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Readers' forum: Alcohol and gambling

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  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    June 16, 2011 7:13 a.m.

    It is hypocritical to claim that something is sinful and immoral and to then make a profit off it.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    June 16, 2011 8:14 a.m.

    Alcohol is the most dangerous drug in America today, worse than heroin or cocaine as it not only is bad for the person, but DUI's kill the innocent. I see no reason to make it easier to get. If this loses tourists fine.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2011 8:47 a.m.

    Without gambling, Utah's Indians have conisdered storing nuclear waste on their reservations as a way of making money. How ironic that Utah's straight and narrow gambling policy puts the health of her citizens at risk.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 16, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    What in Tucket? | 8:14 a.m. June 16, 2011
    Provo, UT
    Alcohol is the most dangerous drug in America today, worse than heroin or cocaine as it not only is bad for the person, but DUI's kill the innocent. I see no reason to make it easier to get. If this loses tourists fine.

    ==============

    No it isn't.

    Perscription Drugs kill more than all illegal drugs, Drunk driving and ALL regular traffic accidents combined.

    But unlike Diet Coke, perscription drugs are not on the Word of Wisdom list so everything is OK.

    It's all about control & taking away Freedom.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 16, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    "Without gambling, Utah's Indians have conisdered storing nuclear waste on their reservations as a way of making money. How ironic that Utah's straight and narrow gambling policy puts the health of her citizens at risk."

    You cant be serious......

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 16, 2011 11:40 a.m.

    Freedom? How is Utah curtailing freedom by having State Liquor Stores? Any adult in Utah can go to any liquor store and buy whatever he wants.

    Do you mean freedom to buy anything anywhere? That does not work, and not just for alcohol. There are zoning regulations everywhere that limit what kinds of businesses can occupy which part of town. Have you ever wondered why all the fast food restaurants are crowded together or the retail stores or the manufacturing establishments? Does that mean that we have no freedom? Where's the outcry telling us that the State is taking away our freedom to put a business anywhere we want, after all, it's our property?

    Reasonable people believe in reasonable regulation.

    Alcohol is a substance that needs to be regulated. 22% of all auto fatalities in Utah are alcohol related. Phillip-Howard reports that 67% of 14 year old girls drink and 63% of 14 year old boys drink.

    Having the "freedom" to buy alcohol on every street corner is not responsible. If you need a drink so badly that driving to a Liquor Store causes grief, it might be better to spend your time at an AA meeting.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 16, 2011 11:46 a.m.

    Why is government in the business of selling alcohol in the first place? Shouldn't that be left to the private sector?

    Thomas Jefferson is rolling in is grave right now with the way our legislature acts like Communists with the booze.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 16, 2011 1:22 p.m.

    Mike Richards | 11:40 a.m. June 16, 2011
    South Jordan, Utah
    Freedom? How is Utah curtailing freedom by having State Liquor Stores?

    ===========

    Make up your mind.

    Do you want smaller, less intrusive Government or not.
    Aren't you the one daily ranting about the ineffectiveness of Government, and how the Private sector and Free Market Capitalism should be left alone?!

    Your waffling and 2-sidedness is pure hypocrasy.
    Show some integrity.

    Which is it?

    Freedom, or Not?

    FYI - I choose Freedom. Christ's plan. And all the Social ills that may come along with it. You seem to insist on everyone living Forced, sinless lives. That was Lucifer's plan.

    Again, I ask - who's side are you on?

  • Murray Dad Murray, UT
    June 16, 2011 1:37 p.m.

    Freedom?
    What about the revered "Invisible Hand of the Free Market"?

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2011 3:22 p.m.

    If Mike R. thinks it is fine for Government to have a monopoly on liquor in Utah, I am sure that he will use the Constitution to back up his opinion. Ok, Mike we know from many examples that you assert daily if it isn't in the Constitution then Government has no business in the business! Where would you cite to justify such a stance? Or do we have to read the footnotes of the Federalist Papers (or the Pentagon Papers) to find the justification?

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 16, 2011 3:38 p.m.

    LDS Liberal,

    Your freedom to buy alcohol from your corner market neighbor ends when it impacts teenagers.

    Don't for one minute claim that Christ wants you to have the freedom to drink and drive, to buy alcohol for your teenage friends, or to act offended when laws are passed to protect us from you.

    You claim that all laws passed by our representatives are to be obeyed. So why are you opposing a law that requires you to buy liquor from an authorized State Liquor Store?

    Are you picking and choosing which laws you NEED to obey? In Utah, the LAW requires YOU to buy your liquor from a State Liquor Store.

    Christ's plan does not include selling alcohol to minors. It does not give you the right to destroy someone else's life so that you can buy liquor.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 16, 2011 3:49 p.m.

    Grover,

    You can read the liquor laws for yourself. The FEDERAL Government is restrained or restricted by the Constitution. Everything that is not explicitly enumerated in the Constitution is left to the States or to the people.

    The Utah Code, Title 32, Chapter 12 contains the laws that govern liquor sales in Utah.

    Read the code.

    It is legal. It is lawful. It is Constitutional.

  • dave Park City, UT
    June 16, 2011 4:10 p.m.

    Mike Richards | 3:49 p.m. June 16, 2011

    "It is legal. It is lawful. It is Constitutional." - But, it it right? My answer is no.

    I have asked you numerous times to show ONE specific example of how these onerous laws make anyone safe. You have never given any specific examples but tossed out anecdotal stories.

    Please enlighten us. If you can't, I recommend that you actually think about your position using fact, not hype.

  • eric leetham SACRAMENTO, CA
    June 16, 2011 4:22 p.m.

    only way alcohol can be dangerous is someone abuse it by drinking to just get drunk but any drugs can be dangerous in are body. even if you try to od on over the counter drugs can cause some kind impairment if your trying to drive. gambling can be addictive if the person has a weak mind who can't control his or her habit...it's up to that person to know when to say when and when it's enough to stop...im a person who did but i can talk about because i was strong enough to stop everything ...i don't gamble anymore but if i were to visit vegas i would have a budget once i spend that budget that is it...because there is more things to do in vegas or any other states that has gambling to have a good time...same with drinking i can buy a bottle of booze and not half to drink it all just in 1-2 days...now i can let it sit for awhole year and not touch a drop...so all this stuff saying it's a sin just saying your weak in the head.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 16, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    @ Dave,

    You seem to think that you can "demand" an answer. You have no such right.

    You seem to think that someone has to prove to you how YOU will be benefited by a law before you accept it. Is that what America means to you? Do you have to personally find a reason to think that laws are not "onerous" before you'll accept the fact that you live in a State that has the total right to control the distribution of alcohol?

    Do you or one of your family have to be hit by a drunk driver before you understand why the State regulates alcohol? Do you or someone you love have to lose his job or his marriage because of alcohol before you understand why the State regulates alcohol?

    The State has to pick up the pieces and pay enormous amounts of money in welfare when people can't hold their liquor. You want freedom to drink as you please. Well, that's too bad. We live in a society where laws exist. In Utah, one of the laws is that if you want to buy liquor, you have to buy it from a State Liquor Store.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    June 16, 2011 5:34 p.m.

    As long as tobacco is available in Utah nobody has an argument to make against liquor or gambling. Nobody.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 16, 2011 6:12 p.m.

    Mike Richards | 3:38 p.m.
    LDS Liberal,

    Your freedom to buy alcohol from your corner market neighbor ends when it impacts teenagers.

    ==============

    1. I choose NOT to drink -- I'm as LDS as you are.
    2. There already are laws about selling to minors and supplying or giving alcohol to minors.

    You just want more and more and more laws = meaning more and more Government and less and less Freedom.
    Which is exactly the opposite of what you CLAIM you stand for.

    -------------

    "My Turn on Earth"

    (Jesus)
    I can not promise you the same,
    It's true that if you follow me,
    there will be dangers, difficulties,
    perhaps even wars and bloodshed,
    For you will be free to choose them if you wish.

    I cannot do everything for you,
    No one can - No one should,
    For the most precious gift we have been given next to life itself,
    is the power to direct that life.

    We must have the oppourtunity to choose,
    And there must be the possibility of wrong choices.
    To discover the powers that are within us,
    And not look continuely to someone else.

    To use our own Free Agency,
    This is growth - and Growth must be.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    June 16, 2011 8:49 p.m.

    LDS Lib: you claim you want freedom and liberty but you refuse to let me dictate how I want to spend my earned money. You want the government to confiscate it and use it for what you deem worthy.

    If you are for freedom and liberty and personal responsibility then you will be for reduced taxes, cut federal entitlement spending, not sending money to foreign countries and allowing me to keep my earned income without calling me names.

    But, we know who you really are. Funny that you use a song from My Turn on Earth to try to prove a point.

    Should I use Zero Population to ridicule your silly positions and complete lack of understanding of the gospel you claim to know?

    So with your Free Agency and choosing equals growth song I'm also going to take it that you are for getting rid of all laws and law enforcement. After all, we have no personal growth if we are restricted in any way.

    Are you really for free agency or just on your terms?

  • L White Springville, UT
    June 16, 2011 9:06 p.m.

    Well, Mr. LDS Liberal, I know that I can't remember everything that everyone writes, but I do remember very well when you stood up for abortion because it was the law of the land. You didn't claim that anyone should have an abortion, but you demanded that we respect the law of the land.

    What has changed since then? Don't Utah laws count?

    Anybody who is old enough can drink himself silly. Utah allows people to drink. They only control the distribution. That is the law. Don't you think we should obey the law?

    If we do not obey this law, then just where is the list of laws that you approve of?

  • dave Park City, UT
    June 16, 2011 9:33 p.m.

    Mike Richards | 4:39 p.m. June 16, 2011
    South Jordan, Utah

    You cannot show how any of these regulations do anything but annoy people. They are nothing more than wallpaper that serves no practical purpose.

    Why do you support do-nothing regulation? It is immoral and unjustifiable to support and pass such legislation.

  • eric leetham SACRAMENTO, CA
    June 17, 2011 1:37 a.m.

    what is wrong having alcohol just be sold in near by grocery stores most grocery stores cloesd at 10 or 11pm all the state has to enforce the time when people can buy it maybe like from 10am to 11pm in grocery stores and the state liquor stores if they were to go private then they can set there own stores hrs...the sales tax will still goes towards the school lunch program like always and its a win win situation...if folks want to gamble instead of driving to nv. maybe the state can used hotel tax money for other state needs road work,fire department,police etc. as much a lot of folks don't want this in there nanny state of utah things need to change because every corner the gov is cutting money and trying to reduce the resource in the state of utah. it will created more jobs it wont solve everything but it's a start. you got to look at the big picture about everything not everything is picture perfect either we just got to accept it as well

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 17, 2011 8:19 a.m.

    @Charles | 8:49 p.m. June 16, 2011
    The Greater Outdoors, UT
    LDS Lib: you claim you want freedom and liberty but you refuse to let me dictate how I want to spend my earned money. You want the government to confiscate it and use it for what you deem worthy.

    [No, You are completely Free to go live in a cabin, and not pay one penny in taxes. If you want services and live in our modern Society - then pony up with everyone else.

    FYI - Zero population was "Saturday's Warrior".]

    ====================

    L White | 9:06 p.m. June 16, 2011
    Springville, UT
    Well, Mr. LDS Liberal, I know that I can't remember everything that everyone writes, but I do remember very well when you stood up for abortion because it was the law of the land.

    [I am not pro-abortion, but pro-choice...big differnece. Free Agency. Following Jesus's plan.]

  • L White Springville, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:00 a.m.

    Mr. LDS Liberal,

    You wrote that you are following Jesus's plan. Do you think that Jesus is Pro-Choice (abortion)? Do you think that Jesus is pro-alcohol and pro-gambling?

    Why do we have laws? Do the legislatures make a list of things that will irritate the public and then pass laws to make our lives miserable? I think that some very wise men and women looked at the problems that we have in this State and passed laws to protect the public from people who are irresponsible.

    We all accept the fact that we have speed limits. How many people write letters to the editor demanding that they be allowed to drive eighty-miles-an-hour through an empty school zone?

    To me, that is exactly what you and Dave and other posters are saying about buying alcohol. You want to be free to do the equivalent of driving eigthy-miles-an-hour through an empty school zone because you think some laws are too "tight" for your tastes.

    Old ladies like me are grateful for our alcohol and gambling laws. Old ladies like me love our 'children', even our 'foolish children'.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    Mike Richards | 3:38 p.m. June 16, 2011
    South Jordan, Utah
    LDS Liberal,

    Your freedom to buy alcohol from your corner market neighbor ends when it impacts teenagers.

    ---

    Cell phones are FAR WORSE THAN DRUNK DRIVERS - because EVERYONE is doing it. We are going to see many more cell phone driving related deaths because our government doesn't want to "restrict freedoms" when it comes to phones, yet they are perfectly willing to restrict freedoms when it comes to alcohol.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    L White | 9:00 a.m. June 17, 2011
    Springville, UT
    Mr. LDS Liberal,

    "...Do you think that Jesus is pro-alcohol ..."

    ---

    Absolutely!!!

    Jesus drank alcohol (not just "grape juice").

    D'oh!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    June 17, 2011 5:21 p.m.

    I'm kind of torn on this one. As long as Utah laws are so churchy, my transportation business makes money.