All I can say is, "Wow!" What part of fair, practical and reasonable
don't you get? If all eating establishments followed your advice, we all would
have only fast food choices and Denny's would still be open for special
Maybe I can answer that for you, 1. Since alcohol production produces jobs,
those people keep working 2. By those people working they pay taxes, and feed
their families, because it's called a job. 3. Then those people that work in the
liquor stores, bars or restaurants they sell alcohol, it's produces tax revenue
for the state. Since jobs are hard to come by, you know the economy. These
people pay taxes, it takes money to run things. 4. They need to feed their
families to, if you don't mind if they try to feed their families. Well, maybe
not like you living the life of luxury, But if you want the alcohol stores shut
down, that's fine, I'm sure that the legislators could raise property taxes up
20%, and and another 10% on everything else, like cars, food, electronic's, you
name it, they'll find something to tax.BUT I think the
best thing, if you are Mormon, just stay out of other peoples indulgence, If you
are Mormon, leave your morals and convictions to yourself, and leave their
rights and privileges alone.Practice your religion, that is your
right, and privilege.
More questions:Why does a church (via a puppet legislature) have any
business dictitating what adults are able to consume.Why does a
non-drinker have any business peeping into another's personal drinking
habits?Why don't busy bodies mind their own business?
Are you saying that if a restaurant owner doesn't like it here, they should just
leave? Yeoweee!I thought people here liked free enterprise and less
government influence in business. But this issue proves it ain't so....
Helen, there seems to be a disconnect in your logic. You ask questions that one
would normally expect of a Utah county non-drinker, but when we compare your
opinion with that of the mayor of your fair city, there is conflict. The Mayor
recently pleaded with the Liquor Control Commission not to close the liquor in
Provo as he cited the severe economic harm that would be done to the community
by closing the store. There are only two choices here Helen: 1.
Close the store and all liquor establishments in Utah county and raise your
taxes to compensate for the shortfall. 2. Let the status quo remain just that
and you go back to your knitting.
Helen,Your comments suggest that you live in an insular world and don't
have many conversations with people outside your religion. Otherwise the
answers to several of your questions would be clear.Excellent
questions, RanchHand, here are a few more:1. What gives you the
right to force your religious views upon anyone?2. Do you understand
that most adults responsibly consume alcohol?3. Would you support
religious edicts passed down through government if they came from another
religion? If not, can you now understand why many residents of Utah tire of
this? 4. Do you understand that Utah is becoming a more diverse
place, and that eventually it will be difficult to keep these theocratic laws on
To "RanchHand | 6:20 a.m." does the same church that you claim runs
Utah also run the 17 other states that have equal or more strict liquor laws?
I'm a lifelong, sixth-generation resident of Utah. I'm not a member of any
religion. I want to be able to go out with a few of my friends, to a local
restaurant or pub, sit around a table, and order the same beverage options I can
get in Boise, Denver, Jackson, Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, and yes, Reno or Las
Vegas. I would like to buy a bottle of wine at the grocery store, or Costco,
like I can in every state surrounding Utah. I'd like to feel like I'm not being
forced to live under somebody else's religious-based morality every time I feel
like going out somewhere with a few friends. I'd like to walk into a bar
without having my ID scanned into a state database. This attitude
of "This is our state and you'll live by our rules", which is held by
many in the cultural majority of Utah, will eventually be what causes me to
leave this state. There is no room, or acceptance, for anybody who thinks or
RedShirt said: " does the same church that you claim runs Utah also run the
17 other states that have equal or more strict liquor laws?Different
churches... same "religious zealots."
No one is willing to list the "cost" of liquor consumption to the
State. They cite the "profits" made by selling liquor, but they
ignore the welfare payments made because of liquor. They ignore the lost tax
revenue when people loose their jobs because of liquor. The ignore the costs to
feed and clothe and house broken families because of liquor.If the
numbers were published, I'm sure that we would all see that the State pays out
much more to pay for the results of drinking than it receives in profits from
the sale of liquor.Last year the State levied a tax on tobacco,
listing as the reason the high cost to the State of medical and welfare costs
that result from smoking.Perhaps it's time that the State did the
same for all forms of alcohol. Let those who consume it pay all associated
costs related to it.
botdriver, "I think the best thing, if you are Mormon, just stay out
of other peoples indulgence, If you are Mormon, leave your morals and
convictions to yourself, and leave their rights and privileges alone."Does that hold true only for Mormons? Couldn't that also be true for
say........liberals?If you are a liberal, just stay out of other
people's health care. If you are liberal just keep your hands out of other
people's pockets. If you are liberal leave your lack of morals and convictions
to yourself, and leave other people's rights and privileges alone."Also, you didn't factor in the financial benefits of the results of your
beloved alcohol cunsumption. I'm sure that all the money paid for the divorses
and family break-ups caused by alcohol helps the economy. I'm sure that the
money spent at medical facilities due to alcohol consumption also helps the
economy. All that money spent at mortuaries because of alcohol related deaths
must help. I have many friends and loved ones who have suffered
greatly because of alcohol. The latest was a cousin who died from alcohol
poisoning. But, you'll find a way to blame the Mormons for that, too.
@Mike Richards;Do you support an Ice Cream tax and a Soda tax as
well as a Tobacco Tax?These items "cost" every bit as much
to our society as Tobacco does. Honest.
"Let those who consume it pay all associated costs related to it."Sure, raise the taxes on alcohol under this pretense as long as you're
willing to also levy/raise a tax on the following to cover the "negative
social ills" they cause:-Soda and candy-Ice cream-Fast
Food-Families with children that put a strain on the education systemetc etc etcOnce you start taxing "vices" you must tax
pretty much everything under that same logic. And here I thought the people of
this state were AGAINST taxation...
"does the same church that you claim runs Utah also run the 17 other states
that have equal or more strict liquor laws?"Excusing the bad
behavior of one group by pointing out the same bad behavior in other groups is
All I know is that when my wife moved here from Pittsburgh she commented about
two things. One, that she had never seen beer or any alcohol for sale in stores.
The other was that everyone drives too fast here in Utah. Pittsburgh
has very low death by automobile accident rates, Utah also has low rates. One
other thing about Pittsburgh, besides that life is more important than tourist
dollars, is that people can't blame EVERYTHING on the Mormons. It's much easier
to get things done without all the anti-religious bigotry.
To BSU,Did you marry an amish girl?
"It's much easier to get things done without all the anti-religious
bigotry."Huh? About 2/3 of the population is LDS. The state
legislature is 90% LDS and something like 75% Republican. If you are
conservative, it is one of the easiest states to get something done because you
can just steamroll any opposition.
Rand | 11:32 a.m. June 17, 2011 FLAGSTAFF, AZ "It's much easier
to get things done without all the anti-religious bigotry."Huh?
About 2/3 of the population is LDS. The state legislature is 90% LDS and
something like 75% Republican. If you are conservative, it is one of the easiest
states to get something done because you can just steamroll any opposition. ========== It's actually about 60% - with less than half of
that being "Active".But your percentages in regards to the State
Legislature is correct.It's a perfect example of any other
Totalitarian State - when the minority controls the majority.
Hey, umm Al is it, I hope you can understand this and well, I am not much of a
drinker, maybe every so often, every couple of months I'll by a 12 pack of Coors
3.2% soda pop, because that's what it is to me, but I will indulge you. The
reason I hammer on the Mormon faith is that 57% of Utah is Mormon, and the
MAJORITY of legislators are MORMON, I have no representation here, but I must do
with what I have, but I as a infidel, since I have no care to go to church,
because I don't need him as a crutch, do not believe in infringing on any
peoples rights, like you and the rest of the Mormon's in this state like to do.
Since you like the communist lifestyle, why don't you move to China, then you
can wish you could practice your religion, because you can't it's illegal, so
since this is the United States you have the privilege to pray, and those who
drink have the privilege to drink. Oh, and thank your veterans, like me who
served to keep that right.
To "botdriver | 12:20 p.m." so what you are saying is that the
majority should give up their representation and bow to the desires of the
minority.I don't know about you, but whenever I hear about the the
majority having to do what the minority wants, it never ends well for the
minority.Last I checked we area a representative democracy, which
means that the majority does in fact rule.If you don't loke it in
Utah, there is nothing forcing you to stay here. If you don't like the laws,
there is nothing preventing you from running for office and working to change
the laws yourself.
Facts - Utah deaths due to Perscriptions Drugs = 435 per year. While Drunk
driving runs about 37 per year. One is specifically listed in the Word of Wisdom
given in 1833, but the far more dangerous one is not.Modern
medicines and Cell phones and texting weren't around in 1833 - but they are FAR
more deadly than alcohol.The Utah State legislature reminds me of
the Pharisees, who want everyone's strict adhereance to the Letter of the law,
while ignoring the spirit of the law.Hypocrites? Yes.And
RedShirt - The "If you don't like it, leave it" arguement is just
plain childish. BTW - If the Majority rules - then Al Gore should have been the
President of the United States.
Re: "Cell phones and texting . . . are FAR more deadly than
alcohol."First off, that's a demonstrably false statement.Second, why do liberals believe it's OK to control my cell phone use,
but not my alcohol use?To quote -- "Hypocrites? Yes"
To "LDS Liberal | 1:51 p.m." Al Gore would have one if we were a
democracy. However, we are a republic, which means that the US is more like 50
small countries that are joined together. Al Gore had to win the election in
each of the 50 states.That is the result of a representative
It almost makes me want to give up. You ask a supporter of the laws what the
laws specifically do and they have no clue. They support something they know
absolutely nothing about.There is not one person that is willing to
give specific examples as to how these laws make this a safer place. All they do
is say that they can pass the laws and neener neener neener to you... That is
the height of ignorant arrogance. It is the same attitude slave owners had.
procuradorfiscal,"Second, why do liberals believe it's OK to
control my cell phone use, but not my alcohol use?"Bad logic.
Control of dangerous alcohol use is already in effect and supported by nearly
everyone. Its called DUI and public intoxication laws. No one wants to ban your
phone outright, which is what Utah liquor laws are dancing around.
Just because the 21st amendment allows for sale of alcohol doesn't mean it can't
be regulated properly to make sure it goes into the right hands and is
safe....wait a minute...Just because the 2nd amendment allows for
gun ownership doesn't mean it can't be regulated properly to make sure they go
into the right hands and is safe.
"Facts - Utah deaths due to Perscriptions Drugs = 435 per year. While Drunk
driving runs about 37 per year. One is specifically listed in the Word of Wisdom
given in 1833, but the far more dangerous one is not."One is
people getting themselves killed, the other can involve killing other people.
That's a key difference."Modern medicines and Cell phones and
texting weren't around in 1833 - but they are FAR more deadly than
alcohol."In a vehicle maybe (I don't know the stats) but
alcohol is way deadlier overall.
I think what non drinkers do not understand some of the these laws are just
plain stupid. What is the point of the of a Zion curtain really? It
isn't about limiting consumption it is about control. If a legislator is getting
complaints from parents about their kids seeing drinks being mixed then they
should tell them not to patronize the business any more. If a business is losing
customers then they will adapt if they want to survive.Why should a
government tell a restaurant that seventy percent of its sales must come from
food and only thirty percent comes from alcohol? Would you like it if you owned
a business and the government told you can only sell so much of your product?
Well City Creek Mall (a church owning a mall?!) have any business that serves
@atl134Prescription drugs vs Alcohol...."One is people getting
themselves killed, the other can involve killing other people.Prescription drug use also involves killing other people. Most prescription
drugs that are being abused have warning labels that say something like
this....Don't Drive or Operated Heavy Machinery While Using This Medication.
Don't Mix with Alcohol.According to the 2006 Nation Survey on Drug
Use and Health, an estimated 10.2 million people admit to driving under the
influence of drugs. It is important that car accidents caused by drugged driving
due to not only illegal substances but prescription and non-prescription
over-the-counter medications are stopped and that the dangers of this kind of
DUI are taken seriously.Prescription Drugs are capable of killing
other people....so atl134....you are wrong.Also....University of
Utah psychologists have published a study showing that motorists who talk on
handheld or hands-free cellular phones are as impaired as drunken drivers. June
29, 2006Also....RAC Foundation director Stephen Glaister said the
research "clearly shows that a motorist who is texting is significantly
more impaired than a motorist at the legal limit for alcohol."Perhaps you should not perpetuate false assumptions!
Alabama has 6 "dry" counties.About half of Arkansas
counties are "dry".Connecticut has 1 "dry" town
in the state.Florida has 5 "dry" counties".Kansas has 29 counties that prohibit the sale of liquor by the drink.Kentucky as 43 "dry" counties.Massachusetts has 13
"dry" towns.Nevada has 1 "dry" city.New Jersey has at least 8 "dry" cities.New York has 10
"dry" cities.North Carolina has 1 "dry"
county.Texas has 26 "dry" counties.Utah has NO
"dry" counties and NO "dry" cities, yet people complain
because they can't buy liquor at the corner market. People try to
tell us that because people using cell phone have caused accidents and that
because the misuse of prescriptions have cause fatalities, that alcohol should
be allowed. What kind of nonsense is that? Every person who drinks water will
eventually die. Should we ban the drinking of water? I'm thinking
that too many of the posters first tried the "beverage" before writing
and that the "beverage" impaired their ability to think.
Mike Richards | 5:01 p.m. June 19, 2011 South Jordan, UtahAnd
the net result of these dry counties and onerous laws is???