Its a start. When are you repealing it though? Have you started the
campaign?Second; you have about 8 months until the caucus to get
good candidates to run for office to replace all of those who voted for 116 so
you need to be working on that too. That especially applies to Herbert and the
AG.Past time elected officials put their own citizens and legal
residents before illegals.
Awesome job, GOP delegates! I am impressed that you didn't cave into the
pressure, and that you voted your own conscience. Its good to know there are
people that understand right from wrong, honesty, and fairness to those who obey
the law. I wish my church still taught those things (sigh). Thank you, Thank
you Thank you!!!!!
Well D-News, I think it's now your responsibility to post the names of all those
who voted for and against this bill. We voters can then vote with a little more
confidence in just who we are voting for. I'll be watching for the list or
atleast a link to the list from you D-News.
Gov Herbert, Bell, Shurtleff, Utah Senate and House GOPers who supported HB
116......will recieve a letter of notification from the GOP Party....essentially
this means they are all being CENSORED for going off the reservation and if they
don't return, they will be sent packing in the next election.Sandstrom for Governor!!
@Adam...Google the Utah State Legislature's website and look at the
vote for HB 116. You can have your question answered in less than 15 seconds.
Finally some good news on this subject. Thank you delegates for listening!
Wonderful news and about time. Now we need to pass a national E-verify law and
start replacing illegals with those whose country this is. Illegals need to go
home now and work to improve things there. The real triumph here is that the
delegates represented their districts and the voters and didn't cave into the
church, the chamber, or open borders amnesty hacks with their own agendas that
have little to do with the will of the majority in this state. This shows
the DN poll of the last few days is nonsense and was totally rigged to support
their amnesty agenda. Any organization or person in this state who thinks they
can fly in the face of the will of the people on this issue is going to lose and
lose big. If you are a politician who thinks he can buck the people, do so at
your own peril.
Even among GOP delegates, there's marked disagreement on this issue. Anyone who
pretends Utahns are overwhelmingly against a guest worker program is ignoring
Anyone can go to to see how any legislator voted on HB116. Each and every vote
is recorded there.
Having attended today's convention, and having been an avid supporter on one
side of the issue, I can attest to how divisive this issue has been amongst the
delegates. I truly feel that the Legislature was trying to address an issue
that has become a centerpiece in what defines our nation. Rule of Law on one
hand and the extension of mercy on the other... a refrain we are all familiar
with.While HB 116 was far from perfect, it showed, as the LDS Church
advocated, that two sides of an issue can come together in common dialogue,
seeking an equitable solution.The Legislature is not bound by this
afternoon's vote. They can choose to ignore it and allow HB116 to be in full
force come 2013. However, I don't think any member of the Legislature will
forget that the grassroots have spoken, and that they, in fact are, elected by
those same grassroots individuals.Now we have an opportunity to come
together again and draft a bill that will be acceptable to both sides. This is,
I believe, what the LDS Church was trying to advocate when they commented on
this and similar issues.
Kudos for your work today delegates.I will always wonder why Mr.
Shurtleff is more likely enforce a NEW LAW when he refuses to enforce the
existing law? He COULD arrest illegal trespassers today if he chose to.A BIG victory for ACTUAL Utah citizens today.A big defeat
for unethical businesses.They may be forced to pay minimum wages
There may still be hope for this State. I can't wait to hear what the plan is
for getting rid of HB116 and getting laws in place, such as Alabama, Georgia,
and others, that will get illegals on their way out of Utah.
Step one, the convention vote. Step two, replacing the Republicans and other
politicians who rammed HB116 through this last session. We will not forget your
names:Anderson, Arent, Bird, Biskupski, Brown, D, Brown,
Butterfield, Christensen, Cosgrove, Dee, Dougall, Draxler, Edwards, Fisher,
Janice, Froerer, Hemingway, Hendrickson, Hutchings, Kiser, Litvack, McIff,
Menlove, Moss, Noel, Perry, Peterson, J, Peterson, V, Pitcher, Poulson, Powell,
Richardson, Sagers, Sanpei, Seelig, Vickers, Watkins, Webb, Wheatley, Wiley,
Wright, Lockhart, Adams, Bramble, Christensen, Davis, Hillyard, Jenkins, Jones,
Knudson, McAdams, Morgan, Niederhauser, Okerlund, Reid, Robles, Stephenson,
Stevenson, Valentine, Van Tassell, Waddoups.
It looks like the majority of the delegates told the Deseret News, KSL and
others what they think of their poll, pressure etc. It looks like the delegates
have more common sense than some thought.
Thank you to the delegates who listened and voted to get rid of HB116, get rid
of the legislators who supported it, and voted to get rid of Gov Herbert, Atty
Gen Shurtliff and any others who continue to ram HB116 down our throats. It is
far past time to send the illegal's home.
So much for polls 'eh? It's those that are being hurt that deserves the
compassion. American citizens. Business threw everything they had at
this and lost. One might point out that the LDS stand was compassion
and enforcement, yet the enforcement part of the bill has been stopped by the
courts, and they are not fighting to restore it. Something is wrong
in the country and state.
Congratulations delegates for having the courage to vote your mind and
conscience in spite of incredible pressure from the LDS Church, Chamber of
Commerce et al...Legislators, are you listening to the voice of the
People? Remember Sen. Bennett...If we truly want to have immigrants come
to this country to have a better life, we (especially the Church) have to make
it very clear, without equivocation, that they have to do it the legal, the
right way and thus put an end to their being exploited for cheap labor.Observing the rule of law never has bad consequences; it does protect you.
Isn't it what we should all want for them?
@jeanne47, it's the delegates who aren't listening to the voice of the people.
They never have, and they probably never will.
I applaud the delegates who were brave enough to vote to repeal HB116 and not
side with the power brokers of the Utah State Republican Party and the LDS
Church . You can't shield Illegals from U.S. Law. For Illegals to "square
themselves with the law" which is what these groups want, the Illegals
still need to return to their country of origin and come here legally with legal
papers. The statement from the Church even says that. Not just wave a magic
wand and say they can work here.
ON the other hand,What planet do hail from? On this one the people
elect the delegates. Your amnesty agenda is probably the reason you aren't one.
If you think there is such widespread demand for your amnesty and open borders
ideas why don't you run? You will find that the Republicans in your area are
against it and those who are for it got a loud and clear message today. Everyone
supporting 116 is not going to be a delegate for very long. And those who are in
the legislature pushing this wholesale nonsense are going to be gone soon.
It's a really good start.Remember the list of names who voted FOR HB
116, and if they are challenged in a primary by a candidate who would vote
AGAINST such a bill, you have a good choice. If opposed by a member from the
other party who would have voted for it anyway, not so good a choice.Remember, you can contribute to campaigns of any candidate and help them with
lit drops, signs, etc even if you live in another district.Don't
forget the Democrats who nearly all voted for HB 116, this may be a good time to
replace them as well with more conservative candidates.
As a republican state delegate and as an American I had to vote against my
church, and the SL Chamber of Commerce in favor of the Constitution, the law,
and common sense. If you want to see how the legislators voted, in
addition to the Utah Legislature website you may also want to google "Utah
UFIRE" and click on the 2011 legislature in the side bar. It will save you
a lot of time. Those of you that were whining about the vote should
have gotten yourself elected at your neighborhood caucus. Or if you were one of
the about 40 percent of the delegates that didn't show up, you snooze, you lose.
America's Utah team one, illegal aliens zero, at the Utah Republican
State Convention today.
Well, this is regrettable. I will definitely make my support for HB116 known to
my local delegation.
Anyone want some stale out of date TEA?Just goes to show the
majority of Repub Delegates are not in touch with the majority of the State. I
feel bad that so many haters were elected to be delegates.
I love it when the power brokers see a loss coming...and they suddenly call for
civility. It was just a sham to intimidate those who oppose the LDS stand.Please tell me one example of lack of civility by those elected officials who
opposed 116. Just one.The in-your-face lack of civility can be found
among the activists who cry racist whenever someone wants the laws enforced.Thank you for rejecting this unconstitutional plan to bring state-level
amnesty to those who are trespassers.
It was a victory in that two every day citizens, (one of whom was a legal
immigrant who became a U.S. citizen) went toe to toe against two powerful
government officials and a wealthy out of state special interest group.The two citizens presented sound and reasoned arguments for the repeal
of HB 116 and prevailed.It was reminiscent of an April day in 1775
when a hand full of farmers stood up against the might of the British empire.
This bill should be overturned. But how can the Attorney General, who is highest
legal authority in Utah and is suppose to uphold the law and Constitution,
speak in favor of this bill? The vote should have been even wider if the
delegates voted with the majority of people they represent. This also shows you
can't trust Dan Jones Polls which are manipulated in an attempt to influence
This makes me very sad. This is not a vote against immigrants, but a vote
against ourselves. "And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own
flesh, and they shall be drunken with their own blood."
A very close vote and now the tea party folks are claiming they have the power
to push out of office all who disagree with their stand. They are ready to take
on the establishment (or continue to take on the establishment). I wonder what
will happen if and when the tea party folks are the establishment. One thing I
have found in my career is that it is much easier to oppose those in positions
of leadership than it is to lead.
Oh my! This state is sick, sick, sick. Glad I'm gone.
well does that mean minimum wages for farm workers now ? apples $4.00 a pound
lettuce $5.00 a head tomatos $ 5.50 a pound Oranges $4.15 a pound
So what are the GOP delegates going to do now? Apparently they know better than
61% of Utahns and the Mormon church. What is it mass expulsion of millions of
people? Prison terms for all the illegal aliens and there children? Enforcement
only. No reasonable middle ground here. A sad day for Utah republicans.
I call upon my representative, Lavar Christensen, to publically rescind his vote
for HB116 and support the majority of his constituents. Lavar, did you hear
the people speak? They were talking to you.
Wonder how long before the Church leadership is run out of Utah?
This kind of stunt is exactly why I left the Republican party. All the party
activists seem to favor dogmatism over pragmatism when it comes to issues like
this. The fact of the matter is that enforcement-only bills are unfeasible and
costly-just look at the economic repercussions in Arizona after they passed
their bill.Yes, we do have our fair share of dogmatic, unreasoning party
activists in the Utah Democratic Party, but by and large our party is dominated
by moderate centrists. That means that our state convention actually does things
that make sense, instead of passing resolutions parroting the ravings of some
far-right pundit like Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh. Anyone reading this who is
questioning their party membership, just be informed that Democrats in Utah are
overwhelmingly pro-life, pro-family, and fiscally conservative. There is another
option to this unseemly mess.
Why would the salt lake chamber of comm. have such a big interest in this issue
other than trying to have a supply of cheap labor for their buddies at the
country club? Illegal immigrants do not have to be deported, jailed,
or any such nonsense. Just take away the jobs, and they will go home on their
own. No seperation of family or such sad stories.I honestly believe
that the margin of the vote was greater. I looked around the room while the
vote was being taken and it sure seemed like there were alot more people in
favor of repealing. They had trouble with counting and totaling of votes all
day long. How many times did they have to adjust the numbers? At least 3 or 4
People are tired of this illegal immigration problem. Thats why Chris Cannon
lost his job. Thats why Bob Bennett got booted out in the convention last year.
And there will be more to come. Thats why Hatch is changing his tune. He can
see the writing on the wall. American is being taken back.
Well, gizmo33, I guess you care more about eating cheap apples than paying LEGAL
farm workers a fair salary! Where is your compassion?
OK Republicans;Remember your pledge of no pork so don't ask for government
stimulus money to build your Rameumptoms. You must do that on you own.
I think it is important to remember that those who oppose H.B.116 realize that
the U.S. Constitution should not be shrugged off and on according to ones
convenience. The Constitution represents every single American and provides
protections to America's citizens, legislatures, states, and federal government.
It is only when we stray from the Constitution that we find the pitfalls the
Founding Fathers warned of. We simply ask that the Utah State Legislature find a
solution, which we are only to willing to help them with, to illegal immigrants
that remains within the restrictions the U.S. Constitution has placed upon the
states, which are not many. I do not find that unreasonable, nor did the
majority of delegates at the Republican State Convention today, of which I am
So, I see a lot of people on the right arguing that HB 116 needs to be repealed
because it was unconstitutional? But the enforcement of immigration on
"suspicious" people of a certain class by the state is OK? It seems
kind of convenient to interpret the US Constitution however you want to support
your political positions. I prefer to choose and support interpretations that
protect the freedoms of ALL the people, especially the disfavored minorities.
I don't think the LDS church spoke in favor of this bill. They had statements
that supported both sides. The federal government needs to start doing their
Thank you delegates!Charityalways--I really hope enforcers of laws
look for "suspicious" people. If a description of a bank robber is put
out and it is an adult female, I hope the police don't waste their time checking
men and children. As one mother whose son is in Austrailia wrote, he
must carry his passport with his marked date of departure with him at all times,
in case he is ever questioned. I hope as citizens we continue to
love our neighbors and kindly do what we can to keep families together AS THEY
RETURN to the land of their legal residence.There was NOT KINDNESS
and consideration from them when towards me and my fellow citizens WHEN THEY
OVERSTAYED their visas or entered without proper documentation.I DO
WISH THEM WELL and I plan to pay top dollar for produce and anything else
because I know I will be paying less for medical care, government services,
education for my family, etc.
Lets get one thing very clear to all of you who say the delegates went against
the will of Utah Citizens. The DN poll showing 61 percent in favor did not
differentiate between Republican, Democrat, or Independent. Do I really have to
remind you that this was a REPUBLICAN convention?Even with this obvious
exclusion in the poll, the Delegates are elected by the People and I believe
that 2100 delegate votes are a much better reflection of the will of the people
than a Dan Jones poll that only polled 406. Those that are for
HB116 and the institutional racism it would introduce need to realize that they
are fighting a losing battle. Logic, reason and true compassion is not on their
side and never has been. This is reflected by the name calling coming from the
pro HB116 crowd that has replaced legitimate disagreement and debate. The DN needs to get a clue and stop being a source of propaganda and start
being a source of journalism or they will seem themselves (along with Dan Jones)
continually marginalized until they no longer exist.
I'm glad the delegates who oppose doing the right thing for both the U.S. and
for the people from whom we stole much of it went on record. Now that they've
raised their hands, it will be that much easier to use the political process to
isolate them from opportunities to implement their enmity.
Some questions:1. If it becomes law, who gets the $2500 illegals
would need to pay to "square" themselves with the law? 2.
The problem exists because the immigration laws were not enforced in the first
place. It continues to exist because employers continue to violate the law by
hiring illegals. If the illegals need to "square" themselves with the
law, then what are the employers going to do to get "square" with the
law?3. Will the federal government grant a waiver for Utah? Seems
unlikely since that would lessen their power and they have sued Arizona because
they want to enforce a federal law which the Feds will not enforce, but they
don't want anyone else to enforce it either. On the other hand, HB116 will open
the door for total amnesty for illegals, which is what they want, so maybe they
will actually grant a waiver. I would think though that HB116 will be like a
magnet for other illegals to come to Utah. 4. If it becomes law,
how long before someone proposes tax money be used to enable illegals to
"square" themselves with the law?
Keep hb116! The Utah legislature's compromise of several bills, and the words
of the Utah Compact agree with my goals for polit, tical laws about dealing with
changes to immigration policy in Utah. This GOP vote is sad, and I will vote
against anyon on my ballot who says an inkling of support for this putrid poll
result. And I've been a registered Republican since before 1984. Lately, I
question my ties to the GOP. This anti Mexican poll result shows me the GOPer's
are the new rednecks, the new john crower's, who we fought in the streets of the
south in the 1960's. There's no tolerance from the GOP. And I can't tolerate
this position of theirs. Good to read in this article that 61% of Utahns
support hb116, I stand with this group, and they with me. hb116 is a step in
the right direction, of assimilating our friends from south of the border, hb116
and the Utah Compact can lead the feds in the right direction.
460 people does not substantiate that the poll referenced is a statistically
accurate poll not according to the rules and ethics standards of the polling
community....and to classify a + or - 5% accuracy is a joke. We have nearly 2
million people living in this state. Plus if the DNews poll is like thier sports
polls on Utah and BYU one person can vote on the same questions numerous times.
I don't see the Deseret News as a standard bearer for the first ammendment
either when just having an opinion counter to someone on thier monitoring staff
has an opposing opinion. It's a toss up on whether a clean sensible post gets
posted or not. It's all in who just happens to be monitoring and what thier
opinion on the current subject and what kind of a day they are having. I've got
a 50/50 chance that this post will make it.
As Much as I like Mitt Romney...He's not a favorite son of Utah he's a favorite
Presidential candidate of many Utahn's... and like many Utahn's he is religous.
I wish journalists were journalists and not wizards of words...just stick to the
facts. He's from Michigan via Massachusits. I'm a California only because I
was born there as a result of WWII but a Utahn because I grew up there... went
to school and college there and though I'm in the military it's my leagal state
Now, it's up to the legislators. They clearly have been put on notice. They
can begin to represent their constituency - or else.I wonder how Mr.
Hatch slept last night? His long time support for illegals, his sponsoring of
the original DREAM Act, voting for the Patriot Act (more than once), is now a
huge anchor for him. Oh well...one sows what they reap.
Just to clarify what gizmo33 wrote, the impact of illegal alien labor on food
prices is a myth. We wouldn't have $3 tomatoes and $8 heads of lettuce.
Picking labor accounts for about 5% of the retail price.Seattle Times
columnist Drew DeSilver wrote: If illegal workers disappeared from the apple
harvest and wages for the remaining legal workers rose by 40 percent in response
and that entire wage increase were passed on to the consumer that still would
add less than 3 cents to the retail price of a pound of apples.As
Will Rogers once said, It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's
what we know that ain't so.
owlmaster 2 You're the space cadet whose lost out there owly. You're
trying to fly in the ozone layer where there's very little oxygen. It's time to
come back to earth. The moon isn't made of cheese. We already have severe
problems with Utah long being a safe haven...and the gang related crime we are
just seeing the early stages of here isn't African American or Chinese and if
you haven't noticed... it is blossoming extremely well. Creating a larger safe
haven environment isn't the answer. Even just enforcing existing immigration
laws would be an improvement. We need to force the state to do that because we
know by experience that the federal government can't do it... and they also need
to create and enforce stricter laws than we already have because we will be
facing more and more of an increasing onslaught down the road if we don't.
A poster here said that the Democratic Party in Utah is composed largely of
centrists. That is possibly true of their leaders, but I don't buy it as
applied to their rank and file. The leaders know that their election is in
jeopardy if they reflect the true views of their party, and so they mute them
and push the agenda a little around the edges.My conversations with
Utah Democrats find them supporting every national, liberal and party platform
plank. They favor unrestricted abortion, they favor gay marriage. They favor
increased social programs and higher taxes. They used to chafe at the
leadership of the LDS church, feeling that they (being rigidly conservative) had
far too much control over what happened in Salt Lake City and the Utah
Legislature. Now, as the church seems to be moderating and liberalizing their
official stands, Utah Democrats are starting to really like them.Utah Democrats are not centrist, don't want to be, and never will be. I hope
that the church and the people realize that.
On the positive side, the vote was very close. Adding roughly 40% of
Republicans to a much higher percentage of Democrats, maybe Utah can still show
it has both heart and common sense. We HAVE to take the vitriol out of this
discussion, or we are falling right into the pit of contention, and you know who
As a liberal American Democrat,All I can say is DARN,I wanted to the
republicans to keep their anti-people, anti-American worker stand.
Ah...seemingly the witch hunt is on! The Inquisition, aka the Utah State
Republican Convention, with its caucus elected myopics, has identified the
heretics and death will be by ballot box next November or perhaps earlier at the
Republican Nominating Convention! Democracy at work!
It wasn't too long ago, Utahns, when your forefathers' deplorable conditions
played a role in their embracing a new religion and heading to a different
location seeking a better life. If America had an immigration policy then where
only the wealthy and educated were welcomed, how many of you would be speaking a
I work in construction and i am always amazed at how the illegals i compete
against daily drive much newer and nicer vehicles than i do. Then I did the
math. I pay over $600 a month for not very good health insurance (while they
get theirs for free just by showing up at the emergency room). They also crowd
2 or 3 families into a house therefore paying little in property tax, but
sending their children to school for a free education, free breakfast, free
lunch. The list goes on. And we are discriminating?
I think it was great to see a real vote by republicans. Usually they all follow
along like little sheep and vote for the most far right position on the table.
I am glad they have shown that they can occasionally think for themselves. Now
if we could just convince the republicans that the way to get control of the
"illegal" problem is to put a heavy fine on the business owner who
hires them. No jobs, most of those who are here illegally go home.
@dave4197I rest my case about the name calling coming from your end
of the debate. I along with others against amnesty for law breakers welcome our
friends from south of the border with open arms when they come to our country
LEGALLY. There is nothing extreme, racist or redneck about that.
Recently moving from a very liberal state in the northwest that has a huge
illegal immigration problem. I have been disappointed in the high handed
approach by the talking heads favoring HB116 they have spun and denigrated those
who favor repeal. I am speaking of the Doug Wright show on KSL radio who seemed
to provide 90% of his time trashing as right wing or not real Utah those opposed
to 116. The same for slanted Deseret News editorial opinion pieces by Lavar
Webb, and general advocacy for 116 overall. Why so much credit to the Sutherland
Institute and its spokesman Paul Mero? It has all been a little overkill even
the questionable poll by Dan Jones and Associates. The courage of those
delegates to face down the money and politically powerful and do the right thing
is commendable. I hope there is some changes and even handed approach in the
future on this and other issues.
HB 116, if enacted, would encourage more illegal immigrants to flock to Utah.
With only a fine, efforts to learn English and renewal of a card every two
years, an illegal immigrant can stay here forever. Without the hassle and
threat now imposed in surrounding states, then illegal immigrants would be
induced to come here.Illegal immigrants know what is happening quicker
that you and I do. Their grapevine of communication is efficient. I have seen
it firsthand, told to me face-to-face by the immigrants themselves. In Texas
years ago, the day the migrante (US immigration officers) showed up to migrant
workers work to deport them, no one showed to their work. They already knew
that the migrante were coming that day. In Los Angeles, women who were 9 months
pregnant would sneak across the border illegally to deliver their child in the
US on US soil so that that child would be a US citizen. When I asked them why
they didnt deliver in San Diego, they told me that if they delivered in San
Diego, then they would be deported. In contrast, if they came to Los Angeles
they would not.
I find it interesting that as we approach 2012 that we have a seasoned
politician in Hatch. Yes, he has done well for Utah over the 3+ decades he has
been in office, but really, isn't it time to look at new candidates who really
mirror the wishes of the people of the state of Utah? I remember when he ran
way back when against incumbent Frank Moss, DEM. Hatch's platform was Moss is
out of touch with Utahns. Well, it appears that Hatch is out of touch with
Utahns. He has become Frank Moss. Why are we afraid to vote him out. Send him
into retirement. He is all about Hatch. Seasoned doesn't equal effectiveness.
Hatch, like salt has lost his savor. His position regarding illegal immigration
reminds me of the circus high wire act...tip toeing across the wire hoping not
to fall off on either side like the fence sitter he has become. He talks the
talk but doesn't walk the walk when it comes to his constituents. You can't
please everybody, but don't take sides with illegals, especially his DREAM ACT
which is more a nightmare for all of us. The free ride is over.
Oh, wheres my compassion? Well since illegal immigrants cannot be turned away
from our Emergency Rooms based on them being illegal, then they continue to
receive health care free to them, but paid for by you and me in higher health
care costs. Is that compassionate to young families who are US citizens or to
small businesses who may stop offering their employees health benefits because
of their rising costs. Who is milking the system? Why do we reward that
behavior? Wouldnt HB 116 continue to reward such behavior? Yes. Who then is
being compassionate? Is it compassionate when the children of illegal
immigrants flood our schools, at US citizens expense? Is it compassionate that
teachers have to teach English first before teaching reading and arithmetic? Is
it compassionate that those teachers cannot spend that time teaching more to our
English-speaking students? I applaud our compassionate neighborhood delegates
to ask the legislature to repeal and replace HB 116. We will next have the
opportunity to vote our legislators back in or out of office based on whether
they represented us.
One important thing we all saw in this recent HB 116 coverage was that the Des
News did not allow a single dissenting voice or article in all their coverage.
Look at your Des News this last week (if you still subscribe) a push pull
survey and two letters to the Editor favorable to HB 116 not a dissenting
opinion. I and others I know, wrote well-thought out pieces to the Letter to
the Editor of the Des News, but not one was published. If I recall correctly,
the Warsaw Signal (a newspaper near Nauvoo) was destroyed by Mormons unfavorable
to its free expression of speech, directly leading to the martyrdom of the
prophet Joseph. Attempts to suppress opinion and discussion are not good.
@WestGranger - you can't believe the 61% approval, this is a manipulated number
by pollster Dan Jones. The majority of people in the state don't support HB116,
if you poll a small sample in the proper demographic you can get the answer you
desire, but not the actual position of the people.
@Fred44I totally agree with you. However, a fine against the
employers is not necessary and runs into legal hurdles. The Supreme Court just
ruled that revoking the employers business license is perfectly legal for states
to do. Arizona has this law in place and I hope that Utah will soon follow.
This is so sad. I do not understand why there was not more discussion about the
messages for understanding and kindness that have come from President Monson,
Bishop Wester and so many other good people. Why has the Tea Party taken over
the LDS Church and the Republican Party in Utah?As a follower of
another Christian religion (so many in Utah feel the need to identify people
like me as "NON-Mormons"), I believe that one should not be obligated
to vote in line with the ministers of one's church. But what has that sentiment
taken on such a nasty and divisive spirit with my Mormon neighbors? I don't
know what gets preached in a Mormon church on Sunday, but I hope that every once
in a while, they hear the Good News that in Christ Our Lord we are brothers and
sisters. Like it or not, that means brown, black and white.
Charity is when someone is invited to sit at your table. When it is forced it
is just another tax.
Delegates and representatives at all levels of government have little interest
in representing their constituencies, but primarily serve their own purposes and
points of view. I called my Republican state delegate to ask him about his
position before he went to the convention. He was not at home the three times I
called, and didn't return the message I left.
To begin with, this never was a "guest worker program." It's a
convoluted, complicated, unmanageable cloak for ongoing amnesty as forced
through the processes by the cheap-labor lobby. Anyone who can't see this
absurdity for what it is has no business contending that they represent the
people of Utah or the United States . . . let alone any kind of
"conservative" values. It did serve as a valuable litmus test,
however, in sorting the proverbial wheat from the chaff in the political arena.
Now we need to act on it, and introduce some career politicians to life in the
actual "private sector," where they can join the rest of us in paying
taxes rather than spending them.
The only way I can see this working is to withhold half the untaxed money and
deposited it in a trust fund. When the workers return to their home country,
they may get their half at the USA embasy or consulate 3 months after they
Hunt, your posts supports the extremely small stream of those legally allowed to
immigrate. That's just like the jim crowers of the deep south who only allowed
the extremely small number of blacks who either could afford the poll tax or who
owned property to vote.I rest my case about the shoe that fits your
foot.The root problem in today's debate is poverty vs wealth, or education
vs lack of. Education can lead people out of poverty. Many of our parents
worked low skilled jobs to bring their family to a better life than they had.
We who are the beneficiaries of good educations, good jobs, an economy that's
opulent in relation to south of the border, we cannot afford to shut the door to
helping and extending opportunities to our neighbors. GOPer's are un-neighborly
in their resultion against hb116. Hunt, you need to point out ways that you, or
the GOPer's are on record to help this wave of poor refugees, then I'll respect
the party again.
@Uncle Mal: amen, brother.
I'm disappointed in the delegates. While sanctimoniously standing on their
"rule of law" plank, they strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. These
modern-day Pharisees will find one day when standing at the Pearly Gates that
their rule of law will expose them as illegal aliens. Whereupon THEY will be
@dave4197Your comparison assumes that our immigration policies are
racist. That's a big leap to take. I would argue that your stance in
support of HB116 is the racist one and here is why.Mexico's economy is
opulent in relation to the majority of the worlds nations. WE should be more
concerned about those poverty stricken nations that are much worse off than
Mexico and it's citizens. For your argument to work we would need to bring in
the most poverty stricken first as they see Mexicans who come here illegally as
wealthy and opulent in relation to there own plight.There are literally
billions worse off than Hispanics and we as a nation can't possibly help them
all through immigration. It is a better option to help them where they are.
Illegal immigration only serves to limit our ability as a nation to be
compassionate to other nations and races. HB116 serves to single out primarily
one race and nationality. If you would like a better solution,
google repeal hb116, go to the website and view the FAQ's. Lets
practice REAL compassion, not racism masked as compassion.
It's amazing how many people think "charity" and
"compassion" means surrendering your life and your property to
whomever wants to take it from you. "They just want a better life."
The same could be said of any bank robber or other criminal--just want a better
life. People who push for "compassion" almost always have a plan to
be compassionate with someone else's rights and property. And, in this case,
they want to the taxpayers to continue subsidizing the employers who want the
cheapest possible labor, with the taxpayers picking up the benefits. Why don't
you "compassionate" types get down to the third-world countries and
get compassionate with YOUR money--and leave ours alone for a change?
"A Deseret News/KSL TV poll found that 61 percent of Utahns favor the guest
worker program and most opposed the GOP effort to repeal the law."Polls can be skewed easily to get the desired results (and we know that the
Deseret News desires HB116). I myself heard a caller call into Rod Arquette's
radio show the other day who said that he had been phoned by the Dan Jones
company for this very poll. Among the preliminary, qualifying
questions he was asked were these: Q. What is your education
level.A. Post-graduate degreeQ. Do you read the newspaper.A. No, I don't like to read the newspaper.Q. Do you use the
Internet.A. Yes.Q. Do you listen to the radio.A. Yes.
At that, the respondent was DISQUALIFIED for the poll. How interesting. And what determined exactly who the Dan Jones
company would call? Was it random? Were certain surnames targeted? Were
certain telephone prefixes targeted (which correspond quite well to important
demographic features). Surely Dan Jones is aware of these prefix maps -- and is
well aware of Salt Lake Valley demographics.61% of all Utahn's based
on 406 respondents? Ridiculously inaccurate.
Way to go Delegates!!! I hope Bramble, Lockheart, Shurtleff, Richardson, Wright,
Stephenson, Dougall, Reid and Herbert can read the writing on the wall. Next
election cycle they are gone!We the people still have a voice left in this
Country and we are not going to allow these politicians to ruin our country. We
will hold their feet to the fire.The more they resist repealing HB116 the
more likely they will be voted out of office soon!
Yes!!! This call for civility and love of neighbors is wonderful news! I
can't wait to start feeling the increased love by those who have been taking
advantage of my country for years.Preying on the good will of people
and hiding out in their country is not civil nor an act of loving your neighbor.
I give generously to the LDS church and many other organizations
that help people in need of any race or legal status. I love my neighbors and
always, always act with civility and compassion with people of all races. Having someone protest against me and my fellow citizens really hasn't
felt like love nor civility and I'm glad issue has been brought to light.
anti-liar, you seem desparate to paint the idea that many in our state support
116 as nothing more than a deceptive scam. I'm against deceptive scams, so if
you get your proof, please provide it. But I'm also an active GOP state
delegate that strongly supports the Utah Compact, HB116 as a part of our Utah
improvements to the current situation, and who very much appreciated and
understood the LDS Church's involvement in the issue. Again, all that said, if
you can prove the DesNews poll was that twisted and manipulated than I'd like to
know because maybe next time it won't skew in favor of an issue the way I see
it. So -- while I'm dubious -- please look into this in more detail.
I'm so grateful to the Utah delegates who stood firm in the face of pressure by
the state's power brokers (LDS Church, media, CofC, etc.). I was not impressed
by the Church's stance on this issue and its efforts to propogandize it. In
fact, I found it disgusting and disturbing that they would do this without
regard for the message it sends, let alone the well being of our nation.
@UtahVoter "anti-liar, you seem desperate to paint the idea
that many in our state support 116 as nothing more than a deceptive
scam."I despair of fact that that is what it is. Proof? I could mention many things.Let's take the Utah Compact,
for example, which surely all, on both sides, would agree was the foreordained
and anointed "messenger to prepare the way" for Utah House Bill 116.
According to its very subtitle, the Utah Compact claims to intend to help
"guide" the immigration discussion now in progress. Given
that the very nature and substance of the "discussion" at hand
necessarily requires making a distinction between legal and illegal immigration,
it is profoundly noteworthy that the authors of the Utah Compact knowingly
refuse to acknowledge that distinction. Indeed, they seek to lead the reader to
believe that in fact there is no difference between the two -- AND, therefore,
that BOTH should be embraced. Certainly this was the principal,
intended message of the Utah Compact. And certainly it was an
attempt to deceive -- since illegal immigration is of course NOT right, and
therefore should NOT be embraced. So there's an example for ya.
The poll is another.
Since I am new to the area and just learning the ropes. The process of
indentifying the power players and their positions has been most
interesting.Utah has its own unique style. I believe the vote to repeal 116
showed remarkable courage and I applaud those delegates that stood up and voted.
Been traveling and just got home to the great news!! Thank you, thank you
Delegates. At last the people won. The people are legal, hardworking,
taxpaying, ordinary citizens. We have been heard. In spite of the tremendous
pressure put on by the media, radical legal organizations, one only-ethic group
organizations, certain religious organizations, the GOV, the AG, the Chief,
Tony, Luz and Doug the people still won. Those groups used strong lobbying
tactics, timing their statements to have the most impact, and somewhat devious
smoke-filled-room arm twisting and still the people prevailed. The Delegates
didn't cave. Viva LEGAL immigration.