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A generation gap in understanding porn of today

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  • repeal1968gca Burbank, CA
    Sept. 20, 2010 1:54 a.m.

    The discussion of porn is tainted by the attempts of many women to give themselves victim status if their husband has a porn habit. Porn is damaging to men, but many women only care about how it affects them. Frequently, women use the issue as a power play. They use it to gain power in their marriage. This aspect is never discussed. Only the wife's "victimization" status and the damage to the marriage (by that evil man) is ever discussed. Many women will give their husbands ultimatums (quit porn or I'm leaving you), which is very destructive. The man is in a trap and he needs people, especially a wife, who cares about him and not just herself.

  • awsomeron1 Waianae, HI
    Sept. 20, 2010 3:55 a.m.

    I am Not going to defend Porn. Mostly because Porn does not need to be defended.

    If people did Not want Porn it would not be there.

    As a normal American Child I looked at Playboy. Playboy One to be exact. Norma Jean on a Red Satin Sheet is still #1 and can stand up against any thing done today.

    That was considered Porn, and tens of thousands of young men over the years have hidden Playboy and worse under their mattresses and in their closets with the fear of getting "Caught".

    That picture was not Porn it was Nude Art, Art at its finest, the Camera loved her and She loved the Camera. Like many others I loved her also and still do to this day.

    Hugh loved her also, she made him, his empire and his life. He has the grave site Next to hers, bought and paid for, for decades.

    Porn is around in its various forms because people men and women want to look at Porn.

    Porn can be harmless and even instructional.

    Remember the Brown Paper Wrapper. All the Computer provides is an upgrade.

    I still play Pong now and then. Also Computer Chess.

  • Keith43 Littleton, CO
    Sept. 20, 2010 6:03 a.m.

    Let the rationalizations and justifications begin! Yes repeal1968gca, it's society's fault; more specifically, as you said, our wives! So if I understand you correctly, pornography isn’t any big deal. Our wives aren't the victim - the addict is. They should simply be more understanding and supportive. After all, the damage isn’t that bad. They’re just using it as a power play!
    How can you possibly know the depth of betrayal and destruction of trust and true intimacy this insidious addiction brings upon the spouse and family — especially the spouse? The point you miss, and the point that many caught up in sexual addiction miss, is that until the addict takes total and complete personal responsibility for the addiction, the addict will always see himself as the "victim"; and, in that state, there can be no recovery.

  • Dektol Powell, OH
    Sept. 20, 2010 6:09 a.m.

    Richard Nixon tried to censor and destroy The Presidents Commission on Obscenity and Pornography for one simple reason: It showed there really is no harm from this stuff.
    Why so much worry about this foolishness? Maybe if wived tried a big harder to please husbands and husbands were more attentive to wives this would not even be discussed? So what if a kid sees a naked person, that is life. Get real folks, sex is part of life and no amount of preaching will change that. Teach healthy attitudes, not censorship. Be a bit more open about things and the lure of the forbidden will go away. Utah is #1 in online porno viewing, that must tell you something. Most places it is no big deal. In a repressive society it is a hidden rebellion. Lighten up and quit looking for boogymen online.

  • Hunam Layton, UT
    Sept. 20, 2010 6:26 a.m.

    Underlying addiction has little to do with a desire for violence or sex viewed in images. It's Everything to do with our adrenaline-addicted, overextended, debt-laden, fast-paced society, in which a weekend of sleep and relaxation is viewed as a failure, and a simple evening spent doing homework with the kids (if you had any) is viewed as drudgery.

    Our society perpetuates a sense of dissatisfaction, feelings of loneliness, loss of purpose (especially gender roles) and direction, and deep-rooted, unresolved stresses and inabilities to cope with the difficulties of adulthood, and we gobble it all down.

    it may seem counterintuitive, but the subjection of oneself to addiction is often a cry for the illusion of control. further the increase of perversity/violence is deliberate--it is the nature of pornography--because it is about the deliberate injection of evil into one's life. as the old-school evils are viewed as quaint and boring, the "industry" is forced to find more shocking and perverse ways to keep an enslaved clientele in the throes of their addictions, and thus paying.

    There is freedom, but one must give control to God and find purpose in His plan.

  • The Caravan Moves On Enid, OK
    Sept. 20, 2010 8:36 a.m.

    The article and the people interviewed are right: pornography is destructive.

    No, maybe not at first, but then again a boat doesn't sink with just one drop of water breeching the hull, does it? But leave the leak unplugged...

  • Keith43 Littleton, CO
    Sept. 20, 2010 8:43 a.m.

    @awsomeron1, 3:55 a.m. "If people did not want Porn it would not be there." “Porn can be harmless and even instructional.”

    Your choice of words totally dismisses and ignores the devastating consequences of the cancer that pornography is today. During the times you and I lived in as a child, the industry as limited in its exposure and distribution as it was, didn’t result in the kinds of consequences we see today. Back then, we had clear control over what we would and would not choose to do. Today, it’s much different. It’s no respecter of age or circumstance. Even when uninvited, whether an adult or child, we can be exposed with the filth of pornography in our homes over the internet. Evidence now indicates that porn can become an immediate addiction with just the first viewing of 10 to 15 minutes. There is more money made in the porn industry annually, than in all the sporting events combined. It’s in the billions! It not only destroys marriages, it destroys the trust and confidence of our children. So in your future “harmless and instructional” indulgence, please consider the irrefutable facts before us.

  • Janet Chicago, IL
    Sept. 20, 2010 8:45 a.m.

    Intimacy in marriage is essential -- but not just physical intimacy. A couple needs to be able to have fun together, discuss and deal with problems unitedly, parent as a team (if they are parenting), and share their spiritual lives. Once complete trust is there (and Victorian inhibitions are squelched), sex can be a deeply pleasurable adventure that never grows dull, even when bodies age and couples have to get a little creative. Sex is natural. Educational porn is a lie. Satan will never have a body, so as with everything else, he creates a counterfeit, parallel reality and plays with the sacred union of sex. He does this through porn, where every man and woman is ridiculously endowed and uninhibited. People hooked on porn see the illusion and believe it, which destroys all that is so amazing in a good marriage. There are people in law enforcement who have to watch this garbage in order to prosecute sex offenders (for example, watch a stack of confiscated videos to ascertain if any contains child porn). Pray for them. They are on the front lines of this battle! Oh, by the way, sex offenders usually own plenty of porn.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Sept. 20, 2010 9:00 a.m.

    Yesterday's forum was filled with anger and insecure rantings and I'm guessing that this one will be no exception. My wife and I occasionally view porn together and a) she's probably a bigger fan of it than I am and b) it actually has strengthened our marriage and bought us closer together. Go ahead and attack us all you want, but it's the truth. Shouldn't each couple be able to decide what the "sanctity" of their marriage means? Yes, porn can be abused, but if anybody finds something they enjoy and it doesn't harm anybody else, what business is it of yours? Too many people here need to realize that there is far more under heaven and earth than is dreamt of in their philosophies...

  • roqson Payson, UT
    Sept. 20, 2010 9:47 a.m.

    Dear KJB1 -- and you are one of them

    The only place porn helps you, sir, is in the area of sexual exploration or expansion. Porn does nothing to expand the relationship through communion and interpersonal relationships. So take your extremely narrow viewpoint and expand it a little. Would you want a young daughter to look at porn? A young son to be addicted to it as much as to computer games? Here's the biggest trial: would you want your daughter or wife to be involved in the porn industry, not as you see it but as it really is? And the problem is, as with drug addiction, it doesn't stay in the home, it gets out and contaminates society.

  • Janet Chicago, IL
    Sept. 20, 2010 9:52 a.m.

    I'm reminded of the tag line to liquor commercials: "Drink responsibly." Some people can do that, but many cannot. I've seen a lot of suffering from alcoholism, but no one sets out to become an alcoholic! I know people who can go to a casino and gamble "responsibly." They budget a certain amount for the "entertainment," and quit when they lose that amount or win a little money. However, there's an epidemic of senior citizens losing their savings through casino hopping and online gambling. "Recreational" drug use so often becomes bondage to drugs. I'm sure there are couples who can cuddle up, watch a stimulating video, get aroused, and make their own magic, but how does anyone know when it will turn into an ugly addiction? People like to think they're unique. Let me tell you, you're not that special. We are all subject to the temptations around us, and if we choose to play with fire, we are likely to get burned, and we're likely to burn innocent people around us. Ask any inmate.

  • Civil Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2010 10:53 a.m.

    Janet | 9:52 a.m. Sept. 20, 2010
    Chicago, IL

    I'm sure there are couples who can cuddle up, watch a stimulating video, get aroused, and make their own magic

    ------------

    People who think that are fooling themselves. Is it really "their own" magic, or are they really just using their partner's body to fill in for the sex they are having in their mind with someone else? That doesn't bond two people, it places a wedge between them.

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    Sept. 20, 2010 11:42 a.m.

    The subject of pornography shouldn't be seen as all good or all bad. Pornography can be beneficial to society as well as harmful. Pornography: aids as a sexual outlet for potential sex crime offenders, provides pleasure for people who are unable to find sexual fulfillment such as the disabled or disfigured, helps society be more open about the topic of sex, and aids in helping couples deal with problems in their sexual relationships. Nobody is
    forced to view pornography and not everybody gets addicted to it to the point that it affects their relationships.

    We all must be in control of our lives and free to make our own choices and decisions. Government, churches, or anti-pornography groups shouldn't be able to make those decisions for us. Censorship takes away a person's ability to act as an independent, free moral agent. By censoring adult pornography, we as individuals are unable to exercise our right to choose. If we do not like pornography and choose not to veiw it, should everyone else do the same because this is how THEY feel? The fact that pornography is offensive to some people is not a reason to make it illegal.

  • The Final Word Alpine, UT
    Sept. 20, 2010 12:18 p.m.

    Janet from Chicago got it right. Glad to hear someone in that city still can think clearly.

    The fact of the matter is that nobody knows for certain when they come in contact with pornography whether it will derail their lives or not.

    Why risk it?

    The facts are that pornography does completely ruin some peoples lives just like other addictions do.

    When was the last time pornography "saved" someones life? It never has which makes it entirely superfluous. Nobody denies it can provide loads of self indulgent selfish fulfillment but would anyone be harmed if they did not have it? No.

    When any possible benefits (few and far between if there even is any--doubtful) clearly are outweighed by the possible detrimental side effects.

    It really is no mystery as to why many people are against pornography. These people coming up with these anecdotal stories of "benefits" are grasping at straws.

    The addicts in the treatment centers, broken families, and all the wasted time and lives are not anecdotal.

    People consumed with themselves will always find a way to justify their vices and behavior. Its likely more an attempt to ease their own conscience than anything else.

  • awsomeron1 Waianae, HI
    Sept. 20, 2010 12:41 p.m.

    Keith43 Lighten up.

    I Now have an HP Gadget Side Bar Pong Game on my Desk Top, I forgot how much I enjoyed that game. I played for hours and hours.

    I am also a Tetris Expert and a Now do mostly Match 3 and Puzzle Games. Jig Saw Puzzles etc, Also Golf, and Bowling. I Blast and kill Space Ships and Rocks like everyone else.

    All I had to do to get my Playboy was ask the Cashier and they would reach under the counter and get for me. I also liked another Mag Called Love Letters. Porn Stories. I have always enjoyed the Story Form of Porn.

    In America we have Freedom Of and Freedom From Religion, the same goes for Porn. If you don't like it don't click on the Site. Put your Safe Search On and you will be okay.

    You do not have to Keyword in what you think is Bad.

    I understand what you are saying. However there is a large upside.

    Many Marriages have been made better because of what couples have learned and incorporated into their private lives.

    The personal expression of love, changes over the years.

    Why the Anger?

  • Sunshine Girl Hurricane, UT
    Sept. 20, 2010 1:11 p.m.

    I can say that you have NO idea what you're talking about unless you have been the one who's had this horrific,disgusting,defrading mess come into your marriage. I do not cry victim! I have seen first hand the heartach this has caused people near and dear to me. I'm not a prude & in no way live life in a bubble. I am very aware of what our society says is ok. I know there are millions of men & women in the world who believe this is a normal part of life... well you can have it! For me in my life it has been a source of contention,disappointment and dispair for many years. The feelings I have had will never go away.I will always live my life waiting for the botom to drop again..trying to watch for signs i missed in the past...I would never wish this on anyone!

  • kishkumen American Fork, UT
    Sept. 20, 2010 1:43 p.m.

    When I took Journalism courses at the University of Utah I learned to present both sides to the story. Here's the other side of this story...Numerous friends of mine living in Salt Lake watch porn in moderation with the knowledge of their spouses. There is no addiction, they feel no shame, and their marriages are not negatively impacted. I do know some people who have developed unhealthy behaviors due to them allowing religion to make them feel shame for looking at porn.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Sept. 20, 2010 1:56 p.m.

    Re: roqson

    I'm sorry you're so upset, "sir", but I'll say it again: Porn has been a positive thing for me and my wife. Space and propriety prevent me from saying more than that, buy you don't know a thing about us and our circumstances and are in no position to judge(And don't worry, I don't think that "young daughter" and "young son" should be looking at it at all. Porn is for adults and should stay that way.)

    What's particularly interesting about these forums is the air of desperation so many of these posts have taken. It's not enough to believe that porn is an all-emcompassing evil. It's that you *need* it be evil, as if your entire worldview depends upon that. As I've said before, you're entitled to regard porn however you like. If you choose not to partake, that's great for you, but is it too much to consider that responsible, mature adults can disagree with you without being a labelled a threat to all that's good? Based on what I've read here, apparently that's the case...

  • raybies Layton, UT
    Sept. 20, 2010 2:26 p.m.

    The stories about the victims of pornography need to be told. So often it is viewed as a victimless obsession, especially in those who try to rationalize their use of it, without consequences to anyone save the one involved. This deep-rooted and painful act of selfishness destroys the trust required to have a healthy marriage. It destroys children's ability to form wholesome connections to their parents and peers. The imagery is of impossibilities and entirely contrived to entice and titillate, and is a huge lie.

    Unbridled sensuality leads to more heartache. It locks youth into unhealthy promiscuous relations before they have the maturity to understand themselves, let alone their partners or a child. It is a form of nihilistic religion, in which the only sacrament is the human animal.

    There are sacred things, and one of the most special should be ourselves and our spouses, and we've allowed this spectre of entertainment to fill us with unrealistic expectations and our doom is nothing but a bad cliche'd ending to a narcissistic film.

  • Alex 1 Tucson, AZ
    Sept. 20, 2010 5:32 p.m.

    In our household, we have safeguards and practices that help us minimize the potential exposure of our children and us to sexually explicit material, as well as a philosophy that helps us maintain standards.

    Our philosophy is, if entertainment is not OK for our children, then it is not OK for us. If I cannot feel comfortable having my 6-year-old watch it with me, in most cases, I should put it away. It is the simplest principle to keep, and the safest.

    As for safeguards, we have only one computer area, and it is by the kitchen next to the dining area. Everyone everywhere can see it. We have one main TV area too. There are no secret rendezvous for porn.

    To help my children with their inevitable brushes with indecent material, I maintain confidences with my children for them to ask any question in the world. When they become curious about matters sexual, I want their confidant to be in me or my wife. I will not judge them for their questions. I can also ask them any question in this world too. Nobody in this world loves them like we do, and they know it.

  • Story Correction Orem, UT
    Sept. 20, 2010 6:44 p.m.

    The Witherspoon Institute referenced in the article was incorrectly affiliated with Princeton University. The Institute is a conservative think-tank located in Princeton, NJ.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Sept. 21, 2010 8:17 a.m.

    Back to the article...as a parent of three young men ages 13-19 I am just realizing the gap I have in understanding this problem. Now what? Does preaching to kids to not view these sites helpful? What if they feel they can't stop. After reading this article I might assume they are already exposed.

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    Sept. 21, 2010 11:47 a.m.

    If you all look at the problem, you will find that the most highly "addicted" people are also the most religious people. that is because people with low will power and little ability to control themselves are drawn to religion. They need something "all-consuming" and religion gives them that. but they are also "all-consumed" by other things like porn, drugs, etc.

    your church would do much better to teach moderation rather than abstinence on these issues.

    moderation in everything in life is key to happiness. If you let religion "consume" you, you will let other things "consume" you too...

    I'm sure I'll get some flack for this, but it's true so it neded to be said.

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    Sept. 21, 2010 11:57 a.m.

    re -Razzle2 | 8:17 a.m

    "Now what? Does preaching to kids to not view these sites helpful? What if they feel they can't stop. After reading this article I might assume they are already exposed."

    explain to them that these ar not "real" women and that moderation is the key to everything. If you say "never look at porn", then they will look at it. If you say "remember that the women aren't real" and explain that porn isn't something you should let consume you, then you will have helped them tremendously.

    teah your children moderation in everything. that's a lesson that will help them throughout their lives.

  • SteveOrr4576 Wayzata, MN
    Sept. 21, 2010 5:08 p.m.

    Boy did you miss the point, Charlie.

    I also find Playboy more artsy than erotic. My mother was an art history major & taught us to appreciate the human form. So when all the other 8 yr old boys were excited to see nudity, I didn’t understand. I was accused of being gay, but whatever. I’m not gay. Nor was I ever told there was anything wrong with being gay. I was confident enough to shrug it off.

    Still, I fell for hardcore internet pornography in my youth. Porn is widely available to children for free. My mother didn’t have a chance to contextualize it.

    Mea culpa, I own my current situation. It’s one ME to fix it. But it would have been nice if the crass, commercial stuff wasn’t so aggressively marketed to me in my youth.

    Think about prostitution. Could we agree that sex workers shouldn’t give away free samples at the Jr High? Should parents to advise kids that prostitution is not “real” sex? Should they advise kids to only visit brothels only in moderation?

  • Jeremy Parker Petersburg, Alaska
    Sept. 21, 2010 5:10 p.m.

    I think the key to understanding pornography today, is understanding the erroneous link between the nude human form and sexuality.

    The nude human form is not overtly sexual. Many societies exist where nude (to some degree) is the norm and yet are far less "sexual" than ours. Our society attaches the word and connotation of "sexy" to a great many things erroneously and thus sexualizes them.

    Reproduction is sexy and that's about it. And yet nothing could be less "sexy" in our society that Michelle and JimBob Dugger (of "19 kids and Counting" fame).

    We live in a continual tease. Going in either direction (towards more modesty or nudity) would de-claw the allure of pornography a great deal.

    Add in the isolation that increases as we disconnect from each other in order to live "connected" lives in which our only real emotional intimacy is with our electronics, and it isn't any wonder that all our intimate moments become compartmentalized in electronic interfaces.

    The answer is honesty, reality, the cold hard truth of what is real and of what really brings lasting happiness into our lives.

    Real people still exist!

  • oceangirl orem, UT
    Oct. 3, 2010 11:08 a.m.

    I am just glad that there is help out there. That there is hope for the addict, spouse and families. I found help as a spouse of an addict after it had already destroyed my marriage. Only within the last year have I learned that the addict truly can recover, and that there is help out there for the partners of addicts. I think we need to be more open about talking about these subjects in our homes in our world today so that there isn't shame based around it, which leads to hiding it and lying about it. It is in the viewing it, hiding it, being unfatihful and lying about it that destroys marriages. I have lived it. It does affect lives and marriages.