I'm hoping for a great season in 2011. The possibilities are there for the
Cougars to break out and have the kind of season that establishes them as a
national, not just regional, football powerhouse. Tradition comes from success,
and it looks like the Cougars are well-positioned in the coming years to build
on their great tradition.
Every time conference expansion talk heats up we always hear about the
possibility of Notre Dame joining a conference. They always remain an
independent though, simply because of the rivalries they have built up with
teams like Stanford, USC, Navy, Michigan. . . these are games that Notre Dame
wants to play every year, and a conference would kill those rivalries. . . kind
of like how the PAC 10+2 is trying to kill the Holy War. Well, if BYU comes out
and has a great season, turns heads and kicks some tail: all we'll hear about is
how great a move independence was and the team up on the hill will be forgotten.
They will fall into the "In other news..." category of Sportscenter.
I hope the six games with Notre Dame leads to an annual rivalry afterward,
played late in the season. If both schools have strong records, viewership will
be off the charts. It can become the new Holy War.With Army and
Navy as independents, I'm wondering why Air Force doesn't pursue that course
also. If it works for Army and Navy, it should work for Air Force. Of all the
teams in the MWC, I'd like to see the game between BYU and Air Force become a
Very few teams in the nation can make independence work. So far, so good for
BYU. Although the cougars don't have an auto-bid like Notre Dame,
the criteria for the team to make it to a BCS bowl is basically the same as it
was when BYU was in the MWC. With much better exposure and significantly more
TV money, Independence is a no-brainer compared to the MWC. I also like the
fact that BYU is in the position to accept an invite to a BCS conference more
easily in the event such an invite comes in the future. Either way
the future is bright for the Cougs! I'm excited for the season to start!
Notre Dame didn't become Notre Dame overnight, it took many years and
games...BYU will not take as long, but it won't be overnight growth as
well...but be sure, they will become a house hold name and a larger national
BYU's history might pale in comparison to Notre Dame, but so does just about
EVERY program in the country. No one has the same history as Notre Dame. I'll
admit even Army and Navy probably have more history than BYU. But right now is
right now. BYU has a chance to do special things this year and add to their
legacy and history that is still greater than most division 1 programs in the
country. Go Cougs!
When Hollywood starts making great movies about the BYU football team you'll
know we're inching closer to ND. Until then we can Fredette about it. No harm in
OK, from now on, tbe (team back east) is "the BYU of the East."
I love the headline for the story, "BYU , Norte Dame have similarities,
differences"! Next we will be told that water is wet and Hamlet is the
chief character in Shakespeare's play by that title.
I'm excited for games with ND. Attending a game there is a true college football
experience, the fans are great and the campus becomes the center of the game day
experience. It is awesome. The future games are going to be awesome.
I am very pleased with BYU's move to independence. While some may wish they were
in the PAC-10.2, I do not. And I'm not even sure that I want them in the Big-12
should that become an option. I like independence. I like the idea of playing
all over the country and playing different teams each year. Could BYU make more
money in a BCS conference? Probably, but so what? That means nothing to me.
Independence is bringing in enough money to run a very successful program and
that is all that matters. Some of BYU's critics make fun of this
years schedule but I think Holmoe has done an outstanding job putting it
together so quickly. Every reasonably intelligent person knew it would take a
few years to get the schedules put together. Based on what has been revealed so
far I am confident that future schedules will be very good. Now the
only thing that really matters is winning. If BYU wins then this move to
independence will be seen as a brilliant move. If they don't win then It will
become very ugly.Go Cougars!
Biggest difference is that most Catholics in U.S. see Notre Dame as their team.
There are over 68 million catholic members in the U.S. compared to 5.1 million
LDS members. If 40% of of membership cheer for their religion, Catholics have
more than 24 million fans than BYU. That is why they are not equal.
The movie airplane had something that rhymed. Were it said win one for the zip.
That would be a good rivalry.
BYU has similarities with Notre Dame the same way Pee-wee Herman has
similarities with John Wayne.
I am a Catholic, I went to Catholic schools and I think it is inaccurate to say
that most Catholics in the U.S. see Notre Dame as their team. Catholics see the Catholic universities they went to and which are in their
area as "their schools":: the Boston College's, Villanova's,
Georgetown's, Marquette's, St. John's, Portland U's, Seattle U's, Marymounts,
Santa Clara's.etc.I can assure you that Catholics graduating from
Michigan are NOT Norte Dame fans, nor will they ever be, even if they moved to
Howie13 people commented on here before you made it on to impress us
with your wit and wisdom. What took you so long? As I said on a previous post
a couple of days ago, apparently you find your comments to be amusing, the rest
of us just find them juvenile.I find it interesting that so many
anti-BYU types are constantly saying that the 1984 N.C. was so long ago that
it's irrelevant. Did any of you notice that Notre Dame only has 1 N.C after
1984 and that was just a few years later in 1988? Everyone knows that the
program has been struggling in recent years yet they are still considered to be
among the elite of college football. That's what history and a long legacy of
success does for you. BYU's history and legacy certainly don't compare with
Notre Dame but they do compare favorably with many prominent programs around the
country and teams like Utah don't even hold a candle in comparison.
Re: Howard S.Funny, those are the same similarities that Utah has
with most of the Pac-12.
Well Said - this is so very true..Ldsfan | 8:37 a.m. June 12, 2011
South Jordan, UT Biggest difference is that most Catholics in U.S.
see Notre Dame as their team. There are over 68 million catholic members in the
U.S. compared to 5.1 million LDS members. If 40% of of membership cheer for
their religion, Catholics have more than 24 million fans than BYU. That is why
they are not equal.
To Mountain Man 56. Nobody believes that notre dame is an elite team
but they have more than elite money and sell out every game even in bad years.
Their fan base, money and potential are far above 95% of all teams. They will
win a nc before BYU. Their independence vs. BYU independence is like night and
day. If history is what you want, try 54-34 and 4 ties for the Utah
Utes. When did history start in Provo? Was that in 1984? Are you
always looking to be offended? Loosen up.
KamUteI'm not always looking to be offended however there are
numerous Ute fans constantly commenting on BYU articles who are always looking
to be offensive.I completely disagree about nobody believing that
Notre Dame is an elite team. If they weren't, they wouldn't be the only program
in the country with their own network TV contract. You're evaluation of who
will win a N.C. first is simply your Ute bias. Obviously no one knows that but
based on the current status of the two programs, I'd put my money on BYU.You asked if history started in 1984 at BYU and the answer to that is
no, it started in 1972 when Lavell Edwards became the head coach. Everyone who
knows anything about BYU football, knows that prior to Lavell becoming head
coach, very little emphasis was place on football at BYU and being nationally
competitive was inconceivable. However, for almost 40 years now, BYU has been a
nationally prominent football program. Congratulations to the Utes because you
joined those ranks over the last decade. You only have 30 more years to go to
equal BYU's current status.
@ldsfan"Biggest difference is that most Catholics in U.S. see
Notre Dame as their team. There are over 68 million catholic members in the U.S.
compared to 5.1 million LDS members. If 40% of of membership cheer for their
religion, Catholics have more than 24 million fans than BYU. That is why they
are not equal"And yet percentage wise BYU's fanbase in
comparison to utahs is much larger than the percentage of Notre Dames to BYU.
That is why BYU and utah are not equal and why utah is dependent on riding the
coattails of true national progams whereas BYU can succeed without the charity
of anyone else. That is why they are nowhere close to equal.
I can't help but chuckle when I read "I really like independence"
comments from BYU fans. The Cougars haven't played a single game yet as an
independent, so everything is speculative at this point.I hope BYU
does well as an independent, and I expect they will. But BYU fans saying
"I like independence" is sorta like saying "I really like being
married" one week after saying "I do."
BYU having 6 games scheduled with ND do have some similarities, only ND will
prevail 6 - 0 and there's no similarities there!!!
I think such an article unleashes many myths amongst the BYU does everything
right kool-aid drinkers as well as those that absolutely hate BYU and wish Provo
would turn into Rexburg with respects to college athletics. First of all BYU
grew fast enough during the 1950s and 60s that they now have a huge base of
living alumni that numbers close to 400,000, and given they have historically
attracted a larger alumni base outside the state of Utah gives them a larger
regional or national appeal than Utah has, but it isnt that much bigger and both
schools need league alignments to survive. Notre Dame grew as an independent
largely due to an accident in league alignment over a century ago. While BYUs
choice to go independent isnt that much different today, scheduling and
alignment politics are much more stringent and if BYU wants to survive, they
must eventually find a league like the Big-12 or face the prospect of scaling
back or possibly even eliminating intercollegiate athletics before the end of
the decade. Interleague scheduling rules now prevent building the rivalries
Notre Dame built a century ago for BYU now.
"If history is what you want, try 54-34 and 4 ties for the Utah Utes. When
did history start in Provo? Was that in 1984?"KamUte,Do you realize that in the first 50 games or so, more than 30 of those games
were in Salt Lake? And do you realize that ever since the home/away ratio has
been split even (since 1972 there were 39 games-- 20 in SLC, 19 in Provo), BYU
has gone 26-13 against Utah?Go ahead and try and spin that. I dare
you. 26-13 is not pretty. BYU fans can claim that Utah's early advantage came
by a massive home-field advantage (which is evident here) and the fact that BYU
didn't really have much of a football team until later (back then, BYU was about
as serious about football as the Lakers are serious about good sportsmanship).
What argument do Utah fans have now that the playing field has been evened
out?If you want to consider the overall record as being even
remotely indicative of superiorty, how about we make the home/away record even
and play the next 22 games in Provo?
ND went independent because they can play anyone they want and didn't want to be
tied to one conference. BYU went independent because they wanted to make the
statement they are available (and then none of the BCS conferences wanted them)
and they didn't want to be stuck in the MWC with their TV deal. When
the conferences re-align, BYU will want to get back in with some bigger
schools.So they are both independent but for entirely different
@Riverton Cougar & KamUte: The BYU-Utah rivalry was played exclusively in
Salt Lake City virtually every year until 1965 when WAC rules required an annual
rotation of the game, both schools agreed to a 2 year shuffle from 1972-1975
(BYU winning all 4 of those games). BYU dominated the 1970s and 1980s as the
Utah program fell completely into mediocrity, but the last 2 decades it has been
a .500 series.While the future might be somewhat in doubt with Pac-12
Commissioner Larry Scott requiring a September meeting for all OOC games except
USC or Stanford playing Notre Dame, I sense if Scott has any motive is for BYU
to accept a likely forthcoming Big-12 invitation more than destroying the
rivalry. Historically the game didnt move until the end of the year until the
1970s anyhow (I still remember an October 28 date in Provo back in 1967). But
if the Big-12 does invite BYU sooner I see Scott and his counterpart Dan Beebe
in the Big-12 working with ESPN and Fox-Sports to make the rivalry as visible as
the SEC/ACC rivalries in Georgia, Florida and South Carolina.
'Some have mocked the Cougars for being audacious enough to try to brand
themselves as "The Notre Dame of the West."'Mr. Call, I
challenge you to find one quote from a BYU official where they say they want to
be the Norte Dame of the West. It may be out there but I couldn't find it. I
spent several minutes seaching the internet and found several sources quoting
Tom Holmoe saying "We're not Norte Dame", but not one quote that
suggests what you said. I assume you have more resources at your disposal than I
do. If it is out there you should be able to find it. Surely as a credible
journalist you didn't give credit to BYU for saying something that appears to
have been said by an SI reporter and then repeated by other journalists so many
times that you (journalists as a group) have began to believe it; perpetuating a
so called "quote" which has caused some to mock the Cougars.
Fail. BYU is not Notre Dame in any way.
Ute fan here. BYU has definitely put themselves in a better
position by going independent. While there is no comparison to be made between
the history of these two programs (BYU and Notre Dame), I don't see why, based
on where they're both at now, you couldn't compare their futures. I would love
to see an annual game between these two independents, and could see myself
getting behind BYU in those games. Based on my one trip to South
Bend to see the Utah game a few months ago, I thought Notre Dame had a classy
fan base. I was on the 9th row surrounded by green and everyone was very
friendly. Wouldn't mind seeing a little rivalry formed between BYU and ND- wish
the cougs the best if that happens.
A huge difference:ND plays a majority of it's games against BCS
schools (2011: 10 BCS and 2 non-BCS). If BYU ever goes to the PAC 12 or Big 12
it would greatly improve their status. Getting a BCS conference invite seems
unlikely so they better upgrade their scheduling so it is majority BCS.
"Then again, almost everything about the Fighting Irish's football history
seems hard to believe. In many ways, Notre Dame epitomizes college football.You want proof? The College Football Hall of Fame is located not far
from the campus in South Bend, Ind."Isn't the College Football
Hall of Fame moving to Atlanta Georgia because attendance is low? So what does
this really say about how Notre Dame epitomizes college football? So is similar
or dissimilar to the direction that BYU is going? I don't quite understand this
comment as proof?
@Z2010: The Pac-12 will NEVER accept a religious university, BYU included. The
Big-12 is the most likely destination for BYU since this independence gig is
likely to be very short lived.
"Biggest difference is that most Catholics in U.S. see Notre Dame as their
team.'ldsfan,Typical byu fan. Trying to make bYu similar
to ND. I live in a predominat Catholic areas of the U.S. I would wager to say
90 percent of all Catholics in Michigan do not root for ND.... it has zero to do
with religion.For the most part, Catholics don't need a
"school" as an identity crutch.
At Duckhunter,The article was comparing Notre Dame to BYU as did I.
I did not bring up Utah's fan base. With most of this state being lds, I expect
many more fans and because BYU is a private, religious school, I expect a large
fan base nationwide but for anyone to say BYU has a similar sized fan base is
ridiculous. To everyone else: 54-34-4. No excuses.
"The Pac-12 will NEVER accept a religious university"slc
bYu fan,If ND asked to join the PAC12.....the PAC12 would trip over
themselves rolling out the red carpit.
Ok we went independent and some think it was a big mistake, but lets take a
closer look. Here are some advantages:1.own TV contract2.Scheduling
better teams, ND would not have been a 6 game deal other wise3.More
exposure4.Keep all the bowl money5.Better recuriting national due to
TV6.BCS bowl, possibilityWhat a BCS bowl possibility, I must
be nuts!! Well, maybe but when you really look at it we have a pretty good
chance. In a conference normally only the champion and runner-up may receive a
BCS bid, never the 3rd place team etc. All we have to do is qualify by winning
9 games or more and finishing in the TOP 14. That seems alot simpler than
winning a conference, especially as some believe our 2nd half schedule is
alittle soft. And with ESPN as a partner you can be sure they will be pushing us
to one of those bowls or at least something like the Cotton, Gator, Citrus etc.
Maybe I've missed something so please inform me!!!
>>>All we have to do is qualify by winning 9 games or more and
finishing in the TOP 14.That is the rule written for Notre Dame, not
for independents in general.
"A huge difference:ND plays a majority of it's games against
BCS schools (2011: 10 BCS and 2 non-BCS). If BYU ever goes to the PAC 12 or Big
12 it would greatly improve their status. Getting a BCS conference invite seems
unlikely so they better upgrade their scheduling so it is majority BCS."BYU is a step ahead of you, and is already in the process of doing
exactly that. BYU's future schedules will be mostly BCS teams (if the BCS can
hold on that long). As for joining a conference, I don't think Holmoe is
planning on doing that, and I'm unsure he'll accept it unless the conditions are
very favorable for BYU (more favorable than independence).
Okay my Cougar friends...Back from MLM meetings... or as we call
them in Utah County on Sundays... Firesides.Post-date the checks,
deferred delivery of product advances and everything is good.Selling
the dream has never been sweeter...Now for a sad bit of independence
reality, my friends...During the BCS era, your fellow independents
have overall records as follows:Army: 35% winning
percentageNavy: 51% winning percentageNotre Dame: 58%
winning percentageIndependence in the modern era a college football
has not been kind to your fellow independence-mates.With all the
resources, broadcast deals, and legacy in the world your model program has less
than a 60% record???And you think your Cougars will do better as an
independent that Notre Dame???Wake up and smell the health promoting
nutrient juice my friends... independence is going to be a long and rocky road.
YAWN.... Certain Trolls working so hard to convince everyone that BYU is a
sinking ship are BORING. They spin the same half-truths over and over in some
desperate bid for attention. We all saw that for ourselves on the 2 articles a
few days ago about the ESPN deals BYU has in place. I don't even bother reading
them anymore. I mean, really, what's the point?!
"To everyone else: 54-34-4. No excuses."Really? No
excuses? That's you're justification? It doesn't matter under what
circumstances the record was acquired, all that matters is that it is in the
Utes' favor?If you want to eliminate all excuses, you're more than
welcome to send a letter to Dr. Hill and request that the next 22 BYU-Utah games
be scheduled in Provo. Until then, saying "no excuses" is like USC
telling the NCAA that they won the 2004 championship no excuses.
Hint: The trolls will go away if you ignore them. Don't feed their need for
recognition.BYU isn't Notre Dame. Shorter football tradition. But
that's then, and this is now.I believe over the next 10 years, BYU's
winning percentage, and number of BCS bowls attended, will outnumber Notre
Dame's. BYU is on a faster upswing in its program than is Notre Dame, whose time
just might have passed.However, those predictions all depend on who
the coaches are during that span. Coaching always makes a difference in a
Veracity Serious??The Notre Dame brand is much bigger than BYU will
ever be.Notre Dame has won several National CHampionships and has produced
several Heisman's. Notre Dame has a following from many faces of College
Football. BYU has only church members that cheer for BYU. THis whole Independent
thing will come bqack to haunt you on a National level, that is you can't
compete Independently against top talent and win.
crowntown1 | 2:10 a.m. June 13, 2011 Corona, CANot true that
just church members cheer for BYU, I have family that isn't LDS, and they cheer
for BYU, I have friends back east who cheer for BYU when they watch them, so
To all of the BYU Can Do No Wrong Kool-Aid Drinkers, I might point out that some
of the LDS Church leadership (a VERY small minority as Tom Holmoe puts it) does
not like the BYU Athletic Department and feels that its mission stifles the
development of state institutions most notably Utah State University, and that
the missionary aspect of college athletics is best served by sending LDS student
athletes to other institutions. This more than anything is why athletics were
discontinued up at Rexburg a decade ago.While independence currently is a
better option than remaining in the MWC, staying independent long term will
create other problems since scheduling in this day and age wont work since most
BCS leagues require October and November to be reserved exclusively for
conference play. Its a safe assumption BYU will accept an invitation to join
the Big-12 in 2-3 years once that league works out some internal issues. All it
will take is Oklahoma to be undefeated this year and left of the NCG due to no
CCG in the Big-12 and an invitation will come very quickly!
Mountaingirl56;Thank you for your all consuming knowledge about
everything BYU. Can you write a post without using the word Juvenile to complain
about Utah commentsYes it has been 27 years since BYU won the
NC...... Time to get over it.Utah 2 BCS invites 2 winsBYU 0 BCS invites 0 winsBYU is a squirrel with no tail, all
squeak and no roar.
flintrock,Talk about being a hypocrite. "Can you write a post
without using the word Juvenile to complain about Utah commentsYes it has
been 27 years since BYU won the NC...... Time to get over it.Utah 2 BCS
invites 2 winsBYU 0 BCS invites 0 wins"You sound like USU
fans with the same broken record comments. That is juvenile! Kids complain and
bring up the same old things parents are tired of hearing about. Grow up kid!
We're glad you're so proud utah broke into the most corrupt sports organization
known to man...twice!As far as Notre Dame, BYU is nowhere close to
where they've been, but are light years ahead of them right now in terms of
success. ND gets top 5 recruiting classes, but with nothing to show for it.
BYU isn't even ranked in recruiting, but has consistently ended up in the top 25
for the last few years (minus last year).
I say we all make a new rule....the only year that matters is the last year and
the one coming up. You get bragging rights for a year, that's it. No more
"We won 2 BCS games" and no more "we won a NC in 1984." I
think that would eliminate the endless back and forth from both schools. I'm a
BYU fan, and yes, I do get tired of the '84 NC card, and "countless other
awards( Heisman, etc.) I also get tired of the "2 BCS wins" card.
I'm not trying to say these accomplishments from both schools aren't great, or
that one is better than the other, but it's getting old. Who ever wins the
BYU/UTAH game gets bragging rights for a year, that's it. No more going back
60+ years or pulling out why you think one school is better than the other.
Let's just all be proud with the direction each school is going, and call it at
that. BYU fans are not going to convince U fans that their program is going in
the wrong direction and vice versa. Who's with me?
Old greg, Im with you all the way.Utah is coming off a 10-3 season
and were ranked in the FINAL polls and beat BYU, and is heading into next season
ranked in the preaseason polls, and has a SOS 80+ spots tougher than last year
(33 toughest schedule in nation this year). Utah could be in for more losses
considering moving up 80+ spots in preaseason SOS.BYU is coming off
a 7-6 season, and were unranked in the FINAL polls and lost to Utah, and is
heading into next season unranked in the preaseason polls, and has a SOS 40+
spots easier than last year (112th toughest schedule in nation this year) BYU
could be in for more wins considering moving down 40+ in preaseaon SOS. Braging rights after next season:Who ever wins the BYU-Utah game,
Who ever has the higher ranking at the Final PollsThat's it.
In other words, if you win the Utah-BYU game, have a better record, and end the
season ranked, then UTAH has braging rights until Sept 17 2011. It
was a Utah sweep in 2010: rivlery game, check. Record, check. Ranking, check.
Recruiting battle, check.Lets argue about the present.
Riverton Cougar,Since the UTES are 6-3 in wins and losses in Provo
since 1993, I think that we would have a good chance of going 15-7 in Provo if
we played the next 22 games there. No matter where they play, the game is always
close. Except for the years the Utes went to BCS games. So set it up with Hill
and Holmoe. The Y needs this game more than the Utes do.
the similarities: they both are independent private schoolsthe
differences: ND is an institution in college football that makes it one of the
biggest and most noteworthy programs ever. BYU is going to be in decline unless
it can find it's way into the BIG 12 soon!!!
I usually do not post on any y sites because I frankly do not care about the
little brothers of Utah County, but this one was too good to pass up!Here is the elephant in the room - the differences can be summed up as
follows:- Notre Dame = relevant- y = irrelevantThis is evidenced by the fact that the y had to do a 4 and 2 with ND to get a
series with them, the first two being played AT ND, and the other 4 ... well ...
no one knows when or if the other four will be played.Have fun in no
mans land! It is indeed great to be a Ute!!Oh, and, go Santa
@ Papa Smurf UTE,Way to rig the stats.Let's try
comparing apples to apples. Like only the years Bronco and Kyle have been
head-to-head.Pretty much a toss-up, considering what Kyle and Bronco
both inherited.And, "forreal people" is correct that the
Utes might have the tougher schedule next year, allowing BYU to out-win them
overall.That makes September 17th all the more fun to look forward
to.@ VegasUte,Glad you DON'T post on BYU articles very
often. It was irrelevant!
@VegasUteHere is Relevancy for U...After this next
series with Notre Dame, the Mighty Irish will have graced Provo with their
presence 4 times.In one million years, the most storied program in
the History of College Football, would never step foot in RES.One
and done in South Bend, is all the Utes got with N.D. How did that
go for your #5 ranked team, and National TV?BYU is relevant enough
for 8, count them 8 scheduled ESPN broadcasts, so far this year. BYU
is relevant enough to schedule Home and Homes with Storied Programs, all accross
the Land and Neutral site, 2 million dollar games with ESPN as well.If no-mans-land is National TV for every game, 8-10 of those on ESPN, with
same day re-broadcasts on National BYU-TV, then where does that leave U?You just worry about where the Utes can be seen this year, kjzz, kutv or
fox regional?Be sure to let your "Regional" audience know.
everyone knows byu is way better than Noter Dame in history and success and
independence is way better than a Rose bowl.
Bluto, By no means is BYU-TV a national station that everyone will
be watching the re brodcasts of the Y games. It is an obscure station that not
even myself, an active member knows about. It still leaves the U in the Pac 12,
with games vs USC, Oregon, etc every year, and sometimes every few years
depending on the North division games.
@ Papa Smurf UTE (3:39 p.m),Of course BYUtv is obscure! Right now,
at least.That's because nothing of note for a national sports
audience has been broadcasted in HD on it yet.BYUtv is gearing up
for the advent of putting on BYU sports like never before. It'll be quite well
known soon enough as BYU's followers learn of its existence.It'll
even be available on cell phones and iPads, etc. It'll become ubiquitous. No
problem.BYU's followers include both their own fans, plus fans of
other teams who will be wondering who their upcoming BYU opponent is.I bet BYU's fan base will expand through BYUtv alone, let alone how many more
will become fans from all those ESPN broadcasts.You don't have to be
LDS or an alma mater to become a BYU fan. And many such as those have, although
not so much during the mtn network's dark ages.
"Utah is coming off a 10-3 season and were ranked in the FINAL polls and
beat BYU"That's funny. I looked at all the top 25 spots in the
AP poll and didn't find the Utes anywhere. So they weren't ranked in the
"polls". Maybe one poll (a poll in which Kyle Whittingham has a
vote), but not "the polls".PapaSmurf Ute,So
you brought up the fact that while we can replicate one of the advantages Utah
had over BYU (many home games), we can't replicate the other advantage Utah had:
an opponent that put little effort (if any at all) into having a good football
program. Utah is well past that point.With that being said, I
realize Utah would most certainly not go 0-22, but they would not go 15-7
either. Now that Utah's SOS is up, they can't put as much preparation into the
BYU game as they have in games past (where BYU is prepared for in advance). If
they tried that this year, USC will roll over them. Part of me says the Utes
might think it will be worth it, though.
@BlutoOff to my MLM meetings or as we call them in Utah County on
Monday night FHEThe close just doesnt get any easier"Is there anything in this world these beautiful children dont
deserve?" "And, is there any investment you wouldnt make
to give them the things they deserve?"Pure gold I tell ya those
questions are pure gold the checkbooks come out faster than an RMs testimony on
his first, BYU first date...butwhateverMay I offer
little guidance for the esteemed and numerically gifted Mr. Bluto before I head
outRegarding the privilege of 4 ND appearances at LES, youll have to
go to ND eight times for that honor. Not to mention that your current record
against the Irish is 2-4. Yeah, Baby where do you sign up for that?As for TV appearances... you speak of them as if they were victories in and of
themselves. Note to Mr. Bluto: No victory has ever been declared
because one team has the most TV appearances.To be continued
moderators willing of course
@Bluto - continuedAnd those neutral site games youre so proud of
What storied program wouldnt accept an ESPN game against a beatable opponent in
their own backyard? In fact, it reflects more on the stature of the
storied program than BYU. Here is how the negotiation went down, my
friendESPN to storied program: Would you like to do home and home
with BYU?Storied Program: BYU home and home? You must be kidding me?ESPN: Well no.Storied Program: Then no.ESPN: Okay, how about if
we sweeten the pot by throwing in a so called neutral game within spitting
distance of your campus?Storied program: Huhhhh that sounds like a two
for one.ESPN: If you say so Storied program: Well then, okay. You get the picture, BlutoIn the immortal words of the
famous Mr. Jon Wilner ...the world doesnt always revolve around BYU
BYU is not the Notre Dame of the west, Notre Dame is the BYU of the east.Both schools are religious based, both are independent, and both have
their own TV contract. Utes, how did your visit to Notre Dame go
last year? Is Notre Dame ever gonna return the visit to Utah? Nope. Why? Because
no one cares about ute football. On the other hand, Notre Dame will
be visiting Provo twice over the next few years. All 4 of BYU's visits to South
Bend will be on NBC. On the other hand, Utah is going to visit USC, and play on
Versus!ESPN > PAC 12 > UtahBYU = King of the
mountainUtah = little fish in big pondGo Cougars!
@flintrock"Army: 35% winning percentageNavy: 51% winning
percentageNotre Dame: 58% winning percentage"Good thing
BYUis not army, or navy, or notre dame! And good thing BYU's winning percentage
under Bronco Mendenhal is 73% since taking over as head coach of BYU!Also, Bronco has won more games than Kyle Wittingham as a head coach. Just
@papa smurf ute"By no means is BYU-TV a national station that
everyone will be watching the re brodcasts of the Y games. It is an obscure
station that not even myself, an active member knows about. It still leaves the
U in the Pac 12, with games vs USC, Oregon, etc every year"1)
BYU Tv is available in over 50 million homes in North America, and available for
free online to over 1 billion people in the world who have a computer with
Internet access, and will soon be available to millions more as an iPad, iPhone,
and smart phone app. 2) What channel is Utah's game against USC on?3) How many home games does Utah have on ESPN or ABC or ESPN2? Simple math: BYU + ESPN > UtahGo Cougars!
@ Howard S"ESPN to storied program: Would you like to do home
and home with BYU?Storied Program: BYU home and home? You must be kidding
me?ESPN: Well no.Storied Program: Then no."1)
Oregon State2) Georgia Tech3) Boise State4) HawaiiAll these schools have agreed to home and home games with BYU. 0 Neutral site
games. Do you like the taste of crow?Go Cougars!
@Cougar_IndependenceKyle 58-20, 74%Bronc0 56-21, 73%Fact: No current independent school has better than a 60% winning percentage
in the BCS era of collegiate football era...Where Notre Dame, Navy,
and Army have failed, BYU will succeed...Riiiight...
BYU > Notre Dame > Utah.Utah ended 2010 with an embarrassing
loss to Boise State. That daunting Utah offense scored a whopping 3 points to
Boise's 26. Blow out and embarrassment. Way to end the 2010 season strong
Utah!BYU won their bowl game, and put up 52 points - a BYU and New
Mexico Bowl record. BYU won 4 of it's last 5 games, Utah went 2-3 in it's last 5
games, and both wins came by less than 5 points. BYU ended 2010
strong, Utah walked out of Las Vegas in 2010 licking their wounds, with their
tail tucked between their legs. BYU is ranked 34th in Athlon's 2011
pre-season poll, Utah is ranked 48th.BYU has a better record in 2011
than Utah, I'm calling it now!Go Cougars!
@Cougar_Independence Home and homes with BYU?Ole Miss - NoTexas - No Notre Dame - No TCU - No West Va. - NoTaking confidence in the New Mexico Bowl? Really? I mean... really?You don't play Utah State next year do you?Utah Home and homes?USC - YesOregon - YesOregon State - YesWashington - YesWashington St - YesCalifornia - YesUCLA - YesStanford -
YesArizona - YesArizona St. - YesColorado - YesPitt -
@Howard SNotre Dame has been to more BCS games than Utah. How are
they failing? Notre Dame also has 5 national championships, which is much more
than Utah's 0. Also, nice math, but you gave Whitt an extra win. 57
wins, compared to BYU's 56. But one thing remains that is a huge thorn in Utah's
record under whit: 27-0 loss at UNLV.Go Cougars!
flintrock | 9:43 a.m. June 13, 2011Rigby, IdMountaingirl56;Thank you for your all consuming knowledge about everything BYU. Can you write
a post without using the word Juvenile to complain about Utah commentsBYU is a squirrel with no tail, all squeak and no roar. ********I have used the word juvenile twice ever on my comments
and both times were specifically regarding the juvenile comments of Howard S.
However, you fit in very nicely with him with your extremely mature changing of
my moniker to Mountain"girl"56 and your ingenious analogy of the
@Cougar_IndependenceWhit was head coach for the 2004 Fiesta Bowl.
Count it or not, in any case 57 wins is more than 56 wins for Bronco
and I thought someone said Bronco had more wins.3 BCS bowl games for
Notre Dame, but Utah has 2 more BCS victories than Notre Dame.As for
Notre Dame success, as an independent in the BCS era they have a winning
percentage of 58%.Is 58% the level independent success that BYU
aspires to? Or, does BYU think they will do better as an
independent than Notre Dame?
@Mountainman56So Mountainman56 finds my comments juvenile?Funny, that he nonetheless finds my comments worthy of reply...
@Cougar_Independence"...a huge thorn in Utah's record under
whit: 27-0 loss at UNLV."************Bringing up a game
more than 3 years ago? Really?Okay let's talk about it.Since that game Utah has a record of 41-7, or 85% including the Sugar Bowl
beat down of Alabama.Since that game BYU has a record of 36-11, or
77% including a 31-16 loss to Utah State.
Howard,BYU and Texas have signed a home and home deal. This 2011
game was signed a year ago, and after BYU became independent Texas and BYU
signed a home and home. Your credibility goes out the window.The
Ole Miss and TCU games are filler games to help out somebody who wanted to
schedule a quality opponent at the last minute. Trust me, those are the words
TCU used when looking for an opponent, and they considered BYU to be a worthy
opponent.Notice they didn't ask Utah. Has Utah been in talks with
TCU, Texas, Ole Miss, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc. about playing future
games? You mention the PAC teams as having home and home with Utah in the same
manner as BYU/Texas having a deal.Trust me, if Utah was still in the
MWC they would not be dealing home and homes with USC, Oregon, Stanford, etc.
Pitt is the only true home and home you can boast about.
@Riverton Cougar2 games at Texas and 1 at LES is a 2 for 1 no matter
how you try to spin it. Looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's
probably a duck.Ole Miss and TCU are one and done's on the road
regardless of the spin. Neither offered a return trip to Provo did they?Utah has perpetual home and homes with some of the most storied schools
in college football. They don't need to go looking for short term scraps,
leftovers, one and done's and 2 for 1s like BYU is doing.Oh, and the
reason the Utah is not in MWC is because USC, Oregon, and Stanford chose to
invite them for perpetual home and homes.
Howard S. vs RealityWhy Notre Dame and BYU are similar, and Utah
isn't:National ChampionshipsNotre Dame - YesBYU - YesUtah - noHeisman TrophiesNotre Dame - YesBYU - YesUtah - noMultiple National College Football Hall of Fame
InducteesNotre Dame - YesBYU - YesUtah - noPerennial Top 25 RankingsNotre Dame - YesBYU - YesUtah -
noExclusive National Network Television ContractsNotre Dame -
YesBYU - YesUtah - noNational FanbasesNotre Dame -
YesBYU - YesUtah - noNational CachetNotre Dame -
YesBYU - YesUtah - noLegacy ProgramsNotre Dame -
YesBYU - YesUtah - noIt takes more than a couple of BcS
wins to build a legacy program. Yes, U were invited to a BcS conference, so were
Louisville, Cinncinnati, and South Florida; Baylor, Indiana, Rutgers, and
Washington State have been BcS conference members for years.Storied
programs like Texas, Notre Dame, Miami, USC, Florida State, and Penn State have
been visiting LES since the 80's. Utah settles for one-and-dones at Notre Dame
and Michigan because Utah doesn't have the national cachet to get storied
programs to visit RES.BYU = IndependentUtah = Dependent on the
PAC 12 to get USC to visit RES
HowieOle Miss was scheduled as a favor to BYU's partner, ESPNTexas was scheduled as a one-and-done before BYU's ESPN contractThe home-and-home with Texas was scheduled after BYU announced
independenceOklahoma, Texas, and West Virgina are all neutral site,
made-for-television gamesNotre Dame is 2-for-1, something Utah could
only dream of pulling off, since Utah had to settle for 1-and-done just to get
Notre Dame to play UtahCall us when Utah actually gets one of the
true college football elites to play in RES without having to be coerced by the
@TrollPolice"Howard S. vs Reality"*********Howard knows reality.Notre Dame = Demands 2 for 1s from the likes
of BYUBYU = Depends on the BCS and ESPN for 1 and dones and 2 for 1s
in September. Depends on the MWC and the WAC to fill out the October and
November schedule when the big boys are in the midst of conference schedules.Utah = As an invited partner, enjoys perpetual home and homes with the
elites of college football.
Howard the DuckBYU has been scheduling home-and-home games with PAC
10 teams for years. BYU even played USC home-and-home during the Crowton era.
It's really not a big deal. Until Utah is able to get a true elite
like Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Michigan, Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State,
LSU, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Auburn, or Miami to come to RES, you're
all talk, but no walk (not even a waddle).
@UfanNeutral site games within spitting distance of the BCS opponent
are not neutral, no matter how you spin it.BYU needed ESPN pull to
pull off the Ole Miss game. Wouldn't have happened otherwise. And on top of
that it's a one and one with no return to Provo. I guess it leaves room on the
home schedule for San Jose St.Keep spinning the Texas 2 for 1.
Someone might believe it someday. Call when you can get a home and
home with a top tier BCS team on your own terms without big brother ESPN calling
in favors for you to get it done.
howard s"Notre Dame = Demands 2 for 1s from the likes of
BYU"Notre Dame = Demands 1 and dones from the likes of UtahUtah = Invited cannon fodder and completely ignored by ABC/ESPNBYU = Seven ESPN games and counting in just the first year of Independence
@Snack PACLook at it this way Snack PAC.The BCS elites
might invite BYU occasionally for dinner. But they certainly aren't going to
invite you to stay the night. And besides that, I don't see
Oklahoma, Michigan, Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Georgia, Florida,
Florida State, Auburn, or Miami lining up to come to LES even on a 2 for 1
basis.Perpetual home and homes are the mainstay of college football.
With the BCS limiting non-conference games after September how is BYU going to
establish meaningful rivalries as an independent?In the BCS era
independence has proven to be a failed competitive model. No independent has
better than a 60% winning percentage. With all the advantages of Notre Dame
they have only a 58% winning percentage.How is BYU going to beat
Notre Dames record as an independent in the BCS era?
@scenic viewI'd be interested for you the cite a single instance
where a college football team was awarded a victory based on the number of
televised games.Cougars seem to have adopted the idea that a
televised game counts in some sort of scoring equation.You've still
got to win them, my friend. And if you don't win them that coverage will
disappear quickly.As for Utah, if they win in the PAC there will no
shortage of coverage. But if they lose, there will be $30 million reasons to
Trus me Howard no is scared of playing BYU. Let me remind you when you played
FSU at home at got smoked.
HowardTexas, Florida State, Penn State, and Miami have already
visited LES on one-and-ones.Utah never has and never will have the
national cachet to attract teams like that to RES.Elite teams just
won't play in cute little stadiums like U have on the hill.btw, BYU
plays 7 home games this season. That's 20,000 x 6 + 65,000 = 185,000 MORE fans
that will be visiting LES. Tickets, plus concessions, plus BYU gear, $1m to
$2.5m per game. A fair chunck of change to console BYU while we're beating up on
our friends from the hill.Enjoy your PAC 12 anonymity!
HowardI'd be interested for you the cite a single instance where a
college football team was awarded a victory based on conference affiliation.Utes seem to have adopted the idea that conference affiliation counts in
some sort of scoring equation.You've still got to win them, my
friend. And if you don't win them you'll be joining that "elite" group
of major conference bottom feeders like Baylor, Rutgers, Indiana, Washington
State, Vanderbilt and Indiana.Getting paid big bucks to be a bottom
feeder won't comfort Utah fans one bit, especially when Utah fans are being
gouged to keep the Utes "competitive" -- 24% increase in ticket
prices, 8% increase in student fees... is just the beginning.
crowntown1Let me remind you when you played TCU at home and got
smoked. Let me remind you when you played Notre Dame on the road and
got smoked.Let me remind you when you played Boise State in Las
Vegas and got smoked.Let me remind you that all of that happened in
Utah's last 5 games!
Scenic view I wasn't done Then you got the Air Force game then you
got the TCU game then Perennial power Utah State!! and finally Nevada.
Let me remind you scheduling those home games against the big boys of College
football and getting ran is nothing to pound your chest about.
crowntown1BYU was a very young team, replacing all of their skill
position players, dealing with a failed two-headed QB experiment and a defensive
coordinator who quit on the team in Logan.What was Utah's excuse for
a once Top 5 team getting smoked by TCU, Notre Dame, and Boise State?Let me remind you that BYU is 2-0 versus Texas, 2-0 versus Oklahoma, has
beaten Notre Dame in Provo and in South Bend, has beaten Penn State in Provo,
and has beaten #1-ranked, defending national champion Miami in Provo.BYU isn't at all intimidated by the big boys of college football home, away,
or at a neutral site.
"2 games at Texas and 1 at LES is a 2 for 1 no matter how you try to spin
it."'Keep spinning the Texas 2 for 1. Someone might believe it
someday."Howard, I must admit that your ignorance is
jaw-dropping. This is true IF and ONLY IF the 2 and 1 was the same contract.
However, the SECOND contract, signed over a year AFTER the first contract, was a
separate and distinct contract. And that contract was a home/away, no matter
how you spin it.If you had a birthday last year and a birthday this
year, can you combine the two and honestly tell people you had no birthdays last
year and two birthdays this year?Oh yeah, and by the way, since in
the next three years the U travels to USC twice and USC travels to Utah once,
that's a 2 for 1, right?
crowntown1Even the "big boys" aren't immune to home
lossesRemember USC(11-2) versus Stanford(4-8) in the Colliseum?Final ScoreUSC 23 Stanford 24Which is worse, losing at
Florida State(10-4) 10-34 or losing at UNLV(2-10) 0-27?
To comment on the storyNotre Dame has been a proven Winner for years
and BYU has not. Notre Dame has produced several Heisman winners and National
Championships. If your commenting on here how you think these two programs are
the same, you know nothng of college football.
crowntown1If you can't distinguish between "SIMILAR" and
the "SAME", maybe you shouldn't be commenting at all.Proven WinnerNotre Dame - yesBYU - yes (since 1972, BYU has won
70.5% of its games)Heisman TrophiesNotre Dame - yesBYU -
yes (Ty Detmer)National ChampionshipsNotre Dame - yes (last
one in 1988)BYU - yes (1984)Perennial Top 25 FinishesNotre Dame - yesBYU - yes (17 since 1977, 50%)Multiple
College Football Hall of Fame InducteesNotre Dame - yesBYU - yes (6
players, 1 coach)National Network Television ContractNotre
Dame - yes (NBC)BYU - yes (8 years with ESPN)Private Religious
UniversityNotre Dame - yesBYU - yesNational FanbaseNotre Dame - yesBYU - yes (the majority of BYU's students and alumni
come from outside Utah)Numerous National Individual AwardsNotre Dame - yesBYU - yes (15 including the Heisman)Notre
Dame aren't the same, but, there are a lot of similarities.
By the way Washington state is not an elite, so enjoy that home and home.
@Riverton Cougar"...your ignorance is jaw dropping."********Insults are the last resort of one who has lost the debate, my
friend.Let me quote Bronco Mendenhall commenting on the Texas
series."From the outside, it could look like a 2-for-1, and in
reality, that's what it ends up being" DN August 20, 2010.Like
I said... 2 for 1.Oh, and in the fourth year USC will be at RES.
That's how a hoime and home series works.
Howard S,Call us the FIRST time Utah gets Notre Dame, Texas,
Oklahoma, Michigan, Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Georgia, Florida,
Florida State, Auburn, or Miami to come to RES under ANY conditions,
home-and-home, two-for-one, three-for-one, four-for-one, until then, you're all
talk, but no walk.NONE of the elite teams outside of the PAC 12
wants to play the Utes in RES, and USC is the only elite team in the PAC 12.Besides USC, which was the last PAC 12 team to win a concensus national
championship (#1 in AP AND Coaches poll)???
@Howard S1984 National Championship > BcS appearancesUtah needs a National Championship to sit at the adult table. If you want to
see what one looks like, come on down to Legacy Hall in Provo, UT to see one,
because you won't find one in SLC. Utah fans can be happy with being
the little fish in the PAC 10.2, but BYU has the ability to schedule it's own
games. Utah is completely dependent upon pac 10.2, where as BYU has the Man Card
in the state of Utah. Utah has the needy girlfriend personality: always thinks
people want to be her, but everyone is actually really annoyed by their constant
little man's disease.Utah can never be like their older, bigger
brother in Provo. Utah is a public university with mediocre academics, and tiny
stadium, which utah can't even fill up.BYU and our relationship with
ESPN will trump Utah's PAC 10.2 seller dweller, red headed step child treatment.
Btw, how much money is the pac10.2 giving utah this year? $0? Yep, red headed
step child comes to mind...Win a national championship Howard. Then
come talk. Go Cougars!
@anti BCSHere is the deal anti...A lot of major teams
will play BYU occasionally. And they may even come to LES occasionally.But, NONE of them will establish a long term series with BYU, and
certainly they will not invite BYU to join them a conference mates.Period... end of story.
@scenic viewRemind me how BYU did the last time they played ND, BSU,
and TCU.Oh right, 0-3.And playing those teams is going
to rocket the Cougars to independent national prominence?Yeah
@Cougar_Independence"Win a national championship Howard. Then
come talk."************Funny that when the Big Boys come
looking for a partner, all that Cougar glory meant absolutely nothing.Not even a sniff from a major conference. Maybe that old trophy
was just so dusty and corroded that they didn't recognize it.Weird.
re: Howard S.At least BYU has done something Utah never has,
defeated Notre Dame under the Golden Dome. Look sir, to compare Utah's program,
with its cozy little 45k stadium that has only experienced three sellout seasons
in history, to BYU's program, which arrived at the same spot about 35 years ago
is a joke. BYU IS the only other program that could pull off Independence.
Even Texas and Ohio State would struggle after a few years simply because they
are still, like Utah, geographically centered programs. Utah fans
need to chill out a bit, especially the ego. We in the know realize why Utah
was taken ahead of BYU and it has little to do with how great your academics are
(what a joke of an argument that one is). Clue sir, BYU would have been a real
grab for the conference and seven of the ten PAC-10 institutions wanted it that
way. In fact, the Athletic Departments at the three schools that said NO to BYU
would have wanted BYU over Utah.BYU has a national presence and
history that Utah will not have for at least two or three decades (if ever).
@Howard S."A lot of major teams will play BYU occasionally. And
they may even come to LES occasionally."Your argument is hollow
and meaningless when you consider that no major team outside the PAC 12 has ever
or will ever play Utah, not even occassionally, at RES.
@killarneyMy, my, my.... While the Collective considers
Howard S. a troll, they certainly have a lot to say about his comments. You would think if Howard's comments were meaningless, irrelevant, or if
they didn't touch on some troublesome truths they would be ignored, but the
Collective seems intent on replying to virually every point that little Howard
S. makes...Go figure... Here is the deal killarney...Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Utah was invited and BYU was not. Nothing
more to say.With regard to independent success, no school has proven
capable of success as an independent in the BCS era of college football.Notre Dame has a 58% winning record as a BCS independent. Army's and
Navy's records are even worse.Is that the level of success BYU
aspires to? Or, does BYU expect to succeed where others with greater resources
@Solomon Levi...sigh....Solomon, if Utah was as
irrelevant as you imply, why would they get the BCS invite instead of the might
(legends in their own minds) Cougars?jus' wonderin'...
Howard,I don't see how calling you out means I lost the
"debate". That quote by Bronco says it "looks" like a 2 for
1 and it is "basically" a 2 for 1 in the sense that over 3 years BYU
goes to Texas twice compared to Texas travelling once. But like I said, since
USC comes to Utah once in the next three years while Utah goes to USC twice,
that is "basically" a 2 for 1. But Texas signed a 1 for 1 with BYU.
It is what it is."Solomon, if Utah was as irrelevant as you
imply, why would they get the BCS invite instead of the might (legends in their
own minds) Cougars?jus' wonderin'... "Again, this
is under the assumption that there is absolutely nothing in the world besides
football. You will find very few people nationwide who believe the PAC not
inviting BYU had nothing to do with BYU's religion policies. "But they
appointed a Mormon, Michael Young, to be UW President". I know, I know.
But President Young isn't going to instate a no-Sunday play policy, is he? You
see the difference?
re: Howard S."if Utah was as irrelevant as you imply, why would
they get the BCS invite instead of the... Cougars?"I already
answered that question.Now, prove that Utah is relevant by
scheduling an elite team to come to RES or winning a trophy that means
something, like a National Championship or Heisman trophy. New Year's Bowl
trophies are only meaningful to teams that are incapable of reaching the
pinnacle of college football.
@HowardStill don't have a spot at the adult table yet. Sorry. No
national title in SLC. And no home games on ESPN!Go Cougars!
Howard S.BYU proved its relevance by announcing an 8-year contract
with ESPN, the World Wide Leader in Sports, the same day BYU declared its
Independence.There's not a Utah fan out there who can honestly say
they weren't bitterly disappointed when the PAC 12 football schedule was
announced and Utah was completely ignored by ABC/ESPN.First year of
Independence - SEVEN games and counting on ESPN for BYUFirst year in the
PAC 12 - ONE game, courtesy of the bone BYU threw to UtahNobody can
honestly say that Texas would have been completely ignored by ABC/ESPN if Texas
had joined the PAC 12 instead of Utah. Guaranteed, the Longhorns would have had
more games on ABC/ESPN than any other team in the PAC 12, including the
PAC 12 logic:Let's invite the team that will play on Sunday's. Utes get your sinful wish. Play in the PAC 12, play on Sunday's.BYU takes the higher road. Go Cougars!
HowardIf the mighty Utes (only in their minds) are really as
relevant as you claim, why hasn't a single Utah player ever been inducted into
the National College Football Hall of Fame?In fact, the ONLY Utah
representative in the College Football Hall of Fame is a coach who retired over
half a century ago, in 1949.