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Sen. Luz Robles' bill could become national model

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  • AmPatriot Kearns, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:44 a.m.

    Perhaps Senator Robles should read some of our federal laws before attempting to violate our constitutional government. The federal labor laws state that no illegal aliens, including those renamed immigrant to muddle the issue, cannot be employed in the Untied States by any company, business, or government. They are not even allowed to open a business by our state laws.

    Robles better learn she represent citizens of america, not illegal foreign nationals from Mexico. Her being a Mexican does not give her the right to represent illegal Mexicans who she can't even identify or name. She is representing ghost foreign occupation by ghost residents. These ghost residents are a curse and a plague for the economy of the State.

    Robles cannot write a state laws to invalidate any federal laws which this one of his is attempting to do.

    This bill is violating federal labor laws as well as federal immigration laws, a double whammy criminal attempt to save the illegal from deportation and use Utah as a sanction state to hide them from the federal government.

    This bill and all like it are in complete violation of the constitutional laws and rights of citizens of this country.

  • Eliot Santaquin, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 6:25 a.m.

    Calling Robles' bill bipartisan because it has support from the Sutherland Institute is wishful thinking. In a legislature dominated by Republicans, the bill has no chance for success if it doesn't have support from Republican lawmakers. Nothing written in this article leads me to believe the bill has support from any Republican. Ironically, if Robles' bill becomes a national model as suggested here, it will have to do so without being passed in her own state.

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 6:32 a.m.

    National model? I hope not!

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 7:38 a.m.

    At last some sanity with the hard work of Luz Robles!

    One has to wonder, with today's hard-line Republicans and the tea-party bullheadedness in Utah, will reason ever prevail here in the state?

    Fortunately, the Utah delegation to our nation's Senate and Congress hardly ever prevails upon the more rational approach to lawmaking in Washington.

    Would the Declaration of Independence have ever won approval had it's signers been of the mind as most of Utah's politicians? I think not.

    By the same token, would the Constitution have ever won a majority of votes if the current non-negotiating, uncooperative, unrelenting approach of our state's politicians had represented the majority of thinking in 1883? The answer to that is a resounding NO!

    More power to you, Luz Robles!

  • CJ Murray, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 7:40 a.m.

    National model? of what? Insanity?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 8:13 a.m.

    "Because immigrants would be required to carry their permit on them at all times, Robles' believes the bill would help law enforcement weed out criminals."

    And when would they be asked to show this permit?? Would law enforcement have to have some reasonable suspicion that they are immigrants required to carry the permit?

    How is that DIFFERENT from the provisions of AZ's law all the liberals call RACIAL PROFILING? This bill, in practice, would require just as much racial profiling as AZ's law. Of course, I don't believe it's racial profiling, but those who want amnesty for illegals ignore the same basic requirement in Robles amnesty bill they call racist in AZ's bill - hypocrits.

    No way this thinly veiled amnesty bill gets trough the Utah legislature. The Sutherland Institute must be heavily dominated by businesses who use cheap illegal immigrant labor.

  • carydc Tremont, IL
    Jan. 6, 2011 8:17 a.m.

    Sen Robles bill flies in the face of federal regulations. This is another if passed will end up in the courts.

    Illegal is Illegal any way you slice it.

    Make the Legal Methods simple and Quick and all will use them. Make them Difficult and Impossible and only those that play the game will comply.

    Immigration needs radically simplified.
    Enforcement needs practical methods that are enforced on ALL immigrants, EVEN CURRENT ILLEGALS.

    Close the Border.

    Get rid of USCIS and Dept of States Immigration VISA Systems. Merge their functions with The US Customs Service. They all handle different portions of the process. That will streamline and shorten the process.

    Register all immigrants here illegally at local customs offices (traditionally the post office, they need justification and funds).

    I know most would say this is insane and not possible.

    Our country does not have the money to support the continued inefficiencies of government. Streamlining is required to fix the budget alone.

    We need comprehensive real fixes.

    Root out Members of Government that are causing inefficiencies and take their pensions from them for their contributions to these issues, being part of the problem and not part of the solution.

  • carydc Tremont, IL
    Jan. 6, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    Have two systems. Immigrants Immigrating to the US Permanently.

    and

    Immigrants (Workers) that are transient. The second are not here permanently. Also any and all children of Transients are NOT American Citizens Period.

    Legalize the process and streamline it all.

    Add residency requirements just as current citizen process requires with maximum time limits that are monitored in a mandatory employment monitoring system (e-verify).

  • danaslc Kearns, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 8:27 a.m.

    A national role model? It goes to show you how out of the loop Robles is. No one will even consider her model. I hope no one else in the nation views this. We are already the laughing stock of America for allowing illegals to drive.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 8:29 a.m.

    Like always reward the ones who broke the law! If you let the ones already here stay they have won!

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 8:43 a.m.

    Re: ". . . bill could become national model."

    Yeah, for illegal, sanctuary-movement-based, amnesty laws.

    This is nothing new. Nothing innovative. Nothing on which any model should be based.

    It's just the same tired "progressive" agenda.

    The only thing new is the political spin.

  • Woody Newbury Park, CA
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    The details are not as important as the process. Someone is thinking outside the box. There are solutions that do not lead to either another Reagan Amnesty or the Great Wall. When someone from the other side offers a creative idea, maybe it can lead toward a solution.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    This can only be a national model as an example of what NOT to do!

    This is not an attempt to fix the problem of illegal immigration, it is an amnesty scheme and nothing more.

    Giving out permits to illegals and then getting tougher on employers is ridiculous.

    This would be like trying to reduce bank robberies by giving robbers a pile of blank checks and penalizing banks for having cash on hand.

    The only proper solution to illegal immigration is to secure the borders, and prosecute violators of our current laws. And, to grant states further powers to round up and deport illegals if the feds will not do it.

    Robles and the Sutherland folks are just plain wrong in their approach!

  • Rosebyanyothername Home Town USA, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:04 a.m.

    This bill and all like it are in complete violation of the constitutional laws and rights of citizens of this country.

    I completely agree. Illegals have no rights, which Robles is so desperately trying to amend.

    This is still an insult to our Constitution. There are NO two ways about it. There is NO way this is going to pass in the UTAH legislature.

    What part of illegal immigration does "LUZITA" not understand? To say it is bipartisan is an insult to my intelligence (and everyone else). You do not have the numbers to carry it anyway.

    Let's make it a voted issue and see how far it doesn't go.

    And how do you expect Ms. Robles, to get the illegals to register? That will never happen. They would be/are perfectly happy to stay anonymous.

    You have got to be kidding yourself and be blindfolded to the truth.

    To many holes in this proposal to carry a bucket of water.

    It is a NO GO.

  • Erika Salem, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:06 a.m.

    I think Robles' bill is encouraging. An if it steps on federal toes -- a fed that is unable to act towards reform itself -- it is in good company with federal laws that needed changing. Sometimes a state has to show the feds how to do things. The US Constitution has proven flexibility in the past when human rights were at issue. It can do it again.

  • skiutah American Fork, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:14 a.m.

    Have anyone read this bill? I just read it and to say that it could become a national model is hard to believe. Illegals want to remain anonymous so they will not get caught by ICE and sent back home to their country of origin. In the last section of the bill it states very clearly that Utah would share the permit holder database with the Feds.

    Am I missing something here? Let me see if I get this straight. If I'm an illegal and I want to remain here, why would I apply for a work permit so that I could have my name put in a "illegal worker" (for all intents and purposes) database. Additionally, business who want to apply to become a "permit holder" employer is voluntary.

    As far as I can tell, who in their right mind would sign up for this. Not the illegals I've run across.

  • skiutah American Fork, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:17 a.m.

    yarrlydarb...read the bill...it won't work!

    Immunity isn't provided and this bill gives ICE a reason to round up all of the illegals and send them home.

    Actually, maybe Robles is on to something. This could save ICE a lot of money.

  • leer Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:20 a.m.

    The bill doesn't have a chance. With no mandatory law enforcement included, it falls way short. Moreover, to say the bill has bipartisan support is simply wrong - over 60 percent of Utahns support enforcement and Sandstrom's bill even though media are not stating this in their one-sided stories. Even the leadership of Hispanic Republican Assembly believes Robles' bill is short on substance and long on ineffective bureaucracy.

  • jim l West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:21 a.m.

    WE do not need guest workers, or illegals, or amnesty. Her bill will never make it in utah or anywhere else.

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:36 a.m.

    So the same people who scream, "States can't mess in an area reserved for the federal government," when a State attempts to help enforce existing federal law, then turn around and support a bill that flat out undermines federal law!?!?!!!??

    The hypocrisy of the pro-illegal-alien crowd is beyond the pale.

    To big business looking for cheap labor to be used and abused, to liberal elites and race baiters looking to undermine our culture while perpetuating a permanent underclass and criminal class I say the same thing:

    The grassroots has had a gut full. Republicans, democrats, and independents alike are sick of this. Read the comments here, or on the SL Tribune. The regular folks, the voters, agree on immigration as we do nothing else.

    With rare exception, among the regular voters, hardcore conservatives, pinko commie liberal, and everyone in between is sick and tired of open borders.

    Cannon and Bennett have been retired at least partly over this issue.

    Let's see how many State legislators want to lose their seats.

  • We the People Sandy, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    This bill is a disaster. Supporters of this bill who hate the AZ law because it "violates federalism" have shown their hand. They do not care about protecting federal power.

  • Adver Taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:47 a.m.

    What a joke! There is only one answer: deport the illegals and jail the companies who employed them! That's the only answer..

  • MVH Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 9:57 a.m.

    "This bill just brings those people to the surface and lets us know who they are and where they live."

    So if we can know where illegal aliens live and who they are, we can certainly send them back to their home country.

  • wear2manyhatz Holladay, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:00 a.m.

    I am not in favor of amnesty, etc. I am in favor of getting to solutions that don't dehumanize illegal immigrants from ANYWHERE (illegals are not all brown).

    How odd that all of you fighting for state's rights can't even allow a discussion of Robles' ideas. Perhaps start with a good idea, and make it better.

    One good idea...admit what you really are.

    Make up your minds, hypocrites!

  • Brother Paul Livermore, CA
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:01 a.m.

    Let US All be nice here.

    I see a lot of negative attitude towards
    recognizing that we are ALL God's children.
    We should respect other's situations and Not
    Judge just because of which side of a "man made"
    border their mother was on when she gave birth.

    Respect is the Word: Red and Yellow, Black and Brown and White, They Are All Precious in His Sight!!

    Thanks to Luz Robles for coming up with some New Ideas!! Hopefully some of them will Help in this
    problem.

    Empathy is a Gift!!

  • Viva la Migra American Fork, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:01 a.m.

    Just yesterday, I was listening to a talk program while driving in Colorado and the hosts were discussing illegal immigration with Congressman Jared Polis. He mentioned that Utah was a State known for being welcoming to illegal aliens.

    At some point it would be nice if Utah would get its act together and actually pass something that cracks down on illegals instead of creating a magnet for them. I'm pretty confident that this attempt at state-based amnesty will not get very far in the GOP dominated legislature.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:05 a.m.

    Passing the responsibility to verify legality from the illegal immigrant to his employer is nonsense. At the very least, the illegal immigrant would still be guilty of being an accessory to an illegal act, just like the driver of the get-away car is as guilty as the bank-robber for whom he 'works'.

    Validating their 'status' and allowing them to 'work' legally just because they're already here would be the same as paying a bank-robber to empty the garbage on his way out of the bank, because 'he was already there'.

    Don't reward corruption.

    Don't reward anything illegal.

    Require that those who are doing anything that is illegal be subject to the full extent of the law. Ignorance of the speed limit is not a valid defense in traffic court, neither is ignorance of our immigration laws a valid defense. Make EVERY person who is here illegally leave the country before being to re-enter.

    Just because politicians are willing to look the other way in exchange for votes does not magically make illegal entry into this country legal.

  • Clueless Rye, CO
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:14 a.m.

    Would it make a difference if these "illegals" were beautiful,blond haired,blue eyed danes,from lets say Denmark or Norway? I`m sure it would.You`re showing your true colors again utah

  • wear2manyhatz Holladay, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:17 a.m.

    And if you're going to treat "illegals" as illegals, what about white collar and politicians who do illegal things? How many are in luxury "jails", or not in jail at all?

    Consistency, my friends.

    "I smell mendacity"

  • Hotrod Sandy, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:21 a.m.

    Elliot, the Sutherland Institute has an extremly liberal view of illegal immigration. Also, Deseret News, call it illegal immigration, not"undocumented worker" Have you noticed supporters of amnesty call them that?

  • mightyhunterhaha Kaysville, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:26 a.m.

    I think this is a great idea but it should be ammended to state Illegals can work but they will be taxed at 50%. This way they can either pay to live here since they are illegal or they can go home.

  • Hotrod Sandy, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:28 a.m.

    Why do liberals like "Clueless" think that if Utah wants to enforce laws because people are breaking the law in front of our face. Only liberals can get angry at the law because they will get more votes if they grant amnesty.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    Making E-Verify mandatory - YES!
    Issuing state work permits - NO!

  • BoomerJeff Saint George, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:32 a.m.

    With real unemployment at 17%, do we really need to let 12 to 25 million additional foreign nationals compete with Americans for work??? Who is Senator Rubles representing??? Certainly not American citizens.

  • Rosebyanyothername Home Town USA, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:34 a.m.

    Great Insight Re: Considering in Stockton, UT!!! Well said.

    Sounds like someone wants us to believe their bill will pass like the Emperor's new clothes s scenario.

    "The hypocrisy of the pro-illegal-alien crowd is beyond the pale."

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    This bill is taking Utah and the rest of the country in the complete WRONG direction. This is sort of a "throw up your hands" bill instead of a law enforcement bill. Just throw up your hands and admit we can't control illegal workers so let's just allow them all in and then "try" to keep track of them. So just open the flood gates and bring in all of these non-tax paying illegals which will bring the public school system to its knees (actually it is already there) and not to say what this will do for the health care system as well as the local county jails. This is INSANE and I hope the Utah legislature gives a quick thumbs down for this thing. This is EXACTLY the sort of thinking that has brought California to bankruptsy.

  • Ethel Home Town USA, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:40 a.m.

    Brother Paul:

    Come on. Read Robles' body language in the photo provided. She has a forlorn look that she is not fully convinced this bill will ever fly.

    Whoa is she. She must have a conflict of interest somewhere. All of God's children should also keep and obey His commandments too. Do they? Laws are laws and are not to be broken or challenged when they are supporting illegal activity. A no brainer.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 10:44 a.m.

    E-verify is the answer and it must be made MANDITORY. Take a look at California right now if you want to see the eventual outcome of promoting and accomidating illegal immigration over the long term. The state is bankrupt. Bankruptsy serves no one - including the lower income citizens - and Ms Robles is more concerned with amnesty for Hispanics than the economic viability of the state.

  • maidenwings WestValleyCity, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2011 11:10 a.m.

    Good for Miss Robles Encourgment
    Helps to others..

    Not everyone is born
    Illegal not everyone is a Criminal!

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    Jan. 6, 2011 11:12 a.m.

    Re: Considering

    I noticed you pointed out the hypocrisy of those who deny AZ's law on basis of Federal law and support this, but conveniently ignore all those that bash this proposal on the basis of federal law (see: first comment), but still support the AZ law. There are clearly two sides to that coin.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    I find the instant antagonism witnessed here against the many advantages of the Robles bill disheartening. I would think that with the recent attention on the harmful consequences of bullying we would be more cautious of those in our society and our state legislature who misconstrue and manipulate the law to rationalize vindictive agendas needlessly harmful to others.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Jan. 6, 2011 11:18 a.m.

    Illegal aliens, undocumented immigrants, whatever you want to call them are not going to leave this country because of tougher laws. Senator Robles idea is different and innovative. Perhaps, her idea will not get very far. But, it is interesting to see a State Senator proposing a law that may actually bring individuals out of the shadows. Some of the complaints against undocumented immigrants is that they don't pay taxes, that they are not accountable to the system, etc. It seems that senator Robles is attempting to confront a problem proposing a legal solution. Vinegar is not working, perhaps is time to start using honey. Amnesty is not a dirty word, actually is a beautiful word that civilized and enlighten people created to prevent further deterioration in a bad situation and give hope a second chance.
    I for one am glad that regardless the result of this proposal, hopefully, a smart and humane dialogue will start. Even the vociferous and angry voice of the "righteous" is being expressed through these coments, it's a beautiful thing :)

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 11:45 a.m.

    "Robles' bill creates a system that would give illegal immigrants already living in the state a legal avenue to work."

    What's next? Giving murderers a legal avenue to murder? Car-jackers a legal avenue to car-jack? Robbers a legal avenue to rob?

    Some innovative thinking is necessary to deal with illegal immigration but this is not it.

  • bodgerdlue Kearns, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 11:53 a.m.

    What I find interesting about this is that when it comes to following imigration laws that have been on the books for years people in this state cry "It's the law, so you shouldn't violate it." Yet when it comes to laws on federal lands the cry is "Tyrany!!!"

  • Clueless Rye, CO
    Jan. 6, 2011 12:03 p.m.

    I`m sure it`s all good when these folks are roofin your house or tending to your chores.But the thought of them learning English and becoming citizens? does racist ring a bell hot rod?

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    "Would it make a difference if these 'illegals' were beautiful,blond haired,blue eyed danes,from lets say Denmark or Norway? I`m sure it would.You`re showing your true colors again utah."

    And in making that statement you show your own bigotry towards an entire state and it's people.

    The answer to your question about the race of an illegal is a resounding no. It would make no difference to me.

    This issue, for the majority of us is not about race, even though some in the pro-illegal crowd continue to try to make it so.

    I've stated this before and I'll state it again and again, shame tactics will not work. We Utahns are way beyond being ashamed of wanting our laws enforced and fairness re-established.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 12:26 p.m.

    I find the virulent rejection expressed by many of the fair and balanced Robles bill astonishing. Recently I have observed that whenever immigration matters are discussed there is an immediate onslaught of tired comments clamoring beyond reason for the prompt and unconditional punishment of all "illegals". Only later are these curious attacks tempered by a diversity of more responsible opinions. Likely what we are witnessing is an organized response by a relatively small group of shills of the radical, supremacist-tinged right attempting to spin their message as the majority view.

  • Bazinga Taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 12:29 p.m.

    In an effort to by openminded about this issue...this is what confuses me.

    Say an illegal alien registers to have a work permit, giving them a legal right to live in Utah. What would happen to this person if the Federal government decided to do their job and enforce Federal laws?

    Obviously, this law goes against Federal law as much, if not more, than Sandstrom's bill (or AZ's law). Where is the outcry that immigration is a Federal issue?

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Jan. 6, 2011 12:37 p.m.

    In principal I like Senator Robles bill. In reality I find it hard to believe it could be in anyway constitutional.

    Congress has the right to control immigration. It is congressionally approved immigrantion laws that allow people to work in the United States.

    Thus it would be over-stepping its legitimate role for a state to grant working rights to people. In fact, due to the wording of the constitution since 1808 the Federal Government has had the uncontested right to determine who can and who can not enter the United States and under what rules such can be done.

    Senator Robles' bill is a good idea, but it has to be done by the Federal Government.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Jan. 6, 2011 12:44 p.m.

    I would have to say that the claim that people who oppose undocumented immigration do not do so because of hate of Mexicans is undermined by the words of some commentors here.

    Still, Senator Robles' proposed law represents much greater conflict with federal power than Arizona's law ever did. In Arizona they just said they would aid the federal government in identifying and detaining people who were not legally here, based on federally formulated rules. Senator Robles is trying to have the state of Utah say "we know you are here in violation of US law, but we will proactivly grant you a right to work, the central issue in federal laws".

    What next, will Robles propse the "international students funding freedom act" which would change the rules for international students working in Utah?

    Congress has the power to determine who has the legal right to work in the United States. Senator Robles bill might be a good solution if it was enacted by the federal government, but it does not work on the state level.

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 12:44 p.m.

    I cannot believe the hardheartedness of most of these comments.

    The world is made up of two types of people: scarcity-minded and abundance-minded.

    The scarcity-minded are always afraid that there exists too little in the world for most persons to survive.

    The abundance-minded know that there is more than enough for everyone.

    Scarcity-minded people are afraid that they will end up having less than they want, so they hoard and hold on to what they think is theirs, never seeming to realize that ALL that they possess is a gift from someone who is all benevolent and loving. Nothing scarcity-minded people "have" truly belongs to them.

    Abundance-minded people know that they will personally possess all that they need, IF they are mindful of the needs of their fellow man.

    Scarcity-minded persons are the most selfish people alive.

    Abundance-minded people are more interested in the welfare of EVERYONE than in themselves alone.

    Scarcity-minded people are pessimists.

    Abundance-minded people are optimists.

    Scarcity-minded people call themselves conservatives.

    Abundance-minded people couldn't care less what others label them. They know we are all children of the same Creator.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Jan. 6, 2011 12:48 p.m.

    While Federal Amnesty of undocumented immigrants is clearly constitutional, state amnesty would seem to be the state taking a federal role.

    The debates about federal "amnesty" and related bills center around what should be done, and what the government is capable of doing, and how much of a police state we want.

    In the state context there is another issue. Does the state have the right to set up an alternative policy? The answer is no. The state can not pass laws that would make it so Jose Contraras and his family can stay here if the Federal Government is determined to deport them. Federal LAw trumps state law, so Utah can not start issuing purple cards as alternative forms of working right to the federal green cards.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Jan. 6, 2011 1:00 p.m.

    How sad it is that some people are so presumptuous and closed-minded as to suggest that only people who agree with their preferred policy can be considered responsible. Disagreeing with your opinion does not, of itself, make another person irresponsible.

    The easiest way to spot someone who is politicking is to find someone who claims that they have cornered the market of responsibility, integrity, or any other virtue.

  • Bobo Magna, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 1:06 p.m.

    I am kind of wondering what element of the illegal issue will actually be resolved through this kooky bill.

    Near as I can tell, all the elements of illegals will continue.

    The magnet of legitimizing some illegals will certainly draw many many more to Utah.

    The Sutherland Institute has sold us out for their cheap labor sponsors.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Jan. 6, 2011 1:12 p.m.

    I will have to second the contention that this bill is not bi-partisan. The Dream Act was, at least in its early days, much more bi-partisan, and that died because not enough Democrats would support it.

    The Dream Act also died because the concerns expressed by Senator Coryn were never addressed. At least if he speaks the truth than Senator Coryn would have supported the Dream Act if it allowed for zero arrests of the beneficiaries.

    Persoanlly I think the Dream Act might have passed if they had lowered the minimum age at entry to 14 or 13, 15 is high to be claiming these are children with no choice in the matter.

    This bill would be in general a fairly good one on the federal level. However as a state bill it does not work.

    Lastly I have to say that the statement about partisan politics killing federal immigration reform needs a lot of balance. During the 109th congress the senate had a bi-partisan group moving forward immigration reform, but it was killed as much due to democrats like Stabenow of Michigan voting against it as by Republicans opposing it.

  • BigPoet Beaverton, OR
    Jan. 6, 2011 1:15 p.m.

    This bill still rewards previous illegal activity.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 1:19 p.m.

    I hope everyone contacts their Legislator and encourages Him/Her to support Rep. Sandstrom's bill. We must make E-verify mandatory state wide. Dry up the Jobs Illegals hold. Stop ALL the State freebies Illegals receive. Pass laws that will cause these people to self deport!

  • Tom Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 1:22 p.m.

    I think that Senator Robles ideas are worthy of discussion. The only way we will ever solve illegal immigration is through allowing enough legal immigration to meet economic realities. In the early 1960 50% of American citizens did not graduate from high school and may have been willing to do some of the jobs these individuals are doing. Presently 10% of American citizens do not graduate from high school. There are not enough high school kids in this country to pick all the fruit and shear all the sheep and do all the landscaping and cleaning in hospitals and hotels and many other areas. We need to realize that these individuals are and can have a greater potential to be an asset to our country. I see many positive comments posted here among those who can not see the workableness of the punishing only solution. If you believe these people are real human beings then it is time to come out of the shadows and sign the Utah Compact.

  • The Rabbit (in Spanish) Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 1:40 p.m.

    I have some rhetorical questions to ask...

    1.) What if the illegals don't follow the rules of this law? Will there be consequences then?

    2.) At what point should the consequences of breaking the law, be harsh enough to deter the crime itself? Is a free ride back to Mexico really a punishment?

    How about if we fly the illegals to Antarctica and let them begin their return journey from there?

  • jim l West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 2:20 p.m.

    When you invite someone to sit down and eat at your table it is called chairty. When it is forced upon you it is called a tax or slavery.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 2:41 p.m.

    If we ever want to get a handle on immigration this bill offers something that is reasonable almost. My concern stems from the fact all immigrants would have to carry papers. Does this mean hispanics who are citizens will have to start proving to police they are here legally? If so this bill is unacceptable. Just like the Arizona law.

    No laws should be allowed which place more of a burden on minorities than the population in general.

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:02 p.m.

    I really don't see most illegals who are either working for cash only or stolen social security numbers to be running to stand in line for this voluntary work permit thingy.

    But offerring any kind of permit to those who have committed misdemeanors and felonies (with stolen ID) is nothing short of martial law.

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:04 p.m.

    Let's be clear: we are ALL children of God.

    That includes the roughly 1 BILLION people world wide who would like to come here if they could.

    It includes any number of persons worldwide who would love to kill every US Citizen and level every US city. It includes my own children and parents. Simply put, "children of God" is a meaningless platitude as it is now being tossed around. It is also an overtly religious belief that is not shared by everyone and so maybe its application to public policy and law should be every bit as limited as say religious beliefs about sexual morality, alcohol, or Sabbath observance.

    We ALL believe in humane treatment of our fellow men. Let's just not be too selective in only worrying about a few illegal aliens among us. How do we show love and compassion toward the millions of LAW ABIDING persons who want to immigrate but can't just illegally walk across our borders? What about showing love to our own citizens who need work, or own children who need a quality education? What about those victimized by ID theft of other crimes common among illegal aliens?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:12 p.m.

    Doesn't really matter anyway because this bill has ZERO chance of passing in Utah. I think the national media picked up on it to try and put pressure on the Utah legislature but this thing is headed for the dumpster. Every attempt at amnesty for illegals - whether an out right amnesty bill such as Harry Reids dream act or a smaller step such as Ms Robles bill - will fail espeically with the results of the Nov 2 elections nation wide. Many governors and state legislatures turned GOP so on Nov 2 so all these back door amnesty tricks are toast. Sorry libs.

  • wrz SLC, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:12 p.m.

    Robles' bill simply means amnesty. We don't want amnesty. We can't afford amnesty. Amnesty of any kind, including what Robles is proposing. We have 15 million unemployed Americans who are sucking up billions in unemployment benefits. Illegals are taking these jobs. They need to go home. We don't need them and can't afford them. And we can't afford the millions of illegals who will follow should they see that their illegal brothers and sisters can remain in this country.

    What we need is enforcement of immigration hiring. E-Verify, they call it. Americans need to get back in control of our country. We are not a country if we continue to be overrun with immigrants, illegal and otherwise.

    We need Sandstrom's bill. We don't need Robles' bill.

  • Schwa South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:29 p.m.

    I think my white ancestors didn't file the proper paperwork when they emigrated in the 1700s. I'll have to check with the Native Americans and see if they have any records.

  • Mr. Bean SLC, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:32 p.m.

    @skiutah:

    "As far as I can tell, who in their right mind would sign up for this."

    We need a bill that will require illegals to come forth and identify themselves... so we can have them arrested and deported.

    "Not the illegals I've run across."

    If you know of illegals you need to report them. Failure to do so is in violation of a federal Harboring of Illegals law.

  • Miss Piggie SLC, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    @wear2manyhatz

    "I am not in favor of amnesty, etc. I am in favor of getting to solutions that don't dehumanize illegal immigrants from ANYWHERE (illegals are not all brown)."

    Anything that allows illegals to stay in this country, for whatever reason, is AMNESTY. We don't want amnesty. Too many people are doing things right to come to this country for us to even consider allowing illegals to stay. It's an insult to those who are trying to do the right thing.

    -----

    @Brother Paul:

    "Respect is the Word: Red and Yellow, Black and Brown and White, They Are All Precious in His Sight!!"

    No, no. Respect for the laws of this land.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    Can we get a govt airline that will run back and forth across the globe and usher in Illegals from all parts of the world who want to live here?

    Why are we only opening our border to just Mexicans/Central/South Americans, like Robles?

  • wrz SLC, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2011 3:50 p.m.

    Clueless:

    "Would it make a difference if these 'illegals' were beautiful,blond haired,blue eyed danes,from lets say Denmark or Norway?"

    It would be nice to get someone other than Hispanics. They have a wonderful country with lots of resources including an abundance of the precious commodity, oil. If Danes, Norwegians, etc., had that kind of resource they would see no need to immigrate here. And if they did, they would likely do it the legal and proper way.

  • CJ Murray, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 4:07 p.m.

    Take a look at the postings here today and the support it is gaining AGAINST this ridiculous idea by a large margin. This couldn't pass in a million years and if it did it would be shot down instantly by a court. How can you set up a pass to break the law for one group of people? A group of people who already have no right to be here no less and who have already broken the law. This thing is a monument to stupidity.
    Ask millions of unemployed workers who actually have a right to be here if they think these job stealing criminal out to given a free pass. This is nothing short of completely outrageous. No one with any brains is going to get behind this, and any politician in Utah who supports it is done in the next election.

  • van Saratoga Springs, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 4:36 p.m.

    I hope the republicans will support this bill. Everytime a republican takes a real hard line stand on immigration he/she go's bye bye. Tom Tancrado, J.D Hayworth ect.

    Sen. Robles. Talked with you on the phone. Im a republican, and many other republicans I know supports your bill. You are becoming very popular across the country. Your bill is full of common sense.

    I hope this bill will pass. It will show a great example to the country that Utahns are practical, non extremists, and has commpassion for their fellow man.

    Utah can look like a hero and a leader, or an Arizona that is causing nothing but hate, discrimination and divide.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Jan. 6, 2011 4:49 p.m.

    The greatest tragedy of this bill would be seen abroad. Conditions abroad will not improve as long as those who want something better are encouraged/empowered to leave their countrymen to their fate instead of working to improve circumstances, reduce poverty, etc.

    If the focus is to help people improve their living conditions, I think a government-sanctioned brain-drain from foreign countries drastically misses the mark.

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    Jan. 6, 2011 4:58 p.m.

    In 1856 when my great great grandfather and his family came to the US and Utah, they showed up at US immigration in New York. Their names were taken down and they were sent on their way.

    They then walked into Utah with the Martin Handcart Company and were welcomed with open arms.

    Then there was my grandmother, who was born in Utah, moved to Canada in her early 20's. After about 70 years in Canada she was still an American Citizen and a registered Republican. Nobody gave her a bad time.

    We LDS of all people should be more than a little understanding of immigration.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Jan. 6, 2011 5:40 p.m.

    How can we not have the money for local enforcement for local immigration enforcement, but we do have enough to start an entirely new department and enforcement agency.

    Every child born here to the guest workers would be a birth right citizen, and further complicate the situation.

  • gramma b Orem, UT
    Jan. 7, 2011 8:30 a.m.

    How I wish the Deseret News would stop propagandizing for illegal aliens. One front page story after another. This bill is ridiculous. And Paul Mero, I love ya. But you're up in the night on this one.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Jan. 7, 2011 10:23 a.m.

    What nonsense. Sandstrom's proposal has a much greater chance of becoming a national model because the majority of Americans want the rule of law upheld and for illegals to be held accountable. Only a minority want illegals rewarded, as they would be with Robles' bill.

    Deseret Media, you're not winning the debate on this issue. Your behavior as self-appointed chief propogandist for the state only makes me want you to fail, along with all businesses that actively employ illegals. Breaking the law is wrong.

    And by the way, everyone should be cautious of anyone who claims they've cornered the market on Compassion.

  • MCFergy Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 7, 2011 11:22 a.m.

    @Erika - Salem, UT; you say, "I think Robles' bill is encouraging... sometimes a state has to show the feds how to do things." I agree with you 100%, however, not in regards to Senator Robles' bill, but to Arizona's 1070 and our own coming Utah/Sandstrom bill. Let the State and Local law enforcement help ICE enforce federal immigration law that has been virtually and literally ignored by the 'feds' for twenty-four years.

  • MCFergy Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 7, 2011 11:25 a.m.

    @Erika Salem, UT; you say, I think Robles bill is encouraging sometimes a state has to show the feds how to do things. I agree with you 100%, however, not in regards to Senator Robles bill, but to Arizonas 1070 and our own coming Utah/Sandstrom bill. Let the States help ICE enforce federal immigration law that has been virtually and literally ignored by the feds for twenty-four years.

  • Jazz Bass Man Wellsville, Utah
    Jan. 7, 2011 12:36 p.m.

    When is the liberal media machine going to finally get it, that the people just aren't buying this propaganda anymore?

    The overwhelming majority of us will never be convinced that amnesty is a "model" for America, and no matter how many times they try to push it through, we will never allow our lawmakers to give amnesty to these illegal border jumpers.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 7, 2011 1:16 p.m.

    The truth is in the debate over a Robles bill vs. a Sandstrom bill that the simple-minded jingoism of the Sandstrom group about "the law" is clearly less a legitimate concern than a symptom of a deeper angst stemming in part from a mindset of scarcity, typical of more closed and conservative societies. Lacking documentation in and of itself hardly qualifies as reasonable justification for the harsh, vindictive treatment of "illegals" advocated by those who in their fervor mistake the law for a club.

  • Janell Ventura, Ca
    Jan. 7, 2011 2:00 p.m.

    Ajax,

    So the truth (according to you), is that obeying the law is a symptom of a simple minded crowd of conservatives who from a closed society.
    Typical liberal response...if you can't win the argument, vilify your opponent.
    From where I sit, the truth is that there is a scarcity of jobs all over America and I want to see the law enforced so that American citizen's don't lose their houses, due to an influx of illegal aliens who drive down wages and take jobs.
    I wonder which one of our "truths" is a reality for Americans?
    Oh, and by the way, no one is advocating harsh or vindictive treatment of illegals. Sending them back to their homelands is simply undoing a wrong that the illegals themselves perpetrated.

  • Kenwa Mabuni Provo, UT
    Jan. 7, 2011 3:13 p.m.

    All the self righteous people here should concentrate on something more important. The Department of State is gonna make "gender neutral" passports removing father and mother from the application and instead put Parent 1 and Parent 2 to be sensitive to the feelings of "other kinds of families"...yeah right,,Look into things like this that really damage your country...immigrants do not

  • Dodger37 Syracuse, Utah
    Jan. 7, 2011 5:00 p.m.

    The only thing more ridiculous than Robles bill is the kid glove treatment and acceptance news sources such as the Deseret News are giving it. Why isnt it called a controversial immigration bill. It surely is just as controversial as the Sandstrom bill. It just happens to be controversial to a different set of people.
    How tone deaf can you be to the will of the citizens of this country and state? The United States Congress attempted to pass an amnesty bill, using the code word comprehensive back when Bush was president. It didnt work then and it wont work now. You should find a new code name we all know what comprehensive means to you.
    You want a comprehensive bill try this:
    Secure the boarder
    Make it a felony to hire an illegal
    Correctly interpret the 14th amendment
    Done

  • patriotandmore Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 8, 2011 6:28 a.m.

    Pro illegal alien politicians and the criminals themselves are all using the constitution like a piƱata. Smashing it to bits while hoping for some free goodies to fall out. Stop this madness and enforce the laws.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 8, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    To undertake legislation affecting thousands of families in the facile and cavalier fashion of the Sandstrom crowd would be a huge mistake, costly in the extreme and leading to a level of human abuse to our lasting discredit.

  • Lasvegaspam Henderson, NV
    Jan. 8, 2011 12:00 p.m.

    Clueless: Perhaps you are unaware that in Denmark today every attempt is being made to restrict immigration into that country. An enormous number of Muslims are attempting to move there and the Danes are attempting to limit them, most recently by passing a law raising their legal marriage age to 25 (Culturally, today, Danes dont marry at all or marry late, while culturally Muslims marry as young as teenagers). Making the laws of their nation undesirable to Muslims is a rather ingenious way to stop the onslaught, wouldnt you agree?

    Just a heads up for you, Clueless, that ALL groups seek to maintain their culture and their ways for the benefit of their future young, and rightly so; even the extremely liberal Danes who generally love and have welcomed all. When too much becomes too much, the welcome mat SHOULD be removed.

  • Janell Ventura, Ca
    Jan. 8, 2011 8:08 p.m.

    Ajax,

    To continue things as they are (allowing illegals to continue to come here, use our resources, take our jobs, etc...) is also costly in the extreme and leading to the detriment of the U.S. citizens that our politicians are supposed to protect.
    Tell me Ajax, who stands up for OUR citizens?

  • realitycheck247 Sylmar, CA
    Jan. 10, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    wow. all you conservatives ranting about "illegal is illegal" and the constitution, etc is just mindboggling.

    this lady's idea is actually a pretty good one. it's not like the undocumented workers aren't already here. might as well integrate them into society.

    and to all you naysayers - I say walk a mile in an undocumented worker's shoes. you are simply lucky. that's all. simple luck to have been born here instead of somewhere else.

    i see your attitude as the same as winning the lottery and keeping it all to yourself instead of helping others. it's the exact same thing.

    i feel bad for you. especially if you call yourselves christians. I'm not even religious but even I know that what you are saying is wrong...

  • hhh385 Green River, WY
    Jan. 10, 2011 4:41 p.m.

    At least someone is thinking of solutions and thinking out of the box, it is a start, thank-you Sen. Robles.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 12, 2011 8:47 p.m.

    This is a step in the right direction.

  • StopTheMadness Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 14, 2011 11:20 a.m.

    Consider the empty rhetoric that could be avoided in recognizing what we all should know by now, namely that 1) being in our country without documentation is not necessarily a felony, 2) undocumented Hispanic immigrants are not the cause of the downturn in our economy, nor of people losing their homes, nor of high unemployment 3) undocumented Hispanic immigrants pay taxes, and 4) undocumented Hispanic immigrants receive decidedly less rather than more of the benefits and advantages available to the rest of us.

    Yes, undocumented Hispanic immigrants make a convenient scapegoat for your problems and mine. But they are in all too many ways unjustly accused. Let's act responsibly in understanding that the real solution to our problems lies with us and not with them.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Jan. 16, 2011 1:40 a.m.

    We know it's illegal, and therefore a crime. We know that the Federal government is not doing it's job, costing local and state governments billions of dollars each year. We know something has to be done.

    We need self deportation laws that make it difficult for people to live here illegally, and for states to put the responsibility back on the Federal government by flooding the system with local arrests country wide.

    Guest worker programs are dependent on proving that citizens will not work the jobs available. Federal law states there has to be a need. Robles bill ignores this fact, and that is an insult to the 100,000 Utahns out of work.

  • C. Darwin Sandy, UT
    Jan. 18, 2011 4:32 a.m.

    Call it as it is: a minority politician representing an illegal minority group's interests angainst the will of the American people.