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Illegals not responsible for most crime, data indicate

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  • Viva la Migra American Fork, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 1:01 a.m.

    The majority of undocumented immigrants in Utah jails are being detained solely for border-crossing violations, Morgan said.

    "They have not committed a crime other than they don't have papers," he said. "Technically, coming across the border is a civil offense – something you can't be put in jail for."
    -------------------------------
    Anyone else catch this contradiction? How could they be in jail for border-crossing violations if it's something you can't be put in jail for? Actually, the law states that a first time crossing without inspection can be subject to a fine an 6 months in jail. The penalties go up from there for repeat offenders.

    I'm getting tired of the slanted studies and misrepresented facts put forth by the Sutherland Institute. Their researches aren't nearly as sharp as they esteem themselves to be.

  • My2Cents Kearns, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 3:23 a.m.

    The DN is at it again, giving illegal support and harbor to criminal illegal aliens and once again skewing the data about illegal alien. ALL crimes count, civil and criminal. Crimes against the people are just as devastating and destructive as killing. Theft, lies, deceit, criminal intents to deceive and steal is a crime.

    What school of law did the DN attend and what give them the right to falsify data that consider some crimes not worth mentioning. What gives the DN the right to be judge and jury and decide what crimes illegals are allowed to commit and not call it a crime? Disgusting role that the news media is playing in defending millions of criminals. Shattering and destroying American lives is no justification to tolerate the acts of criminals illegal aliens.

    Sure, American are mostly immigrants, but we were all legal immigrants who got documented, identified, and a medical examination to keep out or treat diseases. There is a major difference in legal immigration and criminal occupation of a country with one intent, loot and pilfer America.

  • Bryan Syracuse, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 3:32 a.m.

    This article fails to point out the percentage of the population in Utah that are illegals. Without those data, the rest of the article is meaningless. If 12 percent of all murderers are illegals, does that mean that more than 12 percent of the people in Utah are illegals? I doubt it, but if not, then that means that the title of the article is misleading, and that illegals ARE responsible for a disproportionate amount of violent crime.

    Either way, when illegals are contacted by the police, they should be arrested and deported.

  • Larry Willard, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 5:29 a.m.

    I can see the rules for these undocumented people are not very fair and end up in for life. The State will get theirs when these people get old and need attention of medical services. This problem has and is already a concern of the State, Let them swallow it.

  • CJ Murray, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 6:01 a.m.

    What a bunch of DN ordered baloney this is. They don't cause unemployment? Ask people who used to work in the construction industry if they do or don't cause unemployment. This is nothing more than another attempt by the DN to push their amnesty agenda. As far as crime goes, ANY crime they commit is far too much, they have no right to be here in the first place and their very presence IS A CRIME. More DN illegal alien propaganda!

  • c00kster Provo, Utah
    Oct. 30, 2010 6:47 a.m.

    It's so easy to cloud the issue by talking about "immigrants" without making the distinction as to their legal status. I believe that the vast majority of American citizens welcome legal immigrants to this great land of ours, whether those legal immigrants be from Asia, Africa, Europe, or even Latin America or elsewhere. The problem arises when a specific group of people determine that their need to come to this country justifies doing so without proper paperwork or approval, effectively flaunting our immigration system. Like those who cut in line or drive on the shoulder of the road to bypass the legal drivers stuck in the same traffic jam, this selfish activity of putting their interest first over the millions who have to wait until they can immigrate legally should NOT be rewarded or encouraged.

    There are billions of people on this planet who live in similar circumstances--or worse--than our Hispanic neighbors who flow across our border from the south. I'd like to see those bleeding hearts out there who defend the predominantly Hispanic "illegal aliens" start campaigning and/or assisting more African or Asian immigrants with their arrival and assimilation into America.

  • eenymeenymyneechic Lindon, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 6:54 a.m.

    You know, it does not matter what the percentages say or do not say. ANY percent is too much, period. Any crimes committed by undocumented workers is too many/much. No, I am not a racist. My ancestors came to this country legally, that is my only reason for being so opinionated. Do it right to begin with and stay for the same, otherwise is is nothing short of hypocrisy.

    Just the results of these crimes is enough to crusade for tighter laws to prosecute these kinds of criminals/crimes.


  • Ronald Mortensen Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 7:11 a.m.

    According to the Social Security Administration, 75% of illegal aliens use a fraudulently obtained Social Security number which is a felony. So, 75% of illegal aliens are committing felonies.

    In addition, identity theft and illegal immigration go hand-in-hand because illegal aliens use the Social Security numbers that belong to American men, women and children to get jobs.

    In Utah, it is estimated that 50,000 kids have their Social Security numbers being used by illegal aliens for employment purposes. This is identity fraud under Utah law and a major felony. In Arizona, an estimated one million children are victims of illegal alien driven identity theft.

    The kids who have their Social Security numbers used by illegal aliens suffer real harm - damaged credit, arrest records assigned to their names, denied medical benefits and corrupted medical records that can have life threatening consequences.

    Sutherland and others who study illegal alien criminal activity would do well to present the entire story and stop trying to protect the vast majority of illegal aliens who are committing felonies that harm millions of American kids.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 7:12 a.m.

    "Twelve percent of convicted murderers and 8 percent of sex offenders at the state prison are undocumented immigrants."

    Do illegal immigrants make up 12% of our total population? No. Do they make up 8% of our 2,784,572 population? I hope not.


  • Candidate Jackson Sandy, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 7:17 a.m.

    In fairness to immigrants, perhaps we should also deport our politicians. As I was looking for places to place my campaign signs yesterday, I found most candidate signs are posted where their are absentee landowners -- vacant corner commercial lots, chain-link fences along canals, etc. It seems candidates are posting not where it is legal (they need the property owner's permission), but where they can get away with not doing it legally. Absentee landowners are not going to be checking those sites regularly.
    So, what is the difference? The immigrant sneaks onto our property without permission. The politician sneaks his signs onto someone else's property without permission. We could as well ask the politician, "What part of the word illegal don't you understand?"
    Well, I suppose the punishment needs to fit the crime, so rather than deport them out of our country, we should just deport them off the ballot. I warn you, though, if we don't give advance warning, there are not going to be many left on Tuesday's ballot -- and precious few will be left to fill our offices.
    -- John Jackson, candidate Utah House District 41 (stretching from Sandy up through Bluffdale)

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 7:42 a.m.

    "Data indicate, however, that immigrants contribute to the productivity of the nation. Because immigrants tend to work for less, they have lowered the cost of production, Perlich said. That, in turn, has raised the standard of living for the middle class."

    Most jobs taken by illegal immigrants are not agriculture, they are middle class jobs. How can they make the middle class better off, if they lower our wages?

    Any group that's lumps legal and illegal immigrants together are doing a disservice to honest legal immigrants.

  • Adver Taylorsville, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:05 a.m.

    This article is another piece of politically correct garbage!

  • utahmtnman Park City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:08 a.m.

    The author failed to prove his point--that undocumented workers do not commit a disproportionate amount of crime--because he failed to cite the proportion of illegal immigrants to the total population. Do illegal immigrants make up 8 percent (sex offenders) or 12 percent (murderers) of the total population? If not, then the public's perception that they commit a disproportionate amount of crime is valid.

    However, the author did point out that it is the kids and grandkids--even though they are legal, because they were born here--that are more likely to commit crime than their illegal parents. Unlike their parents or grandparents, some children of illegals do not appreciate the freedoms and opportunties offered here and are more likely to grow-up feeling disadvantaged. (Is that what they mean by failing to assimilate?) They don't want the hard physical labor jobs their parents had, and they become frustrated and then susceptible to gang influence. Once they get into a gang, crime is just around the corner.

    Crimes of the children of illegals should be factored into the equasion, because after all, our society wouldn't be dealing with them if their parents hadn't come here.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:19 a.m.

    The data's flawed, the data's flawed, said the little boy who cried wolf. LOL!!

  • very concerned Sandy, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:24 a.m.

    I do not believe in a blanket amnesty, but there has got to be a practical way we can assimilate immigrants. This country was historically built - to a large degree - on the industry of it's immigrants.

    However, as it is now, we are ignoring our own immigration laws, which is a BAD idea. We need to either obey our own laws, or change them, period.

  • BJackson Farmington, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:26 a.m.

    Bryan has an excellent point. I decided to read comments for someone making that point. I will add to it: Utah has a population of ~2.7 million. According to statemaster.com, the number of illegals in Utah is ~65,000. Do some quick math and you discover that 2.3% of the population of Utah are here illegally. These people commit 12% of murders. Ack! That means the illegals commit murder at a rate 5.1 times that of a legal citizen. This bears out my belief that illegals commit a disproportionate amount of crime, not a greater NUMBER of crimes.
    As far as employment goes - when we lived in Phoenix a few years ago, my daughter could not get a job at the local water park. Months later, INS raided that park and found that dozens working there were illegals. These people are paid less than minimum wage. Is that fair?
    I am all for legal immigration - I respect those that come here legally. Those that come illegally are more likely to cause more problems than their cheap labor is worth.

  • rw1 Sandy, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:32 a.m.

    I don't believe in a blanket amnesty, but might there be a better way to assimilate immigrants. Historically, this country has been built on the industry of immigrants.

    But, we can't continue as it is. We are ignoring our own laws. That is a BAD idea, whether it's immigration laws or others. Either respect them, or change them. Don't wink at them.

  • Ethel Lindon, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:39 a.m.

    Just being ILLEGAL is a crime. So all those who are should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Even if they are contributing like the Argentine family. Yes, they had an extenuating circumstance, but still the immigration law is for everyone.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:45 a.m.

    5%? So if 5% of the criminals are in jail...how many of these illegal criminals are there that belong in jail? And when do we start enforcing the laws.....I can not wait for the Sandstrom law to be enforced.......I am sick of people who have no respect for the rule of LAW!

  • Another Perspective Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:49 a.m.

    To those who say these people should leave, how many of you are willing to do the work they do? How many of you tell your children to aspire to jobs of picking crops, cleaning toilets, working in a slaughter house?

    Don't clamor to get rid of these people unless you are willing to man up and take their place and encourage your children to do the same.

  • Y'shua friend. Hurricane, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 9:07 a.m.

    Each and every one of them are criminal trespassers by being in this Country unlawfully to begin with. I guess that was just an inconvenient truth, so it got left out of the count.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 9:11 a.m.

    As Col. Potter would say "Horse Hockey".

  • The Sensible Middle Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 9:30 a.m.

    Before we get all teary eyed about the importance of others obeying the law, let us obey it first. Lets pay Utah use tax on purchases bought online and lets obey speed limits.

    Then and only then can we point the finger at others for not obeying laws of similar gravity.

    A famous Indian saying goes something like this, "Your actions are speaking so loud, I can't hear what you are saying". Or was it ... "White man speak with fork-ked tongue".

  • carman Midland, MI
    Oct. 30, 2010 9:38 a.m.

    To all those busting the DN chops over statistics According to the latest Census Bureau estimates, Hispanics make up 12% of the Utah population. If ANY of the Hispanics counted by the the Census Bureau of citizens or legal aliens, then Hispanics make up a disproportionately SMALL percentage of the prisoners in jail for murder, and an even smaller percentage of sex offenders. So please stop posting all this dribble without checking facts and doing some homework.

  • Christine Orem, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 11:03 a.m.

    We need more articles like this. I want to know the facts before making up my mind. Prejudice and fear take you nowhere good.

  • washcomom Beaverton, OR
    Oct. 30, 2010 11:12 a.m.

    What really is the drive for crime is one's economic situation, not the illegal aliens. That point was not made clearly enough.

    People are sick and tired of having their hard earned money given for welfare and social taxes given to those who are undocumented workers, who have anchor babies and stay. That is the root cause of this touchy situation. If you work in this country, legally obtain the Green card, Visa, or become a citizen.

    The drug lords are also literally causing the influx of people, because people are trying to get away from them. We get that life in America is better than Mexico. The government needs to find the solution to make living here with legal qualifications. America AND Mexico need to work together on this.

  • Bobo Magna, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 11:12 a.m.

    Carman is mistaken. The article states that it is illegals that make up 12% of convicted murderers in prison. If that statistic was representative of the illegal population in Utah, then there would be roughly 320,000 illegals in Utah. I think all agree that there are not 320,000 illegals in Utah, therefore, murders by illegals exceed their percentage of the population. But the real point is: all those murdered by illegals would be alive if the illegals weren't here at all! Whose life are you putting on the line because you do not want to believe that illegals are any type of problem?

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 11:20 a.m.

    I was over at the jail this past summer and I noticed that virtually everyone inside and outside the jail were hispanic. So it begs the quesiton...where did the data come from? If most of the people I saw at the jail were hispanic, then how could they only make up 5% of the jail population.

  • oracle Colorado Springs, CO
    Oct. 30, 2010 11:30 a.m.

    Headlines after we protect our borders..."murder down 12%".

  • lawenforcementfromAZ Glendale, AZ
    Oct. 30, 2010 11:42 a.m.

    As a retired law enforcement officer, I continued to be appalled at the misinformation that is provided to garner support for those who are here illegally! Let the facts speak for themselves:
    1. The most recent data shows 2.6% of Utah's population are illegal immigrants.
    2. 12% of those convicted of murder are illegal immigrants.
    3. In this very same paper, it is reported that the man who killed the Millard county police officer was an Illegal immigrant in possession of a AK 44.
    4. His friend, who hid him from law enforcement was an illegal immigrant.
    5. This nation was built by immigrants - LEGAL immigrants.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 12:07 p.m.

    Sutherland is a political group that represents some Salt Lake City business interests (including members of the chamber of commerce) on illegal immigration.

    Their opinion carries no more weight than the man on the street to me.

    Illegal immigration is a crime, that's why they are in jail. Also 12% of the jail population for just murder would equal 330,000 people illegally in our state.

    Is Sutherland trying to convince us, or stir things up?

    Using legal immigration, to convince us illegal immigration is good, is a failed attempt to convince. I think we are all smarter than that.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 12:08 p.m.

    One out of every eight murder victims would be alive today if our borders were enforced.

    Assuming other violent crimes are committed at the same ratio, that means one out of eight assault victims treated at hospitals would not need treatment if our borders were enforced. That would reduce medical costs for all of us.

    One out of eight burglaries or car thefts would not occur if our borders were enforced. That would cut insurance costs for everyone.

    And, Deputy Josie Fox would still be alive patrolling our streets, if our borders were enforced.

    There is no excuse, none at all, for allowing people to violate our borders. Send every one of them back where they came from immediately.

    Legal immigrants are welcome, but criminals are not, even if their first criminal act is only entering our country illegally.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 12:33 p.m.

    WE must vote any elected officials who support illegals,. or who aren't willing to put some teeth in our Immigration laws out of office

  • Jrifkin48 Fayetteville, NC
    Oct. 30, 2010 12:47 p.m.

    OH! Only 12% of murderers and 8% of the rapists in the prisons are illegals. That should make the families of these victims sleep better at night. Heck it could be higher right!?

  • bummy New Philadelphia, OH
    Oct. 30, 2010 1:12 p.m.

    Calling an ILLEGAL by another name does NOTHING to help the cause of keeping them out of our country. I have nothing against ANY ONE coming here, LEGALLY!!!! Get off of the Liberal Agenda of changing words to soothe the TRUTH!!

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Oct. 30, 2010 1:22 p.m.

    Enforce the law. Period. Deportment is appropriate.

  • Mr. Bean Chicago, Ill
    Oct. 30, 2010 1:46 p.m.

    Ronald Mortensen 7:11 a.m.

    "In Utah, it is estimated that 50,000 kids have their Social Security numbers being used by illegal aliens for employment purposes."

    I wish they'd start using mine... I need more quarters to qualify for SS benefits.

    All kidding aside, identity theft is a serious problem. It might be wise for parents to check with SS Administration to see if their kids' SS number is being used illegally.

    The Utah Attorney General's office advised that they are seriously investigating into this issue. I plan to contact them again in the near future and ask for statistics on how many cases they have prosecuted to date.

  • Brian H. Provo, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 2:11 p.m.

    @ utahmtnman | 8:08 a.m. Oct. 30, 2010
    "Unlike their parents or grandparents, some children of illegals do not appreciate the freedoms and opportunties offered here and are more likely to grow-up feeling disadvantaged."

    Let's put it another way. What did you do to "earn" your freedom besides being born here? I know I didn't do anything special. I just got lucky. They feel disadvantaged because there really are real barriers to their success in this country, and the children of illegal immigrants haven't done anything wrong to deserve that. Punish the parents, not the children.

    Saying "our society wouldn't be dealing with them if their parents hadn't come here" is like saying "they didn't technically break any laws but it's ok to treat them as if they had because it's more convenient for us that way."

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 3:42 p.m.

    I'm sure some of the children that grow up here do feel disadvantaged because of their parents decision. But that is between them and their parents. It's not societies job to try to compensate children for their parents bad decision.

    We don't give the children of bank robbers the money.

    I had friends that were born into money. That does not give me the right to steal from them.

    What about the children who's parents are dealing with identity theft? What about the children of poor legal immigrants who lost their job to someone here illegally, because they work for less? And what about the children waiting in line in other countries to come here?

    It all boils down to lawbreaking and entering a country illegally to work. It should not be tolerated or accepted. And all the studies by Sutherland does not make it right.

  • kreese Taft, CA
    Oct. 30, 2010 4:15 p.m.

    Does Utah really want to become California? If that happens, you'll know what the true cost is.

    I know of one privately-run federal prison nearby, where more than 2000 of 2300 inmates are illegals.

    Not that long ago, if an immigrant legally came to America, took any kind of public assistance, they were sent home.

    I know there are humanitarian arguments, but again, Utah, it is your choice to remain what your are, or become something else.

  • Candidate Jackson Sandy, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 6:55 p.m.

    Lots to be learned from this article and the comments being posted, depending on what is real. A prison with 2,000 undocumenteds out of 2,300 prisoners? Is that true? Fifty thousand Utah kids are victims of identity theft? I do answer one post, the one saying we are a nation of immigrants -- legal immigrants. I would note that was back when immigration was legal, and we make it so difficult now that it has become, for many, illegal.
    I wish we would change our laws, make it legal for them to come. Are we to deprive all of being Americans because some of those who come are coming are committing crime? Are we throwing the good immigrants in a pool with those who commit crimes? Our system of dispensing liberty and justice for all should not be so. Rather than asking whether they are legal, we should ask if we should allow them to come legally, making them legal. Many of them simply want to be Americans, simply want to pursue happiness. Do we tell them to seek their refuge elsewhere, because the previous person out of that country murdered someone? -- John Jackson

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 7:02 p.m.

    For those who don't want any more of "them" crossing the border, no amount of statistics will change their minds.

    We need an infusion of new labor. Undocumented workers are more law abiding than native residents. They work harder for less pay. They seek government benefits more than native residents. They are less "entitlement" oriented. They pay taxes. The more we allow them to work here, the better life will be both here and in their home countries.

    For those who say they only oppose illegal residents, I say, then why don't you support an increase in work visas? As it is now, it is virtually impossible for legal workers from abroad to meet the demand we have for their help. We need each other.

    Nevertheless, statistics are on the side of allowing more visas.

    Show amnesty unto visa violators as you would have amnesty shown unto us speeders and Utah use tax cheats.

  • gizmo33 St. George, Utah
    Oct. 30, 2010 7:25 p.m.

    well pure and simple if the goverment would do its job like its supposed to there would be no crimes committed by umdocumented worked because they wouldn't be here in the first place !!

  • Bobo Magna, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 8:26 p.m.

    John C. C. seems to not be aware that the current unemployment rate is about 10%. He also seems to be rather complacent about all the Americans who are out of work, can't pay their mortgages, and who need the jobs being held by illegals. He also seems to think that a low-wage economy is something our nation should strive for. The greatest increase in the middle-class and the wealth of the nation occurred during a time when immigration was very low. We need to work to make our nation better. Mass immigration is not the way to do it unless you are one of those exploiting cheap labor for your own benefit and to the detriment of the nation as a whole.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 9:21 p.m.

    Giovanni Peri, an associate professor at the University of California-Davis and a visiting scholar at the San Francisco Fed released a new study showing what economists have claimed all along, that immigration does not significantly impact the amount of jobs available to U.S.—born workers. Peri concludes that “there is no evidence that immigrants crowd out U.S.-born workers in either the short or long run.” Immigrants, both legal and illegal, help boost salaries increase jobs, and boost overall productivity.

    The best way out of this recession is to allow a fresh flow of legal labor to join us.

    Believe in the free market? A free flow of labor is part of a free market.

    Believe in crime reduction? Arizona, Colorado, and other states with large immigrant inflows in the last decade enjoyed significant drops in violent crime over the same period. Can't say the same for the poor wretches stuck south of the border with few jobs available outside of running drugs north to our rich relatives and neighbors.

    Don't believe it? Consider your sources, then look it up for yourself. Better yet, get to know some of our new brothers and sisters.

  • mickeymouse Yakima, WA
    Oct. 30, 2010 9:45 p.m.

    thats very nice. they still don't belong here. nobody who comes here illegally does. doesn't matter what color they are or where they came from.

  • C. Darwin Sandy, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 9:57 p.m.

    Do not believe anything that the press says about illegals. Being in the country illegally is a crime. What about all the illegal drugs growing operations found in Utah this year? All that I heard of were run by illegals. DN, that is a felony crime. Please, report the other side of the story.

  • Let's be real Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2010 10:55 p.m.

    Great. Now, let's get back to the issue at hand. An illegal person in this country is just that, ILLEGAL. I do not care if they are committing all the crime of none of it. They are still illegal. Period. Go home or try to get permanent citizen status but follow the laws of OUR land, not yours.

  • conservative scientist Lindon, UT
    Oct. 31, 2010 3:53 p.m.

    The article fails to give a critical piece of information: What percentage of people in Utah are illegal immigrants? Surely this is an easy number for the reporter to find. If the number of illegals is lower than the % of people in detention for crimes, then there is a disproportionate percentage of crime being committed by illegals. You can't take only half of an equation and make sweeping generalizations. This is really poor journalism. Give us the rest of the numbers and then interpret them appropriately.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    Oct. 31, 2010 5:58 p.m.

    Perlich appears to suggest that growth is essential to a healthy economy. We have learned that a 3 percent growth rate is not sustainable and subject to devastating backlash.
    Briggs (Cornell) and Chiswick (Chicago) suggest that we can and must learn how to create an economy that is not dependent upon population growth through immigration. The 1924-1965 pattern was successful and we relied on 4 percent foreign-born rather than the current 13 percent.
    Another importany omission Perlich made in helping us understand that there is no labor shortage and there never was. The injection of willing workers to compete with low-skilled citizens only weakens wages...and benefits...and safety.

  • Grundle West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 1, 2010 8:48 a.m.

    5% of criminals in Utah jails are undocumented immigrants…
    12% of convicted murderers are undocumented immigrants…
    8% of sex offenders are undocumented immigrants…
    So…What percentage of the Utah population are undocumented immigrants?

    The article’s premise is that these numbers do not support the assumption that undocumented immigrants are not proportionately represented.

    Is Utah’s population really 5% undocumented immigrants??? 8% or 12%

    I am confused…If 5% of Utah’s population are undocumented immigrants does that put the numbers at approximately 139,000 people (2,784,572 * 5%)?

    Are there really that many?

    I wish the article would explore the numbers more to support the assertions.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 1, 2010 12:17 p.m.

    The majority sentiment expressed in the replies to the Sutherland study is fascinating. To so completely ignore what in fact is the reality of illegal immigration highlighted in this and other DN articles underscores the truthfulness of the adage that people mostly believe what they want to believe and find what they look for. The real question is why is it that so many Utahns are so fervently fixated on so much that is simply nonsense on the perils of illegal immigration?

  • Grundle West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 1, 2010 6:07 p.m.

    Re:Ajax

    What is the reality of illegal immigration highlighted in this article????

    Not arguing with you but your reply seeems to turn a blind eye to the missing arguements?

    What is it that we want to believe that this article points out??

    Are we accepting at face value from this article that there are no problems with illegal immigrants here in Utah? The actual numbers seem to refute that premise.

  • raybies Layton, UT
    Nov. 2, 2010 6:38 a.m.

    It's time we stop using illegal immigration as the scapegoat for all our social woes. The truth is that failing moral standards are far more destructive than having hard working people who don't speak the language join us in a pursuit of happiness and prosperity.

    Rather than heaping blame upon illegal immigrants we should be pursuing policies that welcome them, and encourage the best cultural ideals among them--perserving their strong work-ethic and moral values, applauding their ingenuity and determination.

    It's time to unplug the haters that continue to insist that the only solution to illegal immigration is a warlike stance. It's time to ignore the fearmongers that continue to infest these sorts of forums claiming that they're going to be overrrun any day now. And it's time to make the most of this opportunity by creating an atmosphere that is inclusive rather than exclusive. One based upon brotherly kindness, cooperation and love rather than distrust, hatred and prejudice.

    Believe it or not, illegals care about the same sorts of fears and problems that our nation faces--but we've yet to actually engage their support. Instead it's the blamegame.

  • attentive Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2010 1:57 p.m.

    Maybe only 5% of those in JAIL are illegal, but that just means that most of them are still on the streets. Just watch and listen to the news every evening. It's a no-brainer.

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    Nov. 2, 2010 3:39 p.m.

    I don't doubt that a majority of crime is committed by citizens. The fact remains, however, that a significant percentage of illegal aliens in this country do not respect the laws. If they did, they wouldn't be here.

    Also, I wonder how many of those sitting in our jails, while considered legal residents themselves, are the CHILDREN of illegal immigrants? Maybe they should incorporate THAT into their study.

  • AnnieZ Durham, NC
    Nov. 2, 2010 5:39 p.m.

    Let's Be Real - No such thing as "permanent citizen" status. I think you are thinking of "permanent resident" status, and that isn't a status one can obtain when they don't permanently reside in the US.

    It is amazing to me how people who are all about "enforcing" the law to keep out immigrants don't even know or understand what the immigration laws are. You have NO idea how few visas to the US are currently allowed and how difficult it is to immigrate legally. Nor do you have any idea of how antiquated our law is and how current laws do not address the realities of the 21st century labor force.

    Also, it illegal presence in the US is a civil infraction, not a crime. There is no such thing as a "criminal" civil law. But also it is not surprising that many of you folks who talk about enforcing the law don't actually understand the legal system.

  • AnnieZ Durham, NC
    Nov. 2, 2010 5:45 p.m.

    For those of you asking for more certainty with statistics, numbers can only quantify what is quantifiable. The professors point out some of the shortcomings of the numbers. They are measuring prison populations where the numbers of undocumented persons will be overrepresented in comparison to the total number of people who have committed crimes (undocumented workers are more likely to be remanded into custody and not paroled for the reasons cited by the authors).

    Also, there is no such thing as a precise measurement of undocumented workers. Any number offered is merely speculative. You cannot compare the prison population numbers to the speculative numbers regarding the percentage of undocumented workers in the population at large.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 3, 2010 12:43 a.m.

    Pay attention to what is not told you in the news when you here about crime in Utah. Many illegals are committing these crimes and skipping town before they can be held accountable.
    Citizens who are victims of crime by illegals are the ones that pay the price by both the crime and justice not being served.
    The media is white washing these issues and are keeping this information from you in their biased attempt to sway opinion.
    Look at the Deseret News stories and show me where you have seen even one article that is written in a way that reflects negatively on illegals. It is disgusting how real journalism is completely ignored in favor of agendas.

  • RetiredCPO Chula Vista, CA
    Nov. 3, 2010 1:15 a.m.

    If illegal aliens were effectively discouraged from being here in the first place, they would then account for zero percent of violent crime--or any crime for that matter. And yes, we have the technology and manpower to button down the border. We simply lack the will.

  • Speaks The Truth Murray, UT
    Nov. 3, 2010 7:30 a.m.

    Not buying it. Just look around you and follow the crimes. We're not blind SI!!! Illegal latin immigrants are involved in much of the crime we see.

  • dave4197 Redding, CA
    Nov. 3, 2010 8:42 a.m.

    Good article, DN. Ajax, raybies, you are absolutely right on.
    But other posters, you are too full of hate against our neighbors to be included in my view of what America is about. I'm appalled there are so many posting above, who are so intolerant, so blind, and so immovable on this issue. These immigrants are mostly just poor people, and neighbors, seeking to better their lives. We need to allow them a practical and prompt path to legal immigration, i.e. we need to replace the existing bad law before we trumpet "rule of law" again. We need to open our opportunities to our good neighbors, and try to rise together. I implore those "neighbors" above posting their unbridled hate and intolerance, to change your hearts to include value for "inalienable human rights". We Americans, and Utahns, are wealthy in comparison with many of our neighbors from Mexico. We value education, let's make it available to our neighbors. We value our land of opportunity, let's be unselfish. I think we cannot afford this selfishness expressed in above posts, we can only afford to be helpful and generous.
    Good article, DN

  • Poqui Murray, UT
    Nov. 4, 2010 1:44 p.m.

    Elder Russell M. Ballard prophesied in 2005 (a meeting that kicked off the LDS Church Hispanic Initiative in the tabernacle) that within 20 years Salt Lake City would have Hispanic stakes with Anglo wards attached to them. All stake presidencies and bishoprics in the Salt Lake Valley were present in this meeting and they will attest to it.

    There must be a solution coming that will make it easier for Latinos to come and stay in Utah legally.

  • ldhhdll2 Sandy, utah
    Nov. 4, 2010 5:05 p.m.

    Well said BJackson. So if illegals commit 5 times as many crimes as a legal citizen, and their kids commit even more crimes, just what percentage of the correctional system could we free up by keeping illegals out and not allowing them to drop anchor babies here?