m.

    Mormons are Christians because Joseph saw Christ in the First Vision?

    Not exactly.

    Joseph wrote several accounts of the vision beginning in 1832, but none of the accounts was published until the 1840s. The First Vision was essentially unknown to early Latter Day Saints, not becoming important in the movement until the early-20th century.

    Accounts differ as to whether he determined on his own that there was no existing religion built upon the true teachings of Jesus, or whether the idea that all churches were false had not entered his heart until he experienced the vision. No members of the Smith family were members of any church before 1820, the reported date of the First Vision.

    He said he saw one or more "personages," described differently in Smith's accounts. In one, Smith said he "saw the Lord." In diary entries, he said he saw a "visitation of Angels" or a "vision of angels" that included "a personage," and then "another personage" who testified that "Jesus Christ is the Son of God," as well as "many angels". In later accounts, Smith consistently said that he had seen two personages who appeared sequentially, one _after_ the other.

  • brokenclay Scottsdale, AZ
    July 18, 2011 9:56 a.m.

    Orthodox Christians take very seriously the biblical teaching that there is only one God. That is why they are Trinitarian, not tri-theist. They also take seriously the fact that three individuals are called "God" in the Scripture. That is why they are not Sabellians. Mormonism is blatantly polytheistic. Polytheism and monotheism are mutually exclusive. There is no way they can be reconciled. Both cannot genuinely be called Christian.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    July 18, 2011 10:01 a.m.

    LDSareChristians,

    All religions are MAN MADE. The New Testamaent was written by men. Their views are just that, THEIR views on what God is or what God says.

    The Nicean Creed is also MAN MADE as is the LDS Articles of Faith as written by a MAN, Joseph Smith.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    July 18, 2011 10:12 a.m.

    Utah Girl,

    How do you KNOW anything about the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? I think you mean that you BELEIVE in them and that they are 3 distinct beings. Mormons always talk about how they KNOW this they KNOW that and proclaim their perfect knowledge of the truthfulness of the "Church" or gospel or Book of Mormon.

    Christians and most all the other religions don't have the KNOWLEDGE that their professed religion is true but rather they BELIEVE their religion to be of God. Mormons have a need to reinforce every week and at minimum, every 1st Sunday of the month their supposed KNOWLEDGE of the truthfulness of the LDS church, Joseph Smith, etc.

    Why?

  • ? SLC, UT
    July 18, 2011 10:13 a.m.

    Most of us all make mistakes and says things that shouldn't be said, or say things that can be taken out of context and then blown out of preportion including reporters and politicians. Perhaps we all could learn to be a little more professional and considerate of others. Myself included.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    The problem with the Athanasian Trinity is that it is non-Biblical having its origins in Greek/pagan philosophy. Those philosophers (Plato, Aristotle, etc...) spoke of God's "essense", "nature", etc... heb. 1:3 DISproves the Trinity. Sharrona forgot to address the phrase "express image". This means "exact representation". The Greek words used here also refer to the image of the Roman empreror on a coin. Christ is the perfect representation of the Father. That's why Christ said that if we have seen him, we have seen the Father.

    A few verses later (v.9), the Father refers to Christ as God, but then refers to Himself as Christ's God. Paul also refers to the Father as the God of Christ. If Christ is God, how can HE have a God? If Christ has everything that the Father has, what can Christ inherit from the Father? Yet Rom. 8 says that we will be joint-heirs with Christ.

    The bottom line is that the Atathanasian Trinity is AT BEST a possible theory, but there is NO WAY that it is objectively true or that belief in it it should be used to determine whether one is a Christian.

  • whoisjohngalt Holladay, UT
    July 18, 2011 10:31 a.m.

    Well he is Christian, but he is also a socialist. I'm LDS and I support the Constitution and Ron Paul!

  • Fender Bender Saint George, UT
    July 18, 2011 10:42 a.m.

    What's the big deal here? I can't understand why everyone is so upset. She's a Fox News correspondent, so she's not an "expert", and she's not expected to get her facts straight. Fox News only claims to be "fair and balanced", not truthful, accurate or relevant.

  • ? SLC, UT
    July 18, 2011 10:58 a.m.

    Sometimes I think different terms are used that mean essentially the same thing, like Trinity and Godhead. The definitions are similar, yet different wording is used that makes it confusing to know if they are saying the same thing or not.

    One example is how Brokenclay explains, "Orthodox Christians take very seriously the biblical teaching that there is only one God...They also take seriously the fact that three individuals are called "God" in the Scripture."

    In the BookofMormon it says the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God. There is even at least one reference where the Savior was referred as both Father and the Son. Yet, both the Bible and BookofMormon have several references that make it clear that they are indeed three individuals, yet are one with each other. There are witnesses who saw both together like Stephen in the Bible, and Joseph Smith and others heard the voice of the Father declaring His Son like when the Savior was baptized and in 3 Nephi where the Savior appears to the people after His resurrection.

    The Savior prayed that we might be one with them, as He and the Father are one.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    'She's a Fox News correspondent, so she's not an "expert", and she's not expected to get her facts straight. Fox News only claims to be "fair and balanced", not truthful, accurate or relevant.' - Fender Bender | 10:42 a.m. July 18, 2011

    Supported:

    *'Univ. of Maryland study finds Fox News viewers to be misinformed on key issues' - By Ryan Witt - Examiner - 12/17/10

    'Over 40% of respondents said President Obama started TARP even though TARP was signed into law by President Bush on October 3rd of 2008.'

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    July 18, 2011 11:50 a.m.

    When someone offhandedly says a Mormon is not Christian, they are called a "hater" and "bigoted".

    When LDS official scripture calls ALL other religions "abominations" and their preachers "all corrupt", it is "preaching the gospel in love".

    When someone mentions that LDS theology is fundamentally polytheistic, they are horrible, biased "anti's" and enemies of God.

    But when LDS declare that the Christian Creeds that have defined Western Civilization and Christianity for two millenia are "all wrong" and corrupted with "the commandments of men", and "denying the power of God", they call it a loving "restoration".

    Jesus said, "Take heed that ye do not your [religious practices] before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine [religious practices], do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, [and on the internet, the news, and social networking sites] that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward" (Matt.6:1-2).

    Luke_6:46
    "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

  • sharrona layton, UT
    July 18, 2011 12:04 p.m.

    lds4gaymarriage said, "express image". This means "exact representation". The Greek words used here also refer to the image of the Roman emperor on a coin, Wrong.

    Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image=(karacter,*5481) of his person(hypostasis,*5287)(Hebrews 1:3),*substance, real being, same nature, of a person or thing. *the very character of God, NLT.

    Hebrews 9,see Psalm 45:6. Co-Heirs with Christ (Romans 7:17) see verse 16, you received the spirit of sonship (by adoption),and cry Abba Father.

    If Christianity was something we were making up, of course we would make it easier. But it is not. We cannot compete, in simplicity, with people who are inventing religions [JS]. How could we? We are dealing with fact. Of course anyone can be simple if he has no facts to bother about." The three personal God Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis gives some other analogies of the Tri- Unity.

    RE: ? ,JS taught monotheism,1 John 5:7 (KJV&JST) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one (hen 1520). The #1.

  • Furry1993 Somewhere in Utah, UT
    July 18, 2011 12:07 p.m.

    To KM | 7:17 p.m. July 17, 2011
    Cedar Hills, UT
    fdrfan

    "what we need is a mormon democrat in the race." We have one and his name is Huntsman.

    ----------------------------

    Not true. Jon Huntsman, Jr., is a conservative Republican (not an extreme far right wing ideologue, I grant you, but a true conservative nevertheless).

  • paperboy111 Lindon, UT
    July 18, 2011 12:24 p.m.

    Another perfect example illustrating why Fox News, so loved by LDS members, while supporting the Republican Party, actually has a strong anti-Mormon bias. Mormons would be well-served to support other news outlets.

  • seeswater Vernal, UT
    July 18, 2011 12:26 p.m.

    As far as the Nicene Creed goes, I would pay somebody $10 who can understand that drivel. It's the most unreadable thing I've ever had the displeasure of reading.

  • Aggielove Junction city, Oregon
    July 18, 2011 12:43 p.m.

    Quit watching all news shows, and your life will be enriched with peace.

  • Fender Bender Saint George, UT
    July 18, 2011 12:49 p.m.

    I'm LDS, and I have no problem with somebody saying Mormons aren't Christian. While we share many common beliefs with other so-called Christian denominations, there are plenty of major doctrinal differences between Mormonism and "traditional" Christianty. I see no point in getting upset over what is basically a question of semantics.

    Why would I complain about not being admitted to a club that doesn't want me? As a moderate conservative (aka RINO), this is the same reason I consider myself an independent instead of a Republican.

    Any group that is defined by who it excludes will eventually find its influence has eroded over time. Given enough time, such groups will be forced to rethink their exclusionary ideology or be rejected by the majority.

  • md Cache, UT
    July 18, 2011 1:03 p.m.

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
    Enough said.

  • Europe Topeno, Finland
    July 18, 2011 1:10 p.m.

    I am NOT gay, not republican, not democrat, not EVEN an American...
    So NOW that cuts down over half of the comments ...

    The original question was simply a quotation by a Fox reporter wondering wether Romney is a Christian, or not.

    Well, sometimes I, too, wonder about politicians (wherever they are) what they really believe in.

    I was raised a protestant/Lutheran and interested in religion... Saw two missionaries on the street and stopped them to tell them how wrong they were... BUT they told me simple facts/truths that I had known as a child.
    That is why I am LDS, and try my best to live a Christian life.
    Not judging others, as it is not mine to do, but respecting and honoring - AND trying to understand this FREE AGENCY of ours.

    Well, am I a CHRISTIAN - the Lord knows.

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    July 18, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    Methinks your average Evangelical is not Christian. They don't act like it.

  • Hawkyo SYRACUSE, UT
    July 18, 2011 2:52 p.m.

    Three words: Do your research!
    One of the only things I remember about the journalism merit badge from my scouting days is to make sure my sources were giving me accurate information. This proves once again that "responsible journalism" is an oxymoron.

  • ? SLC, UT
    July 18, 2011 2:56 p.m.

    Re: Sharrona

    "RE: ? ,JS taught monotheism,1 John 5:7 (KJV&JST) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one (hen 1520). The #1."

    -----

    I dont know that Joseph Smith taught monotheism or polytheism. Not sure which it is or if it should be called something else altogether. There seems to be a difference in interpretation of what (one) means. In this sense, I dont think one means the number 1, like three means the number 3.

    I think LDS4gaymarriage explained it very well about the express image of his person from Hebrew 1:3 and used the analogy of an image on a coin. I also think his explanation was good for Hebrews 1:8-9, where it seems to show that the Father refers to Christ as God, but then refers to Himself as Christ's God.

  • stgjazzfan Saint George, UT
    July 18, 2011 3:33 p.m.

    I once asked a Minister in his office alone, if he could explain to me the Nicene Creed. After a long discussion it ended with the statement, that man is not able to comprehend such things. so there you go, the Creed was written by polititions, hence it is not for man or dare I say even God Himself to understand.

  • Hawkyo SYRACUSE, UT
    July 18, 2011 3:57 p.m.

    I have trouble understanding why so many protestant denominations cling to creeds set forth by the (can I call them ancient?) Caltholics, when many of the reformers pointed to such creeds as being distinctly different from biblical teachings. Martin Luther opened up a can of worms, and we still can't get the lid on! I have friends from many different denominations, and several who profess no religion at all. We're able to be friends because we focus on things and ideas we have in common. Christ certainly didn't have everything in common with the publicans and the harlots, but he focused on the important similarities, and was able to help them despite not agreeing with their sins. We (all man kind) could learn a lot from that example.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 18, 2011 4:00 p.m.

    Is Ainsley Earhardt a Christian?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    July 18, 2011 4:02 p.m.

    these juvenile , false and ignorant attacks against Romney aren't going to end from some of the fringe right but something that needs to be considered is do they want 4 more years of Barack Hussin Obama or do they want to get behind the only man (or woman) who can really beat him - Mitt Romney. By torpedoing Romney with these tired old anti-christian accusations they are also giving real aid to Barack Obama's re-election campaign. These far right loonies are going to have to face the music at some point and realize the ONLY hope they have of getting rid of the worst president in US history - the socialist and apologizer n chief himself Barack Hussin OBama - is to get behind the one man with the economic experience and reputation and governing experience to boot - Mitt Romney.

  • cval Hyde Park, UT
    July 18, 2011 4:03 p.m.

    Don't you know if you put someone in front of a microphone, then anything they say is true and well informed?

    She expressed her opinion as fact. Journalists sometimes do that. It does show her lack of professionalism thought.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2011 4:36 p.m.

    Sharrona
    lds4gaymarriage said, "express image". This means "exact representation". The Greek words used here also refer to the image of the Roman emperor on a coin, Wrong.

    LDS4
    Strong's Concordance 5480/5481 shows that it is a copy or representation and not the original. Sorry.

    Sharrona
    ..you received the spirit of sonship (by adoption)

    LDS4
    Agreed, but what does CHRIST receive that he, from all eternity, didn't already have?

    Sharrona
    The three personal God Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis gives some other analogies of the Tri- Unity.

    LDS4
    It's still based on Greek paganism and not Biblical. Regarding the Trinity, you don't know what you say nor whereof you affirm.

    Sharrona
    RE: ? ,JS taught monotheism,1 John 5:7 (KJV&JST) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one (hen 1520). The #1.

    LDS4
    Jn. 17:11, 20-22 explain that oneness. How can man, Chirst, and the Father be one when all 3 have different natures per Trinitarianism? Trinitarianism comes from the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    July 18, 2011 5:40 p.m.

    Doesn't Glenn Beck work at Fox? Isn't he LDS?

    Maybe Glenn ought to pay a little visit to Ainsley Earhardt and straighten her out. They must know each other, or at least about each other.

    It'll be interesting to see if Fox corrects this, such as getting Earhardt to apologize publicly on her program.

    It's this kind of intentional misconceptions about Mormons that'll keep one from ever becoming President.

    Kind of similar to how Middle East haters brainwash their children about America. Similar hate-provoked propaganda.

  • johnnyboy Coeur D Alene, ID
    July 18, 2011 5:42 p.m.

    If the republicans can't get it right, lets vote for Obama...he doesn't have a problem with Romneys religion..thank you

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    July 18, 2011 6:28 p.m.

    With the many varied definitions of what a Christian is that are out there, it would seem that most everyone could claim to be a Christian. This definition thing is crazy at best. Basically, if you profess a belief in Jesus Christ as your savior, you can claim to be a Christian. From there it depends on which denomination you want to follow.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2011 6:32 p.m.

    @patriot
    "realize the ONLY hope they have of getting rid of the worst president in US history"

    Buchanan's our president? Hoover? Harding? Andrew Johnson? That guy who came before Buchanan but whose name escapes me at the moment? Grant?

    Please... Obama came in with -700k jobs lost the month he took the oath of office. We now have 16 straight months of private sector job growth. Things aren't great but they certainly weren't made worse with Obama.

    Oh, Pierce... that's who I was thinking of...

    Also, Huntsman has better odds of beating Obama than Romney does. Huntsman has appeal to moderates/independents while not having instituted a statewide health inusrance mandate.

  • LordPillsbury Mcminnville, OR
    July 18, 2011 7:29 p.m.

    Do you believe that Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross and that the Spirit Being Jesus went to a place called paradise and that his dead body was laid in the tomb?
    Luke 23:33,43 & 53 & James 2:26

    Do you believe that after 3 days the Spirit of Christ reunited with the body in the tomb and the body was changed from mortal to immortal and from corruption to incorruption?
    Acts 2:31-32 1Corinthians 15:4,53-55.

    Do you believe Christ when He showed his immortal body to his Apostles and testified that His resurrected body was a body of flesh and bones?
    Luke 24:36-39 John 20:27 Acts 1:3

    Do you believe Christ when He testified that he would never die again, that he was alive forever more?
    Rev 1:18 Romans 6:9

  • LordPillsbury Mcminnville, OR
    July 18, 2011 7:30 p.m.

    Part II

    Do you believe that the Man Christ Jesus has a glorious resurrected body of flesh and bones today or did he die again and is now just a spirit?
    Romans 6:9 Philippians 3:21 1John 3:2 James 2:26 Acts 1:11

    If Christ did die a second death and no longer has a resurrected body of flesh and bones and is now just a spirit, can you have a hope of a resurrected glorious body like Christ's if He does not have one?
    Philippians 3:21 Romans 6:5 1Corinthians 15:12-17

    The creeds of men say that "There is but one only living and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions." (The Westminster Confession of Faith)

    Do you believe the Bible and in the resurrection of Christ or do you believe the creeds of men?

  • sharrona layton, UT
    July 18, 2011 7:59 p.m.

    LDS4,Modern translations are helpful:
    The Son is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact representation (karacter) of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.(Hebrews 1:3 NIV)

    The Son radiates Gods own glory and expresses the very character of God. Hebrews 1:3 NLT).
    One of the reasons I left the church, the Bishop told me I could only use the KJV, He even highlighted the verses for me to read. He was not aware I could read (Biblical) Greek.

    (Christians)receive the spirit of sonship (by adoption)Jesus is God: In the beginning was the Word (Jesus),and the Word was with God, and the Word was God(John 1:1) And the Word(Jesus) became flesh(John 1:14) God becomes man not man becomes God.

    The word "Trinity" was first used by Tertullian (c.155-230)well before the Nicene creed.

    Let us make man in Our Image image and likeness (Genesis 1:26)So God created man in His OWN(spiritual) Image male and female(Genesis 1:27) If there were more than one God it would read in their image. The Trinity in the O.T.

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    July 18, 2011 8:47 p.m.

    It seems that the moderator objects to me wondering at the quality of Christianity practiced by evangelicals.

  • texasnexus Keller, TX
    July 18, 2011 8:52 p.m.

    What is it with the "fair and balanced" network. As a conservative and frequent viewer of Fox news programming, I expect better. Credibility is hard won currency in the news business, and this network is losing it fast.

  • A rational mind PLEASANTON, CA
    July 18, 2011 10:59 p.m.

    Pew Research Center U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey ( September 28, 2010):Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

    On questions about Christianity including a battery of questions about the Bible Mormons (7.9 out of 12 right on average) and white evangelical Protestants (7.3 correct on average) show the highest levels of knowledge.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    July 19, 2011 6:13 a.m.

    Fox and the conservative right are not the friends of Mormons. Stop affiliating with them.

  • Andermart Pullman, WA
    July 19, 2011 6:25 a.m.

    Oh my word... Read the label people. Open the hood and look inside. Kick the tires instead of throwing stones at the vehicle. This whole debate is ludicrous.

    Be it forever known that the LDS faith is Christian, and more Christ following than any faith the world has ever known. Of course we believe differently than other self-proclaimed Christians. Too many can't see a true Christian if he were to walk up to them, pick them up, dress their wounds, put money in their pockets, and send them on their way rejoicing. Get over it. Mormons are Christian, but they are not Baptists, Pentecostal or Methodist. Get over it. Now where is another world disaster that they can send helping hands to?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 19, 2011 7:43 a.m.

    Andermart - couldn't agree more. Its about actions, not if God has brown eyes or blue - or no eyes. Being Christian is about following and doing - not just knowing. Knowing is the very smallest part. The nature of God is not so important as is what we do in his name.

    The problem is Christian faiths, at their core beliefs, are about 95% the same - with only 5 percent difference. Focusing on the 5 percent is holding a whole lot of good back from being done. But as humans, we'er going to focus on what makes us special, unique, right or true rather than what is common and binds us together. Its human nature.

    I am no exception and catch myself falling into the trap myself more often than I like.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    July 19, 2011 7:50 a.m.

    LDS4: Modern translations are helpful:
    The Son is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact representation (karacter) of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.(Hebrews 1:3 NIV)
    The Son radiates Gods own glory and expresses the very character of God,(Hebrews 1:3 NLT). One of the reasons I left the church, the Bishop told me I could only use the KJV, He even highlighted the passages for me to read. He was not aware I could read (Biblical) Greek..
    (Christians)receive the spirit of sonship (by adoption)Jesus is God: In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God, and the Word(Jesus) was God(John 1:1) And the Word(Jesus) became flesh(John 1:14) God becomes man not man becomes God.
    The word "Trinity" was first used by Tertullian (c.155-230)well before the Nicene creed
    Let us make man in Our Image image and likeness (Genesis 1:26)So God created man in His OWN(spiritual) Image male and female(Genesis 1:27) If there were more than one God it would read in their image. The Trinity in the O.T.

  • greenman108 Petaluma, CA
    July 19, 2011 8:33 a.m.

    poster inquired: "Really, it just seems like a trademark dispute: do some Christians have the exclusive right to use the name of Jesus Christ?"

    1. the name is Jesus, of Galilee. Christ is a function. While our culture knows only Jesus as Christ, in many prior cultures, there were other persons whose function was "Christ whose Sacrifice saves you".

    2. adding something makes LDS 'different'. I enjoy such considerations. For an in depth consideration about Jesus and the various elements which were once considered official dogma and were dropped, and later ideas which are now considered official dogma in most Christian sects, please consider acquiring the book, the Pneumaton, by the great sage Adi Da Samraj. He was educated in Lutheran ministry after undergrad at Columbia U in philosophy. In the last few decades he wrote some books on Christian topics. Pneumaton is his summary work about Spirit and Spirit Baptism in one's spiritual practice. Part of the book is intended to help a Christian 'follow' Jesus.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    July 19, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    Sharrona
    LDS4,Modern translations are helpful:
    The Son is...the exact representation (karacter) of his being, (NIV)
    The Son ..expresses the very character of God. (NLT)

    LDS4
    I own about 15 different English Bible translations and 3 different Greek translations. None are perfect. Your examples above show that Christ is perfect representation of God, as I stated, but isn't THE God Himself.

    Phil. 2:9 has God exalting Christ. If Christ is God, wasn't he already exalted? Heb. 1:9 has the Father calling Christ God, but He (and Paul) also refer to the Father as the God of Christ. Christ and the Holy Ghost represent God to man and become as God to man (Acts 5:3,4). "Comforter" really should be rendered "advocate" or "spokesman" since the Spirit represents God to us.

    The Greek/pagan influence was infecting the Church, even in Paul's day. This is why he warned the Church to stay away from those preaching "another Gospel" and "another Jesus". Trinitarianism preaches "another Gospel" and "another Jesus" than what is taught in the Bible. Tertullian and others looked at the Gospel through pagan colored glasses and saw dimly.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    July 19, 2011 10:09 a.m.

    Romney is Mormon in name only. His real religion is a new world order.

  • greenman108 Petaluma, CA
    July 19, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    one difference between fundamentalist and/or Catholic-Orthodox teaching and the LDS that vanilla Christians seize upon is the idea that a spirit-being-person may evolve. Evolution is also taught in Buddhism and Vedanta.
    Buddhism and Adidam take it one step further though, and suggest that any person, right now, may Realize that all objects, others, and even themselves, are 'conditional' and then, notice their Oneness with All and all, the Only, One, Conscious Light and end the illusory notion of being a separate being, even if powerful and in some ways God-like (in the typical Vedanta model).
    I dont know LDS teaching well at all, and only barely know a thing about the evolution teaching, but I am certain that evolution is not taught in vanilla Christian church/sects, but instead that a person lives only once, dies and then is sorted out into heaven or hell or a way station concept limbo, some immediately and some by and by, depending on the school of thought.
    This prompts me to read up on 'evolution' in LDS and the timing of LDS practitioners getting into heaven.

  • Give Me A Break Pullman, WA
    July 19, 2011 11:06 a.m.

    I am one who believes in Jesus of Nazareth and accept Him alone as my Savior. He was and is the promised and long awaited Messiah. I am His disciple and seek to do His will as He sought to do the will of The Father. I am a Christian because I follow Him, the Master. I seek to bless individuals lives through my personal administration to their needs, as Jesus the Christ did. I make study of the scriptures a daily pursuit.

    How sad to learn that some would judge individuals they do not even know as either being Christian or not being Christian based on their own limited perception of one's faith. You can imagine my relief that these individuals will not be my judge. Should you continue to feel members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not Christians, we will still come to your aid when we can. That is how we roll. I am a Mormon, and I am a Christian.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    July 19, 2011 2:38 p.m.

    It's amazing that the media overlooks baracks religious background and other candidates. But when a mormon walks into the room, that's all they want to talk about....

    Whatever happened to objective reporting?

    I didn't know that any one group of people had the copy rights on Jesus and you have to purchase a license from them to also be a follower of Jesus. What gives anyone the authority to tell someone else if they are christian or not?

    That sounds like judging. Something that religious group will tell you first thing anytime you bring something up "don't judge me" they'll say. Maybe they should take their own advice and stop judging others.

  • Kevin J. Kirkham Salt Lake City, UT
    July 19, 2011 3:57 p.m.

    The issue boils down to whether LDS and other Christians are similarly situated. This is a legal term which an on-line legal dictionary defines thusly:

    Alike in all relevant ways for purposes of a particular decision or issue. This term is often used in discrimination cases, in which the plaintiff may seek to show that he or she was treated differently from others who are similarly situated except for the alleged basis of discrimination.

    We LDS feel we are similarly situated with other Christians because we believe that:
    Jesus is the Son of God.
    No one comes to the Father but through Christ.
    Forgiveness comes only though Christ's atonement.
    We try to follow Christ's teachings.
    We believe the Bible.
    We pray in Christ's name.

    Anyone who believes these things is obviously Christian.

    Others may reject our unique beliefs (non-belief in the Trinity, open canon, etc,,,), but these in no way diminish the above. We therefore are Christians.

    LDS4 should have used this concept regarding married gay couples. Such ARE similarly situated with straight families. They face the same issues straights face. The difference doesn't negate that fact nor that they're married and objectively a family.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    July 19, 2011 9:19 p.m.

    Very clever to say "By definition we are Christian, because we follow the teachings of Christ."

    Mormon accepted teachings do not match the accepted teachings of traditional Christians. It is disengenuous to so casually say "we're all Christians" when you could certainly never say "we believe all the same things".

  • The Vanka Provo, UT
    July 20, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    Let's try this again:

    Are you Christian?

    Do you believe in Jesus Christ?

    Jesus said,

    "the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).

    So, believing in Jesus Christ does not make you a Christian.

    You claim you are Christians because you do religious acts in Jesus' name?

    Jesus said,

    "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt.7:22-23).

    Doing nice things, even in the name of Jesus, does not make you a Christian.

    In other words, being a Christian has nothing to do with what YOU claim, what you do, or what you believe.

    In fact, based on what Jesus Himself taught, those who declare themselves to be "Christian" are probably the first ones we should suspect are NOT.

  • Kevin J. Kirkham Salt Lake City, UT
    July 20, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    Vanka - "the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).
    So, believing in Jesus Christ does not make you a Christian.

    KJK - Jesus said otherwise - Jn. 3:36, 6:40, 47. There is nothing the devils can do to be saved. They are not men. Jesus' words and the words of Paul (Rom. 10:13) and the other apostles (Acts 2:21) show that believing in Jesus makes one a Christian. Those like the Fox commentator who claim that LDS are not Christians because we don't believe in a pagan doctrine regarding God's nature seem to be adding unto the word of God. Such should believe the words of Christ, believe the Bible and accept LDS and other non-Trinitarians as fellow Christians.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    July 20, 2011 1:06 p.m.

    The Fox commentator's comments were made in POLITICAL context.

    You can drag out the dictionary, quote the Bible, maybe dust off that theology debate trophy, and you can argue the case that Mormons are Christians, by religious definition. But you'll lose the political debate.

    Traditional Christians view Mormon candidates as different. They are going to give their vote and money to the candidate most like themselves. That puts Romney at a disadvantage with that block of voters.

    Still, it was an ugly comment to make. As the primary heats up, I expected some candidate to resort to such ugliness, but that won't be necessary now that Fox News is beating the "Romney is different" drum.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    July 20, 2011 2:20 p.m.

    ====
    Petra's comments are the perfect example of wacko LDS folks created straw man arguments to support their hatred of anything contrary to their Liberal views.

    No one on these pages claims Fox News is perfect in its reporting. No one.

    I also don't know anyone who takes Fox News' word as being the gospel "truth".

    So really, why do people like you hate Fox News as much as the Evangelicals hate LDS folks? There isn't any different in the vitriolic comments that come from people like you towards Fox News compared to Evangelical comments towards LDS folks.

    I think the Big One will finally hit the Salt Lake Valley when people like Petra, MormonDem, LDSLiberal admit that Fox News actually gets many things correct and they only know about certain things because of Fox News.

    Or, when they acknowledge that the rest of the national media, MSNBC, CBS, CNN, ABC, NBC, NYT etc error in their reporting and don't actually bring forth stories because of their politics and religious belief.

    Stossell just confirmed that he couldn't do certain stories at his former home because of their politics.

    The hypocrisy by the Fox haters is astounding, but expected.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 20, 2011 4:13 p.m.

    as is the "The hypocrisy by the liberal\democrat haters is astounding, but expected."

    No difference... pick your crowd you decide to hate, demean, or generalize about.

  • scwoz gambier, oh
    July 21, 2011 9:56 a.m.

    I am just flubbergusted.

  • Idaho Coug Meridian, Idaho
    July 21, 2011 10:01 p.m.

    It is interesting how much today's LDS Church differs from the early JS and BY LDS Church. Early on we rejoiced at not being a "Christian" denomination and made some very critical comments of Christian churches. Today we are doing everything we can to be numbered among them. We used to revel in our uniqueness and even isolation. Today our PR arm drives everything toward being as mainstream and accepted as possible.

  • LeftBehind SAN FRANCISCO, CA
    Aug. 15, 2011 6:48 a.m.

    Do you remember when Lee Atwater called the Republican Party the 'big tent' party? Seems as if the tent is getting smaller and smaller.

    Bryan Fischer, Director of Issues Analysis for the American Family Association (the group that sponsored the Houston prayer rally hosted by Rick Perry), has said that Muslims have no First Amendment rights in this country.

    Wake up people. "At first they came for the Muslims, and I said nothing because I wasn't a Muslim..."