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Dick Harmon: Independence could be BYU's best option

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  • 72ute
    July 30, 2010 10:50 p.m.

    Oh Dick,
    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

  • eagle
    July 30, 2010 11:00 p.m.

    The answer is yes especially with the U gone to the PAC-12.

  • owlmaster2
    July 30, 2010 11:21 p.m.

    Why don't they form the bYu Conference and just play the blue team against the white team each week????

    They could have volunteers from the stands participate in the games as the quarter back or perhaps a tight end to make it more interesting.

    Just throwing out some ideas for Tom to consider.

  • cougsrock
    July 30, 2010 11:23 p.m.

    72ute Jealous! Could you imagine the Ute's going independent? I'm laughing right now. BYU going Independent? Absolutely.

  • Jimmything
    July 30, 2010 11:27 p.m.

    Keep trying Dick. Keep trying.

  • Wes
    July 30, 2010 11:38 p.m.

    I didn't see a lot of clarification about the financial viability of BYU as an independent. Technically BYU sounded more than capable, but is it likely that many organizations or companies will spend a lot of money on BYU sports?
    As I recall some years ago, BYU had the Blue and White network. I'm reasonably certain that its demise was due to lack of money - not BYU athletic proficiency nor fan interest.
    There's the old saying that those who do not understand history are bound to repeat it.
    How much historical understanding is present?

  • RealityCheck
    July 30, 2010 11:48 p.m.

    Why all of the sudden is BYU panicking about its conference situation? Several months ago, everything was fine and dandy in the MWC, but as soon as Utah leaves for the PAC-10, all of the sudden BYU can't get out of the MWC fast enough. Articles like this were non-existent before Utah bolted. And when in the past has BYU had a press conference to discuss "the status of the athletic department?"

    This is all coming about because BYU administrators and fans cannot stand that Utah got something that they desperately wanted. This is a classic case of trying to keep up with the Jones's next door.

    And that, my friends, is your Reality Check.

  • Rock Of The Marne
    July 30, 2010 11:51 p.m.

    Cougsrock, why would a Ute fan be jealous when his team was invited to a better conference (something BYU has been hoping would happen for 30 plus years, yet never does)? BYU getting out of the mid-majors; I'm laughing right now. See ya little brother.

  • BYU 99
    July 30, 2010 11:56 p.m.

    I would love to see BYU go to the Big 12 but if they aren't going to get an invitation anytime soon the Cougars need to move on towards independence. I'd love to see them play other religious schools every year in football like Notre Dame, TCU, SMU, and in basketball Baylor, Georgetown, St. Mary's etc. Plus keep the in state rival games with Utah State and Utah. The Big 12 is making a mistake if they are not going to choose BYU. We may need to move on.

  • Duds
    July 31, 2010 12:15 a.m.

    @ Reality Check. You're right....to an extent. BYU and Utah was the MWC. It would be the same thing if BYU had bolted and if Utah stayed. They were the brothers joined at the hip. Both said they hated each other, but deep down w/o each other neither of them would be where they are. With Utah gone, sure there's envy, but it boils down to 2-3 teams holding up an entire conference. Once one corner of a foundation leaves, the whole building begins to shift, and Utah leaving was that shift. BYU is in a crumbling house that at the moment is causing panic. You can call it "keep up with the Jones", but its more of a car losing a wheel that's about to go out of control. Again, Utah would want out if BYU left....due to instability, not jealousy.

  • bigutefan
    July 31, 2010 12:19 a.m.

    Oh Cougars....your getting more and more pathetic by the second. Here is the real truth....NOBODY....repeat...NOBODY...wanted you to be apart of their BCS conference, that is not going to change with your ridiculous rules and backwards way of thinking. So why on earth do you continue to think you are better than you are......I truly wish you were quality enough to have come with the Utes to the Pac-10.....your making fools out of yourselves......smartin' up!

  • BlueSaint
    July 31, 2010 12:19 a.m.

    I've always believed that BYU would be much better off going Independent. BYU is unique!..with a fan base larger than the Pukes could ever dream of having, they are set for a big move. The PAC-NON settling for the pukes was the slap in the face they needed to wake up and take this program to where only BYU can do for themselves!....

    If you have the ability to go Independent, why not?...

  • Monkey Wrench
    July 31, 2010 12:20 a.m.

    Here's your "Reality Check."

    BYU has been working on this for "three years." They have know since the formation of the BCS that they were going to need to make changes. There is not a program in the country that can compete with the BCS schools long term without somehow coming close to them on the revenue end (except maybe a school like TCU with producing oil wells on campus).

    Utah knew it that's why they took the PAC offer. BYU knows it, Boise State knows it, and maybe most importantly law makers (Congress) knows it. Changes will come to FBS football - its a fact. The form those changes take will be interesting to watch but they will come. Schools across the country will need to make adjustments and prepare for what the future brings. Some may move to the FCS and others may drop football all together but if they want to compete at the highest level they will need to be in the revenue stream.

    So, "Reality Check" this is not an "all of a sudden" response to Utah's move it's a calculated strategy that is on going and will continue to playout.

  • junkgeek
    July 31, 2010 12:26 a.m.

    BYU going independent is step 1 to irrelevancy, and in a couple of decades, dropping football.

  • Wes
    July 31, 2010 12:29 a.m.

    One of the things that BYU may have created independently is a fan Rhorsach test. For those not familiar with the Rhorsach, this is a pyschological test in which everyone sees the same data, but the conclusions are actually dependent upon the viewer.
    Max Hall inadvertently authored one. Everyone who followed his outburst and apology saw the same content, but conclusions have varied dramatically and widely.
    The varience is due to the concluder - not the originator.
    We all have our own opinions about the institutions and universities we value. Perhaps we could respect even some of those we don't.

  • Brushowl
    July 31, 2010 12:38 a.m.

    Given the situation and past history I would prefer if my Aggies passed on playing BYU hensforth. USU is improving their product and simply don't need the BYU attitude any longer. BYU is not attractive when they insist on scheduling based on their rules. There are many other great teams better suited for equal scheduling of home and away games.

  • Terry
    July 31, 2010 12:44 a.m.

    BYU is being proactive and very smart with all of this. They can take 1-2 years to see if they get an invite to the Big 12 or if the Mtn West gets an AQ BCS bid, or if they can leverage the Mtn channel to allow them to broadcast some of their own games like Texas is getting in the Big 12. However, if these things don't materialize BYU will be ready with bowl alliances, team commitments, ESPN partnerships and commercial sponsorships for their BYU sports channel.

    BYU would easily double their reach on TV and it would be incredibly easy to make multiples of their measly $1.5 million Mtn contract for TV revenue when they are by far the #1 draw in the conference!

    Funny how all the BYU haters come out of the woodwork and make lame and thoughtless arguments against very prudent and intelligent actions by BYU! Be happy for your own team and the Pac-12 without being an ignoramus that still has to bag on your old rivals to feel better about yourself!

  • RockOn
    July 31, 2010 12:46 a.m.

    Excellent article, Dick. Like to read more, particularly a Part II on the Financial ramifications.

    BYU can't stand still and won't.
    1. If the MWC gets an AC for the BCS, it stays. If it does not, BYU must advance itself some way. If not, BYU will end up losing some good recruits to Utah (for no other reason than the PAC12 BCS NC possibilities).
    2. If it get invited to the Big 10-12... they'll move.
    3. If no Big 12, no AC in the MWC, then, it might be forced independent.

    Get busy livin' or get busy die'n, Andy.

  • AZJazzFan
    July 31, 2010 1:18 a.m.

    Here is hoping for independence. BYU's history in its conferences has always been a one or two game deal per season that has provided excitement. BYU's rivalry with Utah has been intense in only the last 15 years, twenty years prior it was Utah hoping for an upset, waiting for that long awaited championship that BYU routinely acheived. Once I came late to a BYU UT game and it was already the Y 49-0 BEFORE halftime, think it was '89. This year excitement will be in the air for TCU and UT, next year TCU and BSU, besides those guys, who cares? It is a deal worrying about losing and feeling not too thrilled over yet another win against Colorado St or Wyo, or underachieving SDSU. The challenge with independence though is scheduling. It has been a huge challenge just getting to play one game against a team from the BCS. No one wants to come to Provo unless they have a connection from their coach(FSU, UW). I'd love to see a diverse schedule instead of winning another championship which are watered down due to winning those routinely over the past 30 years.

  • cougsrock
    July 31, 2010 1:45 a.m.

    Rock of: Jelousy is the only way of explaining Ute reaction to the option of BYU going Independent. Thats something the Ute's couldn't do. BYU could flourish.

  • Utes 31 Tide 17
    July 31, 2010 2:03 a.m.

    It's hard not to positively bask in BYU's insecurity and panic.

    I think most of them know, deep down, that to play Utah, TCU, and BSU yearly from now on makes an undefeated season/BCS berth more or less a pipe dream.

    Independence is not an option, Big 12 is not an option, Pac 10 is not an option. 10 years from now you'll be slugging it out with BSU and TCU for a Vegas bowl bid. That's a fact.

  • rhatchmd
    July 31, 2010 2:39 a.m.

    BYU and the LDS church have a larger mission than just football. Does good will and the image of the church matter? If BYU goes independent, how will they be viewed in the eyes of others? Answer: That money and power are what is really important. What will the New Mexicos, UNLVs, Wyomings, San Diego States of the world think? What will those who think that BYUtv is an educational television station designed to let the world know about BYU and the LDS church? Answer: That its real purpose is to put money in the athletic department, to keep football recruits coming in.

    I thought colleges were designed for students to get an education, with athletics adding to the experience. It seems as though athletics are being elevated to showcase the college, and whatever has to be done to that will be done. Is the tail wagging the dog?

  • BlueSaint
    July 31, 2010 3:42 a.m.

    10 years from now, the pukes will be reminiscing about the good old days in the MTN west. How something that started so good, has gone so bad. 10 yrs from now, they will be breaking in a new head coach! Their 4th since joining the PAC-NON. 10 yrs from now they will have been surpassed by Utah State as a more viable football program in the state. 10 yrs from now all puke fans are strangely silent as BYU plays for their 3rd National Championship.

  • Bugoff
    July 31, 2010 6:13 a.m.

    BYU needs to get the same arrangement with the MTN that Texas has with the big 12. That would be the best option.

    2nd if the MTN can't get a better TV deal out of the outdoor channel then they should work a deal to use BYU's channel for the whole conference. The BYU channel is superior and the MTN could sell it's own ads. BYU could run many major/minor sports for the MTN conf. Deals could be worked with ESPN. The type of ads may be an issue for KBYU.

    People would tune in because the conference standings would drive interest in major and minor sports.

    The 3rd option would be to leave the MTN for another conf.

    4th would be to go independent. BYU is best off withing a decent conference which they can win with regularity.

  • Bugoff
    July 31, 2010 6:30 a.m.

    There is another reason for BYU using their own channel and building non member traffic. It fits the mission of the Church. The more non members they can get to find and tune into the channel for sports the more may watch other content at other times.

    BYU will build their own network. This has been in the works for years. My child worked for BYU broadcasting during the build up and it has been going on for years. There is a world vision. These are no little plans.

    BYU is finally getting it's head out of Utah and realizing it is an international not a Utah school. It has international reach and audience.

    BYU needs to be in a good soccer conference or play internationally. That has international appeal. Their basketball recruiting would improve if they had good TV coverage. Ditto for baseball and track.

    Texas has power because they have the audience. They have the alumni base and it is international. BYU has a similar base but lousy TV coverage. That has to change. When it does the audience will grow exponentially.

    Haters will increase the ratings more than the alumni base.

  • Bugoff
    July 31, 2010 6:39 a.m.

    It is far better for BYU to be in the MTN with independent coverage than to be a mediocre school in the PAC 12 which will provide sporadic regional coverage for mainly football. Average teams in the PAC 12 are of no interest nationally unless they are playing a top 10 team.

    Since BYU has it's own unique and large fan base it is far better off to provide extensive coverage for all sports than to get sporadic limited coverage in a major conference from existing TV arrangements.

    The rearrangement of the conferences is not over. The Big 12 is just a vulnerable to raiding as it was. The same is true for ND, the Big East and the ACC. The Big 12 out of necessity may still try to raid the AZ schools.

    BYU has the option of creating it own network and also still eventually belonging to a conference. It needs to maximize it's potential in the short run and keep options open in the long run.

    The current MTN TV deal does not serve anyone very well.

  • Wash DC Reader
    July 31, 2010 6:52 a.m.

    I would love for BYU to go independent IF: 1. They can get a similar deal that Notre Dame has with the BCS or other major bowls (Fiesta, Holiday, Cotton, Vegas and Poinsettia) 2. They play AF, Ut St (on conference weekend)and Utah (on last game of the year). 3. They schedule several PAC-10, BIG-12, MWC, one or two WAC and one or two other teams from the East.

    No more Wyoming, or New Mexico year in and year out. I would not mind playing San Diego St, and UNLV as there are large fan basis in those locations.

  • hedgehog
    July 31, 2010 7:10 a.m.

    Come on, we all know that the Holmoe is working on a super secret time machine- it's been in the works for several years.

    Very simple plan of attack: Transport back to 1985 and attempt to "sell" yourself to the PAC (once again). Second times the charm!

  • Randy01
    July 31, 2010 7:11 a.m.

    Maybe it is time for the Brethren to step in and resolve this situation by moving forward with a BYU-Idaho type transformation. A lot of people in the Church use and appreciate BYUTV for Conference, Church News, Inspirational Programming and would highly resent it if it suddenly became the Cougar Network. What happens on conference weekend?

  • UteVegas
    July 31, 2010 7:12 a.m.

    This article brings up some good points. There are a few major obstacles to independence that werent addressed in the article, and only briefly touched upon in the comments thus far. The major obstacle will be scheduling. As briefly mentioned, it is hard enough now to fill the non-conference schedule, let alone trying to schedule 12 games a year. BYU's program is such that good teams have little to gain by playing them because the good teams have a good chance of losing the game. Also, these teams only have a few non-conference openings each year and like to use them as home games. The second practical issue is, how will going independent help them gain access to a BCS game? Im sure they could enter an agreement with a bowl, but think it highly unlikely that they would have any shot of cracking the BCS as an independent.

  • Mount Olympus
    July 31, 2010 7:25 a.m.

    Here are a few problems:

    This would not go very well with the fans. BYU would not be playing in a conference, so they wouldn't be playing for a conference championship. What would they exactly be playing for?

    Bowls: These are all ready associated for the most part with conferences. Vegas isn't the best bowl, but at least it is a bowl.

    Scheduling: We already see that for BYU and Utah to continue playing, they probably will have to play in September. BYU may be able to continue to schedule some MWC like Boise or TCU, but if they had to schedule all 3 of these teams in September things may not always work out.

    It is already hard enough to get teams to come to provo before conferences start playing games, to do so in october and november would be very difficult. I could see byu playing a worse schedule as an independent than as a member of MWC.

  • Marky
    July 31, 2010 7:28 a.m.

    It's almost too funny to be believed. First, the Ute fans deride BYU for not being aggressive enough to do something great (like position themselves to join the PACXX) while the UofU is progressive in taking the opportunity to move on. Then, when talk surfaces of BYU doing something very aggressive (go independent), it's all "insecurity and panic' and a "pipe dream."

    I think the "Reality Check" for the Ute fans will be watching a Ute team that is mired in mediocrity for years to come as they struggle to become relevant in the middle of the PAC.

  • Magic Happens
    July 31, 2010 7:29 a.m.

    I think everyone would or should agree that BYU will eventually do what they believe to be in their best interest. I disagree with Dick's comment about Texas. I don't thank anybody believes it would take Texas 10 years to get to the current level of BYU's broadcasting ability. If Texas wanted it now, given all of their money, boosters, etc., it would take a relatively short time. One factor that Dick didn't mention though was what the coaches think, in particular Coach Mendenhall. I am sure he is in favor of it because he believes that his team is one of the premier (his words) teams in the country that would probably be able to pick and choose whom to play. And this would fall in line with the new tag line at BYU this year, the "Collective." I heard Mendenhall use this new phrase a few times in interviews this past week. So there it is, another in the line of Band of Brothers, Magic Coins, and Quest for Perfection, the Collective. If becoming independent is a better option for the collective then they should pursue it. After all Magic Happens.

  • Regal
    July 31, 2010 7:37 a.m.

    Dick mentioned a number of sporting events were broadcast on BYU-TV in HD. Where is BYU-TV in HD? I have DirecTV and it is not in HD at my house.

  • BoringGuy
    July 31, 2010 7:40 a.m.

    Utah is exploring ways to expand RES to accommodate the huge demand for Ute tickets. I would know. I was one of those people trying to get season tickets. Denied!

    BYU should consider removing seats from LES and making the stadium smaller. The interest isn't there and it adds to costs to have extra space that goes unused. The Cougars should make LES big enough for a about 45-50,000 fans.

  • redandwhite
    July 31, 2010 7:45 a.m.

    I think it would be great if Byu could pull off going independent. Playing TCU and Boise will be interesting but is that enough? Surely there has to be enough money available until it gets up and running. Teams have no issues playing BYU they just have issues with theirs quirks as Dick says so what could be better. The only concern i would have is how would bowl tie ins work. Being a Utah fan its hard to sympathise with BYU but I would like to see both stay strong. Just because we hate you does'nt mean we want you to die.

  • DC
    July 31, 2010 7:53 a.m.

    Wait a minute - you mean BYU and Holmoe haven't already done this? Utah started this 10 years ago - where has BYU been? What has Holmoe been doing? The answer is simple - BYU and Holmoe have believed that their product was good enough to garner attention from BCS conferences so they did no outreach. Now that they are in panic mode and trying to sell to fans the idea that "everything is ok, trust me," they are finally circling the wagons to start the decision making process. At least wait to make a move until after the BCS decides on the MWC being a contender.

  • defibman
    July 31, 2010 7:55 a.m.

    To read all the comments from the Utes is really funny. They are soooo nervous about going to the PAC 12 that they feel that they have to hurry and dig on BYU to make up for their deep concern. So afraid that they will now be in the bottom 1/3 of a conference and fade into nothingness. As with many things, this could take a couple or three years to play out, but I would much rather be in BYU's shoes than in Utah's.

  • Archie
    July 31, 2010 8:04 a.m.

    @RealityCheck | 11:48 p.m. July 30, 2010

    You summed up my exact thoughts as I read this article. "Trying to keep up with the Jones's next door" is a perfect way to describe the BYU and Deseret News state of panic.

    No question that if Utah had not positioned itself through a focused strategy to become the complete package the PAC is looking for ("academics, research, and athletic prowess") the BYU collective would today be marching on content with the status quo.

    Monkey Wrench | 12:20 a.m. July 31, 2010 reiterates Holmoe's message of a couple of weeks ago that BYU has been working on something for three years. Monkey surmises that the "all of a sudden" response to Utah's move it's a calculated strategy that is on going and will continue to playout."

    Three years? Calculated strategy? Good luck with that BYU and Deseret News.

    Keep up the fine work Mr. Harmon. Maybe you will get an opportunity to cover a Utah / USC game at the RES. Just think of the platform you would have to bag on the Utes and talk more about bigots of the PAC.



  • Conservative Democrat
    July 31, 2010 8:08 a.m.

    Utes 31 Tide 17:

    Your approach, all bluster and no fact or logic, shows the same anathema that Utah fans have had for BYU since before LaVell Edwards took over at BYU. BYU sports and the WAC were supposed to be doomed when Arizona and Arizona State left for the PAC-8. The Mountain West Conference that BYU and Utah left the WAC to co-found was supposed to flounder, but it has exceeded expectations. Now you have the temerity to say that BYU will not survive without Utah or the MWC, give me a break! Money talks, contracts talk, and exposure talks. If BYU can find a considerable increase in all three by going independent, nothing Utah or Utah fans say can prevent it from happening. If the MWC becomes an automatic qualifier within the BCS, nothing Utah or Utah fans say can prevent it from happening. BYU will follow the most viable option for them just like Utah did. It will be interesting to see if the extra bowl money distribution improves Utah's success in sports.

  • Bo Jangles
    July 31, 2010 8:09 a.m.

    The sky is falling... the sky is falling!

    Geeez Coug Fans, why don't you support a position of waiting 2 years to see if MWC gets AQ statues or see if the Big-12 expands.

  • UtahUtes1
    July 31, 2010 8:13 a.m.


    Terry | 12:44 a.m. July 31, 2010 states, "[f]unny how all the BYU haters come out of the woodwork and make lame and thoughtless arguments against very prudent and intelligent actions by BYU!"

    Hey Terry, what "intelligent actions" are you referring to? It's BYU's lack of intelligent action that has put them in the current situation.

  • Esquire
    July 31, 2010 8:16 a.m.

    I told you the fans were annoying....

  • RealityCheck
    July 31, 2010 8:16 a.m.

    Good for BYU for exploring their options, even if it is reactionary. By far the best option for the Cougs is to go to the Big 12, but as of right now, that's not available. Who knows if it will ever be?

    Independence might sound cool, but that would certainly have some down sides. Broadcasting your games on BYU-TV is a surefire way to make sure that ONLY Mormons ever watch BYU football games. The casual football fan would never even think to tune in to that channel to watch anything, let alone football.

    If going independent will help BYU financially, I would be shocked to see how BYU-TV could offer BYU football the multi-million dollar contract it is seeking. That is tough to do when BYU-TV's advertising base is essentially limited to Deseret Book, Seagull Book & Tape, and The Brick Oven.

    If I was BYU, I would be calling ESPN, Versus, Fox Sports...anything but going down the BYU-TV route.

  • nehu
    July 31, 2010 8:16 a.m.

    As an innocent bystander (Aggie Fan) I do find all this "please don't be so mean" talk from Cougar fans quite entertaining.

    Since Adam met Eve it is you Cougar fans who have shoved the proverbial stick in our eyes and now you just lost out on perhaps the most important game of all, getting to the bcs. Too bad indeed and while I agree with many posters that BYU and Utah have helped each other get where they are, it is important to note that it is Utah, not BYU who has experienced the most relevant post season success since the BCS was formed. This cannot be overlooked, BYU's bowl record is beyond pathetic, hence the result.

    The belittling "little brother" comments and continuous grandstanding of those who are "so blessed" has finally come back around to haunt you. Your arrogance finally caught up to you and now it is too much for me or probably any none BYU fan not to sit back and enjoy the self doubt circus going on in Provo.

    I don't wish you ill and I certainly don't "hate" you but it is nice to see you grovel:)

  • wayne
    July 31, 2010 8:21 a.m.

    this is all about Baitmen's mistakes of not inviting Boise st and Fresno st. and including UNLV and Wyoming.

    both mistakes cost the conference chances at AC. and it has taken the loss of Utah to get the conference to start a move to correct some of this mess.

    going ahead from here. the MWC can not expand because of the bottom dwellers of the league are causing it to be a NC. they need the extra games outside the conference to improve there records they are soo far beind.

  • Go Big Blue!!!
    July 31, 2010 8:43 a.m.

    y you are no Longhorns. UT is the king of college sports. They could go to any conference they want to. Thinking that the y could negotiate a broadcasting deal like Texas is as insane as stating that the y will win 3 national championships. Lala land!

    Notre Dame is nearing the end of their football independence. It takes an incredible program to succeed as an independent. The y isn't even close to being a tired run down ND.

  • UtahUtes1
    July 31, 2010 8:48 a.m.

    @BlueSaint | 3:42 a.m. July 31, 2010

    The BYU Board of Trustees will soon acknowledge that the athletic program at BYU does not foster respect for others and love for fellow man and is therefore detrimental to the church.

    10 years from now the only event for which Cougar stadium will be used is the annual 4th of July fireworks show.

  • hedgehog
    July 31, 2010 9:00 a.m.

    Get a similar TV deal as Texas or ND? Really? what planet are you from.....oh never mind.

    Delusion got you to this point (mid-majors).

    It's very clear that to take the next step will require a bit of give and take ....are you up for it kewgs?? If not, accept your annual trip to Laramie.

  • jazzbball
    July 31, 2010 9:01 a.m.

    12 year olds unite! Must be a BYU article on the D news...... yep, it is!
    The utah fans commenting more on BYU articles than Utah articles....wow....

  • davidutefan
    July 31, 2010 9:11 a.m.

    Just because households CAN watch, doesn't mean they will. I'm sure all 40 million in South America will be riveted to their seats to watch a mediocre team play Futbol Americano. Soccer's goin down lol. I can watch fishing shows almost all day, It doesn't mean I'm the least bit interested. I would much rather watch nehu's Aggies on low definition. No offense intended, I really do like the Aggies and have for years.

  • Linus
    July 31, 2010 9:16 a.m.

    I'm a Cougar fan. But I was excited to see Utah get the chance to make it BIG in the PAC 10/12. We are movin' on up.

    Why can't you "little" Ute fans work up some enthusiasm over the potential of BYU to make it BIG.

    Oh, and by the way, I'm OK with our in-state schools NOT playing each other. That is fraticide. Let us all thrill when our brother dominates his own sandbox.

  • Anne26
    July 31, 2010 9:16 a.m.

    If BYU decides to go independent, I think they will do well for themselves. They will be much like Notre Dame, who is still respected even in the down times because of their football tradition. BYU also has that same tradition. I have heard that the fans at Notre Dame are some of the best in the country and visitors to their stadium and treated with respect and as guests. BYU (and Utah) should strive for the same.

    I have something to say to all the fans on both sides of the Utah/BYU rivalry who spew hate and venom whenever they post: I plan on enjoying the upcoming season of football, come what may. I am going to cheer for my team and enjoy the ride, while ignoring the ignorant remarks from those who have nothing better to do then to stir the pot. I will hope for the best for both teams and will no longer allow myself to be pulled into the hate and anger. Hopefully there are enough fans on both sides who want the same thing that we can turn the tide.

  • sls
    July 31, 2010 9:17 a.m.

    Almost unnoticed in the local press, but Texas has been seriously looking at BYU-TV as a model for its own attempt to create a proprietary network. In fact, that was the main sticking point in their negotiations with the Pac. The west coast dinosaurs didn't want to let Texas have its own tv channel.

    Utah is going to regret the decision to jump at the after-thought invitation to join the league of "former" champions, as its plan B (or was it F, G, or H) option. Utah's competition and rivals are going to be Colorado and Washington State. BYU will soar without the cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face "rivalry."

  • Archie
    July 31, 2010 9:25 a.m.

    @nehu | 8:16 a.m. July 31, 2010

    Hilarious comment...and right on point!

    There is no doubt in my mind that Utah St will be taking it to BYU within 3-4 years and be competitive with my Utes.

    Go Utah State!

  • MiP
    July 31, 2010 9:31 a.m.

    The Y going independent would not be a good idea, from scheduling, to finances, to bowl invitations.

    I'm telling you, the MWC will recieve an auto BCS bid within the next two years. Just be patient. In the meantime, BYU, go out and win your games. Go to a BCS bowl with a 12-0 record and win that game. If you feel you belong there, then prove it.

    Talk is cheap.

    And we're all cheapskates.

  • Archie
    July 31, 2010 9:31 a.m.

    sls | 9:17 a.m. July 31, 2010

    Excellent. Get back to us after all these predictions of yours actually happen.

  • BoiseSuperBlue
    July 31, 2010 9:57 a.m.

    Realistically, the only mid-major that has a chance to make it financially would be us, Boise.

    Need I remind you that we have been to 2 BCS Bowl and that ESPN ranks us as the best mid-major team for the last 10 years now that Utah is technically no longer a mid-major.

    Financially, Boise is the only mid-major with clout enough to secure their own contracts, bowls and opponents. BYU is nationally irrelevant.

    My prediction is that we will go independent if the MWC doesn't get automatically qualified.

  • Utes 31 Tide 17
    July 31, 2010 10:05 a.m.

    Re: Conservative Democrat

    A MWC auto-berth is a pipe dream, and here's why: It's based on the idea that the BCS(an organization founded on the principles of greed and exclusion), is going to grant a berth to one of its prestigious bowls to an outsider when it doesn't have to. The BCS's 3rd criteria in evaluating conferences(overall conference strength) gives them all the excuse they need to continue to exclude the MWC, or any other conference.

    I'm not saying BYU won't survive, I'm saying they're not going anywhere, up or down.

  • Te Amo
    July 31, 2010 10:13 a.m.

    Blue Saint, your 10 year revelation is a perfect example of BYUs biggest problem... hi hi hi

  • Bugoff
    July 31, 2010 10:18 a.m.

    @Reality: "If I was BYU, I would be calling ESPN, Versus, Fox Sports...anything but going down the BYU-TV route".

    You missed the key point. BYU can do the above with any game that might interest the other networks and max the money from those sources. They can also run the rest of their sports programs on their own channel.

    As far as gaining relevancy by joining the PAC 10?

    CO was in the Big 12 and a BCS school already and with a national championship in the last 20 years. How nationally relevant are they now they are in the PAC12?

    About as relevant as they were in the Big 12 which was pretty irrelevant. Utah is not any more relevant nationally in the PAC 12 than they were before. If anything they may be less relevant. They will not be playing AL or any SEC school for a national championship in the near future.

    It is the Utah fans who are delusional.

    Utah may get lucky and go to a Rose Bowl but they are about as nationally relevant as ASU, AU and CO.

  • Eileen
    July 31, 2010 10:25 a.m.

    BYU has been producing top quality sports programming for decades. I worked on the sports crew, out of a state of the art production truck in the late 70's and early 80's. We did some work for ESPN back then. Doing the football and basketball games were some of my favourite parts of my student years. It gave the students amazing skills heading out into the job market later. I'm still in broadcasting now.

  • Bugoff
    July 31, 2010 10:28 a.m.

    BYU's problem is 2 fold.

    They need to go undefeated. Since they can't even do that in the MTN that is a problem. They are not ready to dominate the PAC12 or the Big 12. Neither is Utah.

    The second problem is TV coverage (less than money). For BYU to get the international recruits, it needs to have much better coverage. Then it will go undefeated.

    An arrangement like that of Texas while staying in the MTN is the best arrangement for BYU.

    They get better coverage, should over time get better recruits and have a reasonable shot at winning the MTN.

    The BCS is a dead arrangement walking. The conference realignments which are driven by TV not tradition or geography are going to alter the BCS. Congress could also step in and force a playoff system.

    BYU has to be flexible to navigate the potentially swiftly changing environment.

    BYU will be fine.

    Utah might get to a Rose Bowl in the next few years but they will not challenge for a national championship. While USC is down. UCLA will benefit. Then it will be back to the PAC 12 as normal.

  • Bugoff
    July 31, 2010 10:37 a.m.

    @BoiseSuperBlue The only thing that has made BSU relevant is their easy schedule and then winning big bowl games when they have to. That is the same route Utah took. It is the best route for outside teams.

    It will be harder for BSU to do that in the MTN. I am not saying BSU can't just that it will be harder.

    As far as BSU going independent. I do not think so. They do not have the resources or the appeal. They are a novelty but that disappears as quickly as BSU loses. You already have major scheduling problems for open games.

    With or without the BCS the MTN is the best option for BSU. Especially if BYU goes independent which I do not think they will.

    You national relevance only happens as long as you are ranked in the top 10. 1 loss and you are not relevant any more.

  • Ernest T. Bass
    July 31, 2010 10:46 a.m.

    Yes.

  • AZguy
    July 31, 2010 10:49 a.m.

    Ute fans commenting on this BYU article crack me up. You are still trashing BYU even though you are moving to a better neighborhood. I read a U article a couple of weeks ago and you could not help but cheer for Asista. Why must you tear down U fan-unless you are a 19 year old living in your mom's basement-then I can understand.

    I am an engineer, so the numbers are the bottom line for me The guy who commented on football attendance is living a dream. Except for the Crowton years, BYU has essentially sold out homes games for going on 20 years. And how far was it down in the Crowton years. Not by 10K fans, which is still 10K larger than RES.

    Mediocre football team? That is also dreamland. 4 years in the top 25 and over 40 wins. That is a model of consistency and not mediocre by anyone's standards except for Florida, USC, and a few select others. No one is denying monstrous beat downs. If the U had that kind of consistency, it would be shouted from the roof tops. BYU football is not going away.

  • Ernest T. Bass
    July 31, 2010 10:49 a.m.

    Cougsrock is funny. He will do anything to try and spin this as a win for byu.
    It's not and never will be. The obvious gap between the programs will get wider.

  • Hellooo
    July 31, 2010 11:04 a.m.

    Arrogance, my goodness, from the Y, U and even the Aggies. Small town teams with big egos, trying to one up each other. Can't just cheer for their own team, but have to rant down on the other. Pretty old. Dick, nice article, but Holmoe made two things pretty clear, 1) the Y couldn't just "dictate" itself into a BCS conference, and 2) the Y is not Notre Dame, ie, not able to be in any conference it wants or be successful as an independent. So, the Y will play in MWC, which is fine even without Utah. While the TVchampionship leagues (BCS) get the bowl money, the Y could drive a deal with the MWC like Texas is with the Big 12 and use its sports to derive more $. They have that clout in the MWC, and should use it. The road to a BCS bowl, may be easier anyway even without an AQ. Especially for a MWC great team like the U had in 2004 and very good team like it had in 2008. Or the WAC with BSU 2009, and Hawaii in 2008 Lets, stop with the grass is greener stuff, and play football.

  • Duh
    July 31, 2010 11:05 a.m.

    It is so funny to see all of these Ute fans posting that BYU is in a state of panic because of an reporters comments. I don't see BYU in any state of panic. They will make the move when it is right, not because they were the "second choice". If I remember right, the PAC-10 only came to Utah because better schools wouldn't join them so, they went to second best. They would never have brought BYU even if Utah had not been offered a seat in their house because of their religious affiliation. So, Utah, how does it feel to be second best. BYU is in no hurry. They will play things out. Even if it takes a few years, BYU will find the right fit and they will flourish. It will be interesting to see how Utah pans out for the first few years in the PAC-12. They think they are just going to immediately win the conference championship.....who's dreaming now?

  • redandwhite
    July 31, 2010 11:06 a.m.

    The relevant don't have to constantly remind themselves they are relevant.Utah has begun to achieve this but has a ways to go. Neither Utah or BYU will ever be on par with the really big boys relevance wise. How many current bcs teams are relevant right now? Take a little time to stop the bleeding of being left out and then make an intelligent decision how to proceed. After all if your little brother can do it why can't you.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt
    July 31, 2010 11:06 a.m.

    BYU's best option is to discontinue athletics and concentrate on educating students with it's unique religious mission.

  • Howard S.
    July 31, 2010 11:12 a.m.


    BYU will indeed pursue football independence.

    Take it to the bank.

    With Utah's move to the PAC 10 BYU is desperate to avoid any perception of being left behind and no major conference wants them.

    Independence is their only option.

  • Archie
    July 31, 2010 11:26 a.m.

    So, do all of you think that Holmoe is busily reading these posts and taking notes on your suggestions? BYU is saved!!


  • Randy01
    July 31, 2010 11:27 a.m.

    @Anne26

    Do you really believe that BYU's football tradition is the equivalent of Notre Dame? If your view of BYU's tradition is representative, then maybe it really is time to go to go the BYU-Idaho model.

    I do admire your other comments; however independence is not a viable option. It is arguable that independence is no longer viable for Notre Dame either. Everyone should just settle down and enjoy the games for what they are. All of the talk about "product" is interesting. It looks like a whole of fans from both sides have bought into the same point of view that you have consistently derided when you speak about the BCS conferences.

    All of us should be just a little ashamed. We are projecting too much pressure on the schools, the teams, and on each other.

  • CG
    July 31, 2010 11:31 a.m.

    The best option for bloggers like hedgehog, JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt is to confine their comments to juvenile discussions, like Utah sports, and remain silent on serious discussions like BYU sports.





  • Jimmy James
    July 31, 2010 11:34 a.m.

    Mount Olympus:

    Great points on why going independent is not such a great idea.

    My 2 cents:

    The Mountain West's position has changed very little from previous years. True, losing Utah is a blow, but we're getting replaced by Boise State, which is a tough team to beat football wise as far as replacements go. You had 3 good teams before and you will still have 3 good teams after. The mountain west is still a very solid conference, why leave?

  • Willard
    July 31, 2010 11:40 a.m.

    Cougar Fans,
    You all apparently seem to be missing it. What I am trying to say is that all the objective ute fans on this board could help you out if they would. They have the knowlege and the connections to give you a boost.If you all would say "please" they might step forward and be the generous people that they are.Don't tire yourself out with "ute envy."
    Did you know that many many years ago all the Utes had a little band of sheep?..............

  • cougarinboston
    July 31, 2010 11:50 a.m.

    BYU's BEST option is going independent. It's simple. The Mountain TV station has 9 universities that it averages it's 1.5 mil deal off of. BYU pulls in more than any other 3 members combines. BYU is at the top of the heap, and then the average is pulled down by other schools, i.e. Wyoming, CSU.

    BYU would increase TV revenue by going Independent.

    As far as conference affiliation, the ONLY thing keeping BYU from being considered a Major player across the board is being affiliated with a mid-major conference. BYU draws like a major, has facilities like a major, and is consistently ranked in apprx. 12-14 sports, as only a couple dozen other schools in the country are. Going Independent would allow BYU to almost instantly shed the mid major title. For examples outside of ND, I remind you that both Penn St. AND MIAMI were considered Major BEFORE they joined conferences. It was there move to Independence that made them so valuable that the Big 10 and Big East begged them for their allegiance.

    BYU could get better bowl games without the cruddy MWC deal with the Vegas.

  • junkgeek
    July 31, 2010 11:56 a.m.

    Why does everyone assume that BYU going Independent would make them the next Notre Dame? They could become the next Army, but without a Navy.

    And would the BCS include BYU in its contract, like Notre Dame? Don't forget, Notre Dame's TV deal is with NBC (nationally), not a cable channel no one outside a BYU alum is going to watch.

  • Dave from Taylorsville
    July 31, 2010 11:57 a.m.

    JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt | 11:06 a.m. July 31, 2010
    "BYU's best option is to discontinue athletics and concentrate on educating students with it's unique religious mission"

    John, if you were in any way associated with BYU's "unique religious mission" you'd know that "The Brethren" make the decisions on this "option." Obviously they fell a little differently about it than you do.

    To the rabid Utah State fans who have been posting here with chest thumping about how great their program is. My reserved response is, "ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS!" I am NOT trying to bash you guys, but WHEW! Unless you go back to the Eric Hipple days in the mid 70's, you won't find any football relevance for USU even in the state of utah, much less anywhere else. They are lucky there in WAC and not the Big Sky (where they really belong).

    It's obvious to even the casual observer that the course for BYU is to wait for BCS AQ status. In the mean time, if BIG 10-12-62, who-ever, come courting. . . consider it.

  • tony
    July 31, 2010 12:08 p.m.

    It's obvious that due to BYU uniqueness it would be very hard for BCS conferences to include it in their plans. BYU sticks out like a sore thumb and I'm sure that most schools feel uncomfortable to face it every year in football and every other sports.
    Yes, we're BYU; we are different, we are perculiar. We don't comprise, we don't jump into the band wagon, we stand alone and we should be very proud of being different. We keep things clean, honest and pure. Let's not forget who's truly in charge of our school and who we represent.
    I think the idea of going Independence would be a good fit. We're very much independence because of our beliefs, standards and code of conducts. We don't let the world change us. And if we want to improve our status and reputation this is the way to do them. I think there's only three teams which means the other nine or ten games could be teams with great traditions. Go Cougs!
    Financially, we already have contracts with Dish, Direct TV, Comcast, more deals can be made later. We can go nationals!

  • TrueBlue
    July 31, 2010 12:12 p.m.

    BoiseSuperBlue

    I would love to see Boise State have a great season in 2010, including winning a national championship.

    That would just make beating up on the Broncos starting next year that much sweeter.

    btw, been there, done that -- see BYU vs #1 Miami

    ---------------------------------

    Utah fans -- why are you still here? Aren't there any PAC 10 blogs you could be hanging out on?

    Or, have you simply accepted reality, that you'll never really be one of the big boys?

    All you're really proving by hanging out here is that for all of your chest beating, you're still using BYU as your standard for measuring Utah's success.

    Classic little brother syndrome.





  • rlsintx
    July 31, 2010 12:20 p.m.

    BYU's best option is to not worry about what conference they're in and to make themselves undeniable; eg - win their conference and out of conference / bowl / tourney games. The fact that they haven't has severely reduced their bargaining power when these situations come up....

  • Dagat
    July 31, 2010 12:28 p.m.

    BYU, TCU & BSU of the MWC have winning records (9-6, 3-2, 4-2, respectively) againt the mighty Pac-10 & Utah over the last five seasons. I don't believe the dominance of current and future members of the MWC over current & future members of the Pac-10/12 will stop anytime soon...that is unless the Pac-10 wises up & realizes that to stop this embarassing trend they should just stop scheduling the "less-talented" MWC.

    Ute fans, you didn't get into the PAC because of your athletic prowess. If that were the case, CO wouldn't have been invited. You got in because you were the last viable option for a conference that was hell bent on going to 12 teams in order to have a conf. championship game and the money that comes with it. I'm not saying you don't deserve to go to a more lucrative conf, because you do. I'm just saying BYU will continue to dominate you (3 of the last 4 FB games, & lets not even talk about BB) regardless of your conference affiliation.


  • Carson
    July 31, 2010 12:31 p.m.

    @nehu | 8:16 a.m. July 31, 2010

    Best and most honest post on the article! Us going to the Pac 12 is cake, Byu fans misery is the frosting!

  • Observation-ist
    July 31, 2010 12:36 p.m.

    To 31-17 ... If a BYU BCS berth is a pipe dream because of Utah/TCE/BSU, so is a Utah National Championship a pipe dream because of the top half of the PAC 10. Utah will fight to win a PAC10 championship just as BYU will fight to win a MWC title. It will require an undefeated season to be in a National Championship discussion and BYU has a better chance at going undefeated in the MWC than Utah has in the PAC12.

    I'm not arrogant enought to call it a fact but it's awfully close to reality.

    I wonder how many LDS households nationally (let alone internationally) would pay for a subscription to BYU-TV if sports were included? I can tell you from my discussion with LDS folks on the east coast, it's a non-trivial number. Combine church content (conference, firesides, BYU devotionals, etc.) with sporting events and I'll venture to say there's a sizeable number of the 4+ Million members in the US that would pay a $10/month subscription. At 10% of that population (400K) x $10/Month ~ $4M/Month or ~$50M a year. Just sayin'

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt
    July 31, 2010 1:18 p.m.

    BYU's best chance to do anything is not to get embarrassed by Florida State and TCU after beating Oklahoma and getting to a BCS bowl. Until then they are have no standing.

  • Ernest T. Bass
    July 31, 2010 1:21 p.m.

    Go independent, have Deseret Book, KSL, Glen Beck, Sean Hannity and the Deseret News pay for ads on BYU TV to make up the advertising revenue.
    They could also sell ads for the new mall and condo project, LDS.org, LDS Business College, etc.
    They could make many tens of millions each year.

  • GoUtah
    July 31, 2010 1:24 p.m.

    If going independent makes the tds and their fans less hateful, I'm all in favor of it!

  • Nostradamus
    July 31, 2010 1:51 p.m.

    I am a big time Ute fan. I am also interested in the local sports teams. I also belong to the predominant religion here in Utah.

    Here is my concerns with BYU going independent. First, as others have stated I just don't see the market. Yes, lots of folks attend games outside of LES...but enough to justify the costs of independent sports programming? Second, who is paying for commercials (revenue) for KBYU programming? The limited times I have seen BYU programming, the commerciasl all seems to be LDS spots. Finally, shouldn't independence be financially self supporting...either through revenue, donations or major sponsors?

    I have felt for a long time that the Church receives more harm than benefit from BYU Football...mostly this is a local issue, but there is a lot more vocal disdain for BYU football when they travel around to other states. I just don't see it being helpful to the church. When Air Force travels they seem to garner respect (maybe because they are generally just an average team)...BYU dies not receive this same respect and it is negative toward the church.

  • TDS Fan
    July 31, 2010 1:52 p.m.

    As a fan of The TDS, does going independent mean that we don't get to lose in the Vegas Bowl anymore?

  • Uteology
    July 31, 2010 1:56 p.m.

    hedgehog|7:10 a.m. July 31, 2010
    Come on, we all know that the Holmoe is working on a super secret time machine- it's been in the works for several years.

    ------

    Actually it's a Hot Tub and I herd they're planning on going back to 1980s to relive the glory days.

    How would BYU align itself with a bowl game and the BCS. Specially if we have 4 Super 16 coferences.

    I think the best hope is for BYU and TCU to make it to a BCS conference.

  • Uteology
    July 31, 2010 2:11 p.m.

    Bugoff
    Utah may get lucky and go to a Rose Bowl but they are about as nationally relevant as ASU, AU and CO.

    ------

    I think we can all agree that the National Stage is playing in prime time in January.

    If so only Utah has done it twice recently, the other schools have not.

    Utah has been making national history:

    1st mid-major to break the BcS
    1st mid-major to finish ranked #2
    1st mid-major to win 2 BcS bowls
    1st mid-major to get an invite to join the BcS cartel

    If that is not nationally relavent for a mid-major then please tell me what is since a mid-major has not won a title under the current rules.

  • PJ
    July 31, 2010 2:19 p.m.

    Brushowl, as a fellow Aggie I agree with the idea of BYU being off the football schedule. Possibly starting or renewing a rivalry with a regional opponent like CSU or Wyo., but the fact is that BYU game is huge. The amount of revenue would be too hard to pass up.

  • Uteology
    July 31, 2010 2:25 p.m.

    @Bugoff | 10:28 a.m. July 31, 2010

    BYU nor anyone else will out recruit Texas, USC, Florida, Ohio.

    That being said BYU is already is the dominate mid-major program in recruiting according to Scouts. Yet Utah, TCU, and Boise have been buch better on the field.

    Conclusion, going independent won't change recruiting much nor the play on the field.

  • IDC
    July 31, 2010 2:25 p.m.

    You haters are pathetic.

    Utah State fans get picked for 4th in the WAC and are suddenly a fearsome team.

    Utes, how insecure can you be? You get what you want and you still can't stop looking back to your soon to be old conference. Move forward to bigger and better. If you really are happy, then leave.

  • optimist
    July 31, 2010 2:27 p.m.


    To stay in the MWC, BYU must have the right to broadcast all of their own games. The MWC should be
    offered AQ in the BCS.

    We should offer all of the Independents, Notre Dame,
    Army, Navy to join the MWC. We should invite SMU, Baylor, and Houston to join the MWC also.

    If they do not want to come to the mwc, the following should all become independents:

    Notre Dame-----------------------Army
    BYU------------------------------Navy
    TCU------------------------------Air Force
    Baylor---------------------------Boise State
    SMU------------------------------Houston

    Weather this group be the new MWC or the new
    Conference of Independents, this should be the next
    AQ BCS conference.

  • PJ
    July 31, 2010 2:50 p.m.

    @ IDC
    We're haters? Really? The institution and religion you affiliate yourself with is rich in hate. Maybe instead of turning your cheek and looking the other way you could stand up for what is right. Until then though, BYU will never be respected for thier beliefs(see pac-10 non offer).

  • mussingaround
    July 31, 2010 2:50 p.m.

    TDS Fan

    Having a little bit of an identity crisis there BYU hater? You might be a ewe in disguise, but there's no way you're a BYU fan.

  • SoCalUtahFan
    July 31, 2010 2:52 p.m.


    Dear Dick,

    The key word: reputation of football program.
    That all there is --just reputation.
    Truth is: without a BCS bowl in its resume, the football program is just better than average.
    TCU has 1. BSU has 2. Utah has 2. BYU has 0.

  • COUGARNATE
    July 31, 2010 2:52 p.m.

    BYU should be getting more money than the cellar dwellers. Wyoming,Sdsu,new mexico,csu and unlv are not deserving of the same money as any of the top teams in this league. The big 12 was smart to let the teams who make the league better have more money. The MWC should let BYU broadcast their own games. BYU-TV is a better equipped station then the MTN network. And more people can see the game too. Hey aggie fan you can not be a bistander, aggies hate BYU as much as ttun does. So stop trying to act like you are neutral.

  • MOUte
    July 31, 2010 2:53 p.m.

    optimist | 2:27 p.m. July 31, 2010

    My father-in-law talks like that.



    IDC | 2:25 p.m. July 31, 2010

    I'm quite certain that the Utes are in the MWC this year. Are you the Hall Monitor?

  • Cougars --Best Little Brothers
    July 31, 2010 2:55 p.m.

    owlmaster2 | 11:21 p.m. July 30, 2010
    ...Why don't they form the bYu Conference and just play the blue team against the white team each week????...

    Great idea!!!
    With their HD-TV technology, the broadcast can be followed by lots of Kewgar fans all over the country.
    At the end of the season, both teams can go to their own Provo BcS Bowl.
    Why didn't Tom think of that?

  • BYU = Best Little Brothers
    July 31, 2010 2:59 p.m.

    @MiP | 9:31 a.m. July 31, 2010
    ...Go to a BCS bowl with a 12-0 record and win that game. If you feel you belong there, then prove it...

    Finally, some good comments posted here.
    BYU think they belong because of their 20-some-year of football reputation from the WAC/MWC conferences. And because of 1984.
    Try to get to a BCS bowl and win one.

  • MOUte
    July 31, 2010 3:01 p.m.

    @IDC | 2:25 p.m. July 31, 2010

    I read the following post on another article and thought of you...

    "The Utah Utes were the buzz talk at BOTH the MWC AND the PAC Media Days. I certainly understand why tds fans are having such difficulty dealing with Utah's presence on the national stage.

    Think about it...over the last three decades, the BYU collective has talked itself into believing that schools and fan bases across the nation have a burning desire to be just like BYU and the Cougars. Suddenly, they are forced to acknowledge not only is that notion not true but that no one even wants to be ASSOCIATED with them.

    Wow...now there's a wake-up call!"

  • ItrustNo1
    July 31, 2010 3:04 p.m.

    BYU, jealous of "The Utes"?....now I am laughing. BYU is going to do just fine no matter what "The Utes" have decided to do. Bottom line in all of this, is a need for a national audience. One thing BYU has in spades and "The Utes", (I love just saying that cute name), simply do not have. FACT: Out of ESPN's all time TOP 10 largest viewer audience broadcasts, BYU is in five, (5), of them. Yep, You Utes need to really enjoy this year, because begining next year, except for the money, you may just disappear. Isn't it funny, or sad, how even now BYU is receiving more national attention than "The Utes" are. Just get on line, you see it everyday. Good luck though, cause you "Utes" are gonna need it!

  • cougarinboston
    July 31, 2010 3:06 p.m.

    BYU's best option is Independence, and I hope it happens for several reasons:

    A. BYU is THE draw for the Mountain TV deal. The other 8 schools bring the average down. That means that BYU would make more money by itself. The logic is simple. Texas brings way more money to the BIG 12 deal than Baylor. Texas would make more without Baylor, hence the reason the Longhorns want unequal revenue sharing.

    B. BYU competes and draws crowds like a major. BYU is ranked in nearly every sport nearly every year. The facilities and broadcasting are high end Major-like.

    C. The only thing keeping BYU mid major is its affiliation with a mid major conference. The same was true with Penn St. AND Miami. So, they both went Independent, became nationally recognized, and then the BIG 10 and BIG East picked them up.

    D. Bowl games. BYU would not be relegated to the Vegas Bowl every year. We could be in better bowl games like we used to be with the Holiday and the Capital One. That will never happen in the MWC, because there bowl committee's know they might get stuck with Wyoming.

  • optimist
    July 31, 2010 3:19 p.m.

    I think that having Army, Navy, and Notre Dame in the Conference of Independents, gives the name,"independents" respect.

    It would be good for BYU to be a part of that respected group.

    Dare I say more? I'm not sure.

  • IDC
    July 31, 2010 3:19 p.m.

    PJ Wow, did I strike a nerve. I didn't say anything about religion. I don't care if you respect my beliefs. They are mine. This is only to do with football, football, football.

    Sounds like you will fit in nicely with the Pac 10 and all of their openmindedness.

  • skywalker
    July 31, 2010 3:21 p.m.

    Reality is that until you've won a major college football national championship, your program will never be insignificant.

    Over 40 different teams have played in BCS games in a little over 10 years.

    Compare that to only 23 different teams that have won AP and/or Coaches Poll national championships in the last FIFTY years and you'll understand why BCS appearances will NEVER compare to winning a national championship.

    When the BCS dies, which it will eventually, "BCS" will simply become another footnote in the annuls of college football.

    Winning an Orange, Rose, Sugar or Fiesta Bowl in 2010 will be no more significant than winning an Orange, Rose, Sugar or Fiesta Bowl before or after the BCS.

  • pinkrobot
    July 31, 2010 3:26 p.m.

    Just remember Ute fans, you were picked for the Pac XII AFTER that mighty athletic powerhouse Colorado if that tells you anything. Would BYU loved to have gone to the Pac XII? Absolutely. Was it ever realistic to think BYU would get in with it not being a graduate level research institution and with it's religious ties? No way. So BYU is smart to wait it out and see what happens with the MWC and the Big XII over the next few years. They'll be in a great position by then to go independent if needed and Utah will be enjoying another 6-6 season in the Pac XII.

  • ColoradoUte4Life
    July 31, 2010 3:27 p.m.

    This article does nothing but elaborate on the Church's network associated with BYU. This has very little to do with the ability of BYU to go independent. There is no way BYU is going independent. The writer just put this in the paper because it's still a hot thing. But I can't believe there are BYU fans still thinking they are going to get invited into BCS conference. Alignment already happened. Get over it.

  • hedgehog
    July 31, 2010 3:32 p.m.

    "The same was true with Penn St. AND Miami. So, they both went Independent, became nationally recognized, and then the BIG 10 and BIG East picked them up"

    Cougarboston,

    hmmmm, and just who do you think will "pick up" the kewgs??

    ............Dial tone...................

  • skywalker
    July 31, 2010 3:38 p.m.

    *never be significant

  • fender
    July 31, 2010 3:38 p.m.

    With due respect, three things are virtually certain: BYU won't get an invite to a BCS conference, it won't go independent and it won't leave the MWC. It's not just the PAC-10; no other BCS conference is going to marry baggage-heavy BYU (like the attractive, well dressed, but unbelievably neurotic guy who can't get a date). Independence would be a disaster in scheduling (especially home and home), and Holmoe knows it; that's why it hasn't and won't ever happen, no matter how much they talk about it. Without the scheduling the dollars just aren't there, no matter how you dice it.

  • hedgehog
    July 31, 2010 3:46 p.m.

    pinkrobot ( great name),

    Keep telling yourself that over and over and over again..... it probably works better than sleeping pills.

  • hedgehog
    July 31, 2010 3:59 p.m.

    Just to clear up some misconceptions.

    Many zoobies beleive the Big 12 is more "accepting" of religious/conservative schools. This is true only if your religious belifs are similar to the majority (i.e Baylor). If not? well, we know how conservatives treat outsiders.....

    The big 12 pipedream will never EVER happen and we all know it. Don't place all your hopes and dreams on this invite.........Unless your willing to change.

    What do say kewgs? you ready to make the needed changes?

  • BYU84
    July 31, 2010 4:01 p.m.

    BYU should stay in the MWC for the time being, help the conference achieve AQ status, but keep the broadcast rights for BYU football and men's basketball in the next MWC television contract.

    If Versus, theMtn, or CBS College Sports wants to broadcast a BYU game, that's fine, but BYU should retain the rights to broadcast their own games as well. If that means settling for a little less for the conference, so be it.

    With Boise State leaving the WAC, ESPN might be will to schedule MWC games on Thu, Fri and Sat only. A regular MWC ESPN Friday night game would be great for conference exposure.

    I don't ever want to hear Thompson saying again that the MWC doesn't want to play on Friday nights because that would hurt high school football. Who cares?

    And, I certainly don't want to hear about Thu and Fri games being too hard on Wyoming fans to get to the games. Again, who cares? Wyoming drawing 30,000 fans on Sat instead of 20,000 on Thu shouldn't be a television contract deal breaker.

  • MOUte
    July 31, 2010 4:12 p.m.

    @pinkrobot | 3:26 p.m. July 31, 2010

    "Was it ever realistic to think BYU would get in with it not being a graduate level research institution and with it's religious ties? No way. So BYU is smart to wait it out and see what happens with the MWC and the Big XII over the next few years."

    This is the ONLY post I've seen from a BYU fan that actually recognizes BYU doesn't have the research required by the PAC. I very much respect your acknowledgment of that fact.

    Your conclusion "BYU is smart to wait it out..." is a bit confusing to me. You talk like the inaction from BYU is by design. I suggest to you that BYU is "waiting it out" because it's the ONLY thing BYU can do. BYU has no choice in the matter.

    Admittedly, I am very impressed that you know football better then the PAC coaches and predict Utah at 6-6. Do you have a stock pick for me? Oh wait...let's see how well your prediction work out, first.


  • TDS Fan
    July 31, 2010 4:25 p.m.

    As a fan of The TDS, does going independent means we get to remain a Mid Major, I'm all in favor of it!

  • maddog
    July 31, 2010 4:34 p.m.

    Hey Dick, I really doubt that some Big 12 President is thinking, "Dang, dem mormons have a HDTV truck, lets pick them..." The sorry fact is we mormons take BYU way to serious, especially when it comes to football. Example: there was 118 comments on this article and 5 on the Brigham City temple dedication. Go figure. Until we accept the fact that BYU football will always be a mid-major team and have to settle for breaking into the top 10 every decade or so, and the fact our religious convictions of no Sunday play is part of the issue. We will be forever disappointed. The problem is we despise the world and it's standards, but yet desperately seek their acceptance, what a paradox.

  • Archie
    July 31, 2010 4:36 p.m.

    @skywalker | 3:21 p.m. July 31, 2010

    What a great post. If your postulations are correct, why hasn't another conference snatched up BYU? Maybe it's because the world you live in doesn't exist.

  • Uteology
    July 31, 2010 4:49 p.m.

    FACT: Out of ESPN's all time TOP 10 largest viewer audience broadcasts, BYU is in five, (5), of them.

    ------

    Please post those viewer numbers because I would be shocked to see that those numbers are higher then the BCS games.

    Please provide the entire data set: The game and TV rating

  • hedgehog
    July 31, 2010 4:55 p.m.

    "The problem is we despise the world and it's standards, but yet desperately seek their acceptance, what a paradox."

    Maddog,

    Pretty much sums it all up. Perfect.

  • TDS Fan
    July 31, 2010 5:14 p.m.

    Does going independent mean that our "Quest for Perfection" is back on?

  • TDS Fan
    July 31, 2010 5:19 p.m.

    If going independent means we'll be more "dependent" on other Mid Majors to fit us in their schedule, I'm all for it!

  • Jimmy James
    July 31, 2010 5:22 p.m.

    "The problem is we despise the world and it's standards, but yet desperately seek their acceptance."

    maddog,

    As a Mormon myself, I think you just hit the nail on the head. That's really insightful. That's not to say that we all do that all the time, but, I can think of a number of instances where I'm guilty of the above.

  • redfeather
    July 31, 2010 5:29 p.m.

    Uteology

    You look it and prove that you're capable of doing basic research

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 5:41 p.m.

    All the Yewtah troll hater-ade aside...

    Harmon makes a lot of great points about the viability of BYU as an independent. The potential of having a relationship with ESPN that is in conjunction with our own rights to broadcast on BYU-TV is VERY promising.

    With the Utes gone, why waste our time in the MWC?? The MWC TV deal is PATHETIC both in terms of $$ and exposure.

    @cougarinboston

    Great post, I concur all of your points.

  • Bugoff
    July 31, 2010 5:41 p.m.

    @Uteology I tend to agree with your points. I am no advocating BYU go independent. I think they should get a TV deal like Texas and probably stay in the MTN and schedule quality opponents from the Big East/ACC etc.

    This is what I really think.

    1. The purpose of BYU sports is to improve awareness and to help create a positive image for the Church. The Church is buying ads in Jacksonville and 6 other cities too bolster it's image and refute misconceptions. If BYU is in the top 10 they are relevant and serve the same purpose indirectly.

    2. The 10-18 mill TV contract of a BCS conf affiliation would be nice but money is not the key issue with BYU sports. The coverage is the key issue.

    3. Even if BYU got a chance to go to the Big 12/PAC12 it may not be in their best interest. IF it got them a lot of national coverage it might be but they are going to lose a lot more often and not be ranked as high.

    4. The best option for now is the MTN plus their own channel.

  • Bugoff
    July 31, 2010 5:50 p.m.

    Going PAC12 was a no brainer for Utah. For BYU's situation is much more complicated.

    Utah get money and academic prestige.

    BYU needs national coverage and social/religious respect.

    All of BYU's options are complicated.

    The MTN provides little coverage and the Church is well known in all areas except TX.

    Going independent is not feasible as scheduling will be to hard. Further, the BCS will shift suddenly in the near future. The age of independents is over.

    The Texas arrangement and a move to super conferences are the two mega moves of the future.

    If BYU could go to the Big 12 North they would get additional coverage in states where the Church is less well known. They would also lose more games but might win the North and have a relevant playoff game with TX or OK reasonably often.

    For now the best option is to get GOOD and win the MTN and get ranked consistently in the top 10 while adding a BYU TV capability.

  • Bugoff
    July 31, 2010 6:03 p.m.

    BYU is capable of breaking the top 10 more often than once a decade. The big problem is that they choke once they get there and they blow bowl games.

    BSU and Utah at least deliver part of the time, once they get to the top and get an opportunity to knock off a big BCS team.

    BYU has a ways to go on the field. However, their recruiting seems better. If they could get better coverage the recruiting would get easier.

    BYU is still way too focused on Utah and surrounding states. It tends to be way too myopic. It's mission and student body are national/international. It's focus is local/regional.

  • Rock Of The Marne
    July 31, 2010 6:12 p.m.

    Here's the Deal ee oh with regards to BYU demanding much more of the MT West money pie as many on here have suggested. BYU athletic teams, contrary to the beliefs of many cougar fans, already have more than it's share of ill will felt by the fans of the other Mt. West teams towards them. Truthfully, much of this is likely due to how the Y fans put down the rest of the conference (including the U back in the dark das of the 1980s); arrogance breeds contempt. If you act like you are better than everyone else that is going to engender some strong negative feelings over time (WYO fans are definitely not fans of the Y). So if BYU demands more of the "kitty," they are going to tick off the rest of the teams and their fans in a severe way as you will be your hurting their programs financially; I don't think you have enough good will to pull it off. Leave the conference if you want, but don’t insult the rest of conference with demands for more of the limited available funds; thanks UofU and TCU in that department (BCS$).

  • GoUtah
    July 31, 2010 6:14 p.m.

    @skywalker

    It's a good thing the tds hasn't waisted its time trying to be one of the elite 40 teams to have played in a BCS bowl game.

    Also note that until the tds beats anyone ranked in the season's final Top 25 AP poll, they'll actually be deserving of a NC.

  • Tommy2Shoes
    July 31, 2010 6:26 p.m.

    BYU will stay the course in the MTN. Now that the U is almost gone from the scene I'm optimist that the Y will finally get to a BCS game within the next 3 years. The future is bright for the U and the Y. Let the rivalry die out and forge new ones with our loyal partners from Texas and Idaho.

  • Buster
    July 31, 2010 6:41 p.m.

    Uteology | 2:11 p.m. July 31, 2010

    "I think we can all agree that the National Stage is playing in prime time in January.
    If so only Utah has done it twice recently, the other schools have not.
    Utah has been making national history:
    1st mid-major to break the BcS
    1st mid-major to finish ranked #2
    1st mid-major to win 2 BcS bowls
    1st mid-major to get an invite to join the BcS cartel"
    ===

    Title of News Article:
    "Independence could be BYU's best option"

    Launces into a diatribe about Utah Football.

    How INSECURE are you poor Utah fans that it all has to be a comment about Utah?

    All Utah needs to do to be relevant to BYU fans is beat BYU more than once every four years in football, and at least show up in basketball. Maybe the Pac-11 will get some viewers out of the Rocky Mountain area when Utah becomes relevant in Utah...

    Stop telling everyone how good you are. When people know it without you telling them, that's when you are good...

    Lame...

  • Buster
    July 31, 2010 6:45 p.m.

    Rock Of The Marne | 6:12 p.m.

    It would be terrible to hurt anyone's feelings. Think of all those emotionally damaged people out there (Max hates me).

    Serious, Marne, if you can't handle college sports, there are soccer fields across the state where you can go watch kids play and get a certificate of participation...

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 7:01 p.m.

    "The big problem is that they choke once they get there and they blow bowl games"

    Yeah, because completely annihilating an Oregon State team that was 1 field goal away from the Rose Bowl was such a choke job....

  • Uteology
    July 31, 2010 7:13 p.m.

    redfeather | 5:29 p.m. July 31, 2010
    Uteology

    You look it and prove that you're capable of doing basic research.

    -------------

    But sir I did not make the claim thus why should I do the "research" for someone elses claim?

    Its like writing a term paper without giving the exact data and expecting the professor to look it up. I am not sure about BYU but at a "research" instaituion you would get an F for your work.






    @Buster | 6:41 p.m. July 31, 2010

    If you re-read the post it was to Bugoff who claimed Utah wasn't relevant on the national stage. I just provide some facts for him to refute.

    Sorry to hurt your feelings Mrs. Sensitive but the post wasn't about BYU nor was it directed at you.

  • DocSarvis
    July 31, 2010 7:17 p.m.

    BYU should do the right thing and give up athletics. Then they won't have to worry about all those money issues and can concentrate on what they claim is important to them.

  • Uteology
    July 31, 2010 7:25 p.m.

    VegasCoug | 7:01 p.m. July 31, 2010

    Big picture VegasCoug big pitcher. It's just like your mentality to look at 3 of 4 when its really 3 of 8 or 5 of 10.

    BYU has made 28 Bowl appearances, winning 10, losing 17, and tying 1.


    I personally was more impressed with the following because I was actaully rooting for BYU to win so that are SOS looked better in 2008:

    #16 10-2 BYU 21
    7-5 Arizona 31

  • Honest Abe
    July 31, 2010 7:36 p.m.

    BYU could go independent. They have everything to do so and nothing to lose. As a classy Ute fan, I wish BYU well. It could be a Wynn-win situation for all of us.

  • hedgehog
    July 31, 2010 7:59 p.m.

    What should be most alarming to BYU fans is that this type of proactive thinking needed to happen 10-15 years ago. Not yesterday.

    Y is it that Holmoe isn't taking the heat for falling asleep at the wheel??- while Hill strategically developed a dead program into a BCS busting, PAC12 team? Y?

    Me thinks that if the kewg fan would drop the blind obedience mode and demand progressive leadership positive things might happen.

    Kewg fan should be LIVID that four mid-major teams have reached a BCS game (6 games in total) before them, and yet all we hear about is '84 and long ago Doake awards.

  • clehman
    July 31, 2010 8:28 p.m.

    Please, please, please BYU. Go independent.

    Go independent in 2011. By 2015 when the program is bankrupt and not going to bowl games, maybe you'll shut down the football program for good.

  • jazzbball
    July 31, 2010 8:48 p.m.

    144 comments!? Lol.... BYU haters out in full force today.
    You guys DO know, its just a football team, right?
    Life CAN evolve around actual important things besides mindlessly
    Hating BYU

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 9:08 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Big picture VegasCoug big pitcher"

    Couldn't agree more about the big picture! You see, the only thing I ever see you Utes bring up and just harp on over and over and over.... and over... article after article after article...is bowl history. "2 BCS bowls"... 10-17-1... broken record... and that's all you guys can ever use because it's the only area where you guys have a leg up on BYU.

    But, as I always say, when an independent national media outlet did in fact look at the BIG PICTURE, taking all aspects of a program's history into account, we all know how that big picture looked, don't we??

    ESPN... Jan 23, 2009... all-time prestige rankings...

    25. BYU
    43. UTAH

    BIG PICTURE, BABY, BIG PICTURE...

    And by the way, bowl games and bowl only bowl games do not a program make.

    PROMINENT PROGRAMS WITH LOSING BOWL RECORDS
    Texas A&M... 13-18
    Oregon... 9-14
    Pitt... 11-15
    Florida... 18-19 (14-18 before Urb arrived)
    Ohio State... 19-22

    Utah has a had great bowl success the last 15 years... but what else???

  • MOUte
    July 31, 2010 9:20 p.m.

    @VegasCoug | 9:08 p.m. July 31, 2010

    "Utah has a had great bowl success the last 15 years... but what else???"


    Well...an admirable string to bowl victories and an invite to the PAC leaps to mind.

  • VegasCoug
    July 31, 2010 9:32 p.m.

    Here's the BIG PICTURE that ESPN's research department put together... let's look at some key categories ESPN esteemed as valuable accomplishments....

    WHO HAS THE EDGE?

    BOWL HISTORY: UTAH (Utes bowl record is very impressive and superior to BYU's, I have no problem conceeding that as a Cougar fan)

    TOP 25 FINISHES (AP poll): BYU (17 to 5)

    10+ WIN SEASONS: BYU (15 to 5)

    NATIONAL AWARD WINNERS: BYU (8 TO 0)

    HEISMAN: BYU (1 winner, 8 finalists; UTAH = 0 winners, 1 finalist)

    CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS: BYU (23 to 5 since 1970)

    CONSENSUS ALL AMERICANS: BYU (15 to 5)

    NFL 1ST ROUND PICKS (since 1970, cut-off year ESPN implemented): BYU (7 to 5)*

    * I acknowledge that Utah has had a superior track record of NFL draft picks the last few years; BYU likely to add another 1st rounder to it's resume soon with Matt Reynolds...

    And one more that is interesting...

    HALL OF FAMERS: BYU (6 to 1)**

    **Utah's 1 hall of famer is from the "leather helmet era"; all 6 of BYU's hall of famers are from the modern era.

    BIG PICTURE:

    25. BYU (476 pts)

    43. UTAH (264 pts)

  • moodyblue77
    July 31, 2010 9:58 p.m.

    Remember that this really only about football. The only championship that excludes Division I schools before they play.

    We may be talking only about relative TV independence for BYU football.

    It will never be like playing in the PAC 12, but intersectional games against top 10 competition on an irregular basis will be good for BYU and the larger fan base.

    A combination of KBYU, BYUTV, ESPN, and the Comcast networks would work better than what's out there now.

    If you go totally independent, who wants to play you regularly? You can't offer a national network TV game, like Notre Dame. Better to stay in a conference, negotiate big games on the road, get a good week to play Utah, and then wait to see if the BCS just breaks away from the NCAA. If that happens, then who knows what will happen. It will not be pretty.

    BYU can still count on Utah to work for them behind the scenes for now. The partnership may still be beneficial to both sides.

  • redandwhite
    July 31, 2010 10:03 p.m.

    @ Vegascoug Apparently that's enough!!

  • Floyd Johnson
    July 31, 2010 10:11 p.m.

    What if BYUTV signed a contract with Texas to broadcast their games. Texas secured the broadcast rights, but they lack the resources. No other school owned television program will be available to a relevant number of viewers in the near future. BYUTV provides an established platform and minimizes the obstacles. Texas would be given a percentage of commercial time for which they would sell advertising. Soon schools would be competing for Saturday air time on BYUTV. hmmmm...

  • Lt. Commander
    July 31, 2010 11:18 p.m.

    @Uteology

    Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, and South Florida were all invited into the BCS cartel years before Utah was.

    And, I'm not sure why you are bragging about finishing #2. The MWC has 2 teams who have finished #1.

  • Lt. Commander
    July 31, 2010 11:24 p.m.

    @Uteology

    Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, and South Florida were all invited to join the BCS cartel before Utah.

    And, I'm sure why you are bragging about finishing #2. The MWC has 2 teams who have finished #1. One of them did it twice.

  • Dave S
    July 31, 2010 11:25 p.m.

    I wish the Zoobs would at least win a bowl of any consequence before you think about the bigger picture. Why would you think going independent would be any big deal to anyone else in the country beside those of you who live in the "bubble".

    That whole independent thing has really worked well for Notre Dame lately hasn't it?

  • Johnson72
    July 31, 2010 11:37 p.m.

    Here is this story in a nutshell, BYU is jealous that the University of Utah got invited to the Pac-10 and not them.. long story short is if BYU would play on Sunday it would be them and not Colorado!!!

  • Bugoff
    Aug. 1, 2010 12:10 a.m.

    National relevance happens when you get into the top 10 and stay there. Every other ranked team's fans follow you hoping you will lose. Then you are relevant.

    BSU, TCU and Utah have been able to do that a couple of times. BYU has to take that step.

    The other way you become nationally relevant is playing and beating a top 10 school during the season. However, that only helps for a little while if you later lose.

    Joining a major conference only helps if you get into the top 10. It may give you more money and more prestige. It may get you scheduled against more good opponents but it does not make you relevant.

    You are only as good as your current record. If you lose you fade fast. How relevant is Texas Tech? How relevant is USC this year? Since they can't play in a major bowl they are no threat, other than to the teams they may beat.

    BYU has to have better TV coverage. They also have to get the talent to get into and stay in the top 10.

  • Buster
    Aug. 1, 2010 1:12 a.m.

    Uteology | 7:13 p.m.
    @Buster | 6:41 p.m.
    "If you re-read the post it was to Bugoff who claimed Utah wasn't relevant on the national stage. I just provide some facts for him to refute."

    What, Bugoff gave you homework?
    And you did it?

    What does the "information" that you gave him have to do with "Independence could be BYU's best option"?

    I guess it's gotta be all about Utah. If it's about BYU maybe going independent, it's all about the Utes. Q:"Should BYU go Independent"? A:"Utah has ..."

    Neato, it's all about the Utes again... Me, Me, Me Me...

    You guys love to see neat things written in writing about yourselves, by yourselves... LOL

    Can't you guys just shut the lights off on your way out?

  • Uteology
    Aug. 1, 2010 2:24 a.m.

    Lt. Commander|11:24 p.m. July 31, 2010
    @Uteology

    Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, and South Florida were all invited to join the BCS cartel before Utah.

    ------

    I stand corrected, my bad.

    Under the current BCS system a mid-major has never been #1. Utah was the first to finsh 4th and 2nd.

  • Uteology
    Aug. 1, 2010 2:46 a.m.

    @VegasCoug|9:32 p.m. July 31, 2010

    First, It was Bugoff who you quoted about choking in bowl games. He is BYU fan, not a Ute.

    Second, big picture doesn't start in the 70s if your going beyond the MWC.

    Third, those prestige rankings mean diddly unless your saying Colorodo #22 is a better program today then BYU, Utah, TCU, and Boise. All it shows is BYU dominated the WAC. Good for you, so has Boise.

    Fourth, all those individual awards and top 25 rankings yet still a mid-major.

  • NYC Ute fan
    Aug. 1, 2010 7:44 a.m.

    You are kidding? BYU does not have that kind of clout.
    I live on the East coast. Where is their audience?

    In truth, who really cares how BYU is doing in a national context. They have not been relevant for years.

    An independent network? Wow! How to detach yourself from the real market and become invisible.

  • NYC Ute fan
    Aug. 1, 2010 8:03 a.m.

    OK...now I have read all of the comments.
    BYU fans talk as if they have the same clout as ND. That in itself is totally delusional. You would have to have all of the members of the the LDS church supporting every game 100% of the time, all of the time.

    Utah made the right moves, not the least being that it had national success.

    BYU was the big deal when I was growing up in SLC. Not to me but to so many people. Utah was the second class team. Yet, even when I was there you could feel the Utes changing.

    Kind of sad for BYU to be left hanging. Kind of funny too. Utah earned their way out and to me the Utah legislature etc really handled this perfectly by staying out of the way.

  • patriot
    Aug. 1, 2010 9:13 a.m.

    I am convinced that if the Y had of gotten invited to the Big 12 they would have be a force in that conference. Recruiting is the life blood of any program and recruiting would have exploded for the Y.. in a positive way. However none of that happened and the Y is now left to figure out how to recruit with nothing to offer recruits - a BIG problem. The BEST LDS football players are going to go to the U now and the Y will be left with the left overs which will further hurt their program overall. TCU and Boise will take the top spots in the MWC and the Y will be a has been most likely unless they can convince the Big 12 to change their minds and expand this year. How long will the LDS church setttle for mediocrity in Football ... 3-6 win seasons year after year? I would say going independent might a better option than staying in the MWC because the schedulue will be better but can you convince recruits to come?? I doubt it. The Big 12 is the only hope for the Y.

  • Uteology
    Aug. 1, 2010 11:24 a.m.

    patriot|9:13 a.m. Aug. 1, 2010

    BYU is not going 3-6 this year or in the future playing in the MWC or being indapendent. Over the last decade according to Scouts their average class ranks in the 40s. Even if they fall to around the 70s, which similare to Utah and TCU, they'll be one of the top dogs in the MWC.


    @Buster
    Yea it was, considered him schooled. In fact by the sounds of it so were you.

  • mr. ideas
    Aug. 1, 2010 2:14 p.m.

    Independence plan # 1

    1. Get all ex- cougs from the MTN.
    2. Use new hd broadcast center.
    3. Utah and usu will be begging to play each year.
    4. Suu, weber state... That's 2 more games.
    5. Northern Iowa.
    6. 5 More games from the Mexican university football conference.
    7. San Diego state-- for all the socal zoobes.
    8. Wyoming -- just because...

    9. Get all ex zoobies that are selling cell phones and house alarms to man the phones and hit the pavement.

    10. Start selling pyramid financial plans for the network.

    11. Use extra tithing money that is coming into slc from the PAC 12.

  • Duckhunter
    Aug. 1, 2010 9:49 p.m.

    To the ute fans that think they are relevent and BYU is not I would say the ultimate judge of that is the market place. I spent the last week in the Bay Area and happened to go into the sports apparel shop on Pier 39.

    Funny thing but they had a pac 10 section for apparel that had every pac 10 teams gear, including Colorado, but no utah gear. I thought this strange and asked why and they said because no one had ever even requested any and those decisions are made based on whose gear they think will sell.

    Another funny thing was they had an entire section of BYU gear there and I asked about that and they said other than the Cal and Stanford gear it was probably their top seller for college gear so they keep alot on hand.

    Relevance is a funny thing isn't it. Some think they are but no one really cares about them while those same people think someone else isn't but their gear sells all over the country.

    I'm sure you ute fans will be over there watching your team get waxed so you can check yourself.

  • Y Ask Y
    Aug. 4, 2010 1:10 p.m.

    A broadcast center is useless unless BYU is playing against opponents from big, reputable conferences. Nobody wants to see BYU Football when they play Northern Iowa, Eastern Washington, Utah State, and a regular diet of bottom-dwelling MWC and WAC teams! In the final analysis, the ASSET that trumps all others is a winning record against top teams from top conferences! That is something BYU does not have. Going Independent will put BYU in no-man's land, just like Notre Dame, Army, and Navy are today.

    Nobody wants to play a nobody. Only if BYU can dominate a strong conference can they be somebody and get games scheduled against top teams from top conferences. That is the nature of college football today. Independents are nobodies.

  • Y Ask Y
    Aug. 4, 2010 7:06 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    You can't be serious... The realighnment of the Pac 10 only happened a few weeks ago. Most major sports news outlets still don't list Utah in the Pac 10 (look on Sports Illustrated) on their websites. And you think a San Francisco store should have Utah apparel on their racks already? And you think the lack of Utah apparel proves that Utah is irrelevant?

    Really?

    did you forget to wake up this morning before you put on your slippers and took your place in front of the computer?