Trade possibilities could change things but I don't see the Jazz trading the #3
pick, you don't get a #3 pick very often. I hope they pick a big with the 3rd
pick, again you don't get talented bigs in every draft and if you do they
usually go in the top 3 to 5 picks. We need to take a big. I like Kanter but
Jonas V. would be a good pick too, he just might not be ready to contribute for
a yr or two. I watched an interview he gave today and he doesn't speak English
very well, communications could be a problem.I would love to see Jimmer
still available at 12, (don't think he'll be there), he would fill some big
needs the Jazz have, namely outside shooting and a ball handler that can create.
To me Knight isn't any better than Jimmer, if fact right now he's not as good
but Knight is only 19 and he will improve but so will Jimmer. Jimmer is a better
shooter, better handles, better passer, better after contact, better at getting
to the line. Knight probably a little better at D.
Thought is was interesting that today on 1320 Coach Gordie Cheaza was on and at
the end he stated who he would take at 3 and 12, he would take Kanter at 3 and
Jimmer or Singleton at 12. That's exactly how I see it. Alot of people
don't want to give Jimmer the credit he deserves, nor do they think he can be as
good as those in the know feel, it was good to hear Gordie's comments about
Knight-Singleton or Kanter-Fredette?On the one hand, Knight and
Kanter are both unknowns (minimal experience), but do show a lot of promise.On the other hand, Singleton and Fredette are knowns (3-4 years of
experience), and also show a lot of promise.The differences are:- The unknowns/knowns, which each combo has equally.- The
positions, a center vs a small forward (both have guards).So, if the
Jazz value a center more than a small forward, or vice versa, that is likely to
determine which way they go on the 3rd pick.HOWEVER, I strongly
believe the Jazz are going to be doing some trading. This 3-12 thing just won't
work out all that well in this particular draft.I wouldn't be
surprised by either of these scnearios:> The Jazz trade someone
like Harris, Miles, or Millsap to get their 12th pick moved up much higher (plus
something else). Then, they can get the two players they really covet, whoever
they are.> The Jazz trade their 12th pick for someone else's
first round pick for next year, giving the Jazz two first rounders in what might
be a better draft for big men.
I watched the tape I could find on Valanciunas. At this point I
learn toward Valanciunas over Kanter mainly because he has played all year and
can be evaluated. However, V is long and has good reach. He will gain weight and
a mid range game with time. Kanter is fast and agile for a big his
size but so is V. Kanter is average in max reach, vert and arm length. His size
is a major plus if he keeps his quicks as he gets older and heavier.Think about the combinations of AJ, Favors and V on both offense and defense.
That is a lot of versatility.I also read pros and cons on Knight. He
has more weaknesses than most 3 picks. I am not sure he is better than Jimmer
right now but he is young. Both will need time to develop into a good NBA PG.I do not think Jimmer fits SAC that well. I think he has a 50% chance of
being there at 12. The Jazz will see what they can get for
Harris/Millsap and then decide on PG/BIG at 3.
I would be OK with Jonas V. but he wouldn't be able to help as soon. Either
Kanter or Jonas at 3, I would be happy about and Jimmer at 12. I can hope.
I just read about Williams workout at Minn. today and Tony Ronzone assistant GM
for Minn. said he loved Williams handles, if Williams can play the 3, I'd love
to get him.
Our defense is awfully lousy--we've always needed a shot-blocking, rebounding
center, and we need someone who can guard strong shooting guards--so I like the
Knight/Singleton combo versus any others--I'd actually like Knight/Biyombo--the
Jazz has never been synonymous with "athletic prowess," it would be
nice to get some athletic players in here for a change.
If the Jazz take Knight at 3, I would like BB at 12, either him or Singleton.
I read today that Williams can't jump unless he uses both feet, that amounts to
an extra step which means a blocked shot in the NBA. Williams is also a tweener.
He is not an SF and not that much better than Millsap. He also would be the
heaviest SF to ever come thru the combine. The article went on to
make a case for a high bust potential on Williams as an SF. I would prefer
Singleton at SF or maybe Vesley. They are true SFs. Kanter worries
me. He is high potential reward but could easily be average at the NBA level. It
is really hard to judge even the Euros with lots of game film. Koufos played
well at the D-league level.Is Knight really going to be better than
Jimmer in the long run? Jimmer can shoot and pass. His D is going to be okay.
Can either Jimmer or Knight run a team better than Price?Price had
ALL of the tools but never learned to run a team.It is so close that
KOC is waiting for trades to decide which way he goes. KOC seems pretty flexible
and comprehensive in analysis.
BB is supposed to be dropping. He is doing individual workouts in the states to
try to help his cause. He is working out for NY at 17. You can probably move
down and get him. He will take a long time to develop. You could
plug him in for a few minutes on the 2nd string for defense but he is not going
to start or be a major help for years. Fes already has that role for cheap.
I'm with bugoff - I think Jonas V fits the Jazz better than Kanter and somehow
get Jimmer after Jonas with the 3 pick.If cannot get Jimmer then
Singleton or Thompson would be goodTrades will have to happen,
Harris, CJ, Milsap & Memo
bug: I would like to know who is telling you, me, us, or anyone for that matter
that being a two legged jumper is bad or makes you slow, it just isn't true,
Charles Barkley was a two legged jumper, it is what allows you to go up strong,
powerful, on balance and in control. Most players can jump and do jump using one
leg at times but most basketball skills are performed off of two legs.
Jumpshots, reobunding, you have to have momentum to jump one legged. It isn't
slower too pivot into a two legged jump. I'm sure Williams can and does jump off
of one leg at times, he just prefers going off of two legs because he can go up
higher, under more control, with more power and balance. To criticize Williams
or any player for jumping off of two legs, like it is a problem doesn't make
sense. All players jump off of two legs , most just do both, guards use a one
legged floater shotinthepaint but most shots are taken off of two legs, most
rebounds are off of two legs. Tell me the article and who this is coming from.
Saying Williams is a tweener doesn't mean it is necessarily bad, if he can
defend the 3, his size and bulk will end up being an asset. I think he has the
athleticism , quickness, speed, etc to play D against the 3's in the league, he
has the range on his shot, and if he has the handles (like Ronzone says he has),
there isn't any reason he won't be able to play the 3, having players that are
versatile is what KOC likes. Singleton can play multiple positions,(3/4). Milsap
show skills to allow him to play the 3, it is his quickness and speed on D that
is the concern as to whether or not he can play the 3 fulltime.Williams
size kinda reminds me of Melo, Williams is taller tough but will have to prove
he can shoot like Melo.
The reason the Jazz are in trade talks is so they can move up from 12 to secure
Jimmer I am sure with his rising interest from other teams. I think he is still
under rated and will do well in the NBA.
All of you so-called Gm's are killing me. This "instant gratification"
generation mentality will put this Jazz organization right where the U.S.
economy is now-"In the toilet". There is "not" one rookie in
this draft that will be a team changer for any team this next year and possibly
the next year. Keep the team core together that finished the season last year
together until at least the trade deadline in Feb to see how well they jell.
After all because of multi small injuries this team never played together after
the D-Will trade last year, and I think they can be much better than alot of you
so-called GM's think. Elson, Watson, and Price can be let go, alhad seen the
reason to do so if I had a sayong with Miles and Bell in trade scenario's but I
wouldn't start an overhaul until I
Whoa I hit the wrong key. To finish my comment properly I would keep what we
have except for the 3 or 4 released players mentioned and trade picks and Miles,
Bell for quality young veterans at positions needed. No rooks please Kevin,
there is none with the ability to help in the next 2 years, and what we have now
just needs time together with some moderate tweaking at one or two positions (SG
& SF). NO Knight, Jimmer, Kanter, let others "gamble" on these
unprovens, we have 3 rooks now. Develop Favors, Hayward and Evans and forget
adding more inexperience through this draft "PLEASE"!
@Bugoffyou have probably read the article on draftexpress for
Kanter...Kanter has really few vids...yes he is coached in Kentucky...but...it
wont do you good unless you use it in a game...so...there is a High risk on
Kanter...this is why his stock fell to number 6...and Knight was projected
3...if they get a trade to the wiz...for paul millsap + bell and a future 2nd
round pick...for their first pick...now we are talking...you have 3 6 and
12...thus getting you a PG in jimmer...gamble on the sometimes lost Valaciunas
at 3...and singleton at 12...there is no way Williams would fall at the 3 anyway
I see posters making comparisons of Kanter to Kosta Koufous implying that they
would both be busts in the NBA. Regarding Koufous, remember, especially with big
men it can take a few years for them to develop their game in the NBA. We didn't
get a chance to see Koufous that much while playing for the Jazz but I remember
a game last year where Koufous killed the Jazz in a game in Denver I believe. He
could still become a pretty good player in this league. Also, remember when Kris
Humpries played here? He's another big guy that didn't stay with the Jazz too
long but last year in New Jersey he really started to become a pretty important
player. Even players like Marc Gasol took time to start having an impact. So if
the Jazz take a big with number 3 which I hope the do, I don't know if you can
expect great things this year. Favors has a year under his belt now and
hopefully we will start to see more of his potential down the road too.
Bugoff: I rewatched Williams Highlight video and just in that little clip
Williams jumps off of one leg at least 4 time, he plays like most normal, good
basketball players do, they go off of two legs most of the time and jump off of
one leg when the situation requires it. Some players like Karl Malone were more
one legged jumpers , others like Barkley, (Harpring,KJohnson) prefer two legged
jumping. Jeremy Evans is a two legged jumper but will go off of one if
necessary, he is also a quick jumper, even with his second or third jump. It
doesn't have anything to do with going off of one leg or two, it has to do with
quick twitch muscles, reaction time,etc. I heard Locke critisize Williams for
this a week or two ago and it has bugged me ever since, he hasn't played the
game and doesn't know what he is talking about. I would like to know where he is
getting his info from though, he usually doesn't come up with something like
this on his own. What was the article you read that mentioned it.
Why take BB??? He cannot score the bball, I believe we already have the dude
with the hops, and a defensive mentality in Jeremy Evans. Sure he needs to bulk
up, but this kid has heart and can jump outta the gym. He also has a very high
FG% Unlike BB. JE just needs to bulk up also, at end of season AK said he
loves Utah, and that he doesn't need more money.. We'll see about that. If the
russian owner Prokhorov of the Nets, want's his Russian comrade, AK is bye bye.
Also, the Jazz will not just give CJ away for nothing, he is a long athletic,
shooter/scoring SF just what the Jazz need-name another player we could get
from any other team that would fill his shoes for the same price were paying CJ?
KOC should think long and hard before putting Millsap on the trading block.
Sure, he is a tweener and has liabilities, especially on defense. But over the
years he has shown himself to be reliable in the clutch -- I think especially of
how many times he gave the Lakers fits in the playoffs while Carlos disappeared.
The recently concluded championship series again demonstrated that talent in
and of itself does not necessarily prevail over determination and basketball
IQ.Besides, he has a desirable contract for a veteran in his prime
years. Keep him and let him come off the bench.
I have to be honest. Even if the Jazz end up with a decent team this year, the
current cast just doesn't excite me. Seriously, who is really worth watching?
The only real intrigue for me would be seeing how Fredette fares as a productive
player. Could he wind up a bust? Maybe. But so could anyone other selection. I
must admit, if the Jazz don't draft him, I will probably not spend too much time
following the Jazz this year. Sorry, but that's how I feel. Last year, to me was
excruciatingly boring."I gotta fever, and the only prescription
is... more Jimmer!" (Bruce Dickinson [Christopher Walken]voice)
This is a weak draft. So any trade should be draft pick for a proven player,
not the other way around. For example, Millsap is a good but not great power
forward and he is probably better than any player in this draft. By the time
any of the current draft develop into a decent player they might be available as
a free agent.
Old timer: From one old timer to an other: There are several ways of trying to
rebuild or reload, I think KOC and the Jazz are trying to follow the OKC method,
gain valuable assets thru the draft, develop them and then use them as trade
chips. It makes sense, Boston did it. That is how they got Ray Allen and
Garnett. If all these young playes develop you have options, you can keep them
or trade them. Trying to get players via trade or FA to Utah isn't the best way,
many players don't think they would like Utah, and so they don't want to approve
a trade or sign as a free agent. Building thru the draft is smart, especially if
you have several high picks, which we do this yr and next.
Cool Hand Luke: BB isn't anything like Evans , Evans can't gain weight, he is
just one of those kids that can't gain weight, that is why in his exit interview
he was to work on his game so he can play the 3. BB is 245 lbs, chiseled,
longer, tough and able to play in the paint, Evans can't, he is too thin.BB would give us something we haven't had in years and that is a presence in
the paint that would change the game. The fact he doesn't have much of an
offense isn't a big thing. Eaton couldn't score, Tag couldn't score but we had
our best teams with them in the middle. BB will score 10 t 12 pts a game just on
hustle points. My preference is Kanter and Jimmer but BB at 12 would be
good. Jonathon Givony (draft express) & the scout (nba scout on
LockedonJazz) both think BB has as good a chance as anyone to be an all star out
of this draft.
I can't wait for a week when it is all said and done. Let the Jazz staff handle
the draft. It is no like the Fans have a say or a vote.. By this time next week
you will have to learn to live with it anyway..
Kanter's nickname is "The Bull from Istanbul". He plays strong and
physical basketball, the exact opposite of Koufos. That comparison is
ridiculous. Kanter's game is back-to-the-basket, 15 feet and in. He
is a rebounding machine who uses his body to get what he wants. He's almost
exactly the same size as Karl Malone and he's chiseled and in shape like a young
Karl. Enes Kanter's body movements and style of play look just like Al Horford.
Write this in stone. The Jazz will not take Jimmer under any circumstances no
matter how good he might be. It has nothing to do with Jimmer and everything to
do with who the Jazz believe they are and political correctness.
Watch video of Brandon Knight and you'll see a less muscular Andre Miller with a
3 point shot. Knight's body movements and moves around the basket mirror
Andre's moves. They've got very similar games. Both took their team to the
title game and came up short. Both are solid, solid people. So,
which would you take at #3? Al Horford or Andre Miller? That's essentially the
choice, assuming Kanter and Knight stay free from injuries and continue to
Ford just reported that Valanciunas measured in Trevizo Eurocamp at 7ft, 245lbs.
Kid is still growing, that is taller and heavier then year ago by 2 inches and
15lbs. Great motor, big heart, great hands. Very humble kid, just listen to his
interview on draftexpress, all he talks about how he needs to practice and hard
work, and no matter what team drafts him - would be Sloan's favorite if he still
coached. Not surprisingly all Euroscouts agree that he is hands down best center
in a draft and competition is not even close. Jazz should go with him at 3 and
get Jimmer or Singleton at 12.
Trade all the picks for established players where you know what you are getting.
i have to agree with the old timer in one respect.....this draft stinks and
these guys that we are picking at 3 and 12 would normally be #10 and number #20
picks.There is not one of these guys that will be difference makers
for years to come. Brandon Knight is not a starting PG next year
and if they are trading Harris then that means Earl Watson is our starter?Kanter? This guy is a ghost. Go to draft express and read. There is
alot of "potential" upside and alot of known downside. Givony called
him lazy and uninterested in anything related to defense. That is all I need to
know.If this team loses AK, Millsap, or both heaven forbid then this
team is totally devoid of defense and the last thing we need is another big that
can't defend. We already have one of the worst big man defenders in the league
with Jefferson. He blocks a few shots sure but he has horrible rotations and
does not block out on rebounds worth squat.Trade and get some known
@Winglish and what games you saw to judge that about Kanter? He had not played
organized club basketball for last year and 4 games in Euroleague he sucked
averaging 2pts and 1.5 reb. Did you see how he gives no effort on defense and
even smaller kids score on him?? I doubt you can say that about Horford. At best
and that is BIG IF Kanter is poors man Jefferson on offense and Boozer on
defense. Why would Jazz need him???
The article asked the question "Should the Jazz draft Jimmer to appease the
locals"? I think Jimmer satisfies a major need for this team, and I don't
care what school he came from. Jimmer's body is used to playing in this climate
and elevation. Yes he does have an established fan base here, but put all of
that aside, and look at his credentials. Jimmer will do what is asked of him. If
the Jazz want him to be a pass first PG, I think he will have no problem doing
that.It is a totally different dynamic in terms of building through
this draft based on the two obvious scenarios: Kanter-3 Jimmer-12 or Knight-3
Singleton-12. I see the conflict of interest with both worse case
and best case scenarios, and I think that KOC has some very tough decisions to
make in the next week or so. I think this Jazz team will be better
no matter what, as long as we get some help on the perimeter.Lets go
Irving, Knight, or Walker...D-Will 2.Kanter...Name the last big the Jazz drafted that lived up to the draft hype. Euros...See Fesenko.Consider:Outside of
the big 2, the draft has been a crap shoot for the Jazz.Jazz player
development has been suspect.Weak Draft 2012.Prediction:Like a moth drawn to the flame, Jazz will take Knight
@3.Package #12.And see Jimmer become a solid player for
a future NBA Championship team.
Valanciunas has more known aspects than Kanter. Both have great upside, but the
former has more known qualities and playing ability. At 7' and 245#s (up about
10 from last year), he would be a big help in the middle. Has some known
scoring ability. We don't know about Kanter. Both appear to have heart and
desire. As Layden said year ago, "you can't teach height". Both
would be a bit of a gamble, but I feel better about V over K. The Jazz have a
bigger problem than who to draft at the 2. If they have a chance to get Jimmer
with their #12, either having an opportunity to trade their #12 up, or Jimmer
falls to #12 and they do not draft him, I think the Jazz will be in a big world
of hurt. That is especially so if he becomes an NBA star. I see him being a
John Stockton, but with better offense. He appears to have a "John
Stockton" like body, and the moves of John on offense. The Jazz will have
to live down with their fans if he becomes a star and they had a chance but
didn't draft him.
Sorry, I meant #3 not #2. I mis-typed.
JazzNation: I agree, Kanter at 3 and Jimmer at 12, Coach Gordie Cheaza agrees
too, he said Kanter and Jimmer or Singleton. If the Jazz take Knight at 3, I
hope they can get Singleton or BB at 12.
Release Elson and Price, sign Watson for 1 yr @ max 2-3mil, A.K. for no more
than 5mil, Fess for no more than 2mil, develop Favors, Hayward, and Evans to go
with Jefferson, Milsap and Memo. Trade Bell & Miles W/pks for wing
players(incl a shooter). Trade #12 for a 2nd rounder or two. If @ feb trade
deadline anyone is not cutting it, get them gone. This team has "vast"
potential without much help besides some minor tweaking, so no overhaul is
needed Kevin! Just stay away from this draft and more rookies, we have 3 now and
this draft is very, very, very weak from top to bottom, no one in it is going to
help at all, and at best it would take 3 years. We don't need that!
I just do not see what Kanter brings to the table over Favors or Jefferson, just
doesn't make sense. Plus he plays with no effort on defense - why we would need
another copy of Boozer? Valanciunas on the other hand would be great.
Calgary, Kanter showed no effort in some High School games, he was 17 and didn't
always put forth the effort he should have but that doesn't mean he can't or
won't. His coach Calapari says he would take Kanter #1, some may say that is
because he was his coach but the was also the coach of Knight, why would he say
Kanter is the best player in the draft when he could say Knight is, he showed
who he thought was the best by saying Kanter would be his #1 pick. Plus he
showed his potential against the top US players at the Nike Hoops Summit and he
dominated against players like Sulinger, PJones, TJones, & Barnes, 34 pts 13
boards in 22 minutes. Kanter is a better athlete than Big Al, he is bigger,
6'11, Big Al is an unathletic 6'10.
Captain L...He is not better athlete then Big AL. Check their combine results.
AL has better maximum reach, longer wingspan and better no step vertical. Plus
Al is 20 lbs heavier. Kanter is huge huge risk due to the fact that only game to
evaluate is Nike Hoops summit which is not a competitive game and more like
all-star show... I would not put any value in that. Kanter played total of 4
games in Euroleague where he was non factor with 2 pts and 1.5 reb. average.
That tells me more then Nike Hoop Summit game.
Calgary: I agree Kanter could be a big risk, but he could also be a big reward,
I love his skill set, on the other hand I like Jonas V. he has a better motor
from what I've seen and he has a great attitude. He would probably need to stay
over in Europe for a yr. I would be happy if they picked Jonas. KOC and staff
spent alot of time over in Europe and I think it must have been for a reason. I
could easily see the #3 pick be Jonas or Vesely. Jonas is the safest pick. He
really needs help with his English , hope that won't cause communication
problems for him.Jimmer or Singleton at 12, maybe BB, if they took Knight.
Unless KOC gets a deal on the table that blows his socks off, why on earth would
you trade Milsap? Milsap may not be the best option as a starter, but we sure
won a lot of games with him coming off the bench. I love Milsap, he is a work
horse and a rebounding /scoring threat. Please don't trade Milsap,
unless we are getting a super-star in return!
Please, please stop with the "EK's amazing show at the Nike Hoops
summit" nonsense..One game people? I believe someone already stated the
obvious regarding this one game--it isn't that competitive people/a glorified
All-star game. Just stop with the rhetoric. I could also care less what Coach C.
is saying about him (Enes)--not credible--could be nothing more than a marketing
ploy. Bottom line--we don't have a TRUE #5 and we need this. Kanter is a #4
(mentioned by himself many times) and not a true #5. If this "V" kid
has it then we need to look at him. We already have three PF in Favors, AJ and
Sap. Why on earth would we need another #4??? Help me understand this? In two
years Favors and/or Kanter will just want out of UT-not smart. Oh, Big AL is
going to never be a true #5--EVER. Get a true Center who can D it up
and be a dominant presence in the middle and a proven "sharp" shooter
to spread the offense. In a perfect world someone who can be a true PG, play D
and shoot from beyond.
Calgary: I did look up Big Al's combine numbers and there is a difference in Al
and Kanter, Kanter is much more agile, his lane agility time was 11.3 compared
to Al's 13.09, significant difference, speed Kanter only slightly faster,
strength Kanter was much stronger, 14 benches to 3 for big Al, Vert. Kanter 2.5
in higher, Big Al was 1 in. greater wingspan, .5 in better reach, Kanter 1.5 in.
taller, wingspan, reach, height don't have anything to do with athleticism.
Kanter moves better than Big Al, bottom line. That being said, I wouldn't care
to much whether the Jazz took Kanter or Jonas , both in 3 yrs would be an
upgrade (IMO)to our front court.
amgolfer: Calm down. It's not a matter of Kanter being a true 5, it's a matter
of upgrading our present front court, and Kanter would do that, especially in 3
yrs, Just because you don't like Calipari doesn't make him uncredable, I would
agree if he were comparing Kanter to other players but my point was he would
take Kanter over Knight. I'm not that high on Knight (safe but not great).
Calipari rated Kanter higher than Knight. Just because Kanter wants to play 4
doesn't mean he won't play alot of 5, he loves to bang and is good in the low
post. Kanter vs Jonas, Kanter is much more skilled, Jonas is probalbly a safer
pick, but he will take longer to contribute, Jonas has a good motor, taller,
longer, more defensive minded,(needs more weight), limited offensive skills, not
nba ready yet.If Vesely could shoot, he may be the best pick, KOC and
staff spent a lot of time in Europe, I'd be surprised if they didn't pick a big
from there.Jimmer would fill the need for outside shooting and a player
who can put the ball on the floor and create.
Williams may turn into something. Jazz need to shovel out the coop, time
to let go of Elson, Price, Fes, AK, CJ (somebody inadvertantly called him a
shooter) and Bell. Incidentally trading for proven veterans did not work with
the Bell experiment. Try out Jimmer he is hands down a better
shooter than Korver plus he can pass and dribble and is uncanny at getting to
the line. He will be a bargain for a few years yet.The Jazz need to
make changes in order to be better, KOC has his work cut out for him and it is
unlikely he will be able to make the changes he needs to this season.
Question-Is there anyone who would not trade the #3 pick and Okur's
$11M expiring contract for Andre Iguadola and his 3 yr $12M/yr contract and the
Sixer's #16 pick?I would give up Kanter or Knight in a heartbeat for
this. A guy like Andre I. would be #1 or #2 in this draft. I have to admit
that Jonas V's potential makes it a harder choice as far as he is concerned.
Captain L: How much weight decent defensive center needs? Jonas at 245lbs and
7ft ( recent measurements in Italy Eurocamp) is already heavier then T.Chandler,
Biedrins, Noah, Camby just to name a few. Kid just turned 19 month ago, he will
easily reach 260-265 lbs by the time he is 23-25 years. I agree that
Kanter may turn out into a good post up oriented player but he doesn't fill Jazz
needs as well as Jonas - I see Kanter at best as Scola type verstile
scorer/rebounder but not much impact on defense. And Jazz can wait 2-3 years for
Jonas to grow and mature, we are not competing for championship next year or in
2012-2013 season. All in all IMHO Jonas and Fredette would be best
realistic combo from this draft baring any trades.
Calcary: I like Jonas, I'm not against picking him, I'm basing my thoughts that
he needs more weight by what I see in his lastest game films. Jonas would give
us the more ideal center and I love his motor, and his attitude. I have
vacilated some (in my mind) between Kanter vs Jonas, a week or two ago I watched
some new Jonas film and made the comment on Lockes site that Jonas may be the
best pick at 3. He is the safest pick. The fact he shoots 90% from the line
makes me think he can develop a 18 to 20 foot jumper to add to his game. His
interview on DX makes me worry he may struggle with communications but thats not
a big problem. If we(Jazz)can get Jonas and Jimmer I'd be tickled.
If Jimmer goes to Phoenix at #13 and looks like a Nash Replacement in the next
two years.... Connor's gets walking papers towards the end of the 12-13 season.
Calgary, you keep throwing up outdated 2008 statistics about Enes Kaner from his
4 appearances as a 16-year-old in a professional league. You name me the last
kid who scored even a single point in the NBA at sixteen years of age and you
might have some credibility. Now for the most recent statistics
available:2009 European Championships: Nine games, 18.6 ppg, 16.8 rpg, 1.8
bpg. FG 54%, FT 70%That's right. Kanter averaged a double-double against
the best the world has to offer at seventeen years of age. Now what? At the 2010 Nike Hoop Summit, Kanter scored 34 points and grabbed 13 rebounds
in only 24 minutes of play for the World Select Team in a 101-97 USA win. This
guy can play and he will be big time. He's also very, very young. He would
have only been a freshman in college and at 6'11", 260 lbs. Kanter is still
Man, reading these comments just cements why I call 15 to 40 year olds the
"Now" & "Instant gratification" generation. Thank god
none of you are the Jazz decision makers. It will not surprise me if A.K., Memo,
don't play for the Jazz this year and contribute big time! Now put Favors,
Milsap, Hayward, Jefferson, Harris, Fess and Evans with this group along with a
free agent and a trade and it's my belief that we are very serious contenders
again. How many years do all of you want to wait on rookies? Get serious fans,
and quit the fantasy crap.
Winglish: Forget Nike summit game, it is show off exhibition game with no value
at all. Nobody is playing for points, standings,playoffs or medals there. Light
type run and gun game ( ala All Star game ) where nobody plays team basketball
or defense. Rubish like in evaluations of draft prospect. U18
Europchampionship is diferent but look what Kosta Koufos averaged here: 25pts,
13reb, 3.5 blk. Look what Jonas Valanciunas averaged here: 19.8pts, 14reb, 2.7
blk. Kanter at that time was way bigger then everybody there - biological age of
south europeans needs to be taken in consideration, they mature fast, stop
growing at age of 16-17 and dominate vs northern europeans at that age.... later
they fade when faced vs same size players - look what happened to Kosta.
Stats from Euroleague are from 2008/2009 season so he was 17 years at that time
- not much difference from Jonas at 18 years from last season when he averaged
7.8 pts and 5.4 reb while shooting 72%FG and 85% FT in the same league and had
best overall stats per 40 min basis.
Winglish I suggest you enter "Enes Kanter defensive breakdown" on
Youtube.... will make you miss Boozer.
i don't think you can have the #3 pick, two more rookies to go along
with two sophmores and expect to be a fun productive team anytime soon!
Please, the Youtube breakdown on Kanter is as a 15-year-old playing on a high
school varsity team. The knock on Kosta was always his reluctance to
get physical. He remains afraid of contact...typical European softy.Both Valanciunas and Kanter are physical. Neither is afraid to mix it up.
Valanciunas is more hustle, but in his own words today when asked about who he
compares himself to in the NBA, "Currently my role on the court is limited
due to lack of physical strength."Kanter has an NBA skill right now-
rebounding. He can step in today and average 10 boards per game. Think Paul
Millsap fetish for boards, but in a 6'11" body...Again, he's only 19 years
old so of course he'll need development.
No matter who the Jazz draft this year, including their first rounder next year,
with who they have currently on the team (and could bring back, like Watson and
AK), they won't be a contender any time soon. Too much youth already on board to
develop (Favors, Hayward, and Evans).In other words, the Jazz are in
a REBUILDING MODE.Therefore, more rookies from this year's draft
won't be a negative, as some commenters are saying.@ Vince,All those players need a distributing PG. The Jazz don't yet have one. Jimmer
could fit that bill. More so than Knight or Harris.
There are pros and cons to both Kanter and Jonas, KOC and staff will do their
homework, I just hope they choose one of them and not Knight. It's not that I
hate Knight , I just want us to get a big with the #3 pick. There are a lot more
good possibilities at 12 if we go big at 3.
Jonas V. shoots 90% as a center? And the Jazz don't want him? Huh?You KNOW centers that try to score and rebound get fouled a lot. What an
asset! I'd take him over Kanter for that reason alone.If Jonas has
ANY talent in defense or offense (or both), he shouldn't be passed up.Maybe KOC is thinking this, but making sure we're all thinking otherwise so he
can get him, but at 12th!That way he can be sure to get Jimmer (at
3rd). Jimmer won't be there at 12. Jimmer will have a more immediate and longer
lasting impact for the Jazz than Knight.I posted before that I think
trades are going to happen that'll change the Jazz draft order so that they can
get who they want.My vote is now for a Jimmer/Jonas package. Think
about it: 90%+ foul shooting from both your C and PG; unstoppable offense in
Jimmer; a true center in Jonas; dependable trey shooting from Jimmer;
penatrating PG who knows how to get to the foul line; PG that knows how to pass
(ask Kemba).These are all things the Jazz need, and perhaps haven't
Here are the differences I see between Knight and Jimmer:- Jimmer
has greater range than Knight--MUCH greater.- Knight is quicker than
Jimmer, but Jimmer's cross-over nullifies that supposed advantage. Ask Kemba.- Jimmer doesn't mind contact inside (and can finish with contact),
while Knight likes to avoid it (slighter build, so contact can throw off his
shots).- Jimmer is more experienced than Knight. You can't discount
experience and maturity.- Jimmer is more likely to average more
assists than Knight, as I believe Knight is just another Harris/Iverson type,
due to his quickness. Jimmer showed in college he can assist well, especially
when his teammates can hit shots.I see that as 4.5 to 0.5 in favor
of Jimmer.Any disagreements? Any other comparison points?
Winglish who are you kidding? this video breakdown is from Stoneridge Prep games
spanning from November 2009 to January 2010. Very disappointing no show on
defense, you can't fake it. At least JV gives 200% effort every time he steps on
All in all if Sloan would still be here he would chose JV over Kanter no doubt.
Hard working hustling kid not afraid of dirty work -typical Sloan type guy. He
is gym rat who will only get better. 7ft. 245lbs now with frame to put 20-25 lbs
easily in next couple years and still growing. Yes, he will not help Jazz this
year a lot and most he could hope would be about 12-15 min a game but he would
be instant crowd favorite aka Ewans due to his crazy hustle and effort. And in 2
years imagine 7'1, 265lbs center next to Favors. Best front line in the West
Jimmer's APGs were consistent during his starter years (Soph=4.1, Junior=4.7,
Senior=4.3); and, he got more assists his Junior year (4.7/game) because he
didn't need to be the primary scorer as much as his Senior year.Saying he can't assist in the pros, and that Knight, et al, would assist
better is ludicrous, because they didn't have any better assist stats, and they
were on teams that had better overall shooters than BYU did, especially in
Jimmer's Senior year. So, they should have had many more assists than Jimmer's
average, if they're supposed to be better at it.Jazz coach Tyrone
Corbin said about Jimmer (in SI), "He's a point guard. His passing is
underrated and people will see that when he gets to the next level and doesn't
have to carry his team."Pretty much what I've been saying all
European Championships semi-final game against Serbia, one of Europe's best
teams, Kanter's line = 40 points, 27 rebounds. Head-to-head matchup
with Jonas Valanciunas, each guarding the other?Kanter= 35 points, 19
rebounds, 4 blocksJV= 14 points, 5 reboundsMy gut feeling?
Big man talk is irrelevant. The Jazz will take Knight #3 and one of the six
SF's they're bringing in tomorrow. Ryan Feldman reports that the
Jazz are working hard to trade down to the 4,5,6 range.
WhatsInItForMe,What would Jimmer's numbers look like had he played
for Kentucky? How would Knight's numbers look if he played for Dave Rose and
was allowed 21 shots from anywhere on the court he liked? Kentucky gets the
cream of the crop athletes year after year. Trust me, Knight will be drafted
higher than Jimmer and will have a more successful career in the NBA.As a long time season ticket holder, I hope the Jazz make a deal or two with
their picks and get a proven NBA talent. This is a weak draft and after the
first five or six players, the remaining draft looks like long shots or role
players.If we hold onto our picks, I hope we get Knight with the 3rd
pick and Thompson with the 12 pick.Good luck to Jimmer, I believe he
will be a good off the bench scorer like House. He is a great young man and I
wish him the best.
Winglish: why you ignoring the fact that at that time Kanter's biological age
and that he was bigger and heavier then any his european competition. JV when he
played vs him in those game 2 years ago for 5-6 place was 6'9, 215lbs kid. Put
them against each other now we would see different game. It is funny you
mentioned Kanters 4 blks in 36 min but ignored JV's 4 blk in 26 min in that game
as well. And it was not only game they played vs each other in that
tourney... in groupe stage where LT won game JV scored 20 pts in 28 min to
Kanters 22pts in 33min One monster game vs Serbia - nice, Jonas in same
tourney same year had game vs France with 37pts, 19reb and 4blk... ignored that
as well? Plus stats from Euro U18 do not translate to NBA success that
easily... Koufos posted by far the best stats in history of that tourney
averaging 25pts/13reb and 3.5 blk... where he is now? I doubt Kanter will have
better career then him and hope he will be passed by Jazz.
Winglish I just checked stats, why you trying to pump Kanters stats? He scored
32 pts and grabbed 25reb vs Serbia... not 40/27 as you claim. And his team lost.
At the end of the day in that tourney Jonas averaged more points then him, was
shooting better FG, FT and had more blks and that was when he was smaller then
him. Only better stat was Kanters better rebounding average. Case closed.
if we keep our picks our best hopes are jonas & jimmer - but jimmer will not
be there @ 12n- trades need to happen
@ MidMajor4ever,If Knight were to shoot from the exact same places
as often as Jimmer did, his shooting percentage would have been way less. Knight
does NOT have Jimmer's range.If Jimmer had been on a team with
talented scorers like Knight, he would have averaged 6-7 assists (high for
college) and not needed to shoot as much.So, your comparison doesn't
make much sense.BTW, shouldn't you change your handle now that your
Utes are a BCS team?
I got the stats from a Turk newscast. Not "pumping" anything. Might
have been a different game, eh?
I don't remember all this hoopla over Bogut or Miller when they were going to be
drafted. Mark it down, Jimmer won't be half as good as Andre Miller. Ugh. I
can't wait till this is all over and Jimmer turns out to be the next Adam
Winglish... lol so some homecooking by turkish newspaper? All official stats are
available at FIBA web site.
Trade out. Please don't trade down.
The Jazz are always open to trades. Everybody knows that. So for Ford to say
the Jazz are open to trades, even if he names names, that's nothing new. I'm
hoping the Jazz trade their No. 3 pick for an established big man who can clog
the middle, and then they trade up to get Fredette, who is probably the No. 1
game changer in this draft. When O'Connor was asked whether he had Favors as
the No. 3 player in last year's draft, he said, "Higher than that,"
and he smiled. So I think the Jazz had Favors as No. 1 all along. O'Connor was
booed last year for when he picked the steal of the draft at No. 9, a guy who
went on to become Utah's best three-point shooter last year, a fine defender and
an overall excellent player who looks to be a solid contributor for years to
come. I'm hoping O'Connor gets booed again for picking Jimmer because that kid
is something special, and I don't want to have to pay for the NBA package on
cable to watch him.
Those who think Jimmer will turn out to be another Adam Morrison are blinded by
the light reflected by his skin. Jimmer is extremely quick, willing to play any
role, has a killer crossover, can split the double team, loves to drive into
traffic and score in the paint, has ungodly NBA range, has a great attitude, is
an excellent passer, as good a dribbler as any soon-to-be rookie, and has a
step-back move that even the long, quick defenders can't deal with. Morrison
was a good hustler and a pretty fair shooter who had the green light in college.
He probably would play better in the NBA if it weren't for his diabetes. My
prediction: Jimmer will be about like Jason Terry and possibly better. I would
not doubt Jimmer. The kid is a competitor and a winner.
A lot of rumors going around the NBA...Cavs gunning for Gay...does this mean
they'll pick Irving?...they are also high on Jonas V...Kings owners love
fredette...but coaches dont...and it seems coaches won the debate...does this
mean...we would get fredette at 12?...i think wolves and bucks are gunning for a
trade...involving Bogut...im not sure if it involves Love...but i think the
number 2 pick is included...Andre Igoudala to Clippers for Kaman...its going to
be a very active draft night....hope we get some action....