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Brad Rock: Don't plan on Jim Boylen surviving at the U.

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  • The NIT Draper, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 12:43 a.m.

    Your headline is the most encouraging news I've read all year about the Utah basketball program. There is hope if we say goodbye to Jim before he totally destroys the 11th [formerly] best basketball program in the country. My family will not be going to the Huntsman tonight to watch 3 and 8 Utah play 2 and 9 Wyoming in a boring, pass the ball around, pretend basketball game. I think I have to mow the lawn or go to the dentist. However, I think we do have one first in the country this year - Utah has to be the ONLY school where the women's gymnastics team more than doubles the fans of the men's basketball team. Unbelievable. Make the change now before we get drilled in the PAC-12.

  • Louisiana Cougar Pineville, LA
    Feb. 16, 2011 5:32 a.m.

    The Rock Monster has spoken . . . er, written!

    The big problem for Chris Hill is the economics. The numbers say, "Make the change."

    For Utah, however, part of their reputation requires them to be able to hold onto and to support a coach. Giacoletti and Boylen both won conference championships. To dismiss them both within two years shouts, "Hey! Anybody who comes here better get a long-term guaranteed contract, because we will terminate the agreement if you have two successive tough years."

    So, the problem gets tougher for Hill and the Utes. The reality is that the Utah fans are fickle and won't support a team that struggles.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 5:57 a.m.

    Utes should hold off on that ticket price increase if they want to attract a fan base. Perhaps they should be giving free tickets away to school children for good reading performance. They need to do something to actually put bodies in those seats.

    That used to not be a problem.

    Consider if the football team has a few bad years. How soon will the program lose its current fan base? Think about how many people left early during the TCU game, and you can see the Utes could be in trouble very quickly if they can't stay competitive.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Feb. 16, 2011 6:10 a.m.

    Of course he won't be back.
    The school won't take a team of this skill set to the Pac 12 just to be the weekly doormat.
    I imagine coach Boylen is a fine man and a nice guy but it's time for he and the school to move on.

  • Sloppy J St. Louis, MO
    Feb. 16, 2011 6:36 a.m.

    The Marriott Center's been "less than half-empty" all year, Rock Monster, but the TUN's arena has not. I think you meant "less than half-full" or "more than half-empty." My middle-school English teacher is beaming with pride right now.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Feb. 16, 2011 7:01 a.m.

    I say that Utah should give him more time. To be fair, he should get another ten years at least to work on the program. I like the direction he is taking the team and he deserves some time to see how far he can take them.

  • lynninsj south jordan, utah
    Feb. 16, 2011 7:16 a.m.

    I lost faith in Boylen after the Arizona loss in the NCAA Tournament 2 years ago. It wasn't the loss itself that concerned me but rather how we looked totally unprepared for that Arizona team. Boylen seems to be a great guy and I would have liked to see him succeed but it just isn't happening. It's time for Utah to cut it's losses and go in a different direction.

  • sports-junkie West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 8:30 a.m.

    This article is dicouraging. I was really HOPING Jim Boylen was the future.

    But in all honesty...

    I think at this point its very obvious that Boylen is NOT your guy. Hill should have let him go to moment he realized that.

    Heres what I don't understand.. If Chris Hills intentions are to let Boylen go, why wouldnt he just him go immediately to start the rebuilding process now? At least the team would have a chance to enter the pac12 on a positive note with a new coach who has a few games under his belt.

    Chris Hill is smart. Im wondering if the utes WILL see a new coach next year. Its all very perplexing.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 16, 2011 8:44 a.m.

    Sports junkie,

    Hill will wait until July 1st to can Boylen. Based on the contract the Utes could save as much as 500K if they wait.

  • whitehairedaggie Ogden, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 8:56 a.m.

    Why would Stew want that mess at his age??

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Feb. 16, 2011 8:59 a.m.

    It would be extremely bad PR for Utah, to raise ticket prices for an inferior product. Putting a new label(PAC 12) on the product, doesn't mean it's worth more money.

    Nowadays, announced attendance (paid attendance), is much greater than actual attendance, which means that a lot of Utah fans who have tickets aren't even bothering to show up.

    Raising ticket prices may be the final straw for some of those fans who may simply stop buying season tickets until they see a better product being put on the floor.

    The question for Hill is, how far can he afford to see attendance drop before he pulls the plug on Boylen.

  • Big_Ben Centerville, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:13 a.m.

    I admire Jim's passion for the game and his devotion to the program. Yes, he has only gone 1-7 against BYU while his predecessor went 3-3. His predessor had a year with the best college player in the country while BYU had a down year. (That accounted for two of the three victories, the other was an upset at the HC in 2006).

    The defense has been better under Boylen. No question about that.

    But the offense has not improved at all. There is no dead-eye shooter. There is no post up threat. The fact that we are in the 300's in assists per game speaks volumes about the offense.

  • Max-was-right springville, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:15 a.m.

    Give the guy a chance. He has this program right on the edge of turning it around. Besides which alum is going to step up to the plate and pay the millions in a buyout. With the mess of not getting one single dime from the pac 12 for two years, its not like the u can afford to fire him. Patience is what is needed with boiling right now.

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:16 a.m.

    Like Gary Crowton at BYU, some coaches just are great assistant coaches, but they just aren't qualified to be head coaches.

    That seems to be Boylen's problem. He's fine coaching a particular position, big men I heard in the NBA, but he doesn't know how to put a system together that incorporates the skill sets of an entire team.

    Utah is one of the worst in the country in assists and turnovers, which is direct result of a sloppy, undisciplined offense.

    Boylen will take the money and run back to the Big Ten or the NBA as an assistant, which is where he should have stayed all along.

  • sports-junkie West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:22 a.m.

    @hedgehog

    Thanks for the info. Makes sense.

    This is a crucial time for utah basketball. Another bad season with another bad coach and recruiting will take another step (or two) back.

    Chris Hill needs to put a lot of thought into his next hire. So far his track record for hiring bball coaches isnt all that impressive.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    Kewgs sound really worried about a coaching change at Utah. Their subconcious is telling them that their fifteen minutes of fame are just about up.

    Enjoy your cute little jimer story - come the second week of March it's all over.

  • mtseatss Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    What's in a name? (My Name) Everything.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    Hill might be able save 500K by waiting until July 1st to let Boylen go, but, would there still be a decent coach available by then?

    Most Coaching changes will be starting in early April, which means the Utes would be two months behind the rest of the country if they way until July 1st.

    Would Hill take the chance of starting his search for a new coach without first telling Boylen that he was being fired? That's not something Hill would be able to keep from leaking out.

  • DodgerDoug Salem, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    I don't get all the talk about Utah going to a superior basketball conference in the Pac-12. Last I have seen the MWC is much better. Utah and Boylen will do better in an inferior Pac-12 basketball conference. Keep him!

  • Big J Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    Here is the bottom line. Looking at Utah's schedule this year, I would expect this team to be at least 18-10. This would include sweeps by BYU, SDSU, and UNLV. Those losses should all be less than 10 points. In other words, the game was decided in the final minutes. A split with NMS. Road losses to UT State, Michigan, and Butler.

    That would be a team making progress maybe stealling a game from the big three. But clearly that is not our team.

    Go Utes!

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:37 a.m.

    Our little furry ground hole dweller is completely delusional if he thinks that BYU fans are at all worried about the coaching mess up on the hill.

    Utah fans would give their eye teeth to have a coach like Dave Rose coaching the Utes, and deep down, even a BYU obsessed hater like hedgehog would have to agree, although he would never admit that in a public forum.

  • DixieAggie St.George, Utah
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:47 a.m.

    You know your [Utah] program is doing badly when "lowly" Utah State out-recruits you for in-state recruits. Aggies have had consistent well-performing years in the college basketball world.

    Boylen isn't the worst coach to ever walk the face of the earth. Give him another season. I remember the years when Steve Cleveland was at the helm at BYU and there were just as many BYU fans not attending those days as well. To say that BYU fans are more devoted than Ute fans is just a silly school-ground argument.

    Good luck Utes, good luck Cougars. I enjoy following both of these teams. Go Aggies!

  • Bottom Line Draper, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    Just some food for thought, but what is the new normal? Is it the current state of the program or is it the 90's run? It is probably somewhere in between, but I would lean more that expectations have been way too high and a 500 team with occasional pops is the reality.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Feb. 16, 2011 9:53 a.m.

    @ hedgie,
    There is no way Hill waits until July 1 to fire Boylen. If he does, he will have another mass player exodus and lose potential recruiting time and players.

    You are right, the Cougar fans are so worried about who Utes next coach will be, we are shaking in out boots - NOT.

    And since I know that you watch every Cougar game, since you are obviously so well informed - you better keep your calendar open for March 24 because they will be playing in the Sweet Sixteen.

  • TheHailstorm South Weber, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 10:00 a.m.

    I say cut the losses and move along. Now is a good time to start looking and interviewing new coaching prospects especially during March Madness. Boylen was supposed to be "The Man" when it came to coaching big men and yet today Washburn at 6'11" and 7'3" Foster have not been an offensive threat.
    I think a new coach will at least draw the curious.Forget Stew Morrell he has found a home in beautiful Cache County. Alex Jensen is an assistant to Majeras and has learned the X's and O's from the best, but without the controversy, plus he has local ties. If nothing else have the new coach try and lure Jensen from SLU and have him on the bench as an assistant.
    I don't like the thought of having Boylen coaching in the PAC 12 and have the program spin even more out of control.Four years is enough time and a buy out won't hurt him nor his family.
    Buy him out and remind him to turn out the lights. He'll land on his feet and Utah round ball can move on.
    One can only hope.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Feb. 16, 2011 10:37 a.m.

    The Peter Principle, the eponymous law coined by Dr. Laurence Peter, explains that "in a hierarchy, every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence." Everyonefrom the office intern to the CEO, from the low-level civil servant to a nation's presidentwill inevitably rise to his or her level of incompetence, if it hasn't happened already.

    For Boylen, it's already happened.

    Dr. Hill can do Coach Boylen a favor by helping him return to his level of competence -- as an assistant coach somewhere besides Utah!

  • cougar76 Provo, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 10:53 a.m.

    "less than half empty." Is that the same as more than half full?
    Don't like "he's gone" articles appearing as headlines in the newspaper. Doesn't do any good. Everyone knows the problem. Stories like this are hard on the family, needlessly. Find some creative subject to write about, if you are worth what they pay you to second guess coaches and AD's.

  • SUUstudent Cedar City, Ut
    Feb. 16, 2011 11:11 a.m.

    Roger Reid was mentioned in the poll as a possible replacement for Boylen, I think all of us SUU fans would be happy if Utah took him away from us:)

  • sports-junkie West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 11:22 a.m.

    @hedgehog

    I definitely wouldnt say Im "worried" about the coaching change up on the hill. Laugh Out Loud!

    I would say "entertained" would be a better description.

    Oh and by the way, if utah ends up bringing in Roger Reid, I will NEVER stop laughing.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 11:30 a.m.

    At the end of this season a lot of schools are going to make a run at Dave Rose especially if his team goes deep into the tournament. So, why not Utah? Utah may be thinking this is the opportunity to go after Rose before he is snatched up by another school. That would be a reason to fire Boylen at the end of this season and go after Rose or Morrill. No one really knows how happy Rose is since his program was escorted to the back of the bus for the sake of football independence. And Morrill only has what is left of the WAC. Morrill is 59 so he may want to step out of a deteriorating WAC and move to the PAC 12. I know, fans will say Rose turned down the Houston job last year to stay at BYU but that was before he was told to take his program to the WCC apparently without much consultation. Rose is going to leave BYU at some point and he will have many suitors this year. Utah has to take a shot at him and some back channeling may already be taking place.

  • huggyface Murray, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 11:44 a.m.

    I thought Dr. Hill applied for the AD job in Washington. Maybe he is'nt doing anything because he is hoping to leave and not have to clean up the mess.

    Alex Jensen would be a great addition to the program.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 11:52 a.m.

    Dutchman

    Utah can take it's best shot at Rose, but it won't matter. The Utes have nothing to offer that Coach Rose doesn't already have.

    Coach Rose has built a great basketball program at BYU and he has the solid backing of the administration, boosters, students, and fans. More importantly, he can be every bit as successful playing in the WCC as he could be in the PAC 12.

    Why would Coach Rose want to give all of that up to take over a failing program that would take years to salvage from the mess it has become?

  • netmaster Farmington, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 12:01 p.m.

    Even if the Utes were winning games and vying for the conference championship, I would be in favor of letting Boylen go. He has no offense, he has not taught his tallest player a single offensive move, he can't even get his team to shoot free throws. The defense is OK, but the offense reminds me of an action verb most commonly used to describe the efficacy of a Dirt Devil. It also reminds me of the offense that BYU used to run under Tony Ingle, which is to post up one guy, pass the ball around the perimeter until one of four things happens: 1) turnover, 2) shot clock runs out, 3) a player who makes 20 to 30% from the three-point line casts up a prayer, or 4) a player decides to go 1 on 4 and drive into the teeth of the defense.

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 12:05 p.m.

    Live it up coug fans, revel in it. You may want to put it in context though:
    1. Next year you will be wollowing in the bottom half of the WCC.
    2. The Pac 10 is down but traditionally has been far better in bball than the MTN or the WCC in every measurable way. Utah will dominate in state recruiting again with the right choice.
    3. Is this BYU team that good or is it just Jimmer. In reality this BYU team, the best BYU bball team in its history is not as good as say the top 7 or 8 all time Utah teams. Could this BYU team even beat the 2004 Utah team, debatable?

    Go ahead cougs and enjoy our mess, but do so knowing heart break is around the corner.
    go Utes

  • Still Blue after all these years Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    A few questions for all the Yewt fans:

    1. When do you start to question the amount of money Hill pays to coaches? Do you think he's getting his money's worth? even if its Eccles and Huntsman's money?

    2. Do any of you really believe Rose will leave BYU? Do you think Rose cannot determine for himself a great situation from a potential situation?

    3. How long do you think it will take to get the program going? It seems to me that one can try to make the current players winners and start recruiting better. Or you could go the JUCO route. Does anyone believe it can be done in 1-2 years? Are not most of the current best players in Utah high school ball more prone to BYU or out of state than the Yewts? will you be happy if it takes 3 more years or longer?

  • sports-junkie West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 12:15 p.m.

    One more thought, then Im done... (thankfully for some of you Im sure)

    Suggesting Dave Rose would ever consider a job at utah is laughable. TrueBlue has a very good list of reasons. I would just like to add one thing.

    Whoever takes over that program will AUTOMATICALLY be in the "hot seat" from day one. I dont care who you are, you dont take over a program like that with any sense of job security. Why would Dave Rose want that? To prove he's awesome? No. He's already brought BYU back so he doesnt have to prove anything to anyone. And contrary to what some ute fans think, some coaches actually LIKE coaching at BYU, believe it or not.

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    Feb. 16, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    The only worry BYU fans might have about the rumblings on the hill, is that the Utes might actually replace Boylen and mess with a good situation for the BYU and Utah State.

    Right now, the Cougars and Aggies have absolutely no competition from the Utes for the best basketball players in the state of Utah.

    That could change if the Utes had a coach as good as Rose or Morrill.

  • Girlse State Midvale, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    What is better than watching the yewts have a .400 record while in the MWC?

    Watching them have a .333 record while in the Pac 12, with most of the wins(and some losses) coming against D-II colleges before conference play starts.

  • WasatchReb Provo, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 12:29 p.m.

    I'm not a Utah fan, but a UNLV fan....so obviously I don't really care too much. That said, you have to consider a few things with this guy. Giacoletti did not leave him much to work with....it takes a while to rebound when the programs hit lows like Utah has lately. Majerus had this team playing well, but lets face it, its not because he was loading the roster full of ultra-athletic, 5-star recruits...and after having the fortune to identify talent and develop guys like Doleac, Miller, Van Horn, Jensen, etc... and etc...Majerus didn't leave the cupboard full for Giac either.

    If I were a Ute, I'd more upset about Boylen churning thru players, than anything else. He's ran too many off.....that said, I'd take 2 or 3 guys off the Ute's current roster over guys playing regular minutes at my school (UNLV)....that hasn't been the case at Utah for years. IMO, he has something special in a few of these players, and you don't need 85 player in basketball to be good...I'd give him one more year.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 12:47 p.m.

    Although Utah may have wanted to wait another year before deciding on Boylen's fate, Rose's own success at BYU and the move to the WCC has moved the time table up to this year. None of you can state with any certainty how happy Rose is about laboring in the WCC. Kids at the back of the bus always have smiles on their faces. But, Bronco and Holmoe are now driving this bus and Rose could be very unhappy over the situation. I am just saying. Plenty of coaches and employees who are otherwise happy with their work leave their employers for other oportunities because they are slighted or clash with a co-worker. For Utah's part money will not be an issue. There are plenty of boosters with enough money that given the chance to get Rose or Morrill will fork it over. Some will do it with glee. A move to the PAC 12 by either Rose or Morrill means playing in west coast cities at nice venues large enough for 12-14,000 fans and coaching in a prestigious athletic conference.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Feb. 16, 2011 1:01 p.m.

    gonefishn

    Are you finished with your rant?

    Traditions start and end, grow and diminish.

    Bottom line:

    It's all just wishful thinking on your part. You have no proof that Utah will ever be even half as good as the Utes were in the late 90's; nothing the Utes have done since 1998 even comes close.

    BYU is a Top 10 team with the leading POY candidate. Dave Rose has won 20 games or more in every one of his six season as BYU's head coach and he's lead the Cougars to five straight NCAA tournaments. Nobody knows if it will happen, but BYU has the potential to make a deep run in this year's tournament.

    Going forward:

    BYU has a solid group of players returning next year and a great coach with a proven track record.

    Utah has a few good players and a coach who is still searching for an offense. There's no guarantee that if Utah replaces Boylen, that the new coach will even be as good as Boylen.

    Your hyperbole aside, stating your opinions as immutable facts doesn't make them so.

  • JSpence SLC, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 1:02 p.m.

    "His arena is less than half-empty." I don't think this means what you think it means Brad.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    Feb. 16, 2011 1:20 p.m.

    I agree that the PAC-12 would be a step down. They have what, 1 ranked team? The MWC has 2 ranked and one or two usually getting votes. Give him at least one year in that conference as well as giving him a chance to gel a whole new team (unless they all leave to some other frontier again).

  • Solomon the Wise Alpine, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 1:20 p.m.

    Dutchman

    Rose would never say it in public, but I'm sure he would relish stuffing your "Kids at the back of the bus" words down your throat.

    Being the first coach in decades not in a "power" conference to win the NCAA tournament is just the type of challenge Dave Rose would enjoy.

    btw, half of BYU's games in the WCC next year will be played in an arena larger, by far, than any arena in the PAC 12; and Rose will still get to play on the west coast in sites that make those in the PAC 12 pale by comparison.

  • SoCalUte Trabuco Canyon, CA
    Feb. 16, 2011 1:30 p.m.

    @ Bottom Line The bottom line is that your comments are that of a true loser. You Y'ners always try to make the the Utes look worse in the past since you can't usually be better in the present. Now you have an opportunity to bash the Utes Basketball team, but instead you take the loser route. Why didn't you comment on the losing seasons that the cewgs had which were pointed out by Brad?
    After all it is 'History', your favorite subject.

  • Mount Olympus Holladay, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 1:42 p.m.

    I love how people say that the MWC is better than the Pac-10 in basketball.
    Really? How many times has a MWC team actually made it to the sweet 16?
    Last year the Pac-10 was horrible, but they still had a much better year than the MWC as they had a team get passed the first weekend in the NCAA tournament.

  • Mount Olympus Holladay, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 1:48 p.m.

    Only 2 teams in MWC history have ever made the sweet-16 (Utah 2005 and UNLV 2007).

    The Pac-10 had their worst year in a long time last year, but they still had a team that made the sweet-16.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    Solomon the Wise,

    "Rose would never say it in public, but I'm sure he would relish stuffing your "Kids at the back of the bus" words down your throat."

    Rose is too classy of a person to ever do anything like that. Tell me where Rose has been put in charge of this bus and how he was consulted on the WCC deal.

    "half of BYU's games in the WCC next year will be played in an arena larger, by far, than any arena in the PAC 12"

    I assume you are speaking of the games BYU will play at home in the 42 year old Marriott Center with half bleacher seats. Tell me what arenas there are in the WCC other than BYUs larger than a few thousand seats. All the PAC 12 arenas seat from 10-15,000. Cal renovated Haas Pavilion, USC built Galen Pavilion in downtown L.A. about 5 years ago and Oregon just opened Mathew Knight arena in Eugene which cost about $250 million. There is no comparing the WCC with the PAC 12 in any category.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 2:23 p.m.

    SoCalUte

    Recent history (since Rose became BYU's head coach)

    BYU has won 80% of its games
    Utah has won 50% of its games

    BYU has played in 5 straight NCAA tournaments
    Utah has only played in one

    BYU has 3 MWC championships
    Utah has 1

    You make not like the trend, but reality is the BYU and Utah basketball programs have been headed in opposite directions for the past 6 years and there's no evidence that that trend won't continue for the foreseeable future.

    See BYU/Utah football 1964 - before and after - for an example what can happen when two programs suddenly change directions.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 2:24 p.m.

    @dutchman

    Rose will not be leaving BYU and he certainly won't be going to utah. It no longer even needs to be discussed.

  • lledgehog Ann Arbor Basement, MI
    Feb. 16, 2011 2:29 p.m.

    @truth machine
    So I won't admit it, big deal.
    There's a lot of things I won't admit.

  • Solomon the Wise Alpine, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 2:40 p.m.

    Dutchman

    The PAC 12 does have some nice arenas, including that 40-year old arena on the hill that has 2/3's the capacity of the Marriott Center, but the most important factor for BYU joining the WCC is exposure through ESPN and BYUtv broadcasts of BYU sports, including BYU basketball. Something even membership in the PAC 12 can't deliver.

    Just this week I watched two Big East teams play in an arena that only held about 6,000 fans.

    If size of arena was really that important, Syracuse would dominate Duke every year in both exposure and national prominence.

    btw, Oregon spent $250 million on one of the ugliest floors ever built. I'd take any of the courts in the WCC over that monstrosity anyday.

    Winning the PAC 12 championship might be more prestigious than winning the WCC championship, but success in the NCAA tournament is the only thing that really matters, and Dave Rose can be just as successful entering the tournament from the WCC as he could from the PAC 12.

    A good run in the Big Dance this year could establish BYU's seeding credentials for years to come.

  • Skippy West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 3:09 p.m.

    I wish everyone (even the Dnews) would stop suggesting Stew as a coach for Utah. Have you seen his staff hold up those stupid signs telling the players which plays they are running?
    As for all you delusional cougar fans, even if they get a top seed in the NCAA tournament they will not win more than two games. Good Luck with that!
    As for Boylen, everybody but Boylen knows he will be gone next year! Hopefully, Hill will find a coach that loves a challange to take a program back to the top.

  • Big J Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 3:21 p.m.

    I have met Coach Rose and spoken to him on several occasions. He is a class guy and is a great fit for BYU. Additionally, Stew Morrill is a great fit for Utah State. All talk about either of them moving to Utah is dumb.

    Boylen has done some good things with the program. Unfortunately, winning the right amount of games was not one of them. Utah will go to round three at finding a replacement for "Big Rick".

    Go Utes!

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 3:51 p.m.

    Solomon the Wise,
    "that has 2/3's the capacity of the Marriott Center"
    Because the Huntsman Center is 100% chair seats.
    " BYU joining the WCC is exposure through ESPN and BYUtv broadcasts"
    Both the WCC and PAC 12 are in negotiations for new TV deals. The WCC commissioner said in an interview the other day that there is no guarantee the WCC will stay with ESPN. In fact, he said that the best way for the WCC to get exposure is to piggy back TV games on to PAC 12 games so that viewers will know that a WCC game follows a PAC 12 game. The WCC is waiting to see what TV deal is struck by the PAC 12 so that they can possibly get on the same network and do those piggy back games with the PAC 12. No offense, but to state that arena size and number of fans in the arena is of no importance is a bit naïve. The college basketball TV landscape is so fractured now that players and coaches know it is important to perform before large crowds. It is not enough to just say, We are on TV.

  • Ryan Greg Glens Falls, NY
    Feb. 16, 2011 4:19 p.m.

    Jim Boylen's problem is scouting and getting talent to come play for him. He was one of the many coaches who saw game film of Jimmer Fredette and said, "too slow." When you are out scouting and someone in your camp brings you Jimmer Fredette and you flat out pass on him that quickly. You deserve to be judged just as quickly and passed on as well. "Too slow." Atleast Brent tried to help you Jim. Good luck next year.

  • Qwest Perfected Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 4:52 p.m.

    It's crazy to hear byu fans talk about their NCAA tournament experience - like solomon.... not so wise. Just exactly how many NCAA tournament games have your coogs won in the last 5 years??? let me help you it's 1 game. So please save your advice for someone else.

    It is time for Boylen to go. He has some decent talent on this team but has no clue how to coach them to victory. I think his assistants aren't very good either.

    Hill has a pretty good track record for hiring coaches - don't forget Majerus, Meyer and Whitt. The last two baskeball coaches have struggled, but I'm sure we will find the right fit to get the program back on track.

    I'm glad that you're happy with the WCC - they typically get 1 team in the tourney by the way so good luck with that.

    It's true the MWC is higher rated this year than the PAC, but that isn't typical. The Utes will get it figured out and be fine. Thanks for the concern though coog fans but you can go back to your jimmer worship and leave us alone.

  • mr. j Cottonwood Hts., Ut
    Feb. 16, 2011 4:53 p.m.

    I saw the BYU basketball team walking on the beach. At sunrise, they looked behind and only saw one set of footprints. (Trust me, they were not coach Rose's)

  • Cali Coug Visalia, CA
    Feb. 16, 2011 5:08 p.m.

    Dutchman;

    The latest news on the PAC 12 TV contract does not look promising...The conference was hoping for a Big Ten type of deal...it all went bye-bye when Texas told the PAC-10 no thank you and the Conference went to it's Plan B. The WCC is better than the PAC this year and will be better than the PAC next year.

    The u should retain Boylen, just because the u has lost 10 of the last 14 games against the Y is no reason to dump your coach. Boylen will be successful. Given time he will have a winning team in the PAC...the u may not be able to compete against the WCC but you don't need to...you're in the PAC.

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 5:34 p.m.

    A partial list of possible replacements:
    Rick Majerus - The Marriot hotel awaits(wishful thinking)
    Donny Daniels - Gonzaga
    Tommy Conner - Westminster
    Ben Jacobsen - Northern Iowa
    Alex Jensen - St. Louis (possible Assistant)
    Brad Stevens - Butler (wishful thinking)
    Dave Rose - BYU (wishful thinking)
    Mark Few - Gonzaga(wishful thinking)
    Gregg Marshall Wichita State
    Jim Larranaga - George Mason
    Shaka Smart - VCU
    Tommy Amaker -- Harvard
    Cuonzo Martin - Missouri St.
    Randy Bennet - St. Mary's

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 6:05 p.m.

    Dutchman

    I've seen lots of Utah fans in the Huntsman Center lately coming disguised as empty red chairs.

    Chair seats or not, the entire Huntsman Center seating area would fit below the concourse at the Marriott Center.

    Besides, having benches in the Marriott Center for the student section allows a couple hundred extra students to crowd into that area. The students stand pretty much the whole game anyway, so having chairs would be a waste of space.

    Bottom line is if you have a good team and a good program like BYU has had lately, fans around the nation will find you, just like they have Jimmer this season.

    If you have a lousy program like Utah has had lately, it doesn't matter what arena you play in or which conference you're in, nobody will bother watching you either in person or on television.

    The Utes will be lucky to have 5,000 fans in the stands tonight against Wyoming. Do you really think a 10-15 Utah would be attracting anymore attention playing a 9-15 Arizona State or Oregon State in the PAC 12?

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    Feb. 16, 2011 6:25 p.m.

    Solomon the Wise
    "but the most important factor for BYU joining the WCC is exposure through ESPN and BYUtv broadcasts of BYU sports, including BYU basketball. Something even membership in the PAC 12 can't deliver."

    -------------

    It seems the only program that can't play on the national stage due to lack of exposure is BYU. For us it was never an issue.

    Now the nation can see BYU get exposed in HD.

  • Bottom Line Draper, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 6:43 p.m.

    re So Cal Ute,
    I see you took offense to some objective dialogue asking will Utah return to the glory days. Let us make something very clear here. Utah has yet to hit the bottom. That day will come either next year or the year after. At that point, they can rebuild, but the ceiling is much, much lower than you actually think. I think records against similar opponents will help you find the direction of each program. Finally AFA swept the Utes and this is not one of those good Falcon teams.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Feb. 16, 2011 7:17 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Now the nation can see BYU get exposed in HD."

    Like Utah was against TCU 7-47.

    or

    Like BYU was against SDSU 71-58.

    Utah fans have a weird definition of being exposed, especially this year.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Feb. 16, 2011 7:29 p.m.

    Qwest Perfected

    Just how much "playing experience" have the Utes had in the NCAA tournament lately?

    In the last 6 years, BYU has played 5 games in the tournament. Utah has played 1 game.

    Doing some quick math, I'd say BYU has FIVE times more experience in the NCAA tournament during the Rose era than the Utes have had -- and MUCH MORE still to come this season.

    While BYU fans are sitting around their televisions watching the brackets on Selection Sunday, Coach Boylen and the Utes will be busy cleaning out their lockers.

    Hill hired Giac and Boylen. So much for Hill's great track record for hiring coaches.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 8:26 p.m.

    Dutchman.

    Do you even know what your argument is. It takes so many twists and turns, I think you argue just to argue.

    ===

    Uteology...

    You really want to talk being exposed?

    Dropping from #5 out of the AP rankings, or having a basketball team that only the coach believes in?

    You kids have fun up at the Alumni House tonight. Be careful driving home. The roads are slick.

  • Kramer Taylorsville, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 8:27 p.m.

    Bullwinkles next stop...Wassamatta U. So long poetry lovers!

  • SSmith Washington, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 8:30 p.m.

    If Boylen stays on I think attendance will increase. BYU fans love to drop by the HC and root for the other team when no matter who that other team is we know they will beat Utah. What's not to like about that. I would pay good money for that show.

  • SSmith Washington, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 8:39 p.m.

    Just watching the Wyoming game. It must be a red out. Oh wait, those are empty red seats.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    Feb. 16, 2011 8:59 p.m.

    I have no problem with the WCC. It's decent enough. I have no problem with the PAC-12. It traditionally has had excellent teams at the top---particularly in the postseason.

    Certainly Rose is happy at the Y and will be lead them into their new WCC era.

    The question is whether Boylen should stay and lead the Utes into the PAC-12.

    Most of the above posts are either: 1) Y fans talking abut how great their team is and how WCC takes Utah to the woodshed (forgetting of course---or more like not knowing---that Utah beat Pepperdine, and is is 11-5 vs WCC teams the previous 10 seasons--the so-called lean years---including beating Gonzaga two years ago, but I digress) OR they are posts from my own side talking about how few tourney games BYU has won over the past two decades (which is true but could/probably dramatically change this season).

    Arguments FOR keeping Boylen:
    ---Good work ethic
    ---Class work
    ---Passion/teaching

    Arguments AGAINST:
    ---Lack of wins
    ---Player turnover
    ---Empty seats

    My opinion is even if the Utes finish with 13 wins---Boylen will be gone.

    New conference, new coach.

  • mr. j Cottonwood Hts., Ut
    Feb. 16, 2011 11:21 p.m.

    Now way Boylen stays. His offense is the most un-creative i've ever seen. Our bigs are so under-developed. Not a chance he hangs around. I don't want to stomach one more year of mediocre offense. I know all the guys are new but my pickup games have more creative offense then this and it's a D1 program.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Feb. 17, 2011 8:08 a.m.

    This is the tough pac 12 that utah is going to. wow impessive!

    Men's Basketball - Conference RPIs (2010-2011)

    Join Discussion now in Men's Basketball Message Board
    Only games against Division I opponents are counted.
    Rankings update every 5 mins.
    Last updated - Wed Feb 16 09:30:04 PST 2011

    View Conf. Power Ratings View Real Time Conf. RPIsvip
    RankConferenceAvg. RPIAvg. SOSSOS RankTeams
    1 Big East 0.5900 0.5810116
    2 Big Ten 0.5833 0.5747211
    3 Big 12 0.5788 0.5579312
    4 Mountain West 0.5679 0.556149
    5 Atlantic Coast 0.5597 0.5488712
    6 Southeastern 0.5594 0.5558512
    7 Pacific-10 0.5506 0.5523610
    8 Conference USA 0.5386 0.5261912
    9 Atlantic 10 0.5312 0.5318814
    10 Colonial Athletic 0.5254 0.52121012
    11 Horizon League 0.5175 0.51411210
    12 Missouri Valley 0.5170 0.51411110
    13 Western Athletic 0.5049 0.5005149

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 17, 2011 8:25 a.m.

    Cali Coug,

    "The latest news on the PAC 12 TV contract does not look promising"

    Perhaps you can enlighten me. I follow this subject pretty closely and I haven't seen anything lately. I know the championship game for 2011 was awarded to FOX for about 24-25 million for the one game, more than expected. And FOX is interested in getting back into college football big time and will be bidding on the PAC 12 deal. This is the regular FOX channels not the cable network.

    "The WCC is better than the PAC this year"

    This comment makes your comment about the TV contract suspect. The fact is the latest conference RPI has the PAC 12 at number 7 and the WCC at number 13 right between the Horizon and Ivy Leagues. That RPI was released on February 6th.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Feb. 17, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    Dutchman | 8:25 a.m. Feb. 17, 2011
    Murray, UT
    Cali Coug,

    "Perhaps you can enlighten me. I follow this subject pretty closely."

    "The fact is the latest conference RPI has the PAC 12 at number 7 and the WCC at number 13 right between the Horizon and Ivy Leagues. That RPI was released on February 6th."
    ===

    How does the PAC 12 have an RPI this year?

    This comment makes your comments suspect.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Feb. 17, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    Which is more likely to happen next year, BYU raising the RPI of the WCC, or Utah lowering the RPI of the PAC 12?

    Actually, it's a trick question, because both are near guarantees.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 17, 2011 10:34 a.m.

    Veritas Aequitas,

    A little nit picky are we? Sorry, PAC 10 rather than PAC 12. The official change is getting close and I am not the first to make the mistake. Even national media guys are doing it.

    Want info on the latest TV developments? Google Jon Wilner (college sports) and he has the latest update on the PAC 12 (yes, 12) TV deal. Good read. His comments about ESPN and PAC 12 basketball can also apply to ESPN and the WCC.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 17, 2011 10:55 a.m.

    As much as I don't cheer for the Utes, I'm impressed with Boylen staying classy and positive.

    What else do you want him to do or say? The leader is going down with the ship and I guess he should be commended for that.

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    Feb. 17, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    It's sad to see my beloved Ute basketball team playing with such sparse crowds watching the games. Nice guy or not ... Boylen is history.

  • mamalongarms Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 17, 2011 11:29 a.m.

    I guarantee you if Boylen goes there will be more guys quitting or leaving than if he stays. That is not the way to improve the program.

    I do agree that a change needs to be made. I suggest cleaning house with the assistants and bringing in more experienced and positive coaches.

    If Chris Hill wants to make the right decision he needs to get all his facts. That includes talking to the people that it would effect the most-- the players. If he knew his boys better he would know how to better approach the situation.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Feb. 17, 2011 11:32 a.m.

    Dutchman

    It really doesn't matter how "available" your product is if the product you're offering isn't something fans are interested in "buying".

    Such is the state of Utah basketball and the Utah football could collapse into that same void if the Utes become perennial PAC 12 bottom half of the conference dwellers.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 17, 2011 12:11 p.m.

    Just checked the latest conference RPI's from RealTime RPI dated 2-16-2011:

    PAC 10 # 7
    WCC #14

    After losing Jimmer and Emery at the end of this year BYU's RPI next year is not going to do much to raise the WCC's RPI. Sorry. As far as TV deals go look for the WCC to close a deal with FOX so that they can piggy back their games with PAC 12 games.

    If Chris Hill attends the Utah State vs St. Mary's basketball game this weekend he is there for only one reason, to check out two head coaches as possible replacements for Boylen, Randy Bennett of St. Mary's and Stew Morrill of Utah State.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 17, 2011 12:58 p.m.

    I'm afraid Boylen is gone, but bring on Dave Rose. That would be more than a fair exchange for Judkins.