The pieces were in place at UCLA too...that worked out well for them!
AND we've learned that his offense has been ineffective in the PAC10, having
been given the keys to the two 'legendary' programs of the conference, yet
unable to sustain success (or keep the job) at either. I still don't quite get
this hire. Love Norm Chow and he has built a fantastic career and reputation
for himself. And while I'm OK with 'retro', it's odd that in an era of
innovative offenses and with two bright, young, energetic minds on staff, Kyle
chose to go with the best offense of the 80's. Hmmmmm....
Riverton High had all the pieces to..... until they played Bingham. Whats your
point? He is in a completely different situation coming to the U. Ucla has its
problems starting with there head coach. He wanted to run a pistol offense with
a qb and o line who werent capable, evidence of this is total production in
yards on offense last year. Chow tried his best with what he had to work with
which wasnt much. They also had less talented players. The Utes have more
talent. Granted Wynn has critics, majority are troll tds fans but he will get
his chance in Chow's offense. If he falters they will mix it up with another qb.
You cant write off the fact that Chow knows how to develop NFL caliber qb's
starting at byu then usc. I hope that he is able to shake things up with the
hmmmm? I sense a byu fans doing everything in their power to downplay Norm
Chow's arrival at Utah and trying to come up with as many negatives as possible.
You are sad sad people.
My question is, if Wynn is not healed and ready for spring ball how is he going
to be the starter at QB in the fall? Chow is going to put his offense in during
spring drills. If Wynn is not available my guess is he red shirts and the QB
duties are handed to someone else.nottyou,UCLA never
handed Chow the complete run of the offense. Nueheisel was a QB himself and an
offensive coordinator for the Balitmore Ravens for one. Rick always had he
fingers in the offense and never allowed Chow full control. It didn't work at
UCLA. So what?Hawk,You are kidding, right? Two
national championships at USC and two Heisman trophy winners? It worked at USC
because Carroll did let Chow run the show. As for why Chow left to join the
Titans I am not sure. Maybe it was more money. If you know something more that
you can support please let me know. I would like to know myself.
Sorry, Rob, don't let me rain on your parade -- to be fair, I DO get all of the
PR, mentoring, national reputation, "former ute comes home", PAC10
experience, etc. benefits for utah, so I don't want to 'downplay' his arrival at
all. But how long is a high-potential guy like Roderick (who in reality takes a
demotion with this move) willing to stick around? Just sayin'....
Yeah, Dutchman, and Gary Crowton was BRILLIANT in his first year --
"sustain" being the operative phrase here. With the utes moving on,
I'm happy for them AND Norm and am very interested to see how this plays out....
Hawk - I have read A LOT about the situation with Chow and here is MHO. He is
here to help with the transition AND at the same time take 3 high potential,
high performing coaches and help them reach their highest potential and
performance. After a few years, 2 or 3, I expect him to as he said it
"ride off into the sunset". Leaving Utah with highly polished
assistant coaches, Offensive Coordinators and head coaches in waiting. Now the
trick is with those pedigrees can we keep those coaches for succession purposes?
Again this is all my assumption so all I can do is get in what looks like a
hotrod built for endurance and enjoy the ride. I hope all in the state of Utah
can join in and enjoy it too!
Hawk,You didn't answer my question. I respectfully want to know why
Chow left USC for the Titans. If you have reliable information please share it.
RilesDon't forget about one Lucky Radley. I expect him to be a big
contributor this season.Go Utes
"History tells us that Chow's offensive setups have almost always consisted
of two backs, a tight end and three wide receivers"Ummm
bill......2 backs + 1 tight end + 3 receivers + 5 offensive lineman + 1
quarterback = 12 players. nice math.
I think he'll do well at the U. He's a good man and has a good heart as well.
I think he and Whit and the rest of the staff will work well together. Good
Hawk,I significantly dispute your claim that Chow is from the 80's,
can't keep a job, and can't sustain a program.He is an 80's
coach?1999 Assistant COY, 2002 Top Collegiate assistant coach, 2002
Coordinator of the year. Coaching positions: 01-04 USC, 05-07 Titans,
08-10 UCLAYou don't win those awards or coach at those schools if you
aren't great at what you do, those are all within the last 10 years.If you
look at the QB awards that list doubles including Heisman Trophy awards and
Rookie of the Year Awards.Can't sustain?-BYU 1982-1999
highly sustained program do you dispute? Called Quarterback U during his tenure.
How many great QBs?-USC was called the PAC1+0 during his offensive reign,
sustained a program during his tenure.Unable to keep a job?If
you call getting a promotion unable to keep a job than your crazy.
To say that he has lost his edge looking at either the titans or UCLA is wrong
in my opinion.The Titans were a bad team when he got there and their
record improved each year he was there. Rookie of the Year QB during his
time.Could have been fired for any number of reasons including:
coach needed a fall guy, didn't get along with coach, or Chow was more of a
college coach type guy (Nick Saben great college poor pro coach).If
Tennessee had any bearing UCLA wouldn't have hired him and paid him more than a
million dollars.I don't believe you can say he is slipping based on
his experience at UCLA either. 1- he didn't have full control of the offense or
the offensive style 2- his starting QB was injured (look at Oklahoma after
Bradford was injured) 3- Rick Neuheisel is about to lose his job and needed
somebody to blaimI am very excited that we bring in a coach with
such experience, success, and knowledge. What other coach could we get who
knows three of our main rivals so well (BYU, USC, UCLA).
I don't think the game has passed chow by although it is fun to tease utah
"fans" with that. I have no doubt chow can still coordinate a good
offense. The conern for ute "fans" shouldn't be chow. The conern
should be the personel.I think wynn is terrible. He is weak armed,
inaccurate, immoble and a bit of a wimp that is scared to take a hit. That is
not what you want in your qb.The o-line was not good to finish the
season and they lose some of them, probably the best of them. The rb's have
never played a single second of D1 fball. The wr's will probably be ok and they
have a track record of good wr's so that probably isn't a worry. But the TE
isn't a position they have recruited for over a decade. There is no reason to
believe anyone they have on scholarship at that position is any good. No track
record of having good ones and not using them doesn't inspire any confidence in
what they have.In short the concern should be the personel not the
Re: jokeTake off the rose colored glasses and try to be
objective.1. Chow does have experience in the Pac 10 which should
be a positive, however, the Pac 10 is very familiar with Chow's offenses too
which will be a negative.2. Don't try to put lipstick on a pig. No
matter how you spin it or the reasons why, Chow's offenses at UCLA and the
Titans were horrible. The Titans record improved because their defense improved
... not the offense.3. utah does NOT have more talent than UCLA.
Look at recent recruiting classes. UCLA has had 3 consecutive top 10 recruiting
classes .. utah is not even close.4. Chow did have success at USC
but they are on a whole different level as far as talent goes. In some
respects, they were a Pro team playing college football.Don't get
your hopes up for next year. Despite what Bill wrote, the utes will be very
shaky on offense next year. utah's QB and RB situations are scary at best.
Trying to implement a new offensive scheme with unproven players is not a recipe
for success no matter how you spin it.
I've always like Chow, he's a man's man to a fault, but does this mean Utah will
abandon the offense that was given them on a silver platter by Coach Myer? If Utah goes to the BYU offense of the 80 & 90's and the USC offense
of the 2000, next year will have a major learning curve. It is complex and takes
time to get to full speed. I don't agree that Chow failed at UCLA, I
think Neuhisel failed to use Norm Chow.
We've been hearing these doomsday speeches from the likes of Duckhunter and Xpat
for decades now. You keep wishing and hoping for our demise, we'll just keeping
building our program.
Dutchman, Chow left for USC while he was playing a hot hand -- can't blame him a
bit for wanting to try the big stage, to strike while the iron was hot. Except
for Titans, he as had a record of initial success, but difficult to sustain over
3-4 years. At BYU once he was actually named OC, he was a GREAT caretaker of
that offense initially, but unlike Painter, Scoville, Tollner, etc. before him,
was unable to evolve and innovate. Fans became restless as defenses
"caught up" and his offense became pedestrian and predictable. GREAT
1st season at NCSU, but after the second year of struggling, he would have been
stupid not to jump to USC if they were interested.
@ magna ute fanDecades huh? LOLConsidering the utah
football team has only been good for about 7 years, and then only a couple of
years have been really good, I don't think you have been hearing anything from
anyone for "decades". But I gave an honest assessment of
where I htink they will be next year and why I think it. I would love to hear
your reasons why you disagree since it is obvious that you do. Do you actually
think those things I listed shouldn't be a concern? If they shouldn't be what
are your reasons to believe they aren't?I'm willing to have an
honest discussion with you about it minus all the jokes and insults. Let's hear
your reasons why the offense will be good next year.
Scott Wolf, who covered USC, reported on January 21, 2008:Relations
between Pete Carroll and Norm Chow deteriorated over time. Carroll resented how
Chow always got credited with the success of the offense and quarterbacks
winning the Heisman Trophy. He worried recruits would think the offense would
fall apart if Chow ever left. On top of this, Lane Kiffin and Chow barely spoke
and had at best a strained and sometimes hostile relationship. Chow resented the
way Carroll increasingly meddled with the offense. Things reached a head in
January of 2005. Carroll, Kiffin and Steve Sarkisian met in Mobile, Ala., at the
Senior Bowl and talked about a plan to bring Sarkisian back from the Raiders,
where he was an assistant and kick Chow into the job of assistant head coach.
Now, to be fair, Chow could also be aloof and paranoid at times and his quiet
demeanor is not the type of personality Carroll seems to prefer on his coaching
staff. With all of this going on, Chow was offered the Titans job. Meanwhile
Chow no longer speaks to Sarkisian, feeling he was betrayed by his former
@Duckhunter - You don't have to be really good to be mocked by your rival. I remember sitting in LES in 1999 with an avid cougar friend. I told
him that Chris Hill and Ron McBride had some momentum building and that they
were going to build a great football program. He laughed and laughed and
laughed. I guess it was the funniest thing he had ever heard. (I doubt he
laughed at all last summer when the Utes joined the PAC.)So cougars
have been deriding Utah's football program since the 80's, saying that Utah
could never build a decent program. You keep wishing and hoping
for our demise, we'll just keeping building our program.
Poor jealous little brothers with nothing better to do than obsess about the
Utes!! Don't you have a game to get ready for tonight?You are going
to need all the luck you can get. After this game you weak bench will be
exposed. I expect you will keep it close until about the last 10 minutes of the
@dutchmanSo it would appear chow is petty and holds grudges despite
his assertions to the contrary. It also appears he can't get along with, well,
anyone. He seems to wear out his welcome rather fast and in fact the only place
he hasn't done that is at BYU where the ever patient, and loyal, Lavell Edwards
was willing to put up with his surly demeanor and arrogance. But then that isn't
really the case because eventually BYU tired of hm as well.Of course
that probably won't be the case at utah where no one expects him to stay more
than a few years although it should be a concern that he won't really fill this
"elder statesmen and patient teacher" role that most ute
"fans" seem to think he is supposed to fill.I think you
will all tire of him much like everyone else, at everywhere else he has
previously been, has done. The question is can he do some positive stuff for the
utah program before that occurs. I guess we'll find out although with the
reputed micromanaging of whittingham I think they'll but heads sooner than
I think the hire is great. 1 he can help the Utes into the pac 12. 2 If the old
oc will listen to him he will learn a lot. 3 What qb would not want to play for
Chow. They have been moving away, from the spred offensive for about 3 years
now. I think the UofU will be just fine with the TE,and RB's they have now. And
i bet you they land a great QB in the next week or 2.
@magna ute fanAnd I sat in res this year and watched a drunk and
stupid ute "fan" hop up and flip off the KSL helicopter while yelling
"blankin" Mormons every time it flew over head.I had a ute
"fan" come running up and get in my face as I walked into res this
year waving his arms like a madman and yelling "You leave! You leave
now!" simply because I was wearing my BYU gear and attending the game.I've listened to the absolute hate and bigotry spouted by ute
"fans" for the last 30 years as their bitterness and jealousy poured
out through their behavior. I watched a ute "fan" throw a
half filled water bottle at Bronco as he did his post game interview in the
corner of res after the game. If the worst you have endured is some
BYU fans telling you you'll never be any good then I would say you have had it
pretty easy in comparison.I have now doubt you felt like that was
persecution though. I also wonder why that BYU fan "friend" of yours
would have had any reason to believe your assertion then anyway?
"Utah coach Kyle Whittingham reached out to one of his old cohorts and one
of the great offensive minds in college football to help revitalize his team's
offensive philosophy and production." Old being the operative word and
great offensive mind .... at one time. "For starters, Chow has
groomed many quality quarterbacks, a list reading like a Who's Who of star
signal-callers McMahon, Young, Bosco, Detmer, Rivers, Palmer and
Leinart."USC is in the same Pac 10 that UCLA was in. What did
Chow do at UCLA? Utes, you can have him. If you think Chow will turn your
offense around, so be it. I don't see it.
@nothegame"What qb would not want to play for Chow?"Obviously the brown kid who went back on his "committment"
just a couple of days after chow was hired. I don't think chow is everything ute
"fans" think he is. I don't think he is washed up either but he is
certainly not some guru that qb's just have to play for or else that kid would
have kept his "committment" wouldn't he have?Instead the
kid bailed for Washington whose coach is chow's nemesis according to dutchman.
I'm tired of hearing all the talk about how Chow's offense is stuck in the 80's
and that it hasn't evolved. If the pro style is so "old school", then
why does all the NFL still run it? Why doesn't the spread attack infiltrate the
NFL. Because it's not sustainable...just a college football fad. I heard on
the radio that 80 of the 119 Div1 teams now run some variation of the spread.
That means 80 schools are going after the "duel threat" quarterback
and all of the spread type guys. I think its a smart move to go to an offense
that has been tried and true and, if run well, is hard to stop. It will also
help recruiting where there are fewer and fewer teams looking for the pro style
QB, RB, full back, etc. Utah's offense will be just fine, but it
may take a year or so. As for Roderick....smart move by him to stay on and be
mentored by a legend then take over a PAC12 offense in 2-3 years. Good move
The fact is, all of Norm Chows great offensive years have been anchored by
legends at the QB position. Every one of Chows great seasons can be directly
linked to a Heisman Trophy winning QB, Super Bowl MVP, or All-American. Every
year Chow had a great QB, his offense thrived, when he did not his offense was
mediocre at best. The painful fact is Utah simply does not have a
great QB to run a Norm Chow offense. The other pieces could very well be in
place, but without a great QB, we are looking at the difference between Chow's
Offense at UCLA last season and his USC offense in 2003.The QB makes
all the difference in a Norm Chow Offense. In other words, in order to
have success with Chow, Utah will need to replace Jordan Wynn. And fast.
Magna Ute Fan : I've been saving all of the Duckhunters statements so when
the go a fowl for him he can waddle back to the Geneva tailings and stand in the
groundwater where it affected his coconut. Lead poisoning is not just for the
birds. I plan on posting them so he'll have to eat crow instead of Donald and
Daisy. I think he just wants to stir up the water and ruffle feathers.
Utah's coaching will surface, as they have in the past, pick the best athlete
and build him from ground up. From what I've read the Duck is out of luck and
shooting blanks. Chow time indeed. Go Utes !!!
Duckhunter,Thats your take on it. A Los Angeles Times sports writer
by the name of BILL PLASCHKE wrote an article on December 05, 2008 with a
different point of view. Because of word limitations here you will have to look
it up yourself but he stated in part:The truth is, if Chow did not
leave USC in 2005 after a personality clash with Carroll, they could have played
for three more national titles. The truth is, in each of the first three
seasons after Chow left, in three games they should have won, the Trojans
offense slipped into a confused funk that led to three defeats.
So. Cal Reader,"What did Chow do at UCLA?"The
UCLA stint has been analyzed by several posters on this board. Please go back
and read them. thanks.
Duckhunter,Pete Carroll recently fired his offensive coordinator at
the Seahawks after only one season. So, why did Carroll hire this guy last
year? Seems like Carroll is the guy with relationship and people skills
problems not Chow.So. Cal Reader,"Old being the
operative word and great offensive mind .... at one time."It's
a good thing you were not General Eisenhower during WW II. You would have not
had George Patton on your staff believing he was too old to lead an Army. We
all know what Patton accomplished or do you need to brush up on your WW II
How 'bout angry little bro criticizing Norm Chow?! Awesome. Predictable.
Duckhunter,So you're saying some Ute fans are morons? I won't
disagree.You're saying some Ute fans were jerks? They were rude to
you and hurt your feelings? I don't doubt it. I'm sorry this rivalry gets out
of hand. Of course, I think some byu fans are jerks and some have
serious "holier than thou" issues.But, I think we digress.
My point was that cougar fans have been predicting doomsday for the Utah
program for as long as I can remember. (BTW Utah didn't become a good program
AND win the Fiesta bowl in 2004. It was building up to that point for a good
decade.) No, I don't know how our offense is going to do this year.
But, I think we have some terrific student athletes. I am excited about Coach
Chow joining our staff. I think we have a lot of reasons to be optimistic.I am stoked to see my boys in red take on new challenges in a new
Chow and Davis on the staff together at USC for two NC's and taking the same
positions at Utah with a defensive minded head coach and strong staff of young
recruiters...The offense will be just fine. Cougar trolls go away.
That is all!
re: Duckhunter | 12:34 p.m. Jan. 26, 2011 "In short the concern
should be the personel not the coach."For the most part agreed.
There are exceptions. As a Miami Dolphins fan, I am so relieved that Dan Henning
has ridden off into the sunset.
BYU fans before you go off on UCLA or USC 2 teams you know nothing about I would
be focusing on finishing 500 next year and playing UTEP in the NOBODYCARES BOWL
where the stands are empty. You guys are the most bizzare fans you act like your
this top program just because you left the MTN WORST and went indy? Now that
means you have to schedule the big boys and win . . WIll not happen! If you have
not gone to a BCS bowl yet with all the good teams in the past, your probably
not gonna ever go. Face the facts! The ship has sailed.
Riley - Not sure we can play with 12. We moving to the Canadian Football League
instead of the PAC?
does anyone remember when some dude named urban meyer showed up in salt lake,
implemented a spread offense (which at the time was in it's infancy in college
football) that people said wouldn't work, and in two short years he took a group
of ron mcbride recruits who hovered around the .500 mark to a 22-2 record, two
mwc championships, a fiesta bowl victory, and a top 5 ranking?i'm
not comparing chow to meyer or meyer to chow but it does show that a change of
personnel can have a huge positive effect.i expect chow to come in
and turn out a productive offense. chow can mold a qb as good as anyone and all
of this PAC experience talk aside, he is just a good old boy with an impressive
track record that put in the work and has been largely successful his entire
career. i think most people would want this guy in their booth.
Re: DutchmanYou posted...Two national championships at USC and two
Heisman trophy winners?I am left wondering why you didn't list
Norm's two greatest acheivements? Per Norm, they are...drum roll
please...National Championship and Heisman trophy winner at BYU.Give
the man credit where credit is due.
Having Norm as the OC will not change the Yewet cookie recipe...put them in a
big Bowl, then beat them for three hours.