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BYU basketball: Jimmer FredetteÂ’s spiritual side

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  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    March 7, 2011 11:36 a.m.

    Jimmer has been and will continue to be a great ambassador and missionary for the church. He's already accomplished a lot just by being a good example of living the gospel.

  • Dewey Hewson Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 7, 2011 12:15 p.m.

    "(Being a missionary for the church) means more to me that being a good basketball player," Fredette says.

    Oh, I suppose that's why he didn't go, then.

    Don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a person who chooses not to go on a mission, but I loathe doublespeak.

  • Skippy West Jordan, UT
    March 7, 2011 12:18 p.m.

    Jimmer does really seem like a great guy and I do hope things go well for him in the NBA.

    I keep seeing this picture with Jimmer and Kupets and I always wonder what they were laughing about. I know they both seem like funny guys. (I think Kupets is saying to him, Hey Jimmer, I got two hot sisters that want to meet you!)

  • johnnylingo62 Gray, TN
    March 7, 2011 12:36 p.m.

    From where I live in TN, I can assure you that Jimmer is being a good "Missionary- Ambassador" for the LDS Church. I consider this a "tag-team" operation where "doors may be open" because of Jimmer's accomplishments on the court, AND more importantly his humble nature and clean lifestyle, could allow some missionaries into homes to teach some gospel principles.
    I think there are many ways we can ALL be missionaries in today's world besides serving a full-time mission. Jimmer may miss out on some of the joys of being a 2yr full-time missionary now, but I think he will have more to share in the long run, especially as he will be looked at through a microscope if he makes it big in the Pros. How would you like that kind of pressure on you? We should all DO what we can do, and hope others will DO the same.

  • Big Thunder Hurricane, UT
    March 7, 2011 12:40 p.m.

    Jimmer has brought more attention to the LDS Church through his basketball career at BYU than 99 percent of all missionaries. Jimmer may have missed out on what a mission can teach a young man individually, but dont call it doublespeak when he talks of the importance of being a missionary for the church. I wish I would have affected have the people he has while I was on my mission.

  • hier sports Washington, UT
    March 7, 2011 12:44 p.m.

    The same people (fans) who credit JF with being a 'great missionary' would probably be quite disapointed in their own sons if the son(s) chose to forego a mission instead to pursue aspirations of becoming a professional.

    Another point- I was taught, or at least it was my understanding, that chapels were places where behavior should consist of a most respectful manner, ie. reverence.

    I imagine the Fredrete basketball practice scenes playing out in the hallways of chapels; offended some members who regard chapels as places of the Lord's house (Kingdom).

    These comments will surely rile JF's fans, I know, but sometimes love of sports makes people compromise principles that are so preached about.

    Notice: that the most successful BYU athletes (in the professional sense) all choose to not go on missions. (Steve Young, Danny Ainge, Wally Joyner).

    This fact is detrimental to any member trying to teach their children that a mission is so important.

    Some Y' fans will continue to rationalize to serve their love of sports, but in the end, the big man has absolutely no time or regard for the world of sports.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    March 7, 2011 12:59 p.m.

    Dewey Hewson

    Remember the saying "every member a missionary"?

    Serving an 18-month or 2-year full-time proselyting mission isn't the only way of being a missionary.

    It would have been great if Jimmer had served a full-time mission, but being a great basketball player and being a great missionary are not mutually exclusive.

    See President Thomas S. Monson and Kresimir Cosic -- two great missionaries who never served full-time, two-year, proselyting missions.

  • Big_Ben Centerville, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:03 p.m.

    I am not judging the guy, a lot of you are spot on, he has done so much to open doors across the country for the LDS church. People are talking about it a lot and people are asking questions because of the exposure. For that, I applaud him for using his abilities to further the work of the Lord.

    My next point is, I cant take this quote seriously:

    "(Being a missionary for the church) means more to me that being a good basketball player," Fredette says

    Anyone who values being a missionary for the church more than being a basketball player would do what the prophet says. "EVERY" young man should serve a mission (if physically/mentally able to do so).

    My final point is: I grew up wanting more than anything to be a good basketball player, and it didn't work out for me. Jimmer has everything I wanted when I was growing up. I can honestly say, I would not trade the experiences I ahd on my mission for all of the accolades that are sure to come his way. Not now, not ever.

  • Ted H. Midvale, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:08 p.m.

    hier,

    I'm curious what you think of University of Utah or University of Washington athletes who are Mormon and don't go on missions?

    Please - go ahead and tell me that they don't represent the church also. Or will you throw out something lame like "BYU students represent the church MORE, so it doesn't matter about other kids." My response in anticipation of such utter nonsense that so often comes out of the mouthes of BYU haters - this must mean it doesn't matter what kind of person I am because my bishop is MORE responsible for being a good person than me.

    I don't see a single Y fan rationalizing anyone not going on a mission by the attention he might bring from sports success. Similarly, I don't get bent out of shape when a Ute of Washington Husky doensn't go on a mission.

    Jimmer didn't go on a mission. Get over it. And yes, as much as it seemingly pains you Jimmer and his talents can and do appear to be a missionary tool.

    The self righteous hypocrisy from BYU haters is unbelievable.

  • dmumford Provo, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:12 p.m.

    @Dewey - where is the doublespeak? Are we not all called to be member missionaries? What would you have Jimmer say?
    Is it not great that someone of his fame also desires to be an example, regardless of having served a full-time mission?

    @hier sports - Church buildings are obviously multi-purpose facilities - delineating the cultural hall as okay for baskbetball but not the halls can be debated, but if it actually offends someone, I would say to that member, lighten up.

    I don't believe you can purport to 'know' what the big man has time or regard for - but it is obvious that recreation and enjoyment are approved by God, and inasmuch as a sports figure or team can create a positive impression of the church or the Gospel, I would think that is something God "has time for." If not, why does the BYU Football team exist?

  • Cabinfever Las Vegas, NV
    March 7, 2011 1:17 p.m.

    hier sports: "but in the end, the big man has absolutely no time or regard for the world of sports."
    Really? Did He tell you that personally?
    Chapel hallways have kids acting irreverent in them! It happens. Get over it.
    Is Bishop Ainge somehow diminished as a person because he chose not to serve a mission? Some are so quick to make judgements about people and their personal circumstances of which they no absolutely nothing!

  • Be Practical Sandy, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:19 p.m.

    To hier sports

    Let me ask you, is the point of a mission to serve yourself or serve the Lord? If it is to serve the Lord, which I submit that it is, there are other ways for some people to serve which are by far more effective than a 2 year proselyting mission. Countless people have come into the Church as the result of the example and testimony of a Donny Osmond, Danny Ainge, or Steve Young, more so than perhaps many a full-time missionary.

    Conversely, I have seen missionaries come into the field who had no business being there. I had a companion who wouldn't get out of bed before 9:00. There was another Elder in my district who was sent home because he couldn't stop flirting with the young ladies. Those guys did more damage than good by being there. A full time mission simply isn't for everyone.

    As far as practicing in the church hallways, that's not part of the chapel, it's just simply part of the building, like the cultural hall is part of the building, or shouldn't they play B-Ball in there either?

  • metamoracoug metamora, IL
    March 7, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    heir sports:

    "in the end, the big man has absolutely no time or regard for the world of sports."

    I disagree with you.

    As a dad, I take great pleasure anytime I get to watch my children excel: one is a wonderful piano player (and she's only 12!); another is a good writer (25 and published); another excels in almost every way academically; another was a good cross country runner.

    I really don't think God is much different from me in this matter. He enjoys seeing his children excel in whatever righteous endeavor they attempt. Is sports the most important thing in regard to their salvation? Of course not. But the discipline and self-mastery and hard work that leads to athletic proficiency are all qualities which must be employed to develop spirituality.

    Bottom line is, I think you are drawing the line a little too dark between temporal and spiritual things.

  • Solomon the Wise Alpine, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:30 p.m.

    The Pharisses and Sadducees worried so much about the tiny details of the law, that they completely failed to understand to the spirit of the law.

    Modern day judges in Israel should keep that in mind when judging Jimmer for choosing to fulfill his missionary obligation via a different path than a serving a two-year, full-time mission.

  • AZRods Maricopa, AZ
    March 7, 2011 1:32 p.m.

    I think we would all do well to avoid judging JF, lest we are judged for what we do or don't do with the talents we are given.
    I knew missionaries in my mish. that were not there for the right reasons and
    did not serve with all their heart.
    So are they some how better than JF just because they went throught the motions?
    I seriously doubt it.
    I home teach a lady in AZ who joined the church last year because of her admiration of the Osmond family.
    Our lives will be measured in many different ways, but in the end I think there are many ways to be effective members and missionaries.
    And I for one will not judge another for their choices.
    Especially not the Jimmer.
    Sincerely, an ASU fan.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:32 p.m.

    Big_Ben

    Do you honestly think that HE (Jimmer) thinks that he is not doing missionary work by playing bball at BYU the past 4 years? I think his mission IS playing bball. I have heard of many people who have served several missions in their lives with many different kinds of missions (full-time two year, welfare, temple, etc, etc). Your last statement, " I can honestly say, I would not trade the experiences I ahd on my mission for all of the accolades that are sure to come his way", how do you know what accolades will come his way. What if he were to bring in hundreds of converts around the world due to his bball playing. Do you think that he would have found that many on a 2-year mission? Come on and face it, he is doing a wonderful job for the Church and I doubt he would do anything close to what he is doing now for the Church and BYU. We could all sit here and say "What if", but anyone's serving a full two-year mission is between them and the Lord, not them and you!

  • SammyB Provo, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:33 p.m.

    Danny Ainge's father was a good friend and he said that the prophet asked Danny, just as he did Donny Osmond, to serve a different kind of mission. Don't judge.

  • annie Tomball, TX
    March 7, 2011 1:36 p.m.

    I loved my mission but I don't feel like I can judge others who don't choose the same as me. Please, people, let others make their own decisions. Don't ask people when they are getting married and having children either. Mind your own business.

  • Big_Ben Centerville, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:49 p.m.

    Eddie,

    You make some great points and I agree with a lot of what you say. I think you are assuming I said things that I never said.

    The first thing I pointed out was that Jimmer has done a fantastic job of representing his faith on a large stage. People are asking questions about the church and he has become a "one name only" celebrity. It has done great things for the missionary effort.

    Yes, the prophet has said that every member should be a missionary. Jimmer has done a fantastic job of being a member missionary. I can't applaud him enough.

    The prophet has also said that each worthy young man should serve a full-time mission. I think anyone who values being a missionary more than anything else (in this case a basketball player), would heed that call (if physically able), put aside everything else for two years, and do it!

    Plenty of people who go on missions are bums. Plenty of people who didn't go on a mission are faithful members of the church. I am just saying that I don't agree with his statement.

    that being said, I applaud him, loudly.

  • Ted H. Midvale, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:51 p.m.

    Eddie,

    I don't particulary care for bennie boy too often - but he's right on this one. I treasure my mission experiences and wouldnt change them for anything.

    I'm not for bashing Jimmer at all, but to counter your point couldn't Jimmer have gone on a mission AND then come back and brought hundreds into the church as you say? Going on a mission wouldnt have meant he couldnt have come back and been a great baller still.

    He could have done both.

    That being said - I still doubt the majority criticizing Jimmer would be doing the same to a Mormon Ute, which shows their serious lack of gospel comprehension in my opinion.

  • Big_Ben Centerville, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:52 p.m.

    To Eddie (continued)

    No one should judge him on his decision. Its between him and the Lord. I had missionaries that I served with who came out for the wrong reasons, and they drove me nuts!

    As far as the statements about accolades, sorry, but you are really stretching there. I meant sports achievements. I wouldn't trade my mission for any athletic achievement in the world. That is not to single him out, thats just how strongly I feel about my mission.

  • DRay Roy, UT
    March 7, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    "Jimmered" music video made me smile, then laught, and lifted my spirits today as I've been "Jimmered" by the stomach flu and feeling blue. Lavell, Chad, Shawn, please make more music...I didn't know men who sing as bad as I do could become such rocking-stars! I'm headed to the piano to bang on some keys, no one here to hear me, so I'll sing great for sure! Thanks for the music, and the video. God bless.

  • Mount Olympus Holladay, UT
    March 7, 2011 2:08 p.m.

    Ted H.
    I'm curious what you think of University of Utah or University of Washington athletes who are Mormon and don't go on missions?

    Britton Johnsen went to the NCAA title game as a Freshman. He had the body and talent to make the NBA. He decided to go on a mission instead of play basketball. He gave up millions of dollars and an NBA career to go on a mission.

    Britton was on the 1997 McDonalds all-american team, look who else was on the team:

    Ron Artest

    Shane Battier

    Elton Brand

    Baron Davis

    Khalid El-Amin

    Marcus Fizer

    Dion Glover

    Brendan Haywood

    Larry Hughes

    Ryan Humphrey

    Tracy McGrady

    Lamar Odom

  • RoxyLynne Madison, IN
    March 7, 2011 2:10 p.m.

    That is not an example I want my sons to emulate. The message, no matter what people say, is that his talent and potential to make a lot of money through his talent, allows him to not serve a mission. This is not a person or example I want my 16 and 18 year old sons to follow. Give me names of people who join the church because of JF or any of the aforementioned famous people. How many did they physically baptize? How much are they sacrificing to bring souls to the Gospel????? Really, people? There is absolutely no equating what he is doing to serving a mission. Service, sacrifice. Not even close.

  • Ted H. Midvale, UT
    March 7, 2011 2:25 p.m.

    Mount Olympus,

    While we're compiling lists that prove we really didn't understand the conversiation, allow me to list my favorite ice cream flavors:

    Chocolate

    Cookies and Cream

    Fudge Ripple

    Bubblegum(a classic)

    Rocky Road

    Moose Tracks

  • royalblue Alpine, UT
    March 7, 2011 2:28 p.m.

    It's interesting all these judges questioning Jimmer's missionary service as discussed in an interview on Mormon Times TV. It seems pretty clear that the church is very pleased with Jimmer's efforts in missionary service.

    I feel sorry for people who think they have the insight to judge others as if every situation was the same.

  • Ted H. Midvale, UT
    March 7, 2011 2:31 p.m.

    Mount Olympus,

    I'll make this real simple:

    Imagine I said "What do you think of green M&M?"

    The equivalent of your response is "Yes there are brown M&M's I'll show you."

    My response: Did I say there weren't brown M&M's?

  • Big_Ben Centerville, UT
    March 7, 2011 2:39 p.m.

    Ted H @ 2:25, that became my all time favorite post on these forums, ever. Nice work.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    March 7, 2011 2:41 p.m.

    I wonder how many of you calling Fredette a "Great Missionary" are also the same ones that slammed David Archuletta for choosing fame over a mission?

    Also, how many of you condemned Davies? He has done a lot to actually raise the profile of the LDS Church even if his conduct wasn't to the rules. The ability for LDS to talk to non church members about LDS standards has done more for Mormons than Fredette has done.

    I hope Davies can finish an education, I don't care if he is a good example or not, I don't judge him, that is not for me to do.

    While I don't believe playing basketball replaces the hard and difficult work of being a missionary, it is between a young man and God.

    I know people that went on missions that are no longer LDS, I know some that didn't go and are still in the fold. It is not the measure of a good person.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    March 7, 2011 3:16 p.m.

    ------royalblue | 2:28 p.m. March 7, 2011
    Alpine, UT
    It seems pretty clear that the church is very pleased with Jimmer's efforts in missionary service.------

    Strange, I don't recall President Monson saying all able young men should serve a mission unless your name is Jimmer.

    As I said before, it is between you and God if you chose to serve a mission.

    Playing basketball, doing what you love, fame are not a mission. It is mission type work but it is not a mission. It is not putting your life in danger, doors slammed in your face, hostile people, long cold walks or bike rides and the sacrifice it takes to bring people to the gospel. Is he doing some good, possibly but it is not equivalent.

  • Mount Olympus Holladay, UT
    March 7, 2011 3:20 p.m.

    Re: TedH

    The point is the best BYU athletes don't go on missions.

    The best Ute basketball player ever did.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    March 7, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt

    I seem to recall the Savior saying, "judge not, that ye be not judged".

    There seems to be a lot of judging going on here.

    Who are you to judge that what constitutes a mission?

    btw, President Monson didn't serve full time mission.

  • byu_num_1 Holladay, UT
    March 7, 2011 3:43 p.m.

    Re:TedH

    MountOlympus did bring up a good point. The bestever 19 year old mormon basketball player (Britton Johnsen) did go on a mission, and he went to the U of U. (what you were asking)

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 7, 2011 3:51 p.m.

    @heir

    There are two parts tpo an LDS churchhouse, the chappel and the rest of it. The rest of it is a multi purpose building used for all maner of activities. On Sundays it is all used for meeting and teaching purposes. On other days of the week it is used for those things as well as all sorts or otherthings. When I was a youth for Mutual we put on a haunted house with ghosts, witch's, demons, skeletons, graves, coffins, and all sorts of other decidely non holy stuff. The entire stake attended including the stake president and we all had a pretty good time. We use the cultural hall as well as the hallways and classrooms and just about every other room except the chappel.

    So lighten up.

    Also big ben looks for reasons to pretend he is complimenting BYU, or its athletes, while he is really trying to cut them down. This is just another example of that. I have never once read anything by him similarly criticizing a university of utah athlete and doubt I ever will. Backhanded compliments for Cougars are his specialty.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:02 p.m.

    Lots of self righteous ute "fans" on here trying to knock Jimmer down. We all know he hasn't gone on a 2 year full time LDS church mission. He has never claimed to and he has never claimed to be one. In the interview they asked him about being a missionary for the church in much the same manner all of us that are LDS are missionaries for the church. He humbly, and correctly, stated that was more important to him than any notoriety or acclaim he receives from playing basketball. That was it. That is the best answer I have ever heard a member give. He values the example he sets, which is what member missionary work is all about, over everything else. He gets it and he is right.

    Those of you "holier than thou because I served a full time mission" types are perhaps the worst member missionaries in the church. Your condesention to a good young man who has done good things is duly noted by those that read your posts. I have no doubt you are also the types that gossip about everyone in your ward and have high standards for everyone else.

  • Al Bundy murray, ut
    March 7, 2011 4:04 p.m.

    Who is everyone to judge? It is Jimmers choice, Everyone still loves Steve Young and he played on Sundays!

  • Big_Ben Centerville, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:17 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    I am not trying to cut anyone down. If you are looking to be offended by my comments, I can't help you.

    Yes, I dont judge anyone who chooses not to go on a mission. Personal choice. Everyone knows where the prophet stands on the issue.

    If a Ute player said "Being a missionary for my church is more important to me than being a good athlete" and then they turned down the opportunity to heed a Prophet's call to do real missionary work, to sacrifice with that in mind, I would call them out.

    When an LDS athlete chooses not to go on a mission, I feel bad for them, because they will miss out on great experiences. But if thats their choice, thats their choice. I just don't like the choice of words.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:24 p.m.

    I have a friend who was kidnapped on his mission in South America. The family's biggest fear was the kidnappers would find out his dad worked for the CIA, because either the ransom would go up or he would be killed. He was retrieved safely.

    Where on earth could Donny Osmond have served a mission and been safe? How would anyone know if the girl was interested in the gospel, or hearing it from Donny?

    Danny Ainge, Gifford Nielsen, Steve Young, Dale Murphy didn't serve missions. Danny is a bishop, Murphy was a mission president, Gifford is now an Area Authority Seventy, all have spoken at hundreds of firesides, some televised.

    I played D-1 football, went on a mission, didn't play when I returned. For years I resented the accolades the above received when I "sacrificed" for a mission. My lack of football achievement had nothing to do with THEIR actions and everything to do with my choosing not to play when I returned.

    Personally, I'm more impressed with how Jimmer has handled all of the attention than I am by his achievements. I'll leave Jimmer's choice up to Jimmer and God.

  • Skippy West Jordan, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:28 p.m.

    People seem to forget that in October 2002(?) Pres. Hinkley changed his stance on every young man serving a mission. Read his talk from the priesthood session of general conference. Everyone has a choice to make and Jimmer made his. We should not judge him in any way, just like it is not our place to judge Brandon Davies.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:32 p.m.

    SammyB,

    You need to check out Vai Sikahema's blog right after General Conference last October. He was told by a member of the Quorum of the Seventy that no athlete at BYU or anywhere else has ever been granted an official exemption from serving a full time mission. That same general authority told him the only reason the Osmonds were granted that exemption was because of their international fame by the time they were 19. It would have been impossible to send them anywhere and not have them followed by young ladies. They would never have been able to work as missionaries.

    I don't differentiate between LDS athletes at BYU or any other university. They all have the duty to go, if they are priesthood holders. Knowing a little more of Jimmer's background sheds some light on the situation. With a Catholic mother, he was not likely raised with the idea of serving a mission foremost in his mind. Also, I saw Alex Jensen (former Ute) speak at a youth fireside about his decision to go and he stated he realized one day that there should be no question and the answer was obviously yes.

  • Oh, please! Saint George, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:33 p.m.

    hier sports | 12:44 p.m. March 7, 2011
    Washington, UT

    You write of reverence and respect and then YOU refer to Our Father in Heaven as the "big man." That is the supreme level of disrespect.

    As far as bouncing a ball in the meetinghouse halls, it's a lot more respectful than many young children running and screaming through them during ward dinners, scout meetings, etc.

  • Granny Saint George, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:43 p.m.

    @RoxyLynne | 2:10 p.m.

    "That is not an example I want my sons to emulate. The message, no matter what people say, is that his talent and potential to make a lot of money through his talent, allows him to not serve a mission. This is not a person or example I want my 16 and 18 year old sons to follow. Give me names of people who join the church because of JF or any of the aforementioned famous people. How many did they physically baptize? How much are they sacrificing to bring souls to the Gospel????? Really, people? There is absolutely no equating what he is doing to serving a mission. Service, sacrifice. Not even close."

    Hey, Roxy...so if I as a full-time female missionary bring others to Christ and I don't physically baptize them, am I not sacrificing? I can't physically do that because I don't hold the priesthood. What about the missionary efforts of Gladys Knight? I don't think JF really is motivated by the potential $$ of the NBA. Sounds like you have an attitude problem and some sour grapes to enjoy.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:45 p.m.

    @Big Ben

    That is not what Jimmer said. He was asked a question about being a missionary for the church. Not going on a full time mission, but being a missionary in exactly the manner all of us are supposed to be missionaries and he answered it exactly how I would expect him to answer it aknowledging that being that sort of missionary is more important to him than anything else.

    It is you, and other similar minded "missionaries" that want to pretend he is taking credit where he doesn't deserve it. He isn't. He has never made an issue of his choice, others have. He has never tried to pretend he is anything more than he is.

    You go ahead and be prideful in your missionary service to the point of thinking it is above all else. Then go ahead and call some more BYU fans "holier than thou" in some upcoming post. I'll personally leave the judgement of whose service is most meaningful to he who is more qualified to make that distinction than I am.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:45 p.m.

    I just have to answer some of these comments.

    Jimmer may very well have chosen not to go on a mission because he was promted that way. Steve Young went home at Christmas his freshman year fully intending to put his papers in and go on a mission. He was told in a blessing from his bishop that he was not to go on a mission and he was instead to go back to BYU and play football. Donny Osmond was also ready to serve a mission. He was told by the President of the Church that what he was doing was more important and that he should continue with his music career.

    Jimmer's role as a basketball player has been very important to serving the Church and the Lord. For many, it is right to serve a regular two-year mission. But, that is not the path for everyone. Sometimes the Lord has another path for us and that's what we should follow.

    Jimmer is doing just great and I wouldn't ever question his sincerity.

  • steve84088 Orem, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:46 p.m.

    Whether Britton Johnsen is Utah's greatest LDS ballplayer is highly debateable. What about Jeff Judkins, Tom Chambers or Danny Vranes, all having palyed in the NBA and none of them served missions! Judge not lest ye be judged.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:47 p.m.

    I had a college roomate who was a convert. He had a lot of sisters who idolized the Osmonds, this leading to their conversion. General Authorities often speak in generalities and have admitted that. My only brother-in-law never served a mission. He has served as a Bishop, High Council, high school teacher and principal. He has a son and a grandson serve a mission. We are making to much of an issue of this.

  • Tommy2Shoes Lehi, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:49 p.m.

    I'm a Cougar fan and season ticket holder. Jimmer has been a great example of sportsmanship and talent. I wish he had served a mission like I did and like my 3 sons and two son-in-laws, but he said that he prayed about it and felt that he shouldn't serve. I hope he gets many chances to serve in other ways and maybe end up as a mission president some day. Every member needs to seek the direction of the Holy Spirit for confirmation that they are following Heavenly Father's plan for them. I hope for the best for Jimmer. Get married in the Temple. Become a father. Raise worthy children. Serve the Lord. Continue to provide an inspiring example of how one can develop the talents that are God given.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    March 7, 2011 4:50 p.m.

    Mount Olympus | 3:20 p.m. March 7, 2011
    Holladay, UT
    Re: TedH

    The point is the best BYU athletes don't go on missions.

    The best Ute basketball player ever did.
    ------------
    "The best Ute player ever"? Uh, no.

    Britton came off the bench when he was 19. Danny Ainge was All-Conference and the best player on his team for four years and when he was 19 played with two other McDonalds All-Americans, Fred Roberts and Devin Durrant. The Cougars won the WAC title that year, and went to the Elite 8 in his Senior year when he was named POY by two different organizations.

    Britton isn't close to being the best Utah player ever. Off the top of my head Ute players better than Britton: Mike Newlin, Ticky Burden, Tom Chambers, Andre Miller, Keith Van Horn, Andrew Bogut, Billy McGill, Danny Vranes.

    Cougars better than Britton: Ainge, Kresmir Cosic, Jimmer, Roberts, Durrant, Greg Kite, Rolan Minson, Dick Nemelka, Michael Smith, Mekeli Wesley, Jim Eakins, Rafael Araujo, Timo Saarelainen, etc...

  • Kyle loves BYU/Jazz Provo, UT
    March 7, 2011 5:45 p.m.

    People place too much emphasis on GOING on a mission when in reality its not about going its about BECOMING a missionary.

    I haven't spent a lot of time around Jimmer but from what I've seen personally and from everything in the media, Jimmer is a really good kid! That is what matters!

    Yes missions really help young men to become better men but not all missionaries become great or even good men and many young men who don't go on missions become great men and missionaries.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 7, 2011 5:54 p.m.

    The comments on these pages from Utah LDS members only proves that there are two worlds in the church --- Utah members and everyone else.

    I'm not from Utah but live here now and have realized the self-righteousness that streams from every pore of Utah Mormons. It's disgusting and it make living here intolerable at times.

    I've never seen so many people speak for the Lord and God. It's clear that many of you don't know about the conversation Steve Young had with Gordon B about serving a mission.

    To those who say Jimmer isn't serving a real mission like you did, I say you didn't learn much while on your mission about being an example of the Lord and His gospel.

    I truly don't understand the mentality of the Utah Mormon and wish all of you born and raised only in Utah actually had to move out of state for 10 years so you could see the real world of being LDS. You live in a bubble and don't even know it!

    Go Jimmer Go!

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    March 7, 2011 6:20 p.m.

    To those that say Jimmer got a diffrent answer must not understand the Lords laws of revelation. Revelation will always be in harmony with the revalotors. 1st section of the Doctrine and Covenants. Two talks in General Conference quoted Joseph Smith saying the Lord will not reveal individually what he has already revealed collectively.

    And will not reveal a new revelation when one has already been received. The Lord already said what he wanted all young men to do. As for President Monson not serving, At his time the Mission Home was closed and people were not called very frequently. It was not a decree. Since it has been a decree every worthy able young man is to go on a mission.

    The Lord already spoke on the matter. It is up to the individual to decide if he will follow. As those that should not be out there and those that didn't go but are leaders. There is a greater percentage of returned missionaries that are active in the church than people that did not go on missions.

  • nottyou Riverton, UT
    March 7, 2011 6:36 p.m.

    Let's see, is the quote, I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves, or is it "I teach them correct principles, and then force them to obey?" Serving a mission is a very personal decision. We know what the prophet's admonition is, but if a young man doesn't go on a mission, he can still hold a temple recommend and enjoy EVERY blessing that Heavenly Father has for his children. I personally wouldn't exchange my missionary experience for anything, but that is hindsight. Give the guy a break as he breaks your ankles and does his own thing in spreading the gospel. Judge not, and use the whole situation as a teaching opportunity.

  • Richard Saunders Provo, UT
    March 7, 2011 6:45 p.m.

    @ Uncle Charles
    I'm with you man! Utah Mormons judge! Utah Mormons put all those not like them into a group and then they insult that group! Utah Mormons live in a bubble, not knowing that where someone is born doesn't decide what kind of person they are! Utah Mormons are... wait, what was the point I was trying to make? Oh yeah, I hate Utah Mormons. (do you see even a little bit how that could be considered the same thing?)

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    March 7, 2011 7:08 p.m.

    Beautiful posts tonight...

    I personally did not serve a mission because I was raised partially in the mission-field, and did not want to be around a bunch of self righteous twent-year-olds who the year before were in highschool and now spoke with authority about the gospel.

    I spoke to God about it, and he was cool with it.

    What kills me is all the people who really spend two years of their lives to bring people closer to the lord, and return and drive everyone away with their attitudes.

    You posters that had wonderful mission experiences, great fot you.

    But leave everyone of us that chose a different path alone, and spend some time raising your kids to be as "precious" as you are.

  • ryansaltlake SLC, UT
    March 7, 2011 7:38 p.m.

    I totally understand why Jimmer chose not to go on a mission. His dad is a convert and didn't serve a mission; his older brother didn't serve a mission; and I would guess he saw very few (if any) in his very small branch in Glens Falls serve a mission. His church background is different than the vast majority who end up serving. I would say most young men currently serving would not have made the decision to serve if they had Jimmer's church background. Add to this the fact that at 19 years old he clearly had NBA potential. I heard him give an interview where he said he prayed about a mission and felt he should stay and keep playing BYU basketball. I know I wouldn't trade my mission experience for anything. I still think Jimmer is an exceptional person and I hope he continues to be a great ambassador for the church.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    March 7, 2011 7:42 p.m.

    Veritas your assessment of selfrigthteous people as your justification for not fulfilling a Priesthood responsibility the Lord has already asked all worthy young men to do better describes you than the "self righteous people" you described.

    The Lords house is not a house of confusion. Why would the Lord call revelators if we did not need to listen to them? Was there a sin you did not want to get off of your chest and you used other peoples follies as an excuse not to fulfill your priesthood responsibility?

    There are some people that been on missions that are how you describe. But for the most part those that went are Young Men who obeyed the Lord on that matter.

    Your post are you the one with the beam in your eyes. We all have things to work on. Don't use other peoples excuses as a reason to exempt yourself from fulfilling your obligations. People that go on missions come back better men than people that didn't.

    And people speak with authority about the gospel because they are called of God and sent apart by one with authority. Who the Lord calls he qualifies.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    March 7, 2011 8:39 p.m.

    @higv

    Serious?

    Dude, who are you, my mom? Wait, she doesn't lay the drama on as thick as you.

    Like I said, God was cool with it, why shouldn't I be? Who am I to question him?

    And so goes it for Jimmer.

    He's cool with his decision, but everyone that spent two years feels the need to guilt everyone who didn't.

    I wonder how many people your particular attitude has driven away from the church?

    You make my point perfectly. Why spend two years just to come back and make anyone not up to your standards wish they would have slept in Sunday?

    I'm 50 plus years old now, and much more suited for a mission than when I was 19. This time I'm going to do it with the most beautiful, spiritual person I know for a companion. And I have two lovely daughters that are on their way to being Queens in the Kingdom.

    Jimmer may well serve, as I do, in a different capacity than as a 19-year-old-know-it-all. Why not let him make his call.

    There's more to the gospel than two years.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    March 7, 2011 8:54 p.m.

    higv | 7:42 p.m. March 7, 2011
    Dietrich, ID

    People that go on missions come back better men than people that didn't.

    ===
    For really...

    Man, you can pontificate to me anytime.

    Ponder this truth.

    Everyone that is twenty-one is better than when they were nineteen. RM's just think it was the mission.

    ===

    Jimmer did more by helping the kid from Wyoming up off the floor than most kids do in two years.

    The team's and fan's love shown Saturday did more for Brandon Davies soul than you spouting talking points does for anyone.

    But that's life.

    I have the lord.

    You have the church.

  • TheSpiker Alpine, UT
    March 7, 2011 9:36 p.m.

    higv

    It's a good thing that we have that whole "free agency" thing going for us, isn't it? I'm trying to recall whose plan it was to eliminate it, or at least make it unimportant. Oh yeah, now I remember. Do you?

    Signed, a return missionary, a life long missionary, and future senior missionary.

  • Wldflwr Lehi, UT
    March 7, 2011 10:20 p.m.

    Big Ben "I wouldn't trade my mission for any athletic achievement in the world. That is not to single him out, thats just how strongly I feel about my mission.
    Do you really think Jimmer is not going on a mission in order to achieve athletic achievements? Do you think he may not feel as strongly about what he is doing for the Church than you do about your mission? With what Jimmer has accomplished in basketball could possibly bring more attention to the LDS church than he could by knocking on doors. Who is to say that your way of serving is better than his in bringing others to ask questions about the Church?
    Just because Jimmer may not serve the way some people think he should, does not mean that he will receive any less blessings than they will. And if one does,then one judges unjustly.

    Go Jimmer and Go Cougars!

  • dallas realist rockwall, texas
    March 7, 2011 11:10 p.m.

    God does not need us to serve missions. he is God. he can convert people in another way. we need us to serve missions because it helps us grow. whatever that mission may be. playin ball and representing the church is a good way to serve if you ask me. the pressures he feels and all the questions he has to answer are far beyond what i did on my mission. everyone is watching him all the time. and he has not slipped at all. my mission was good for me, his mission is good for him. everyone learns in a different way.

  • Osgrath Provo, UT
    March 8, 2011 12:18 a.m.

    The Lord's house is a house of order, but every individual is entitled to personal revelation. General policy applies, but exceptions are made. For example, I suffer from diabetes. Fasting two meals could cause dangerous drops in blood sugar, possibly resulting in coma, or could cause liver damage.Therefore ecclesiastical advisors tell me not to fast more than one meal. Does that put me at odds with Church policy that I should fast two meals? Yes. Is it acceptable that I do not? Yes!
    So why would people condemn Jimmer Fredette for not taking out two years and thus have no chance at an NBA career? Only rarely does an individual that opportunity, rarer still that such individuals have anywhere near Jimmers level of character.
    Whether Jimmer goes on a full-time mission is nobody's business but his, between him and the Lord. Anyone criticizing him for not going is hypocritical unless they would be willing to personally castigate anyone else who doesn't serve - but doing so would reveal them as not only judgmental and opinionated but rude and lacking in basic social skills: they would hardly be good representatives of the Church.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    March 8, 2011 6:57 a.m.

    I judge no one, if someone chooses to go or not is between him/her and the Lord. Whatever you chose in life, be good to others. The distinction I make is that missionary type work such as raising the profile of the LDS Church is different than a full time mission. I do not state one is better than another, the level of sacrifice is different though.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    March 8, 2011 7:18 a.m.

    Makes you wonder how many young men will be encouraged by Jimmer's example to forgo a set-apart mission in favor of an athletic mission.

  • Hey It's Me Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2011 8:09 a.m.

    For those that critize Jimmer for not going on a mission,I'm glad you're not the judge some day. He's has touched more lives through playing basketball and being a good example that some missionaries. Jimmer is talked about nationwide and probably other countries in the world. He is using his God Given Talents to spread the word. My brother-in-law never served a mission and he wasn't a pro athlete or singer, but he has served his curch faithfully and has been in Stake Presidencies etc. I feel sorry for those who cast the first stonein regards to someone else's free agency!!!!

  • Hey It's Me Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2011 8:32 a.m.

    @RoxyLynn, Can you tell me howmissionaries actually convert or baptize someone. There are a lot that return home and never have that experience. However, They planted many seeds that may grow someday and they will never know. So as a missionary it's not the numbers you convert or baptize it is getting the message to as many people as possible.

  • NHCougar Somersworth, NH
    March 8, 2011 8:42 a.m.

    I really enjoyed watching that video about Jimmer's spiritual side. I for one admire his testimony and humility. For the last 5+ years I've worked for a Fortune 100 company. All of my coworkers know I'm a BYU alumni and a member of the church. I've had a few missionary experiences at work and even had the privilege of baptizing a co-worker a few years ago.

    The last few months as "Jimmer-mania" has been spreading across the basketball landscape, I've had more conversations at work about the church and BYU then I have for all of the previous 5 years. And with the BYU honor code the media topic of choice last week even more inquiries came in. These inquiries of the 'rules' of the honor code gave me opportunities to share my testimony.

    Jimmer's decision to serve a mission is between him and the Lord, but there's no doubt he's created missionary opportunities for me.

  • LivinLarge Bountiful, UT
    March 8, 2011 8:45 a.m.

    Classy, and I believe every word he says. Congratulations to Jimmer's parents for raising such a fine young man!

  • ute-chute Beverly Hills, CA
    March 8, 2011 9:00 a.m.

    higv | 7:42 p.m. March 7, 2011
    Dietrich, ID

    Was there a sin you did not want to get off of your chest and you used other peoples follies as an excuse not to fulfill your priesthood responsibility?
    .........

    I cannot believe the audacity of your judgemental stance.

    So, to you, anyone who doesn't serve, makes that choice because they are not worthy, let alone those who do serve without confessing all sins?

    Jimmer, Ainge, Young all had sins?

    Some people are better off not being little cookie cutter mormons.

    Why force the issue?

  • In Arizona Mesa, AZ
    March 8, 2011 9:08 a.m.

    Who Am I To Judge Another When I Walk Imperfectly?

    We sing that Hym quite often but yet look at so many people passing judgement, one way or the other, at this young man.

  • Big_Ben Centerville, UT
    March 8, 2011 9:20 a.m.

    Wldflwr,

    you completely missed what I was saying. Go back, and read it again. you are essentially putting words in my mouth, and then arguing with me over the words you put in my mouth. If that helps you feel better, go for it.

    This thread has been a good one. To those of you who have presented your views in a non-condescening way, I appreciate it. I felt like I was able to consider other points of view and learn a lot. I feel like my view on this issue was shaped for the better.

    Above all else I have said, I am glad that there are great examples at BYU, such as Jimmer. Anything that opens doors to the Gospel is a great thing. I believe that God gives each of us gifts to help accomplish His work. Jimmer (from what I can see) is using his to help the good work move along.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    March 8, 2011 9:28 a.m.

    We can all quote prophets and apostles until we're 'blue' in the face, but the bottom line is Jimmer Fredette, just like all of us, is responsible for his own life. He'll have opportunities to make up for mistakes, just like the rest of us. We all need to be less judgemental of each other. Leave that to the Lord and the Church leaders he has put in positions to represent Him.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 8, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    -----

    Dear Richard, those who know, know. It's apparent that you don't know. Go live in another state for at least 5 years, move back here and you'll know. Those of us from outside Utah laugh at the Utah Mormons. And to us, from outside Utah, it's actually common knowledge and a joke.

    I just met up with a friend from high school, hadn't seen each other in 30 years and we both said that it was close to time to move back to AZ because we didn't want our children to grow up as Utah Mormons. We both just laughed in agreement.

    @higv: do you not read the previous posts before you comment. Many high profile LDS young men have been advised from the prophet to members of the Q12 to NOT go on a mission and that what they were doing was better for them and the church.

    There are exceptions to your "divinely inspired" revelation knowledge and understanding. If you have problems with what Jimmer is doing maybe you should make an appointment with someone at 47 South Temple in SLC.

  • TizTheSeason logan, utah
    March 8, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    I don't condemn Jimmer for not serving a 2 year mission but I have a hard time elevating him to the same "Missionary" status as those that are currently obediently serving. They are "Apples and Oranges". Being LDS I see Jimmer more as a Missionary tool for BYU and its adoring fans first. If people join the Church because of Jimmer there is something missing. His power of example, no question is great, but there is a big difference in that power versus the power of the Spirit that is brought into a persons life from an "Ordained Missionary" we need to be careful not to get the two mixed up.

  • TizTheSeason logan, utah
    March 8, 2011 10:21 a.m.

    part 2: I will always have a great regard for those young men that choose obedience and a full time mission first before the glories and passions of men, Regardless. We as LDS members also need to be careful not to pick and choose which of the counsel's of a Prophet we follow to justify obedience and personal happiness. Like the song states...."Sacrifice brings for the blessings of Heaven". I think at times we as a society are becoming less and less willing to make those sacrifices to leave everything behind and be obedient.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2011 10:56 a.m.

    According to Collie if you live right and do the right things, then magic happens. Which explains the concussions he has had. I wonder if he did something wrong to get concussions.

    Now Davies was caught in the act, but, was still a great player. Never the less he was finally kicked off the team. A decision I respect BYU for doing. They have an honor code and they should expect everyone who signs the dotted line to commit to it. Even if you're an athlete and are important to the team and school.

    I was just waiting for them to do a story on the spiritual side of Frederette. I'm sure he's a nice guy. However, I wouldn't place too much credit or focus soo much on one person to "spread" the message. Look at David Archuletta, great singer but doesn't want to serve a mission. So if you have talents then you're exempt or can decide which mission you serve? Sends a mix signal.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    March 8, 2011 11:14 a.m.

    His decision to not serve a mission is certainly his business. Furthermore, for "high profile" celebrities, the institutional decision to not have them serve makes sense. Asking David Archuletta to go tracting, for example, is probably not realistic. The media attention, and local publicity would detract from the intent of the Mission. The same was true for Donny Osmond back in his day. Arguing that "their mission is to be ambassadors" is strictly hyperbole though, as the fact is, traditional missions would be impractical for these individuals. Is Fredette in this clase celebrity fame, that this would apply? It's hard to say, particularly knowing of Shawn Bradley's experience. Furthermore, he is a senior, so at least one could argue that his disqualifying celebrity ascension occured after his initial missionary eligibility.

    What really bothers me about that, is not that Fredette gets a pass, but that within the culture of our Mormon peers - so many others don't. The idea that his basketball playing somehow compensates for a parameter of rigtheousness "required of all worthy males", is highly disingenuous. Particularly, given that the restoration ought to be the motivating impetus for conversion, not celebrity affinity.

  • Wiley Old School RIC, VA
    March 8, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    I do not understand how so many gauge the go/don't-go mission decision by offsetting "exposure" for the church. If "exposure" is a valid factor, then we could list all sorts of behaviors/choices that should flexible for some in unique circumstances.

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    March 8, 2011 11:35 a.m.

    Am I disappointed that Jimmer didn't go on a mission? A little. I'm sure it would be more if I actually knew him, but I don't, and it was his decision. I don't really make it a point to run around finding out who did and who didn't serve a mission, being disappointed in the ones that didn't. Every single member of the church can make positive contributions, regardless of RM status. Why not focus on the positive things that Jimmer contributes, instead of looking for the negative? He makes plenty of positive contributions to the church. Good for him. I didn't earn my Eagle Scout Award. Does that make every other positive thing I've done in my life insignificant?

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    March 8, 2011 11:54 a.m.

    "Makes you wonder how many young men will be encouraged by Jimmer's example to forgo a set-apart mission in favor of an athletic mission."

    Are any of those other young men as good as Jimmer? Honestly, Jimmer's talent is pretty rare. I don't think there's going to be a mad rush of white LDS boys who are so good at basketball that they could somehow justify not serving a mission. You're talking about maybe 5 people tops nationwide, and it's their choice anyway.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 8, 2011 12:30 p.m.

    @tiztheseason: you are the perfect example of a Utah Mormon. One face says you don't condemn Jimmer and the other face does exactly that.

    No one is asking you to elevate Jimmer to anything. Do you know why anyone joins the church and how they come to that decision? Why are you placing limits on how the Holy Ghost works?

    As for being an "ordained missionary" I was always taught that we are all missionaries. I've had the same spiritual feelings teaching non-members in my home as I did when I was on my mission. But I'm not an ordained missionary so is it a different spirit that converted my friends?

    Let me suggest that you just worry about what gospel principles and commandments you pick and choose to follow and let everyone else worry about themselves.

    But it is true to the Utah Mormon to tell others their imperfections while completely missing their own.

    @Independent: you do the same thing. What's it to you if Jimmer serves a full-time mission or not? How does that impact how you live your life and with whom you are disappointed?

  • byu_num_1 Holladay, UT
    March 8, 2011 12:45 p.m.

    I don't agree with people judging Jimmer, but when people say he is a greater missionary than most, that is not true.

    Does anyone really know anyone who says, "I want to become a mormon because one of their basketball players is a great player."

    When you see a Catholic or a Baptist that is really good at basketball, do you really care that they are Catholic or Baptist, no. Same when people see Jimmer playing basketball. No one cares what religion he has.

    If someone does join the LDS church because Jimmer is a good basketball player, they probably joined the Catholic church when Joe Montana was around, and probably will leave the LDS church and join a new church one that another famous athlete belongs too.

  • Kyle loves BYU/Jazz Provo, UT
    March 8, 2011 1:06 p.m.

    "Let me suggest that you just worry about what gospel principles and commandments you pick and choose to follow and let everyone else worry about themselves.

    But it is true to the Utah Mormon to tell others their imperfections while completely missing their own." Uncle Charles

    Talk about he pot calling the kettle black. Follow your own advice and stop talking about how Utah Mormons are a joke.

    Go Jimmer and Go Cougars!

  • SP Salt Lake City, UT
    March 8, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    Jimmer is going to have some heavy temptation and lifestyle choices in the NBA. I take my hat off to Steve Young and others who got through the gauntlet of fame without losing their direction.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    March 8, 2011 1:35 p.m.

    "At the end of life we will not be judged by how many diplomas we have received, how much money we have made, how many great things we have done.
    We will be judged by "I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat, I was naked and you clothed me. I was homeless, and you took me in."
    Mother Teresa

    It seems that we need to add serve a two-year "set apart" mission to that list.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    March 8, 2011 1:46 p.m.

    @ Indepedent

    Jimmer does have rare talent.

    But when he made his decision to forgo a set apart mission he was a freshman playing 18 min per game and scoring 7 points. Not bad, but not a display of rare talent to justify a mission exemption.

    Even good young men sometimes struggle with the decision to commit two years of set apart mission service.

    As they make that decision they don't need the example of one who chose not to serve being idolized by the media and the public.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 8, 2011 2:36 p.m.

    To be clear I am not saying that Jimmer is serving his mission doing what he is doing. And I'm certainly not saying that he is a superior missionary to others that are sacrificing their time and efforts as full time missionaries. What I am saying is that Jimmer seems to be fullfilling his obligation to be a member missionary very well and whether or not he goes on a fulltime mission is not anybody elses business.

    It is not for anyone else to judge him, discuss his choice or make any assumptions on why he didn't go. It simply isn't anyone elses business.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 8, 2011 3:02 p.m.

    @howie

    You have no credibility here. You are an avowed BYU and Jimmer hater. Any comment you make on this is without merit and deserves nothing but scorn.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    March 8, 2011 3:14 p.m.

    "Are any of those other young men as good as Jimmer? Honestly, Jimmer's talent is pretty rare. I don't think there's going to be a mad rush of white LDS boys who are so good at basketball that they could somehow justify not serving a mission. You're talking about maybe 5 people tops nationwide, and it's their choice anyway."

    should we expect clarification from Salt Lake soon:

    "every worthy man must serve a mission. For 99% of you that means a traditional two-year mission where you are set-apart, live with a companion, tract, pay your own way, etc. However, for a small number of you that means playing basketball. Yes, it will be a lifetime of dating (chaste dating, of course), celebrity living, high wage earning, sacrifice".

    Fredette's business is his business - let's just not pretend that staying home and playing college ball so he can get a crack at the NBA, is anything near comparable to a full-time mission. He doesn't want to go, so what! It just happens that neither did my brother, but he was not graced with nearly the same level of "understanding".

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 8, 2011 5:22 p.m.

    Hey Kyle,

    I'm not a Utah Mormon....I didn't grow up here...Only lived here a few years and will be moving in a few more.

    You should move out of the state for a few years and then move back. You'll then understand the difference between Utah Mormons and the rest of the church. 2 different worlds.

    Just look at all the holier-than-thou's on here from Utah who have never lived out of state except for their 2 year missions.

    Don't worry, I won't let my children grow up to be like the people on this thread who are casting stones without giving a 2nd thought to their own arrogance and sins while judging Jimmer, Ainge and Young.

    It's sickening to see so many Utah Mormons eat their own and don't even realize it. All so they can pound their chests to say they went on "real missions" or were "ordained missionaries" or Jimmer won't be a role model for their children!

    What a nice aroma that is emitted from Utah Mormons to the rest of the world.

  • ida-coug Pocatello, ID
    March 8, 2011 5:40 p.m.

    Uncle Charles:
    Wow... someone in Utah really hurt your feelings. I am so sorry. You must have a great job if that's why you stay there. I grew up in Utah. I tried to live the gospel. I made mistakes. I was never taught that I was more "righteous" than someone else. Hopefully someday you will be able to move somewhere else so you and the people in your ward won't have to be so miserable. It just isn't healthy... Jimmer has made a choice. It's really none of our business.

  • ida-coug Pocatello, ID
    March 8, 2011 5:50 p.m.

    Uncle Charles:

    What is an "ordained missionary" ? You seem very "judgemental", or is that a right reserved for you because YOU aren't a "Utah mormon"?

  • annie Tomball, TX
    March 8, 2011 8:00 p.m.

    ida-coug,

    Mormons outside the Rockies are much different. I was in a ward once where the greeter smoked and everyone loved him anyway. I was in a ward once where the primary music leader didn't make a single craft and no one cared. I once saw a Bishop consistently go over to the sacrament bench and help a young man with reading trouble bless the sacrament. I was in a ward once where we had to drive for hours and hours on Christmas Eve to make sure that all the members had food for Christmas, but this was done without compliant. None of these things happened when I grew up in Idaho and went to school in Utah. They all happened in the mission field. Folk out here know how precious another member of the church is, and they treat them accordingly. It is a beautiful thing. I think Jimmer deserves the benefit of the doubt.

  • nautilus San Antontio, Texas
    March 8, 2011 8:53 p.m.

    The greatest missionaries sometimes do not have to ride bikes, beat the pavement and sweat in a tropical country speaking a new language.

    Jimmer is using his talents, and is like a beacon set upon a hill. He cannot be hid, nor his light!!

    Just imagine the full-time missionaries will be very busy just answering questions about the "Jimmer" and that is a great missionary tool, although Jimmer is not knocking on doors, he is knocking on hearts of those who choose to follow.

    Jimmer has far surpassed his physical for a mission. He IS a mission, only some just choose not to see, nor recognize someone like that that comes along perhaps once in a generation.

    How about Steve Young? He was and still is an example. No one should fault these fine examples no matter if they are/were athletes.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    March 8, 2011 8:55 p.m.

    It is glorious when you can lie down at night with a clear conscience that you have done your best not to offend anyone and have injured no one. You have tried to cleanse your heart of all unrighteousness, and if you put forth precious effort you can sense as you pray to God to keep you that night that He accepts your effort. You have a sense that you are God's child, a person whose soul God wants to save.
    David O. McKay
    ===

    I love the prophets.

    I do think it embarassing and sad for those of you who stress the whole "two year" "set apart" thing. It's not a "sin" to choose another path. If I had to choose tomorrow, and go hang with some of your pompous attitudes for two years, I'd still say no -- not because of a sin -- I just get tired of listening.

    Jimmer, and all the kids that exercise their free agency, and make the "wrong" choice -- I just hope they are good people, and raise good kids.

    Not knock out the two -- and check out of living a good life... being good parents, etc.

    However, I may be wrong...

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    March 8, 2011 9:52 p.m.

    @Veritas Aequitas

    "Not knock out the two -- and check out of living a good life... being good parents, etc."
    *******************************

    Why not knock out the two... AND... live a good life being good parents and raising good kids?

    Seems like a pretty good option...

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    March 8, 2011 10:10 p.m.

    Jonah thought he would go to Tarsus and preach to the sailors on the way when the Lord called him to Ninevah. Thing is Missionaries are called to teach the investigators you bring the gospel. Right now every 19 year old has been called to serve a mission were the Lord calls. Not free to modify it.

    People can do good deeds and help people into the church before and after there mission. The call to go forth has already been decreid.

    As for treating each other good of course you need to. That does not excuse you from the ordinances and other commandments of the gospel. Will someone be in the Celestial Kingdom that is generous but neglects the sabbath and tithing?

    We do need to make Righteous intermediate judgements. There are great people that passed on missions. But we in a kind way need to do what we can to encourage young people to go forth and serve. Many star athletes have gone on missions and came back and played stellar careers too.

    As for revelation I wonder if people sometimes use personal revelation as an excuse not to follow the revelator?

  • Richard Saunders Provo, UT
    March 9, 2011 1:18 a.m.

    @ Uncle Charles, 5:22 p.m.
    Do you see how you are doing the exact same thing you are accusing "Utah" Mormons of? Let's face it, unless you know a majority of the LDS people who live in Utah, you can't even say for sure what a "Utah" Mormon is. No, a small sample of people who write anonymously on comment boards doesn't count, and it wouldn't be very scientific either.

    @ annie 8:00 p.m.
    I'm glad all that great stuff happened. I've spent a total of twenty two years of my life as a "Utah" mormon and I think I've seen some pretty cool stuff too. Would you believe me if I told you I've seen some of the same acts of service here, even in Utah? Maybe you wouldn't, but that's not the point. It may hurt to hear it, but the Savior loves all kinds of people. He loves Texas Mormons, Virginia Mormons, New York Jews, London atheists, Tibetan monks, Priests in Cicily, Southern evangelicals, Jehovah's Witnesses in Oregon, and even, yes even Utah Mormons.

  • annie Tomball, TX
    March 9, 2011 8:21 a.m.

    Richard, I lived in Utah and Idaho for 25 years and was in a family with a less active father. We were treated like garbage. I know what it is like there. This whole comment thread is why I say Utah Mormons are different. Read it. People say in essence, "I don't judge, but Jimmer is a bad guy and bad example for my kid." There is no charity for someone who chose differently than they would.

    I loved my mission and wish everyone would go, but I can give Jimmer the benefit of the doubt that he is doing the best he knows how at the place he is in his life. Maybe he'll wish he had gone some day, but for now, a bunch of people judging him on the Deseretnews comment board is ridiculous.

    I know God loves everyone. My family includes Jews, Muslims, Methodists, Baptists, and atheists (I am not your average Mormon). Many of these folks have had hard experiences with Mormons. But, in truth, I send my children to Utah for stuff all the time and visit and love the place, it is just a hard place to be different.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    March 9, 2011 8:33 a.m.

    Nautilus:

    I'm dumbfounded by your logic. Again, I mean no personal discredit to Jimmer. In fact, having been raised a Mormon, and having served a mission, right now I am a critic of the Church - so I don't expect anyone to serve a mission. Having said that, I am very familiar with Mormon culture, teachings, and practice. So I ask, in what way is Jimmer a "beacon set upon a hill"? Furthermore, a beacon of what? What example is he currently setting? He has made a personal choice not to serve a mission, in order to pursue a potential career in the NBA, which is really nothing more that a personal gain. Yet, you see him as almost a superior example to the the substandard class of "regular" missionaries - based on his basketball skill? Should missionaries spend their time "answering questions about the "Jimmer"", or should they be teaching the restoration? And to entertain your hypothetical, what questions exactly would they answer? Fredette seems like a decent individual, but his example so far is basketball skill, he seems willing to give a little lip service to the Church, and he hasn't "violated" and commandments or codes.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    March 9, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    Howard S. | 9:52 p.m. March 8, 2011
    Taylorsville, UT
    @Veritas Aequitas

    *******************************

    Why not knock out the two... AND... live a good life being good parents and raising good kids?

    ===

    What you all seem to be missing, and what my point is...

    The decision has already been made.

    It's best to move forward, be a great example, and raise a solid family.

    Ya think?

    Or should we continue to judge and beat up those who chose not to serve?

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    March 9, 2011 8:57 a.m.

    Lots of people living JImmer's life for him. It's amazing how presumptuous they are. Many things are between Jimmer and his God. Unless you are privy to that conversation, just let it go.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 9, 2011 9:22 a.m.

    Unsurprisingly a good number of the "Jimmer didn't go on a mission! He is a poor example and poor Mormon!" posters are ute "fans" and avowed BYU haters like howard s. whose daily example of love, tolerence and missionary behavior graces this board constantly.

    Let us all follow howards, and the other BYU haters, example of goodwill and brothership.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 9, 2011 9:33 a.m.

    @annie: Thank you for your comments as those who have never lived outside of Utah have no idea of what we speak.

    It's one of those deals where some know and some don't.

    @higv: your post at 10:10pm is the same holier than thou tripe that puts people off. "Not free to modify it?" The prophet HAS modified it for MANY. Are you here telling the world that the prophet was wrong to do that?

    How is it your place to judge Jimmer and his decision to go on a mission? Are you his priesthood authority? Are you his father? If not, YOU are the one stepping over the line and judging someone for something you no nothing about. Are you telling the world that you are without sin so you can cast stones at Jimmer? Pretty arrogant don't you think? I guess we should wonder if you are going to make it to the Celestial Kingdom with your version of "righteous judgment"?

    @Richard: thanks again for confirming what you don't know or understand. I've detailed what a Utah Mormon is. Some know, some don't. I know, you don't. Cheers!

  • ida-coug Pocatello, ID
    March 9, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    Sorry Anne/Uncle charles,
    I once knew a man who never missed church, ever. Yet, he smoked, drank coffee. He always bore his testimony of how he had his struggles but loved the lord. He was one of the best home teachers that I ever had. Did the people in this small town, Southern Utah ward think any different of him, NO.... The only person I knew that ever said anything (called him a hypocrite) was a brother that moved in from "the mission field".. He found him repugnant.... I've seen both sides having lived 15 years in the "mission field" (not Idaho). There were great people in both places. I sincerely home that someday both of you will be happy. Sometimes its a matter of perspective and vision.. Don't paint everyone with such a broad brush....
    a brother and "Utah Mormon"

  • TizTheSeason logan, utah
    March 9, 2011 10:33 a.m.

    A fellow in the office once stated it this way...."There are Utah Mormons and then there are BYU Fans...both seem holier than thou and justify everything"

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 9, 2011 11:53 a.m.

    Hey Idaho-Coug...of course there are exceptions to the rule in all situations. But it doesn't seem like there is for Jimmer from the fanatic holier-than-thou Utah Mormons on this thread and their cousins in Idaho.

    Just read the posts and look at the consternation from Utah Mormons regarding Jimmer and his decision. I'm pretty sure that if they were face to face with Jimmer they wouldn't have the guts to say the things they've posted here.

    And yes, I've called out many Utah Mormons for their ridiculous standard they hold everyone to except themselves.

    It is a broad brush and in general, there are Utah Mormons and then the rest of the church. There is a distinct difference between the 2 and it's actually undeniable.

    My comments about this whole issue came after reading the stupidity posted by the Utah Mormons on here and felt they needed to be called out. Simply put, they are 2-faced.

    "I don't condemn Jimmer but...." it's all over the thread.

    Some even think they are speaking for the Lord and His prophet.

    What a joke!

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    March 9, 2011 7:18 p.m.

    As for the person that talked about Agency actually Lucifer wanted to save everyone did not say how he would do it. Agency gives us the oppurtunity to do the will of the Lord. Cannot be used as excuse to fail to fulfill our duty. Or of cousre do evil Do not have the right.

    If it was not important for us to listen to the prophets why would the Lord call them? Who is wrong for listening to the Prophets. Some peole make it a sin to listen to him to justify there disobedience I think. The poster that is criticizing the Missionary program.

    Who in recent decades has been excused from the Prophet of going on a mission? No unclean thing can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Disobedience is Sin. We all do things that are not right. That is why Jesus suffered for us. So we would not have to if we would repent. Hopefully we will all make it to the Celestial Kingdom. Need to do ordinances and repent of sins though.

    At present counsel to go on mission for everyone.

  • Richard Saunders Provo, UT
    March 9, 2011 9:09 p.m.

    @ Annie, I appreciate your heartfelt comments and sincerity. I am also truly sorry that your family was treated poorly. (admittedly, sincerity is a hard thing to convey over the internet, so I just hope you'll take my word for it)
    My only problem with the phrase "Utah Mormon" is that it only serves to divide us and as a generalization, it does not apply to all those who are LDS and Utahn. Yes, there are jerks from Utah on this comment thread, but people on the internet aren't representative of everybody.

    @ Uncle Charles
    Just because you say that's the way it is, doesn't make it so. And don't just tell me I don't understand because no one can really understand another person. By your own logic, until YOU have lived in Utah and only in Utah you don't what that life is like. Here's a deal: I won't judge you, nobody will judge Jimmer, and you will stop using the phrase "Utah" Mormon because its just another brand of 'ites.' And we both know people are happiest when there aren't any "ites."

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 10, 2011 3:03 a.m.

    What we all need is to have the proper perspective. We do not know the full situations of others, so it is best to not assume what they should do based on what we do not know. Fredette's life choices are his own, based on his unique circumstances, and I would urge others not to assume they know what should happen based on limited knowledge.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    March 10, 2011 6:04 p.m.

    As for driving people out of the church Jesus himself said some things that some people decided not to follow. Hard doctrine rids people of followers. Thing is Jesus came to teach and do the will of the Father who sent him. And our leaders say what Jesus himself wants them t o say. People that do not want to stay in the church usually find a commandment they do not want to keep. Use others as excuse. If you have a testimony of the gospel you will not leave over offense. Particularly when it is not intended.

    Leaders have a duty to teach general counsel not modify it. Since the Lord is no respector of persons why would he excuse an athlete from serving a mission? And has anyone heard every worthy Young man should go on a mission unless? Or do they leave the unless out?

  • Expatriate Golden Spike Territory, UT
    March 10, 2011 10:49 p.m.

    I had a great youth in the Church, raised by a hand cart stock Mom and an adult convert Dad, a WWII veteran of 10 Pacific Fleet combat patrols in submarines. At 19, I was among the youngest pilots in the Army, living in a tent surrounded by mine fields and jungle in Vietnam. I did not serve a full time mission despite my active and worthy youth. My grandfather was a WWI Navy pilot. My daughter was a Navy Field Combat trained medic during Desert Storm. Serving country is a family tradition.

    Within 10 years after returning from Vietnam, I became totally inactive. I struggled in the wilderness over 20 years - failed TEMPLE marriage, mixing alcohol and aviation and living to tell about it. Was it due to Vietnam, or not serving a mission, or convert father never teaching me how to pray. Donno, you judges tell me! I'm back and like an old bent nail straightened and reused, stronger than new! Lets put the missionary call in the correct light! It has nothing to do with sports. It has everything to do with life! I wish I would have done things differently. Good thread, all!