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Brad Rock: BYU-Utah Utes rivalry not going quietly in the night

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  • bigsoccer Syracuse, UT
    June 7, 2011 4:12 p.m.

    I for one am all for BYU vs Utah to stay a little nasty, maybe not so much hatred between fans, I want people to know that BYU vs Utah is one of the best if not the best rivalry in college football.

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 4:13 p.m.

    Ridiculous back and forth from both sides. Ready, set, GO.

  • BigVic Holladay, UT
    June 7, 2011 4:33 p.m.

    I love the rivalry, even if it gets a little heated. People may say or do dumb stuff, on both sides, but most people realize where the line is. The rivalry makes family gatherings and hangin' around the water cooler more interesting.

  • Starfarer Mesa, AZ
    June 7, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    I've said it before...

    I am completely apathetic towards the U. I don't care what they do, who they play, or what deal they have. The only time I do care is when they play BYU. (and to defend BYU from haters on the boards.)

    I have never read a U article and I have never commented on their boards.

    I root for my Cougs.

    What I don't understand is U trolls who not only read articles about BYU, but comment on everything BYU. They say that Hate is the opposite of Love, but it's not it apathy.

    Ute trolls who must comment on everything BYU must have a secret love affair with BYU or they would just leave it alone (apathy). Since they can't, it just proves that they love BYU.

    Admit it, or go away. That's all I'm askin...

  • Hondo Alpine, UT
    June 7, 2011 4:42 p.m.

    Slow news day, here. Move along. They are trying to get people to start the same tired back and forth.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 7, 2011 4:45 p.m.

    Starfarer, ignorance is bliss.

  • bigutefan Las Vegas, NV
    June 7, 2011 4:51 p.m.

    Well Star....if you did read the Utah articles you would see dozens of byu people making comments, get off your high horse. Look, its a divorce, and I'm just happy my team is making out better and coming out on top in the long run.

  • flynn is the coolest Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 5:06 p.m.

    The animosity towards BYU partially comes from those whose grades weren't up to par to get accepted to a BYU undergrad program- but were welcomed with open arms at the U. Some think it's a "holier than thou" attitude, but really it's a "smarter than thou" attitude.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 5:26 p.m.

    Of course there will be Utah fans and perhaps even a few Utah State fans that want to see this end, and that a school that will not play on Sunday will NEVER be invited to a league like the Big-12, or that the LDS Church leadership will never allow such a move. But "Rock-On" BYU will find its way there sooner than later and this rivalry might just end up being on the same scale as Georgia vs. Georgia Tech (SEC vs. ACC), Florida vs. Florida State ditto leagues)...or Clemson vs. South Carolina (same 2 leagues). The west needs this sort of an intense cross-league rivalry. As far as garage sales, I think Utah State fans better plan on it since the program at BYU isn't going away or getting smaller any sooner...no pun intended!

  • man of few words Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 5:50 p.m.

    Tomahawk ... I guess U would know....

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 7, 2011 6:36 p.m.

    "I am all for formally ending any U/BYU competition."

    Counter Intelligence,

    I couldn't agree with you more.

  • UtahUte16 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 7:03 p.m.

    I personally think the rivalry is going to get stronger. What were we fighting for last time? Bragging rights to winning the Mountain West? Much more is on the line for bragging rights. There is a completely new dynamic and I'm interested to see how it unfolds. Both Utah and BYU are on their way up in the college football landscape, and the state of Utah will benefit greatly. I'm excited to see how the feel of a third week game will be instead of a late November game.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 7, 2011 7:32 p.m.

    I say end the Utah/BYU rivalry.

    With all the exposure that independence brings to BYU I would think that the Utah game could be easily replaced with Florida, Alabama, Oregon, Nebraska, or any number of top level schools clamoring for a chance to share the limelight with BYU.

  • Jeff ls Farr West, 84404
    June 7, 2011 7:40 p.m.

    As a long time season ticker holder I am all for ending all competition between the schools. Utah and gone their way and I wish them luck. I think Whit is a great coach. BYU has chosen their direction and I like it. I would rather see a national schedule like what is coming over the next couple of years. The game with Utah is just blocking a schedule with a long list of great teams with great tradition. We will be playing teams and places that Utah can't even dream of playing with or at. End it now.
    Jeff

  • Griz Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 8:18 p.m.

    @bigcutefan
    "I'm just happy my team is making out better and coming out on top in the long run."

    Going 6-6 in the Pac 10+2 and playing in the Emerald Bowl is the top now? I guess it's nice to have something to look forward to.

  • bigdaddy Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 8:26 p.m.

    @utahute16
    "Much more is on the line for bragging rights"

    Yes, like finishing 7th in the Pac 10.2. Woohoo!

    @Blowhard S
    "With all the exposure that independence brings to BYU I would think that the Utah game could be easily replaced with Florida, Alabama, Oregon, Nebraska, or any number of top level schools clamoring for a chance to share the limelight with BYU"

    In a NY minute. The replacement is sitting on a waiting list now. But don't worry, BYU will always be willing to toss you a bone, just like this season when they offered you your only game guaranteed on ESPN2 (national TV) and not a regional broadcast on Fox Sports Nortwest or Versus.

    S'funny, ESPN felt the Utah St game was worthy of a spot on their main channel (ESPN) but for the Utah game it got shoveled to their secondary channel (ESPN2). Eh, at least it's one game that your fans all over the country are sure to be able to see. You're welcome Ute fans. Bwahahahahahaaha!

  • Floyd Taylorsville, UT
    June 7, 2011 8:33 p.m.

    End it now.

    The intensely negative sentiments from all sides of the rivalry are entirely out of character with the mission, message and image of BYUs sponsoring institution.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 7, 2011 9:05 p.m.

    Jeff Is:

    "BYU has chosen their direction and I like it. I would rather see a national schedule like what is coming over the next couple of years. The game with Utah is just blocking a schedule with a long list of great teams with great tradition."

    There are 50 states in the union, but a full 1/3 of your schedule reaches into Utah and Idaho. Way to go Magellen! And what "tradition" were you speaking of with respect to San Jose St, New Mexico St, and UCF?

    Admit it. You're not really happy with the direction your team is going. You envy Utah's program, schedule, and multi-million dollar television package.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 7, 2011 9:10 p.m.

    BYU will always have the upper hand in the state of Utah. Private, LDS university, high moral and high academic standards. Compare that to Utah: public, non-religious university, mediocre academics, mediocre morals.

    BYU has an exclusive deal to be on ESPN for all their home games, and Utah is a really small fish in a big pond called the PAC 10.2. Utah's move will only diminish their level of importance and relevance in a conference much higher than them.

    Question: can Utah beat USC, Oregon, Stanford, Cal, Arizona, and ASU all in the same season? Answer: No.

    Compare that to BYU's schedule this year: every game is winnable.

    Go Cougars!

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 7, 2011 9:13 p.m.

    @Naval vet

    "You envy Utah's program, schedule, and multi-million dollar television package."

    Yes, I wish BYU was on Versus and regional Fox Sports Net for all the home football games!

  • BaneOfHedgehog Bothell, WA
    June 7, 2011 9:14 p.m.

    End it! There's absolutely no benefit to BYU that couldn't be accomplished by scheduling dozens of other national programs instead an also-ran in the PAC-whatever. I'm with the other poster - entirely apathetic about the red team. Perhaps strangely however, I would absolutely root for the Aggies when my Cougs aren't playing them.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 7, 2011 9:18 p.m.

    I don't care one way or the other.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 7, 2011 9:35 p.m.

    Rivalries are based on two teams going for the same prize. That won't happen anymore between BYU and Utah.

    Therefore, as their paths continue differently, rivalry talk will lessen, trolls will finally grow up and find something better to do, and youngsters in a few decades will wonder what people are talking about.

    However, make the BYU-Utah football game the last in the season for both teams and THEN there's something to fight about, especially if one or both teams has a record going that'll get them into a BCS bowl.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    June 7, 2011 10:17 p.m.

    Naval Vet | 9:05 p.m. June 7, 2011
    Philadelphia, PA

    "Way to go Magellen!"

    "Admit it. You're not really happy with the direction your team is going. You envy Utah's program, schedule, and multi-million dollar television package."
    ===

    Admit what. You have a point of view...

    It's just not even a civil conversation anymore.

    Would anyone enjoy visiting with people like Naval at work?

    I agree with Hedgehog.

    End it.

  • Katiebugg Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 10:26 p.m.

    It seems to bring out the boy in many of the posters ... and that's not a good thing.

  • Deep Thoughts Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 10:29 p.m.

    As long as we share a paper, I don't see certain posters giving up their obsessive sniping and chest-thumping on the other team's articles. It's a reflection of their own personalities and characters more than the rivalry or either program. This is just the outlet. Some folks act aggressively and rudely behind the wheel and others behind a keyboard....

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    June 7, 2011 10:35 p.m.

    hedgehog

    You say that you are all for ending any competition, but you also said that you were going to leave us in your rearview mirror and not give BYU a second thought once your Utes were in the Pac-whatever. And yet, I still read your negative comments on almost every BYU article. If we agreed never to play Utah in ANY sport, would that really change anything for you?

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    June 7, 2011 10:36 p.m.

    Naval:

    Jealous of the U? I am certain I am as jealous of your 2 BCS victories as you are of our National Championship.

    Would we like to have been invited to the PAC? Yes. Is Independence turning out as good as we hoped. So far, so good, better even.

    Jealous? You must be wishful thinking. Other than the 3rd week in September, we won't think about you except as forced to by trolls. We already don't think about you during basketball season any more.

  • CaliforniaCougar Lake Elsinore, CA
    June 7, 2011 11:24 p.m.

    BYU, the University of Utah.

  • ATL_UTE Atlanta, GA
    June 7, 2011 11:38 p.m.

    When Brigham Young got to the top of that hill, he pointed to a place where the University of Utah currently stands, and said, "This is the place." Provo has always been an afterthought.

  • MAFU Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2011 11:43 p.m.

    @ Coug Indy

    The high academic and moral standards of BYU grads that ye speak of has been on full display lately with ByU Alumnus Bentley of Bachelorette fame. He is bringing great exposure to the Y. I will gladly take the non-religous university with so-called mediocre academics and morals, than the MLM & Ponzi Scheme U you so glowingly support.

  • 9er4life Provo, UT
    June 8, 2011 12:05 a.m.

    If Boise St stayed in the WAC and byu goes indy, do you think byu will be getting that espn deal? I don't think so. Espn would love to have Boise St get out of the MWC and rejoin the WAC so they can showcase them every week. Boise St have been the darling of espn for the past decade and they hope replacing Boise St TV schedule with the y will not hurt their ratings.

    I really don't understand why going the indy route is so great as many y fans have pointed out. Playing all these football games are in a way meaningless. In any given year, you are not playing for a conference championship at a chance for bcs/championship game each year. Isn't that the point of college football is to win it all? Yes, you're flying all over the country to play a couple of big name teams for exposure but your home games consist of mediocre wac teams. You may beat teams like San Jose St and New Mexico St but not so with Fresno St, Nevada, or Utah St. Exposure can be achieve through other means than football.

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    June 8, 2011 12:29 a.m.

    This too big for the rival PAC 12 stuff is interesting. I think some Utah fans might need to travel more or move out of the 801 area code for the 1st time in their lives. BYU was relevant long before your Utes ever were and have consistently been so for over 30 years. I'm a Notre Dame alum and fan and was absolutely baffled by the crowd Utah brought to our game last fall. There I was expecting to meet a humble, respectful crowd akin to the crowds we have seen when BYU has visited over the years. Utah comes to town and shows an arrogance I haven't seen since Miami in the 80's (at least Miami had national titles). Even Utah's band was disrespectful. And for what? Two bowl victories? C'mon Utah, you can do better than that. Call us when your Utes win a trophy that's worth something. Until then, all you are is Boise State.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    June 8, 2011 2:20 a.m.

    Flynn is the Coolest says, "The animosity towards BYU partially comes from those whose grades weren't up to par to get accepted to a BYU undergrad program- but were welcomed with open arms at the U. Some think it's a "holier than thou" attitude, but really it's a "smarter than thou" attitude."

    As a BYU graduate and a lifelong Mormon, I believe BYU fans have both "holier than thou" and "smarter than thou" attitudes. Both are offensive.

    I was talking sports with a buddy of mine who is a lifelong Wyoming fan. He said "Colorado State is our rival, but we dislike BYU more than everyone else. We don't like that they are better than us in sports, but what really makes us dislike them is they believe they are better PEOPLE than we are."

    I have always respected the athletes and coaches at BYU. I've looked up to many of them as role models. They represent their univeristy and the LDS Church well in almost every instance. But in my opinion, BYU athletics would be a much better "missionary tool" if the Cougar fans had to comply with a gag order.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    June 8, 2011 6:11 a.m.

    @ ATL_UTE

    You are right....just finish the quote. The next thing he said was "Drive on".

    You see had to pass up on that place on the hill and move more southward.

  • Old Gregg Alpine, UT
    June 8, 2011 7:05 a.m.

    @MAFU,

    you watch the Bachelorette? Is that show on Versus or is it on a national channel? Oh nevermind, even if it is on my basic cable package I still wouldn't watch it. I'd rather watch BYUtv!

    As far as the rivaly goes, it's not going to slow down. I think both teams will have enough success that it will keep things heated and interesting, even at the beginning of the year.

  • GJ Greenwood, IN
    June 8, 2011 7:26 a.m.

    9er4life
    "your home games consist of mediocre wac teams"

    You are so right, but they have to have balance in their schedule. BYU can't play top 25 teams every week or they would burn out. That's why they've scheduled "mediocre wac teams" like Utah for their "home" games.

  • Honor Code Denver, Colorado
    June 8, 2011 7:32 a.m.

    Sorry BYU fans but the "Rivalry" between the two schools will lose interests because neither belong to the same conference. If anything, Utah and CU (Colorado) will be the next heated "Rivalry".

    BYU in the meantime will still be the most disliked school in the country!

  • Ldsfan South Jordan, UT
    June 8, 2011 7:43 a.m.

    It is silly that someone had to bring out the grade card. That is the reason why so many fans from all over the world loathe many at BYU with this attitude. Private schools attract kids from worldwide due to the environment and uniqueness. I applaud BYU's uniqueness. That niche attracts more kids than space allows. That is why BYU can be picky. UVU is more likely the feeder school to BYU.

    As an educator at Utah, we find that most students at Utah, Utah State, Dixie have students that chose their particular school. Those that wanted BYU usually couldn't go due to lack of money and availability to grants. BYU is expensive compared to state schools. Once you are at these schools, there is no difference in teachers, professors, facilities, etc. Undergraduate studies at BYU compared to Utah are equal. Graduate degrees and schools at Utah are not even close when compared to BYU as Utah simply offers more and better programs.

    The rivalry will remain strong. Over half the state is a fan of BYU. A much higher percentage of readers on Dnews are BYU fans based on the small poll today.

  • Lone Star Cougar Plano, TX
    June 8, 2011 8:08 a.m.

    I found Killarney's observation very interesting. A third party has advised on what he has seen in looking at both schools.

    U of U management, did you read this? Even as a BYU fan, this hurts and is a black eye for all schools from Utah.

  • flintrock Rigby, Id
    June 8, 2011 8:21 a.m.

    The last ten years

    Utah BCS games invited to 2
    Utah BCS games won 2

    BYU BCS games invited to 0
    BYU BCS games won 0

    BYU is a barking dog with no teeth

  • silverstateute Las Vegas, NV
    June 8, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    Sorry, Rock, a nice story but lame ending. "When it's all grown up"? Like this rivalry is in its infancy somehow? It's been around for years! I enjoy the rivaly. Family and extended family are all over the place. It's great fun!

    As far as the battle of the press releases, I think the Cougs "tapped-out" with its press release proclaiming 16 players were named to the pre-season all independence team!!! hahahahahahaha Beautiful!!!

  • GACougar Atlanta, GA
    June 8, 2011 8:51 a.m.

    End it, please. I live in Atlanta and could not care less about the Utes. And now that they are in the PAC 10.2 they are of even less interest to me. Why play a middle of the road PAC 10.2 team when you can play Georgia, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida or any of the other teams located within driving distance of Atlanta?

    Utah could only manage to win the mighty MWC once in six tries during Whittingham's tenure as coach. That tells me all I need to know about their future in the PAC. I see no benefit to continuing to play them. Maybe once every three or four years as long as the game is in Provo so that I can actually see it on national TV.

  • Lifelong Republican Orem, UT
    June 8, 2011 8:55 a.m.

    All I know is that I'm looking at the games on TV for next year. Right now it looks like I can watch BYU at least 8 (probably 10) times on espn. Once on BYUtv and maybe once on Fox when they play a pac 10 team.

    I think I will see Utah once (when they play BYU, thanks Cougars) and then maybe I can catch them when they play USC on VS. If I still get vs. on my new satellite deal.

    I think the Cougars will gladly end the rivalry after a season or two when they realize they can bring in a quality opponent that wants to be seen on espn.

    I'm sad for my utah friends that thought the pac10 invite was the end of their battle. I really thought it would turn out better for them. Now it looks like they are just there to plug up a few holes for the real teams.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2011 8:58 a.m.

    flintrock

    Bronco/Kyle era

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 4 (including 3 Top 15)
    Utah 2 (including 1 Top 15)

    Conference Championships
    BYU 2
    Utah 1

    Head-to-Head
    BYU 3
    Utah 3

    As killarny said, "Call us when your Utes win a trophy that's worth something."

    Utah is the ankle-biting little puppy trying to pretend he's a big dog.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    June 8, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    Pac12 new bylaw or clause: PAC-12 recently instituted a clause in its new television contract that prevents its member football programs from scheduling non-conference games beyond the first three weeks of the season. The only exception both USC & Stanford will continue their rivalry with Notre Dame. But all other schools must receive a waiver from all 12 athletic directors if they wish to play a non-conference opponent beyond the third week of the season.

    Did you here about that Brad? Do you favor that? This is almost like how this bcs came about when BYU won the NC. You think Kyle and Dr. Hill going to sit quiet for many years to come what the pac12 and other bigs trying to do. Urben Meyers did not favor bcs when he was a coach at the u and now he still keeps his mouth shut.

  • utesovertide Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2011 9:21 a.m.

    @Killarney,

    I was there at the ND game. I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone I saw dressed in red was respectful. The Ute fans and ND fans all around me had a good time and talked about the game and other things together.

    Thanks for judging an entire fan base on maybe a few isolated incidents which I hadn't heard anything about until your post today. Max Hall did the same thing and look where that got him.

    "Call us when your Utes win a trophy that's worth something."

    By the way, it was teams like ND that kept schools like Utah from ever winning an NC because of the way power is brokered in college football, so that comment seems a bit arrogant. Now that we've broken into that upper echelon, we at least have a chance to win it now.

  • regis Murray, UT
    June 8, 2011 9:36 a.m.

    I don't think this rivalry will cool down. These teams are only 40 miles apart, and fans of each are in every workplace, neighborhood and church all along the Wasatch Front. So they'll continue to get in each other's face after every victory/loss.

    The only way it would cool off is if one team or the other becomes completely dominant to the point it is no longer an issue who will win or lose. But I can't really imagine that happening.

    And as to the question whether BYU unethically went after Sharp -- the answer is yes.

  • Ravenal Somewhere in, Utah
    June 8, 2011 9:37 a.m.

    I can't believe I'm agreeing with hedgehog on this one; end the rivalry.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 8, 2011 9:39 a.m.

    Well one school teached the world is 6,000 years old and the eqyptian writing was written by someone else.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 8, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    @9er4life

    You could not be more wrong.

    BYU was the first team (with Pittsburgh) to ever play an ESPN College Football game. At a time when BSU was not even a D-1 school.

    In 2000 (01), long before BSU was a blip on the map, BYU was on ESPN 8 times.
    Just like this year.

    No, Boise actually took BYU's long held spot of 20 years, on ESPN telecasts, (though not seen as often as BYU) after the MWC signed the disaterous mtn. TV deal.

    History did not begin with Boise St., Sorry.

    When Boise St. has a NC, Heisman, Outlands, 60 All-americans, 14 Consensus, 7 Hall of Famers, etc. then we can chat.

    Until then, is it not just ironic, that BYU is back with ESPN and BSU has assumed BYU's spot on the mtn. tv, never to be seen or heard from again?

  • hohum Saint George, UT
    June 8, 2011 9:52 a.m.

    DEW has it right. These conferences do not wan their teams to play outside their precious bcs conferences as this could be devastating to their bcs poll. Remember bcs wins against an 0 and 10 bcs team is worth more than a win against say 8-2, 9-1, team outside the bcs. This is all of the protection that the bcs has itself and self preservation. It will end.

    The Y will be able to excell and there will be many who will want to play them, even late in the season.

    It appears the U has it's schedule dictated by the big boys of the pac10. Their best bet for a rivalry = Colorado, wow, two bottom feeders trying hard to stay out of the cellar.

    What happens when USC and UCLA go independent? No championship game, then what.

  • man of few words Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2011 9:57 a.m.

    Honor Code

    You mean to say that you will continue to obsess about BYU even though you are a Ute and USC fan and post negative, derisive comments on every article just like you do now. Your past actions generally indicate your future behavior.

    Well, at least you've stopped trying to convince us that you are a Cougar fan. That was ridiculous indeed!

  • man of few words Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2011 10:09 a.m.

    MAFU

    I guess from your comment that you watch the Bachelorette. I gladly admit that I don't and therefore do not know what you are talking about.

    You go on to say that BYU Alumni and students "glowingly support" MLMs and Ponzi Schemes. I thought the point of an education was to broaden one's mind so that they don't make sweeping generalizations based on bigotry and prejudice.

    You also stated, " I will gladly take the non-religous university with so-called mediocre academics and morals." Considering the rest of your statements, I'm not even going to comment on that one.

    Remember, MAFU, you're representing YOUR students and alumni.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 10:19 a.m.

    Keep the rivalry. The childish antics of Duckhunter, Chris B, hh, sammyg, and others on these boards are not indicators of fans as a whole. These guys are just extreme outliers. None of them has a lick of common sense.

    Most fans are sensible and just want to enjoy the game.

    The Des News has failed miserably in its quest for civil dialogue on these forums.

  • manaen Buena Park, CA
    June 8, 2011 10:20 a.m.

    I'm just happy to see a Mormon Pope in Provo.

  • softbear Olympia, WA
    June 8, 2011 10:29 a.m.

    Who are we kidding, whether your a Ute or a Cougar, this game will go on forever. Why!! They call them alumni! These are the people that will demand they keep playing for many reasons. 1. They like it. 2. Money (not just TV money but money spent in the community when the game comes to town, no other game will bring those out of town numbers, therefore the merchants will never allow this game to die). 3. Pride 4. Coverage for both teams, the Utes will want the exposure the Y can give them. 5. Loyalty to the state which needs the game, no other sporting event in the state draws more attention. 6. Tradition--every state has a rivilary, why would Utah be any different.

    I'm a Y fan and I'm happy for the U. Hopefully they'll do great in the Pac 12 as hopefully independence will prove to be just what the Y needed. Either way this game will go on, just to much outside influence to see it does.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 8, 2011 10:45 a.m.

    @killarney

    " I'm a Notre Dame alum and fan and was absolutely baffled by the crowd Utah brought to our game last fall...Utah comes to town and shows an arrogance I haven't seen since Miami in the 80's"

    Well now you know what the rest of us have known for a looooong time.

    @utah'95

    "I was talking sports with a buddy of mine who is a lifelong Wyoming fan. He said "Colorado State is our rival, but we dislike BYU more than everyone else."

    That is now my favorite quote ever posted on these boards. A utah "fan" and a wyoming "fan" discussing their hate for BYU. Undoubtedly the two most classless fanbases in all of college athletics. LOL. Yes that was awsome. LOL! And the best part is you posted it like it actually has meaning. So BYU is hated by the two lowest fanbases in all of college athletics. LOL! I love it!

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    June 8, 2011 10:49 a.m.

    Don't "end" the rivalry, Utah, change it. The "rivalry" used to be USU - Utah. Then it became Utah - BYU after Lavell Edwards came to town and Utah won once or twice every decade. Now it needs to be Utah - Colorado. BYU gains nothing by beating Utah except another 'W' for the year; just like Utah State who wishes they could finally join the big boys but still don't make the grade. They're just perennially mediocre, with a break out win occasionally.

    I've already "toned down" the rivalry---I REFUSE to attend the BYU-Utah game in SLC. I fear for my safety as I've witnessed the behaviour or rabid Utah fans and their "security" turn their heads, and this started years ago. If we only played in Provo I'd maybe get more excited about it but beating Utah accomplishes very little....for anyone. You might as well beat Washington State.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    June 8, 2011 10:55 a.m.

    utesovertide

    "I was there at the ND game. I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone I saw dressed in red was respectful. The Ute fans and ND fans all around me had a good time and talked about the game and other things together."

    Many Utah fans are simply blind to the fact that they have abusive, offensive, boorish fans among them.

    Max was wrong to characterize all Utah fans that way, but he was spot on about a sizeable group of Utah fans.

    And it doesn't end with Utah fans. Utah's team and coaches behave in the same way, mouthing off and picking fights with the other team.

    --last year's Las Vegas Bowl and all of the player mouthing off and fight picking by Utah

    --Kyle's famous on-side kick versus Wyoming when leading by a gazillion points

    --beer pouring incidents at RES

    --Utah fans unleashing an endless string of profanities during Bronco's post-game interview at RES last season

    Utah fans who turn a blind eye to the behavior in RES can't complain when they're tarred by the backlash.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 10:56 a.m.

    duckhunter and toosmartforyou went above and beyond to demonstrate my point there. very well done. as an active member of the LDS faith, it honestly makes me laugh to think that "The Lord's University" is represented by trailer trash like that.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    PAC man,

    I am sure you are just as adamant about the poor behavior of the just as sizable chunk of BYU fans?

    right?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:06 a.m.

    @chris bryant

    "duckhunter and toosmartforyou went above and beyond to demonstrate my point there. very well done. as an active member of the LDS faith, it honestly makes me laugh to think that "The Lord's University" is represented by trailer trash like that."

    Dante' reserved the lowest level of hell for hypocrites. With good reason.

    yea you're really above the fray. LOL!

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:12 a.m.

    @ Chris Bryant

    BYU is not the "Lord's University"---it is the University the Lord's Church owns. The Lord's University takes a recommend to enter, not a student body card. And yes, there is a big difference.

    I'm sorry that you can't accept the fact that beating Utah really has nothing to it except bragging rights....and that's what Ute fans love to do....brag all about the years they were supposed to be national champs....only no one except Whittingham voted for them to be such. Nice....

    Utah's true rival really ought to be Colorado. If you knew anything about the PAC 12 you'd realize that # 11 and # 12 are natural rivals, geographically close to each other, both are State schools and each are "full" of themselves so they match perfectly. Save yourself from the conjured up disrespect of always having to say "team down south" and schedule someone who really wants to play U. May I suggest Weber State?

  • Cali Coug Visalia, CA
    June 8, 2011 11:19 a.m.

    I still get a giggle out of referencing the pac as the PAC 10.2. It has been months since it first appeared...love those Cougar fans.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:24 a.m.

    duckhunter,

    ha! too true. calling you names was hypocritical. my bad. I just don't understand your ups and downs. One day is praising utah players for their accomplishments and wishing them well (yesterday) and the next day its posts filled with "LOL!", predictions of doom and gloom, and mocking utah players. as they say, dante!

    toosmart,

    congrats, you win the "that response had almost nothing to do with what I said" award of the day. Stereotype much?

  • brluthi Provo, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:33 a.m.

    I don't even read the articles anymore. I get my entertainment from reading the ridiculous banter. If it were to end, I probably wouldn't miss it.

  • payara OREM, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:33 a.m.

    Keep the rivalry, Utah and BYU are like fighting brothers, its the fans that need to grow up.

    I have had beer dumped on me at Wyoming as well as at Utah. I will never take my wife to a game at either stadiam but I have no problems going myself. You can throw UNLV basketball into the pot as well. Max Hall said what every fan believes in their heart. Utah, Wyoming, and UNLV fans are classless.

    I do root for Utah when they play other teams (I am glad they made the big payday, they deserve it) because they represent the great state of Utah but that is where it ends. Their fans are low lifes.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:33 a.m.

    Chris Bryant

    "I am sure you are just as adamant about the poor behavior of the just as sizable chunk of BYU fans?"

    I'm a BYU fan and Utah alum. I've attended BYU-Utah games at RES and LES since the 70's. I've sat in the middle of the Crimson Club dressed in BYU gear during the famous Beck to Harline game and was generally well treated.

    But I've also been subjected to profanity and verbal abuse at many BYU-Utah games at RES.

    I'm not saying that all BYU fans are guiltless, but BYU fan misbehavior pales in comparison to what I've seen by Utah fans.

    I was at RES last season and watched a large group of Utah fans screaming obscenities and kicking snow at Bronco during his post-game press conference.

    I've seen Utah players cross the field en masse to confront BYU players near BYU's sideline before a game on many occassions.

    Bad behavior happens on both sides, but to pretend that it is equally distributed is naive. A sizeable portion of Utah fans are simply BYU haters; they only use Utah as their foil.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:41 a.m.

    @Chris Bryant

    I'll explain it to you. 1st of all I have nothing against the University of Utah or its athletes at all. I know many former athletes from there, I know many employees there and I perform alot of contracted work there. I actually have a cousin there that was recently named an All American in her sport.

    Until about 1 year ago I had never even read an article about u of u athletics. But the continual posts by such stellar utah "fans" as chris b, hedgehog, naval vet, howard s and others convicned me to return the favor. There is also the small matter of the absolutely abysmal behavior I have witnessed and been subjected to when I attended BYU/utah games at the university of utah.

    My issues are with the "fans" of the university of utah. Yes I know it isn't all of them, but there is a very large segment that are anti LDS bigots and lowlife trash and I have had enough. So I enjoy criticizing them and mocking them at every opportunity I get.

    Hope that explains it.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:43 a.m.

    BlueCoug,

    I don't understand the sensitivity when it comes to the Haka. The Haka is a war dance that is meant to intimidate. I have no problem with them doing it. However, since it is meant to intimidate, I am glad that the players refuse to get intimdated by it. If it bothers you, you need to grow some thicker skin.

    To say its equally distributed is not naive. You have a biased perspective. I was there in 2003 when Daniel Bobbick returned to play BYU. To this day, the venom that BYU fans showered this young man with (a returned missionary mind you) makes even the most obscene things Ive ever heard at Rice-eccles look like sunday school.

    I think you are naive if you think there are a lot of people who just cheer for utah beacuse they hate the Y. I also think you have your head in the sand if you think there is a large difference in percent of boorish fans.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:45 a.m.

    @toosmartforyou: You mention the rivalry used to be Utah State vs. Utah. Why not bring that back and just drop BYU? There are after all those who feel BYU athletics growth, particularly football has come at the expense of Utah State. Shouldnt the LDS Church discontinue athletics at BYU since they did up in Rexburg a decade ago?

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:48 a.m.

    Duck, makes sense. I actually agree wtih you. I get tired of the anti-mormon attitude at the U. In fact, it was not uncommon for me to defend BYU when I was up there. And I am with you, I think that chris b, hedge, howie, etc. are a joke. they embarass me.

    but I don't think that copying thier style makes you a better person, it actually makes you a........hypocrite.......dante?

  • UU702 Layton, UT
    June 8, 2011 11:59 a.m.

    At the end of the day on Sept. 17 Utah will still have 9 games remaining against BCS teams,a division and conference title to contend for, individual player honors to collect, etc. byu will still be headed to the armed forces bowl.
    byu served a purpose for Utah over the last 20 years, expectations were exceeded beyond what anyone could imagine and great memories were made on both sides. The game will become a quaint reminder of those years for however long it lasts.
    Utah will certainly move on literally and figureatively. byu...yet to be determined.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    June 8, 2011 12:00 p.m.

    Lone Star Cougar | 8:08 a.m. June 8, 2011
    Plano, TX
    "I found Killarney's observation very interesting. A third party has advised on what he has seen in looking at both schools."

    Killarney claim's his is a ND alum and fan, but does not mention his ties to Utah. Considering he's writing from Illinois, and reading the DN, there's a good chance he is Mormon. Finish it off with a scathing comment about the Utes and I surmise he has ties to BYU. Since he didn't state that, I can't say for sure. But that would make his "third party" comments suspect and biased. Particularly when there are other "witnesses" on here you disagree with his comments.

    I wouldn't take everything at such face value.

    I've been around long enough to know the hate and classlessness can come from both sides.

    flynn, for someone so "apathetic" you sure have strong feelings about this matter....

    Good luck to both schools.

  • Kaha Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2011 12:02 p.m.

    Fans on both sides really representing their teams well here. Class act.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 8, 2011 12:04 p.m.

    Chris Bryant

    I couldn't care less about the Haka. To me it's no different than players in basketball getting in a circle and jumping up and down before a game.

    As far as developing a thicker skin, you should be directing those comments to your thin-skinned Utes who don't seem to be able to handle watching a pre-game ritual occurring on the other side of the field.

    "I think you are naive if you think there are a lot of people who just cheer for utah beacuse they hate the Y."

    Who's being naive here?

    I know several "Utah fans" personally who don't follow Utah and hardly ever watch Utah games except when Utah is playing BYU. They couldn't care less about Utah except when Utah does something they can use to mock BYU.

    At the 2008 game in RES, one "Utah fan" spent the ENTIRE game with his back to the field screaming obscenities at the BYU fans seated 15 rows above him. The Utah fans sitting around us were embarrassed about his behavior, but not a single Utah fan did anything about it.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 8, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    re: SLC BYU Fan

    "Shouldnt the LDS Church discontinue athletics at BYU since they did up in Rexburg a decade ago?"

    Wishfull thinking from another BYU hater.

    The main reason the LDS Church dropped athletics at Ricks was because it was upgraded to university status, which meant BYU and BYU-I would have been competing with each other to sign players from the same relatively small talent pool; plus, the added expense of upgrading BYU-I to Division 1 status.

    The LDS Church uses BYU athletics as a missionary tool, and like everything else associated with "spreading the word", there will always be supporters and naysayers.

    It's interesting that the same bloggers who celebrate the occassional bad publicity associated with BYU athletics, also go out of their way to mock BYU's Honor Code, Bronco's pre-game firesides, and Bronco placing football 5th on his list of priorities.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 12:18 p.m.

    BlueCoug,

    do you see how this really isn't going to go anywhere? I know "BYU fans" who know nothing about what BYU is doing, but they cheer for them because they are LDS. They hate the U. of U. because its a liberal hot bed.

    I cant verify your story, and you can't verify mine. But you gotta open your eyes. There are problems with obnoxious and over the top fans at both schools. Are there more at one school than the other? I doubt it......and good luck proving it.

    Cast the mote out of thine own eye brother.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 12:19 p.m.

    *beam out of thine own eye. lol. botched that one.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    counter intelligence:

    ever been at a byu game and cheered for the other team? try it sometime and then come talk to me.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    June 8, 2011 12:36 p.m.

    @ Chris

    Well, I dropped off for a few minutes but I see where you are defending boorish behavior because it exists at both schools. Two years ago in Provo 2 Utah fans stood up in front of my wife and I and were politely asked to please sit down. They refused. Luckily we were able to move two rows. A lady behind us said, in the 3rd quarter after they both sat down for one play, "I finally saw an entire play." Everyone paid for their seat; if the Utah guys wanted to stand they should have crowded into the visitor's section where everyone was standing.

    In SLC in the 80's fans wrote obsenities on a BYU flag and taunted the band with it; a fight erupted and they injured a lady by falling on her while security ignored everything. I haven't beeen back and won't go there again. There are, incidentally, thousands more fans at BYU home games so the mix isn't equal. Utah has more than one problem at home. They just don't care about decorum or visiting fan's safety.

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    June 8, 2011 12:42 p.m.

    re: MiP

    "Killarney claim's his is a ND alum and fan, but does not mention his ties to Utah."

    My ties to Utah are friends from Utah, occassional business and college football trips to Utah, my respect for the Mormon community, and my passion for college football, which leads to me discussions about college football from many sources, including the DN. But I'm Irish Catholic and a staunch Notre Dame fan. Having personally attended every BYU-Notre Dame football game and with BYU joining the ranks of independents, I stopped by the DN to see what BYU fans were saying about their new independent status. From an outsider, I find the Utah fan put downs of BYU puzzling. BYU's been a major college football icon in the West for decades with numerous national accomplishments. Utah wins a couple of recent bowl games and suddenly the Utes are not only on par with BYU, but better? The BCS is nothing more than a failing experiment. It'll be replaced with a playoff someday and Utah will be left with a couple of new years bowl trophies, no more meaningful than any other Fiesta or Sugar bowl trophies.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 12:47 p.m.

    I am not defending anything. Boorish behavior should not be tolerated. If you ask someone to sit down, they should. BTW, I have had the exact same thing happen to me at RES with BYU fans. They refused to sit down when asked politely. Its annoying!

    My point, above all else is, there are problems at both schools. To say that it is worse at one school is inaccurate and it just shows that you have blinders on.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    June 8, 2011 12:51 p.m.

    --ever been at a byu game and cheered for the other team? try it sometime and then come talk to me.

    I've seen lots of fans cheering for opposing teams at BYU football and basketball games and the only ones I've ever seen have any problems are the ones who go out of their way to be obnoxious and in your face about it.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 8, 2011 12:56 p.m.

    Im officially tired of the back and forth. keep those blinders on!

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    June 8, 2011 1:01 p.m.

    I was best friends with Mikelly Wesley's little bro Russ. I was sitting by him at a BYU NIT game back in the Spring of 2000 when we both went to UVSC. He was of course cheering for the Y, and I was cheering for I believe Bowling Green or something. I cannot remember who they played that night. A ton of rabid Y fans wanted to beat me up for cheering for the other team. Fortuantely the Wesley family is a big bunch of dudes that had my back, even though I was cheering for the other team in the Marriot Center. The Y has just as many classless fans as the U does. Some U fans hate the Mormons and our religion, and some Y fans are all holier than Thou and think they are better than everyone else. It happens on both sides, and both sides have classless fans. It will never change, and this rivalry will always be heated. This game is all about bragging rights now. No more conf championships, all conf players, etc.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 8, 2011 1:18 p.m.

    The amount of obnoxious abusive fan's on either side is grossly overexagerated and is mainly fueled by single instances people wittness or anachdotal stories passed around in the press and folklore.

    I've never been to a game at LES but I've been a season ticket holder at the U since 84. BYU fan's need to get over themselves, in reality the borish Utah fans are a rather small segment and guess what they act that way regardless of who the opponent is. I've seen more fan's tangle at New Mexico and Wyoming games than I have BYU/Utah games at RES.

  • Hegdehog Bountiful, UT
    June 8, 2011 1:34 p.m.

    @9er4life
    "I really don't understand why going the indy route is so great as many y fans have pointed out. In any given year, you are not playing for a conference championship at a chance for bcs/championship game each year."

    That type of thinking has doomed the Utes to a life of mediocrity in the Pac 10+2 (i.e. Washington State). Conference championships have become meaningless. Teams have shown that they don't even have to win their conference championship and can still go to a bcs bowl game.

    Also, past bcs busters have shown that if you schedule heavy with cream puffs and mid majors and then sprinkle in a couple mediocre bcs schools its easier to run the table and get a bcs bowl invitation. There's no way Utah would have gone to a bcs bowl in either 2004 or 2008 if they were in the Pac 10, same for Boise St. As a result, BYU will play in a BCS/NC game as an independent way sooner than Utah will when they join Washington State as a Pac 12 bottomfeeder.

  • Hondo Alpine, UT
    June 8, 2011 1:39 p.m.

    I think it is ridiculous that we (Utah AND BYU fans) continually zero in on the small percentage of fans from both sides that "ruin" the fun in the rivarly instead of enjoying the rivalry. We think our rivalry is more heated than other rivalries, but if you go check out the boards similar to these for any other major rivalry you will see similar back and forth.

    ASU - U of A
    Auburn - Ala
    Mich - OSU

    Try it. Then come back here and make fun of the other school some more.

  • Broom Hockey Champ Alpine, UT
    June 8, 2011 1:54 p.m.

    "I've seen lots of fans cheering for opposing teams at BYU football and basketball games and the only ones I've ever seen have any problems are the ones who go out of their way to be obnoxious and in your face about it."

    I've seen fans from other teams get mistreated at games. It's not the fans from UNLV, CSU, Air Force, etc. that get treated rudely. There really isn't any passionate reason to heckle them as they offer BYU very little competition.

    From my experience, it was the Utah, USU, and Wyoming fans that were treated poorly. In some cases, they deserved it, but in SEVERAL instances the only reason they got verbally accosted was because they were wearing the other team's colors at a BYU venue. It's happened, gents, and, unfortunately, it has happened in several occasions over the years that I've attended BYU sporting events.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 8, 2011 1:55 p.m.

    Papa Smurf UTE

    Attending a home game of a rival school and cheering for the opposing team is the very definition of being a hater and would also be considered in-your-face, classless behavior by home fans in any arena. Just because BYU fans around you became upset with your behavior doesn't mean they in turn were classless.

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    June 8, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    To Duckhunter

    You mention throughout your hundreds of posts that you know basketball recruits, you've coached future recruits, you know players and staff on both BYU and Utah staff. With how busy you are, how would you have time for your hundreds of "well thought out" posts? Does your boss know what you do all day?

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2011 3:09 p.m.

    @Riddles in the Dark: Not entirely true. It was done more out of a fear that Div-1/FCS football and athletics in Rexburg could further degrade Utah State more than anything. Keep in mind much of the church leadership was against BYU upgrading to a BCS league in the 1990s (the Big-12 in 93 invited BYU to the organizing table) due to what degradation it could have on state programs particularly Utah at that time since it was just starting to come out of the dark ages of what was the 1970s and 1980s. Also Craig Thompson pulled a blackmail card out of his pocket when he attempted to invite Utah State last August to the MWC. Too bad the administration in Logan was too stupid to realize the gift they were handed!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 8, 2011 3:13 p.m.

    I cant even believe utaH fans think Pac10 is better than indepedence. $5 million dollars every game from espn is why were a lot better. 13 games times $5 million dollars is a lot plus a lot of recruits like independence better than the pac. I'll bet we win more than 90% of are games with Utah now.

  • MichiganCoog Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 8, 2011 3:14 p.m.

    Contrary to the title of this article Mr. Rock, I think this rivalry will end much sooner than you suggest. With BYU just adding their 7th appearance on either ESPN or ESPN2 for this coming season (adding 12/3 tilt against Hawaii on ESPN2); if BYU ends this season w/ 10 wins or more, plus a sure thing 8th game on ESPN for their Bowl game, and Utah only has 3 appearances...the national spot-light is/will be on Provo, not SLC. If BYU has a very successful finish in 2011, and Utah stumbles their way to a .500 record; this rivalry will not mean anything for the future, very rapidly. Yes, the reverse could be said if BYU falls flat on its' nose as well...but very unlikely since they return 18 of 22 starters, 10 of which are on offense. Whereas Utah has nobody to speak of returning (on paper)...Yes, I'll admit I could be wrong, but based off of the end of last season for both schools, based off of how both looked during the spring, only sets this up all the more. Good luck Utes, yar gonna need lots of it!

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 8, 2011 3:16 p.m.

    I don't see the Y/U game being the same going forward. Maybe this year but I think after that the luster of the game will be less and less. The U is going to the Pac 12 and is really playing with the elite now and the Y is caught in the blurry world of independents which can't last too long. The only chance the Y has going forward is to somehow get invited to Big 12 with Texas and Oklahoma.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 8, 2011 3:38 p.m.

    Counter Intelligence | 12:50 p.m. June 8, 2011
    No: but the abusive behaviour I experienced at Utah was when I was actually cheering for Utah (vs Pitt). So how do you explain that?

    -------------

    How do you explain your obsession with Utah?

    Today you want us to believe you were at the Pitt game but I thought with all your bad experiences @RES you no longer were going to Ute games? Which is it?

    Counter Intelligence | 3:37 p.m. Aug. 2, 2010
    I attended the U (among other schools). I no longer attend U games because I have less shrill alternatives.

    Counter Intelligence | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 3, 2010
    The arrogance of SoCalUtesFan et.al. is why I stopped attending Utah games.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 8, 2011 4:09 p.m.

    @kamute

    I am my own boss and do whatever I please. You on the otherhand are obsessed with me and i enjoy having that sort of power over you.

  • Just Truth Saratoga Springs, UT
    June 8, 2011 4:25 p.m.

    What a bunch of soft balls in this article. I can forgive either school for a bunch of isolated instances a rivalry invokes. Sounds like a bunch of he said, she said the way Rock describes it though. Nah, the rivalry goes beyond that for me.

    As long as one of the schools has a bunch of its own fans hating the other school for a religion that largely makes up members of its own fan base, I will never fully respect that school. At least one of the schools have fans who don't end up hating their own fans. It's like Utah has a rivalry going on within its own fan base. Sickening!

    Now if the element of religious hate didn't exist in this rivalry like other rivalries I could see it going by the wayside, but as long as there are anti's they'll always be a debate to defend against.

  • chubbymagoo Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2011 5:00 p.m.

    Great article, Mr. Rock.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    June 8, 2011 6:02 p.m.

    Ibleedcrimson | 1:18 p.m. June 8, 2011
    Cottonwood Heights, UT
    "The amount of obnoxious abusive fan's on either side is grossly overexagerated and is mainly fueled by single instances people wittness or anachdotal stories passed around in the press and folklore.

    I've never been to a game at LES but I've been a season ticket holder at the U since 84."

    ===

    I have been to games at "both" stadiums.

    The "stories" happen.

    Yes, it is weird to see BYU fans singing "Popcorn popping", but it is better than hearing the profanity, and seeing the acahol-induced tirades.

    There is no "druken-enhanced-tirades" in football!

    I WILL take my daughters to LES for a BYU/ Utah game.

    I will not take them to RES.

    ===

    The Utah fans were boorish in the 1980's, the 1990's, and 2000's.

    I think both sets of fans are emotional, and want their teams to win...

    But, really, come on. Unless you are in the Crimson Club seats, you don't see reality.

    I am tired of the Utah fans obsession with BYU.

    Until they realize it is just a game, I suggest we suspend the "rivalry".

    End it.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    June 8, 2011 6:32 p.m.

    If the rivalry ends, it will be because the teams cannot schedule each other, not for the fans' sakes. Let's face it: as someone mentioned before, with two schools in such close proximity and the state being split between Utah and BYU fans and the newspapers having to report on both teams, there will be Utah fans posting on BYU articles and BYU fans posting on Utah articles, and many of those comments will be negative. These comments boards will not change much. In fact, without a head-to-head game to settle things on the field, fans will come up with more bizare reasons why their team was better this year.

    I don't think the rivalry will be as strong since less is on the line for the teams, but it is far from dead.

  • Justmythoughts Richfield, UT
    June 8, 2011 6:43 p.m.

    End it now!

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 8, 2011 7:12 p.m.

    Most of the calls for ending the rivalry seem to be coming from Utah fans who beginning to understand that Utah's best years are behind them and another period of BYU dominance is emminent.

    By dropping BYU from their schedule, the kids on the hill can claim that their unranked 8-5 Utah teams are better than BYU's Top 25, 11-2 teams. Playing BYU would force the Utes to prove it on the field, which, as we've learned from past experience, AQ teams are loath to do. It's easier to claim superiority that to actually have to prove it on the field.

    Regardless of whether the series ends or takes a hiatus, the rivalry will never die. The BYU obsessed who post here every day have proven that.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 8, 2011 7:13 p.m.

    "But, really, come on. Unless you are in the Crimson Club seats, you don't see reality."

    I've had seats all over the stadium throughout the years, and I've seen plenty of borish behavior by a small "minority" of fan's. But you miss my point I've seen that behavior regardless of the opponent.

    I've also witnessed a tool in a BYU sweatshirt with a baseball cap on backwards
    Spit on a women who asked him to tone down his language, he was to the best of my knowledge stone cold sober. I guess since we're all into perpetuating our stereotypes on here about the other teams fan's, I can just go ahead and assume that guy was the rule not the exception.

  • ute-chute Beverly Hills, CA
    June 8, 2011 7:47 p.m.

    Uteology | 3:38 p.m. June 8, 2011
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Counter Intelligence | 12:50 p.m. June 8, 2011
    No: but the abusive behaviour I experienced at Utah was when I was actually cheering for Utah (vs Pitt). So how do you explain that?

    -------------

    How do you explain your obsession with Utah?

    ------------------------------

    Two different obsessions...

    Obsessions of Utah fans with BYU, and the obesession of BYU fans with the unending whining of Utah fans.

    We hate the constant whining of a fanbase that we have dominated for three decades in football, and is not even a Church-ball team in basketball.

    But, you continue to whine.

    Even when the PAC refuses to give you a seat at the table. The answer, is whine at BYU.

    If you can find an fan obsession with the players, the program, please let me know.

    But, Ute-ology-whining-obsessive-byu-hater, can you give me any BYU fan that has it worse than your obsession with BYU?

    (Uteology, ChrisB, Hedge, Naval, Honorcode, IbleedCrimson - ever a positive thing about Utah?)

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    June 8, 2011 8:07 p.m.

    Ibleedcrimson | 7:13 p.m. June 8, 2011
    Cottonwood Heights, UT
    "But, really, come on. Unless you are in the Crimson Club seats, you don't see reality."

    I've had seats all over the stadium throughout the years, and I've seen plenty of borish behavior by a small "minority" of fan's. But you miss my point I've seen that behavior regardless of the opponent.

    ===

    Come on, then you have seen the reality.

    However, I'll ask you to tell us how BYU fans are treated at RES...

    Please, describe...

  • bluecoug89 Highland, UT
    June 8, 2011 8:18 p.m.

    Long live the rivalry!!!!!!!!!!

  • Red Headed Stranger Billy Bobs, TX
    June 8, 2011 8:39 p.m.

    Ldsfan | 7:43 a.m. June 8, 2011
    South Jordan, UT
    It is silly that someone had to bring out the grade card. That is the reason why so many fans from all over the world loathe many at BYU with this attitude...As an educator at Utah(sic), we find that most students at Utah, Utah State, Dixie have students that chose their particular school. Those that wanted BYU usually couldn't go due to lack of money and availability to grants. BYU is expensive compared to state schools.

    ------

    This is demonstrably false - 2011 Tuition
    UU $6,274
    USU $5,150
    BYU $4,560

    Perplexingly you insinuate that while BYU can afford to be very selective and be "picky" about getting the really good students, that really doesn't matter. I disagree - but first the statistics

    ACT Percentiles of Middle 50% of students accepted
    BYU 84%-96% (26-30)
    UU 55%-86% (21-27)
    USU 55%-86% (21-27)

    (continued)

  • Red Headed Stranger Billy Bobs, TX
    June 8, 2011 8:41 p.m.

    (part 2)
    These scores show how the solid middle of students at a school scored on a standardized test. They show how the 25th percentile of BYU students scored pretty much the same as the 75th percentile at the UU and USU (SAT scores are similar). Also the "average" BYU student is about in the 90th percentile nationally. The "average" U student is, well average.

    Incoming 2011 National Merit Scholars

    BYU 76
    UU 17
    USU 1

    So there are more of the top students at the Y than the U also.

    You also state that those who came to the UU really want to be there. That may be the case, but it seems as if it is a "safety" school as only 45.4% of students who were accepted actually enrolled, compared to 76.9% at BYU.

    So you use anecdotes gleaned "'(a)s an educator at Utah", while I have shown using statistics that the average BYU student starts off at an advantage from the U and USU. Competition at the Y is pretty tough.

    While the state schools

    sources - National Merit Scholarship Corporation Annual report, US NewsWR, College Board, ACT

  • BaneOfHedgehog Bothell, WA
    June 9, 2011 12:10 a.m.

    Well played, Mr. Stranger! :-)

  • flintrock Rigby, Id
    June 9, 2011 12:29 a.m.

    What we have here is a bunch of cry babies for both sides. You know the kind that over-blow everything to make it look like they have been insulted or put upon. I have a grandchild I was watching the other day. He was playing with his brother. His brother's foot brushed against his ear and he went into a full blown fall on the ground I think I'm going to die routine. I looked at him and said," Nice fake job". He smiled and got up like nothing had happened. He knew he was caught red handed. Who cares if life isn't exactly the way you think it should be. Grow up and quit yer whining. There are losers at BYU and Utah.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 9, 2011 6:49 a.m.

    Give me a break Buster.

    Again, why don't you go to LES and wear the other team's logo and see how you are treated.....then come back and talk. Until then, you are just living with blinders on.....

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 9, 2011 8:56 a.m.

    @Chris Bryant

    You seem like a decent enough guy and I certainly understand your desire to defend your school. But the truth is you are simply wrong about this. Yes there are some boorish BYU fans and yes they are even occasionally rude but that is quite a bit different than outright bigotry and profane behavior.

    I have tried to post on here before a couple of exact incidents that occured at res before and during the BYU/Utah football game this past season. The Dnews simply won't let the posts go through but needless to say they were of the lowest of behavior, it was utah fans doing it, and both are things that would never occur at LES and come from BYU fans. It simply wouldn't happen.

    I liken this "rivalry" and the fan behavior to the Arab/Jew conflict with Utah being the Arabs and BYU being the Jews. If the Arabs/utah would stop behaving in the bigoted depraved manner they behave then the conflict would pretty much end. If the Jews/BYU fans tried to stop knocking heads with Utah "fans" nothing would change because the utah fans will never change.

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    June 9, 2011 10:33 a.m.

    Does anyone else find it ironic that uteology, while posting on yet another BYU article, actually asks a BYU fan why HE is obsessed with the U?!

    Man, you gotta love that Ute logic! Thanks for the laughs, uteology.

  • Itchy Lehi, UT
    June 9, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    I'd hate to lose the rivalry since it's so much fun. At the same time however, I don't mind if it becomes toned down a little since Utah/BYU are no longer in the same conference. I may actually find myself rooting for BYU now that they are no longer competing against my Utes for the conference championship. Plus, common sense dictates that it would be much better for Utah to beat a BYU team with a good record than a poor record (and vice versa for BYU fans). So I can honestly say: Go Utah and Go (to a lesser extent) BYU!

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 9, 2011 11:21 a.m.

    "Does anyone else find it ironic that uteology, while posting on yet another BYU article, actually asks a BYU fan why HE is obsessed with the U?!"

    Wow since the title of the article is:

    "BYU-Utah Utes rivalry not going quietely into the night"

    It would be understandable if some Utah fans thought the article concerned both teams.

    Please try and forgive us.

  • flintrock Rigby, Id
    June 9, 2011 11:33 a.m.

    Its a given that since BYU has a code of conduct that by and large the students at BYU are much nicer and do not drink or swear or say bad things about Utah.
    The football or basketball players at BYU never drink or smoke or drink power drinks or have sexual relations with someone other than their wife. They never swear, gossip, stay out late or speak ill of the dead. They never play sports on Sunday and always do their home teaching. There its all settled.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 9, 2011 12:49 p.m.

    @flintrock

    Despite your sarcasm you are more right than wrong. There are always exceptions to every rule but by and large what you caustically wrote is probably true.

    But of course we are discussing fan behavior here more than athlete behavior but even if we transfer your comments over to the fans it still applies.

    Just the way it is.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    June 9, 2011 12:56 p.m.

    @Duckhunter
    Really arabs and jews to byu and utah? It goes both ways man. All you do is finger point and blame utah fans while byu fans are just as bad. Also you are over exaggerating to the extreme. I have been to many rivarly games and for the most part people dont care about each others fans. Where are you sitting by the MUSS or something?

  • fresnogirl Fresno, CA
    June 9, 2011 2:05 p.m.

    @ Duckhunter

    Sorry, Duck. I have to agree with Utes21 on this one. Arabs and Jews was a weird analogy. I mean it works in that they were both ultimately founded by the same "Father" and are always fighting.

    I guess you could say Nephites and Lamanites. But, as to who are the righteous ones depends on which section of the Book of Mormon you are reading. There are good and bad fans on both sides of the rivalry. Bad behavior may tempt us to respond in kind, but the decision still lies with each of us.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 9, 2011 3:19 p.m.

    @fresnogirl and utes21

    Think a little bit harder. The point is this, if the arabs quit attacking Israel then the conflict will end. Israel would gladly accept peace and be finished with the conflict it is the arabs that propogate it so the Jews respond. It does not matter if Israel stops fighting or not because the Arabs won't.

    It is exactly the same with the BYU/Utah fans. BYU fans could immediately stop arguing and debating with utah fans. They could immediately stop posting on utah articles. It wouldn't make one bit of difference because the bigots that are utah fans will never stop their behavior.

    On the otherhand if the utah fans stopped, any like behavior from BYU fans would stop pretty quickly. That is a fact.

    A year ago you used to see 200 comments on every single BYU article with a good chunk of them being from utah "fans". There were commonly less than 10 comments on any given utah article with none of them being from BYU fans. Today BYU fans are simply returning to the utah fans what they started.

    utes21 is a child who lacks wisdom. fresnogirl should understand it.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 9, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    @utes21

    No they are not the same and no they are not "just as bad". You may wish that to be true but you and me sniping at each other on a message board is not the same thing as the segment of utah "fans" that are openly and verbally bigoted and profane. I do not hate anyone or anything at the "u". These people hate BYU, hate Mormons and hate everything we stand for and are. You being Mormon and being an apologist for them is quite sad.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 9, 2011 3:28 p.m.

    This rivalry needs to be cooled down, beginning in 2013. Utah should alternate playing BYU & USU, if the rivalry is continued, at all.

    Utah & BYU should each do an assessment of whether the rivalry should continue on a yearly basis. For Utah I think that assessment would conclude that Utah stands less to gain by playing BYU than BYU does playing Utah.

    It's an unequal proposition, given that Utah later in the season has to play the likes of USC, Arizona, ASU, the Oregon schools, the Washington schools, Cal & Stanford. BYU plays the likes of New Mexico State & San Jose State.

    If BYU concludes that Utah is taking up space on their schedule that can be occupied by Florida or Alabama or the Dallas Cowboys, then good for them. They should go for it. Win-win.

    Utah has their hands full with being in the PAC. They definitely don't need all the toxic baggage that comes with playing BYU every year. This dysfunctional relationship needs a break, and the Utes need to focus on bigger goals.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 9, 2011 4:43 p.m.

    @10cc

    I don't see any advantage at all for BYU to keep playing utah other than some schedule filler and that is negligible based on the pac10 dictating utah can only play out of conference in September. BYU can schedule just about any school in the nation in September.

    Also there is no boost to BYU for recruiting purposes and beating a mediocre pac10 team is not much of a resume enhancement.

    I suppose I don't really care one way or the other, you have to play someone and I guess utah is at least that, but there aren't a whole lot of positives in doing it.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 9, 2011 5:00 p.m.

    Duckhunter:

    I agree! Put the rivalry on ice. The benefits do not outweigh the costs.

    We'd all be more civil if we didn't participate in this annual extravaganza of poor sportsmanship.

  • flynn is the coolest Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2011 5:08 p.m.

    Counter Intelligence | 9:02 a.m. June 9, 2011
    Salt Lake City, UT

    The Pitt game was the last game I attended at Utah. I was hoping to have a good time with my friends.
    It was a bad experience - even though I was rooting for Utah - so I decided not to ever go again for the forementioned reasons
    It really isnt a difficult to figure out.

    =============

    I was there too- a BYU fan in the Muss section with a few friends. I even wore Red. It was a good game, but quite unruly.

    I think it's fine to yell and taunt the other team and their fans, but I draw the line when fans resort to chanting obscenities or utilize balloons and such to depict the opposing QB's mother. In this respect, I believe U fans are much worse. There is a line that BYU fans won't cross, but is readily embraced by a faction of U fans. It's too bad that so many Y fans lump the U fans into one pot, or don't just grow a thicker skin.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 9, 2011 5:50 p.m.

    I love how its BYU fans who say that its the Utes who are the worst. I keep saying it, but seriously, you folks need to cast the beam out of your own eye first.

    but, it obviously means a lot to you to win this debate and you cant seem to bear the thought there are BYU fans equally as boorish as ute fans (when was the last time that ute fans attacked an opposing coaches wife?, and other countless examples).

    Really guys, you dont have to be so insecure. Admitting there is just as big of a problem down in provo is not going to hurt you.

  • AggieLuva South Jordan, UT
    June 9, 2011 6:31 p.m.

    I have to put in my 2 cents here. I try to support all the Utah teams. I was very excited to go to the BYU/Utah game 2004 @RES. I had to break up 2 fights between 2 Utah fans twice! This was so disgusting to watch and I feared for my safety and had my daughter with me and she had to watch these disgusting Utah fans beat each other up. I used to go to a lot of Utah games as well as BYU games, but since then I have never and will never go to another game @RES to watch BYU/Utah play again. Since then, I really can't help it but root against Utah because of what I saw. I am excited that Utah is in the PAC 12 now so I can come watch powerhouse PAC 12 teams play them and beat them. I have been to a few rivalry games at LES and it was pleasant to watch 2 good teams play and I was glad I didn't have to break up BYU fans from beating each other up.

  • fresnogirl Fresno, CA
    June 9, 2011 9:31 p.m.

    Duckhunter

    I will tell you what I tell my children:

    1) Two wrongs don't make a right.
    2) You can't ever choose how someone will act towards you, but you can always choose your response.
    3) If someone is being a jerk to you, he/she is craving attention. Ignore them and they will move on. The more you engage them, the more they continue. (Don't believe me, then read back through these posts).
    4) Finally, the RIGHTEOUS Nephites never went on the Offensive. They only fought to protect their lands.

    So, yes, Duckhunter I do understand. I hope you understand where I am coming from too. When posting, we are all representing our schools, ourselves and the wonderful state of Utah. (Even those of us who don't get to live there anymore).

  • Big_Ben SLC, UT
    June 10, 2011 8:13 a.m.

    Counter,

    I appreciate your comments. But can you prove what you claim? Do you have any numbers? What studies have you coducted?

    I can't take your conclusion seriously until you prove it. Merely claiming it doesn't make it so.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2011 8:18 a.m.

    Without question there is a desire to maintain the rivalry on the part of BOTH administrations. If anyone is going to be switching off playing in-state rivals it will be Utah State taking the bus trip to Provo and Salt Lake City on alternating years for the big-$$$ payout. Right now Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott says it MUST be played in September when his league engages in its OOC contracts. BUT, this could all change in the future which is why only a 2 year home and home deal was signed for 2011/2012. Despite the denials, the Big-12 will go back to 12 schools, and despite the naysayers, BYU will be invited to that league with its Never On Sunday policy and accommodated accordingly, this all could be in place as early as 2013-2014. At that point Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott and Big-12 Commissioner Dan Beebe will realize something unique and might well decide to showcase this cross-league rivalry much the way the SEC/ACC do schools in South Carolina, Florida and Georgia, knowing it would be in their best interest$.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    June 10, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    @duck
    Where to start with you brother. I only snipe at you because you are becoming everything you just went off about and act like you arent being hypocritical. A mormon apologist right...? I am glad you have the right to judge a fellow member and label him an apologist. Who needs to grow up again?
    Yes there may be Ute fans who hate the LDS church and what it stands for but who honestly cares? Why do you return the hate back, that is not what the Savior teaches. Our church has been persecuted since it was established this is nothing new today. Yet most members arent throwing a temper tantrum and trying to preach an eye for an eye like you and your using the University of Utah as your scapegoat. If some foolish supposed fans use the church as their main reason to like Utah let them. They are just poser fans who just look for another reason to hate the LDS church.
    You claim hedgehog is a mormon hater but you have returned as much hate to him in return. Who is being the bigger person here? Man up, practice what you believe in.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    June 10, 2011 11:46 a.m.

    Are you really defending duck? His whole reasoning is return hate with hate, has that really worked out well with anyone? Truth is people are always going to hate no matter what is. Does someone hating your church justify you to hate them back in return? Like I said practice what you preach or believe in. Hating back in return leads you no where and makes you a bitter person. Its also a gigantic waste of time. Also stereotyping an entire fan base as mormon haters is just plain ignorant and false.
    Have you heard the term misery loves company? Hedgehog must be a miserable person if he attacks the LDS church. Why sink to his level, just ignore him. Duck has admitted he post comments on Ute articles just to get back at trolls. He has become one in the process.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 10, 2011 12:02 p.m.

    I think Big Ben's request was fairly simple. You can't merely extrapolate your personal experience to a broad statement like that when you have obvious and self-acknowledged biases. Your sample size is too few. Your bias skews your view.

    Take the blinders off. If you feel you aren't wearing any blinders, get us some stats. The burden of proof is on you.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 10, 2011 4:26 p.m.

    Counter, counter, counter.........

    lol, you are one amusing person. That i give you credit for.

    The request for statistics was given because you are claiming "oh its definately worse on one side." my point is that of course there aren't statistics to bear it out. You can't prove that; you have to go on experience. My problem with your assumptions is that they are based purely on your perspective. Every time I have asked if you have ever been to a BYU game wearing the other team's clothes (particularly Utah's), you have dodged the question, considering it irrelevant I guess. It shows your bias. Until you have been in those shoes, you can't know for sure.

    I have my own experiences of BYU fans boorish behavior. I also have the stories of people I trust who have seen boorish behavior by fans on both sides of the aisle. From all of these stories, it appears to me that there is an equal ratio of clowns on both sides.

    You only choose to listen to the side that agrees with you. But, neither of us can prove that we are right. so keep the blinders on.

  • Chris Bryant SLC, UT
    June 10, 2011 11:52 p.m.

    And we have officially gone the rounds on this one. There is nothing else to say. Keep doing what you do.