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Sandstrom immigration bill may mean more uninsured drivers in Utah

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  • scambuster
    Aug. 13, 2010 7:06 p.m.

    How about sidelining this bill to await the outcomes of the Arizona law in the courts instead of plunging down the rat hole? I view this as a political grandstanding and posturing by Sandstrom. He must have his eyes set on a bigger prize.

  • UtahVoter
    Aug. 13, 2010 7:15 p.m.

    Good for Bramble for speaking out about this one!

    The Utah Law regarding driving cards helps keep us safe; the proposed Sandstrom law pushing law enforcement to try and find those who might be breaking some of the controversial immigration laws will make us less safe.

    The driving card privileges are motivated by common sense, decency, and public safety.

    The immigration bill is motivated by racism, inaccurate claims (ie that so-called illegals commit violent crimes at a higher rate than 'legals'), and denigrates public safety.

    Furthermore, as the SLC police chief has correctly noted, it makes hispanics in a community less likely to co-operate with police in actually prosecuting Utah state crimes they may have witnessed out of fear that the local police officers will now be obligated to try to moonlight as ICE officers.

  • Deportation Glitch Lady
    Aug. 13, 2010 7:24 p.m.

    The Privilege Card was destined for profiling. The net has been cast and now it should be easy to catch the targets. It was the initial motive of the cards to target the Latinos. It is not surprising that all of the Privilege drivers will now face deportation.

    It is the same method that is used or will be used to create state lists that will later be used to deal with target populations. Whether or not this is the right thing to do is not so much an issue as it is that it exposes racism roots that run deep in Utah and at least its ambassadors are both God-fearing and Law-abiding citizens. How cynical!

  • CJ
    Aug. 13, 2010 8:27 p.m.

    Send them home, then we don't have to worry about them or their silly enabling privilege cards they shouldn't have to begin with.

  • attentive
    Aug. 13, 2010 9:32 p.m.

    I don't know how anyone could think that an illegal immigrant having a driver privilege card could keep anyone who is legal safe. Just the opposite. If they don't have insurance and have broken the law in the first place in order to be living in the U.S., there isn't anything in their actions to support the thought that they are safer with driver privilege cards OR driver licenses. I hope Sandstrom stays his course and stands up for the law. People without insurance, breaking the law are NOT helping ANYone out. Not me, not you, not themselves in the long run.

  • Proud to be American
    Aug. 13, 2010 10:22 p.m.

    What a dumb article. If this bill passes, you won't need to worry about illegals having cards or insurance. They will mass deport themselves in huge numbers. I can't wait until July 1, 2011.

    Get the illegals out of my country!

  • Chase
    Aug. 14, 2010 12:04 a.m.

    Only in america ares the tax paying citizens made to be Tyrants and oppressors; racists!

    Why don't you ask us if we are racist? We're not. We're just tired of your back door, freeloading classroom and emergency room clogging, identity stealing crap. And the illegals are the victims. How dishonest can you get?!

    Here is the truth. When times get tough the people are unwilling to put up with cheaters. Illegals are not victims and they have no rights from a constitution from a foreign country. You want in? Come through the front door and we'll welcome you.

  • J. Adams
    Aug. 14, 2010 12:11 a.m.

    Come on Dennis! How one sided is your approach to this issue? Don't you see that your reporting only adds fuel to the anti-illegal alien cause when you write slanted articles like this? When I travel to foriegn countries I am not issued a foriegn driving priveledge card, I use my American liscense and my insurance to drive. If it is illegal for me to drive in a particular country I don't drive. It's called obeying the law.

  • The NIT
    Aug. 14, 2010 1:02 a.m.

    To the "deportation glitch lady" - give it up - this issue is not about Latinos for the vast majority of Utahns. I know it's not a factor for me. This has nothing to do with origin of country. It has everything to do with law and order and providing some deference to those who came here legally - it would be the same story and the same feelings if most of the illegals were Irish.

  • anti-liar
    Aug. 14, 2010 2:33 a.m.

    Less likely to get insurance?

    All the more reason to deport them.

  • buttercup
    Aug. 14, 2010 3:11 a.m.

    I am a native Utahan and I am compassion incarnate. I want every child in the world to grow up with a fighting chance in life. I want every child to get the very best education, to earn a great living, and to be secure in their property and safe in their homes.

    Including my own children.

    Utah law makers don't seem to agree with me. They seem to think it's a good idea to allow foreign criminals to enter my neighborhoods and take my jobs and steal my things. They think it's a good idea to grant free education to these criminals but make me pay for it, cheating my own kids of their chances. They think it's a good idea to give free health care to these criminals but make me pay for it and make my kids wait longer at hospitals.

    Utah lawmakers should not be allowed to be quite so compassionate with my money and my children's future. I'm perfectly capable of using my money, thank you very much.

  • My2Cents
    Aug. 14, 2010 4:34 a.m.

    This article has no truth to it. Does anyone really believe these illegals driving really carry any insurance? Why should they pay and vehicle insurance when they don't have to and can't be forced to? More uninsured drivers? Not really, it would mean fewer uninsured drivers.

    Every aspect of their driving is criminal with unregistered or stolen vehicles with stolen license plates and never following any of the safety and emissions laws. These illegal aliens have so much contempt for America and our laws they feel immune to ANY of them. These illegal foreign nationals break a law the first thing they do is cry racism like it was an invisibility blanket.

    If illegals are caught or detained for a crime, they are soon released and disappear in their underground society of foreign nationals. They have multiple AKA's and identities for various reasons, welfare, jobs, tax evasion, and no one can prove different. Data and facts about illegals is nothing but fictitious. All the facts they quote, including Yapais, is about Mexican american citizens.

  • RichardB
    Aug. 14, 2010 7:00 a.m.

    Of the three accidents that I know of, involving people here illegally, none had insurance.

    It's time the state stop the aiding and abetting criminals. How many other states give out drivers privileged cards? The majority of states get by without them, so can Utah.

    It's time to stop kowtowing to the Insurance companies.

  • ReasonableRepublican
    Aug. 14, 2010 7:25 a.m.

    Re: Attentive: What if someone without insurance hits you? You will be on your own for your car and medical repairs. It could bankrupt you. But if they had insurance, their insurance would pay for that for you. Anyone who thinks that Sandstrom's proposal would lead to mass deportation doesn't understand why immigrants are here. They come from severe poverty and make more money working for pennies here than pesos. There is no easy fix. Create a massive guest worker program and border security program and deal with the people here. Comprehensive reform is the only way to deal with all the causes.

  • Chase
    Aug. 14, 2010 7:38 a.m.

    To our friend "j Adams"

    Unless you are implying in your scenario that you are fleeing your
    corrupt country to find a better life, doing it through the back door,
    stealing the identity of a host country tax paying resident, using their
    ERs to have your anchor baby, and then putting that baby(s) in their
    school system to over-crowd the classrooms - - then we're not talking about the same situation that a majority of Americans are mad about. Your scenario is a dreamscape that is only imagined by the naive.

    This is not about parties, presidents, or blame. This is about the law, and this is about "we, the people, want it fixed
    now!"

    So spare us with your patronization of the "poor" illegals who want the
    tax payers to sponsor non-assimilation into our country.

    The tax payers are victims. Our kids in crowded classrooms are
    victims. Paying clients waiting in crowded hospitals are victims.
    Intruders are not victims! Trespassers are not victims! Thieves are not victims!

    Come, let us reason together. Madness is putting the supposed rights
    and entitlements of illegal foreigners, who account for actual theft
    and damage, above those of our fellow countrymen.

  • I am Mathman
    Aug. 14, 2010 8:01 a.m.

    To Proud to be American. If this bill passes, the driving privilege will not result in a mass exodus by illegal aliens. They will still risk staying here, but will drive without licenses and insurance. Pretty much what happens in CA and AZ right now. This bill needed more bite in the main reason the illegal aliens are here. Some business owner is hiring them. We also need harsher fines and penalties on companies that knowingly hire illegals. I would start with the construction companies. If they are ran the way my grandpa did it in Texas 30 years ago, then the workers are paid in cash.

  • DN Subscriber
    Aug. 14, 2010 8:36 a.m.

    Another bogus claimi trying to distract us from the very core of the issue.

    People are breaking the law to get here, and "driver privilege cards" only facilitate illegal behavior. Eliminating them is a good idea. We don't provide blank checks to make it easier for bank robbers, so why give licenses, err "privilege cards" to people who are breaking other laws?

    If an illegal is not in the country we don't have to worry about them having insurance.

  • Chase
    Aug. 14, 2010 8:40 a.m.

    Reasonable Republican
    "Anyone who thinks that Sandstrom's proposal would lead to mass deportation doesn't understand why immigrants are here."

    You don't know ANY illegals do you? Naturally you wouldn't know that they send their money home to their immediate and extended family members. They send whatever they get Out. Of. The. Country.

    They bring their poverty with them and they send our economy's money out of the country.

    Is their plight regrettable? OF COURSE! Just because law abiding citizens want the law enforced, our borders secured, and our language and culture preserved does not mean they "HATE" or are "RACIST". That would be judgmental to assume as much.

    Just don't be naive about what illegals do and don't do. What few "good" illegals do or don't do does not justify the damage the "bad" illegals are doing. Even the "good" illegals are here illegally.

    It's stealing and it's wrong. Not one of you would put up with this garbage from your own kid (I hope) - yet illegals get a pass. Victims!

  • RichardB
    Aug. 14, 2010 8:51 a.m.

    re: ReasonableRepublican

    Utah is a no fault insurance state. When you are in an accident, your company pays to fix your car. The insurance angle is just a scam to scare people into allowing privilege cards.

    Other states get buy without it.

  • Beam Me Up Scotty
    Aug. 14, 2010 9:45 a.m.

    As a licensed insurance agent, I write auto insurance policies for immigrants on a daily basis. If they do not have a driving privilege card then they can start a policy as long as they have a foreign drivers license. I don't see that the passage of this bill will materially affect the number of uninsured motorist in Utah. I can on the other hand identify many legal citizens who let their policies lapse on a regular basis who are on the road increasing the cost of everyone else's insurance just to protect ourselves.

  • RShackleford
    Aug. 14, 2010 9:56 a.m.

    Insurance will not stop Illegal aliens from driving drunk. there have been many Utah citizens killed by illegal Aliens driving drunk. They are more than 2.5 times more likely to drive drunk than legal immigrants or citizens (google "Focal Point: Crossing the Line", and watch the Video)

    If they are not here they will continue to kill on our Hi Ways.

    I would also like to see an amendment in this bill that would make it legal for anyone injured (or a family member of those killed) to be able to sue in civil court for damages, those that have knowingly enabled the Illegal alien to be in this country. This would include employers and landlords (and the Federal Gov....and/or those enablers like LaRaza or Tony Yappias)

  • TRUTH
    Aug. 14, 2010 9:59 a.m.

    C'mon Dnews.....40k uninsured because of Sandstrom?

    Get real...how about 40k illegal criminals on the road without insurance because Obama won't enforce the border....

    About Time we as a state addressed this illegal criminal issue......

    How about we throw sandstrom a tickertape parade...he is an absolute Hero!

  • SLars
    Aug. 14, 2010 10:14 a.m.

    People here legally are given drivers licenses, so are people here on visas and current guest worker passes.

    I would like Mr. Bramble to explain his position on drivers privileged cards being given to people here legally.

    If a person is here legally, they get a regular license.

  • Older Reader
    Aug. 14, 2010 10:29 a.m.

    Progressive whiners ignore the fact that ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL! If anyone drives without insurane they are breaking the law. If they speed they are breaking the law. If these illegals would follow the law and sty clean they would not be stopped.

  • Clifton Palmer McLendon
    Aug. 14, 2010 11:08 a.m.

    @UtahVoter
    @Deportation Glitch Lady

    You use the word “racism” and you don’t even know the proper meaning of it.

    RACISM: The assumption that psychocultural traits and capacities are determined by biological race and that races differ decisively from one another which is usually coupled with a belief in the inherent superiority of a particular race and its right to domination over others. [definition taken from Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged (Chicago: Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc.; 1981)]

    Nothing in Mr. Sandstrom’s bill smacks of any of that.

  • Clifton Palmer McLendon
    Aug. 14, 2010 11:14 a.m.

    @scambuster

    According to the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution, the Federal government has only those powers specifically granted to it by the Constitution.

    The Constitution does not give any branch of the Federal government the power to tell any State how to handle crime and punishment in that State, therefore, no Federal official -- including a Federal judge -- has anything to say about Arizona's immigration law.

  • Older Reader
    Aug. 14, 2010 11:59 a.m.

    Progressive whiners ignore the fact that ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL! If anyone drives without insurane they are breaking the law. If they speed they are breaking the law. If these illegals would follow the law and sty clean they would not be stopped.

  • Chris B
    Aug. 14, 2010 12:13 p.m.

    Hey proud american, thanks for being a true american. My feelings exactly. Amazing how the liberals always turn the criminals into the victims

  • fantazius
    Aug. 14, 2010 12:32 p.m.

    driving without insurance is another crime in addition the federal crime of being in the U.S without inspection and documentation, which is punishable by 6months in prison and a $5,00.00 fine for a first offense.

    We do not need nor want reform of our immigration laws, nor do we need to tolerate racist special interst groups organizing, aiding and abbeting those who are in our country illegaly and violating serious felonies as I.D theft, tax evasion document and welfare fraud, fraud, fraud, all that we need is enforcement and prosecution of those on our soil illegaly and those who support their illegal activities.

  • fantazius
    Aug. 14, 2010 2:49 p.m.

    scambuster | 7:06 p.m. Aug. 13, 2010

    Utahalready sidelined a bill for more than a year concerning/involving our local law agencies involvement, to see what the feds would do. Nothing absolutly nothing and the Mexican government knows this.
    REVANCHISM!!!

    Many of us 37% of the low paying American laborers in the United States of America have been waiting for 25 years for the feds to act on provisions of Ronald Reagans bill (1985), which he later said was his single biggest blunder of his political carreer, that gave amnesty and a path to citizenship to 6 million people that were working in the U.S illegally, and included a provision that it would be a federal offence for any employer to hire ANYONE that was in this country illegal and was not legally allowed to work in this country. NOTHING

    How much longer would you expect the abused, impoverished, low wage earning American laborers to wait for enforcement?

  • fantazius
    Aug. 14, 2010 2:58 p.m.

    How much longer would you expect the abused American laborers to wait for enforcement?

    The only comprehensive immigration policy reform that is needed should be STRICT enforcement of current law, such as Mexico has and is spelled out in their constitution, with such excerpts as:

    No person shall hire a foreign worker over a Mexican worker, the job will always go first to an Mexican.

    Any Mexican citizen who knows of a foriegner working illegally in Mexico, should report that person and the employer to the proper authorities for prosecution.

  • Maverick
    Aug. 14, 2010 3:48 p.m.

    This is the right decision. Thank you very much for serving the majority and doing the will of the people while in public office. I for one have been hit by an illegal alien without insurance. If you are illegal you are breaking the law and my tax dollars should not be spent to support you nor should my money be spent to fix my car because of you. Please obtain legal status like my good friend from Italy just did. Thanks!

  • YouAreKidding
    Aug. 14, 2010 4:13 p.m.

    Here's an idea...

    1) Eliminate the driving privilege card,
    2) Require all drivers license applicants to provide proof of US/Utah citizenship to obtain a drivers license,
    3) Require ANY individual pulled over for a motor vehicle offense to provide proof of citizenship (the drivers license will do that if #1 and #2 above are implemented), and
    3) Make a $50,000 fine PER EMPLOYEE (for hiring someone illegal in the first place) and $1,000 fine PER EMPLOYEE PER DAY to knowingly hire an illegal alien.

    Do that and the illegal alien problem in Utah will be permanently solved.

    Now, that wasn't so difficult, was it? It didn't require thousands of wasted hours of the legislature's time, it didn't require a fence, and it doesn't require any racial profiling. But, it will get the job done 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

  • Emophiliac
    Aug. 14, 2010 4:53 p.m.

    I would like to see some statistics on the number of people out there with driving privilege cards, vs the number of accidents that involve uninsured drivers and those with and without driving privilege cards. If the number of uninsured drivers out there is still quite high, then that doesn't seem to have solved anything.

  • tenx
    Aug. 14, 2010 6:03 p.m.

    @youarekidding. Good ideas. I agree. Common sense, which most in Washington do not have.

  • Carson
    Aug. 14, 2010 7:40 p.m.

    Keep an on on the legislators that support the illegals in any way and lets remove them from office...How mad do we have to get before we remove them? Show them with your vote that we've had enough!

  • MapleDon
    Aug. 14, 2010 10:24 p.m.

    Thank goodness for people like Sandstrom who don't bend to the wind of political correctness.

    Carson, I also suggest that people take note of who it is issuing the pro-illegal immigration propaganda, like say Deseret Media.

  • CWEB
    Aug. 14, 2010 10:49 p.m.

    All of you people in Utah, Especially the politicians... have rolled out the red carpet for these mostly wonderful people.

    You should feel ashamed at the way you are acting, and the knee-jerk, copy-cat mentality that is spurring this mean and hateful response the wonderful Hispanic community as a whole! I am ashamed of the LDS people who show no compassion...

    Especially Mr. Sandstrom. He is only using this issue to vie for higher political gain in the future.

    Shameful, all of you. For 20+ years Utah has invited these immigrants. You have rolled out the red carpet, made incentives and offered a helping hand.

    As soon as life gets a little rough, (not Hispanics fault) you yank the rug out from under the youth, the families and the neighbors you all have. This sickens me!

    Rethink your position, and be kind and compassionate in your actions! Taking away driving and opportunity, especially for the thousands of good Hispanic YOUTH in our area is criminal, and I know there is a law, but Christ was not to pick fruit of the field and eat on the Sabbath -- yet HE "Did".

    I'm praying for the Hispanics!

  • anti-liar
    Aug. 15, 2010 3:39 a.m.

    @ CWEB: "For 20+ years Utah has invited these immigrants."


    NO UTAH DID NOT invite these immigrants. Some rogue, America back-stabbing businessmen did -- NOT Utah!

  • Larry
    Aug. 15, 2010 6:11 a.m.

    Illegals is the least of our Problems.
    Our Law Makers is our biggest problem.
    Attend Court Monday at 9 AM, Learn what is going on.
    You should be able to hear every word.
    Watch how the Court is run, There is Rules for running the Court not being followed.
    Innocent? The Court is not in your favor.

  • SLars
    Aug. 15, 2010 6:31 a.m.

    I went to the state website, it said those qualifying for drivers privileged cards are "Individuals who are unable to establish legal/lawful presence and who are ineligible for a US Social Security Number."

    A visa, guest worker etc. has legal lawful pretense, however many just drive using their country of origins license.

    Other states don't need it, neither does Utah.

    Will this article go into the immigration section also? It's getting a little selective what goes in there, doesn't it?

  • hpr
    Aug. 16, 2010 5:09 p.m.

    CWEB, these people were not invited by the majority of the citizens. They were invited by many religions to come and have a better life. Most were not invited by rogue businessmen either , anti-liar. Many of the businesses are not aware that their employees are illegal. They show up with either a social security number or card and become employed. Unless they do e-verify, which is not required if you are not doing government business, they do not know these individuals have fake ID and SS#. The ones who do definitely need to be punished just like the illegal does. But if they are not aware, how can you fault them. Their documents can be better than the real deal. There is already a law on the books that punishes companies that knowingly hire illegals. The state and feds need to enforce the laws we have and get even tougher on illegals. We are tired of paying for them.

  • hpr
    Aug. 16, 2010 5:15 p.m.

    CWEB, these people were not invited by the majority of the citizens. They were invited by many religions to come and have a better life. Most were not invited by rogue businessmen either , anti-liar. Many of the businesses are not aware that their employees are illegal. They show up with either a social security number or card and become employed. Unless they do e-verify, which is not required if you are not doing government business, they do not know these individuals have fake ID and SS#. The ones who do definitely need to be punished just like the illegal does. But if they are not aware, how can you fault them. Their documents can be better than the real deal. There is already a law on the books that punishes companies that knowingly hire illegals. The state and feds need to enforce the laws we have and get even tougher on illegals. We are tired of paying for them.

  • cc0623 Roosevelt, utah
    Feb. 1, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    I thought it was lame when the law passed allowing illegal aliens to get a drivers card. I hope Sandstroms bill gets passed! Illegals GO HOME!

  • cc0623 Roosevelt, utah
    Feb. 1, 2011 4:11 p.m.

    MY car insurance covers uninsured motorists.

  • positiverealist Salt Lake City, UT
    March 11, 2011 10:12 a.m.

    They won't mass deport themselves because in small towns in Mexico and Guatemala they only make about 3 to 5 dollars a day when the cost of living is much higher than that. I don't excuse them coming over the border without permission but I understand it. In La Libertad a small town in Guatemala people make $60 to $100 per month and the cost of living is over $500 per month so you need 5 people in your household working full time to make it. Many households live way under the poverty level, those that come here can make 15 to 20 times what they make at home and then they can send money back to their families. For them to self deport things have to get much worse for them here. Having them drive without insurance will move us further away from a solution. Enforcement only is not the answer, looking for reasonable solutions is the best plan. Unlawful Presence is only a Civil infraction not criminal so we can't go out and mass deport. We need to consider families, the economy and human rights for any plan we come up with.