"However, had more delegates stuck around for the HB116 vote ...the
resolution would have been defeated....Thus, no politician need feel a mandate
exists to repeal the immigration law." And why wouldn't it be
at least as likely that those 600 would have voted for the resolution, thus
increasing the margin of affirmation? Sounds like you're the
"The great problems this country and state face won't be solved by
extremists. They will be solved by leaders of goodwill who come together to make
the necessary tough decisions."I assume that the "leaders
of goodwill" Webb is looking for means moderates that will compromise with
the other side. Great sound bite, but we've tried that already and it doesn't
seem to work. I offer the 14 trillion dollar debt as proof of what working
together to solve problems creates. I could be wrong but I can't think of a
single "great problem" compromising moderates have solved. I think we
should be grateful that there were no compromising moderates that founded this
country. Extremists, every one.
Sorry guys there's no "struggle" going on in the Republican party.The only "struggle" is convincing the RINO Republican leaders
that we won't continue to go along with everything they say just because
"they said so."I have my own theory as to the convention
vote; MANY delegates didn't show up, or left early because they could see which
way the vote was going to go. The whole talk for the last month has been
REPEALING HB116. Why stay or even show up if the illegal advocacy legislation is
going to be repealed anyway?The only ones who DIDN'T expect HB116 to
be repealed were the "leadership" (I use the term loosely)because they
always expect the delegates to DO AS THEY'RE TOLD!
Article translation: "delegates didn't vote the way the RINO leadership
wanted so the sky is falling".
To quote a great Republican - "There you go again", Lavar.HB116 was THE reason to be at convention. There is no way to predict how the
600 would have voted. Did they leave because they didn't care about the outcome
or because the pre-vote sentiment indicated a much larger margin of victory,
thereby reducing the need for their vote?While I have my own
reservations about officer elections, the losing slate offered not much more.
Thomas Wright talks a good talk but is largely irrelevant when it comes to
candidates, which reflects the impact of the party in general. Others on his
ticket have, over the years, been dangerous and detrimental to the party and its
principles. Having worked on a number of campaigns over the years,
the party organization exists largely to promote its self perpetuation by
professing relevance and picking the candidates' pockets. Under Wright's
leadership, neither the SLCOGOP nor the UTGOP offer much in the way of a
grassroots machine. That is largely left to the candidates. And the question of
fealty to Republican principles and platform can be discovered simply by reading
Lavar's column - scant. A "lost" party will always struggle.
YAWNS LOUDLY here. Utah Republican Chairman Thomas Wright deserves the respect
he is receiving from most corners of Utah politics, especially for his use of
technology to promote party development. Sen. Harry Reid says if he had to
choose between two Mormon candidates for the Republican presidential nomination,
Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman, he would choose Huntsman. The Democratic leader,
himself a Mormon, believes Americans would turn away from former Massachusetts
Gov. Romney because of his reputation as a flip-flopper on such issues as gay
marriage and abortion, CBS News reports. Reid said: "Here's a man who
doesn't know who he is." End of report.
There is nothing like a good political opponent to help maintain focus and rise
above party in-fighting. Obama lost the white working class vote in 2008 by a
margin of 18 percentage points. But in 2010, Congressional Democrats lost by 30
points in this demographic. Significant numbers of white working class voters
are expected to show up at the polls in 2012, and their level of support for
President Obama will very likely determine if he is re-elected. The 30-point
deficit would also sink Obama in Florida, whose 29 electoral votes would assure
Obama's re-election, assuming he manages to carry the 18 states that Democrats
have carried in every presidential election since 1992. States with high
percentages of white working class voters that Republicans could strongly
contest include Minnesota, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. As to
whether a surge toward the Republican candidate among white working class voters
is likely, the bleak economic situation confronting most members of this voting
bloc, "Scarily so."
Webb, Can we please stop the "it wouldn't have passed with more
delegates there" baloney you and others are trying to spread? The church
came out against the repeal and it still passed. Face it, WE DON'T WANT AMNESTY.
You and the other apologists need to wake up. The fact that it passed against
overwhelming church opposition should send you and others like you a message.
Are you listening this time? No deals for illegals.
I would like to hear from someone who says we should follow the LDS church on
gay marriage, but not on immigration. Please tell me why its different. I'm not
trying to be confrontational, I really want to know.
Webb speculates that if more delegates had stayed then the vote to repeal HB116
which passed by a margin of 94 votes would have failed. I was a delegate also,
and I speculate that it would have passed by an even larger vote if they had
stayed. On this issue I think my opinion(speculation) is just as valid as that
of Mr. Webb. Many of those delegates left because they didn't understand the
issue one way or another, or they were like the over a thousand that didn't show
up, because they didn't care.Webb and Pignanelli are political
lobbyists that care little about principle. They believe that the only
important issue is winning elections. In my opinion it is this lack of principle
and ideology that has caused many Utahns to not even bother to vote. When
Principle and ideology come back to politics perhaps voters will also.Most of those that stayed understood issues from their own point of view and
stayed to support them. Over a thousand didn't even show up generally due to a
lack of understanding the importance of the convention and the elections. I
think the delegates did very well overall.
Some thoughts.1. For the last 10 years, the even years has brought over
90% attendance of delegates and just over 50% attendance for odd years.2.
It has been common over the last 10 years to barely have a quorum if even that
(50% of the starting number of delegates that showed up that day) to be around
for the resolutions. Many times there wasn't even enough to even vote on
resolutions, so most haven't cared about it.3. Over the last 10 years most
delegates have shown up to vote for those elected officials that would show up
on the ballot, fewer for party leaders, and fewer still for the resolutions that
are non-binding messages. 4. If you look at the last 10 years, more showed
up this year than in the past.
I believe the Bill would have passed by more if the Delgates would have staid.
Now what I just said is not factual, nor is your article. It is not based on
anything concrete. Pure speculation. I would love to see this go for a vote just
to prove that illegal immigration is bad for the state of Utah and its citizens.
As a state delegate I recieved several pieces of slick pro-hb116 material in the
mail. (But nothing against hb116). Clearly there was some big money behind the
movement for hb116. Despite that lobbying of delegates, they still voted for
repealing hb116. It was a grass roots effort to support the party platform and
the Constitution. Now, of course, the pro-116ers (Webb) are spinning numbers to
negate the will of the delegates.
It never ceases to amaze me that people show up a caucus meetings, run for
delegate positions, knowing that they are agreeing to SHOW up and STAY for the
conventions and then they don't. The fact that only 25% of the delegates stayed
to vote is an indictment against those who made promises to their neighbors to
represent them and then FAILED! We need to make sure that delegates understand
that this is the JOB they are running for and WE EXPECT them to follow through
or get a replacement in time. I for one was disappointed that neither of my two
showed up and I was more than happy to replace them but they didn't try. I
contacted both and only found out after the convention that NO one showed to
represent my neighborhood. Those that showed and STAYED to vote are the real
heroes. They understand that they were representing their neighbors and they
took it seriously. Mr. Webb, your argument is ridiculous and you should be
ashamed of yourself.
It is about time those who are arrogant and who do not believe in anything,
stand down. I supported one of the two "arch-conservatives" and am
now happy they both won. We can get along and we can work together for a
change, instead of the party in-crowd only enforcing party rules and the 11th
commandment for those they want in office. Thomas Wright has done a good job,
but for him to stand before the Convention and castigate those he now has to
work with shows he is not gentleman. Too bad there was not a good candidate
against him or he would also be gone, as we already saw several calling for a
revote after his off-the-cuff comments. How can you, Lavar, defend what this
man did to his own party?
If the Utah political parties struggle over ideology and leadership, then let's
all participate in the Huntsman Seminar on Constitutional Government at the
Hinckley Institute of Politics, and talk about their buddies, the Koch
Brothers. There's a cacophony of misinformation from Fox News, right-wing
think tanks and extreme conservative politicians about Social Security.
"Privatize it," they yell. "It's going broke," they scream.
"Raise the retirement age," they bellow. But who is conducting this
dissonant symphony? The latest installment of Koch Brothers Exposed from the
Brave New Foundation says the baton is being wielded by the David and Charles
Koch, the right-wing extremist billionaire brothers who are out to dismantle
Social Security, overturn financial regulations, corporate rules, environmental
standards, workers rights and just about any evil on the radical right agenda.
When it comes to the attacks on Social Security, The Koch Brothers Echo Chamber
video shows how $28.4 million of Koch money to think tanks like the Cato
Institute ($13.6 million), the Heritage Foundation ($3.4 million) and a host of
others has helped produce more than 300 scholarly position papers on dismantling
Social Security and a choir of economists and political scientists, same hymnal.