We are either in danger of creating a rhetoric of "LDS Gospel of Success
and Prosperity," or we already have.Not good.
Success and prosperity aren't good?Every political conflict in
history has ultimately been about success and prosperity. Politics is about who
gets what. A religion comes along that shows how to acheive those things for
all, without conflict, and we're supposed to hide it? Is the promise that
"inasmuch as ye keep my commandments, ye shall prosper in the land"
just empty rhetoric, or does it actually mean something? I think it is a very
powerful message to say that you can prosper without lying, cheating, stealing,
or fighting wars. We should share it with anyone and everyone who will listen.
I think the critics of the church create enough rhetoric of the church, it's
belief and it's members.At least this isn't a bad stereotype to
Mormonism may be on the way to being selected for examination under the
magnifying glass. I doubt this will be good publicity or politics for the
We have been told by our prophets that the time has come for the Church to come
out of obscurity. That time is upon us. We are always taught to work hard,
become educated and be productive contributors and leaders in society. There is
nothing negative about the rest of the world finding out about this. Only
members who never miss a chance to find fault and criticize will find something
negative in this.
After looking at the artwork it makes me wonder how P-O'd many people would be
if the cover featured a Chinese man draping himself in the Stars and Stripes?
Flags of ALL nations should be respected.
@IMLDS2: who is the "we" in your declaration?@sergio: it
has been since 1820. Nothing new here.It's great that people are
being profiled in these types of articles.
Soon the whole world may convert over....and those of us on the inside may be
kicked out for pride. It happened in the Bible, it could happen again. Don't
think that it can't. Psalms 73:12---"Behold, these are the ungodly..who
prosper in the world." Where there is money, there is usually
contention and fatness. Most Mormons are poor.
Yes, because if Jesus were here today, I'm sure He'd be sitting on corporate
boards and covered by business magazines...
I applaud success but at the same time would love to see more of our young men
and women search for it in the arts and music and knowledge. Nothing against
wordliness--but I hope more people start to develop talents that we can take
with us beyond the grave.
While it's impressive for somebody to be so successful, we should not be drawing
parallels between their religion and their corporate positions. Otherwise, we
make the mistake of equating wealth with righteousness, which has the inverse
message of stating if you aren't wealthy, you must not be righteous enough, and
if you aren't righteous, you must not be wealthy.There is not a
single part of the Christian gospel which promises or guarantees financial
success in this life if you adhere to it; God's glory, and God's rewards, have
never been of this world.There are far more returned missionaries
who aren't on corporate boards, or making six figures. I would wager there are
just as many returned missionaries living in squalor and poverty as there eating
from silver platters with silver spoons in their mouths.If the same
logic is to be applied there, should we argue that they are also in those
positions due to their church membership?
One of the things that I learned was a singleness of purpose. This can often be
a very useful ability.
Service has many benefits; sometimes obvious, always valuable.
One of the greatest Welfare systems for people around the world functions in the
LDS Church. The contributions donated by those same businessmen for the welfare
and relief of those less fortunate in the world should also be noted by the
magazines publishers who speak of their successes. A mention should also be
noted of the thousands of senior missionary couples who, because of their hard
work and earned ability to pay for their service, have served or are now serving
in hundreds of communities around the world. That includes business executives,
blue collar workers, doctors, lawyers, university professors, teachers,
scientists, community leaders, engineers etc., etc. They pay their own expenses.
They teach English, they provide clean water to thousands, they help administer
huge amounts of disaster relief, they allow the lame to move about through
wheelchair donations, they provide medical care, equipment and critical
surgeries and other vital services that give relief to millions. Those services
are possible due to the contributions of LDS church members who practice the
Christian teachings which they believe. Their lifetime successes make all of
RE: Charles, You post "@sergio: it has been since 1820. Nothing new
here". I agree with you, but I think as time goes on what is making the
difference is that now there is much more information and better investigative
tools to determine realities and truths; and it is much more difficult for
censorship and glossing over of the facts and consequences. The world is
becoming better informed and educated, and not as easily decieved as past
Then why don't we just get Anthony Robbins and Zig Zigler to represent the
Church?No, we do not want people believing the false doctrine that
becoming a member of the Church will make them successful and prosperous (like
Scientology).Jesus (who trumps Nephi or any other Book of Mormon
writer) said:"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them
that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which
despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your
Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the
good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matt. 5:44-45)No, God does not make successful and prosperous those who are obedient
to him, nor are those who are successful and prosperous more
"righteous" than those who are not. This is NOT the gospel of success
and prosperity. It is NOT simply an MLM operating under the guise of religion.
You can't take leadership beyond the grave? I love how many LDS members
perceptions vary. However, the fact that business is evil and a waste of time is
a skewed perspective.
This notion (that RM's have any kind of edge in the business world) sounds
logical but is a bunch of bunk. The business world is full of driven people
willing to sacrifice and work hard to achieve their goals. I worked (for many
years) at one of the firms mentioned in the article, and the RM's did no better
and had nothing on anybody else. If anything, they were more accustomed to (and
comfortable with) failure than their peers, which cuts both ways.
And by the way, Independent, I never said prosperity and success were not good.
The point is that prosperity and success are not guaranteed by Church
membership. Try to read more carefully next time.
I've never seen a bunch that frets more about what the media they so hate says
Not sure what value this article has. The Church Of Jesus Christ is there to
help us be better followers of Christ. God cares just as much for a Christlike
man that happens to be a garbage man, as he does a CEO of a company. The idea
that if a man has money, then he is a "truer" man is not in the LDS
Doctrine. More Money does not Equal More blessings. Most times, money and power
destroys. Its a huge man that doesnt let power go to his head. What we need is
more faithful people.. Not more CEO's
I want to make a clarification on what this article is saying. It is saying
that being a Missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is
helps to prepare the individual for a place in the business world. It doesn't
even come close to saying that the individual is more righteous or even rich. I
have known many of these individuals who have gone on and become quite
successful because of the training and experience of being a missionary. The
same thing can be said of an individual who becomes an Eagle Scout. It is the
preparation, the work ethic and the other intangibles that prepares them to
fulfill such positions.It appears to me that those of you who are
trying to make more out of this story are either judgemental or jealous of these
individuals. In no way does it make them more righteous than the other. Look
at many of the members of the Quroum of the Twelve and you will find many of
them are at or near the top of their professions. Each of them sacrified more
of this to become members of this group of special witnesses.
I think young people who serve a mission, for the most part, come away from that
experience refined in some way. A mission helps them gain a stronger testimony,
learn how to speak to people, study, express themselves, become goal oriented
and focus. I don't think a mission makes a person a leader but it probably does
help those who naturally have that gift build on it.
RE Bill in Nebraska Bill, I think what bothers me is that LDS
people use this sort of press to Gloat. We love to find articles about #1 in
Health, #1 in literacy, #1 in business.. Putting ourselves up on a pedestal.
What difference do those thing make? I vote nothing.. We have our problems just
like everyone else. I would like to think of LDS people as the most kind,
tolerant, serving people anywhere.. Instead, we are often labeled as shrewd in
the business world and very judgmental and clannish. (at least here in Utah, not
the same on the outside)Id rather be labeled as a kind and considerate
Christian and be lousy at business. I dont blame the Newsweek
article, I blame our reaction to it. Its the sort of prosperity Christianity
that I object to.. God cares very little about money or popularity.. He cares
about our hearts.
Craigo:"Id rather be labeled as a kind and considerate
Christian and be lousy at business. "Well sure, so would I.
But since when do I need to be a spendthrift to be compassionate? It just so
happens that kind and considerate Christians who work hard and live their
religion (including giving to the poor and needy) statistically speaking tend to
prosper. No, I am not saying or implying that being rich is equivalent to
righteousness. What I am saying is that, on the whole, prosperity is a general
outgrowth of Gospel living. It frequently happens without seeking for it.Those who are blessed with the good things of this world through honest
work and fair dealing should have no shame in their success. Self-loathing for
success achieved will not suffice for humility. What will make us humble is to
realize that everything we have is the Lord's and was entrusted to us by Him.
We are stewards. As stewards, we should be grateful, be modest, then turn
around and seek to bless the lives of others and build up the kingdom,
Craigo:""We love to find articles about #1 in Health, #1
in literacy, #1 in business.. Putting ourselves up on a pedestal. "Sure "we" love to find articles on health, literacy, etc. So
what? Why is it that a brief high five exchange online is now become a swan
dive off the edge of a Nephite pride cycle? Come on.
re: KJB1 | 9:41 p.m. June 10, 2011 Heaven forbid that LDS times go
into something "faith shaking" like the humanities or the hard
sciences. Its much easier to get an MBA with dreams of being a god on Wall St
& settling for being Pres/Founder of yet another MLM along the Wasatch
Front. re: I M LDS 2 | 12:40 p.m. June 11, 2011 Agreed.
Truthfully, its sad to see this prosperity gospel (God wants you to be rich)that
types like Osteen & his ilk are promoting creep into the LDS mindset (No,
Joel. God wants us to be happy). Sadly IMO, there are some of the
true believers here in Zion who think that secularly credible that they need to
have the biggest penthouse at the top of the great and spacious bldg.
I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to serve an LDS mission. It was a life
changing experience that brought much of me out of me. Prior to my mission I was
a very closed person. I viewed myself and the world through the harshness of an
immature mind. I was afraid to speak up for anything. I talked about doing right
because it was expected. I had no understanding of human weakness, though I was
the weakest. My mission helped me to grow tolerant of myself, I
started the work of forgiving myself, and growing into a person didn't just talk
about righteousness, but actually wanted to do it. My experience was between me
and my God. My success depended upon my choices, faith and seeking answers. My
parents could not do it for me. As a result, I grew to understand I could hold
my own. It was on my mission that I stopped fearing the Gospel of
Christ and started loving it. Where I learned that my fondest buried dreams were
true. I saw tremendous examples of faith in simple saints. My ability to love
and see others with God's eyes was born.
This is quite a leap. Generalization anyone?Are there over 50,000
new MBA's each year from RMs? No.Are there over 50,000 new CEO's each
year from RMs? No.Some do go on to do big things, many, if not most
just go on.
The lowest activity rate and highest dropout rates in the Church are among the
RM age group. Generally, a large proportion of people who come back from
missions go inactive almost immediately. That is the trend, and it has been for
decades. It is of great concern to Church leaders, who are redefining YSA
congregations, resurrecting programs, encouraging marriage, and trying to
leverage social media to stop the exodus. So, No, missions do not necessarily
make "successful leaders" out of all, or even most, missionaries.
It really isn't that difficult to figure out. Depending on where you serve a
mission any number of things can be asked of you from serving as a branch
president to having more meetings with leadership than you care to have. Having
served a mission it is very hard to not come away with some type of management
and leadership skills its just a part of the job and combine that with all the
talk and service you give in two years it is in many ways a baptism by fire.
Ordinary young men are given large responsibilities and they deal with it the
best they can.
While I value the experiences of my mission, my impression, at that time was
that my mission president and Heavenly Father would love me more if I worked
harder and had baptisms. I felt "less than" because I had "no
Mormon pedigree whatsoever". I become more focused on the "doing"
as if some magic points would help me get to heaven. It wasn't until many many
years later that I realized that Heavenly Father would love me because I am his
daughter, period. The mission does put a lot of pressure to "perform"
and sometimes make a name for yourself and that probably translates to a
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught there are three basic types who will find it
challenging entering into the Celestial Kingdom, they are:- the
wealthy- the intellectuals- the beautifulIf
that's true, then I figure I got a pretty good chance of making it, since I'm
poor, dumb, and ugly.