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Brad Rock: Utah Jazz should be careful paying for Matthews

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  • Bugoff
    July 2, 2010 12:38 a.m.

    The Jazz burn themselves over and over. It is bad management. After Millsap they should have learned.

    They knew they were going to resign Mathews by Christmas. They should have negotiated at least a team option for next year at that time.

    Explain to me why ALL role players' contracts do not include a team option year. Fes comes to mind.

    Why they mismanage role players is beyond me. They had all of the leverage at Christmas. If Mathews did not want to sign an extension then they could just have given him less minutes and less of a role and kept Brewer.

    They should have signed Mathews before they traded Brewer. Don't tell me Mathews would have refused to sign anything reasonable before he was the starter. The Jazz knew they were going to make him the starter and move Brewer.

    There are major problems in the front office. Further, they refuse to learn from their mistakes.

    They are not as bad as MN, MEM, DET or maybe LAC but they are certainly not managed as well as they should be. They are full of costly unexplainable quirks.

    Small wonder they are over the lux tax.

  • Jim Marshall
    July 2, 2010 5:31 a.m.

    I have lost faith in management. Kevin O Connor has made so many mistakes playing it safe that we are stuck in a cycle of mediocrity. That is why the Hayward pick was booed. Safe. Always safe. Give us change. Give us some hope. Something different to watch. We have seen this movie before and we already know how it ends.

    The Miller's loyalty has always been considered a great asset, though they should be reminded that blind loyalty is really stupidity. When do they hold the staff accountable? Or do they even care about winning; probably not as long as we sheep continue to buy their product.

  • What's up?
    July 2, 2010 5:40 a.m.

    Hey Rock,

    How many "top of the line luxury items" seem to be interested in the JAZZ?

  • byronbca
    July 2, 2010 8:46 a.m.

    I think the max for Mathews would be 4 million, maybe 4.5 million if it’s front loaded. I really like Mathews but the fact is that the 2 guard is the deepest position in basketball. Yes Mathews is one of the better defenders on the team, but he’s also only 6'4" so most 2 guards can put up a shot against him regardless of how well he’s playing defense.

    If Portland offers him a contract of 6 million we have to let him walk. That contract would be poison for Utah, but it would be especially venomous for Portland. If Portland wants to pay 6 mil a year for a guy that will only get 6 minutes a game at his best position, then that would help Utah more than it would Portland.

    But I hope we can keep him.

  • johntakarl
    July 2, 2010 9:12 a.m.

    Oh Jim Marshall....

    O'conner is the best GM out there. Small market jazz, no free agents that want to be here and he has managed to keep the team, actually make the team competitive again. Absolutle stud, he is the one that needs the pay raise. Alot of Jazz fans as yourself are so unrealistic as to what a GM has control over. Condider yourself lucky...

  • Portland Trail Blazers
    July 2, 2010 9:23 a.m.

    Wesley matthews would fit in at Portland's system but like mentioned already, he will ride the bench.

    Obviosuly Roy is the starter and All-Star on Portland and if Rudy stays, he is roy's backup, but if Rudy goes, Matthews will become Roy's backup and perhaps Portland's overall 6th man!

    Go Blazers!

  • toddfromsantaana
    July 2, 2010 9:26 a.m.

    jim Marshall:

    finally an intelligent post

  • Large Tuna
    July 2, 2010 9:44 a.m.

    I'm pretty confident he won't gen an offer any higher than CJ did with the Thunder. If that's the case I'd match it. But like mentioned above, I probably wouldn't pay more than 4mil. Portland is just waiting to see what Rudy does; Matthews is their plan B. There is no room for him on that team right now, and if they were dumb enough to offer a 4mil/yr contract for a player they wont use, let them do it, it will only help the jazz save money and get deeper while the Blazers stockpile 1 position.

  • TrueFan
    July 2, 2010 9:50 a.m.

    I think Matthews is a valuable player now, but even more so in the future, because he has a tremendous work ethic. He will get better. I would go as high as 7 million on Matthews, and I think the Jazz will match any offer for him. If your not going to resign Korver (he will most likely cost 5-7 million), then you have to resign Matthews. You can't let them both go. The whole reason we traded Brewer was to give the spot over to Wesley. If you consider he's our starting two guard next season, 5-7 million per season is a steal How many other STARTING two guards in the league make that little of a salary? Not many...if any. If you consider your paying 6-7 million for a guy who will be starting, and not just a bench player, that's a bargain basement price. Just depends on your perspective, and what point of view your looking at it from. The guy is an elite defender. Even Kobe gave him his props after the Lakers series.

  • Rick
    July 2, 2010 9:54 a.m.

    author mentions matthews was "one" of Utah's best defenders ? Not only is he the BEST defender Utah has had in a very long time, he's at the top of the list for being the BEST defender at his position !!!! I watched many of his games living in N.Y. & he's only going to get better.He is level headed & respectful "so far". D-Will gives him high praises so far. When he developes his offensive skills as the years go by, he will be an ALL-STAR in 3 years. Hardly anybody in the NBA likes to or plays above average defense (lazy)..WHEN YOU GET A YOUNG KID WHO'S TAKING CHARGES ON MELO & KOBE, YOU BETTER BACK UP THE BRINKS TRUCK.If Portland continues to go after your players & forces Utah to pay-up, then KOC needs to start looking at Portland players & force their hand.

  • Portland Trail Blazers
    July 2, 2010 9:57 a.m.

    If anything it would hurt the Jazz losing Matthews. Duh.

    Either the Jazz lose him to Portland, Portland does give him an offer and Jazz match it, and its will hurt them financially, or nothing happens and he stays with Utah.

    Out of those 3 things that can happen, 2 of the the 3 are a negative for the Jazz. So the odds are stocked against Utah again.

  • JFFR
    July 2, 2010 10:21 a.m.

    Matthews is good but he's not great. Is he really that rare of a find, or does Matthews prove that there are plenty of guys outside of the league that are ready to contribute?

    Its something that isn't discussed enough and quite frankly should be.

    Two years ago Morrow came in and lead the league in 3 point shooting. Last year it was Matthews. There is plenty of thirsty talent that the league isn't picking up in the draft... is it really worth it to give Matthews $5+ million???

  • blauch
    July 2, 2010 10:30 a.m.

    As far as Boozer - The Jazz gave him an offer (not quite max money for not quite max years. Had they given the max (as Atlanta did with Joe Johnson) they would be negotiating with them right now.

    Currently - Boozer, Stoudemire and Lee are going to New Jersey, New York, Chicago and Miami to see what they are going to get. The problem is that all the teams are waiting for James, Wade and Bosh to sign before they give the leftover money to players.

    I think that New York give Stoudemire max deal soon. They have to believe that they have almost zero chance of signing James without another.

    Matthews will be back. Hopefully no teams offers the full mid level exception - I don't see that happening. (Portland won't they are going to use the exception on a PG) If the Jazz do get a toxic offer and don't resign Boozer then that might be good. Lets say it 4 years 15 million. But the first year is 6 million. That means we get Matthews for 3 years at 3 million a year. Pretty good bargain for a starting shooting guard

  • Jazz Source
    July 2, 2010 10:39 a.m.

    re: bugoff

    "The Jazz burn themselves over and over. It is bad management. After Millsap they should have learned."

    How so?

    Over the life of the contract Millsap was signed for a fair market value price. They did not overpay him. The Jazz plan to keep him so how is it they were burned?

    Fans never get it.

    Its simple really.

    Your upside is you can always match AND you might get your player for less than market value if someone does not make an offer.

    Downside? You could lose your player but only if someone overpays him which the Jazz were not going to do anyways. So....I'm still waiting for the downside.

    Please do share.

    The Jazz play it smart and the same way most other teams play it, that know what they are doing. There is more upside than downside.

    I'm guessing your idea is to go and offer him what right now? The full midlevel? Do you think he would sign it if he believed he could get more elsewhere? No. Would he take a deal for $2million? no. Bottom line he wants every dime he can get and the Jazz then decide.

    Simple.

  • Jazz Source
    July 2, 2010 10:46 a.m.

    re: Truefan

    you are true alright..truely clueless.

    Matthews is not even worth $6 million let alone 7.

    This team would be bankrupt tomorrow with fans like you running it. Paying $7 million for a tweener.

    Tweeners are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Matthews is not even very athletic. He is BARELY tall enough (almost too short) for his position given who he has to matchup against/defend. He is an average shooter at best. He is a hard worker and not afraid to be physical which compensates for some of his other mediocre areas.

    He has been in college for four years which means he is matured. He does not nor will he have alot more upside. He will probably learn to play smarter but his skillset is his skillset.

    $7 million for a player like matthews is clearly too much money. That is only a million less than Millsap who is delivering double doubles on a regular basis!

    What planet are you from?

  • Snark
    July 2, 2010 10:59 a.m.

    Hey ToadfrodoSantaClause,
    Have you every said anything positive about the Jazz or it's managment? Naysayers are a bore. The fact that you are always critical does not make you a critical thinker. The only praise you ever give is to those who can match your sardonic cynicism and dreary droning.

  • MOTO X
    July 2, 2010 11:02 a.m.

    re: Rick

    Matthews an allstar?

    Wow.

    What meds are you on? Evidently not enough.

    Matthews will NEVER sniff an allstar game.

    Everyone has gotten so caught up in the feel good story of the undrafted rookie making it.

    Here is a reality check for you. New top 10 rookies (some stars/go-to guys for their teams) get around $3 million/YEAR (give or take) for the first two years and then teams get the option for year 3 and 4.

    Kyle Korver opted in last seaon because he could not get $6 million last year...the best 3pt shooter in the league!

    Niwits are saying Matthews is worth $7 million?

    A completely bankrupt organization in 10 minutes if you clowns were running it.

    Players Matthews size and athletic abiliity are not hard to find. He is a hard worker and physical defender and is better at that than many but not even close to an allstar. Get serious.

    He is not athletic enough to have alot of upside...that is why he was completely passed over in the draft. Matthews is a nice role player and I definitely want him but NEVER over pay for a role player.




  • JFFR
    July 2, 2010 11:11 a.m.

    Matthews is good but he's not great. Is he really that rare of a find, or does Matthews prove that there are plenty of guys outside of the league that are ready to contribute?

    Its something that isn't discussed enough and quite frankly should be.

    Two years ago Morrow came in and lead the league in 3 point shooting. Last year it was Matthews. There is plenty of thirsty talent that the league isn't picking up in the draft... is it really worth it to give Matthews $5+ million???

  • Big_Ben
    July 2, 2010 11:21 a.m.

    @ JFFR

    I agree. In fact, I put 4 million as the absolute max I am willing to match. If Portland wants to give him the full midlevel, let them and he can enjoy sitting the bench behind Brandon Roy. He is a nice player, but not worth a ridiculous offer.

  • jcrotty25
    July 2, 2010 11:37 a.m.

    Once we knew he was really good management/coaching should have sacraficed his playing time and cut it off last year so that he wouldnt be as desirable in this years FA .... and we could have had him for a bargin for several years... but we are too stupid to think long term like that our stupid brass accually thought we had a chance to make the finals with no height/shotblocking and they obviously still do....so we traded brewer and showcased him to the rest of the league .. making him look great in our system now everyone wants him ... good job jazz

  • jcrotty25
    July 2, 2010 11:42 a.m.

    Does anyone know how we can use that trade exception ( i think thats what we got) from Matt Harpring...i always thought those were very very valued and usefull

  • toddfromsantaana
    July 2, 2010 12:08 p.m.

    Gee John Crotty, do not dare be critical or you will hear from SNark

    That would scare me.....

    right.

  • rvalens2
    July 2, 2010 12:27 p.m.

    Keep Matthews if the price is reasonable. He's better than CJ and a price slightly above CJs isn't unreasonable.

    Brad ... forget about Korver ... the Jazz should not re-sign him. There are much better options.

    Boozer ... ADIOS ... have fun in Orlando, Chicago or New Jersey. At least we will get to BOO you twice a year.


  • TrueFan
    July 2, 2010 12:56 p.m.

    I'll say it again...like with Millsap, the Jazz will match any offer for Matthews. If they don't, post back, and I'll eat crow. I'll admit when I'm wrong, and I think Matthews will be our starting two guard next year and he'll most likely be making around 4-6 million. The Jazz showed with both Miles, and Millsap that they are willing to match what other teams offer. I don't see Matthews being any different, and breaking the trend. I do feel some club out there (maybe Portland) will throw a fairly big contract Matthews way.

  • Captain L
    July 2, 2010 1:03 p.m.

    Todd, come on big guy, Marshall's comments were anything but intelligent!!! You are thinking with emotions not smarts, you want the Jazz to win so bad your not being smart(intelligent) about your comments or reasoning. Change for change sake it not smart. That is what the Clippers and GS's of the league do and look where that has gotten them.
    The Jazz are not mediocre, they are a top 5 to 8 team in the league year in and year out. They need to make changes but nothing major(yet), right now the financial situation makes bringing in FA's difficult, next year things could be different.

    For now the Jazz need to develop their young players and see if there are 1 or 2 FA's they can bring in at a decent price that can help.
    Don't get so emotional thinking nothing is being done, I guarantee you KOC is working the phones to try to find players that will make the Jazz better. Like I said before you have to be smart about it. Making changes just to make changes and give us something different to watch is not smart.

  • TrueFan
    July 2, 2010 1:16 p.m.

    In case you haven't noticed with any of the free agent signings over the last couple days, guys who are "average" players are getting deals paying them considerably more then what they are worth. Explain to me why the same thing is going to happen with Matthews? You always have to overpay big time in free agency, or at the end of the day, your cupboard is bare. Do I think Matthews is worth more then 5 million? Probably not. But are the Jazz likely going to have to fork out that much money to keep him? My guess is yes. Would it be a smart decision? In my opinion...yes. Five to six million dollar contracts in the NBA are "chump change"...especially for a guy who very well would be in your starting lineup. I don't understand you cheap skate fans who say Matthews isn't worth 5-7 million. If anybody deserves a major pay raise it's Wesley. Your not a fan of his game, and underestimate his worth to the team if you don't think so.

  • T-spoon
    July 2, 2010 1:28 p.m.

    Captain L makes a great point. Let's look at the Mavericks. Since being runner's up to the Heat, the Mavericks have made major changes to their roster more than once. Last year they brought in Caron Butler (all-star) and Haywood. Where did that get them? They have never made it back to the finals since the Heat series and are way over the luxury tax. In fact, didn't they get ousted in the first round last year after earning the #2 seed? Yeah, that's what I thought.

    Ah, Portland Trail Blazers. As active as ever in your Jazz obsession. Truly, you are one of the most insecure people I've ever seen on these boards.

  • Portland Trail Blazers
    July 2, 2010 1:49 p.m.

    Ah, T-spoon you are the most fun person to read from. I love how you think the Jazz can just choose players, how is your 7.25 an hour jon going? You are the most insecure person I've ever seen on these boards.

    Cannot wait to get Wesley Matthews up to Portland so he can actually be on a contending team and team that actually has a bright future.

  • Kyle loves BYU/Jazz
    July 2, 2010 1:53 p.m.

    I agree with Bugoff that when the Jazz traded Brewer or right before they should have offered Matthews an extension.

    Surely he would have agreed to a couple years at 1.5-2 million a year.

    We are going to get nothing for Boozer. They needed to trade him before the deadline but they are always afraid to make moves even when the best possible outcome is western conference semis.

    Making a move isn't the end of the world. Do something KOC

  • T-spoon
    July 2, 2010 1:58 p.m.

    Oh, I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of my MASTER'S DEGREE!

    Lol Trail Blazer. Your purile comments just prove my assessment of the kind of person you are. I'm sorry that Portland continues to be out-played by the lowly Jazz, but hey, that's life!

  • TrueFan
    July 2, 2010 2:03 p.m.

    The Jazz have to over pay for second or third tier players, because top levels guys are not going to come here. If we could offer a top flight star max money, they still wouldn't sign the contract (and no...I don't consider Boozer to be a "top flight" star...espcially at the TIME we signed him). If we don't overpay for guys like Millsap, Miles and Matthews we end up in the lottery. We aren't the Lakers, but if we want to win a championship (or any team in the league for that matter) you have to at least go deep into the luxury tax. The Lakers spent something like 90 million last year on player salaries, and I believe after the Brewer trade we were hovering around the 70 million mark. Guess what...that 20 million dollar difference really showed in the playoffs. You don't pay like the big boys, then you belong on the side lines. People who are tight with the purse strings don't belong in the fantasy world that is the modern day NBA (where players like Rudy Gay are making MAX money).

  • T-spoon
    July 2, 2010 2:58 p.m.

    I agree that Rudy Gay is getting over-paid with his new contract, but I don't think his is as bad as what the Hawks are offering to Joe Johnson. 20 million a year for 6 years. Ouch! I can only think of a few players that actually demand that big of a pay day, and Joe Johnson sure isn't one of them.

    My guess is $2.0 to 2.5 million a year is fair market value for Matthews. Isn't that what Brewer was making?

  • Portland Trail Blazers
    July 2, 2010 3:08 p.m.

    T-spoon...

    Great job on admitting that the Jazz are terrible, now you just need to get all of the other Jazz "Fans" to admit are realize that too.

  • yojimbo
    July 2, 2010 3:41 p.m.

    re: P Trail Blazers

    Jazz terrible? Second round of the playoffs? Where was Portland? What was the Jazz/Blazer series record this year?

    Go back to your hole troll.

  • T-spoon
    July 2, 2010 3:42 p.m.

    Ha ha, your rebuttals are getting worse by the minute Trail Blazer!

  • Riot Man
    July 2, 2010 3:48 p.m.

    Just to answer the question of the fan above:
    a trade exemption comes when you send off more in a trade than you get back, ie Harpring and Brewer. From the date of each deal, you have 1 year to make any other trades you wish, to do the opposite. You can take back MORE in trade, than you would normally be able to, up to any amounts you still have in trade exceptions, and then the normal salary matching rules apply where they have to be within certain ranges, I believe it's 125% + 100k, but don't quote me on that.

  • stanfunky
    July 2, 2010 3:56 p.m.

    TrueFan said:
    "...I would go as high as 7 million on Matthews, and I think the Jazz will match any offer for him...
    5-7 million per season is a steal How many other STARTING two guards in the league make that little of a salary? Not many...if any."

    Actually many teams do. Here's the list:

    Stephen Jackson, Charlotte - $7.6 Mil
    Anthony Parker, Cleveland - $2.6 Mil
    Arron Affalo, Denver - $1 mil
    Brandon Rush, Indiana - $1.6 mil
    Eric Gordon, LA Clippers - $2.3 mil
    OJ Mayo, Memphis - $3.4 mil
    Corey Brewer, Minnesota - $2.4 mil
    John Salmons, Milwaukee - $5.4 mil
    Courtney Lee, New Jersey - $1.0 mil
    Morris Peterson, New Orleans - $6.2 mil
    Thabo Sefolosha, Oklahoma City - $2.7 mil
    Brandon Roy, Portland - $3.9 mil
    Beno Udrih, Sacramento - $6.0 mil
    Keith Bogans, San Antonio - $1.0 mil
    Randy Foye, Washington - $3.5 mil

    If you include Utah, over 1/2 of the league employs starting shooting guards for fairly low pay, compared to Kobe, Vince, etc. We should offer Matthews a starting salary of $3-4 million. Giving him $5-7 mil per year isn't a steal, it's overpaying.

  • Bohonker
    July 2, 2010 4:00 p.m.

    Re: Portland Trail Blazers
    The Blazers have Roy, Aldridge and a fragile center named Oden....beyond that they don't have much to look forward to. It's going to be a long season in Portland....

  • stanfunky
    July 2, 2010 4:08 p.m.

    Why would Matthews go to Portland, to ride the bench, when he could stay in Utah, and start? If anything, he would go to a big-market team that needs a starter and take mid-level money for that. I think he's appreciative of what the Jazz gave him, a CHANCE to play in the league, and he's not likely to bite that hand quite so fast. Remember, the sophomore jinx hits MANY players hard and fast, after their tendencies are known, film is studied, it's much easier to guard them. If Matthews stays, he'll likely sign for 2 years at $2-3 mil per, which gives him time to grow and develop into a better player, and THEN we can figure if he's worth the mid-level or more. But not yet. That's why the rookie salary structure is in place for drafted guys, and it's worked well, because it gives teams time to evaluate the player and see if they're worth the big $$$'s.

  • T-spoon
    July 2, 2010 4:13 p.m.

    Correct me if I'm wrong Jazz fans, but Portland is a team that is already over the salary cap with only 9 players under contract. Thus, they need 4 more players. Being that they are already over the cap, I don't see them offering more than 2 or 3 million to Matthews.

    Last year when they tried to sign Millsap, they had cap space. When they didn't get Millsap, they used up that space on Andre Miller.

    Portland would be very foolish to give a big offer to Matthews. They aren't a team to worry about in signing Matthews.

  • Dick of the NW
    July 2, 2010 5:04 p.m.

    Hey you guys with all the funny money. The Jazz didn't sign WM to a higher contract because they were over the luxury tax so a new contract would have the Jazz paying double the amount of the contract. For every dollar they would have paid WM, another dollar would go to luxury tax. Understand how the game is played or don't show your lack of it. There are some teams with that do not have money limitations while the rest of the league does. So the Jazz must spend their money very wisely. As I have said before, there are only so money offensive plays per game so how will you spread it around. There is more than paper talent. It is what happens out on the floor. Heart and chemistry mean alot. Go Jazz.

  • maverick34
    July 2, 2010 5:06 p.m.

    I cannot understand why we let guys like Milsap and Mathews become free agents. Why let players that one should know they are keeping in town hit the open market and let teams, like say Portland, structure their offers so it limits Utah in cap space if those players stay in town. I agree, everyone knew Mathews was a keeper by Christmas, so extend him then!!! Not only do you not have to worry about teams front-loading contract offers to force you over the cap, and the overall cost is lower. That's how it works, when you draft a player you can give him an extension before his rookie contract expires. It works for the teams because they can usually save money compared to what a free agent market would dictate and it works for the players because they can get more money faster. O'Conner better add some talent around Deron or he will leave town when his contract expires. He trades away Deon's homeboy Brewer, who is a proven player and can play SF with Wes at SG, but resigns Miles for 3.7 million/year who still unproven.

  • jumpinjax
    July 2, 2010 5:10 p.m.

    @snark
    Just tell me what iz there to be positive about? the jazz had forever to do something with boozer, just read that denver is willing to trade Anthony if he won't sign an extension but not the jazz,we would rather let them walk for nothing, then we draft Opie! with paul George and Ed Davis still on the board. Ya,great summer to be a jazz fan.

  • Portland Trail Blazers
    July 2, 2010 7:07 p.m.

    Jazz this, Jazz that. The owner of the Jazz should just move his team to Seattle, a city that actually deserves an NBA franchise. Salt Lake City does not deserve a franchise.

  • Bohonker
    July 2, 2010 8:16 p.m.

    Re: Portland Trail Blazers
    Like I said....this is going to be a long and painful season for the Blazers this year. Sorry....

  • shaybo
    July 2, 2010 9:44 p.m.

    Yea Portland Trail Blazer, that's why Phil Jackson said the Jazz have the best fans in the NBA.

  • Jazzsmack
    July 2, 2010 10:33 p.m.

    Don;t be suproised if the Jazz over pay to kepp matthews,

    that is theor modus operandi.

    over paid to keep ostertagg,
    over paid to keep AK,
    over paid to keep millsap,
    over paid to keep korver,
    over paid for boozer,


    it goes on an on,

    they OVER value their talent.

    put a very high premium on continuity

    and over paying to keep thoer mediocre talent.


    IS really any wonder they haven't won a championship?

  • Porter
    July 3, 2010 12:18 a.m.

    Maybe if Matthew goes to Portland with an overpaid contract, we can get back Ronnie Brewer, since he is now unrestricted. Kevin Oconnor comes out like a bandit in that deal.

  • Old Timer
    July 3, 2010 3:20 a.m.

    We don't need or want Brewer back here PERIOD! Not that he isn't a good guy and team mate, but he proved he does not have the skills people once thought he had. If the Jazz were smart, which they are not, they would trade Korver, C.J. or Mathews to Minnesota for Kevin Love and be glad to get it done. He is a low paid "baller" that can play PF or center, plus defend. Minnesota has an overload of big men.

  • byronbca
    July 4, 2010 11:54 a.m.

    The Jazz definitely overpaid for Ostertag and AK, but Milsap will make 6.2 million this year and Boozer is about to get a substantial raise by some other team. How do you figure the Jazz overpaid on those guys?

    As for Korver, the Jazz probably overpaid for him, but the trade that brought him here made the Jazz instantly better, so it wasn’t a bad move. If the Jazz want to contend, or even just make the playoffs they have to be willing to take financial risks.