This article is dead on. Further, BYU will replace BSU as the
darling of ESPN. It is great for both BYU and ESPN. BSU will now
have to work under the burden of the MTN TV obscurity. They would be better off
in the WAC with its TV deal. BSU will help the MTN. The MTN will crush BSU's
How about cutting a deal with Jerry Jones on a new bowl in the Taj Mahal? I
suspect that could be done and decent sponsorship found.Jerry is
looking for a way to horn in on the big time bowls. Even if it were
for a non New Years Day bowl it would be better than the Vegas bowl. Jerry can
cut deals that fill his stadium.
Some big assumptions. First, that added exposure for the football program is a
positive image for the church. We've all seen very public examples of
poor sportsmanship, and while cases like Max Hall's tirade and fans fights with
UNLV in the basketball tournaments are more the exception than the rule, those
cases truly do more to hurt the church's image than winning against teams like
San Jose State or New Mexico State do to help the image. No, DH.
The truth is, if it really is all about positive exposure and not about money,
then BYU will still move forward as an independent in football (they would have
done it before Utah left for more money), even after Craig Thompson crippled
their plans to sabotage the MWC. My guess is that they're going to
stay put, because the deal suddenly became much less attractive for their other
sports, and to ESPN. And even though you'd like to think that this was all
about a more righteous motive, we'll see very clearly that this is all about
BYU averages 64000+ in home attendance. AF 36000, BSU 33000, CSU 23000, NM
27000, SDSU 24000, TCU 38000, UNLV 23000, Utah 45000, WY 19000. It
should not be to hard to schedule teams with at least as much home attendance.
Fresno and Nevada have 35000 and 17000 in attendance. Does not help
much for the MTN. BYU is ranked 27th in home attendance but could
add another 25000 seats and be in the top 10 attendance ahead of NE, USC and OK.
Right behind FL. BYU need to expand its stadium again now as an
yep.BYU will have way better exposure with ESPN and BYUTV than
staying in the MWC with Versus, CBSC, and The Mountain Channel. I wouldn't be
surprised if BYU already has the BCS issue hashed out with ESPN as well. It
will be interesting to hear what exactly BYU's contract with ESPN entails money
wise as well. I've heard the rumors about how much they could get. Regardless,
BYU will have much more exposure and with exposure also helps with the
recruiting as well.
yes, going independent will provide more exposure nationally. The faith is the
driver. They can gain only so much exposure by visiting Laramie and Abq every
other year. I would like to know why the other sports outside of football can't
stay in the MWC.
Why muck up BYUtv with sports programming? Why not add a companion channel
(let's call it the BYU Sports Network for sake of a better name right now) that
can cross promote with BYUtv? Doesn't the new HD facility provide bandwidth for
3 more HD channels of programming?
From the top:"It provides BYU flexibility in negotiating TV rights
and establishing itself as an unencumbered brand in case the Big 12 decided to
add two teams."Funny, "encumbered" Utah and BSU were able to change
conferences..."The impending move will significantly bring BYU
football and basketball more exposure nationally through ESPN."That's IF ESPN wants to carry a lot of Cougar games. But with BYU's football
record against ranked opponents (5-14 since joining the MWC) and their horrible
NCAA Tournament record, why would they?"Look no further than the
brand Boise State has forged in a short time through ESPN."Exactly.
BSU "forged their brand" by WINNING high-profile games. Contrast that with
BYU's record listed 2 paragraphs above.BYU-TV was created to "enable
its viewers to see the good in the world around them."Do you really
think BYU sports is an example of "the good in the world around them?""It is also a vehicle for the LDS Church to define itself without....hitting
folks over the head with a preachy heavy two-by-four."I say this as
a lifelong LDS - ...but that's what we're best at!
Wasn't the MTN created in part to BYUs backing? Own it, you were one to push
for it.As far as exposure I thought BYU with all it's tradition and
domination of the MWC it is one of the premier programs in the country?I guess BYU fans were wrong, it really isn't about top 25 finishes with games
in Vegas which happens to be on ESPN.
I agree with this article, that exposure is a key, but again would say you can't
overestimate the importance of being "free to act, and not be acted upon" is to
the LDS faith...sports is a great way to teach what The Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-Day-Saints is all about....many of the so-called experts on talk-radio
just do not get it, that while winning, money, recognition are factors for
anything BYU does, the key mission is to show the world that the Restored Gospel
of Jesus Christ is real and brings life "more abundantly" in every facet...the
creative talent at the Y would have an opportunity to shine in broadcasting Y
sports and influence, the first-class, state of the art broadcasting facilities
are again only an echoing of that creed to show strength and goodness in having
a total "style of our own," that honestly seeks to be a shinning light on a
I am a big BYU fan and have been all my life (like the Utes too). Harmon's
hyperbole, however, is getting nauseating. BYU's football program is a "light
hidden under a bushel in the MWC"? That is ridiculous. If BYU wins the BCS
National Championship, will that make people view us more favorably? Will they
suddenly think we aren't polygamists, or that we read the Bible or believe in
Jesus? If BYU is visible on ESPN every Saturday, are we somehow more
trustworthy?I don't know which is better (going independent or not),
but I hope we're not counting on the football team to make our public opinion
numbers look better. The football and other sport programs are great assets,
particularly for developing character for the participants, but let's not get
too dramatic about it. Is more exposure for the football team good for the
Church? In some ways, I am sure it is. Probably not when the athletes commit
personal fouls or behave in an unsportsmanlike way, or the fans fight with
opposing coaches and players--unless we want to appear to the world to be
"normal" (whatever that is).
No, this article is dead on. Exposure was the reason for making the move. But
that doesn't mean it might not still fall through. Money may not be the main
impetus for the move, but it can't be ignored, and if the WAC is too crippled
that it doesn't make fiscal sense anymore, then BYU might stay put in the
MWC.But that doesn't change why they considered the move in the
first place.Don't underestimate how important BYU-TV is to getting
the word out about the Church and university. My friend in Georgia said all her
scrapbooking buddies knew and loved BYU-TV because it had the best scrapbooking
shows, and then they stuck around to see devotionals and were impressed. Now
BYU-TV would like to do something similar for the male audience. Draw them in
with sports, and maybe they'll see the Church isn't so scary after all.I agree that Max's tirade and things like that are huge steps backward.
Hopefully that won't happen often. If it became too common, the Church would
shut sports down that quick.
Great article Mr. Harmon. It seems most sportswriters misunderstand what drives
BYU. You are spot on.
Outsiders and church haters will never really understand what this is all about.
To them winning and the sports program is all that matters. That is why they
will sell their souls in recruiting and look the other way when it comes to
character or what is happening with the athletes that they have brought onto
their campuses (USC anyone?). We have had our missteps. Our players make
mistakes in what they say and do. But there is no comparison in the purpose of
our programs or the type of athletes that we attract to other institutions. BYU
sports simply has a different mission to fulfill (pun intended).
Why do they need more exposure? They are still supported by a large number of
LDS households and their recruiting is mostly limited to that same group.How is going independent going to increase exposure? They'll still mostly play
in the west, football fans in the west already know who they are.Their
recruiting has been the same for the last 30+ years and will continue to be the
same.All this is doing is leaving several programs in the former WAC
scrambling to recover.Once again, Utah is the first domino to get things
going. The exception is that nobody blamed Utah for leaving, everyone thinks byu
is just being self serving and arrogant for what they're doing.
I don't understand how the state of the art TV capability is HD. The BYU TV
channel I receive on cable in not high definition. Is the HD coming
or am I missing something?
So maybe, for once in your existence, you can swallow your ego and give the real
reason why this has suddenly became an option.......
Thanks Dick,I have been whining for 4 years+, that I, a long time
contributor to BYU and BYU Athletics can't see any football or basketball games
in Arizona, along with the 400,000 other Desert State members. The Alumni
doesn't end at the Utah border, why should the televised coverage of BYU sports
via the invisible airwaves end at such a point? The "mushroom network" created
as the MWC presidents "Evil Spawn," was a huge mistake at precisely the wrong
time. Does it really matter if another BYU president was part of the creation?
It was shortsighted, incredibly naive, and just plain stupid. Do we have to
remain with our mistakes, or are we given the right to examine, refocus, and
leave the past in the rearview? Apparently the administration has done so,
Independence is the new route. What ignited the idea into action? I don't think
it had much to do with whatever Utah did, the key was the Oklahoma-BYU 2009
opener, when BYU proved it belonged on the same field at last year's runner-up,
and did so with zillions of eyes having an interest is seeing it happen.
100% agreed.BYU possibly going independent is not about money, it's
about exposure.BYU, because of the LDS church, already has all the
money it needs to operate at a high level of success (recruiting trips, nice
facilities, decent salaries for coaches, etc). Yes, tithing helps pay for all
this.So it's not about money. It's about exposure.If
BYU is reasonably confident it can be more like Notre Dame and not like Navy, I
say go for it. Seems like a bummer to leave the MWC now that we
finally have an opportunity to play Boise State but anti-BYU whiners as well as
many devout BYU fans have been clamoring for years to see how good we really are
and scheduling more good teams via independence gives us that chance.If the PAC-10 (12) or other major conferences don't find us appealing and
won't help us sell ourselves then we'll have to do that on our own.
independence is stupid. independence means no bowl games (no BCS, No
Vagus nor any other bowl games), less paid exposure (BYU TV would be great for
reruns but would it result in better exposure, no), less money overall (how many
games will ESPN Broadcast and at what times? game times was one of the major
reasons the MWC started MTN in the first place), loss of rivalry games (no TCU,
BSU, FSU, CSU UNLV, SDSU or Air Force) stop the madness, If BYU can
get a separate deal fine. play a few more games on BYU TV simulcast them with
ESPN or some other network but do not go independent.If BYU Goes
independent. Fire Holmoe.
Pride and $$$, what a mess!
i joined the LDS church in California when I was 20. I moved to Utah and one the
first things that astonished me was hearing so called LDS Ute fans ripping on
BYU. Who's side are you on people? You sit there and rip on one of your church's
entities? You have all this hatred for it because of jealousy and anger towards
holier than thou Y fans. Get a grip and think about you are ripping on when you
kick and mock the school.I see comments from people like Ute '95 and
I cringe. This guy says he is lifelong LDS and then mocks how we do our
missionary work? Someone has their priorities out of whack. Are all Ute fans so
blinded by their hatred of the Y football program that they are willing to mock
the church as well.My observation of this makes me wonder how
valiant to the cause they really are.
TheSpiker | 7:47 a.m. Aug. 19, 2010 "Outsiders and church haters
will never really understand what this is all about. To them winning and the
sports program is all that matters."Hold on there, brother. Your
comments are a bit over the top. BYU fans are masters at quoting meaningless
W-L records from decades ago. You want to talk character? See Max Hall, Jan
Jorgensen, Berry Lamb. It's too easy to say "We have had our
missteps" and leave it at that. Sports brings out the worst in people, BYU
players and fans as well. The objective in sports is domination of an opponent,
not love and harmony. The objective of sports does not ring true
with LDS values. Don't believe me? Ask all the people and athletes associated
with what was once the WAC how they feel about BYU today.
It's interesting to read the jealousy and hatred oozing from off the hill over a
change that has absolutely nothing to do with the Utes.What's
becoming increasingly obvious is that the Utes are shaking in their moccassins
over the possibility of the Cougars stealing all of their thunder, in terms of
national exposure, from the Ute's move to the PAC.
That's right Buzz, one must be an ardent Y fan to be a faithful member of the
church. I have no animosity towards the Y, but comments like yours are a big
reason why so many LDS members get turned off from the Y (regarding athletics)
over the years. I am an example of that, 18 years and counting.It
seems that the church's message and trying to be competitive in athletics are
all too often not compatible. It's a lofty and worthy goal, but I think too much
is often sacrificed in the name of staying competitive in athletics. I don't
know what the answer is for the Yl it's a tough position to be in.Anyway, be careful in criticizing members who are LDS and don't champion Y
athletics. It is too broad of a statement to judge so many people on something
as silly as football. I would hope LDS members could base their testimony on
something stronger than supporting a particular football team. I would also hope
that you would refrain from generalized judgments. Broad statements such as
these tend to feed the animosity rather than alleviate it.
Re: BuzzAll I can say is WOW.
Buzz is actually right, and a hate-filled opponents will never see that. All
members of the church should remember what Cecil O. Samuelson (a General
Authority for the church) said about BYU: "The work at BYU is an essential part
of the work of the Lord" or something very similar. BYU is not perfect, nor are
its fans, but any LDS person knows the mission of the church, and BYU is one of
those ways to fulfill its mission. I feel bad for those who need to hate on BYU
and are active members of the church. I want to read what the apostles say
about this when it's all done. That is what I'll believe.
I read more about justification for a pending move and suspension of reality
than I read anything about jealousy and hated oozing from off the hill! Utes
are not shaking in our moccasins, nor do we care if BYU goes indy! I actually
thought the headline in the Trib this morning summed it up best "BYU Goes
Rouge"!! This move may be about increasing exposure and spreading the gospel,
but to believe that it has nothing to do with money is naive. If the Y has to
play 5 or 6 of what's left of the WAC weak sisters, it will not matter how many
games ESPN gets them! Hitching one's stardom to what ESPN can do for you is to
enter into a precarious financial relationship that has the Y's success
determined by what ESPN chooses. Seems to me more like indentured servitude than
Look it might be about exposure to a degree. I think the real reasons are
1)Jealousy, (Utah moving to the PAC-10) 2)Greed not enough money with MWC. 3)
Pride Thinking they are to good for the MWC. These are three things the LDS
church teaches that if we follow will lead to a great fall. BYU I think you
headed for a grerat fall.
Whatever you say Dig Dug... I grew up a USC fan. When I joined the church it was
a no brainer for me to start rooting for the Y. Why? Because my
loyalty for the church trumps my sports loyalty.I have other convert
friends who don't root for the Y but they don't hate them.Don't put
words in my mouth. I know I put the mirror in front of you and you don't like
what you see but don't think that I am saying you have to be an ardent Y fan if
you are LDS. What I don't understand is the mocking and derision
towards the Y by certain LDS fan.Comments like mine cut to the very
center and I am not surprised that the guilty would take something like that and
allow hatred for the Y to form. It's personal isn't it?When you have
a testimony of the church, there should not be any hatred for anything that
comes from it.
@wer "I don't understand how the state of the art TV capability is
HD. The BYU TV channel I receive on cable in not high definition."The channel is capable of being broadcast in HD, but only if the programs that
are being shown were filmed in HD. Also, broadcasting in HD costs more, so a
lot of channels only broadcast certain things in HD that have a high
UteFan-Who cares if one of the reasons for this is about money?Is that bad? What are you trying to accomplish by making that
statement?Do you think BYU is stupid? That they won't take into
account financials when they make decisions? What is wrong with
doing that? LDS people are taught to be prudent and to look for ways to prosper.
Why is that bad?
@Buzzyour stand up comedy was funny at first, now its just old. Its
not funny. we get it, you are making fun of zealots. But please, just cut it
out. Its getting old.
greed, Greed, GREED, pride and jealousy are the overwhelming reasons why Utah
decided to move to the PAC 10.Now, Utah fans are projecting their
own insecurities onto BYU, when the primary motivation for BYU going independent
is exposure for BYU sports to help fulfill the mission of the church.Bronco has been consistent in his statements that winning football games is
only 4th or 5th on his list of priorities in building the BYU football program.
Friday night firesides before every BYU football game, home or away, are proof
that this isn't just lip service. Community service projects are another one of
Broncos' initiatives to get his players involved in service.If the
MWC is hindering, rather than expanding, exposure to BYU's athletic programs,
then it's time for a change.
I'm laughing my can off at the hilarious ignorance and bias so many here are so
willing to put on full display. "independence is stupid.independence means no bowl games (no BCS, No Vagus nor any other bowl games),
less paid exposure (BYU TV would be great for reruns but would it result in
better exposure, no), less money overall (how many games will ESPN Broadcast and
at what times?"You're in Bizarro land! Every assertion made above is
so completely backwards that the only explanation I can see is that it must be a
Ute fan making them. :-)"the real reasons are 1)Jealousy, (Utah
moving to the PAC-10) 2)Greed not enough money with MWC. 3) Pride Thinking they
are to good for the MWC."What a hoot! This is just risible
entertainment, even in its cynical bigotry.Thanks for the laughs,
guys - I'm still chuckling.
Buzz,I am sorry for making you "cringe."I occasionally
get "preachy," and sometimes am not very sublte in the process. But are you
really telling me you haven't noticed similar tendencies among your fellow
churchmembers in your 20-years of membership? If not, tell me where you live so
I can move into your ward!"Mocking the Church" and joking about
cultural tendencies and shortcomings - many of which I also have - are different
things.You may not believe it, but I don't have any "hatred" in my
heart toward BYU - I got my undergraduate degree there. But like others have
said more eloquently, I'm not convinced that BYU athletics puts our best foot
forward. The players and coaches, with rare exception, model good sportsmanship
and maturity. But passionate fans (yes, even Utah fans like me) need to do a
better job of following their examples.Did I mention that I tend to
get preachy sometimes?
Dick, this is a great article and hits the nail right on the head. As much
as I love sports, BYU & Jazz, the only real important goal is exposure to the
message of the Restored Gospel. Buzz: Good comments.TheSpiker: Good
comments.livestrong: Good comments.Bugoff: Don't want to leave you
out, Good comments.Actually there are alot of people's comments on here
that are very good. It is good to see so many with positive comments and who can
see and understand what is most important and what is really going on here.The negative comments are mostly from those who can't stand that BYU might be
doing something positive and rewarding and they hate BYU's athletics and want to
see them fail or suffer. Mostly Ute fans have been gloating, about going to the
PAC 10/12 and don't like that BYU may be doing something to take the limelight
away from their move.The work will go forward and anything that can help
it will be used to promote the message of the Restored Gospel. That is the
bottom line. And the only thing that is really important.
Will S., Why muck up BYUTV, because how much of Iris or Crafts can you take. I
rewatch the classic games much more than I watch The Work and the Glory.I
would like to see all of the volleyball games and the girls soccer(hair
pulling).I graduated 30 years ago and my children have also
graduated from BYU and we live in Texas. I like to record and rewatch conference
and the Spoken Word, but other than that, BYU Sports seems to be the most
watched TV in my house.I am a season ticket holder and make at least two
games evry year. We will fill up the schedule. TxA&M would be happy to add us to
their schedule.Next year, we will beat Texas again. I like the idea of a
Jerry Bowl. Don't you think Oklahoma would like revenge? Utes will settle for
Las Vegas.Go Pitt!
Great article. Go Cougars!
Buzz...Buzz...thanks for not wrapping yourself up in the flag of exposure and
admitting it is about the money. Nothing wrong with that! However, if there's
nothing wrong with it then why take umbrage? Glad to see that you and I agree
and that IS about the money! I just find it difficult to argue that
two birds in the bush are worth more than a bird in the hand, but that is
seemingly what folks like you are being asked to believe!
Captain LThanks for your comments.Although the security
of staying in a conference, and being in an AQ conference would be even better,
neither of those options seems imminent for BYU.Sure BYU could stand
pat and hope that the MWC becomes a provisional AQ conference in 2013 and BYU
could hope that the MWC would negotiate a decent television contract for 2016,
but the chances of that happening are slim.BYU has the means to get
greater exposure, get greater income, and reclaim control of its own brand now,
so why wait?The upside is huge. The downside is a lot more work for
Holmoe to complete a 12-game schedule. So BYU hires a couple more assistants to
work full-time on BYU football scheduling issues; problem solved.
Ute'95-Yes I have noticed the same tendencies among my brothers and
sisters no matter where I am and you make a good point. Perhaps that is another
discussion for another day?I get that we are not perfect but we are
still able to follow certain criteria quite perfectly. For example, I have not
drank alcohol since I made the decision to stop after I became a member of the
church. Yes my example is much more substantial than rooting for a
sports team but my take goes beyond that. I don't see how any LDS member can
hate anything that comes from the church. Maybe I called it wrong with you but
you know there are many who are guilty. I appreciate your comments
though. I am also guilty of being preachy... it's the convert in me. My non-LDS
friends remind me of that all the time. @Big Ben- No one is telling
you to read my comments. Take action and just ignore them but I will be silenced
because you think my comments are "old." Whatever that means.
Whoa! Hatred for the Y? Now you're putting words in my mouth. I have nothing of
the sort. I have a daughter attending the Y as we speak! I think this whole
hatred thing needs to be toned down. The rivalry has gotten way out of hand, and
I can't help but be less than proud of behavior I've seen from both sides.Why do sports have to determine who or where I am spiritually? Why does
the Y or U football team matter to you (or me) regarding religion? I think you
are extremely overstepping the bounds of what is important here!Again, very harsh judgments and hatred coming from you for something that
frankly, isn't that important! Sure it's fun, but lets not make college football
something more than it is (this isn't the South after all where football =
religion). Following your logic, I guess my stake president, old
mission president, Elder Wirthlin, Pres. Monson et al aren't very good members
of the church because the route for Utah. How silly! Again, be careful about
making hurtful, silly statements over something as trivial as this.
Come on Dick, exposure is ultimately about money as it will lead to money. Even
if exposure is about spreading the word about the church via BYU football which
leads to more converts it about the money (through tithing). Or most likely it
is about the direct income that comes to BYU through exposure and TV dollars.
I take umbrage of the fact that I keep hearing Ute fans bring money up as if
there is a problem with it.I have yet to hear anyone tell me why it
is so bad.Also let me emphasize that while money is PART of the
reason it is not the MAIN reason. It just helps it along.Help me
understand your bird analogy... sorry sometimes I don't read things too easily.
Until we know all the facts, most of this is just speculation.Yes,
there are more BYU fans outside of Utah than there are Ute fans.Yes,
BYU fans want to see their games.Yes, BYU wants sports writers to
see their games.No, BYU's top priority is not money.No,
BYU does not think it is Notre Dame.BYU has a lot to offer and
sitting in the MWC on a network with very limited distribution does not cut it.
BYU thought the MTN would be better than it is. Part of the failure is the
requirement to evenly split exposure. Who really wants to see Wyoming play New
Mexico? BYU has had incredible ratings on ESPN. With ESPN's help, BYU can get
what it tried to get in the MWC.Ute Fans - Please remember your log
in name is posted above your comments before you type something saying you are a
BYU fan. Just because you have football "tradition" that dates back to about
2004, don't forget what led to your invite to the PAC 10. If you are now so
much better, avoid comments you could not say before you joined a BCS
Also, my first point in commenting here before taken aside... I certainly hope
fiscal matters were considered. Making things self-sufficient and independent
(!) are generally what the church is about. Certainly they can't do worse with
TV money than the MWC currently offers, with any luck whatsoever the situation
ought to improve.I do, however, feel bad for the other student
athletes that are powerless (from the Y and all the MWC/WAC schools caught up in
this) that could have a dramatic change in their lives. Good luck to all of
them, hopefully their needs are considered in all of this and we don't have BYU
tack vs. ITT tech!
Buzz - You are an exceptionally wise man.Don't let the
(supposedly) LDS BYU-bashers get under your skin because you are absolutely 100%
correct. Massive change is coming. Both for BYU football and for those of whom
you speak.Go BYU!
Just listen to the national sports guys. Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, Jim Rome.
They all said what most people know: BYU football is just not as relevant as
BYU thinks it is. Plain and simple.There's a reason they're thinking of
going independent: they're not getting very much money and they're not wanted
in a BCS conference. If they're as great as their fans think they are,
why aren't they getting special concessions from the MWC? Why aren't the Big 12
jumping at the chance to take them?You can call Utah greedy all you
want for leaving. BYU would have done it in a heart beat, and this whole issue
just proves that. The difference is that Utah knows where they stand. And
fortunately for them, over the past decade, they were good enough, relevant
enough, to merit an invite to a league that will pay them $18 million a year in
TV revenue. The most BYU is hoping to get from a deal as an independent is $4
million (reported by ESPN).Killing your non-football sports by
putting them in the WCC isn't worth $4M.
Here's my $.02...I build LDS churches and have been doing it for the
last 17 years. I'm not employed by the LDS church so this is, I think, a fair
opinion of what it's like to be around the church and/or it's organization even
with something as unassuming as construction. It may not be apparent if you
aren't involved with it everyday, but just BEING around the LDS church or it's
organization has a way of triggering something inside an individuals soul that
makes some of them want to know more about the church. I think the church calls
these folks "honest in heart". Even in construction, I've seen folks get taught
and baptized simply by starting off working ON a church through construction.
If BYU can TRULY get more exposure through going independent,
there's no doubt in my mind that it can be a missionary tool. I would bet "the
farm" on it. I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it firsthand from what I
do. God moves in mysterious ways. If conversion can work through something like
construction, I know it will through going independent.
Eagle, your wrong, it's not about money/tithing. It is easy to see your mindset.
It is amussing to see how so many people can't see the bottom line. Bringing the
knowledge of the Restored Gospel to everyone is the bottom line. To think that
bringing people into the church to obtain tithing as you were advacating is the
reason they want exposure is incorrect. Gods purpose is to bring to pass the
imortality and eternal life of man. Worldly things, money etc aren't real
important and are only necessary to coexist in the world.
Buzz told it like it is. He's exactly right. LDS people who hate BYU are
completely mystifying. No one is asking all Mormons to be BYU fans,
but there's no reason to hate what BYU represents and stands for, especially if
you are LDS. By the anti-BYU comments from LDS Utes on every BYU
sports article it gets harder and harder to believe that LDS Utes back the
Church, since it is the Church that backs BYU and BYU's policies after all. For
example, the BYU honor code is backed by Church leaders, so if you are LDS and
you have a problem with the Church being represented by BYU, then that's your
problem, and your opinion is opposite the Church's.I'm no fan of
Utah, but being LDS I like that there are LDS Utes and I admire them for who
they are and how they try to live by the values we all embrace--when they are
trying to live those standards--and aren't hating others who are also just
trying to live by standards.BYU & LDS must represent the Church well
& all else is secondary to that.
It's very hard to respond to people like Buzz and Just Truth. The only way I can
describe your thoughts are as immature. In terms of both the real world, and
spiritually, your views are immature. Let's just say that yes, all
LDS members would hope that BYU students represent the church in the best way
possible. But the difference is in how people view the representation that those
students are actually giving.
RE: Just TruthAgreed. Hatred of anything is hardly ever justifiable;
especially when it comes to college sports.I had a neighbor whose
family was raped, beaten, and beheaded in front of him and his little sister in
Africa, and he does not hate the people who did that. Comparatively, how could
any of us hate one another? (especially over football?)Certainly
there are those that use anything to make fun of the church; Any anti-LDS person
can find any reason to attack the church, with our without sports. Nonetheless,
lets not confuse this with someone simply cheering for an athletic team other
than than Y.More than once I had fellow ward members complain about
me sporting a Utah Alumni license plate and cheering for Utah. I even had one
member ask that I be released from the high council since I was not an "ardent Y
fan." Wow, I wasn't quite sure how to react to that one except to laugh!I want to at least point out that some of my grievances against some of
the Y's fans are justified. Does this mean I secretly hate the church? Of course
Lou Holtz said it best about BYU wanting to go independant...Schools want to
play Notre Dame...nobody wants to play BYU!
Mr. Harmon,You article provides perfect insight into the priceless,
honorable motivations driving this quest.It's an exciting time to be
Sorry superute, BYU really doesn't care how relevant you or Dan
Patrick or any other talking head "thinks" BYU is.Utah fans
criticizing BYU's plans to go independent are just demonstrating how insecure
they really are. You obviously don't understand that money is only a
very small part of the reason BYU is considering going independent.ALL of BYU's sports would be benefit from increased exposure by ridding BYU of
the awful MWC television contract and regaining control of BYU's own brand.BYU really doesn't care whether you or any of the other BYU haters ever
watch another BYU sporting event, because this isn't about you or the U. It's
about the millions of BYU fans and others who do find BYU sports interesting to
Im curious? Is there such thing as a non Mormon BYU fan? I'm a Utah
fan but don't mind watching BYU football because they have a quality product
year in and year out. But I have to say never once was my interest peaked in the
"message" the church is trying communicate to the world at large by watching
their games.Guys it's just football it's not a holy crusade.
It's time to bring sports back to BYU-Idaho and give them their name back
Ragnar Danneskjold Sounds to me like you're throwing the vast
majority of good, faithful, LDS BYU students under the bus because of the poor
example of a few.Which is exactly what many good, faithful,
BYU-hating LDS members do.It's fine to have a rivalry. To cheer for,
and be proud of, and maybe even a little boastful your own team, within
reason.But to hate an entire institution because you don't like
seeing your favorite sports team lose to them is ridiculous.Max was
both right, and wrong.Right, in that many Utah fans are classless
and are more BYU haters than they are Utah fans.Wrong, in that he
shouldn't have judged an entire institution based on the boorish behavior of a
minority of Utah fans.The same goes for classless BYU fans, although
I've never run into any BYU fans who are simply Utah haters.
Lou Holtz saying that "teams want to play Notre Dame, but no one wants to play
BYU" is a positively unbiased and revelatory comment. Who did he coach for so
many years --- and who did the Y beat when he coached them? That
being said, we are much smaller image wise then we think we are, but that can be
said of 99% of all institutions when juxtaposing the ardency of their fans. We
are who we are.Tithing does not contribute one $ to BYU athletics
--- so dismiss that notion.And yes, it is all about exposure, image,
marketing and missionary work. Our mission is to carry the message of the
restored work to every nation (people), what they do with it is up to them. If
they, like Buzz, convert -- wonderful, if they don't that's okay too. At least
they exercised choice.
Amen Real Bass!I still have my Rick's t-shirts (though they are
pretty worn out now). I would love to see that program back up there. That was a
class act, nothing prominent on the national stage, but I did enjoy their
athletics back in the day; not to mention a more original name!
RE: Ibleedcrimson. Believe it or not, I have met a few non-LDS Y
fans. They are mostly relics from the 80's who latched on to the only local team
worth any effort to cheer for from the 80's; can't blame them there, I was a big
Y fan back then myself.However, in terms of these persons relating
football and the church's message, hardly. I'm sure it helps get some name
recognition to people who only pay attention to sports, maybe a nice ice breaker
for the missionaries (not for me in South America though). I do wonder about the
preaching nature of the program. I haven't been able to hammer that one out
myself.Is there anyone who could share with us some examples of
missionary work through Y athletics? Perhaps some non-LDS recruits were
converted? Not sure, please someone fill me in if you can; Thank you!
Re DigDug: Your right President Monson and many of the brethren root for both
the Utes and the Cougars but they don't criticise or find fault or be negative
about either school, that is the difference. What Buzz is saying and I agree is
how can good active LDS members be so negative and critical of BYU (the churches
school), they should root for them & want the best for them. There are self
righteous fans but that is not the University or the Church and comments should
be towards those fans and not towards BYU and their sports programs.I hope
and want the best for the University of Utah but I have a hard time with many of
the Ute fans who are so negative, critical and demeaning of BYU. That is not the
Universities doings, it is the fans and like I said it is the fans I have a
RE: CaptainGreat, at least I don't want people thinking (which has
been the case unfortunately) that to route for the U is to forfeit all belief in
the church. It is regrettable that such a loud, obnoxious group has
seem to taken hold of what used to be a very enjoyable rivalry. As I have
already recounted, I have had some ridiculous experiences with zealous Y fans
that have frankly embarrassed me in front of some non-LDS friends and family.
Like you, I try and explain to them to please not judge the whole
organization by a thoughtless few. It is very easy and tempting to do, but not
the right thing to do. I wouldn't go so far to point the finger and
generalize by saying I have a problem with "the fans." I (and hopefully you too)
have a problem with some of the fans that create all of this nonsense hatred.
I am fighting to wrest the rivalry back into the moderates control
(for our own enjoyment). Hopefully, both sides can get over themselves and find
a weekend to play.
Captain:I am a Utah transplant to CT. I cheer for the Y, but I have
to say most of the people (other than other Utah transplants which make up about
30% of our ward) are indifferent at best towards Y atheltics. Some of them have
children attending the Y, but even they aren't all that adament about Y
athletics, certainly not more so than their favorite teams (typically the shcool
they attended back in the day). Anyway, I think most of them would
scoff at the idea that supporting Y athletics is requisite of good membership.
Animosity towards the Y would be dumb, but I don't think most of them really
care if Y athletics succeeds or not. They certainly want to see the
church and missionary work progress (of course), but I don't think most of them
see college football as a major vehicle for that. Take my POV for
what it's worth. I've only lived out here for 6 years so my perspective may be
wrong, but that is generally the feeling I get. My LDS friends here in CT
haven't a care about today's news regarding independence.
East Coast Westerner: Your right to alot of people sports don't matter at all
and they could care less. That is fine, sports aren't really important they are
just entertainment. The point I was making was to those who love sports and
sports are a big part of their lives.My comments were more to the fact
that if you are a good LDS you should be positive and supportive of the churches
Re: Utah Fan2I only threw 2 people under the bus (and only in their views
on this subject). I also pointed out that some people don’t feel like all
of the students are representing the church well. This is a football message
board, and the comment is obviously geared towards football fans and a persons
right to dislike a fan of another school regardless of their religion. You
somehow translated this into “hat(ing) an entire institution”. You
then somehow think that citing an example that proves my point is a terrific
comeback. Your first sentence is a perfect example of the immature view I
was referencing. Someone says that not all BYU students represent the church as
well as we can all hope, and you say, “good, faithful, LDS BYU
students” are thrown under the bus. Your problem is simple. You cannot
separate the church from the students. If someone says that they don’t
like a student at BYU, somehow they are saying that the entire church is
mismanaged. Can you not see how immature that is?