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Scott D. Pierce: BYU has long been owed bigger slice of pie

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  • Turtle
    Aug. 27, 2010 1:10 a.m.

    Right on.

  • bigutefan
    Aug. 27, 2010 1:17 a.m.

    Another pompous, we are better than anyone article.....

  • SportsFan
    Aug. 27, 2010 1:40 a.m.

    Thanks Scott! Great article.

    BYU has been giving far more than they receive from the MWC for far too long.

    When BYU, by themselves, is attractive enough to a broadcaster like ESPN to be offered more for ONE GAME, than BYU gets from the MWC for a full year for all sports combined, it's time to move on.

    Thompson's pre-emptive strike to sabotage the WAC deal is only a temporary road block. If CT really wants to keep BYU in the MWC, he's going to have to bend and offer some serious concessions in broadcast rights. Otherwise, BYU will leave the MWC, either as an independent or to another conference. That's a certainty.

  • cush81
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:38 a.m.

    If BSU has no clout, then why does ESPN broadcast half of their games every year? They love the Broncos

  • Veracity
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:53 a.m.

    To bigutefan...another jealous cry from a ute fan still wanting to be equal but can pull it off.

  • cush81
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:54 a.m.

    another thing that bothers me about this whole "we deserve more" attitude is that byu was a founding member of the mountain west. if they had such a problem with the tv deal, why didn't they speak up when it was being put together? it's not like the league just puts these kind of deals together without imput from the schools. the league could have gone with espn, but they seemed to think the deal with versus/cbs college was better. you made your bed, now sleep in it!

  • Wash DC Reader
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:55 a.m.

    As pompous and as egotistical as the article sounds, it is true. It does not take a rocket scientist to know that if the MWC minus BYU does not bring in nearly as much $$$ or viewers. I hope BYU goes independent in football and stays for all other sports. This would still allow BYU to play five MWC games a year... a win-win.

  • Veracity
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:56 a.m.

    I would be curious...if it is true that each MWC school sees about 1.5 million a year for football, what CT is receiving personally and what it costs to run his office and staff...anyone know? Do they received the largest piece of a pie they bake and burn?

  • Midwesterner
    Aug. 27, 2010 5:41 a.m.

    bigutefan:

    One more time for you. The issue is not who is better than someone else. The issue is # of eyes watching the game. A team could have a very poor team (Notre Dame in past years) and still be very valuable to TV networks because of viewership.

  • Footballjoe
    Aug. 27, 2010 7:06 a.m.

    Sorry Scott....what world have you been living in? BSU may not be Notre Dame or BYU, but it definitely does have a national following.

    Stating that only Air Force would be the remaining MWC team with a national following is pure local arrogance.

  • sls
    Aug. 27, 2010 7:13 a.m.

    The pie without BYU would be smaller and it would be divided between a bigger pool. This article is an accurate assessment of reality.

  • hedgehog
    Aug. 27, 2010 7:52 a.m.

    I really hope the MWC doesn’t flinch to the bulling of the pompous tds. If the tds thinks their better than their conference “partners” then simply resign and go independent. JUST DO IT ALREADY.

    The truth is the tds needs the MWC security more than any revenue upside of going independent.

    DON'T BACK DOWN MWC!

  • Andermart
    Aug. 27, 2010 7:58 a.m.

    Sorry guys. "It ain't braggin' if it's true." Calm down, take a step back, swallow your own pride a little, and you will realize that BYU, win or lose, is the ticket. They draw the largest media crowds. I know it stinks, but you can't just throw a tantrum over it. Figure out ways to harness their drawing power for your benefit. Now I am sure you have plenty of fans yourself. That is lovely. But total eyes, total butts in front of Television sets, that victor is BYU by a landslide.

    It's like these articles. The comment boards, the viewers eyes, the excitement, the hate, the anticipation; This is all about BYU and so even you are interested. You try not to be interested because you hate them. Yet here you are, reading, worrying, commenting, arguing, kicking and screaming. Get the picture? You are selling newspapers because you, like millions of others, have a stake in what BYU does. Ouch.

  • Fubecao
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:05 a.m.

    To cush81: The reason ESPN shows so many Boise State games is because the WAC has a contract with ESPN (and because of their success, they are the most marketable team currently in the WAC). Notice that most of the Boise games we see are on Thursday or Friday nights? That was one of the reasons the MWC formed The mtn. network - they didn't want to play weeknight games. I guarantee you'll see a lot less of Boise State next year when they're in the MWC and stuck on The mtn. (And that makes me sad, because I like watching them.)

  • svutility
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:08 a.m.

    Cush81, it sounds like you're a BSU fan, which would explain your lack of knowledge about the details of how the current tv deal came about (it's ok, you weren't around the MWC when the deal was hatched). The fact of the matter is that BYU (and I think Utah, as well) raised multiple objections (such as lack of coverage on networks other than Comcast) that the tv executives said would be remedied within a year or two, and BYU signed tentatively for the good of the whole conference. Since then, no remedies have been made and it has been several years, so BYU is tired of playing the game with Comcast Execs and has decided to go in the direction that will provide the national coverage, rebroadcast rights, ability to choose broadcasts on other channels (local, ESPN, etc.), and revenue that they are capable of getting for their brand.

  • 3grandslams
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:14 a.m.

    Pierce is correct, dead on.

  • BP
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:40 a.m.

    To bigutefan: I think Scott would have said the same for Utah. Both BYU and Utah have held the league together for years...its just that Utah already made their jump and are irrelevant for THIS conversation.

    To cush81: ESPN airs half of Boise State's games because Boise St. is a good team that is willing to play on any day of the week (and usually does) to get national exposure. Plus, the WAC has a deal with ESPN, and who else in the WAC would ESPN want to show?

    Footballjoe: Come back to this discussion when Boise State starts regularly selling out their 33,000 seat stadium. Its not your team or your fans (who are both awesome)...just your location. BTW, I don't know how pumping Air Force is local arrogance. Boulder and Boise are about equidistant from SLC (where Scott presumably resides).

  • chardusa
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:45 a.m.

    Ute fans and BSU fans: To say that our local media is arrogant about our local team is completely ignorant, and shows you just find reasons to hate BYU. Stay away from our articles if you don't like us, and go read articles about your own team. I'm sure the media coverage surrounding your team is equally as loyal.

  • Pickle Juice, The Key to a BCS
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:54 a.m.

    BYU is probably owned a bigger piece of the pie, but BYU is a founding member of the MWC and long ago decided how to split that pie. It seems like sour grapes and greed is now motivating BYU.

  • Tommy2Shoes
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:57 a.m.

    I try to never miss a BYU game. If I can't get there then I watch it on TV. I am part of their National audience. I am sure every team has at least a few fans like me. I don't mind sharing with the other dogs that run in the MWC pack. But, if the Y is going to keep up with the U it needs to find more revenue sources. If the product becomes the second fiddle in Utah it will hurt the ratings and the money for all teams in the expanded MWC. I enjoy occasionally watching BSU, Utah, TCU and Air Force. Let's hope the leaders get this worked out to the benefit of all parties.

  • jazzbball
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:05 a.m.

    Two things in life you can count on:

    1 - taxes

    2 - hedgie and bigutefan caring more about what BYU is doing than what Utahs doing. Not sure if that's sad or funny. Nah....its funny.

  • RockOn
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:10 a.m.

    Truth hurts. Ratings are numbers. Rant and rave and the numbers don't change. LES is virtually at capacity for every game. RES is not even though it holds 20,000 fewer people. A game against BYU in a local teams stadium ALWAYS has more paid attendance than one without BYU except the local's rivalry game sometimes.

    The free market is all about supply and demand and rewarding those who attract the demand. Scott Piece is only stating the obvious.

  • COUGARNATE
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:13 a.m.

    This article is so dead on. I agree 100%!!!

  • cougar76
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:15 a.m.

    BYU has long been owed bigger slice of pie.
    This headline should bring out the haters in droves.

    Re: cush81 | 4:38 a.m. Aug. 27, 2010
    ESPN broadcasts BSU games because they are the only team in the WAC worth watching.

  • cougar76
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:19 a.m.

    Re: Footballjoe | 7:06 a.m. Aug. 27, 2010
    I live in the east and don't know anyone who would watch a BSU game. Some don't even know where Boise is.

  • Cali Coug
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:26 a.m.

    Re: Hedgehog

    Once again you speaking out of both sides of your mouth...your emotions seems to dictate your postings. Please pick a single theory on BYU and stick with it, promote it, give it life...

    Excellent article regarding BYU's giving over the last 30 years. Other conference members received TV money d/t BYU having a national presence, they also increase their ticket prices for the BYU game.

    Bigutefan got it mostly right...we are better than most schools. We rule the state of Utah...shall we recap 2009?

  • Traveler
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:33 a.m.

    This is for the Ute fans reading BYU articles. There was a time when Ute basketball was making a run at the final 4 and BYU could not even win a conference game - but TV ratings were still better than Utah's???

    It may well "come to pass" that BYU in a lessor conference will still draw more than Utah. But what I find even more interesting that for Utah to grow and draw more fans - they may just become the BYU (Mormon school) of the Pac 12. How ironic is that?

  • andrewute1
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:35 a.m.

    RockOn- "LES is virtually at capacity for every game. RES is not even though it holds 20,000 fewer people."

    Check your facts pal, Utah has not only sold out every game the past 3 seasons, but has averaged higher attendance than the stadium can even hold. Stadium smack was old ten years ago. Now its just plain ignorance.

  • BYU, Now Serving Humble Pie
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:40 a.m.

    BYU is probably owed more of the pie (Humble Pie that is). However, BYU was, with Utah, a founding member of the MWC and as such BYU agreed to the terms of the profit sharing. BYU needs to honor its contracts and agreements that it entered into. BYU is not winning very many friends in and outside of the MWC for their behavior.

  • UteFan01
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:41 a.m.

    These articles always amuse me...

    While it's no doubt that BYU brings more viewership to the conference, there is nothing that proves they are the "cash cow" and the MWC would lose money without them.

    There are 3 ways to bring money into the conference.

    #1. T.V. contracts - The current contract is so bad that it wouldn't matter if BYU is here or not. The MWC minus BYU could still bring in the paltry $12 million a year that it currently brings in. The MWC won't lose money if BYU leaves because the current contract is still in place for the next 5 years.

    #2. Gate revenue - You can argue that BYU puts more butts in seats, but this only matters if BYU is playing at your stadium. Stats show that while BYU does put more fans in stands they don't do so in anymore capacity than Utah (actually less for 08&09 totals)

    #3. Bowl game revenue - Sure they've gone to the LV bowl alot but after costs are absorbed you're sharing what? $250K with the rest of the league?
    TCU and Utah gave each TEAM $500K in 08 and 09.

  • hedgehog
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:43 a.m.

    "LES is virtually at capacity for every game. RES is not even"

    Rock on,

    Keep telling yourself this but it's simple not true.

  • UteFan01
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:46 a.m.

    Re: RockOn

    Utah has averaged over capacity for the last 2 years.

    BYU games against UNLV and NM had less than average attendance.

    Also over the course of 08 and 09 Utah put more fans in seats for away conference games than BYU did.

    All of these can be backed by facts not opinion.

    Stop spewing untruths

  • UteFan01
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:48 a.m.

    Re: Traveler

    I don't know how ironic will it be when after all the posturing BYU is still in the MWC with their same slice of the pie?

  • Crispy Lips
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:51 a.m.

    In 10-15 years, when the conferences again go through their television renewals and BYU is again shut of the Pac 10 and the Big XII — assuming the MWC is still around by then — we can always leave and form our own, church-sponsored athletic conference. It could feature BYU, BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, LDS Business College, BYU-Jerusalem Center, the LDS institute from Weber State, and Benemerito de las Americas High School in Mexico City, and the Brigham City Indian School.

  • CSU64
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:53 a.m.

    I agree. BYU should leave. If they can make millions they should do it. Why haven't they gone yet? HA.

  • Johnny Triumph
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:57 a.m.

    @bigutefan Scott paid tribute to Utah when he said that MWC can't stand to lose both BYU and Utah.

    BYU's draw is national. Utah's isn't. That's just the way it is. National networks find cinderella attractive while she's doing well, but they find teams like BYU attractive more often, based on the national following.

  • worf
    Aug. 27, 2010 10:14 a.m.

    Yes, hedgehog thinks he's better than the cougars. Just go already! Your cougar envy is obvious. We all know that! You're bitter towards BYU!! Good! Now go post on the ute articles. Go independent and be a poster boy somewhere else.

  • yankee doodle
    Aug. 27, 2010 10:29 a.m.

    jazzbball
    Spot on comment thanks.
    Hedgies comments always make me laugh, the Utesies run off to the Pac- whatever in order to make more money and a better TV market claiming its because they have gone to two BCS games and are such a hot commodity right now, yeah uh huh sure. So BYU starts looking avenues to do the same, since they are getting ripped off by the MWC and they are classified as arrogant and bullies. Hey hedgie its Mr. Thompson that is being the bully. The MWC would be worthless without BYU and you and everyone else knows it, but the "hate" you have for BYU is clouding your vision a little bit.

    I think its quite possible that hedgie lives in a glass house too.

  • Cosmo
    Aug. 27, 2010 10:38 a.m.

    "Let's face it. BYU has been subsidizing the MWC – and the WAC before that – for decades. Any idiot could figure that out."

    I love it!

    Goooo Cougars!

  • stgjazzfan
    Aug. 27, 2010 10:43 a.m.

    andrewute1... The yewts average attendance is more than the stadium can hold? Sounds valid...not!

  • Just Truth
    Aug. 27, 2010 10:43 a.m.

    Exactly! The MWC needs BYU. BYU does not need the MWC. Utah who???

  • Just Truth
    Aug. 27, 2010 10:46 a.m.

    Exactly! The MWC needs BYU. BYU does not need the MWC. Utah who???

  • Gazpacho
    Aug. 27, 2010 10:49 a.m.

    @UteFan01

    There are provisions in the current mtn network contract that allow renegotiations based on turnover in the league. The MWC just went +3 and -1(maybe 2). The league has already lost its’ #2 revenue source (U of U) and is on the brink of losing its’ #1 (BYU). Do you really believe that Comcast and their partners won’t renegotiate that contract based on significantly reduced revenue? TCU and BSU are both fine institutions with obviously spectacular football programs, but BSU is in a miniscule TV market and TCU is a very small fish in a massive pond (an afterthought in the Texas market).

    As for stadium attendance, I applaud Ute fans for clamoring to support their team in recent years, but I can’t help but ask, why do you care anymore????? Your team has just punched a massive golden ticket! Why troll around the BYU message boards? You should have better things to do than worry about all of us pathetic BYU fans!

  • El Tigre
    Aug. 27, 2010 10:50 a.m.

    To UteFan01

    2008 BYU home Football attendance: 64,102
    2008 Utah home Football attendance: 45,352

    Taken from the team's websites. I guess I can argue that gate attendance is higher at BYU. Over a six game home game season that's 112,500 more seats filled.

  • Veracity
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:04 a.m.

    To UteFan01...2 years does not decades make...until you can do this, even in the bad years, you have no foundation in your statement...Oh and how many fans can fill the Ute stadium compared to BYU's, lets see, oh wow, no comparison...sorry UteFan01, but take solice, 2nd place isn't so bad.

  • Independent
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:09 a.m.

    "BYU needs to honor its contracts and agreements that it entered into. BYU is not winning very many friends in and outside of the MWC for their behavior."

    Excuse me. They are honoring their contract. There is nothing in the contract that says they can't leave the conference. And what behavior? They haven't even done anything. They have a bad contract. Saying BYU is engaging in bad behavior is like saying that it's bad behavior to switch cell phone companies after you realize you don't get reception anywhere. You either pay the penalty or wait until the contract expires, and then you ca switch. There is no penalty for BYU leaving the conference. All parties agreed to that. There is no bad behavior here.

  • Otis Spurlock
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:15 a.m.

    Crispy Lips | 9:51 a.m. Aug. 27, 2010 wrote:

    "In 10-15 years, when the conferences again go through their television renewals and BYU is again shut of the Pac 10 and the Big XII – assuming the MWC is still around by then – we can always leave and form our own, church-sponsored athletic conference. It could feature BYU, BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, LDS Business College, BYU-Jerusalem Center, the LDS institute from Weber State, and Benemerito de las Americas High School in Mexico City, and the Brigham City Indian School."


    That would be a great conference to play in and watch. Can't wait!!

  • UteFan01
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:25 a.m.

    @El Tigre

    That is home gate attendance.. that adds zero dollars to the conference. That is good for BYU but doesn't remove a single penny from the conferences pocket. This article is about how BYU should be given concessions by the league because they bring so much more to the league.

  • Jaime Lee Bonberger
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:28 a.m.

    For those saying that BYU helped create and then signed the current TV deal, here is some perspective that I, as an out-of-state BYU fan, feel is key.

    Every MWC school, especially BYU with its own TV network, requested specials terms in the contract. For BYU, it was the right to broadcast some games on BYUtv and delay-broadcast others. These special terms were generally accepted in the first work up of the deal.

    Then Comcast/CSTV entered the picture and changed some of the terms. Rather than sending the entire amended contract to the schools, the MWC office sent a "summary" of changes. If a school wanted to read the whole contract, they had to send someone to the MWC Office. BYU trusted the MWC in the amendments, and signed the deal.

    A few months later (2007), just an hour or two before rebroadcasting a BYU football game played earlier in the day, BYUtv received a cease/desist order from Comcast. This was BYU's first indication that the amended contract specifically cut out their special terms.

    Now see why BYU does not trust the MWC Office and will try to look out for #1?

  • UteFan01
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:29 a.m.

    @Johnny Triumph

    According to attendance numbers BYU's national following has not accounted for anymore butt's in seats than Utah. The numbers for over and under attendance numbers are pretty similar for games outside of Utah. BYU does have a about a 2.5K increase when playing at Utah State over Utah.

  • Rob of NV
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:36 a.m.

    Reasonable and logical people know the importance of BYU to the MWC. Your article is right on. Ed Graney, sports columnist for the LV Review-Journal and an interested third party, wrote last week "For now, today, Fresno State and UNR are in, and the most despised athletic program in Mountain West history by fellow members and their fans could very well be headed out. BYU is also the leagues's best all-around athletic program, its most influential, its most powerful when gauging any level of national respect the league received. The potential (impending?) loss of it will rip yet another deep hole into the hull plate of the Mountain West." His followup article the next day regarding the MWC raid of the WAC, Graney wrote "It doesn't mean the Mountain West is any closer to automatic status. Without BYU, it might never earn such a place." Well said.

  • worf
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:36 a.m.

    Freedom of risk taking to better yourself is part of the American dream. This is why Utah is leaving, unless it's because they're better than everybody else? (This is what some are saying about BYU). Where's their loyalty? BYU is doing nothing different than what Utah is doing. For BYU to stay in MWC and be forced to redistribute its television revenue with the others is an example of socialism. ESPN would pay BYU well for playing teams out of the MWC. Does the MWC have any tv contracts with ESPN
    ? The only reason for BYU to stay in the conference is to prevent hurt & bitter feelings. You know--the kind hedgehog displays.

  • Rob of NV
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:37 a.m.

    Reasonable and logical people know the importance of BYU to the MWC. Your article is right on. Ed Graney, sports columnist for the LV Review-Journal and an interested third party, wrote last week "For now, today, Fresno State and UNR are in, and the most despised athletic program in Mountain West history by fellow members and their fans could very well be headed out. BYU is also the leagues's best all-around athletic program, its most influential, its most powerful when gauging any level of national respect the league received. The potential (impending?) loss of it will rip yet another deep hole into the hull plate of the Mountain West." His followup article the next day regarding the MWC raid of the WAC, Graney wrote "It doesn't mean the Mountain West is any closer to automatic status. Without BYU, it might never earn such a place." Well said.

  • Jaime Lee Bonberger
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:40 a.m.

    To UteFan01 9:41 a.m. Aug. 27, 2010
    "#1. T.V. contracts - The current contract is so bad that it wouldn't matter if BYU is here or not. The MWC minus BYU could still bring in the paltry $12 million a year that it currently brings in. The MWC won't lose money if BYU leaves because the current contract is still in place for the next 5 years."

    The current contract allows renegotiation by Comcast if both BYU and Utah leave. Why do you think Thompson made an emergency visit to Comcast the morning he extended official invites to Fresno and Nevada when those two schools would only reduce revenue per team? He needed to know that bringing them in would ensure a continued TV contract; otherwise the MWC dies along with their TV coverage.

  • BYUblue
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:41 a.m.

    To UteFan01

    Please check your FACTS. During 2008 and 2009 the attendance at Utah's away games was on average 6.23% above the home team's season average for home games. BYU's was 7.86% above the average, sorry UteFan01 the facts prove you wrong once again.

    No matter how you try to spin it BYU is the draw and the cash cow of the conference, has always been.

  • BYUblue
    Aug. 27, 2010 12:00 p.m.

    UteFan01, not sure where you are getting your "facts" from. Over past 2 seasons BYU drew below the average in only 3 of 11 road games. Utah on the other hand drew below average in 5 of 12 of it's road games including both of it's road games against BCS schools, Michigan and Oregon.

  • Speed_Altitude
    Aug. 27, 2010 12:08 p.m.

    You people that agree with this article should totally agree with all of those arguments in favor of the BCS. It too bad when college sports number one priority is money.

  • Uteology
    Aug. 27, 2010 12:09 p.m.

    Four things in life you can count on:

    1 - taxes

    2 - death

    3 - hedgie and bigutefan caring more about what BYU is doing than what Utahs doing. Not sure if that's sad or funny. Nah....its funny.

    4 - jazzbball having a "hall monitor complex", that's not sad its just funny. To prove this point just read his entire post complaining about Ute fans posting on BYU articles, which ironically is what BYU wants "exposure", yet nothing on the subject on hand..





    I have no problem with BYU going indey, the problem is how they have handled it. In fact, I think they owe USU so they should join the WAC. If indey results in a better SOS then go for it.

    But I also think they would fit well in the Big 12 with TCU as well. Having BYU in the Big 12 will add to the rivalry.

  • steeliebrass
    Aug. 27, 2010 12:09 p.m.

    I would like to know where you are getting this "national following" everyone. If you consider only grads - then yes, BYU has fans in most places around the nation; however, you cannot claim that it is a big enough draw to warrant the millions of dollars you claim. Look at the Nelson's tv ratings for last year's bowl - BYU = second to last even with televising on ESPN. I mean, the Little Ceasar's Bowl with Wyomin and whomever had a higher rating. The 60 million homes idea is as a big of farce as there is. Did you know that of those 60 million just about 17k tune in weekly? Don't expect that number to increase to delusional numbers just because BYU football is playing WCC teams. Yes, without BYU the mtn. weakens, but don't kid yourselves that BYU has a national following in the millions. It just doesn't exist - get out of the bubble, crunch some legitimately derived data, and keep yourselves in the MWC where you can safely be the third best team annually on your perennial quest for perfection.

  • Henry Drummond
    Aug. 27, 2010 12:14 p.m.

    When the Utah Jazz came to town it impacted the market for college basketball in the state. When the Jazz became a perennial playoff team it impacted it even further. Wouldn't it be wiser to see how having Utah in the PAC-10 is going to impact the market? Maybe BYU will become an afterthought like Colorado State and San Diego State are. I think people are making plans based on data that can change dramatically.

  • Uteology
    Aug. 27, 2010 12:16 p.m.

    "Let's face it. BYU has been subsidizing the MWC — and the WAC before that — for decades. Any idiot could figure that out."

    ---------------

    Isn't the government subsidizing the organization that owns BYU for decades (aka tax except status)?

  • Gazpacho
    Aug. 27, 2010 12:24 p.m.

    @UteFan01

    Again, I must ask why you care. You have escaped! The Ute train has left the station! You are on your way to the promised land! Your baggage is packed! Money grows on trees where you’re headed! The golden ticket is punched! The goose has laid somewhere between 10 million and 15 million golden eggs! You are BCS!!! You rule now! No more little brother! BYU is in the rear view mirror and fading! You can play in the Rose Bowl! You can get to the NC game!!

    I think that we as fans (BYU and U of U) sometimes get so caught up in our hatred of our rivals that it begins to define our loyalty to our team. Not loyalty for the love of what our team is, has done or might do, but loyalty for the sake of hatred for our rival! How pathetic! Let go man, let go! You have so much to celebrate (as I would do in your shoes)! Enjoy it! Stop worrying about BYU!

  • DEW Cougars
    Aug. 27, 2010 12:50 p.m.

    mtn was a joke! how many years has it been on rivalry game with BYU & Utah? Very little revenue and ESPN should of broadcast those years - bigger revenue and exposer.

  • TLH
    Aug. 27, 2010 12:55 p.m.

    Here's what I hope happens...

    1 - This turns into a 2-year plan (sounds familiar) with BYU going Indie with their other sports going to the WAC - and the WAC holding Nevada & Fresno to their contract making them play through the 2012-13 season.

    2 - BYU then goes to the Big 12 with TCU or Air Force.

    3 - IF not 2, then BYU, BSU, TCU, AFA, SDSU, USU, UNLV & ? (New Mexico maybe) form a new conference.

    4 - IF none of the above, then BYU can play semi-annually in the General Conference...LOL!!

    One other comment, I still find it amazing that BYU is the only school out there that won't play on Sunday. It seems clear to me that if BYU wanted to avoid this whole mess, they could change their stance on that, and yet they don't. Think about that. Is it grandstanding? Lip service? Or might they actually believe in keeping the Sabbath Day holy? Is it money they're after? Exposure? Keeping up with Utah? Do these stances go hand in hand?

    Side note - Props to USU for keeping their commitments! I hope they get rewarded somehow for their class!

  • Independent
    Aug. 27, 2010 1:42 p.m.

    "Isn't the government subsidizing the organization that owns BYU for decades (aka tax except status)?"

    A tax exemption is not a subsidy. A subsidy is when the government pays something to an entity. Calling a tax exemption a subsidy is like saying that I'm depriving Wal-Mart of revenue by not shopping there. The government is not automatically entitled to the Church's money any more than Wal-Mart is automatically entitled your money.

  • BYUSoCal
    Aug. 27, 2010 2:00 p.m.

    AMEN to this article... Spot on!
    Oh and "UteFan1" (embarrassing name to carry around) Make better use of the 10% of the brain you have access to, "Butts in the seats" has very little to do with National following!! And... what a shock that went in state rivals play the attendance is higher... Hello ... when you play a team within driving distance the attendance will go up. Wow carefully with your posts, your intelligence is showing. BYU's national fan base (just to clarify for you "TV watchers") is in a different league than UofU. BYU has a much stronger fan base and WAY more interest than UofU. (that is exactly why you are over here posting on BYU articles rather than on Utah articles.)

  • Dougedug
    Aug. 27, 2010 2:18 p.m.

    We can all agree that BYU and Utah have controlled the WAC and MWC. They bring in the most money to the conference. Now that Utah is moving on up to the PAC 12 BYU stands alone and deserves a bigger slice of the pie. IF Utah were still in they would also deserve a bigger slice then everyone else.

  • UteFan01
    Aug. 27, 2010 3:40 p.m.

    @Veracity

    What does that have to do with gate revenue adding dollars to the conference??? Did you read the entire post? I was responding to your fans who are still trying to say Utah can't fill the stadium.

    And LES was not selling out in the mid 2000's or if it did there were 15K people disguised as an empty seat. So what was that again about selling out in bad times?

  • MiP
    Aug. 27, 2010 3:59 p.m.

    Uteology @ 1209: another spot on response!

    If BYU can get more $ form one game on ESPN thatn the rest of the season on MTN, that's a serious drawback for the MWC.

    All of this could be rectified if two things were to happen in the next couple of years:

    1) ESPN gets the MWC contract.
    2) MWC gets AQ bid.



  • UteFan01
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:00 p.m.

    @BYUblue

    First this argument is not about who averages more by what percent at their stadium.

    I was responding to a BYU fan who said Utah can't fill their stadium. I was also pointing out that regardless of how many people Utah and BYU put in their own stadium it doesn't add dollars to the MWC conference pocket.

    Again with this conversation pertaining to money in the MWC pocket the only games which count are the ones in conference. We use a 2 year total to cover a road trip to every team in the leauge.

    For those two years BYU put 15719 extra fans in the stands based on average attendance and how many attended the BYU game.

    Utah put 16442 more fans than average in the same two yeard period.

    The point here is based on the ARTICLE which says BYU is worth significantly more than any team in the MWC. I am just asking for proof.

  • Rashard
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:01 p.m.

    Just because 60000 people go to the stadium for a home game doesn't mean you have a big following for TV. Here are the bowl game ratings from last year. Think again Cougs. Join us in the real world.

    Fresno vs. Wyoming: 2.78
    Troy vs. Central Michigan: 2.73
    BYU vs. Oregon St.: 2.58

  • Kameron
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:04 p.m.

    All I know is that I could win 6 games next year and still play BYU or TCU in the Las Vegas Bowl and receive 8 million dollars. If Utah wins 10, they have a good chance of playing in the Rose Bowl baby. I also know that in three years, Utah's slice of pie is nearly $15 million even if we don't make a bowl. Membership has its' privelages. Just win!

  • UteFan01
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:06 p.m.

    @BYUSoCal

    All I am doing is asking you back your statements up with hard data or facts. Not your opinion.

    If you want to use TV Ratings over the past years then for the past five years Utah has drawn a higher TV rating for their bowl game than BYU.

    If you say well yeah but Utah played in the Sugar Bowl that's not fair. Okay well for the 4 other years Utah and BYU are virtually identical in their TV ratings for their bowl games.

    I'm not trying to toot Utah's horn here.. I am using them as a team who supposedly doesn't have a national following to compare to the team who has a national following saying why aren't BYU's numbers better if they have such a bigger audience.

  • UteFan01
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:14 p.m.

    @Gazpacho

    I am extatic for Utah's situation.

    Look all I am saying is give me a piece of data that proves what this article is saying or it just seems like a pompous thing to say.

    If you want to just read these articles and feel good then fine, but I am more a fan of factual articles rather than rah rah feel good pieces that are based on unproven perception.

    Case in point.. Like last year for Utah and this year for BYU. If based in fact I would prefer people say.. We have a tough QB situation here rather than..we are so great at QB that either one of these guys can win us the conference.

  • Cougars --Best Little Brothers
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:18 p.m.

    Next, they will say...

    1) BYU has been long owed a BCS bowl game invitation
    2) BYU has been long owed a Big-12 call to join its conference

    blah, blah, blah

    How about...BYU should start to "earn" some of these for a change?

  • worf
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:18 p.m.

    How has the utes used BYU to build its program?

    1. Used Ex-BYU players for its coaches.
    2. Brought in BYUs passing game and copied their recruiting methods.
    3. Used the WAC & MWC to make a name.-Both conferences built by BYU and its television revenue and national appeal. BYU does'nt have the appeal of Notre Dame, but enough to build these conferences.
    4. Used BYUs coat tail for national exposer and recruiting. (Hawaii recruiting)

    All of this is fine, but do you hear any thanks or positive comments from some of the bitter fans? This is like a high school kid who hates his parents for not being able to buy him a car.

  • patriot
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:26 p.m.

    The Y is at a cross roads and I don't see a solution. The real answer for the Y is to join the Big 12 but ... there is that little issue of first being invited and I don't see that happening. BYU is just a odd duck that has too many restrictions and provisions attached (no sunday play, lds missionaries etc...) and no major conference wants them. It may be that the Church does the math and determines that football at the Y just isn't viable anymore?? I could see that happening in the next 5 years unless an invite to the Big 12 happens.

  • govt rocks
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:33 p.m.

    This is the same logic that the BCS uses to keep it's system going. We are bigger and better so we and we alone deserve the right to determine the national champion. A bogus argument.

  • worf
    Aug. 27, 2010 4:45 p.m.

    Re Uteology:

    How did BYU mishandle this independence saga? It was a couple unanimous Utah State employees who went public on this whole thing. I don't remember BYU announcing anything.

  • Cougars --Best Little Brothers
    Aug. 27, 2010 6:01 p.m.

    @worf
    ...do you hear any thanks or positive comments from some of the bitter fans?...

    Sure, here you go...
    1) thanks, BYU, for "letting" the Utes getting into the BCS bowls the last few years and earned 20+mil for MWC (your shares included)
    2) thanks, BYU, for "allowing" us a few laughs with your "Quest for Perfection" failure
    3) thanks, BYU, for showing your jealousy, trying Indy & WACky in an attempt to catch Utah's move to Pac-12 conference
    4) thanks, BYU, for "letting" the Utes building its football program into BCS caliber program --not sure what BYU has done, but I thank it anyway
    5) thanks, BYU, for "allowing" the Utes in getting Kyle Whittingham as football coach. We like him. We want him. He's proven himself as BCS caliber coach --as a matter of fact, he is national COY in 2008
    6) thanks, BYU, for not "getting" into BCS bowls. Otherwise, we, Utah fans, would not have as much fun these last few years.

    Have I forgotten anything else?
    Any Utah fans want to add anything?
    SoCalUtahFan, any comments?

  • hedgehog
    Aug. 27, 2010 6:12 p.m.

    Let's be honest. The only non-delusional solution is to join a BCS conference....but I think we all can agree the tds has "issues" to say the least. What homoe needs to work on in finding an atractive regional "travel partner" program - and start kissing up big time. No BCS conference is going to look at BYU alone. Believe it or not BSU might be the tds's only hope.

    sad days in the bubble.

  • Will S.
    Aug. 27, 2010 6:24 p.m.

    Uh, SteelieBrass seems to think the WCC programs play football. Anyone want to clue her in?

  • hedgehog
    Aug. 27, 2010 6:55 p.m.

    Worf,

    You must have special needs. Just because Holmoe is hiding under his bed and hasn't offically "announced" anything doesn't discredit all the dirty evidence pointing back the tds.

    Start thinking for yourself.

  • Utahute72
    Aug. 27, 2010 7:22 p.m.

    You can also add to the pot in recently released figures Utah was 46th in Merchandise sold nationally while BYU was 50th. Some fan base ,eh.

    Also ESPN was using BYUs own anemic numbers on their network in Bowl games and special games to counter BYUs argument that the MTN artifically skewed their viewership numbers. BYU was asking for $8 million based on their estimates, ESPN was more in the $1M range, similar to what the MWC provides, based on their own numbers.

    Utah in contrast was one of the better viewed bowls last year outdrawing BYU by multiples more.

  • Seattleview
    Aug. 27, 2010 7:40 p.m.

    This issue of money from TV is true. However, the fact is that BYU is not asking for a bigger share of the existing TV contract. All they want is the ability to go out and market their own TV contract on their own facility. This doesnt take anything away from the existing MWC members. In fact, other MWC members get more exposure because they would be broadcast on KBYU and if they are good (Like BSU) they would get on ESPN as well.

    I want BYU to stay in the MWC but I hope they also get the ability to broadcast their own FB and BB games.

  • Bluto
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:18 p.m.

    Outside of Notre Dame and the Big Dogs of the Big Conferences, Florida, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, USC,
    etc...

    BYU...is among just a few, of the 121 Division 1
    College Football teams, that can go Independent.
    Remember, ESPN is behind this.

    BYU on it's own, and with it's "Own Name and Brand" can command, 10-12 times their current TV revenue.

    Utah could not do this in a million years.

    Utah is part of the "Collective Coat-tailers" who take cover under a Conference. Good for them.

    However, it gripes Ute-ville to no end, that BYU can match/better Utah, based "Solely" on their
    "Name and National Casche".

    Utah has landed in their best spot, and BYU will do the same, while exceeding Utah's revenue/exposure.

    The Alpha/Dogs in the Big Conferences, are now doing just that. If you think Texas and Oklahoma are going to divide equally with Iowa/KansasSt.. Think again.

    The new paradigm is upon us.

    Utah will take 5 years to share equal money with the mid to bottom teams in the Pac-12 . They will "Never", attain equal shares with the USC, and Oregon.

    Capitalism will triumph, Socialistic Utopia.



  • Chad S
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:20 p.m.

    This article is right on.

  • Bluto
    Aug. 27, 2010 8:42 p.m.

    It does not matter whether Ute Trolls sustain BYU's claims of "National Casche" or a "National Following" etc.

    Your sophomoric rants are irrelevant and meaningless.

    What matters, is that ESPN beleives it.

    They write the checks.

    And, no such arrangement, could ever be made with Utah. Why, because, Utah doesn't have a Regional following let alone a National Following.

    And what will really irk the Uties, is when
    everywhere they visit in the Pac-12, they will be and are already known as, "That Mormon School" from Utah, founded by Brigham Young himself..

    Have fun visiting Berkeley, Seattle and Palo Alto.

    All you need to know is this...Jealous little (what's a Ute?) brothers,
    is that when Utah had just achieved, arguably, the biggest victory in their Schools history by beating Alabama...they were rewarded, how?

    By ESPN inviting "BYU" to play Oklahoma, in the first ever College Game in Jerry's World. Matching the first ever College Game on ESPN with, again, BYU.

    So, carry on Utes, and don't be disapointed when you're nolonger in the polls, nor are you really getting equal revenues with USC, UCLA, or Oregon..

    Hellooo Washington State...

  • UtahBlueDevil
    Aug. 27, 2010 9:44 p.m.

    Why does anyone think BYU has a national following. LDS make up only 2 percent of the population. More than half of that are children and women. And half that number again have a connection to BYU. So netting it out, the potential fan base for BYU is 1/2 of 1 percent of the population who care what happens with BYU football. Those are some tough numbers to overcome. That is why only the most rare of teams is able to pull off being independent.

    ESPN has been very kind to BYU, and it has been well deserved. But lets not get carried away and think that the BYU brand is something that will make ESPN rain money down on the program. Ir is about eyeballs on tv's. Even when Notre Dame as 1 and 12 and they played Duke who also was a 1 and 12 team, Notre Dame still sold a stadium that seats over 80,000. No 1 and 12 BYU team would have sold out, against anyone. The programs are just not the same.

    So BYU should stop playing their old conferences against each other and get down to winning some games.

  • Utahute72
    Aug. 27, 2010 10:24 p.m.

    Ahh Bluto the delusion continues. Read the e-mail chain, the BYU independence was only until they could wheedle their way into a BCS conference, Utah is already there, nice try.

  • BleedCougarBlue
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:24 p.m.

    Ahh...Utahute72, how is it, quote, "wheedling" to win enough games against quality opponents that a BCS conference would find BYU an attractive addition?

    You used the word "wheedle". Defend it.

    Second, if your beloved Utes worked their way into a BCS conference, why would it be wrong for BYU to do the same thing?

    You: "Well....uh.....er.....uhmm...."

    Exactly.

  • BluCoug
    Aug. 27, 2010 11:30 p.m.

    Utahute72

    They are not there yet and a finalized vote still needs to take place before the utes are in a BcS conference. Just keep praying they get the final accept, or hello WAC.

  • worf
    Aug. 28, 2010 1:11 a.m.

    Utes--Best little sisters:

    All of these ute success examples are a result of its association with the cougars. It was that association and competition that built the program. They did well following big brothers example. To bad you can't see it. You're welcome!

  • Bigute
    Aug. 28, 2010 3:52 a.m.

    @Steeliebrass

    I guess BYU could become the new 3rd place team in the MWC since there will be a vacancy in that slot starting in 2011 when Utah goes to the Pac 10. Utah has averaged a 3rd place finish in the MWC during Whittinghams tenure and even finished as low as 6th place once.

    3rd place will begin to look really good after a few years of 6th place finishes in the Pac 10.

  • wwookie
    Aug. 28, 2010 4:34 a.m.

    Self agrandizement at its purest.

    Please, Please, Please go independent and prove everyone but the BYU bandwagoners wrong ...

    - or is the byu AD afraid that very few people outside of the mormon base even know that brigham young is a division 1 football team? In 1984, that wasnt the case, but that was 25 and a generation ago (2 generations ago in the state of Utah)

  • duckhouse
    Aug. 28, 2010 8:34 a.m.

    Let's move to independence and stop all this. I think BYU can do good as an independent for a couple of great years. Give it a shot, we are all behind you..........Go Cougs.

  • worf
    Aug. 28, 2010 9:33 a.m.

    With Utah going to the pac-10, why this ute bitterment for BYU going independent? I don't get it!

    During the 1970's & 80's, BYU beat Utah about 18 of 20 games. In trying to beat BYU, Utah grew stronger in football. They took BYU players for coaches, their passing game, and recruited Hawaiian players. They copied BYU and have done very well the past several years. The utes have been a good apprentice and the cougars have taught them well. Over the past four years, the cougars have had to play alittle harder to keep winning. Now its time for the utes to leave big brother and the Mountain West home and fend for themselves. Maybe big brother cougars will do something similar. Hopefully both teams will represent the state well.

  • fresnogirl
    Aug. 30, 2010 12:21 p.m.

    Just as it was not selfish for Utah to leave to go to another conference, it is not selfish for BYU to leave. To say it is, is to impose an unfair double standard. BYU is abiding by it's contractual obligations. If they want to leave by next season, they will announce it by Sept. 1st. (Same rules as the U had). There is no difference ethically nor contractually.

    As for leaving the MWC, Brad Holmoe has only stated that BYU is exploring all their options ... same as he said in July. In other words, the announcement has yet to be made. I clarify this point for all of those who seem to think that BYU would have to COME BACK to the MWC. They have yet to leave the MWC. They are exploring their options.

  • manaen
    Sept. 2, 2010 12:41 p.m.

    Are you aware that you used "MWC" and "smart" in the same sentence?