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Utah Jazz brass hitting the road for player evaluations

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  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    May 31, 2011 11:25 p.m.

    Is Bismack Biyombo a better 3rd pick than Enes Kanter? Guess the Jazz brass will discover that soon as they're evaluating both. I've seen posters praising him.

    The Jazz probably figure Williams will go 2nd, so are looking hard at bigs in this draft.

    It'll be interesting to see how Jimmer's workout with the Jazz affects who they'll pick at 3. Sounds like he held his own well enough at the Pacers evaluation. His workout might affect that 3rd pick. Jimmer is theirs to lose.

    Glad to see Emery impressed Corbin with his shooting, which has been a minor question for some. Emery's defense goes without question.

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    June 1, 2011 2:25 a.m.

    I'm one of the guys who has been praising Bismack Biyombo. Here's why.

    While he's only 6'7 3/4" (without shoes, 6'9" with) he plays more like a 7 footer. With a 7'7" wingspan, no player has ever registered a wingspan that is nearly a foot longer than his actual height. Because of his wingspan, he's going to be able to play both Power Forward and Center.

    Biyombo is extremely athletic and jumps like a kangaroo. Imagine Jeremy Evans with a 243 pound muscular body? That's pretty close to what Bismack is. As a matter of fact I'm certain that Evans will be the only player, currently on the Jazz, that will be able to out jump Biyombo.

    Bismack is tough, vocal, explosive around the basket, plays with emotion, works hard for positioning, hates to lose, loves to defend the paint, doesn't back down from bigger heavier players, willingly helps other players, is constantly working to improve his game and will push himself to the point of exhaustion.

    How often have the Jazz had a player with all those attributes?

    (cont.)

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    June 1, 2011 2:50 a.m.

    (continued from previous post)

    So, if Bismack's so great why isn't he being drafted number 1?

    Biyombo has only been playing organized basketball since the age of 14. Currently, he's 18 years old (turns 19 in August) and his game is still developing. That makes him younger than Derrick Favors.

    I know, I can already hear the words murmuring from the mouths of many Jazz fans, "Oh no, not another soft Euro player."

    Nope, not not in this case.

    Bismack is from the Congo and after reading many articles and watching videos of him play. I'm convinced he's going to develop into an incredible player in the NBA. Whoever drafts him is getting a diamond in the rough, one that is going to pay dividends for years to come.

    I hope it's the Jazz. I'd love to see Biyombo get the chance to play with Favors and Hayward. I believe it would only be a matter of time (six months) before they would start to crush most of their NBA competition.

    There is only player I would draft ahead of Biyombo and that would be Derrick Williams. (If available.)

  • Jazz-Nation Lehi, UT
    June 1, 2011 8:41 a.m.

    Lets find our big man next year. Why waste the pick on an under-sized big?

    Nobody in this draft is better than PM,AJ,or DF. Once the Jazz fix the terrible perimeter play, back court and shooting it will allow the bigs to be much more efficient and put up better numbers on both sides of the floor.

    The Jazz had one of the worst back courts in the NBA last season, so that has to be priority number one.

  • f1do_bball Centerville, UT
    June 1, 2011 8:46 a.m.

    No way should the Jazz pick Biyombo at 3. He is too much of a risk--though he likely won't be there at 12. He is a boom/bust pick--I've read that he shows tons of promise on the defensive end and dominated the competition at the Nike Hoops Summit but by all accounts his offensive game was the rawest at the camp. Every highlight shows him dunking. He has nothing away from the hoop. Most reviews say he is several years away from being able to contribute to a NBA team since he will need to continue to develop his game--especially on offense. He will also need to learn to control his defensive game as well to avoid foul trouble. At 3 there will be other prospects available who can fill needs and are much less of a risk.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    June 1, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    Valanciunas buyout has raised to 3 mill. Williams (so far) refuses to schedule workouts with anyone other than CLE and MN unless MN trades.

    Jimmer did well in IND but the NY workout will be different and against much better competition. Lets see how he does against Brooks. NY got players they felt would give Jimmer trouble.

    The Knock on Biyombo is that he does not play nearly as well in regular games as he did in the one Nike tournament. The refs let him be very aggressive and get away with fouling most of the time in that tournament.

    Biyombo is undersized but his max vert reach is good. He will take a few years to be NBA ready. I would rather have him than one of the Morris twins.

    The Jazz are going Knight or Kanter with the 3 unless they trade down for Vesley. The 12 pick is a big question. If Jimmer continues to test well they could take him but the Bobcats and Bucks could also.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 1, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    @ rvalens2,

    If Biyombo is all that, and if Williams is gone before the 3rd pick, why not draft Jimmer at 3 and Biyombo at 12? I bet he'd still be there at 12.

    It's unlikely the Jazz can get two lottery picks that will contribute sooner than Williams and Jimmer, so getting at least one of them at 3rd is key. The 12th pick could then be used for a future development-type player that has a big upside, like Biyombo.

    Biyombo could be taught to shoot, IF he has any touch. That'd be key to his future. Unknown, so why he's a risk.

  • LKA Tremonton, UT
    June 1, 2011 9:46 a.m.

    NBA has already said tnere will be no summer league. Bobcats tried to do one on their own and the league shut them down. So like here nothing can be done with ESA or Jazz workout place. Players on their own can unite and do what they want. They need to get a little creative rent a college gym, cahrge a small admission fee to pay for it and have a workout. This lockout will get ugly..

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    June 1, 2011 1:21 p.m.

    The GS pick next year will probably be late enough that the really good bigs are gone. It is either Kanter or Vesley this year or some trade which is much harder to pull off.

    Kanter is better than Greg Monroe and Jazz fans would have killed to get Monroe last year. Now they have Favors the fans are very picky. That is a good situation to be in.

    Having given up DWill to get Favors, the big question about both Knight and Jimmer is thier ability to run an NBA team. Knight lacks experience. Jimmer has experience but the BYU offense was very unorthodox. It was a spread offense and then became a spread offense with the PG being the primary shooter/spreader.

    Walker has the experience but I do not like this years style of game. He had a somewhat different style the 2 years before.

    I like both Knight and Jimmer but I am expecting efficiency and a distributive style that makes the other players better. Both can shoot when necessary and both can open up the inside.

    The Jazz have to go to a 2 PG offense in my opinion. Knight AND Jimmer is possible.

  • HerbSewell Las Vegas, Nevada
    June 1, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    Drafting Jimmer @ 3 would be absolutely horrendous and recklessly stupid.
    Biyombo, nor Jimmer, will be wearing Jazz uniforms in a near or distant future.

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    June 1, 2011 1:53 p.m.

    What are the two biggest complaints Jazz fans have about the team?

    1. Inconsistent outside shooting.

    2. Not much defense in the paint.

    Bismack will help solve one of those problems, defense in the paint. It isn't going to matter much that his outside shot is suspect. Favors, Hayward, Millsap, and Jefferson can handle the shooting. Besides, with Bismack's work ethic, the shooting touch will come. Or have we all forgotten how awful Karl Malone was at shooting free throws when he first came in to the league?

    I'm not saying that Bismack is going to become Karl Malone but he does exhibit a work ethic we haven't seen in anyone since Karl.

    The first time Jazz fans see Biyombo take off from the foul line and absolutely crush the rim with a monster dunk will be a real eye opener. His off the charts athleticism is going to seem other worldly.

    The Jazz are always saying, "We want to draft the best athlete." Well, if Derrick Williams isn't available then Bismack is, in my opinion, the next best athlete.

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    June 1, 2011 1:55 p.m.

    Sorry mr Burley but the Jazz have had experience at having people who are 6'7" tall guarding Gasol, Odom, Durrant, etc. It is not fun as they hold the ball above their heads while the 6' 7" people jump and jump. Nto exactly like JJ Berea but you get the idea.

    Kanter is years ahead of this guy and in great physical shape. Out of all the people at the tryouts he stayed on the treadmill 4th longest that includes the guards. He is 6' 11" and he is 255 and has a somewhat developed shot and can swat the ball.

    The Jazz backcourt is plenty good. Hard to get an assist when you throw theball to people who can't shoot like CJ, Bell, Price, Elson Fes and AK to name a few. That many bad shooters makes me wonder who the worthless shooting coach is and why don't they replace him.

    The Jazz need to make the move to get Williams. All the above can be used for trade purposes to MN to get the 2nd pick. Williams is the pick of the draft.

  • 3for5spotshooter Sun Valley, Idaho
    June 1, 2011 2:13 p.m.

    Will it matter?

    Trade everybody who is good...

    To contending teams...

    The Jazz...

    Is the NBA feeder program....

  • Jazz Source Alpine, UT
    June 1, 2011 2:49 p.m.

    Take Kantor at the 3. He is an athletic BIG and you can't hardly find them in the NBA let alone one with 5% body fat and 255lbs.

    Bigs, Bigs, Bigs.

    Always take a good one whenever you can get one.

    You can't teach height/bulk. There are plenty of shorter guys you can get via other options.

    We had to trade Deron Williams to get Favors. Bigs don't come cheap.

  • LAJazzFan Los Angeles, CA
    June 1, 2011 3:06 p.m.

    @Doug10- I agree that I would rather have Kanter at #3 due to his size and all around game. I don't see him being much of a defensive player, but he will score and rebound.

    However, what you don't understand is that Biyombo has a standing reach that is actually greater than Kanter's. Standing reach (and vertical jump/athletism) combined with a solid body is huge in the paint and Biyombo has it. I agree with the guy from Idaho that Biyombo will be a defensive force in the future. If we still had the #6 pick, he would probably be my choice.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    June 1, 2011 4:30 p.m.

    Biyombo is years away from playing in the NBA. He does have the Max Vert and reach to play in the NBA in spite of being Millsap's height. The Jazz would trade down if they really want him.

    I do not see the Jazz trading down. They will take Knight, Kanter or Vesley if they are really impressed after seeing Vesley in person.

    It is possible that some team moves up and grabs Knight or Kanter at 2 and Williams falls to 3. I doubt if Williams is much better than Millsap at PF but he COULD play SF. That is the big question about Williams.

    CAN he really play SF? Can he guard Durant and King James? Can he score against them? Kanter is just a quick a Williams and bigger.

    Williams refuses to workout so there is no real way of knowing IF he can actually play SF. I suspect he is Ty Thomas maybe with a better attitude.

    Try waving a good draft pick at CHA and I bet you could get Thomas.

    Williams will only be able to play SF against 1/2 of the teams.

    How useful it that to the Jazz?

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    June 1, 2011 4:36 p.m.

    There is a reason why MN wants to trade the 2nd pick.

    Williams is not better than Beasley.

    Beside the fans hate Flynn and MN is not getting Rubio.

    Do not be surprised if MN takes Knight or Kemba. They would like to trade down and get one of them but there is a risk of losing both. They have the option of taking Williams and then trading Williams and Flynn for a PG and something.

    Jimmer could actually run the triangle (as it demand little of a PG) and should be of interest to MN.

    There are a lot of options in this draft for getting what you need.

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 1, 2011 6:14 p.m.

    I love Biyombo, but I wouldn't take him at 3, Kanter is very talented, tough, can rebound very well, has very good offensive game. I really hope we get him. I don't agree that he is undersized, he's as big as half or more of the centers in the league. He's 6'11 with a 7'1 1/2" wingspan, not the longest but good enough.
    The 12 spot is anybodies guess, I think Jimmer would be a pretty safe pick, we know he can shoot, he has good handles and can create. We need that.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 1, 2011 6:15 p.m.

    If Williams doesn't want to play for the Jazz, but gets drafted by them and eventually signs a contract, will he stay? Or will he pull a D-Will and make the Jazz trade him before his first contract is up?

    Could Williams, after being in Utah a year, decide it's not so bad after all? I doubt it. He's likely thinking big market.

    Therefore, who's the next best player in the draft if Williams wouldn't be drafted? My money's still on Jimmer. He's a difference maker on a team that doesn't have one, let alone a PG that can actually lead a team (assists).

  • Large Tuna Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2011 6:29 p.m.

    No one would draft Jimmer at 3. NO ONE. Jimmer at the 3 pick is nothing short of ridiculous. And that's coming from a non Jimmer hater. Come on, be realistic. He will be there at 12 when the Jazz choose to pass on him for a second time. Late lotto pick at best. Is he a good player? yes. Is he a 3 pick? Absolutely NOT. I guess I'll just have to wait until draft day to post the "told you so" comments when Jimmer gets picked in the late teens, see you then.

  • OrlandoJazzFan Winter Springs, FL
    June 1, 2011 7:36 p.m.

    Jimmer for the 3rd pick? Really??? Hate to disappoint but the most recent DraftExpress Mock has Jimmer dropping clear back to the Pacers pick at 15 which is why they had him in for a trial. I'm not sure he is a good pick for even the 12 spot. If Chris Singleton is there we should nab him. We need a little defense.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 1, 2011 8:58 p.m.

    @ Large Tuna & OlrandoJazzFan,

    You're Jimmer doubters. You'll get Jimmered. Wait and see.

    With each team evaluation, he'll begin to show he's not such a defensive liability as most think. He'll also show he can be the best trey shooter the NBA has EVER seen. And, you can't put a price on that!

    He's already shown with just the Pacers that he does have PG skills--that he can easily handle the ball against quick guards.

    His defense will improve because he wants it to. Attitude to improve is very big with teams. I'd bet less than half of current NBA players have that attitude.

    Take LeBron for example. He mostly rests on his laurels. With his innate talent and shooting touch, why doesn't he put constant pressure on teams? He doesn't. He coasts a lot. Sometimes he looks like he doesn't know what to do next, instead of making his defender defend. That's why I'm down on him.

    Jimmer will never have that issue.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    June 1, 2011 10:16 p.m.

    MN just made a deal with Rubio which changes a lot of things.

    They still do not need Williams but they should not take Knight or Kemba. They do need Kanter or Valancuinas who may slide due to contract problems.

    The Jazz could get Williams unless MN trades down. I am not sold on Williams and his CA attitude nor his ability to actually play the SF position all of the time.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 2, 2011 12:17 a.m.

    So, Bugoff, who should the Jazz pick at 3rd if you're not sold on Williams? Jimmer? Certainly not Knight (too young, inexperienced, and slight). Certainly not Kemba--Jimmer outshone him at the Combine. Who's left that's not a risk?

    I can't think of another player than Jimmer that should be taken that high. All other bigs are projects. You don't draft projects at 3.

    Jimmer isn't a project, but might take a year (or half of one) to come up to speed with the NBA game. I see him jelling in the NBA as quickly as Stockton did, not that he'll lead in assists like John, but you never know.

    Maybe Jimmer at 3 and Kanter or Biyombo at 12?

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 2, 2011 8:04 a.m.

    @WhatsInItForMe

    Kanter is not a project...he is possibly the best Big on the Draft...but...i would love the jazz to take Jimmer...we need his outside shooting and he handles double and triple teams effectively...

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 2, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    watsinitforme: I love Jimmer, but your like the poster cjmiles, your unrealistic about Jimmer, that being said, if Knight can go 3, I guess Jimmer could.
    I'm not that high on Knight, I've asked Locke (who has been doing breakdowns of players) to tell me what nba ready skills does Knight have that Jimmer doesn't. No response. To me Jimmer has more nba ready / level skills than Knight, Jimmer is a better shooter, a better dribbler/handler (great crossover/double crossover), Jimmer is quicker, stronger, Knight is faster, Jimmer finishes better after contact. I'm not saying Jimmer is the best player in the draft, I'm just saying he is as good or better than Knight. I know Knight is young and has the chance to improve because of that but to me the player who develops his point guards decision making skills will end up the best. Jimmer already is a better shooter, handler. Time will tell.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 2, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    @ Kakashi,

    How is Kanter not a project if he's never played the game much?

    What's your definition of a project? One who's never had the ball in his hands?

    @ Captain L,

    The main reason I'm so high on Jimmer, aside from his obvious offensive skills, is his character. The kid never fails (long-term).

    All great players have their downs, and bad games, etc. But all great players improve over time, making their weakness vanish.

    Jimmer will do that more so than any player in this year's draft. It's in his character to do so.

    I don't think I'm a bit delusional about his future. I've seen enough to know whatever he sets his mind to, he accomplishes.

    Whether it takes him a month, a year, or five years, he'll end up on top of the heap in the NBA, Jimmering all his doubters.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    June 2, 2011 11:22 a.m.

    He can jimmer everybody on another team. I don't want the jazz to become a run and gun team like the knicks and the suns.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    June 2, 2011 12:03 p.m.

    Jimmer at 3 is very difficult. He is climbing the board and the probability he is available at 12 is decreasing.

    If he starts getting workouts from top 10 teams the Jazz have to decide if they take Knight or Kanter at 3 or if they can move down to 4-6 to get Jimmer before SAC. That would give the Jazz Jimmer, the 12 pick and some other asset.

    The most crucial question is who of Knight, Jimmer and Kanter will produce the best net points differential in the overall team effort. Who would help the Jazz outscore their opponents the most by both team offense and team defense.

    Jimmer is more NBA ready than Knight. Knight MIGHT have more career upside. Knight is as fast as Rose.

    The key though is who can run the team best in the long run? The PG position is more important than Kanter since the Jazz have Favors.

    Perceptions ride on the NY workout. If Jimmer does well he shoots into the top 10 picks.

    IF he struggles to defend Brooks and falters against the D specialists NY brought in to test him then he will be there at 12.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    June 2, 2011 12:15 p.m.

    Jimmer has more value to the Jazz than any other team. He allows them to raise prices and create other sales.

    The financial side of the Jazz want Jimmer for the increased revenues. He will be a decent player for another team but he will not have the effect on revenues for other teams that he will have for Utah.

    In the long run IF Jimmer increase revenue a lot more than he costs in salary he gives the Jazz more money to buy more overall talent (depends on hardness of cap).

    That is one of the reasons Jimmer is very hard to evaluate. His value to the Jazz goes beyond his playing capability.

    IF there is no difference in actual team performance among Jimmer, Knight and Kanter the Jazz go with Jimmer for financial reasons.

    If there is a big difference the Jazz go with best player as a winning team will generate revenues.

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 2, 2011 12:52 p.m.

    Bug: Your rihgt, the Jazz FO won't pick Jimmer unless he makes sense from a winning perspective, the added financial boost from his popularity is a bonus but it's his basketball talents that will determine if he is picked.
    It is hard to project what Knights upside will be, will he fill out and get over 200 lbs and strong, so he can bang on his drives to the hole, or will he remain like Harris and stay skinny are struggle to finish is traffic etc? I don't see Knight being like Rose or Westbrook, he not as good an overall athlete as they are. That being said, I don't know that his upside is much better (if any) than Jimmers.

  • CJ Miles Dallas, TX
    June 2, 2011 1:16 p.m.

    Captain....I am a bowl full of strawberries compared to Whatsinitforme. He is way over the top. I least can admit when CJ is playing horrible. Jimmer plays zero defense and Whatsinit thinks he should be on the all defensive team. Plus he feels that Jimmer and Emery would be the best backcourt in NBA history. Now that's over the top.

  • byronbca Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2011 1:58 p.m.

    I don't think the Jazz will be seeing anyone in Europe that they are considering at 3, but I'd bet that there is at least one of the top Euros projected to go top 10 that slips to 12 because he's European.

    Personally I like Kanter and Knight at 3 and Singleton at 12, but I think KOC will make the right choice. I wasn't happy with Hayward last year and now I think he could be a star, so lesson learned.

    And to the Jimmer trolls, I don't think Jimmer's own mother would pick him at 3. If the Jazz love him just pick him at 12, he will still be there.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 2, 2011 3:43 p.m.

    @ CJ Miles, et al,

    I'm way over the top about Jimmer because he's capable of Jimmering all doubters.

    Time will tell. My support for him will in time be vindicated.

    I pay a lot more attention to the IT factor in people than their perceived talents and shortcomings. Why? Because that factor wins in the end.

    Players with the IT factor overcome their shortcomings. Nash is a prime example.

    Jimmer already has a head start on his competition from his scoring ability. It's just a matter of time, and I don't think all that long, before his so-called defensive shortcomings are mute.

    There isn't a player in the draft--none--who puts the kind of pressure on a defense that Jimmer does. You can't buy that, but you can draft it!

  • CJ Miles Dallas, TX
    June 2, 2011 4:20 p.m.

    Like I said, over the top!! In the Pacers said his defense was what they thought it was....Non-existent!!

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 2, 2011 6:23 p.m.

    Whatsinit ForMe: I hope your right.

    CJMiles it has only been the last half the season you started to soften and talk more realistic. You do need credit for doing that though.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 2, 2011 6:24 p.m.

    @WhatsInItForMe

    you are one funny guy...i bet all you watch is jimmer all day...and you havent gotten a chance to watch Kanter play...Kanter has very solid offensive skills...rotates well on defense but does not play above the rim on D but an excellent rebounder...Is that what you call a project? a Project...is a guy who has one skill set and lacks every other one...Bismack Biyombo is a project since he has limited offensive game...Kanter...however...isnt like Biyombo on D...but he isnt a liability on D...that means...he has very good offensive skills and decent D...better pick on roll defender than Al Jeff...so...if you think Kanter is a project...then you dont know basketball...have you even played at least HS varsity basketball?...

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 2, 2011 7:03 p.m.

    @WhatsInItForMe

    you are funny...lol...Enes Kanter Rebounds the ball well...has a sound offensive game and is not a liability on D...overall he is that good...the definition of a prospect is a guy who is relatively talented on one end...and absolutely Raw on the other...like Bismack Biyombo...a project can also be very athletic...yet has raw skills...Enes Has solid sound offensive skills and he could play right away...he is a better rotation defender than Al Jeff...so if Enes Kanter is a project to you...you must be blind...get rid of your Jimmer vision...lol....

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    June 2, 2011 8:38 p.m.

    Why aren't. These guys coming to slc? Isn't this kanters second slight of the jazz?

  • OrlandoJazzFan Winter Springs, FL
    June 2, 2011 9:28 p.m.

    As mush as I've laughed at the Jimmer @ 3 - I think I'm coming around to the idea. I really wanted the Jazz to take Chris Singleton at the 12 instead of Jimmer. Why not have our cake and eat it too. Jimmer's scoring and Financial boost at 3 and then everyone slides down a notch so we are assured Singleton and his defense will be available at 12. Jimmer and Singleton would be two great additions for the Jazz.

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 2, 2011 11:43 p.m.

    I still like Kanter as my #1 choice, unless some info changes my mind, but second to Kanter, I would probably go with Biyombo, I like his upside, I know he is raw offensively but everything else I really like and I think he can and will develop on the offensive side.
    Everyone is OK with Knight having to develop but Biyombo has way more upside, the more I think about it the more I like the idea of BB even at the 3 spot. KOC and staff are going over to look at him and if they pick him , it would be because they have researched him and feel he'd be worth it, I would be very much OK with that. If not maybe he's too far away in his development. I'd love to see him fall to 12 and we get him there.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    June 3, 2011 12:14 a.m.

    SAC is bringing in both Jimmer and Kemba to go head to head. If Jimmer does well he may go at 7. DET (8), CHA (9) and MIL (10) are also possibilities.

    I watched Kidd make TOs tonight. Jimmer has to be better than Kidd at this point and Kidd is playing for a championship.

    On Knight, he has all the tools and plays good D. He is slight but he biggest question is how well he will run a team. He tends to have some trouble seeing the field. That probably fixes with experience and he can play SG.

    However, DAL went small with 2 PGs and Jet to win in the last 6 minutes. Perhaps there is over concern about the size of the guards? It they can set picks, shoot and keep their man in front of them that seems to work. Wade and James were shut out in the last 6 minutes by small guards.

    I do not see the Jazz grabbing one of the Euros. They are not NBA ready and Vesley can not shoot. Moutie is a stick.

    Kanter or Knight are fine at 3. Jimmer is a stretch.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 3, 2011 4:19 a.m.

    @OrlandoJazzFan

    why not trade down the third pick for two more picks + a quality player...we could get Jimmer Biyombo and Singleton...i'll just wait and see what the brass would do

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 3, 2011 9:04 a.m.

    If Kanter is capable of playing the NBA game (without bad knees), in spite of no "real" college experience, the Jazz wouldn't go wrong in picking him at 3. His 34/12 vs future lottery types seems to be his only claim to fame, as far as experience goes. It's a big IF, though.

    I thought Williams did well enough in the Combine to merit consideration if he's available at 3.

    I also think Jimmer's exactly what the Jazz need at PG.

    So, I have a conundrum with this draft. I'd prefer to see Jimmer go to the Jazz at 3, but it's also tough to pass up good bigs, and there doesn't seem to be many "ready to play" (non-projects) in this year's draft outside of Kanter and Williams.

    I'm not sure about next year's draft for getting a decent big. Who knows how high the Jazz first round pick might be then.

    Rubio's pick-up by Minnesota really changes things for the Jazz 3rd pick. They likely won't take Irving or Knight. So, one of the bigs will be gone by the 3rd pick.

  • shaybo Richfield, UT
    June 3, 2011 10:22 p.m.

    Jimmer dominated Knight at the Pacers workout.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 4, 2011 7:47 a.m.

    Derrick Williams will go number 1....Enes Kanter would go number 2...we might have Irving at 3.....but why not trade down...for two more picks?...or probably packaged the pick with some players for next year's lotto pick....

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 4, 2011 9:56 a.m.

    If Irving is slipping to 3 because Cleveland sees more value in a big, even though it's been hammered for some time in the mock drafts that they'd take Irving, I suspect Jimmer's rise in the lottery picks might be making these other lottery guards not so enticing.

    In other words, if Irving and Knight are all that, why wouldn't they be going sooner than 3?

    After a few more team evaluations, it wouldn't surprise me that Jimmer becomes the first PG picked in the draft.

    Good bigs are hard to come by, and Williams and Kanter seem to be getting good props lately.

    Could Biyombo sneak into the top 5?

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 4, 2011 10:59 a.m.

    Kakashi; There is no way of knowing who is going to be in the lottery next year or where in the lottery they would be, so saying trade into next yrs lottery doesn't make sense.
    Shaybo: I don't know where you getting your info about Jimmer dominiating Knight at the Pacer workout, Knight wasn't even there. Jimmer played against Nolan Smith of Duke.

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 4, 2011 11:04 a.m.

    As much as I like BB, I think he is too raw to get into the top 5, in fact if anything, I think he may slip alittle. I wish KOC would give us more info about how they like the players their working out. It won't happen but it would be nice.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 4, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    @Captain L

    there are perennial lotto teams...take a pick...base it on their roster...in other mock drafts...Biyombo's stock is falling....i say trade up...Irving may be good...but i doubt his work ethic....i'd say trade up...grab jimmer...singleton and donatas or Biyombo...i think that's a more sound choice...

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 4, 2011 10:07 p.m.

    Kakashi: We have a draft pick in the lottery of a perennial lottery team, GS.
    I'm still hoping for Kanter at 3 and Jimmer at 12 but who knows, if they take Knight, then there are a half a dozen players they may be targeting. Montajunas would be a good pick, he's pretty talented.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 5, 2011 9:59 a.m.

    im pretty sure...Williams would go 1...kanter would go 2....its either Irving or Knight for us...and Cleveland's 4th pick would get the one we dont choose...un less we trade down for two picks...we would have three picks this year...we could end up getting...either of the following players....Jimmer...Singleton...Jeremy Tyler...Donatas...Biyombo...think about it...we could even get mack...

  • shaybo Richfield, UT
    June 5, 2011 10:57 p.m.

    CaptainL: Your right, it was Nolan Smith not Knight, but if Nolan Smith couldn't stop him neither could Knight.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    June 6, 2011 8:45 a.m.

    Kemba has backed out of the head to head with Jimmer at SAC.

    Further, IF Valanciunas does not get his buyout worked out he could slide to 12 where the Jazz would have to consider him. He would be available in 2012 with no buyout.

    Knight is as quick as Rose which is a lot faster than Nolan Smith.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    June 6, 2011 1:32 p.m.

    If PG quickness were a guarantee for winning championships, why are Miami and Dallas there? Neither has one of those quick PGs starting for them.

    It's one thing to have quickness (Iverson did), but another to be able to lead a team (Iverson didn't).

    I think quickness is overrated. It's nice to have, but not a prerequisite to NBA success (team-wise, that is).

    Look at the very best PGs of the NBA, past and present. Most are not considered quick.

    If a player has the IT factor AND quickness, watch out. I haven't seen that yet. Rose might one day develop, but so far he's just another Iverson.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 6, 2011 6:31 p.m.

    @WhatsInItForMe

    i agree with you to some degree...i think the most important thing about a PG is Basketball IQ...decision making...shot selection...Speed is a bonus...there are some who would say...how can he defend the other quick PGs?...as far as im concerned...basketball is a team sport...if you apply a very tight and good defense...even if our PG is slow...as long as we have help defense...and good rotations...the speed would be nullified...its time the Jazz improve on team Defense...not just one on one D...that wont win us championships...just look at the Heat and the Bulls D...when ever someone drives in..they fill a hole...they rotate...quickly...its a matter of positioning..and when you would rotate to help...i sure hope Ty Corbin improves our D...

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 6, 2011 7:02 p.m.

    Stockton proved you don't have to be the fastest, quickest, tallest point guard to be the best. He played the game the right way, I think Jimmer can do that if given the chance and coached the right way. Maybe I don't know Jimmer as well as I think , but I think he will be willing to pass first and sacrifice his offensive game for the good of the team. That being said, his potential is what ever he wants to make it.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 6, 2011 8:10 p.m.

    @Captain L

    i think every player has the potential to do whatever...they just need to put the work in...to become that type of player...Jason Kidd didnt have an outside shot till he was old and lost his step...i think for Pros...its important for them to constantly improve and change their game...i think they have that potential to improve their game or to change it...that's why they are in the Pros...

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 6, 2011 9:35 p.m.

    I think JImmer has the right attitude, he just needs an organization and coaching staff that encourages him in the right direction. He'll put in the work.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    June 6, 2011 11:38 p.m.

    @Captain L

    i agree...i think the kid has the potential...i sure hope the jazz get him...i hate to be the guy saying..."i told you so"...when jimmer explodes...

  • shaybo Richfield, UT
    June 9, 2011 9:03 p.m.

    Jan Veseley is moving up the draft lists 6'11" small forward freaky athlete might be the answer for the Jazz as well.

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    June 10, 2011 11:38 a.m.

    I have been on the Kanter bandwagon for a month or more and I still like him but I watched some video of him (although it was HS) and he was terrible on D. No effort, standing straight, hands down, acted like he could care less. I still think he is tremdously talented but that causes me some concern.
    Vessely may end up being a very good pick, I just worry when a player can't shoot, 47% free throw shooter isn't encouraging.
    Knight may be OK , he is smart and his coach says he works real hard.
    I think Jimmer will work just as hard and is smart and will adjust to what ever is asked of him.
    To me the best senario would be to get a big at 3 and Jimmer at 12.
    I like BB and if we took Knight at 3 and got BB at 12, I'd like that.

  • shaybo Richfield, UT
    June 11, 2011 10:16 a.m.

    I don't believe Knight is better than Fredette at anything, he is not worthy of being the 3rd pick in the draft plus he has weaknesses, can't go left or finish, both of which Fredette can. He could improve on the going left part but finishing is not something that is going to just come to him once he gets in the NBA, he will probably never be a good finisher which is imperative for a playmaking point guard.

    I can't believe that someone like Veseley who is a pretty good 3 point shooter won't get a lot better on the foul line so i'm not that worried about that.