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BYU, Notre Dame have similarities, differences

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  • FL Cougar PENSACOLA, FL
    June 11, 2011 10:22 p.m.

    I'm hoping for a great season in 2011. The possibilities are there for the Cougars to break out and have the kind of season that establishes them as a national, not just regional, football powerhouse. Tradition comes from success, and it looks like the Cougars are well-positioned in the coming years to build on their great tradition.

  • BYU Deek Spanish Fork, UT
    June 11, 2011 10:47 p.m.

    Every time conference expansion talk heats up we always hear about the possibility of Notre Dame joining a conference. They always remain an independent though, simply because of the rivalries they have built up with teams like Stanford, USC, Navy, Michigan. . . these are games that Notre Dame wants to play every year, and a conference would kill those rivalries. . . kind of like how the PAC 10+2 is trying to kill the Holy War. Well, if BYU comes out and has a great season, turns heads and kicks some tail: all we'll hear about is how great a move independence was and the team up on the hill will be forgotten. They will fall into the "In other news..." category of Sportscenter.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 11, 2011 11:02 p.m.

    I hope the six games with Notre Dame leads to an annual rivalry afterward, played late in the season. If both schools have strong records, viewership will be off the charts. It can become the new Holy War.

    With Army and Navy as independents, I'm wondering why Air Force doesn't pursue that course also. If it works for Army and Navy, it should work for Air Force. Of all the teams in the MWC, I'd like to see the game between BYU and Air Force become a regular event.

  • T-spoon West Jordan, UT
    June 11, 2011 11:06 p.m.

    Very few teams in the nation can make independence work. So far, so good for BYU.

    Although the cougars don't have an auto-bid like Notre Dame, the criteria for the team to make it to a BCS bowl is basically the same as it was when BYU was in the MWC. With much better exposure and significantly more TV money, Independence is a no-brainer compared to the MWC. I also like the fact that BYU is in the position to accept an invite to a BCS conference more easily in the event such an invite comes in the future.

    Either way the future is bright for the Cougs! I'm excited for the season to start!

  • Veracity Morgan, UT
    June 11, 2011 11:12 p.m.

    Notre Dame didn't become Notre Dame overnight, it took many years and games...BYU will not take as long, but it won't be overnight growth as well...but be sure, they will become a house hold name and a larger national following.

  • Cougar Claws Lindon, UT
    June 11, 2011 11:25 p.m.

    BYU's history might pale in comparison to Notre Dame, but so does just about EVERY program in the country. No one has the same history as Notre Dame. I'll admit even Army and Navy probably have more history than BYU. But right now is right now. BYU has a chance to do special things this year and add to their legacy and history that is still greater than most division 1 programs in the country.

    Go Cougs!

  • Tommy2Shoes Lehi, UT
    June 12, 2011 12:23 a.m.

    When Hollywood starts making great movies about the BYU football team you'll know we're inching closer to ND. Until then we can Fredette about it. No harm in dreaming.

  • manaen Buena Park, CA
    June 12, 2011 12:55 a.m.

    OK, from now on, tbe (team back east) is "the BYU of the East."

  • JustGordon Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 12, 2011 6:29 a.m.

    I love the headline for the story, "BYU , Norte Dame have similarities, differences"! Next we will be told that water is wet and Hamlet is the chief character in Shakespeare's play by that title.

  • Laser Iowa City, IA
    June 12, 2011 6:47 a.m.

    I'm excited for games with ND. Attending a game there is a true college football experience, the fans are great and the campus becomes the center of the game day experience. It is awesome. The future games are going to be awesome.

  • GACougar Atlanta, GA
    June 12, 2011 7:54 a.m.

    I am very pleased with BYU's move to independence. While some may wish they were in the PAC-10.2, I do not. And I'm not even sure that I want them in the Big-12 should that become an option. I like independence. I like the idea of playing all over the country and playing different teams each year. Could BYU make more money in a BCS conference? Probably, but so what? That means nothing to me. Independence is bringing in enough money to run a very successful program and that is all that matters.

    Some of BYU's critics make fun of this years schedule but I think Holmoe has done an outstanding job putting it together so quickly. Every reasonably intelligent person knew it would take a few years to get the schedules put together. Based on what has been revealed so far I am confident that future schedules will be very good.

    Now the only thing that really matters is winning. If BYU wins then this move to independence will be seen as a brilliant move. If they don't win then It will become very ugly.

    Go Cougars!

  • Ldsfan South Jordan, UT
    June 12, 2011 8:37 a.m.

    Biggest difference is that most Catholics in U.S. see Notre Dame as their team. There are over 68 million catholic members in the U.S. compared to 5.1 million LDS members. If 40% of of membership cheer for their religion, Catholics have more than 24 million fans than BYU. That is why they are not equal.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    June 12, 2011 8:39 a.m.

    The movie airplane had something that rhymed. Were it said win one for the zip. That would be a good rivalry.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 12, 2011 8:39 a.m.

    BYU has similarities with Notre Dame the same way Pee-wee Herman has similarities with John Wayne.

  • JustGordon Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 12, 2011 9:00 a.m.

    I am a Catholic, I went to Catholic schools and I think it is inaccurate to say that most Catholics in the U.S. see Notre Dame as their team.

    Catholics see the Catholic universities they went to and which are in their area as "their schools":: the Boston College's, Villanova's, Georgetown's, Marquette's, St. John's, Portland U's, Seattle U's, Marymounts, Santa Clara's.etc.

    I can assure you that Catholics graduating from Michigan are NOT Norte Dame fans, nor will they ever be, even if they moved to South Bend!

  • Mountainman56 Alpine, UT
    June 12, 2011 9:04 a.m.

    Howie

    13 people commented on here before you made it on to impress us with your wit and wisdom. What took you so long? As I said on a previous post a couple of days ago, apparently you find your comments to be amusing, the rest of us just find them juvenile.

    I find it interesting that so many anti-BYU types are constantly saying that the 1984 N.C. was so long ago that it's irrelevant. Did any of you notice that Notre Dame only has 1 N.C after 1984 and that was just a few years later in 1988? Everyone knows that the program has been struggling in recent years yet they are still considered to be among the elite of college football. That's what history and a long legacy of success does for you. BYU's history and legacy certainly don't compare with Notre Dame but they do compare favorably with many prominent programs around the country and teams like Utah don't even hold a candle in comparison.

  • Cougar Claws Lindon, UT
    June 12, 2011 9:15 a.m.

    Re: Howard S.

    Funny, those are the same similarities that Utah has with most of the Pac-12.

  • onebigdaddy Dillon, CO
    June 12, 2011 10:28 a.m.

    Well Said - this is so very true..

    Ldsfan | 8:37 a.m. June 12, 2011
    South Jordan, UT
    Biggest difference is that most Catholics in U.S. see Notre Dame as their team. There are over 68 million catholic members in the U.S. compared to 5.1 million LDS members. If 40% of of membership cheer for their religion, Catholics have more than 24 million fans than BYU. That is why they are not equal.

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    June 12, 2011 11:56 a.m.

    To Mountain Man 56.

    Nobody believes that notre dame is an elite team but they have more than elite money and sell out every game even in bad years. Their fan base, money and potential are far above 95% of all teams. They will win a nc before BYU. Their independence vs. BYU independence is like night and day.

    If history is what you want, try 54-34 and 4 ties for the Utah Utes. When did history start in Provo? Was that in 1984?

    Are you always looking to be offended? Loosen up.

  • Mountainman56 Alpine, UT
    June 12, 2011 12:56 p.m.

    KamUte

    I'm not always looking to be offended however there are numerous Ute fans constantly commenting on BYU articles who are always looking to be offensive.

    I completely disagree about nobody believing that Notre Dame is an elite team. If they weren't, they wouldn't be the only program in the country with their own network TV contract. You're evaluation of who will win a N.C. first is simply your Ute bias. Obviously no one knows that but based on the current status of the two programs, I'd put my money on BYU.

    You asked if history started in 1984 at BYU and the answer to that is no, it started in 1972 when Lavell Edwards became the head coach. Everyone who knows anything about BYU football, knows that prior to Lavell becoming head coach, very little emphasis was place on football at BYU and being nationally competitive was inconceivable. However, for almost 40 years now, BYU has been a nationally prominent football program. Congratulations to the Utes because you joined those ranks over the last decade. You only have 30 more years to go to equal BYU's current status.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 12, 2011 1:45 p.m.

    @ldsfan

    "Biggest difference is that most Catholics in U.S. see Notre Dame as their team. There are over 68 million catholic members in the U.S. compared to 5.1 million LDS members. If 40% of of membership cheer for their religion, Catholics have more than 24 million fans than BYU. That is why they are not equal"

    And yet percentage wise BYU's fanbase in comparison to utahs is much larger than the percentage of Notre Dames to BYU. That is why BYU and utah are not equal and why utah is dependent on riding the coattails of true national progams whereas BYU can succeed without the charity of anyone else.

    That is why they are nowhere close to equal.

  • '90Cougar Hampstead, NC
    June 12, 2011 1:45 p.m.

    I can't help but chuckle when I read "I really like independence" comments from BYU fans. The Cougars haven't played a single game yet as an independent, so everything is speculative at this point.

    I hope BYU does well as an independent, and I expect they will. But BYU fans saying "I like independence" is sorta like saying "I really like being married" one week after saying "I do."

  • Honor Code Denver, Colorado
    June 12, 2011 2:20 p.m.

    BYU having 6 games scheduled with ND do have some similarities, only ND will prevail 6 - 0 and there's no similarities there!!!

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2011 3:46 p.m.

    I think such an article unleashes many myths amongst the BYU does everything right kool-aid drinkers as well as those that absolutely hate BYU and wish Provo would turn into Rexburg with respects to college athletics. First of all BYU grew fast enough during the 1950s and 60s that they now have a huge base of living alumni that numbers close to 400,000, and given they have historically attracted a larger alumni base outside the state of Utah gives them a larger regional or national appeal than Utah has, but it isnt that much bigger and both schools need league alignments to survive. Notre Dame grew as an independent largely due to an accident in league alignment over a century ago. While BYUs choice to go independent isnt that much different today, scheduling and alignment politics are much more stringent and if BYU wants to survive, they must eventually find a league like the Big-12 or face the prospect of scaling back or possibly even eliminating intercollegiate athletics before the end of the decade. Interleague scheduling rules now prevent building the rivalries Notre Dame built a century ago for BYU now.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    June 12, 2011 3:52 p.m.

    "If history is what you want, try 54-34 and 4 ties for the Utah Utes. When did history start in Provo? Was that in 1984?"

    KamUte,

    Do you realize that in the first 50 games or so, more than 30 of those games were in Salt Lake? And do you realize that ever since the home/away ratio has been split even (since 1972 there were 39 games-- 20 in SLC, 19 in Provo), BYU has gone 26-13 against Utah?

    Go ahead and try and spin that. I dare you. 26-13 is not pretty. BYU fans can claim that Utah's early advantage came by a massive home-field advantage (which is evident here) and the fact that BYU didn't really have much of a football team until later (back then, BYU was about as serious about football as the Lakers are serious about good sportsmanship). What argument do Utah fans have now that the playing field has been evened out?

    If you want to consider the overall record as being even remotely indicative of superiorty, how about we make the home/away record even and play the next 22 games in Provo?

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    June 12, 2011 4:47 p.m.

    ND went independent because they can play anyone they want and didn't want to be tied to one conference. BYU went independent because they wanted to make the statement they are available (and then none of the BCS conferences wanted them) and they didn't want to be stuck in the MWC with their TV deal.

    When the conferences re-align, BYU will want to get back in with some bigger schools.

    So they are both independent but for entirely different reasons...

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2011 4:55 p.m.

    @Riverton Cougar & KamUte: The BYU-Utah rivalry was played exclusively in Salt Lake City virtually every year until 1965 when WAC rules required an annual rotation of the game, both schools agreed to a 2 year shuffle from 1972-1975 (BYU winning all 4 of those games). BYU dominated the 1970s and 1980s as the Utah program fell completely into mediocrity, but the last 2 decades it has been a .500 series.
    While the future might be somewhat in doubt with Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott requiring a September meeting for all OOC games except USC or Stanford playing Notre Dame, I sense if Scott has any motive is for BYU to accept a likely forthcoming Big-12 invitation more than destroying the rivalry. Historically the game didnt move until the end of the year until the 1970s anyhow (I still remember an October 28 date in Provo back in 1967). But if the Big-12 does invite BYU sooner I see Scott and his counterpart Dan Beebe in the Big-12 working with ESPN and Fox-Sports to make the rivalry as visible as the SEC/ACC rivalries in Georgia, Florida and South Carolina.

  • COS Littleton, CO
    June 12, 2011 5:04 p.m.

    'Some have mocked the Cougars for being audacious enough to try to brand themselves as "The Notre Dame of the West."'
    Mr. Call, I challenge you to find one quote from a BYU official where they say they want to be the Norte Dame of the West. It may be out there but I couldn't find it. I spent several minutes seaching the internet and found several sources quoting Tom Holmoe saying "We're not Norte Dame", but not one quote that suggests what you said. I assume you have more resources at your disposal than I do. If it is out there you should be able to find it. Surely as a credible journalist you didn't give credit to BYU for saying something that appears to have been said by an SI reporter and then repeated by other journalists so many times that you (journalists as a group) have began to believe it; perpetuating a so called "quote" which has caused some to mock the Cougars.

  • Brettski2024 Concord, CA
    June 12, 2011 6:13 p.m.

    Fail. BYU is not Notre Dame in any way.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    June 12, 2011 6:13 p.m.

    Ute fan here.

    BYU has definitely put themselves in a better position by going independent. While there is no comparison to be made between the history of these two programs (BYU and Notre Dame), I don't see why, based on where they're both at now, you couldn't compare their futures. I would love to see an annual game between these two independents, and could see myself getting behind BYU in those games.

    Based on my one trip to South Bend to see the Utah game a few months ago, I thought Notre Dame had a classy fan base. I was on the 9th row surrounded by green and everyone was very friendly. Wouldn't mind seeing a little rivalry formed between BYU and ND- wish the cougs the best if that happens.

  • Z2010 Brigham City, UT
    June 12, 2011 6:21 p.m.

    A huge difference:

    ND plays a majority of it's games against BCS schools (2011: 10 BCS and 2 non-BCS). If BYU ever goes to the PAC 12 or Big 12 it would greatly improve their status. Getting a BCS conference invite seems unlikely so they better upgrade their scheduling so it is majority BCS.

  • Jeff in Norman NORMAN, OK
    June 12, 2011 6:32 p.m.

    "Then again, almost everything about the Fighting Irish's football history seems hard to believe. In many ways, Notre Dame epitomizes college football.

    You want proof? The College Football Hall of Fame is located not far from the campus in South Bend, Ind."

    Isn't the College Football Hall of Fame moving to Atlanta Georgia because attendance is low? So what does this really say about how Notre Dame epitomizes college football? So is similar or dissimilar to the direction that BYU is going? I don't quite understand this comment as proof?

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 12, 2011 6:47 p.m.

    @Z2010: The Pac-12 will NEVER accept a religious university, BYU included. The Big-12 is the most likely destination for BYU since this independence gig is likely to be very short lived.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 12, 2011 7:06 p.m.

    "Biggest difference is that most Catholics in U.S. see Notre Dame as their team.'

    ldsfan,

    Typical byu fan. Trying to make bYu similar to ND. I live in a predominat Catholic areas of the U.S. I would wager to say 90 percent of all Catholics in Michigan do not root for ND.... it has zero to do with religion.

    For the most part, Catholics don't need a "school" as an identity crutch.

  • Ldsfan South Jordan, UT
    June 12, 2011 7:20 p.m.

    At Duckhunter,

    The article was comparing Notre Dame to BYU as did I. I did not bring up Utah's fan base. With most of this state being lds, I expect many more fans and because BYU is a private, religious school, I expect a large fan base nationwide but for anyone to say BYU has a similar sized fan base is ridiculous.

    To everyone else: 54-34-4. No excuses.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 12, 2011 7:24 p.m.

    "The Pac-12 will NEVER accept a religious university"

    slc bYu fan,

    If ND asked to join the PAC12.....the PAC12 would trip over themselves rolling out the red carpit.

  • softbear Olympia, WA
    June 12, 2011 8:22 p.m.

    Ok we went independent and some think it was a big mistake, but lets take a closer look. Here are some advantages:
    1.own TV contract
    2.Scheduling better teams, ND would not have been a 6 game deal other wise
    3.More exposure
    4.Keep all the bowl money
    5.Better recuriting national due to TV
    6.BCS bowl, possibility

    What a BCS bowl possibility, I must be nuts!! Well, maybe but when you really look at it we have a pretty good chance. In a conference normally only the champion and runner-up may receive a BCS bid, never the 3rd place team etc. All we have to do is qualify by winning 9 games or more and finishing in the TOP 14. That seems alot simpler than winning a conference, especially as some believe our 2nd half schedule is alittle soft. And with ESPN as a partner you can be sure they will be pushing us to one of those bowls or at least something like the Cotton, Gator, Citrus etc. Maybe I've missed something so please inform me!!!

  • Mike Johnson Stafford, VA
    June 12, 2011 8:29 p.m.

    >>>All we have to do is qualify by winning 9 games or more and finishing in the TOP 14.

    That is the rule written for Notre Dame, not for independents in general.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    June 12, 2011 8:42 p.m.

    "A huge difference:

    ND plays a majority of it's games against BCS schools (2011: 10 BCS and 2 non-BCS). If BYU ever goes to the PAC 12 or Big 12 it would greatly improve their status. Getting a BCS conference invite seems unlikely so they better upgrade their scheduling so it is majority BCS."

    BYU is a step ahead of you, and is already in the process of doing exactly that. BYU's future schedules will be mostly BCS teams (if the BCS can hold on that long). As for joining a conference, I don't think Holmoe is planning on doing that, and I'm unsure he'll accept it unless the conditions are very favorable for BYU (more favorable than independence).

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 12, 2011 9:17 p.m.

    Okay my Cougar friends...

    Back from MLM meetings... or as we call them in Utah County on Sundays... Firesides.

    Post-date the checks, deferred delivery of product advances and everything is good.

    Selling the dream has never been sweeter...

    Now for a sad bit of independence reality, my friends...

    During the BCS era, your fellow independents have overall records as follows:

    Army: 35% winning percentage
    Navy: 51% winning percentage
    Notre Dame: 58% winning percentage

    Independence in the modern era a college football has not been kind to your fellow independence-mates.

    With all the resources, broadcast deals, and legacy in the world your model program has less than a 60% record???

    And you think your Cougars will do better as an independent that Notre Dame???

    Wake up and smell the health promoting nutrient juice my friends... independence is going to be a long and rocky road.

  • Captain Caveman Provo, Utah
    June 12, 2011 11:13 p.m.

    YAWN.... Certain Trolls working so hard to convince everyone that BYU is a sinking ship are BORING. They spin the same half-truths over and over in some desperate bid for attention. We all saw that for ourselves on the 2 articles a few days ago about the ESPN deals BYU has in place. I don't even bother reading them anymore. I mean, really, what's the point?!

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    June 12, 2011 11:27 p.m.

    "To everyone else: 54-34-4. No excuses."

    Really? No excuses? That's you're justification? It doesn't matter under what circumstances the record was acquired, all that matters is that it is in the Utes' favor?

    If you want to eliminate all excuses, you're more than welcome to send a letter to Dr. Hill and request that the next 22 BYU-Utah games be scheduled in Provo. Until then, saying "no excuses" is like USC telling the NCAA that they won the 2004 championship no excuses.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 12, 2011 11:47 p.m.

    Hint: The trolls will go away if you ignore them. Don't feed their need for recognition.

    BYU isn't Notre Dame. Shorter football tradition. But that's then, and this is now.

    I believe over the next 10 years, BYU's winning percentage, and number of BCS bowls attended, will outnumber Notre Dame's. BYU is on a faster upswing in its program than is Notre Dame, whose time just might have passed.

    However, those predictions all depend on who the coaches are during that span. Coaching always makes a difference in a program's success.

  • crowntown1 Corona, CA
    June 13, 2011 2:10 a.m.

    Veracity

    Serious??The Notre Dame brand is much bigger than BYU will ever be.Notre Dame has won several National CHampionships and has produced several Heisman's. Notre Dame has a following from many faces of College Football. BYU has only church members that cheer for BYU. THis whole Independent thing will come bqack to haunt you on a National level, that is you can't compete Independently against top talent and win.

  • bigsoccer Syracuse, UT
    June 13, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    crowntown1 | 2:10 a.m. June 13, 2011
    Corona, CA

    Not true that just church members cheer for BYU, I have family that isn't LDS, and they cheer for BYU, I have friends back east who cheer for BYU when they watch them, so hush.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 13, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    To all of the BYU Can Do No Wrong Kool-Aid Drinkers, I might point out that some of the LDS Church leadership (a VERY small minority as Tom Holmoe puts it) does not like the BYU Athletic Department and feels that its mission stifles the development of state institutions most notably Utah State University, and that the missionary aspect of college athletics is best served by sending LDS student athletes to other institutions. This more than anything is why athletics were discontinued up at Rexburg a decade ago.
    While independence currently is a better option than remaining in the MWC, staying independent long term will create other problems since scheduling in this day and age wont work since most BCS leagues require October and November to be reserved exclusively for conference play. Its a safe assumption BYU will accept an invitation to join the Big-12 in 2-3 years once that league works out some internal issues. All it will take is Oklahoma to be undefeated this year and left of the NCG due to no CCG in the Big-12 and an invitation will come very quickly!

  • flintrock Rigby, Id
    June 13, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    Mountaingirl56;

    Thank you for your all consuming knowledge about everything BYU. Can you write a post without using the word Juvenile to complain about Utah comments

    Yes it has been 27 years since BYU won the NC...... Time to get over it.

    Utah 2 BCS invites 2 wins
    BYU 0 BCS invites 0 wins

    BYU is a squirrel with no tail, all squeak and no roar.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    June 13, 2011 11:14 a.m.

    flintrock,
    Talk about being a hypocrite.
    "Can you write a post without using the word Juvenile to complain about Utah comments
    Yes it has been 27 years since BYU won the NC...... Time to get over it.
    Utah 2 BCS invites 2 wins
    BYU 0 BCS invites 0 wins"

    You sound like USU fans with the same broken record comments. That is juvenile! Kids complain and bring up the same old things parents are tired of hearing about. Grow up kid! We're glad you're so proud utah broke into the most corrupt sports organization known to man...twice!

    As far as Notre Dame, BYU is nowhere close to where they've been, but are light years ahead of them right now in terms of success. ND gets top 5 recruiting classes, but with nothing to show for it. BYU isn't even ranked in recruiting, but has consistently ended up in the top 25 for the last few years (minus last year).

  • Old Gregg Alpine, UT
    June 13, 2011 11:45 a.m.

    I say we all make a new rule....the only year that matters is the last year and the one coming up. You get bragging rights for a year, that's it. No more "We won 2 BCS games" and no more "we won a NC in 1984." I think that would eliminate the endless back and forth from both schools. I'm a BYU fan, and yes, I do get tired of the '84 NC card, and "countless other awards( Heisman, etc.) I also get tired of the "2 BCS wins" card. I'm not trying to say these accomplishments from both schools aren't great, or that one is better than the other, but it's getting old. Who ever wins the BYU/UTAH game gets bragging rights for a year, that's it. No more going back 60+ years or pulling out why you think one school is better than the other. Let's just all be proud with the direction each school is going, and call it at that. BYU fans are not going to convince U fans that their program is going in the wrong direction and vice versa. Who's with me?

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 13, 2011 12:42 p.m.

    Old greg, Im with you all the way.

    Utah is coming off a 10-3 season and were ranked in the FINAL polls and beat BYU, and is heading into next season ranked in the preaseason polls, and has a SOS 80+ spots tougher than last year (33 toughest schedule in nation this year). Utah could be in for more losses considering moving up 80+ spots in preaseason SOS.

    BYU is coming off a 7-6 season, and were unranked in the FINAL polls and lost to Utah, and is heading into next season unranked in the preaseason polls, and has a SOS 40+ spots easier than last year (112th toughest schedule in nation this year) BYU could be in for more wins considering moving down 40+ in preaseaon SOS.

    Braging rights after next season:
    Who ever wins the BYU-Utah game,
    Who ever has the higher ranking at the Final Polls
    That's it.

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 13, 2011 12:48 p.m.

    In other words, if you win the Utah-BYU game, have a better record, and end the season ranked, then UTAH has braging rights until Sept 17 2011.

    It was a Utah sweep in 2010: rivlery game, check. Record, check. Ranking, check. Recruiting battle, check.

    Lets argue about the present.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    June 13, 2011 1:09 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar,

    Since the UTES are 6-3 in wins and losses in Provo since 1993, I think that we would have a good chance of going 15-7 in Provo if we played the next 22 games there. No matter where they play, the game is always close. Except for the years the Utes went to BCS games. So set it up with Hill and Holmoe. The Y needs this game more than the Utes do.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 13, 2011 1:27 p.m.

    the similarities: they both are independent private schools

    the differences: ND is an institution in college football that makes it one of the biggest and most noteworthy programs ever. BYU is going to be in decline unless it can find it's way into the BIG 12 soon!!!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 13, 2011 1:32 p.m.

    I usually do not post on any y sites because I frankly do not care about the little brothers of Utah County, but this one was too good to pass up!

    Here is the elephant in the room - the differences can be summed up as follows:

    - Notre Dame = relevant
    - y = irrelevant

    This is evidenced by the fact that the y had to do a 4 and 2 with ND to get a series with them, the first two being played AT ND, and the other 4 ... well ... no one knows when or if the other four will be played.

    Have fun in no mans land! It is indeed great to be a Ute!!

    Oh, and, go Santa Clara!!

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 13, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    @ Papa Smurf UTE,

    Way to rig the stats.

    Let's try comparing apples to apples. Like only the years Bronco and Kyle have been head-to-head.

    Pretty much a toss-up, considering what Kyle and Bronco both inherited.

    And, "forreal people" is correct that the Utes might have the tougher schedule next year, allowing BYU to out-win them overall.

    That makes September 17th all the more fun to look forward to.

    @ VegasUte,

    Glad you DON'T post on BYU articles very often. It was irrelevant!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 13, 2011 2:10 p.m.

    @VegasUte

    Here is Relevancy for U...

    After this next series with Notre Dame, the Mighty Irish will have graced Provo with their presence 4 times.

    In one million years, the most storied program in the History of College Football, would never step foot in RES.

    One and done in South Bend, is all the Utes got with N.D.

    How did that go for your #5 ranked team, and National TV?

    BYU is relevant enough for 8, count them 8 scheduled ESPN broadcasts, so far this year.

    BYU is relevant enough to schedule Home and Homes with Storied Programs, all accross the Land and Neutral site, 2 million dollar games with ESPN as well.

    If no-mans-land is National TV for every game, 8-10 of those on ESPN, with same day re-broadcasts on National BYU-TV, then where does that leave U?

    You just worry about where the Utes can be seen this year, kjzz, kutv or fox regional?

    Be sure to let your "Regional" audience know.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 13, 2011 2:52 p.m.

    everyone knows byu is way better than Noter Dame in history and success and independence is way better than a Rose bowl.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    June 13, 2011 3:39 p.m.

    Bluto,

    By no means is BYU-TV a national station that everyone will be watching the re brodcasts of the Y games. It is an obscure station that not even myself, an active member knows about. It still leaves the U in the Pac 12, with games vs USC, Oregon, etc every year, and sometimes every few years depending on the North division games.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 13, 2011 4:24 p.m.

    @ Papa Smurf UTE (3:39 p.m),

    Of course BYUtv is obscure! Right now, at least.

    That's because nothing of note for a national sports audience has been broadcasted in HD on it yet.

    BYUtv is gearing up for the advent of putting on BYU sports like never before. It'll be quite well known soon enough as BYU's followers learn of its existence.

    It'll even be available on cell phones and iPads, etc. It'll become ubiquitous. No problem.

    BYU's followers include both their own fans, plus fans of other teams who will be wondering who their upcoming BYU opponent is.

    I bet BYU's fan base will expand through BYUtv alone, let alone how many more will become fans from all those ESPN broadcasts.

    You don't have to be LDS or an alma mater to become a BYU fan. And many such as those have, although not so much during the mtn network's dark ages.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    June 13, 2011 5:35 p.m.

    "Utah is coming off a 10-3 season and were ranked in the FINAL polls and beat BYU"

    That's funny. I looked at all the top 25 spots in the AP poll and didn't find the Utes anywhere. So they weren't ranked in the "polls". Maybe one poll (a poll in which Kyle Whittingham has a vote), but not "the polls".

    PapaSmurf Ute,

    So you brought up the fact that while we can replicate one of the advantages Utah had over BYU (many home games), we can't replicate the other advantage Utah had: an opponent that put little effort (if any at all) into having a good football program. Utah is well past that point.

    With that being said, I realize Utah would most certainly not go 0-22, but they would not go 15-7 either. Now that Utah's SOS is up, they can't put as much preparation into the BYU game as they have in games past (where BYU is prepared for in advance). If they tried that this year, USC will roll over them. Part of me says the Utes might think it will be worth it, though.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 7:12 p.m.

    @Bluto

    Off to my MLM meetings or as we call them in Utah County on Monday night FHE

    The close just doesnt get any easier

    "Is there anything in this world these beautiful children dont deserve?"

    "And, is there any investment you wouldnt make to give them the things they deserve?"

    Pure gold I tell ya those questions are pure gold the checkbooks come out faster than an RMs testimony on his first, BYU first date...

    butwhatever

    May I offer little guidance for the esteemed and numerically gifted Mr. Bluto before I head out

    Regarding the privilege of 4 ND appearances at LES, youll have to go to ND eight times for that honor. Not to mention that your current record against the Irish is 2-4. Yeah, Baby where do you sign up for that?

    As for TV appearances... you speak of them as if they were victories in and of themselves.

    Note to Mr. Bluto: No victory has ever been declared because one team has the most TV appearances.

    To be continued moderators willing of course

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 7:17 p.m.

    @Bluto - continued

    And those neutral site games youre so proud of What storied program wouldnt accept an ESPN game against a beatable opponent in their own backyard?

    In fact, it reflects more on the stature of the storied program than BYU.

    Here is how the negotiation went down, my friend

    ESPN to storied program: Would you like to do home and home with BYU?
    Storied Program: BYU home and home? You must be kidding me?
    ESPN: Well no.
    Storied Program: Then no.
    ESPN: Okay, how about if we sweeten the pot by throwing in a so called neutral game within spitting distance of your campus?
    Storied program: Huhhhh that sounds like a two for one.
    ESPN: If you say so
    Storied program: Well then, okay.

    You get the picture, Bluto

    In the immortal words of the famous Mr. Jon Wilner ...the world doesnt always revolve around BYU

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 13, 2011 7:44 p.m.

    BYU is not the Notre Dame of the west, Notre Dame is the BYU of the east.

    Both schools are religious based, both are independent, and both have their own TV contract.

    Utes, how did your visit to Notre Dame go last year? Is Notre Dame ever gonna return the visit to Utah? Nope. Why? Because no one cares about ute football.

    On the other hand, Notre Dame will be visiting Provo twice over the next few years. All 4 of BYU's visits to South Bend will be on NBC. On the other hand, Utah is going to visit USC, and play on Versus!

    ESPN > PAC 12 > Utah

    BYU = King of the mountain
    Utah = little fish in big pond

    Go Cougars!

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 13, 2011 8:02 p.m.

    @flintrock

    "Army: 35% winning percentage
    Navy: 51% winning percentage
    Notre Dame: 58% winning percentage"

    Good thing BYUis not army, or navy, or notre dame! And good thing BYU's winning percentage under Bronco Mendenhal is 73% since taking over as head coach of BYU!

    Also, Bronco has won more games than Kyle Wittingham as a head coach. Just FYI!

    Go Cougars!

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 13, 2011 8:08 p.m.

    @papa smurf ute

    "By no means is BYU-TV a national station that everyone will be watching the re brodcasts of the Y games. It is an obscure station that not even myself, an active member knows about. It still leaves the U in the Pac 12, with games vs USC, Oregon, etc every year"

    1) BYU Tv is available in over 50 million homes in North America, and available for free online to over 1 billion people in the world who have a computer with Internet access, and will soon be available to millions more as an iPad, iPhone, and smart phone app.
    2) What channel is Utah's game against USC on?
    3) How many home games does Utah have on ESPN or ABC or ESPN2?

    Simple math: BYU + ESPN > Utah

    Go Cougars!

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 13, 2011 8:13 p.m.

    @ Howard S

    "ESPN to storied program: Would you like to do home and home with BYU?
    Storied Program: BYU home and home? You must be kidding me?
    ESPN: Well no.
    Storied Program: Then no."

    1) Oregon State
    2) Georgia Tech
    3) Boise State
    4) Hawaii

    All these schools have agreed to home and home games with BYU. 0 Neutral site games.

    Do you like the taste of crow?

    Go Cougars!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 8:20 p.m.

    @Cougar_Independence

    Kyle 58-20, 74%
    Bronc0 56-21, 73%

    Fact: No current independent school has better than a 60% winning percentage in the BCS era of collegiate football era...

    Where Notre Dame, Navy, and Army have failed, BYU will succeed...

    Riiiight...

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 13, 2011 8:30 p.m.

    BYU > Notre Dame > Utah.

    Utah ended 2010 with an embarrassing loss to Boise State. That daunting Utah offense scored a whopping 3 points to Boise's 26. Blow out and embarrassment. Way to end the 2010 season strong Utah!

    BYU won their bowl game, and put up 52 points - a BYU and New Mexico Bowl record. BYU won 4 of it's last 5 games, Utah went 2-3 in it's last 5 games, and both wins came by less than 5 points.

    BYU ended 2010 strong, Utah walked out of Las Vegas in 2010 licking their wounds, with their tail tucked between their legs.

    BYU is ranked 34th in Athlon's 2011 pre-season poll, Utah is ranked 48th.

    BYU has a better record in 2011 than Utah, I'm calling it now!

    Go Cougars!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 8:44 p.m.

    @Cougar_Independence

    Home and homes with BYU?
    Ole Miss - No
    Texas - No
    Notre Dame - No
    TCU - No
    West Va. - No

    Taking confidence in the New Mexico Bowl? Really? I mean... really?

    You don't play Utah State next year do you?

    Utah Home and homes?
    USC - Yes
    Oregon - Yes
    Oregon State - Yes
    Washington - Yes
    Washington St - Yes
    California - Yes
    UCLA - Yes
    Stanford - Yes
    Arizona - Yes
    Arizona St. - Yes
    Colorado - Yes
    Pitt - Yes

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 13, 2011 8:47 p.m.

    @Howard S

    Notre Dame has been to more BCS games than Utah. How are they failing? Notre Dame also has 5 national championships, which is much more than Utah's 0.

    Also, nice math, but you gave Whitt an extra win. 57 wins, compared to BYU's 56. But one thing remains that is a huge thorn in Utah's record under whit: 27-0 loss at UNLV.

    Go Cougars!

  • Mountainman56 Alpine, UT
    June 13, 2011 8:48 p.m.

    flintrock | 9:43 a.m. June 13, 2011
    Rigby, Id
    Mountaingirl56;

    Thank you for your all consuming knowledge about everything BYU. Can you write a post without using the word Juvenile to complain about Utah comments

    BYU is a squirrel with no tail, all squeak and no roar.

    ********

    I have used the word juvenile twice ever on my comments and both times were specifically regarding the juvenile comments of Howard S. However, you fit in very nicely with him with your extremely mature changing of my moniker to Mountain"girl"56 and your ingenious analogy of the squirrel.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 9:05 p.m.

    @Cougar_Independence

    Whit was head coach for the 2004 Fiesta Bowl.

    Count it or not, in any case 57 wins is more than 56 wins for Bronco and I thought someone said Bronco had more wins.

    3 BCS bowl games for Notre Dame, but Utah has 2 more BCS victories than Notre Dame.

    As for Notre Dame success, as an independent in the BCS era they have a winning percentage of 58%.

    Is 58% the level independent success that BYU aspires to?

    Or, does BYU think they will do better as an independent than Notre Dame?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 9:08 p.m.

    @Mountainman56

    So Mountainman56 finds my comments juvenile?

    Funny, that he nonetheless finds my comments worthy of reply...

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 9:25 p.m.

    @Cougar_Independence

    "...a huge thorn in Utah's record under whit: 27-0 loss at UNLV."
    ************

    Bringing up a game more than 3 years ago? Really?

    Okay let's talk about it.

    Since that game Utah has a record of 41-7, or 85% including the Sugar Bowl beat down of Alabama.

    Since that game BYU has a record of 36-11, or 77% including a 31-16 loss to Utah State.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    June 13, 2011 10:08 p.m.

    Howard,

    BYU and Texas have signed a home and home deal. This 2011 game was signed a year ago, and after BYU became independent Texas and BYU signed a home and home. Your credibility goes out the window.

    The Ole Miss and TCU games are filler games to help out somebody who wanted to schedule a quality opponent at the last minute. Trust me, those are the words TCU used when looking for an opponent, and they considered BYU to be a worthy opponent.

    Notice they didn't ask Utah. Has Utah been in talks with TCU, Texas, Ole Miss, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc. about playing future games? You mention the PAC teams as having home and home with Utah in the same manner as BYU/Texas having a deal.

    Trust me, if Utah was still in the MWC they would not be dealing home and homes with USC, Oregon, Stanford, etc. Pitt is the only true home and home you can boast about.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 10:45 p.m.

    @Riverton Cougar

    2 games at Texas and 1 at LES is a 2 for 1 no matter how you try to spin it. Looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's probably a duck.

    Ole Miss and TCU are one and done's on the road regardless of the spin. Neither offered a return trip to Provo did they?

    Utah has perpetual home and homes with some of the most storied schools in college football. They don't need to go looking for short term scraps, leftovers, one and done's and 2 for 1s like BYU is doing.

    Oh, and the reason the Utah is not in MWC is because USC, Oregon, and Stanford chose to invite them for perpetual home and homes.

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    June 13, 2011 11:05 p.m.

    Howard S. vs Reality

    Why Notre Dame and BYU are similar, and Utah isn't:

    National Championships
    Notre Dame - Yes
    BYU - Yes
    Utah - no

    Heisman Trophies
    Notre Dame - Yes
    BYU - Yes
    Utah - no

    Multiple National College Football Hall of Fame Inductees
    Notre Dame - Yes
    BYU - Yes
    Utah - no

    Perennial Top 25 Rankings
    Notre Dame - Yes
    BYU - Yes
    Utah - no

    Exclusive National Network Television Contracts
    Notre Dame - Yes
    BYU - Yes
    Utah - no

    National Fanbases
    Notre Dame - Yes
    BYU - Yes
    Utah - no

    National Cachet
    Notre Dame - Yes
    BYU - Yes
    Utah - no

    Legacy Programs
    Notre Dame - Yes
    BYU - Yes
    Utah - no

    It takes more than a couple of BcS wins to build a legacy program. Yes, U were invited to a BcS conference, so were Louisville, Cinncinnati, and South Florida; Baylor, Indiana, Rutgers, and Washington State have been BcS conference members for years.

    Storied programs like Texas, Notre Dame, Miami, USC, Florida State, and Penn State have been visiting LES since the 80's. Utah settles for one-and-dones at Notre Dame and Michigan because Utah doesn't have the national cachet to get storied programs to visit RES.

    BYU = Independent
    Utah = Dependent on the PAC 12 to get USC to visit RES

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 13, 2011 11:15 p.m.

    Howie

    Ole Miss was scheduled as a favor to BYU's partner, ESPN

    Texas was scheduled as a one-and-done before BYU's ESPN contract

    The home-and-home with Texas was scheduled after BYU announced independence

    Oklahoma, Texas, and West Virgina are all neutral site, made-for-television games

    Notre Dame is 2-for-1, something Utah could only dream of pulling off, since Utah had to settle for 1-and-done just to get Notre Dame to play Utah

    Call us when Utah actually gets one of the true college football elites to play in RES without having to be coerced by the PAC 12.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 11:25 p.m.

    @TrollPolice

    "Howard S. vs Reality"
    *********

    Howard knows reality.

    Notre Dame = Demands 2 for 1s from the likes of BYU

    BYU = Depends on the BCS and ESPN for 1 and dones and 2 for 1s in September. Depends on the MWC and the WAC to fill out the October and November schedule when the big boys are in the midst of conference schedules.

    Utah = As an invited partner, enjoys perpetual home and homes with the elites of college football.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 13, 2011 11:31 p.m.

    Howard the Duck

    BYU has been scheduling home-and-home games with PAC 10 teams for years. BYU even played USC home-and-home during the Crowton era. It's really not a big deal.

    Until Utah is able to get a true elite like Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Michigan, Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Auburn, or Miami to come to RES, you're all talk, but no walk (not even a waddle).

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 11:36 p.m.

    @Ufan

    Neutral site games within spitting distance of the BCS opponent are not neutral, no matter how you spin it.

    BYU needed ESPN pull to pull off the Ole Miss game. Wouldn't have happened otherwise. And on top of that it's a one and one with no return to Provo. I guess it leaves room on the home schedule for San Jose St.

    Keep spinning the Texas 2 for 1. Someone might believe it someday.

    Call when you can get a home and home with a top tier BCS team on your own terms without big brother ESPN calling in favors for you to get it done.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    June 13, 2011 11:38 p.m.

    howard s

    "Notre Dame = Demands 2 for 1s from the likes of BYU"

    Notre Dame = Demands 1 and dones from the likes of Utah

    Utah = Invited cannon fodder and completely ignored by ABC/ESPN

    BYU = Seven ESPN games and counting in just the first year of Independence

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 13, 2011 11:53 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    Look at it this way Snack PAC.

    The BCS elites might invite BYU occasionally for dinner. But they certainly aren't going to invite you to stay the night.

    And besides that, I don't see Oklahoma, Michigan, Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Auburn, or Miami lining up to come to LES even on a 2 for 1 basis.

    Perpetual home and homes are the mainstay of college football. With the BCS limiting non-conference games after September how is BYU going to establish meaningful rivalries as an independent?

    In the BCS era independence has proven to be a failed competitive model. No independent has better than a 60% winning percentage. With all the advantages of Notre Dame they have only a 58% winning percentage.

    How is BYU going to beat Notre Dames record as an independent in the BCS era?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 14, 2011 12:04 a.m.

    @scenic view

    I'd be interested for you the cite a single instance where a college football team was awarded a victory based on the number of televised games.

    Cougars seem to have adopted the idea that a televised game counts in some sort of scoring equation.

    You've still got to win them, my friend. And if you don't win them that coverage will disappear quickly.

    As for Utah, if they win in the PAC there will no shortage of coverage. But if they lose, there will be $30 million reasons to feel comforted.

  • crowntown1 Corona, CA
    June 14, 2011 2:40 a.m.

    Trus me Howard no is scared of playing BYU. Let me remind you when you played FSU at home at got smoked.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 14, 2011 6:35 a.m.

    Howard

    Texas, Florida State, Penn State, and Miami have already visited LES on one-and-ones.

    Utah never has and never will have the national cachet to attract teams like that to RES.

    Elite teams just won't play in cute little stadiums like U have on the hill.

    btw, BYU plays 7 home games this season. That's 20,000 x 6 + 65,000 = 185,000 MORE fans that will be visiting LES. Tickets, plus concessions, plus BYU gear, $1m to $2.5m per game. A fair chunck of change to console BYU while we're beating up on our friends from the hill.

    Enjoy your PAC 12 anonymity!

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    June 14, 2011 12:50 p.m.

    Howard

    I'd be interested for you the cite a single instance where a college football team was awarded a victory based on conference affiliation.

    Utes seem to have adopted the idea that conference affiliation counts in some sort of scoring equation.

    You've still got to win them, my friend. And if you don't win them you'll be joining that "elite" group of major conference bottom feeders like Baylor, Rutgers, Indiana, Washington State, Vanderbilt and Indiana.

    Getting paid big bucks to be a bottom feeder won't comfort Utah fans one bit, especially when Utah fans are being gouged to keep the Utes "competitive" -- 24% increase in ticket prices, 8% increase in student fees... is just the beginning.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    June 14, 2011 1:05 p.m.

    crowntown1

    Let me remind you when you played TCU at home and got smoked.

    Let me remind you when you played Notre Dame on the road and got smoked.

    Let me remind you when you played Boise State in Las Vegas and got smoked.

    Let me remind you that all of that happened in Utah's last 5 games!

  • crowntown1 Corona, CA
    June 14, 2011 1:31 p.m.

    Scenic view

    I wasn't done Then you got the Air Force game then you got the TCU game then Perennial power Utah State!! and finally Nevada.

  • crowntown1 Corona, CA
    June 14, 2011 1:34 p.m.

    Let me remind you scheduling those home games against the big boys of College football and getting ran is nothing to pound your chest about.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    June 14, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    crowntown1

    BYU was a very young team, replacing all of their skill position players, dealing with a failed two-headed QB experiment and a defensive coordinator who quit on the team in Logan.

    What was Utah's excuse for a once Top 5 team getting smoked by TCU, Notre Dame, and Boise State?

    Let me remind you that BYU is 2-0 versus Texas, 2-0 versus Oklahoma, has beaten Notre Dame in Provo and in South Bend, has beaten Penn State in Provo, and has beaten #1-ranked, defending national champion Miami in Provo.

    BYU isn't at all intimidated by the big boys of college football home, away, or at a neutral site.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    June 14, 2011 2:07 p.m.

    "2 games at Texas and 1 at LES is a 2 for 1 no matter how you try to spin it."

    'Keep spinning the Texas 2 for 1. Someone might believe it someday."

    Howard, I must admit that your ignorance is jaw-dropping. This is true IF and ONLY IF the 2 and 1 was the same contract. However, the SECOND contract, signed over a year AFTER the first contract, was a separate and distinct contract. And that contract was a home/away, no matter how you spin it.

    If you had a birthday last year and a birthday this year, can you combine the two and honestly tell people you had no birthdays last year and two birthdays this year?

    Oh yeah, and by the way, since in the next three years the U travels to USC twice and USC travels to Utah once, that's a 2 for 1, right?

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    June 14, 2011 2:12 p.m.

    crowntown1

    Even the "big boys" aren't immune to home losses

    Remember USC(11-2) versus Stanford(4-8) in the Colliseum?

    Final Score
    USC 23 Stanford 24

    Which is worse, losing at Florida State(10-4) 10-34 or losing at UNLV(2-10) 0-27?

  • crowntown1 Corona, CA
    June 14, 2011 2:17 p.m.

    To comment on the story

    Notre Dame has been a proven Winner for years and BYU has not. Notre Dame has produced several Heisman winners and National Championships. If your commenting on here how you think these two programs are the same, you know nothng of college football.

  • Cougars - Wise Older Brothers Anaheim, CA
    June 14, 2011 3:46 p.m.

    crowntown1

    If you can't distinguish between "SIMILAR" and the "SAME", maybe you shouldn't be commenting at all.

    Proven Winner
    Notre Dame - yes
    BYU - yes (since 1972, BYU has won 70.5% of its games)

    Heisman Trophies
    Notre Dame - yes
    BYU - yes (Ty Detmer)

    National Championships
    Notre Dame - yes (last one in 1988)
    BYU - yes (1984)

    Perennial Top 25 Finishes
    Notre Dame - yes
    BYU - yes (17 since 1977, 50%)

    Multiple College Football Hall of Fame Inductees
    Notre Dame - yes
    BYU - yes (6 players, 1 coach)

    National Network Television Contract
    Notre Dame - yes (NBC)
    BYU - yes (8 years with ESPN)

    Private Religious University
    Notre Dame - yes
    BYU - yes

    National Fanbase
    Notre Dame - yes
    BYU - yes (the majority of BYU's students and alumni come from outside Utah)

    Numerous National Individual Awards
    Notre Dame - yes
    BYU - yes (15 including the Heisman)

    Notre Dame aren't the same, but, there are a lot of similarities.

  • bigsoccer Syracuse, UT
    June 14, 2011 4:52 p.m.

    By the way Washington state is not an elite, so enjoy that home and home.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 14, 2011 5:27 p.m.

    @Riverton Cougar

    "...your ignorance is jaw dropping."
    ********
    Insults are the last resort of one who has lost the debate, my friend.

    Let me quote Bronco Mendenhall commenting on the Texas series.

    "From the outside, it could look like a 2-for-1, and in reality, that's what it ends up being" DN August 20, 2010.

    Like I said... 2 for 1.

    Oh, and in the fourth year USC will be at RES. That's how a hoime and home series works.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    June 14, 2011 6:21 p.m.

    Howard S,

    Call us the FIRST time Utah gets Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Michigan, Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Auburn, or Miami to come to RES under ANY conditions, home-and-home, two-for-one, three-for-one, four-for-one, until then, you're all talk, but no walk.

    NONE of the elite teams outside of the PAC 12 wants to play the Utes in RES, and USC is the only elite team in the PAC 12.

    Besides USC, which was the last PAC 12 team to win a concensus national championship (#1 in AP AND Coaches poll)???

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 14, 2011 7:29 p.m.

    @Howard S

    1984 National Championship > BcS appearances

    Utah needs a National Championship to sit at the adult table. If you want to see what one looks like, come on down to Legacy Hall in Provo, UT to see one, because you won't find one in SLC.

    Utah fans can be happy with being the little fish in the PAC 10.2, but BYU has the ability to schedule it's own games. Utah is completely dependent upon pac 10.2, where as BYU has the Man Card in the state of Utah. Utah has the needy girlfriend personality: always thinks people want to be her, but everyone is actually really annoyed by their constant little man's disease.

    Utah can never be like their older, bigger brother in Provo. Utah is a public university with mediocre academics, and tiny stadium, which utah can't even fill up.

    BYU and our relationship with ESPN will trump Utah's PAC 10.2 seller dweller, red headed step child treatment. Btw, how much money is the pac10.2 giving utah this year? $0? Yep, red headed step child comes to mind...

    Win a national championship Howard. Then come talk.

    Go Cougars!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 14, 2011 7:29 p.m.

    @anti BCS

    Here is the deal anti...

    A lot of major teams will play BYU occasionally. And they may even come to LES occasionally.

    But, NONE of them will establish a long term series with BYU, and certainly they will not invite BYU to join them a conference mates.

    Period... end of story.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 14, 2011 7:37 p.m.

    @scenic view

    Remind me how BYU did the last time they played ND, BSU, and TCU.

    Oh right, 0-3.

    And playing those teams is going to rocket the Cougars to independent national prominence?

    Yeah right....

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 14, 2011 7:46 p.m.

    @Cougar_Independence

    "Win a national championship Howard. Then come talk."
    ************

    Funny that when the Big Boys come looking for a partner, all that Cougar glory meant absolutely nothing.

    Not even a sniff from a major conference.

    Maybe that old trophy was just so dusty and corroded that they didn't recognize it.

    Weird.

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    June 14, 2011 7:54 p.m.

    re: Howard S.

    At least BYU has done something Utah never has, defeated Notre Dame under the Golden Dome. Look sir, to compare Utah's program, with its cozy little 45k stadium that has only experienced three sellout seasons in history, to BYU's program, which arrived at the same spot about 35 years ago is a joke. BYU IS the only other program that could pull off Independence. Even Texas and Ohio State would struggle after a few years simply because they are still, like Utah, geographically centered programs.

    Utah fans need to chill out a bit, especially the ego. We in the know realize why Utah was taken ahead of BYU and it has little to do with how great your academics are (what a joke of an argument that one is). Clue sir, BYU would have been a real grab for the conference and seven of the ten PAC-10 institutions wanted it that way. In fact, the Athletic Departments at the three schools that said NO to BYU would have wanted BYU over Utah.

    BYU has a national presence and history that Utah will not have for at least two or three decades (if ever).

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    June 14, 2011 8:11 p.m.

    @Howard S.

    "A lot of major teams will play BYU occasionally. And they may even come to LES occasionally."

    Your argument is hollow and meaningless when you consider that no major team outside the PAC 12 has ever or will ever play Utah, not even occassionally, at RES.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 14, 2011 8:20 p.m.

    @killarney

    My, my, my....

    While the Collective considers Howard S. a troll, they certainly have a lot to say about his comments.

    You would think if Howard's comments were meaningless, irrelevant, or if they didn't touch on some troublesome truths they would be ignored, but the Collective seems intent on replying to virually every point that little Howard S. makes...

    Go figure...

    Here is the deal killarney...

    Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Utah was invited and BYU was not. Nothing more to say.

    With regard to independent success, no school has proven capable of success as an independent in the BCS era of college football.

    Notre Dame has a 58% winning record as a BCS independent. Army's and Navy's records are even worse.

    Is that the level of success BYU aspires to? Or, does BYU expect to succeed where others with greater resources have failed?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 14, 2011 8:23 p.m.

    @Solomon Levi

    ...sigh....

    Solomon, if Utah was as irrelevant as you imply, why would they get the BCS invite instead of the might (legends in their own minds) Cougars?

    jus' wonderin'...

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    June 14, 2011 8:46 p.m.

    Howard,

    I don't see how calling you out means I lost the "debate". That quote by Bronco says it "looks" like a 2 for 1 and it is "basically" a 2 for 1 in the sense that over 3 years BYU goes to Texas twice compared to Texas travelling once. But like I said, since USC comes to Utah once in the next three years while Utah goes to USC twice, that is "basically" a 2 for 1. But Texas signed a 1 for 1 with BYU. It is what it is.

    "Solomon, if Utah was as irrelevant as you imply, why would they get the BCS invite instead of the might (legends in their own minds) Cougars?

    jus' wonderin'... "

    Again, this is under the assumption that there is absolutely nothing in the world besides football. You will find very few people nationwide who believe the PAC not inviting BYU had nothing to do with BYU's religion policies. "But they appointed a Mormon, Michael Young, to be UW President". I know, I know. But President Young isn't going to instate a no-Sunday play policy, is he? You see the difference?

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    June 14, 2011 9:05 p.m.

    re: Howard S.

    "if Utah was as irrelevant as you imply, why would they get the BCS invite instead of the... Cougars?"

    I already answered that question.

    Now, prove that Utah is relevant by scheduling an elite team to come to RES or winning a trophy that means something, like a National Championship or Heisman trophy. New Year's Bowl trophies are only meaningful to teams that are incapable of reaching the pinnacle of college football.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 14, 2011 9:06 p.m.

    @Howard

    Still don't have a spot at the adult table yet. Sorry. No national title in SLC. And no home games on ESPN!

    Go Cougars!

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 14, 2011 10:22 p.m.

    Howard S.

    BYU proved its relevance by announcing an 8-year contract with ESPN, the World Wide Leader in Sports, the same day BYU declared its Independence.

    There's not a Utah fan out there who can honestly say they weren't bitterly disappointed when the PAC 12 football schedule was announced and Utah was completely ignored by ABC/ESPN.

    First year of Independence - SEVEN games and counting on ESPN for BYU
    First year in the PAC 12 - ONE game, courtesy of the bone BYU threw to Utah

    Nobody can honestly say that Texas would have been completely ignored by ABC/ESPN if Texas had joined the PAC 12 instead of Utah. Guaranteed, the Longhorns would have had more games on ABC/ESPN than any other team in the PAC 12, including the disgraced Trojans.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 14, 2011 10:24 p.m.

    PAC 12 logic:

    Let's invite the team that will play on Sunday's.

    Utes get your sinful wish. Play in the PAC 12, play on Sunday's.

    BYU takes the higher road.

    Go Cougars!

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 14, 2011 10:35 p.m.

    Howard

    If the mighty Utes (only in their minds) are really as relevant as you claim, why hasn't a single Utah player ever been inducted into the National College Football Hall of Fame?

    In fact, the ONLY Utah representative in the College Football Hall of Fame is a coach who retired over half a century ago, in 1949.