Read the Constitution. Where does it say the federal government should handle
immigration. It only handle naturalization, a separate issue.
I have read the compact and the thing that concerns me, is there is nothing in
it requiring immigrants to obey the law, learn English, teach their children not
to write on the walls, attain citizenship, or give up their old citizenship.
Coming here implies citizenship and with it comes responsibility. Americans
aren't against immigration but they are against bad behavior.
If the federal government would be doing anything, would there BE pressure at
the state level to do something? Seriously, becuase of this, Mayor Becker does
NOT have my support next election. I refuse to vote for a mayor that can't use
What happened to common sense in all of this? I can see both sides of this
argument, but if we don't control our borders this situation will harm more
people on both sides of this issue. I believe that is why we can't solve it
now. there is no statesman ship nor common sense in politics or law.
They should take the legal approach. Please enforce the current laws that are
in place AND secure the borders...fat chance.
3arwax - You are right there are two documents1. The Constitution2.
The compactOne upholds the rule of law the other does not.
If you read the statement, it's not really about that anyway. It's about being
compassionate and rational when making decisions about people who are living and
working in our community.
Even the most ardent supporters of eliminating illegal immigration, such as FAIR
and NumbersUSA, do NOT support mass deportation. They support gradual reduction
of illegal immigrants by laws that encourage those in the USA illegally to
return home. Also, they also support strengthening the border.We
should hope and pray for better political and economic conditions in 3rd world
nations, especially Mexico. We should also realize the facts with
immigration, and that immigration should never be used as a worldwide poverty
reduction plan, as there are billions in poverty which is well beyond the
capability of the USA to fix this problem by mass importation of people.
WOW, sounds like common sense. Can't have that. Imagine treating them like
human beings. The right wing must be going nuts. After all aren't they all
rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and responsible for a crime wave. We must
have a law enforcement only approach. No room for compassion in this LDS
HERE, here. Finally a rational attitude about immigration reform. Maybe the
rest of the nation will listen, too. There has to be a better way- something
between throwing open the gates and throwing them all out- thank heaven someone
is looking for it.Too bad they didn't listen to the health care
debate in Utah before they pushed that through.
I am so happy that LDS Church leaders have joined other church and community
leaders in signing this compact. It reflects our society's conscience, customs
and standards. And it reflects the Gospel.We veterans served a
country that welcomes the downtrodden and those who come here to work and serve
their new country as well. Amen to the compact's statement: Utah
should focus its resources on "criminal activities, not civil violations of
We need to remove and not create any rewards and incentives for immigrants to
come here and be here illegally.Immigrants that are here illegally
should not have the ability to become United States Citizens prior to those
outside the U.S. applying to come legally.We do need to treat all,
even those breaking our laws, as human beings. There should be incentives for
those that are already here illegally to register with the U.S. Government for a
short term work visa if done in conjunction with a sponsoring legal business.
Those short term work visas should not be a step toward citizenship.Citizenship, if desired and qualified for, must be applied for with the
application from their country of origin, (unless qualifying for asylum) and
behind those that have been waiting legally there.
Well, so much for my United Way Donations. I have cancelled next years
deductions and WILL NOT participate in their sub for santa this Christmas.
If you lived in Mexico and your family was starving and you knew you could get a
job at the Orange Julius in a Mall in Utah that paid you as much in a day that
you could earn in a week back home you would come too. Man! Come to think
of it. I could really use an Orange Julius. Anyone know if those are around
anymore?I am guessing as word get's around about this charter a bunch of
illegals from AZ are going to flock up here. If they do, I hope they open
a few more restaurants in Bountiful. I can't get a decent taco in that town!
Who's with me?
The reason why the states are doing something is because the ferderal gov't
won't do their jobs period!If you are illegal you don't belong here and you
gotta go,no more freebies from us hard working Americans.We are tired of
supporting your criminal ways.If you want to come here you do it the right way
or not at all!Also re-write the 14th ammendment to exclude anchor babies! If you
are illegal your child shouldn't be granted citizenship.
Where is the compassion for the American citizen who have had their identity
stolen, their employment stolen by illegals from the community leaders and
business owners, and taxes used by cash payed illegals to use the infrastructure
of our community. Compassion goes both ways. The illegals made the choice to
come to America, now they whine that we have not given them enough. Many of
them have left family (elderly and disabled)back in their own home country to
survive with little help. I'm tired of reading about one sided compassion. As a
parent, I learned through experience that sometimes compassion involves tough
love with consequences.
ALL illegal aliens that are here are breaking our laws - PERIOD. Why is that so
hard to understand?These radical lefist groups (sutherland
institute, LA RAZA, etc) and the liberal politicians like Becker, Shurtleff and
Burbank all want to absolve themselves from having to deal with this invasion,
but the people have spoken very loud and clear that we have had enough of this
blatant refusal by teh federal and local governments to enforce the law. We the people are rising up against this deliberate attempt by our
"representatives" who want to turn our country into mexico, and we
WILL vote you out. Count on it.
It's LDS Church leaders that strongly urge "moderate" (that's a
liberal term by the way), approach to illegal immigration reform, not all Church
Member's and American Citizen's. I refuse too participate with that thinking.
Utah must obey all the written law's of the land and "NEVER" ever
adopt a phony illegal humane approach to this reality, reflecting on their
culture, history and spirit of inclusion. Right now Utah don't respect the rule
of law and support law enforcement's professional judgment and discretion. They
try to turn "federal code's" into minor State civil violations stuffed
into Bill's in Congress along with earmarks and pork. while they oppose policies
that unnecessarily separate families and deport the parent's, when they have the
right to take their "welfare kid's" along with them. Utah don't really
acknowledge the non-economic role illegal immigrants play while real American
workers and taxpayers pay for while they are here. That's my view, like it or
not. And I'm a Mormon also. Plus a true conservative that does not hide the
truth's.Happy Veteran's Day.
The legal citizens of this state overwhelmingly support an Arizona type law and
the enforcement of the laws. Our "elected representatives" would do
well to remember that.
The document has the same weight and importance as the State declaring "Be
nice to your Fine Feathered Friends Week." Any smart person knows you
can't spit into the wind nor draw on the Lone Ranger and you can't solve a
problem with a be nice policy. Unless you are willing to enforce the law and
put "heart" into it--there will continue to be Federal Law Violators
painting graffiti, posting the flag upside down, taking jobs with phony IDs, not
paying income tax, and getting free education and health care.
OK legislature and community leaders, the ball is in your court. You've stood
up, now deliver. Do something, anything. The fact that you are compassionate,
concerned and engaged has been established and it's commendable. I
call, let's see your cards.
Finally some sensible and informed talk on immigration by our community leaders.
Thank heavens for the wisdom of Utah's no longer silent majority.Hopefully the legislature will man-up and respect the will of the people.
Willful ignorance is the bane of society.
Hey Dan Bishop,No one forced my parents when they arrived from Poland and
the Austrian empire to "learn English, teach their children not to write on
the walls, attain citizenship, or give up their old citizenship." In the
land of opportunity, it just happens. If they had wanted compulsion, they would
have stayed in the old country. There the Government decided whether you dug
ditches, learned a trade, or got to go to a university. God Bless America!
Rep. Sandstrom and others in the legislature that oppose illegal immigration,
beware the long knives are now out. We see cheap labor groups such as the SL
Chamber of Commerce, the Sutherland Institute, Ivory Homes and more wanting to
continue to flood the labor market with cheap taxpayer subsidized foreign labor.
We also see the Churches that want grow their congregations. Now we
are worried about families being broken up? What about the poor families of
citizens that are broken up when a family member is sent to jail or prison for
such things as fraud, theft, and other non-violent crimes?Look at
the list of those supporting illegal immigration, and you will see that most of
them are more of an interest in cheap labor, and politics than compassion. Since the native birthrate leveled off at 2.1 per female in the late 70s
many see legal and illegal immigration as a method of growing the population. We
all seem to want more church members, more homes, larger state and city
population and so on. Where does this end? Perhaps half a billion U.S.
population by mid century? What will that look like?
Wow. So all these people got together to write and sign the Utah Compact, which
does absolutely nothing. How do these people get anything accomplished in their
day jobs? Still, they offer no alternatives. They just don't want to bite the
hands that feed them.
Kudos to all involved in the Utah Compact. It is a well-written, reasonable
statement that takes into account the Constitution as well as compassion. For those of you that continue to have a witch-hunt mentality when it
comes to immigrants, I strongly encourage you to calm down and look at the
motivations behind your anti-immigration diatribes. Or at the very least, take
some time to actually learn about actual US immigration laws before coming onto
this board and ranting.
Let's rip this "fluff" up and get down to business. I don't care how
compassionate we need to "appear" as we do it, but it is time to get
illegals out of our state. I am so sick and tired of these minority groups
getting together to get their names in the paper. The huge majority
of Utahns want Senator Sandtrom's bill passed yesterday. Let's put it to a state
vote if you are really wanting to do what the people want. I would predict
75%-80% would vote to pass the immigration (get out of Utah) bill.I
am a Mormon, and I am going to take a closer look at my church's stance on this.
Because if they are taking the stance that illegals should have amnesty in any
way, shape, or form.... I am going to contact my church leaders. It is time to
uphold the laws that are already in place.
When theyre willing to come here legally (not by amnesty), live by the laws of
the land, speak English, assimilate themselves into OUR culture, willing to
become an American citizen and pledge allegiance to no other foreign country or
government. Im for it! Otherwise, cut all the crap and send them back so
they CAN be with their families!
This is not about human rights it is about cheap labor and church membership by
the framers of the compactThe Federal Government can not or will not
address this issue so the State Government must.First - the state must
enact and enforce - no non citizen is entitled to free social services, such as
welfare, education, medical care, etc. in the Utah period.Second - If you
are an illegal and you have a baby in the U.S. they are not a citizen until you
are.Third - make it illegal to have other than English on all government
forms, Home Depot signs, etc. no more two language system everywhere. If you do
not speak English, learn it or stuggle. Mexico dose not provide me a double
language when I am down there.Fourth - if you fly your country's flag,
disrespect the US Flag or any other aspect of being a US citizen you are
deported along with your family.If you are coming here to better yourself
and your family - do it, but not at the expense of tax paying citizens.Larry
speak english - usa, the LDS churches comments are on the KSL article. To read
it, you have to click on the connector web site toward the end of the article.
It would be helpful if it was included on this website.
What a sad state of affairs! Let's make this simple and honest:1.
Those immigrating here pursuant to current US laws are welcome to particpate in
the American dream of self-sufficiency and abiding in the laws fo the land.2. Those here illegally, continually voilate our laws, especialy criminal
statutes by using stolen or forged identities.3. Those here illegally
take jobs from lawful US citizens.4. Those here illegally are a burden to
honest tax paying citizens.Why has this been allowed to happen? The
US Government has failed to enfore the law. The law isn't borken, it's just not
enforced.We can never have a land that relies on the rule of law
unless the laws are respected and enforced."We acknowledge that
every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its borders. All
persons subject to a nation's laws are accountable for their acts in relation to
I must admit that the "dark side" of me enjoys seeing these articles
in the DN on immigration because without fail it exposes the meanness and anger
of the radical right-wing - you people just cannot help yourselves - and the
comments provide both a reminder that we still have a long way to go in this
country and some form of twisted comic relief. In a more serious vein, kudos to
the LDS Church and others for taking a balanced, and compassionate position on
I think so many people are skeptical of this Utah Compact because of several of
its supporters:Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce, the Sutherland
Institute, Ivory Homes.What do they want? Cheap labor.
Americans can see the self-serving cheap labor lobby easily. These
organizations practically have neon lights on their name.
Federal law determines who should stay or go. But there is nothing wrong with
state and local law enforcement officers supporting federal courts in
apprehension. They do it all the time when they find interstate drug traffic
traveling Utah freeways.Just for the record, there is no such thing
as a civil infraction of the illegal entry statute. The first infraction is a
criminal misdemeanor punishable by 6 months in jail or a year in prison for a
subsequent infraction. I can also bring suit for civil damages in addition to
the criminal penalties and after the prison time he can be deported. If it is a
second offense he can also be permanently barred from entry into the country.
Does that sound like a minor issue? While it is true that citizen
children cannot be deported, parents are not permitted to abandon their children
either. At least two options are available: take them with you and we will foot
the bill, or if you can arrange it before you are deported they must be
permanently adopted by citizens, not just given up for adoption.
Yes, I believe we need to be compassionate.Please give the illegals
a helping hand into the bus back to Mexico.
So, the question is, will the will of the supporters of the Compact be able to
overcome the will of the majority of Utahns? Should businesses be able to import
labor to the detriment of US citizens? Does the welfare of the business
supersede that of US citizens? As long as our taxes are going to support
unemployed US citizens, we should be supporting policies that put them to work,
rather than policies that make the biggest profit for a business. I suppose we
should be compassionate, but we should be compassionate and fair to everyone,
but mainly to US citizens.
The Compact expresses noble sentiments that most reasonable people can agree
with. Few of us have any problems with immigrants who came here looking for work
and a better life for their families -- legally or otherwise.However, we should have ZERO TOLLERANCE for ANY criminal activity on their
part. Criminals who are not citizens should be returned to their home country
(whether or not they have family here); or their consulate should be billed for
their care and feeding as long as they are in our prison system; or the FedGov
should pay the expenses.Of course, expecting the FedGov to do
anything positive or responsible is a fantasy.
Hey TMR, I noticed you are from California. Don't even get me started on how
ILLEGAL immigration has affected your state. Beyond repair....I
don't get the whole "civil" argument. Why am I racist according to
Latinos, and part of the "dark side" being called a radical
"right wing" when all I want is for the current laws in place to be
enforced?When did it become cool in America to challenge every
single thing that is wrong, to justify it being right? Exercising your first
amendment privilege, good for you. I want our laws enforced, and they cannot get
illegals out of my country soon enough! You can call me what you want, I am an
American citizen that pays my taxes, supports my country, and wants to have a
world that my kids can grow up in and live in that supports the U.S.
Dearest Heartless Ultra-Conservatives, How many times have I
repeated that there must be "Moderation in ALL things"???Please turn off your TVs and radios,take your "kick them all
out" Beck-Limbaugh-Hannity extremist mindest - stiffle it - and Follow the
Brethern.Thank You.Sincerely, LDS Liberal
I wonder how those 'compassionates' would feel about 'making whole' those who
have lost to the criminal behaviors of the illegals? If we were exposed to the
real cost of this continued coddling, (not taking into account the costs of
education, medical and welfare) might there not be a greater interest in
stopping this 'milking of our land'. I have a bill I would like to send to them
when that compassion is extended to American citizens.
We need more legal immigration. That is the only way to solve this problem. We
rely on immigrant skilled labor too. US schools (Ranked #36 amongst
industrialized nations for math skills) are not producing the kind of students
who are skilled enough for the jobs of the future. Every year, the cap on H1-B
visas (for skilled immigrants) is reached in a matter of days. US Corporations
know that this puts us at a competitive disadvantage relative to the rest of the
world in the long run. We need more immigration for unskilled workers too. If
you don't want US companies to exploit workers, and I sure don't, the you should
be asking for comprehensive immigration reform that makes it easier for people
to come to this country legally to work. Enforcement only, as many of you are
calling for, does not reflect the economic reality of our age.
What a beautiful demonstration of "moderation" in all things,
especially on such a divisive issue that has driven many to the extreme of
ideas. This sends out the importance of implementing ideals that are both lawful
and caring for the individuals involved. I'm also happy to see the LDS church
join other religious leaders and organization on this cause. Wonderful news.
Well, if many or most on this board are members of the LDS Church, we have some
rebellion brewing, don't we? What part of being compassionate don't y'all like?
What part of pro-family causes you to quiver in your constitutional boots? Being
in this country without permission is not a felony. If you expected the LDS
Church to call for mass deportations, ask what would happen to the Spanish
speaking branches of the LDS Church in almost all states? Ever wonder why the
church still gives temple recommends to those who are here illegally?
Oh this is soooo confusing- I listen to the radio and I am supposed to hate
immigrants and understand all the evil they do and how the constitution is
hanging by a thread because of it and then the LDS Church comes out and supports
a position of moderation and reasoned thought- what will I do?- I am sure I will
do as most and find some way to justify my animosity but still go to Church and
proclaim my Chritian values- good luck
I wonder how many of the people demanding conservative Mormons now fall in line
behind "the brethren", were self-righteously touting their own
independence of mind when they opposed Prop 8 in California?As for
the "we need the labor" - this is a nation of three hundred million
people. We have the labor. What employers want, and what immigrants are
willing to provide, is CHEAP labor.I don't care what your job
is--someone, somewhere on this earth is willing to do it for less money than you
are. In the long run, yeah--more numbers of specialized workers in a country
should create more prosperity. But, as Lord Keynes said--in the long run, we're
all dead. And in the short run, you're either jobless or taking a hefty pay cut
just to stay employed.
@AnnieZI have tracked the issues around the H-1B visa for the last
10 years. It is used in exploitive manner by most of the employers. Nobel Prize
economist Milton Friedman called the visa a government "subsidy" to
employers. I am sure the Chamber of Commerce and other pro-business groups would
lobby hard against any subsidy that they don't like. American
"white-collar" workers should also - and they have - hence the reason
the H-1B visa is limited now: so many laid off tech workers contacted their
representatives against the H-1B visa that Congress has received a lot of
opposition against it. Still, 80,000 visas a year are available - some years not
even that many jobs are created in its market. Plus, many of the visas are used
in short-term situations in preparation to move work offshore - counter to the
so-called "need" due to unavailability of US workers.A
"laissez-faire" approach to immigration cannot possibly work.
Americans know what has already happened to their neighborhoods and culture.
Capping immigration is sensible - especially if the visas are used in
subsidy-like manner and work against US workers.
It is interesting to see so many LDS people against the Utah Compact when the
LDS Church has taken the position to support it.Selective obedience
to the prophet? Or is he not "inspired" in issuing this statement of
support of the Compact. The LDS Church has made great strides
towards a moderate stance in many issues and has joined the other churches in
the valley calling for reform in a moderate fashion, to avoid Draconian
measures. Why all the criticism?
So, do we go "moderate" on all the CRIME that has come with all this
illegal immigratation too? And this has NOTHING to do with..illegals doing jobs
others won't do either. It has EVERYTHING to do with CHEAP labor.
I am totaly amazed how the creators of the compact can encourage breaking the
law. I think the people siging the compact and encourage compassion should
create a fund that would help pay for the education, medical needs and food for
the illegal immigrants so our tax money goes to the American citizens that are
in dire need. We were told that in a few years Utah will be paying 40% of our
total budget into medicaid. This said in a meeting of Utah Senate members and
congressional representativers from other states. Are we so blind by the desire
of the various religions and business greed not to see what is happening to our
state and country. Many states are moving to correct this which means we will
see more illegal alliens moving to Utah. I don't want my tax money going to
support them, I want it used for my grandchildren and other American families.
Why should we take care of illegals when we have elderly that are in dire need.
Let the church direct money to the help they need. Tired of hearing the work
compassion when it only involves illegal immigrants. Will soon be a California.
Since the introduction of Rep. Stephen Sandstrom's proposed immigration bill.,
one similar to the controversial bill passed in Arizona several months ago the
powers that be namely, Bishop John Wester, leader of the Catholic Diocese of
Salt Lake City and head of the Catholic Bishops of the United States Immigration
Committee, , The Utah chamber of commerce, Mark Willes Deseret Media
Corporation president and CEO ,Former Gov. Olene Walker, Attorney general Mark
Shurleff and factions of the Lds church have arrayed themselves in opposition to
the bill. These are the same elements that have given us the use of the Matricla
card (unverifiable Mexican consul I.D. card) for drivers licenses, in state
tuition for illegal alien children, and if they had their way today amnesty for
250,000 or so illegal Mexican nationals on the Wasatch front, all this during a
time of high economic uncertainty for thousand of Utans, Representative Sandsrom
deserves all the help he can get when the session convenes the fist of the year
don't you think? Illegal immigration is a serious problem and polls done in the
past reflect an attitude of enforcement not amnesty.
I really don't care what these so-called (and often self-proclaimed)
"leaders" do in regards to illegal immigration. They're putting
short-term interests ahead of long-term ramifications. For these politically
correct personalities, it's a quest for converts and donations (which, in turn,
increases their power and influence).Sad. Deseret Media
has been the most vocal advocate for illegal immigration in this state. You
think it might have to do with their Spanish newspaper? Think again.If you were to slice and dice this issue--getting to the real reason why some
entities (churches, businesses, news organizations, one political party) are in
favor of illegal immigration and amnesty, you'll find it has at its core one
reason--money. And money is power.So the rest of us have to pay the
social/tax burden, deal with the additional crime (including beheadings and
other cartel activities), and the loss of our culture, national sovereignty, and
law and order--all so these entities can benefit.That isn't sad. It
makes me mad.
Illegal immigrants- bad, go home and take your family with you.Legal
immigrants- good, welcome and may you enjoy assimilation into the American dream
and prosper.Ignore the pandering politicians, and the greedy
employers who are seeking to benefit themselves.Religious leaders
can be respected for their charitable instincts, but need to be reminded that
obedience to the law is essential. Be as charitable and compassionate as you
like to those here illegally but they deserve no incentives, support or aid to
enter or remain in this country.Respect and enforce all our laws, or
we will have none.
Do not patronize those groups that signed this compact. This is how you
register your vote against such groups, who are really motivated to exploit
cheap labor upon which their businesses depend. Vote against cheap, illegal
labor exploitation. Make these groups earn and honest living.
The compact is not a "moderate approach to immigration reform." It is
a white flag of surrender to a foreign invasion. Our national leaders have
surrendered our national sovereignty, identity, and language to this invasion
without so much as firing a single shot. That is not a "moderate
approach!" It is complete and willful failure to fulfill the federal
mandate to defend the States from invasion. For State and local leaders to
participate in, or endorse to any extent whatsoever, this surrender is
unconscionable. There are situations an dissues where compromise and moderation
are appropriate. Dealing with an invasion is not one of them!
For those of us Latter-day Saints who were suspicious of Republicans all along,
this is truly a great day. Now, for all of you who say the Church
endorses the GOP, let's see your confusion and apoplexy boil over. For
Republicans in Utah, please stop assuming that the Church is politically
conservative. It's really not.
Deseret Media doesn't have the guts to stand for the rule of law. This call for
"civil dialogue" started with this issue.As a stake
leader, I received a few weeks back a letter encouraging us to maintain civil
dialogue regarding the issue of illegal immigration.I find this call
for civil dialogue disingenuous and patronizing. It isn't sincere at all nor is
it in the American spirit of open dialogue and debate. You can't expect support
and respect when you demand it.There is no "warm and
fuzzy" feeling over this issue. The majority of Utahns are fully aware that
the negatives relating to an open border far outweigh any benefits.
Thank you drafters and signers of the "Utah Compact" for being the
voice of reason and compassion in a very heated, complicated immigration debate.
My my....This is beautiful.Conservatives actually questioning
the LDS 1st Presidency.Step 1. from the playbook to apostocy.I suggest to turn off your FoxNews and AM radios.It's
becoming very VERY clear as to who's pipe your listening too.I guess
the G-O-P doesn't really stand for "God's Own Party" after all.
This is not what the majority of Utah or the majority in America want. When is
this politically correct liberalistic point of view going to end? I stand firmly
behind Sandstrom's bill and I think the majority of Utah feels the same way. Why
do you think the midterm elections went the way they did. Only in America would
we let 12 million people break the law and then fight for them to stay.It's
absolutely ludicrous. It is not ok to break the law no matter what language you
speak or what your skin color is. These people are a drain on our school
systems,welfare programs, etc. I work hard but don't make a lot of money
therefore I own a modest home in West Valley and it's really bad here. I don't
want to live in Mexico but it's being brought to me anyway.I wish some of these
liberal politicians, city leaders, religious leaders, lived in my community
instead of their upscale neighborhoods maybe then they'd have a different point
Please understand that if they are caught crossing the border without inspection
it is a criminal federal class B misdemeanor and they are deported. If they are
not caught or if their visa expires then it is only "Unlawful
presense" which is only a CIVIL infraction of a federal code not criminal.
I don't condone what they have done but separating their families for a class B
misdemeanor is not a suitable punishment for a class B misdemeanor nor a Civil
infraction of a federal code. It is not as simple as "what about illegal
don't you understand" ? We should not become a police state and if we
follow what AZ has done and we make the Federal Civil infraction into a state
crime there will be untold unintended consequences for not only the economy but
for Utah's future. Understanding the legal issues is a start but most people
that have written in don't have the legal understanding and they just keep
saying enforce the law... If the policeman does not see you J walk and all of a
sudden your on the other side your not going to get a J walking ticket
I'm happy to see our business, community and church leaders support a rational
approach to immigration policy. I hope leaders at the national level take note
of these principles and do what they're elected for -- create an immigration and
naturalization law that is constitutional, enforceable, and compassionate.As other posters have noted, the United States, because it is such a
great place to live, can probably not assimilate all who would like to come
here, but we should try to assimilate the maximum feasible number in a fair and
reasonable way. Our leaders should also work, as many have in the past, to help
other countries build their economies and foster individual freedom so that
people can live freely and happily in their home countries.Jingoism,
racism, and hatred for those who are different from ourselves should have no
place in our modern world, especially among those who profess, as many here in
Utah do, to follow Jesus Christ.
My family waited in line for a long time to come into the United States legally,
through the front door. Many more people from around the world are still
waiting for their chance to come to the USA, even after decades of waiting.The compact is, as claimed, a humane way to start addressing a complex
problem with layers of jurisdictions, locally and certainly at the federal
government. However, I still have neighbors (citizens and illegal
immigrants) who are both human beings and law breakers. What shall we do,
enforce the laws of the land fairly or ignore the so called federal codes that
are criminal in nature? Don't add to the problem!I suggest putting
enormous pressure on the federal government to SHUT DOWN THE BORDERS, especially
with Mexico. We need leaders with guts to make the best decisions in protecting
the souther flanks of the nation. An orderly method for legally crossing the
borders will help.Having said that, new laws should be created to
handle the illegal immigrants who are already here as long term guest workers
only. The US cannot deport 12 million people with mixed legal status without
unnecessary human andeconomic sufferings.
Thank ya'll to Recommend my page 1 post and for the - Recommendations: 20,000
and countingas you can see, "This Brother" tells the
truth, when it comes down to RINO and left-wing liberal Obama wannabee's
Community phony leaders, urge moderate's a approach to illegal immigration, when
we know real reform would be to deport them all along with their American made
kid's, they can take them back when they leave, one way or the other.
To Uncle Sam: Yes, I reside in LA, and have resided in many other places,
including SLC. Not sure what you mean by illegal immigration affecting my State
. . . "beyond repair." Issues that create problems for California
include problems like bloated pensions (none of which, I am quite sure, go not
to illegal immigrants, but rather to those legal residents that you prefer), but
as far as I can tell, all immigrants, legal and illegal, perform important work
here in Calfornia and contribute positively to my Church and community. So, as
a Californian, I welcome them. No doubt there are a scattering of grumpy folks
in places like Orange County who would take your side, but I for one am glad
they are here.
Does this mean that the community leaders support the arrest and prosecution of
the 75% of illegal aliens who commit felony document and Social Security fraud?
Source: Social Security Administration as reported in the New York Times.Does this mean that the community leaders support the arrest,
prosecution, incarceration and deportation of illegal aliens who are using the
Social Security numbers of an estimated 50,000 Utah children which is identity
theft/fraud, a felony under Utah law? Source: Investigations by Utah Workforce
Services.Or are the community leaders willfully ignoring these
crimes and sacrificing the American children who suffer very real and serious
harm including the loss of their good names, destroyed credit and corrupted
medical records with life threatening consequences in order to further the
interests of the 75% of illegal aliens who are committing major job-related
Sounds to me this "pact" just passed the buck of handling immigration
to the Feds...how lovely. Like they're about to do anything about it. Sorry,
but the LDS church is wrong in its stance. Obey the laws of the land. Illegals
should be found, arrested, deported along with their entire families if need be.
Let's stop sugar coating this epidemic and down-right invasion of all illegals
no matter where they come from. I'm LDS and I disagree with their stance.
Whatever happened to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar? We were taught to
uphold the laws of the land. Unfortunately, our wonderfully corrupt federal
government is unwilling to protect its citizenry from this invasion.
It's amazing that Churches can use the "civil" not crime argument,
when a few minutes reading sect 8 of the immigration code shows that is
incorrect.We focus on the hardships of those here illegally, but
ignore the hardships they cause the citizens and legal immigrants. We preach compassion for only those who break the law? Where have honesty and
integrity gone? What other laws can Americans break out of
Glad to see there are some who see this issue in more rational and fair terms.
I know they are breaking the law but the vast majority of them are doing so only
to put food on the families of their families. And the vast majority of them
are not hurting others in doing so. Please see the data as what I am saying is
a fact. The analogy I like to use is if two parents are speeding to get to the
hospital because the mother is in labor, they are breaking the law. But they
are only trying to better themselves and likely not affecting others. Since law
enforcement has always turned a blind eye to this type of illegal behavior, it
continues to happen and is tolerated. Same goes for illegal immigration. Sure,
secure the borders, do something about crime, etc. but for those already here
living good American law-abiding lives, find a way to allow them to stay. Maybe
they can pay a fine, prove that they are learning English, study American
history, etc. But just forcing them back to their countries when they have
nothing to return to is unnecessary and cruel.
You can go ahead and cancel my account with the Deseret News public opinion
forum. It is plain to see that you are going to strike any opinions aimed at
the leadership of the LDS or Catholic Churches and leaders of certain law
enforcement agencies that have abandoned their respect for the laws of Utah and
the laws of the U.S. When will the LDS Church and it's leaders adhere to the
twelth article of faith and tell law breakers to go home and come back in
accordance with U.S. law?
I commend the LDS Church on its humane position - it is the right one. Now I
wish it was more supportive of people being able to get affordable health care,
reigning in its tea party subsidiary the Deseret News!!!!!
Hmm. What happened to "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents,
rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."The Compact declares that immigration reform is the responsibility of
the federal government.What if the Federal Government does not want
to enforce it's own Law?
It's reasonable and compassionate to enforce the laws of the land equally
against all who break it. It's very difficult to sit in Church on
the sabbath, and be taught one thing, while watching our religious leaders do
the opposite. I can understand the shift away from organized
religion. We are talking about criminal activity. Marking it as
civil is deceptive and dishonest.
After 25 years of lack of enforcement, the calls for moderation fall on deaf
ears. A call for following the laws of the land seems more
appropriate from religious and civic leaders.
positiverealist, you need to clarify. If someone is here shopping, visiting or
overstayed a visa a few days, then it is a civil infraction. If a person crosses
the border with intent to work, it's a felony. When they do work
without permission, it's multiple felonies. The civil infraction
part is misleading, as it applies to circumstances where one could be stuck here
through no fault of their own, such as transportation troubles. We
sew the seeds of future problems by our actions today. We have enforced
immigration laws before, we need to return to the days of enforcement. The arguments used by the leaders quoted in this article show the need for
enforcement. The excuse of dividing families show us how the lack of enforcement
creates more problems.
Let me fix that first sentence for you: "A broad swath of people with
6-figure incomes, almost all of whom live in Federal Heights/Capitol Hill, came
together to encourage Utah to continue the same failed approach to illegal
immigration that has led to 12 million illegal immigrants currently living in
the US."Fixed that for you.And it's nice to hear
this group telling the state that it shouldn't 'usurp federal power.' They
surely have no problem with Utah usurping federal law when giving illegal
immigrants driver's licenses or in-state tuition.In case they missed
it, one of the underlying themes of the latest election was the public's growing
distrust of the ruling class. The electorate threw ~70 Democratic incumbents out
of office, and GOP voters turned their noses up at one establishment-preferred
candidate after another.But the news only gets worse: the economic
prospects of Americans (not to mention the balance sheets of the federal and
state gummints) will continue to be grim unless and until America starts to
control its borders. Our economy doesn't need 12 million high school dropouts,
and it never did.
Next up: the Utah Stolen Car Compact - "Enforcement with
Compassion""We recognize that car theft is an awful thing,
nevertheless there are hundreds of thousands of people driving around this very
moment in stolen cars, and it would be impossible to arrest them all and they're
going to drive them anyway, and how could we be so cruel as to deny these
otherwise decent people a source of transportation? So we'll arrest them, if we
catch them (maybe), but make no special effort to do so. But until we arrest
them it would only be the compassionate thing to pay for their insurance, and
their maintenance, and their fuel."----------------There is a reason no lawmaker would ever propose such a "solution"
to car theft. Yet that is exactly the type of "solution" they've given
us for illegal immigration.
I don't believe any of us want to live in a land where breaking the law is
tolerated to give us a batter life. Such thought could justify any criminal
activity. I am perplexed by the comment from the LDS Church,
"Forced separation of working parents from their children weakens families
and damages society."Most people who break laws are jailed, and
separated by their actions from family. The only way to prevent this, is
teaching others to follow the law. I have read numerous articles in
the media, I don't recall any articles where parents were deported, and their
children were forced to stay here.
Breaking the law is breaking the law. Deal with people who break the law in an
aggressive manner and stop the liberal and politically correct ideas that we
should condone wrong doing. Come into the country legally and then you can be
treated with compassion, otherwise stay in your own country. With this attitude
we would be compassionate to Brian David Mitchel. He broke the law too. No,
compassion is for those who do what is right and prison or deportation for those
who do not do the right thing.
I'll feel better about a moderate position on illegal immigration when all the
folks who are feeling so compassionate will publish their addresses, then leave
their doors unlocked for illegals to stay with them. I suspect none will be
doing so.What do you say? Can they stay with you? Indefinitely?
Are they concerned about what they perceive as "hateful speech" or
their bottom line. I see nothing hateful about people wanting others to obey the
law. I do understand that their are groups that fear enforcement of any kind.
The Salt Lake chamber is seeing profit above morals and ethics. Is
it right to ask the public to provide welfare for your bottom line? The cheap
labor and sales in your stores come at a large price to our government services.
If we want to come out of this recession fast, we must cut
government spending, and put citizens to work. Enforcing immigration laws does
that, but at a cost to your bottom line. It's the fear of
enforcement you perceive, not hateful speech.
How about a moderate approach to tax evasion? Just because some choose not to
pay taxes, it does not make them bad people. They deserve our love, respect, and
financial support.The same with people who steal cars. They're not
criminals; they're just helpless and doing the best they can. It would be racist
and mean-spirited to break up their families.When a company breaches
a contract or fails to pay its employees (speaking from personal experience
here), that's a civil statute, not a criminal one, and government should not get
involved. We can't enforce every single violation--it's not efficient!Would the "community leaders" support any of these moderate
The Catholic church wants central American illegals here since most are members.
Are there hispanic LDS members too? Compassion is way down the
list on motives when it comes to religions. Why is Mormon church involved?
Double standard. What ever happened to the 12th Article of Faith: "We
believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in
obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." Omit laws that pertain to
ILLEGAL immigration? If a U. S. citizen breaks the law, the hammer comes down
from the church. If an illegal breaks the law, all is forgiven. What about this
approach: level the playing field and everyone obey the law. Illegals go home
and come back legally.
We need to let everyone who signed this know how we feel about them and what we
plan to do about it. Most of these groups profit from the presence of illegals
and that is why they are behind it. The overwhelming majority of Utahns want the
law enforced and deportation the result. These groups think they run the state
and we need to send a message that they don't. The compassion they are crying
about is phony and doesn't extend to the victims of illegal aliens that you
never hear about from the state sponsored media.
The Church is in a no-win position.If they say "obey the laws
of the land" they are accused of being uncharitable.If they say
"be charitable and compassionate" they are accused of abandoning
principles set by Joseph Smith.If they say nothing at all they are
accused of not setting a proper guideline for their members.But it
is worth noting that the statement was not attributed to the President of the
Church, or the Quorum of the Twelve. It was a statement released by the public
relations arm of the church. It could have authored in the Presiding Bishop's
office for all anyone knows.OFFICIAL directions from the church come
in letters from the First Presidency, or Proclamations from the Twelve. Not
even statements in the church magazines can be construed as official unless they
are attached to an official statement from one of these presiding bodies.It appears that the Brethren are not united in this matter - hence they
are officially silent. They do seem to be united on the idea that that the
debate should be civil and compassionate.
Thank goodness that at least some political leaders and well and community
leaders and even the LDS church support the compact. It's nice to know that at
least some of us have compassion and sanity with regards to this issue.
In the 1950's, President Eisenhower was concerned about the lack of employment
for Veterans of WWII and Korea. Along with members of Congress like Sen. McLaren
of Nevada, An Immigration Act was passed. At the same time, General Swing, the
chief of the Immigration and Naturalization Service was ordered to close the
border and begin rounding up the illegals. I was part of that effort as a Border
Patrolman. Within three years the illegals were back in Mexico and the border
closed. Unemployment was under control and the country was doing well. We did it
then and can do it now. It is not a matter of compassion. It is a matter of
necessity for the future of the USA.
So this group wants cheap labor and people filling their church pews.I'm LDS and I do not support what is in this compact. It would be different if
the illegals they are protecting (and condoning their crimes) fled a country
that did not let them practice the freedom of religion. What Crimes
can I choose to not obey and still hold a temple recommend? Can I cheat on my
taxes????...can i bare false witness with a forged SS Card..Get paid cash under
the table..Utah Children have their ID stolen all the time by these same same
people that are being baptized and are bing called to leadership possessions.
Why are we baptizing those that continue to commit crimes?And what
about the fine upstanding employer that knowingly hires those with fake
IDs....Can you really, in good conscience look your Bishop in the eye and say
there is nothing amiss in your life?
"We are different from Arizona," said Attorney General Mark Shurtleff,
who signed the compact. "We do things differently here. We want to show
people we can do something about this issue in a compassionate and lawful
way."Enforcement is not the only way to uphold the rule of law,
Shurtleff said."The key is to distinguish between federal
responsibilities and state responsibilities," he said. "They're
responsible for securing the border. We here in Utah are responsible for
enforcing state laws."Rep. Paul Ray, R-Clearfield, who has been
open about his support of tough immigration policy, argued, however, that states
enforce federal laws on a regular basis. Bank robbery, kidnapping and extortion
are all federal laws, he said."A law is a law," he said.
"I don't think law enforcement should pick and choose which laws they
enforce."Thank you Rep. Paul Ray you sir are a true American
Hero. Shurtleff hit the road jack and don't come back! Oh and by the way
Shurtleff your attempt to appear conservative at the Republican Convention was
nice. Keep up the charade.
Irony; that the right, who champion "free" markets now begrudge
business leaders who want cheap labor so they can make more profit.
May I get a pass on my crimes? Getting arrested really puts a damper on my
ability to provide for my family.
To Walt Nicholes and others who think alike:I know that you don't
want to accept the truth but any statement released by the Church has the First
Presidency stamp of approval. And every article published in official Church
magazines has to go through correlation too. I know personally, I work closely
with that department.The Church has taken a stance, it is not
pro-illegal immigration as most of you say it is. The stance is a Christian
stance of moderation and avoiding Draconian measures. There is NO
inconsistency with the 12th Article of Faith and the Church's position. If
there is an inconsistency then it's in your mind. Your task is to find the
consistency, if you want to believe that the statement from the prophet is an
inspired one. Or you can remain thinking that the prophet is wrong on this one.
But that is a very dangerous slippery slope if you are a card-carrying
Mormon."Be still and know that I am God..."
Illegals, do what we American's do.. WORK! No more free everything.. Those who
break the law, deport. If parents are hard working good people but their
children are gang members deport. Become American citizens, most of the illegals
I know don't want to become American citizens, why would they when they can get
free everything?? Many don't want to learn to speak English..tough.. learn
English. My children were forced to learn some Spanish in the 70's WHY?? My
Norwegian ancestors had to learn to speak english. Can't you understand why
American's are angry??
Despite the Church's artfully ambiguous statement, Sandstrom is right, his bill
is right, he is honorably doing the job he was hired to do, and in no way is he
violating the actual, true principles of the LDS doctrine.And SHAME
on this disgusting display of corruption, these Chamber, Sutherland and other
such CORRUPT persons and organizations, driven as they are by GREED and PROFIT,
coming before us in their suits and ties and pretenses of moral and spiritual
I guess now is the time to see where people's true loyalties lie. If moderation
and compassion is a concept one has a hard time with, perhaps that is most
telling about who and what they stand for.As to those who thing we
need an iron handed application of the law, minus compassion, they really don't
understand how the law is applied in this country day in and day out.Everyday speeders are let off with warnings. Everyday people who have caused
accidents that have hurt or killed loved ones are not prosicuted for manslaugher
as they could be - the are seen as having already lost enough. Everyday debtors
are allowed to pay a fraction of their depts through bankruptcy law. Everyday
tax cheats are let pay lower fines. Everyday hardship is considered in
sentencing. This list goes on.There are plenty who are not deserving
of such compassion, and don't get it. And that is also fine. The
whole idea though that somehow being compassionate - which doesn't mean turn a
blind eye - is a bad thing is telling of some of Utah's culture.Its
the Rush versus Monson... who will win out?
Amazing how many people use "the law" to justify their harsh stance.
Well, let's change the law and let in lots more legal immigrants, acknowledging
the fact that we need them to pick our fruit and build our houses and wash our
dishes when we go out to eat. Why is compassion such a difficult concept? Maybe
because the hearts of so many are waxing cold. Lots of hatred out there.
@ abbygirl1994Walt Nicholes has a point. Else why didn't the church in
fact sign the compact? It did not.
"Only the Dark Side believes in absolutes" - Star Wars Episode 1Compassion gives everyone their chance in court. - Children
born in the US are US citizens which is also the law. Like it or not is has to
be since many countries don't accept automatic citizenship from children born in
another country, so you can't deport them to a country that does not accept
them. Children with parents from two countries may not have a country. Some
Utahn's would split the family up.- Harsh prejudices of one group may
cause prejudices of legal immigrants or worse our own citizens. Speak English
idea is against all people that are different and has nothing to do with illegal
status.I work in Brazil and I dont speak Portuguese. I am so
thankful the Brazilians are more tolerant than some of these ignorant
Utah Compact signing session outside Utah Capitol building is a publicity
stunt."Moderate" is a code word for "preferred
liberalism."Who benefits from open immigration, including
illegal? Displacing native Utah population with deprivation of employment,
increased crime, increased expenditure for education and law enforcement, and
welfare subsidization by citizen taxpayers.This is a charade. I sent
the letter to a few duly-elected Utah lawmakers urging them to ignore Utah
Compact as political grandstanding that mocks and disregards rule of law and
proper assimilation for cheap labor and increased church membership. It's all
about money and alternative political landscape in new demographic.
WOW, it's rather sad to see so called "stake leaders" of the church
questioning the first presidency's intent. It's clear that many have diverted to
the "Extremes" of polarized "ideologies". Brethren, don't be
deviated in the name of politics or other labels. As Latter Day Saints we follow
Christ. This clearly shows how "conservativeS" are been driven off
away from the moderation that gospel entails. Elder Oaks said "
I find some wisdom in liberalism, some wisdom in conservatism, and much truth in
intellectualismbut I find no salvation in any of them." What happened
with following the example of our Church Leaders? Some of you are praising
"radio or TV hosts" and taking their words and using their words in
these debate. Let's not loose track on that brethren.
A shot at an explination for all the hatred and annimosity- blue collar jobs and
many others have dried up in America- welcome to market economic 101- this makes
people angry- anger must be directed somewhere- since I love markets and
democracy I cannot direct my anger at coprorations and other entities- I want
what they have and do not really care how they got it- so I will direct my anger
at the abstract illegal immigrant and make up numbers about what they take from
me- jobs, tax dollars, etc. and I will direct my anger at government becasue
they must be to blame somehow- naturally my logic is full of horrific
inconsistancies but I will drape the flag around myself and proclaim religion to
make myself feel better and justify my hate- very sad- systems produce results-
we are seeing the results of a post industrial society- it will take several
more decades for that to work itself thru- enjoy the ride
I am pro-immigration -- legal immigration. If there is a true need for imported
cheap labor, then we should allow for a legal migrant worker pass to fill the
need. However, illegal immigrants routinely steal identities, commit fraud for
welfare and other benefits. They represent a significant portion of our jailed
inmates. Saying that all of that is OK, and we should keep families together
and be compassionate just doesn't cut it. There is a place for compassion, but
also a place for rule of law. Is it OK from someone to steal bread if they are
hungry? No, but we also shouldn't put them away for life for the offense.
People in Mexico are "hungry" fro what the US offers. But it doesn't
give them the right to steal from us.
Walt Nicoles - you raise an interesting point here, that really has deep
consequences. There are a few here on this board who hold very conservative
views that quote speeches given by President Benson before he was in the first
presidency about his views on politics. They accuse that anyone who does not
follow these opinions expressed are disrespecting their religion and are in fact
in conflict with their religion.And yet, here in turn we have many
questioning the weight of the statement given here on this subject but the LDS
church as not carrying the endorsement or representing the view of church
leadership.I really don't think there is much disagreement on the
subject of illegal being exactly what it says it is. But it is how we apply the
law, compassionately, that is in the cross hairs of this discussion. There are
very few that have not broken a law at some time or another, overtly or by
accident. But few have their homes taken from them, families torn apart, lose
their jobs or called very harsh terms for breaking a civil misdemeanor. It is
at that level discourse needs to be moderated and compassionate.
Some of these people crossed a border of one of the southern states. Others
their parents took them across. These peoples heritage was taken from them by
the same people who took Indian land, often in violation of treaties that were
then in force.Please Lord forgive those we call immigrants if they
don't take it seriously when these same people (their decendents) get all up in
arms about the law which is about as serious as a minor traffic violation and
how it must never be broken.
I am really tired of how the media is constantly trying to tug at the heart
strings of the families that have broken the law and came here illegally and are
getting a free ride, and avoiding income tax.It is apparent that the
federal government isn't going to address this, now it appears that the state is
going to go soft, and the church is going to spread more guilt, and afraid to be
politically incorrect. We believe in sustaining the law, and its consequences.
What you sew you shall reap. I see another Mexican flag and I am going to
I see no inconsistency with the Church's statement and a tough stance on
immigration. The statement directs those involved in the debate to refrain from
using silly superlatives and attacking those with whom they disagree. I hope
that all sides of the debate can subscribe to this ideal. Before a government
acts, I would hope that citizens would engage in a civil, yet fierce debate on
how to proceed. This debate ensures that whatever the outcome, the country has
considered many alternatives and after much thought, has chosen the best option.
The statement asks only for a refrain from knee-jerk reactions, but not an
open-border policy. The statement explicitly reserves the right for
nations to protect their sovereignty but encourages a thoughtful process. I
believe that the statement is consistent with the Church's mission of love and
claimed belief in being subject to governments and sustaining the law.
I was just wondering if there are any other laws this fine group of altruistic
people think we should not enforce. I don't think they spent ten minutes
worrying about anything but their own self interests if the truth were to be
known. There are a number of laws I would like to break while we are waiting to
"reform" them to suit the needs of the special interests of the state.
In the future let's see how many other laws they want to "moderate"
until they can change them. I, for one, am sick and tired of church
groups in particular whining about this issue. The church groups can get
together and solve this issue by putting their money where their mouths are. If
you want illegals to have free health care, education, and jobs, why don't you
pay for it? Put up or shut up. You all talk about what "Christ would
do", shut up and do it yourselves. You are always charitable with everyone
else's money and resources but never want to part with your own.
In the LDS Church statement they accept the fact that we have a right to enforce
our immigration laws, and that "All persons subject to a nation's laws are
accountable for their acts in relation to them."I see nothing
wrong with that. What they are calling for is moderate laws and
enforcement. I think we want that and compassion for all of the people who break
our laws. It does not mean we do not want our laws enforced.
CJ - I am sure there are a number of misdemeanor infractions you have done in
the recent past that you have not been prosecuted to the fulness of the law,
unless you are one of those few perfect people. I am pretty sure if you had the
chance to get your family out of poverty, and the biggest risk was a civil
misdemeanor infraction, your principles wouldn't keep your family in
poverty.And we hear a lot about this "identity theft"
crime we hear about. Lets cut past the clutter and discuss the reality. These
social security numbers these people are obtaining aren't being used to by cars,
or obtain credit cards - but jobs. Jobs where social security taxes are being
withheld. Withholdings for which they will never collect. Is what
is going on right - heck no. But lets take a reality pill and understand things
for what they are, not the hype. And CJ, church based charities are
putting money where their mouths are. The Catholic Charities Archdiocese of
Baltimore alone provided nearly 100 million dollars in services to the poor last
year. Your statement shows you really have no idea who funds what.
I voted a few days ago to elect people to represent me in the legislature. Who
are these people creating a compact as if they speak for anyone but their own
interests (which, by the way, they are strangely silent about stating publicly)?
Do they make money from immigration? Do they have political agendas? Are they
blindly following some principle of a political philosophy no matter what
evidence argues against it? The time for immigration into the U.S. is over. It
now only serves the perverse interests of the elites or of the politically
Mark Willes has shown some exceptional leadership on this issue. It's too bad
he isn't the Governor or the Senate President. We need our elected officials to
lead on difficult issues, not manage difficult issues.
If you are Illegal you need to be cought, processed, and deported as quickly as
possible.There is No Moderation.The soluation to the
problem of needing illegals if there is a problem. As i think a set of don't
work, don't eat laws would take care of the vast most of it.Would be
to allow more peeople in the legal way.DNA and Chip Them, so you can keep better
track of them.If everyohne was had DNA taken a where chippped at
Birth then it would be know big deal. It would be just like MGM almost every
male has it done, only with this it would include the females.The
chip could be scanned. Without the chip No Services. No Right to Work, No
Education etc etc.It would be nice to be able to know who everyone
is.If we do not act soon we will soon have the illegal elderly and
the costs of that situation.Unless your life is in danger, and I do
not mean social danger. Then there is No Reason for an Illegal to stay here.
Why?The Reform I want to see is the Laws Enforced and the Illegals
Returned to their homes, as quickly as possible. This is for the safety and well
being and for jobs for the U.S. Citizens. If you say that the
American Citizens will not do the jobs that the illegals are doing, then A.
Think Again, B.If that is true then it should be very easy to find the
Illegals.I also want to see the U.S. Borders protected to such an
extent that they cannot get in again.We could put our Troops that
are on Dwell Time to work along the Border in short shifts. Say two week
deployments with 1 month base time. I have nothing against Dwell
Time but as a Vet I would rather be doing somthing more useful then getting
ready for the next long deployment or the the next inspection. There
is nothing wrong with patroling our Borders. Good Training and of course we are
Not at War.If the Mexican or Canadian Goverment does not like us
protecting our Borders then so what.The other option is to charge
them for the cost of our illegals.
@PhillA wonderful quote from Elder Oaks. Thank you. It expresses
so much of what I often feel.@AllThe gospel is about
life with God. Politics is just how we live with each other while we are here.
One is eternal, the other is not.In our area we have a lot of folks
who are from Mexico and Central America. They are generally good, hard-working
people.Are they here legally? I don't know. I don't ask and
frankly I don't care. While I am at church, my only concern is am I helping my
brothers and sisters move ahead in the gospel.I don't go around
telling the smokers or drinkers not to come. I wouldnt go around telling anyone
here illegally not to come either.I wont be badgering God to notice
their sins in particular. Im too busy hoping He will just have some mercy when
He notices mine.I do not believe that God has given me any
revelation on the behalf of my Spanish speaking brothers and sisters. I suppose
that is only fair because they apparently havent gotten any for me either.
I agree that we have been somewhat "imhumane" to the illegal
population. If we had taken a more "parental" role and disaplined
thse individuals at the moment the were doing wrong (coming here illegally) then
we wouldn't have to be dealing with how to fix it now, that does put us in a
difficult position.I think, however, just as you would with any
child, there has to be a time and point that we take the consequenses of our
actions. Yes, it would have probably been easier to deport these people before
we let the stay so long, but that doesn't mean they should get a free ride. How
about we don't punish them in furture attemps to come here leagally. We will
not hold it against you that you broke our law already, but you have to get back
in line. And we could "humanly" give them tickets back to their
country for their whole family. I am so sick of this debate daily,
do the right thing and get on....send them home now!
No big deal. Illegal immigration is a boon to the economy - illegals generally
provide cheap labor and pay taxes which they will never collect SS check. IN
fact I imagine many of our economic woes would be reduced if we grew our market
by allowing more immigration. Let them stay and compete in a marketplace that
thrives on competition.The only argument I've heard is the drain on
social services. Make them citizens then.And if you don't like that
then provide less expensive alternatives to ER room visits and ESL teachers in
classrooms.In short - hate the game, don't hate the player. To
which I add change the game so it's beneficial to you, don't destroy the system
because of a relatively small expense.Sandstrom's comments regarding
ripping families apart are both incredibly short sighted and insensitive. It is
a bad idea to deport parents and leave a bunch of parentlless children to burden
state. The right answer is Regan's answer - amnesty.
Lest we forget, the LDS Church's 12th Article of Faith says: We believe in
being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying,
honoring, and sustaining the law.Seems to me that means doing things
legally, albeit with compassion. I notice the church didn't have
anyone actually sign the compact, they just said it was a nice document and
voiced their support of it. The document itself doesn't address the laws or
adherence to the laws. The compact is fluff; yes, nice fluff, for political
points and 'good feelings'.For those of us who have had identity
theft or who have had to work jobs for less pay in order to abide by our laws
and at least have a job, I say, let's help them be here legally, or send the
whole family home until they can come here legally. Meanwhile, those who wish
can work to increase the number of openings for legal immigrants.