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House approves DREAM Act

Utah delegates vote no; undocumented students say bill gives them hope

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  • Andrew J. Marksen Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 12:08 a.m.

    This is another bad bill in a long line of bad bills. There should be opposition to this DREAM. While the Democrats and their progressive cronies are playing favorites with people who have broken the laws of the United States the hard working American citizens who are legal are getting pushed to the back of the bus. I can only assume it is because the Democrats need to create another generation addicted to the government handouts thus preserving their power. What is even more disgusting is the person the DesNews focused on is an illegal. It appears the DesNews has become Utah's sanctuary newspaper dedicated to touch our hearts with the sufferings of illegals who should not be here in the first place. If you want to be here then do it legally. You do not get to come into my home and dictate how I rum it because you are uncomfortable. The law needs to mean something. I wish the Democrats and the DesNews would get that.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Dec. 9, 2010 12:19 a.m.

    Search the Internet for S.729, the bill that comes up for a vote today in the senate. This bill is amnesty for over half the people illegally here.

    Anyone 16-35 can apply, and all children age 12-18 that are attending a primary or secondary school cannot be deported. That means all families who have a 12-18 year old child just received amnesty, as their children can't be deported.

    A disgraceful act by the Democrats, they are no longer the party I supported for years.

  • dueling banjos salt lake city, ut
    Dec. 9, 2010 12:45 a.m.

    oh come on make em all legal citizens, you never said a thing when you bought that tyson chicken or built those nice houses in Spanish Fork canyon. alot of these people were invited by the greedy in the beginning which brings up a similar pt of how the pioneers who are going to be flooding Missouri someday will be recieved. We can't bus them all back and our borders are far from secure so the dilema was started by the greedy to begin with.

  • Northern Logan, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 12:52 a.m.

    But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, "

    Its funny the whatever the government names a bill turns out to be the exact opposite effect.

    The federal reserve act. It is not federal nor is it a reserve.

    The Patriot Act- is very much as unpariotic as it comes.

    The Health care bill - is so unhealthy is should be the Black Plague bill.

    The dream act is more like - the dream is over act. Yea for more deficit spending.

    Inch by inch we always move in the wrong direction.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 1:34 a.m.

    This bill is open ended, it's not a one time deal.

    It's a billboard to the rest of the world that America is open to illegal immigrants. You can come here and get a college education for your child. Then they can sponsor you.

    It's a shame we are paying off those on unemployment to be silent.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 3:06 a.m.

    I have hope that our senate will reject this attempt at amnesty for millions age 12-35 and the under age children's parents. It's gone way beyond it's original intent, and would stop most immigration deportations in this country for many years.

    It has so many holes in it, that courts will be filled with cases.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 5:21 a.m.

    Here are some costs I found. The bill is expected to have 1-2 million people sign up for it. With 1.5 million, the estimated costs are 6.5 billion per year for schooling ($6,000 per student federal subsidies).

    The cost of processing, administration and running back ground checks will cost minimum $2,000 per student ($2 billion). (students can be arrested three times and spend no more than 90 days in jail).

    After 10 years, the congressional budget office estimate that their increased productivity will give the economy $2.3 billion. However at the same time, they would be eligible for food stamps, medicaid and welfare at a cost of $5-20 billion dollars (Congressional budget office).

    The congressional budget office expects more than half to drop out, but they still will be able to stay in the country and work for those 10 years.

    That's a cost of 8.5 billion the first year, and 6.5 billion each year after, plus the cost of new applications. In return we lose 2.7 - 17.7 billion after 10 years (per year)

  • Pete in Texas Copperas Cove, TX
    Dec. 9, 2010 6:12 a.m.

    Andrew,

    I appreciate your comment and I've wondered the same thing exactly. (I wonder if this comment will get printed for the exact same reason.) DesNews has become a support group in the way they portray the stories about illegal immigration problems. I can't remember the last story I've read where it's portrayed the illegal as just that.... illegal. The stories they print about other criminals don't seem to have the "forgiving" overtone that the stories about the illegals seem to resonate. Why not interview an individual like you and me about the passage of the Dream Act? I guarantee our perspectives about how this passage will affect OUR lives is totally different than how this story was. I'm not looking forward to passage of ANY bill that supports amnesty in any sense. These illegals don't bring more money into the economy. They steal it from the LEGAL families who would help the economy just as much if their wages could be rasied by not having to compete with the illegals wages.

    I applaud all the Utah representatives for not supporting it.

  • Ron Arnason Bandon, Oregon
    Dec. 9, 2010 6:29 a.m.

    Do not need this type of one sided "news."
    It is either legal or illegal.
    Color me cancelled.

  • John Stewart Pill Vienna, VA
    Dec. 9, 2010 6:56 a.m.

    Legal or illegal, considering our lazy youth, these "Dreamers" might be the best hope our country has. Just look at this quote from Thomas Friedman:

    "If you want to know whos doing the parenting part right, start with immigrants, who know that learning is the way up. Last week, the 32 winners of Rhodes Scholarships for 2011 were announced Americas top college grads. Here are half the names on that list: Mark Jia, Aakash Shah, Zujaja Tauqeer, Tracy Yang, William Zeng, Daniel Lage, Ye Jin Kang, Baltazar Zavala, Esther Uduehi, Prerna Nadathur, Priya Sury, Anna Alekeyeva, Fatima Sabar, Renugan Raidoo, Jennifer Lai, Varun Sivaram."

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Dec. 9, 2010 7:09 a.m.

    This legislation is a sham. I'm disapointed that this paper would carry another liberal sob story. Here's the facts: they don't have to graduate, most will be going to school on the tax payer's dime, but worse, this will bring about a flood of illegals. Once in place, illegals from all over the world will enter our borders, attend college at least on paper, and then they will be able to be citizens in a short time and of course, vote Democrat. The latter is the real purpose of this measure.

  • Happy Dad Sandy, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 7:15 a.m.

    I grew up in the inner city of Ogden. The house we lived in didn't even have a bedroom. We were poor and we struggled for years. My mother (single at the time) had to sue UTA to become the first lady bus driver in Ogden because they wouldn't hire a woman. Funny thing is; I have always been looked at as the fortunate "white" boy with opportunities. It hasn't been a "DREAM" for me but I have fought for everything I have today.

    This propaganda is just a political demonstration. Perfect timing for the Bush tax cut talks.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 7:23 a.m.

    This is a sad situation, but the blame is on the parents who brought these kids here illegally. These kids should have a lot of anger toward their parents.

    As sad as it is, it is NOT the responsibility of the American people to make right the wrong that has been done by their parents.

    It's all very sad and I could probably go along on the basis of military service. But, just going to college should NOT qualify someone for American citizenship...especially if it makes it possible for these people to sponsor relatives who have also come illegally.

    I think it will probably go down in the Senate. There's no end to the havoc these Democrats can wreak when you give them the chance.

  • BoomerJeff Saint George, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 7:26 a.m.

    This is a bad bill that will give amnesty to most illegals that are here now. Once they get amnesty they will start pressing for family reunification. Each hispanic immigrant brings on average 5 people from their home country once they are legalized. (based on the past amnesty program in 1986 and current immigration trends). Within 10 years we will have over 100 million new immigrants to this country. America as you knew it will be no longer. Where are we going to get the water and energy needs for 100 million more people???

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 7:37 a.m.

    The lame ducks have struck again.
    They suffer from short-term memory loss.
    The midterm elections were about changing direction and listening to the voters.
    DREAM has lost its public support yet they are full speed ahead with a bill that has failed multiple times in the past.
    Sort of reminds you of Obamacare, doesn't it?

  • John Stewart Pill Vienna, VA
    Dec. 9, 2010 7:52 a.m.

    Some of these comments are ridiculous. They talk about what the "law" is, and what is "legal" and "illegal." In case you haven't noticed, Americans make their own laws. And we're trying to decide what laws to make regarding immigration. The debate isn't about what the law currently IS or ISN'T, it's about what the law SHOULD be. No one is saying these people are legal. What we're doing is trying to decide what to do with them. If I see another comment saying "The law is "x" therefore there should be no debate," I'm going to throw my monitor out the window.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 7:57 a.m.

    You reported the Federal deficit reduction through increased earnings of $2.2 billion over the next 10 years. Senate's version $1.4 billion.

    But you left off the true cost in the same study.
    A 5-20 billion dollar hit to food stamps, welfare, and medicaid.

    I would like to see reporting, not editorializing through omission. The fact that it's true cost is a boost to the deficit is relevant.

  • Chickenchaser Centralia, WA
    Dec. 9, 2010 8:08 a.m.

    Lame ducks seeking padding for the next election. As some wrote, there is no vision and the duck is really lame. The British Isles, specifically England then France and Germany are convulsing and hemmoraging because of this economic boondoggle.

    See what happens when Americans try this in Persia or Mexico.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 8:16 a.m.

    Amnesty by any name smells just as bad. I could maybe see it for veterans, but not for students and definitely not for their families.

    John Stewart Pill
    how many of those names you list belong to ILLEGAL immigrants? How many of those names you list even belong to immigrants as opposed to the children, grandchildren, or great-grandchildren of immigrants? And unfortunately, while the vast majority of the illegal immigrants in this country are hispanic, none of those names appear hispanic. While I applaud the hispanic culture for its work ethic, graduation rates among hispanics would seem to indicate education is not as highly regarded within that culture.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 8:34 a.m.

    @ John Stewart Pill, no matter how you like it, or how many pieces your monitor is in, the law is the law. You can't get around it. They came for the jobs, the jobs are gone, it's time to go home. It happens all the time in the business world. They should be happy they had the opportunity to come here and boost their earnings greatly.

    Now it's time to follow America's wishes. In a poll that asked if we wanted forced deportation, or self deportation or amnesty, amnesty was last, then forced deportation, the choice by far was self deportation like the Arizona law would accomplish.

    I don't see American workers asking for a hand out because someone came here and drove down their wages illegally.

  • Teafortwo salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 9, 2010 8:42 a.m.

    The DREAM Act is a nightmare. It is treason. It is amnesty. There is no reason to provide a path to citizenship for illegals who have chosen to bypass the existing, legal path. Taxpayers will now be forced (even more than they already are) to subsidize criminals with their tax dollars. Furthermore, it will just encourage more illegal immigration as more people learn that they will be rewarded for coming here illegally and breaking our laws. Rewarding criminals for criminal acts is insane.

  • CWEB Orem, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 8:42 a.m.

    1. Amnesty is forgiving someone of wrong-doing... THESE kids did nothing wrong--therefore, it is NOT amnesty--it is mercy toward those who have no way to correct their situation, they are being used for politics! This should bother any Christian, shame on the Utah Delegates!

    2. You all base your opinion on immigration on FEAR. Your fears should not dictate action to help your fellow man...especially these children.

    3. Your actions are like passing by the beaten man and not helping...so much for the Good Samaritan--the Lord must think, "why did I even bother to give them my parables and say love one another, etc, etc, etc.? It only fell on deaf ears."

    4. Your fear shows that you think YOU earned your blessings and wealth, that it DID NOT come from God, and that you feel your freedom it a right, not a gift.

    5. I am now ashamed of my fellow Utahns, Christians and those who propose to be Christian, for the very thought is a lie--shown by your actions and opinions.

    6. Adult immigrants have a way to fix their immigration, kids do not.

    7. Hatch has not a principle!

  • LDS Mom American Fork, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 8:53 a.m.

    "House approves DREAM Act"
    Shame on them.

  • Teafortwo salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 9, 2010 8:54 a.m.

    John Stewart Pill @ 6:56- Please. You cannot expect people to take your argument seriously when it is based upon a quote from an extremist like Thomas Friedman.
    Secondly, I would be willing to bet that most of those students listed were either legal residents or native born Americans. And I'll bet none of them came from Mexico or points south. And lastly, who cares? The Rhodes Scholarships have become as meaningless as Nobel Prizes and the Academy Awards. They are far more about promoting politcally correct, left-wing ideas and propaganda than about true excellence.

  • Poqui Murray, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 9:02 a.m.

    The fact is that we have a large population of disenfranchised people in the United States that aside from being born abroad know no other culture than the one they were raised in. To deny them the opportunity to continue to flourish in their adopted country is selfish and cruel. This bill is not perfect but it's an attempt to address a very real problem in our country that cannot be solved by simplistic phrases spouted by angry voters.

  • John Stewart Pill Vienna, VA
    Dec. 9, 2010 9:12 a.m.

    RE: SLars

    Exactly.

  • We the People Sandy, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 9:22 a.m.

    Epic fail. This bill will fail in the Senate and once the Dems lose control of the House in December, this dream will be laid to rest. Finally.

    I am so happy that the Demos think that giving amnesty to lawbreakers is more important than supporting our economy, stopping the largest tax increase in American history, and solving other truly important issues. Do they not know why they lost so badly?

  • Oregonian Sherwood, OR
    Dec. 9, 2010 9:24 a.m.

    Let's see here...the Democrats just got hammered in an election so what it their solution? Make all "undocumented Democrats" legal to vote. More people on the dole to keep the Demos in power.

  • Teafortwo salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 9, 2010 9:32 a.m.

    CWEB- The DREAM Act applies to people up to the age of 35. Kids? Get real. Furthermore, the parents who brought the kids will be allowed to stay. The DREAM Act is just another act of amnesty for criminals that will inevitably lead to more illegal aliens coming to this country, and, inevitably, another amnesty for them.

  • Hotrod Sandy, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 9:45 a.m.

    It is not "undocumented worker" its Illegal Alien! Please realize the only ones who like this are the ones who are illegal, namly the one outside ESA last night.

  • gcp52 Lehi, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 9:59 a.m.

    The real question is, do we want the illegal immigrants here illegally, or do we want them to participate in the military, go to school, and train them selves to better our society. The truth is that illegal immigrants are not going anywhere. We might as well give them the opportunity for education, give them an incentive to join the military (which needs more recruits), and then atleast they will have a positive impact on society

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 10:03 a.m.

    Please keep in mind that nearly 40% of our college education is subsidized by the state through our state taxes. The tuition and fees we pay only cover about a third of the expenses. Therefore, there are different rates for international students.

    So we have the Federal Government trying to mandate the states to subsidize the education of undocumented=illegal immigrants. This is such an inherent contradiction to what the Feds tell us about states identifying illegal immigrants!

  • Jazz Bass Man Wellsville, Utah
    Dec. 9, 2010 10:04 a.m.

    This is just another attempt at the Obama administration to further destroy our country and our economy, which was started by GW Bush. What kind of insane government would promote the invasion by a foreign country with millions of poor and/or criminal element into this country? I guess the only answer to that would be that our "elected leaders" just want to reshape us into submissive 3rd class citizens who are just as poor as the mexicans that are flooding into this country unchecked.

    Shame on any congressman or senator who supports this amnesty in disguise. And shame on the deseret news for their obvious liberal bias on every story regarding illegal immigration.

  • Dan Bishop Lehi, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 10:17 a.m.

    The government only cares about staying in power and Latino votes ensure that Democrates stay. I am still trying to finish college and get no help from the system, because I work. The citizens of this country are getting the shaft by those in power. I believe in compassion, but this is not the solution. Citizenship first,including renouncing Mexican citizenship, then resident tuition.

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 10:18 a.m.

    There are very sophisticated networks, right here among our Utah immigrant population, that continue to smuggle more and more illegal immigrants into our state. Why do they continue to come? Because the illegal immigrants that are here are sending messages back describing how easy it is to get here and how much support they get once they get here.

    We have revolutionized our education and healthcare systems here in Utah to accommodate this influx.

    We seem to agree that we must stop future illegal immigration. To do this, we must BREAK these networks. Passing this DREAM act FEEDS these networks, and exacerbates the problem.

  • timpClimber Provo, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 10:42 a.m.

    Another end run by liberal bleeding hearts who never think with their head but their gut. When the kids are legal they can apply to make their parents legal. This act will become a magnet to every teen south of the border. The Dems just don't think about the consequences. And you think the illegal teens here are assimilated into the american culture? As a former HS teacher for 18 years of these teens you are wrong, most of then have not and will not assimilate.

  • American Spartan Taylorsville, Utah
    Dec. 9, 2010 11:19 a.m.

    How pathetic these "Dream Team" flash mob people are, with their puppy eyes asking for sympathy.

    If I see them while I ride the bicycle in downtown SLC, with them holding signs screaming for passage of Dream Act, I will be sure to give them thumbs down sign and shout "Boo! Boo!" to provoke these selfish anti-American fools.

    President Reagan made a stupid error in signing that amnesty bill into law in 1986, which only compounded the illegal immigration crisis, with more illegals jumping the border to demand amnesty or else.

    Illegals and their "legal resident for chain migration" conspirators are what they are: selfish parasites, demanding amnesty repeatedly.

    If Dream Act amnesty is granted, then we can expect more illegals to come in hordes. The passage of Dream Act will only erode the stability of the Republic to the point of collapse and dissolution. Look at California. It will be "gone" by 2016 (5 years from now) as I predict. California was prosperous with rule of law enforced just 5 decades ago, and now it is on its way to collapse courtesy of unmitigated liberalism (communism).

  • Adver Taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 11:33 a.m.

    This is disgusting!

  • CWEB Orem, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 11:54 a.m.

    Paying tithing also makes NO logical sense.

    One must realize that our nation and state is blessed from God, and as we are kind to others and keep his commandments, we will be blessed...

    even if it is not logical.

    These are HIS children. They need HELP. Turn you back on the "least of these" and you turn your back on the Lord.

    "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

    Feed the stranger, clothe the naked, care for the sick--unless it is NOT convenient.

    Illegal immigrants are the people the Lord was talking about--are they not?

    Maybe it makes no sense to you, but based on "faith" it makes complete sense to help these people who have nothing--while we have everything!

  • Miss Piggie SLC, Utah
    Dec. 9, 2010 1:22 p.m.

    @Poqui: "The fact is that we have a large population of disenfranchised people in the United States that aside from being born abroad know no other culture than the one they were raised in."

    That doesn't mean that they should be handed goodies such as are contained in the Dream Act. Let them make beds in hotels and pick fruit, jobs that Americans refuse to take. They don't need to go to college to do those jobs.

    And for sure no amnesty. What amnesty does is encourage more illegals to come here for the same treatment. Something we don't need. We already have 15 million unemployed and more like 20 million if you count underemployed... all of whom we need to get employed until any illegals get work here.

    Just think, if we could remove the 15 to 20 million illegals in this country taking Americans' jobs and let Americans move into those jobs our economic problems would be begin to rapidly recover. But no. Our leaders in the government would rather have our economy struggle for years to come rather than do anything about illegals occupying our country and sucking up our jobs.

  • Littlebit Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 1:50 p.m.

    A "dream" for the illegals, a nightmare for the rest of us. The libs won't be happy until the U.S. is just like all the other 3rd world countries. I grew up 40 miles from Juarez, Mexico, and places in Utah are beginning to look more like Juarez all the time.

  • WinSum Rexburg, ID
    Dec. 9, 2010 2:09 p.m.

    The Dems still don't get it. We are broke. You can't continue to try and buy votes with a credit-card. Where do these people (term loosley used) think the money comes from...?

    Tax & spend. Tax & spend. Tax & spend......

  • Pete in Texas Copperas Cove, TX
    Dec. 9, 2010 3:40 p.m.

    Please! No more "these are God's children as well". With that kind of thinking, why should we punish ANYONE who commits a crime? After all, we're all God's children..... sheesh.

    Secondly, to those who would say, "It's better to educate them to help them become better citizens because let's face the facts.... they're not leaving", I'd say..... wake up and realize what they really want.

    I work in construction...... the illegals that are on my jobsite don't WANT to become Americans. They don't WANT to be citizens. All they want is our money. End of story. Let me say that again.... all they want is our money! Try, for one minute, to wrap your minds around that.

    They don't care one iota about our economy. They don't care one iota about you and me. They only care for themselves. That's why they come here illegally. Please don't treat them like they're your 3 year old child who doesn't know any better. They know how to work the system. They're doing it. We're allowing it and I'm tired of paying for it.

  • Anonymous Infinity American Fork, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 3:58 p.m.

    Dream Act my foot. It is a nighmare act. This is a democrat party ploy to attract more voters. Why don't we get some of these TSA people down on the border, as in shoulder to shoulder and pat down and get paperwork on these lawbreakers coming across our borders? These people are not immigrants at all. What is wrong with the media and the other bleeding hearts calling these people undocumented immigrants. Hogwash.

  • Anonymous Infinity American Fork, UT
    Dec. 9, 2010 4:01 p.m.

    CWEB. You are wrong on so many levels I can't even begin to enumerate them. Why don't you try crossing the Iranian border and see how far you get?

  • michaelm Waukesha, WI
    Dec. 9, 2010 4:36 p.m.

    I could support this if it meant in-state rates and mostly free education for white Americans too. But it will not because they may not always vote Democrat.

    I could support it if they are required to learn english, have extensive American history and social studies requirements, and be required to study the Constitution and take an oath to uphold it. But it does not require any of this.

    I would support it if included paid but mandatory public and or military service. You come to love those you serve, they should serve our nation before we give them all the goodies.

    I would also consider 2 years of public service for every 4 years of education we provide them. It would be fair and they would be paid during the service that may lead to life long jobs.

    Every illegal who gets free education should be matched by a legal citizen getting free education too.

    And lastly, they need to pay hefty fines and be on probation for entering and staying illegally in our country, screw up and break other laws and your gone. But it does not do that either, this is a VERY BAD BILL.

  • Teafortwo salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 9, 2010 4:42 p.m.

    The DREAM Act is just one more piece of astonishingly bad legislation that rewards criminal wrongdoing while at the same time punishing those who do the right things.

  • Christy Beaverton, OR
    Dec. 12, 2010 1:16 p.m.

    From Andrew: "While the Democrats and their progressive cronies are playing favorites with people who have broken the laws of the United States the hard working American citizens who are legal are getting pushed to the back of the bus. I can only assume it is because the Democrats need to create another generation addicted to the government handouts thus preserving their power."

    From Teafortwo: "The DREAM Act is a nightmare. It is treason. It is amnesty. There is no reason to provide a path to citizenship for illegals who have chosen to bypass the existing, legal path. Taxpayers will now be forced (even more than they already are) to subsidize criminals with their tax dollars. Furthermore, it will just encourage more illegal immigration as more people learn that they will be rewarded for coming here illegally and breaking our laws. Rewarding criminals for criminal acts is insane."

    =================

    Children, who were brought here by their parents, are not 'criminals'. Citizenship for these children (not their parents) in exchange 2 years of military service OR 2 years of college -- which they have to pay for as any other student would -- is the sensible, compassionate thing to do.

  • Andersonsue Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 12, 2010 5:25 p.m.

    You know that it is going to pass. It is funny, but Anne Coulter, a new Catholic, is against this DREAM act but the Catholic church prays for immigration in the rosary. The LDS faith is for immigration because of the immigrant converts to the faith. It is only the Jews in Israel who are against immigration (and wisely so) but the U.S. will force Israel because we give Israel so much money.

  • A Guy With A Brain Enid, OK
    Dec. 13, 2010 6:35 p.m.

    Why does Utah offer LOWER in-state tuition levels to ILLEGAL aliens when LEGAL American residents are forced to pay HIGHER fees?

    Where is the justice in that?

    And, please, don't give me any sob stories about it's not their fault. I'm not asking if it's their fault they were brought here by law-breaking parents, I'm asking where is the "justice".