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View from the Booth: View from the booth: Utes have the pieces in place for Norm Chow

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  • nottyou Riverton, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 5:28 a.m.

    The pieces were in place at UCLA too...that worked out well for them!

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    Jan. 26, 2011 7:21 a.m.

    AND we've learned that his offense has been ineffective in the PAC10, having been given the keys to the two 'legendary' programs of the conference, yet unable to sustain success (or keep the job) at either. I still don't quite get this hire. Love Norm Chow and he has built a fantastic career and reputation for himself. And while I'm OK with 'retro', it's odd that in an era of innovative offenses and with two bright, young, energetic minds on staff, Kyle chose to go with the best offense of the 80's. Hmmmmm....

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    Jan. 26, 2011 8:00 a.m.

    Riverton High had all the pieces to..... until they played Bingham. Whats your point? He is in a completely different situation coming to the U. Ucla has its problems starting with there head coach. He wanted to run a pistol offense with a qb and o line who werent capable, evidence of this is total production in yards on offense last year. Chow tried his best with what he had to work with which wasnt much. They also had less talented players. The Utes have more talent. Granted Wynn has critics, majority are troll tds fans but he will get his chance in Chow's offense. If he falters they will mix it up with another qb. You cant write off the fact that Chow knows how to develop NFL caliber qb's starting at byu then usc. I hope that he is able to shake things up with the offense.

  • RobSing Minneapolis, MN
    Jan. 26, 2011 8:03 a.m.

    hmmmm? I sense a byu fans doing everything in their power to downplay Norm Chow's arrival at Utah and trying to come up with as many negatives as possible. You are sad sad people.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 8:06 a.m.

    My question is, if Wynn is not healed and ready for spring ball how is he going to be the starter at QB in the fall? Chow is going to put his offense in during spring drills. If Wynn is not available my guess is he red shirts and the QB duties are handed to someone else.

    nottyou,

    UCLA never handed Chow the complete run of the offense. Nueheisel was a QB himself and an offensive coordinator for the Balitmore Ravens for one. Rick always had he fingers in the offense and never allowed Chow full control. It didn't work at UCLA. So what?

    Hawk,

    You are kidding, right? Two national championships at USC and two Heisman trophy winners? It worked at USC because Carroll did let Chow run the show. As for why Chow left to join the Titans I am not sure. Maybe it was more money. If you know something more that you can support please let me know. I would like to know myself.

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    Jan. 26, 2011 8:29 a.m.

    Sorry, Rob, don't let me rain on your parade -- to be fair, I DO get all of the PR, mentoring, national reputation, "former ute comes home", PAC10 experience, etc. benefits for utah, so I don't want to 'downplay' his arrival at all. But how long is a high-potential guy like Roderick (who in reality takes a demotion with this move) willing to stick around? Just sayin'....

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    Jan. 26, 2011 8:36 a.m.

    Yeah, Dutchman, and Gary Crowton was BRILLIANT in his first year -- "sustain" being the operative phrase here. With the utes moving on, I'm happy for them AND Norm and am very interested to see how this plays out....

  • WhoAmISir Holladay, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 8:56 a.m.

    Hawk - I have read A LOT about the situation with Chow and here is MHO. He is here to help with the transition AND at the same time take 3 high potential, high performing coaches and help them reach their highest potential and performance. After a few years, 2 or 3, I expect him to as he said it "ride off into the sunset". Leaving Utah with highly polished assistant coaches, Offensive Coordinators and head coaches in waiting. Now the trick is with those pedigrees can we keep those coaches for succession purposes? Again this is all my assumption so all I can do is get in what looks like a hotrod built for endurance and enjoy the ride. I hope all in the state of Utah can join in and enjoy it too!

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    Hawk,

    You didn't answer my question. I respectfully want to know why Chow left USC for the Titans. If you have reliable information please share it. Thanks.

  • pocyUte2 Pocatello, Id
    Jan. 26, 2011 9:21 a.m.

    Riles

    Don't forget about one Lucky Radley. I expect him to be a big contributor this season.

    Go Utes

  • Big_Ben Centerville, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 9:38 a.m.

    "History tells us that Chow's offensive setups have almost always consisted of two backs, a tight end and three wide receivers"

    Ummm bill......2 backs + 1 tight end + 3 receivers + 5 offensive lineman + 1 quarterback = 12 players.

    nice math.

  • Pavalova Surfers Paradise, AU
    Jan. 26, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    I think he'll do well at the U. He's a good man and has a good heart as well. I think he and Whit and the rest of the staff will work well together. Good luck Utes.

  • joek Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 11:09 a.m.

    Hawk,

    I significantly dispute your claim that Chow is from the 80's, can't keep a job, and can't sustain a program.

    He is an 80's coach?

    1999 Assistant COY, 2002 Top Collegiate assistant coach, 2002 Coordinator of the year.
    Coaching positions: 01-04 USC, 05-07 Titans, 08-10 UCLA
    You don't win those awards or coach at those schools if you aren't great at what you do, those are all within the last 10 years.
    If you look at the QB awards that list doubles including Heisman Trophy awards and Rookie of the Year Awards.

    Can't sustain?

    -BYU 1982-1999 highly sustained program do you dispute? Called Quarterback U during his tenure. How many great QBs?
    -USC was called the PAC1+0 during his offensive reign, sustained a program during his tenure.

    Unable to keep a job?
    If you call getting a promotion unable to keep a job than your crazy.

  • joek Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 11:32 a.m.

    To say that he has lost his edge looking at either the titans or UCLA is wrong in my opinion.

    The Titans were a bad team when he got there and their record improved each year he was there. Rookie of the Year QB during his time.

    Could have been fired for any number of reasons including: coach needed a fall guy, didn't get along with coach, or Chow was more of a college coach type guy (Nick Saben great college poor pro coach).

    If Tennessee had any bearing UCLA wouldn't have hired him and paid him more than a million dollars.

    I don't believe you can say he is slipping based on his experience at UCLA either. 1- he didn't have full control of the offense or the offensive style 2- his starting QB was injured (look at Oklahoma after Bradford was injured) 3- Rick Neuheisel is about to lose his job and needed somebody to blaim

    I am very excited that we bring in a coach with such experience, success, and knowledge. What other coach could we get who knows three of our main rivals so well (BYU, USC, UCLA).

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 12:34 p.m.

    I don't think the game has passed chow by although it is fun to tease utah "fans" with that. I have no doubt chow can still coordinate a good offense. The conern for ute "fans" shouldn't be chow. The conern should be the personel.

    I think wynn is terrible. He is weak armed, inaccurate, immoble and a bit of a wimp that is scared to take a hit. That is not what you want in your qb.

    The o-line was not good to finish the season and they lose some of them, probably the best of them. The rb's have never played a single second of D1 fball. The wr's will probably be ok and they have a track record of good wr's so that probably isn't a worry. But the TE isn't a position they have recruited for over a decade. There is no reason to believe anyone they have on scholarship at that position is any good. No track record of having good ones and not using them doesn't inspire any confidence in what they have.

    In short the concern should be the personel not the coach.

  • AltaHawkFan Sandy, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 12:41 p.m.

    Re: joke

    Take off the rose colored glasses and try to be objective.

    1. Chow does have experience in the Pac 10 which should be a positive, however, the Pac 10 is very familiar with Chow's offenses too which will be a negative.

    2. Don't try to put lipstick on a pig. No matter how you spin it or the reasons why, Chow's offenses at UCLA and the Titans were horrible. The Titans record improved because their defense improved ... not the offense.

    3. utah does NOT have more talent than UCLA. Look at recent recruiting classes. UCLA has had 3 consecutive top 10 recruiting classes .. utah is not even close.

    4. Chow did have success at USC but they are on a whole different level as far as talent goes. In some respects, they were a Pro team playing college football.

    Don't get your hopes up for next year. Despite what Bill wrote, the utes will be very shaky on offense next year. utah's QB and RB situations are scary at best. Trying to implement a new offensive scheme with unproven players is not a recipe for success no matter how you spin it.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    Jan. 26, 2011 12:56 p.m.

    I've always like Chow, he's a man's man to a fault, but does this mean Utah will abandon the offense that was given them on a silver platter by Coach Myer?

    If Utah goes to the BYU offense of the 80 & 90's and the USC offense of the 2000, next year will have a major learning curve. It is complex and takes time to get to full speed.

    I don't agree that Chow failed at UCLA, I think Neuhisel failed to use Norm Chow.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 1:08 p.m.

    We've been hearing these doomsday speeches from the likes of Duckhunter and Xpat for decades now. You keep wishing and hoping for our demise, we'll just keeping building our program.

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    Jan. 26, 2011 1:16 p.m.

    Dutchman, Chow left for USC while he was playing a hot hand -- can't blame him a bit for wanting to try the big stage, to strike while the iron was hot. Except for Titans, he as had a record of initial success, but difficult to sustain over 3-4 years. At BYU once he was actually named OC, he was a GREAT caretaker of that offense initially, but unlike Painter, Scoville, Tollner, etc. before him, was unable to evolve and innovate. Fans became restless as defenses "caught up" and his offense became pedestrian and predictable. GREAT 1st season at NCSU, but after the second year of struggling, he would have been stupid not to jump to USC if they were interested.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 1:52 p.m.

    @ magna ute fan

    Decades huh? LOL

    Considering the utah football team has only been good for about 7 years, and then only a couple of years have been really good, I don't think you have been hearing anything from anyone for "decades".

    But I gave an honest assessment of where I htink they will be next year and why I think it. I would love to hear your reasons why you disagree since it is obvious that you do. Do you actually think those things I listed shouldn't be a concern? If they shouldn't be what are your reasons to believe they aren't?

    I'm willing to have an honest discussion with you about it minus all the jokes and insults. Let's hear your reasons why the offense will be good next year.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    Scott Wolf, who covered USC, reported on January 21, 2008:

    Relations between Pete Carroll and Norm Chow deteriorated over time. Carroll resented how Chow always got credited with the success of the offense and quarterbacks winning the Heisman Trophy. He worried recruits would think the offense would fall apart if Chow ever left. On top of this, Lane Kiffin and Chow barely spoke and had at best a strained and sometimes hostile relationship. Chow resented the way Carroll increasingly meddled with the offense. Things reached a head in January of 2005. Carroll, Kiffin and Steve Sarkisian met in Mobile, Ala., at the Senior Bowl and talked about a plan to bring Sarkisian back from the Raiders, where he was an assistant and kick Chow into the job of assistant head coach. Now, to be fair, Chow could also be aloof and paranoid at times and his quiet demeanor is not the type of personality Carroll seems to prefer on his coaching staff. With all of this going on, Chow was offered the Titans job. Meanwhile Chow no longer speaks to Sarkisian, feeling he was betrayed by his former protege.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 3:00 p.m.

    @Duckhunter - You don't have to be really good to be mocked by your rival.

    I remember sitting in LES in 1999 with an avid cougar friend. I told him that Chris Hill and Ron McBride had some momentum building and that they were going to build a great football program. He laughed and laughed and laughed. I guess it was the funniest thing he had ever heard. (I doubt he laughed at all last summer when the Utes joined the PAC.)

    So cougars have been deriding Utah's football program since the 80's, saying that Utah could never build a decent program.

    You keep wishing and hoping for our demise, we'll just keeping building our program.

  • Dave S Holladay, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 3:15 p.m.

    Poor jealous little brothers with nothing better to do than obsess about the Utes!! Don't you have a game to get ready for tonight?

    You are going to need all the luck you can get. After this game you weak bench will be exposed. I expect you will keep it close until about the last 10 minutes of the game.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    @dutchman

    So it would appear chow is petty and holds grudges despite his assertions to the contrary. It also appears he can't get along with, well, anyone. He seems to wear out his welcome rather fast and in fact the only place he hasn't done that is at BYU where the ever patient, and loyal, Lavell Edwards was willing to put up with his surly demeanor and arrogance. But then that isn't really the case because eventually BYU tired of hm as well.

    Of course that probably won't be the case at utah where no one expects him to stay more than a few years although it should be a concern that he won't really fill this "elder statesmen and patient teacher" role that most ute "fans" seem to think he is supposed to fill.

    I think you will all tire of him much like everyone else, at everywhere else he has previously been, has done. The question is can he do some positive stuff for the utah program before that occurs. I guess we'll find out although with the reputed micromanaging of whittingham I think they'll but heads sooner than later.

  • nothegame Saratoga Springs, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    I think the hire is great. 1 he can help the Utes into the pac 12. 2 If the old oc will listen to him he will learn a lot. 3 What qb would not want to play for Chow. They have been moving away, from the spred offensive for about 3 years now. I think the UofU will be just fine with the TE,and RB's they have now. And i bet you they land a great QB in the next week or 2.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 3:27 p.m.

    @magna ute fan

    And I sat in res this year and watched a drunk and stupid ute "fan" hop up and flip off the KSL helicopter while yelling "blankin" Mormons every time it flew over head.

    I had a ute "fan" come running up and get in my face as I walked into res this year waving his arms like a madman and yelling "You leave! You leave now!" simply because I was wearing my BYU gear and attending the game.

    I've listened to the absolute hate and bigotry spouted by ute "fans" for the last 30 years as their bitterness and jealousy poured out through their behavior.

    I watched a ute "fan" throw a half filled water bottle at Bronco as he did his post game interview in the corner of res after the game.

    If the worst you have endured is some BYU fans telling you you'll never be any good then I would say you have had it pretty easy in comparison.

    I have now doubt you felt like that was persecution though. I also wonder why that BYU fan "friend" of yours would have had any reason to believe your assertion then anyway?

  • So. Cal Reader Escondido, CA
    Jan. 26, 2011 3:38 p.m.

    "Utah coach Kyle Whittingham reached out to one of his old cohorts and one of the great offensive minds in college football to help revitalize his team's offensive philosophy and production." Old being the operative word and great offensive mind .... at one time.

    "For starters, Chow has groomed many quality quarterbacks, a list reading like a Who's Who of star signal-callers McMahon, Young, Bosco, Detmer, Rivers, Palmer and Leinart."

    USC is in the same Pac 10 that UCLA was in. What did Chow do at UCLA? Utes, you can have him. If you think Chow will turn your offense around, so be it. I don't see it.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    @nothegame

    "What qb would not want to play for Chow?"

    Obviously the brown kid who went back on his "committment" just a couple of days after chow was hired. I don't think chow is everything ute "fans" think he is. I don't think he is washed up either but he is certainly not some guru that qb's just have to play for or else that kid would have kept his "committment" wouldn't he have?

    Instead the kid bailed for Washington whose coach is chow's nemesis according to dutchman.

  • ute4ever West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 3:49 p.m.

    I'm tired of hearing all the talk about how Chow's offense is stuck in the 80's and that it hasn't evolved. If the pro style is so "old school", then why does all the NFL still run it? Why doesn't the spread attack infiltrate the NFL. Because it's not sustainable...just a college football fad. I heard on the radio that 80 of the 119 Div1 teams now run some variation of the spread. That means 80 schools are going after the "duel threat" quarterback and all of the spread type guys. I think its a smart move to go to an offense that has been tried and true and, if run well, is hard to stop. It will also help recruiting where there are fewer and fewer teams looking for the pro style QB, RB, full back, etc.

    Utah's offense will be just fine, but it may take a year or so. As for Roderick....smart move by him to stay on and be mentored by a legend then take over a PAC12 offense in 2-3 years. Good move Utes!!

  • --JEFFE-- Cedar City, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 3:53 p.m.

    The fact is, all of Norm Chows great offensive years have been anchored by legends at the QB position. Every one of Chows great seasons can be directly linked to a Heisman Trophy winning QB, Super Bowl MVP, or All-American. Every year Chow had a great QB, his offense thrived, when he did not his offense was mediocre at best.

    The painful fact is Utah simply does not have a great QB to run a Norm Chow offense. The other pieces could very well be in place, but without a great QB, we are looking at the difference between Chow's Offense at UCLA last season and his USC offense in 2003.

    The QB makes all the difference in a Norm Chow Offense.
    In other words, in order to have success with Chow, Utah will need to replace Jordan Wynn. And fast.

  • TheHailstorm South Weber, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 4:01 p.m.

    Magna Ute Fan :
    I've been saving all of the Duckhunters statements so when the go a fowl for him he can waddle back to the Geneva tailings and stand in the groundwater where it affected his coconut. Lead poisoning is not just for the birds. I plan on posting them so he'll have to eat crow instead of Donald and Daisy.
    I think he just wants to stir up the water and ruffle feathers. Utah's coaching will surface, as they have in the past, pick the best athlete and build him from ground up. From what I've read the Duck is out of luck and shooting blanks.
    Chow time indeed.
    Go Utes !!!

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 4:03 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    Thats your take on it. A Los Angeles Times sports writer by the name of BILL PLASCHKE wrote an article on December 05, 2008 with a different point of view. Because of word limitations here you will have to look it up yourself but he stated in part:

    The truth is, if Chow did not leave USC in 2005 after a personality clash with Carroll, they could have played for three more national titles. The truth is, in each of the first three seasons after Chow left, in three games they should have won, the Trojans offense slipped into a confused funk that led to three defeats.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 4:17 p.m.

    So. Cal Reader,

    "What did Chow do at UCLA?"

    The UCLA stint has been analyzed by several posters on this board. Please go back and read them. thanks.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 5:44 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    Pete Carroll recently fired his offensive coordinator at the Seahawks after only one season. So, why did Carroll hire this guy last year? Seems like Carroll is the guy with relationship and people skills problems not Chow.

    So. Cal Reader,

    "Old being the operative word and great offensive mind .... at one time."

    It's a good thing you were not General Eisenhower during WW II. You would have not had George Patton on your staff believing he was too old to lead an Army. We all know what Patton accomplished or do you need to brush up on your WW II history?

  • MenaceToSociety Draper, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 5:49 p.m.

    How 'bout angry little bro criticizing Norm Chow?! Awesome. Predictable.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 6:18 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    So you're saying some Ute fans are morons? I won't disagree.

    You're saying some Ute fans were jerks? They were rude to you and hurt your feelings? I don't doubt it. I'm sorry this rivalry gets out of hand.

    Of course, I think some byu fans are jerks and some have serious "holier than thou" issues.

    But, I think we digress. My point was that cougar fans have been predicting doomsday for the Utah program for as long as I can remember. (BTW Utah didn't become a good program AND win the Fiesta bowl in 2004. It was building up to that point for a good decade.)

    No, I don't know how our offense is going to do this year. But, I think we have some terrific student athletes. I am excited about Coach Chow joining our staff. I think we have a lot of reasons to be optimistic.

    I am stoked to see my boys in red take on new challenges in a new season!

  • UteMan South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 6:25 p.m.

    Chow and Davis on the staff together at USC for two NC's and taking the same positions at Utah with a defensive minded head coach and strong staff of young recruiters...The offense will be just fine.

    Cougar trolls go away.

    That is all!

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Jan. 26, 2011 8:41 p.m.

    re: Duckhunter | 12:34 p.m. Jan. 26, 2011

    "In short the concern should be the personel not the coach."

    For the most part agreed. There are exceptions. As a Miami Dolphins fan, I am so relieved that Dan Henning has ridden off into the sunset.

  • crowntown1 Corona, CA
    Jan. 26, 2011 9:18 p.m.

    BYU fans before you go off on UCLA or USC 2 teams you know nothing about I would be focusing on finishing 500 next year and playing UTEP in the NOBODYCARES BOWL where the stands are empty. You guys are the most bizzare fans you act like your this top program just because you left the MTN WORST and went indy? Now that means you have to schedule the big boys and win . . WIll not happen! If you have not gone to a BCS bowl yet with all the good teams in the past, your probably not gonna ever go. Face the facts! The ship has sailed.

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 27, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    Riley - Not sure we can play with 12. We moving to the Canadian Football League instead of the PAC?

  • butters Salt Lake city, UT
    Jan. 27, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    does anyone remember when some dude named urban meyer showed up in salt lake, implemented a spread offense (which at the time was in it's infancy in college football) that people said wouldn't work, and in two short years he took a group of ron mcbride recruits who hovered around the .500 mark to a 22-2 record, two mwc championships, a fiesta bowl victory, and a top 5 ranking?

    i'm not comparing chow to meyer or meyer to chow but it does show that a change of personnel can have a huge positive effect.

    i expect chow to come in and turn out a productive offense. chow can mold a qb as good as anyone and all of this PAC experience talk aside, he is just a good old boy with an impressive track record that put in the work and has been largely successful his entire career. i think most people would want this guy in their booth.

  • Cali Coug Visalia, CA
    Jan. 28, 2011 3:35 p.m.

    Re: Dutchman

    You posted...Two national championships at USC and two Heisman trophy winners?

    I am left wondering why you didn't list Norm's two greatest acheivements? Per Norm, they are...drum roll please...National Championship and Heisman trophy winner at BYU.

    Give the man credit where credit is due.

  • Cali Coug Visalia, CA
    Jan. 28, 2011 7:29 p.m.

    Having Norm as the OC will not change the Yewet cookie recipe...put them in a big Bowl, then beat them for three hours.