The Jazz burn themselves over and over. It is bad management. After Millsap they
should have learned. They knew they were going to resign Mathews by
Christmas. They should have negotiated at least a team option for next year at
that time. Explain to me why ALL role players' contracts do not
include a team option year. Fes comes to mind. Why they mismanage
role players is beyond me. They had all of the leverage at Christmas. If Mathews
did not want to sign an extension then they could just have given him less
minutes and less of a role and kept Brewer. They should have signed
Mathews before they traded Brewer. Don't tell me Mathews would have refused to
sign anything reasonable before he was the starter. The Jazz knew they were
going to make him the starter and move Brewer. There are major
problems in the front office. Further, they refuse to learn from their mistakes.
They are not as bad as MN, MEM, DET or maybe LAC but they are
certainly not managed as well as they should be. They are full of costly
unexplainable quirks.Small wonder they are over the lux tax.
I have lost faith in management. Kevin O Connor has made so many mistakes
playing it safe that we are stuck in a cycle of mediocrity. That is why the
Hayward pick was booed. Safe. Always safe. Give us change. Give us some hope.
Something different to watch. We have seen this movie before and we already know
how it ends. The Miller's loyalty has always been considered a great
asset, though they should be reminded that blind loyalty is really stupidity.
When do they hold the staff accountable? Or do they even care about winning;
probably not as long as we sheep continue to buy their product.
Hey Rock,How many "top of the line luxury items" seem to be
interested in the JAZZ?
I think the max for Mathews would be 4 million, maybe 4.5 million if it’s
front loaded. I really like Mathews but the fact is that the 2 guard is the
deepest position in basketball. Yes Mathews is one of the better defenders on
the team, but he’s also only 6'4" so most 2 guards can put up a shot
against him regardless of how well he’s playing defense.If
Portland offers him a contract of 6 million we have to let him walk. That
contract would be poison for Utah, but it would be especially venomous for
Portland. If Portland wants to pay 6 mil a year for a guy that will only get 6
minutes a game at his best position, then that would help Utah more than it
would Portland. But I hope we can keep him.
Oh Jim Marshall....O'conner is the best GM out there. Small market
jazz, no free agents that want to be here and he has managed to keep the team,
actually make the team competitive again. Absolutle stud, he is the one that
needs the pay raise. Alot of Jazz fans as yourself are so unrealistic as to what
a GM has control over. Condider yourself lucky...
Wesley matthews would fit in at Portland's system but like mentioned already, he
will ride the bench.Obviosuly Roy is the starter and All-Star on
Portland and if Rudy stays, he is roy's backup, but if Rudy goes, Matthews will
become Roy's backup and perhaps Portland's overall 6th man! Go
jim Marshall:finally an intelligent post
I'm pretty confident he won't gen an offer any higher than CJ did with the
Thunder. If that's the case I'd match it. But like mentioned above, I probably
wouldn't pay more than 4mil. Portland is just waiting to see what Rudy does;
Matthews is their plan B. There is no room for him on that team right now, and
if they were dumb enough to offer a 4mil/yr contract for a player they wont use,
let them do it, it will only help the jazz save money and get deeper while the
Blazers stockpile 1 position.
I think Matthews is a valuable player now, but even more so in the future,
because he has a tremendous work ethic. He will get better. I would go as high
as 7 million on Matthews, and I think the Jazz will match any offer for him. If
your not going to resign Korver (he will most likely cost 5-7 million), then you
have to resign Matthews. You can't let them both go. The whole reason we traded
Brewer was to give the spot over to Wesley. If you consider he's our starting
two guard next season, 5-7 million per season is a steal How many other STARTING
two guards in the league make that little of a salary? Not many...if any. If you
consider your paying 6-7 million for a guy who will be starting, and not just a
bench player, that's a bargain basement price. Just depends on your perspective,
and what point of view your looking at it from. The guy is an elite defender.
Even Kobe gave him his props after the Lakers series.
author mentions matthews was "one" of Utah's best defenders ? Not only is he the
BEST defender Utah has had in a very long time, he's at the top of the list for
being the BEST defender at his position !!!! I watched many of his games living
in N.Y. & he's only going to get better.He is level headed & respectful "so
far". D-Will gives him high praises so far. When he developes his offensive
skills as the years go by, he will be an ALL-STAR in 3 years. Hardly anybody in
the NBA likes to or plays above average defense (lazy)..WHEN YOU GET A YOUNG KID
WHO'S TAKING CHARGES ON MELO & KOBE, YOU BETTER BACK UP THE BRINKS TRUCK.If
Portland continues to go after your players & forces Utah to pay-up, then KOC
needs to start looking at Portland players & force their hand.
If anything it would hurt the Jazz losing Matthews. Duh.Either the
Jazz lose him to Portland, Portland does give him an offer and Jazz match it,
and its will hurt them financially, or nothing happens and he stays with Utah.
Out of those 3 things that can happen, 2 of the the 3 are a negative
for the Jazz. So the odds are stocked against Utah again.
Matthews is good but he's not great. Is he really that rare of a find, or does
Matthews prove that there are plenty of guys outside of the league that are
ready to contribute?Its something that isn't discussed enough and
quite frankly should be. Two years ago Morrow came in and lead the
league in 3 point shooting. Last year it was Matthews. There is plenty of
thirsty talent that the league isn't picking up in the draft... is it really
worth it to give Matthews $5+ million???
As far as Boozer - The Jazz gave him an offer (not quite max money for not quite
max years. Had they given the max (as Atlanta did with Joe Johnson) they would
be negotiating with them right now. Currently - Boozer, Stoudemire
and Lee are going to New Jersey, New York, Chicago and Miami to see what they
are going to get. The problem is that all the teams are waiting for James, Wade
and Bosh to sign before they give the leftover money to players.I
think that New York give Stoudemire max deal soon. They have to believe that
they have almost zero chance of signing James without another.Matthews will be back. Hopefully no teams offers the full mid level exception
- I don't see that happening. (Portland won't they are going to use the
exception on a PG) If the Jazz do get a toxic offer and don't resign Boozer then
that might be good. Lets say it 4 years 15 million. But the first year is 6
million. That means we get Matthews for 3 years at 3 million a year. Pretty
good bargain for a starting shooting guard
re: bugoff"The Jazz burn themselves over and over. It is bad
management. After Millsap they should have learned."How so?Over the life of the contract Millsap was signed for a fair market value
price. They did not overpay him. The Jazz plan to keep him so how is it they
were burned? Fans never get it.Its simple really.Your upside is you can always match AND you might get your player for
less than market value if someone does not make an offer.Downside?
You could lose your player but only if someone overpays him which the Jazz were
not going to do anyways. So....I'm still waiting for the downside.Please do share.The Jazz play it smart and the same way most other
teams play it, that know what they are doing. There is more upside than
downside.I'm guessing your idea is to go and offer him what right
now? The full midlevel? Do you think he would sign it if he believed he could
get more elsewhere? No. Would he take a deal for $2million? no. Bottom line
he wants every dime he can get and the Jazz then decide.Simple.
re: Truefanyou are true alright..truely clueless.Matthews is not even worth $6 million let alone 7.This team would
be bankrupt tomorrow with fans like you running it. Paying $7 million for a
tweener.Tweeners are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Matthews is not
even very athletic. He is BARELY tall enough (almost too short) for his position
given who he has to matchup against/defend. He is an average shooter at best.
He is a hard worker and not afraid to be physical which compensates for some of
his other mediocre areas.He has been in college for four years which
means he is matured. He does not nor will he have alot more upside. He will
probably learn to play smarter but his skillset is his skillset.$7
million for a player like matthews is clearly too much money. That is only a
million less than Millsap who is delivering double doubles on a regular
basis!What planet are you from?
Hey ToadfrodoSantaClause,Have you every said anything positive about the
Jazz or it's managment? Naysayers are a bore. The fact that you are always
critical does not make you a critical thinker. The only praise you ever give is
to those who can match your sardonic cynicism and dreary droning.
re: RickMatthews an allstar?Wow.What meds
are you on? Evidently not enough.Matthews will NEVER sniff an
allstar game.Everyone has gotten so caught up in the feel good story
of the undrafted rookie making it.Here is a reality check for you.
New top 10 rookies (some stars/go-to guys for their teams) get around $3
million/YEAR (give or take) for the first two years and then teams get the
option for year 3 and 4.Kyle Korver opted in last seaon because he
could not get $6 million last year...the best 3pt shooter in the league!Niwits are saying Matthews is worth $7 million?A completely
bankrupt organization in 10 minutes if you clowns were running it.Players Matthews size and athletic abiliity are not hard to find. He is a
hard worker and physical defender and is better at that than many but not even
close to an allstar. Get serious.He is not athletic enough to have
alot of upside...that is why he was completely passed over in the draft.
Matthews is a nice role player and I definitely want him but NEVER over pay for
a role player.
@ JFFRI agree. In fact, I put 4 million as the absolute max I am
willing to match. If Portland wants to give him the full midlevel, let them
and he can enjoy sitting the bench behind Brandon Roy. He is a nice player, but
not worth a ridiculous offer.
Once we knew he was really good management/coaching should have sacraficed his
playing time and cut it off last year so that he wouldnt be as desirable in this
years FA .... and we could have had him for a bargin for several years... but we
are too stupid to think long term like that our stupid brass accually thought we
had a chance to make the finals with no height/shotblocking and they obviously
still do....so we traded brewer and showcased him to the rest of the league ..
making him look great in our system now everyone wants him ... good job jazz
Does anyone know how we can use that trade exception ( i think thats what we
got) from Matt Harpring...i always thought those were very very valued and
Gee John Crotty, do not dare be critical or you will hear from SNarkThat would scare me.....right.
Keep Matthews if the price is reasonable. He's better than CJ and a price
slightly above CJs isn't unreasonable.Brad ... forget about Korver
... the Jazz should not re-sign him. There are much better options.Boozer ... ADIOS ... have fun in Orlando, Chicago or New Jersey. At least we
will get to BOO you twice a year.
I'll say it again...like with Millsap, the Jazz will match any offer for
Matthews. If they don't, post back, and I'll eat crow. I'll admit when I'm
wrong, and I think Matthews will be our starting two guard next year and he'll
most likely be making around 4-6 million. The Jazz showed with both Miles, and
Millsap that they are willing to match what other teams offer. I don't see
Matthews being any different, and breaking the trend. I do feel some club out
there (maybe Portland) will throw a fairly big contract Matthews way.
Todd, come on big guy, Marshall's comments were anything but intelligent!!!
You are thinking with emotions not smarts, you want the Jazz to win so bad your
not being smart(intelligent) about your comments or reasoning. Change for change
sake it not smart. That is what the Clippers and GS's of the league do and look
where that has gotten them.The Jazz are not mediocre, they are a top 5 to
8 team in the league year in and year out. They need to make changes but nothing
major(yet), right now the financial situation makes bringing in FA's difficult,
next year things could be different.For now the Jazz need to develop
their young players and see if there are 1 or 2 FA's they can bring in at a
decent price that can help. Don't get so emotional thinking nothing is
being done, I guarantee you KOC is working the phones to try to find players
that will make the Jazz better. Like I said before you have to be smart about
it. Making changes just to make changes and give us something different to watch
is not smart.
In case you haven't noticed with any of the free agent signings over the last
couple days, guys who are "average" players are getting deals paying them
considerably more then what they are worth. Explain to me why the same thing is
going to happen with Matthews? You always have to overpay big time in free
agency, or at the end of the day, your cupboard is bare. Do I think Matthews is
worth more then 5 million? Probably not. But are the Jazz likely going to have
to fork out that much money to keep him? My guess is yes. Would it be a smart
decision? In my opinion...yes. Five to six million dollar contracts in the NBA
are "chump change"...especially for a guy who very well would be in your
starting lineup. I don't understand you cheap skate fans who say Matthews isn't
worth 5-7 million. If anybody deserves a major pay raise it's Wesley. Your not a
fan of his game, and underestimate his worth to the team if you don't think so.
Captain L makes a great point. Let's look at the Mavericks. Since being
runner's up to the Heat, the Mavericks have made major changes to their roster
more than once. Last year they brought in Caron Butler (all-star) and Haywood.
Where did that get them? They have never made it back to the finals since the
Heat series and are way over the luxury tax. In fact, didn't they get ousted in
the first round last year after earning the #2 seed? Yeah, that's what I
thought.Ah, Portland Trail Blazers. As active as ever in your Jazz
obsession. Truly, you are one of the most insecure people I've ever seen on
Ah, T-spoon you are the most fun person to read from. I love how you think the
Jazz can just choose players, how is your 7.25 an hour jon going? You are the
most insecure person I've ever seen on these boards.Cannot wait to
get Wesley Matthews up to Portland so he can actually be on a contending team
and team that actually has a bright future.
I agree with Bugoff that when the Jazz traded Brewer or right before they should
have offered Matthews an extension.Surely he would have agreed to a
couple years at 1.5-2 million a year. We are going to get nothing
for Boozer. They needed to trade him before the deadline but they are always
afraid to make moves even when the best possible outcome is western conference
semis.Making a move isn't the end of the world. Do something KOC
Oh, I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of my MASTER'S DEGREE!Lol Trail Blazer. Your purile comments just prove my assessment of the
kind of person you are. I'm sorry that Portland continues to be out-played by
the lowly Jazz, but hey, that's life!
The Jazz have to over pay for second or third tier players, because top levels
guys are not going to come here. If we could offer a top flight star max money,
they still wouldn't sign the contract (and no...I don't consider Boozer to be a
"top flight" star...espcially at the TIME we signed him). If we don't overpay
for guys like Millsap, Miles and Matthews we end up in the lottery. We aren't
the Lakers, but if we want to win a championship (or any team in the league for
that matter) you have to at least go deep into the luxury tax. The Lakers spent
something like 90 million last year on player salaries, and I believe after the
Brewer trade we were hovering around the 70 million mark. Guess what...that 20
million dollar difference really showed in the playoffs. You don't pay like the
big boys, then you belong on the side lines. People who are tight with the purse
strings don't belong in the fantasy world that is the modern day NBA (where
players like Rudy Gay are making MAX money).
I agree that Rudy Gay is getting over-paid with his new contract, but I don't
think his is as bad as what the Hawks are offering to Joe Johnson. 20 million a
year for 6 years. Ouch! I can only think of a few players that actually demand
that big of a pay day, and Joe Johnson sure isn't one of them.My
guess is $2.0 to 2.5 million a year is fair market value for Matthews. Isn't
that what Brewer was making?
T-spoon...Great job on admitting that the Jazz are terrible, now you
just need to get all of the other Jazz "Fans" to admit are realize that too.
re: P Trail BlazersJazz terrible? Second round of the playoffs?
Where was Portland? What was the Jazz/Blazer series record this year?Go back to your hole troll.
Ha ha, your rebuttals are getting worse by the minute Trail Blazer!
Just to answer the question of the fan above:a trade exemption comes when
you send off more in a trade than you get back, ie Harpring and Brewer. From
the date of each deal, you have 1 year to make any other trades you wish, to do
the opposite. You can take back MORE in trade, than you would normally be able
to, up to any amounts you still have in trade exceptions, and then the normal
salary matching rules apply where they have to be within certain ranges, I
believe it's 125% + 100k, but don't quote me on that.
TrueFan said: "...I would go as high as 7 million on Matthews, and I think
the Jazz will match any offer for him...5-7 million per season is a steal
How many other STARTING two guards in the league make that little of a salary?
Not many...if any."Actually many teams do. Here's the list:Stephen Jackson, Charlotte - $7.6 MilAnthony Parker, Cleveland -
$2.6 MilArron Affalo, Denver - $1 milBrandon Rush, Indiana - $1.6
milEric Gordon, LA Clippers - $2.3 milOJ Mayo, Memphis - $3.4 milCorey Brewer, Minnesota - $2.4 milJohn Salmons, Milwaukee - $5.4 milCourtney Lee, New Jersey - $1.0 milMorris Peterson, New Orleans - $6.2
milThabo Sefolosha, Oklahoma City - $2.7 milBrandon Roy, Portland -
$3.9 milBeno Udrih, Sacramento - $6.0 milKeith Bogans, San Antonio -
$1.0 milRandy Foye, Washington - $3.5 milIf you include Utah,
over 1/2 of the league employs starting shooting guards for fairly low pay,
compared to Kobe, Vince, etc. We should offer Matthews a starting salary of
$3-4 million. Giving him $5-7 mil per year isn't a steal, it's overpaying.
Re: Portland Trail BlazersThe Blazers have Roy, Aldridge and a fragile
center named Oden....beyond that they don't have much to look forward to. It's
going to be a long season in Portland....
Why would Matthews go to Portland, to ride the bench, when he could stay in
Utah, and start? If anything, he would go to a big-market team that needs a
starter and take mid-level money for that. I think he's appreciative of what
the Jazz gave him, a CHANCE to play in the league, and he's not likely to bite
that hand quite so fast. Remember, the sophomore jinx hits MANY players hard
and fast, after their tendencies are known, film is studied, it's much easier to
guard them. If Matthews stays, he'll likely sign for 2 years at $2-3 mil per,
which gives him time to grow and develop into a better player, and THEN we can
figure if he's worth the mid-level or more. But not yet. That's why the rookie
salary structure is in place for drafted guys, and it's worked well, because it
gives teams time to evaluate the player and see if they're worth the big $$$'s.
Correct me if I'm wrong Jazz fans, but Portland is a team that is already over
the salary cap with only 9 players under contract. Thus, they need 4 more
players. Being that they are already over the cap, I don't see them offering
more than 2 or 3 million to Matthews. Last year when they tried to
sign Millsap, they had cap space. When they didn't get Millsap, they used up
that space on Andre Miller.Portland would be very foolish to give a
big offer to Matthews. They aren't a team to worry about in signing Matthews.
Hey you guys with all the funny money. The Jazz didn't sign WM to a higher
contract because they were over the luxury tax so a new contract would have the
Jazz paying double the amount of the contract. For every dollar they would have
paid WM, another dollar would go to luxury tax. Understand how the game is
played or don't show your lack of it. There are some teams with that do not
have money limitations while the rest of the league does. So the Jazz must
spend their money very wisely. As I have said before, there are only so money
offensive plays per game so how will you spread it around. There is more than
paper talent. It is what happens out on the floor. Heart and chemistry mean
alot. Go Jazz.
I cannot understand why we let guys like Milsap and Mathews become free agents.
Why let players that one should know they are keeping in town hit the open
market and let teams, like say Portland, structure their offers so it limits
Utah in cap space if those players stay in town. I agree, everyone knew Mathews
was a keeper by Christmas, so extend him then!!! Not only do you not have to
worry about teams front-loading contract offers to force you over the cap, and
the overall cost is lower. That's how it works, when you draft a player you can
give him an extension before his rookie contract expires. It works for the
teams because they can usually save money compared to what a free agent market
would dictate and it works for the players because they can get more money
faster. O'Conner better add some talent around Deron or he will leave town when
his contract expires. He trades away Deon's homeboy Brewer, who is a proven
player and can play SF with Wes at SG, but resigns Miles for 3.7 million/year
who still unproven.
@snarkJust tell me what iz there to be positive about? the jazz had
forever to do something with boozer, just read that denver is willing to trade
Anthony if he won't sign an extension but not the jazz,we would rather let them
walk for nothing, then we draft Opie! with paul George and Ed Davis still on the
board. Ya,great summer to be a jazz fan.
Jazz this, Jazz that. The owner of the Jazz should just move his team to
Seattle, a city that actually deserves an NBA franchise. Salt Lake City does not
deserve a franchise.
Re: Portland Trail BlazersLike I said....this is going to be a long and
painful season for the Blazers this year. Sorry....
Yea Portland Trail Blazer, that's why Phil Jackson said the Jazz have the best
fans in the NBA.
Don;t be suproised if the Jazz over pay to kepp matthews,that is
theor modus operandi. over paid to keep ostertagg, over paid
to keep AK, over paid to keep millsap, over paid to keep korver, over paid for boozer,it goes on an on, they
OVER value their talent. put a very high premium on continuity and over paying to keep thoer mediocre talent.IS
really any wonder they haven't won a championship?
Maybe if Matthew goes to Portland with an overpaid contract, we can get back
Ronnie Brewer, since he is now unrestricted. Kevin Oconnor comes out like a
bandit in that deal.
We don't need or want Brewer back here PERIOD! Not that he isn't a good guy and
team mate, but he proved he does not have the skills people once thought he had.
If the Jazz were smart, which they are not, they would trade Korver, C.J. or
Mathews to Minnesota for Kevin Love and be glad to get it done. He is a low paid
"baller" that can play PF or center, plus defend. Minnesota has an overload of
The Jazz definitely overpaid for Ostertag and AK, but Milsap will make 6.2
million this year and Boozer is about to get a substantial raise by some other
team. How do you figure the Jazz overpaid on those guys? As for
Korver, the Jazz probably overpaid for him, but the trade that brought him here
made the Jazz instantly better, so it wasn’t a bad move. If the Jazz want
to contend, or even just make the playoffs they have to be willing to take