Wow--maybe those BYU fans were right about the level of class at the U. Hmmmmm
I think Max Hall was correct.The utah fans keep proving him to be
right again and again.I can think of nothing more classless than
using vulgar words to describe a woman or her body parts.Classless.
Probably not grounds for not letting them graduate, but it is strong
reinforcement of old, tired stereotypes. Brilliant.
Zoobies, remember, when you point your finger at someone, you always have three
fingers pointing back at you. FACT, my daughter is a student at YBU. She never
in her life had to deal with someone who was using drugs UNTIL she had a BYU
roommate who is still using drugs and is still a student there. My neighbor
transferred back to SoCal because his BYU roommates had the worst language he
had ever heard and one of them was violating the moral conduct code. So be
careful about you general statements about how bad the U is.
clearly a utilization of improper words and only goes to reflect very poorly on
the University, not to mention these respresentatives of U of U. Glad I don't
have any tax dollars going that "university"...?
Wow.Who knew this kind of stuff went on there?Of course
now we have the yewt defenders like SoCal trying to turn it to something against
BYU. FACT, this happened at utah not BYU.Are you
seriously trying to defend this by saying your daughter had a roommate that used
Re: SoCalUte: No, the u is terrible. People are fallible, even at BYU so maybe
you shouldn't be so ignorant in your judgement that BYU doesn't have people who
manipulate. That is on them. Maybe you should look up the word "honor" it may
surprise you about the definition.
At first I thought this was a "hidden" message that hardly anyone would notice,
but then I saw a picture of the newspaper page in question and the first letters
are considerably bigger than the rest of the test, and it is positioned straight
across the page so as to make it more obvious. Someone casting even a casual
glance at the page would probably see it. That said, the "male" page actually
uses the anatomic term, rather than a profane or vulgar term. Haven't seen the
"female" page yet, but I suppose it was in fact more vulgar. Even so, it appears
to be little more than a childish and immature stunt.
I'm a Ute Grad, and I do have to admit that the senior staff at the Chronicle
made a really bad choice on this one. How could they not expect push back from
this, even after they had been warned? It was a stupid move, plain and simple.
However, what I think is kind of funny is that this is finally what
gets the chronicle really in trouble. They've published a lot worse stuff in the
past that didn't even get a second glance as to my knowledge. (But that's not to
say there wasn't some really worthwhile stuff in the past too, it was always an
interesting read.)Hopefully the U can use this as a learning lesson
and make things better in the future. Here's to hoping the chronicle has a
bright future. PS: To the supposed BYU fans posting on here, self
righteousness is no better than unrighteousness. The real BYU fans I know are
humble good people. So do yourself a favor, stop posting comments that tarnish
your schools reputation.
Wow what’s all the racket about? Disney has done similar and worse things
in their children’s cartoons and artwork over the years. Yet millions of
children are still propped in front of Disney movies every year without a
thought given. Tasteless and ill-advised yes, but until you stop watching Disney
movies maybe you shouldn’t get so worked up about this prank.
Get off your soap box Jimmy, it doesn't fit you well.
So, the students mismanage t the tune of $70,000 and print material that is
offensive to the majority of stakeholders. I wonder if they realize the
implications of their actions on next years' budget? Isn't it amazing how a 4
year education can result in a graduate (maybe) with little understanding of the
consequences of actions or the definition of anti-social behavior?
Wow, someone else has a code of conduct? How puritanical and utterly
Hey SoCalUte, your daughter really is a student at BYU? and you couldn't
convince her to go to same school that you attended? Wow! I can just imagine the
conversations when she called home. Even after leaning about some of the
students at the Y, she still did not transfer to that wonderful school that sits
so high on the hill.
The difference between The Chronicle and some other student papers is that Jim
Fisher is truly only there to advise. Nothing has to be approved by him or
anyone else to get printed. And as Jim said, sometimes this allows the students
to act like idiots. And that's as it should be. I just hope this doesn't
negatively impact any of their job prospects.
Why are some Utes working so hard to validate everything Max Hall said?
Very nice Utes!Go Aggies!
Classless, classless. Call us what you want Ute fans, but the more you do, the
more you prove Maxie right.
I love it when young journalists prove their immaturity just before graduation,
and then wax philosophical about "defending" the freedom of the press.
Thousands have died to defend that freedom. I doubt they had your stunt in mind
at the time. So sad that so many have given so much to defend the power and
freedom of the press, and you return the favor by showing how undeserving you
are of their sacrifice.
Just when you think the U can't get any lower...
You think these boneheads at a university supported by my tax dollars would have
more respect for a profession that once had a vital role in our society and
country's history, but is dying a not so slow but painful death, partially
because of the incompetence of the people in it.
Stupid - as a two time graduate of the University of Utah, I have to find this
act childish and stupid.
A portion of the mandatory students fees that I pay go to support the student
newspaper. I'm not allowed to cancel my subscription. When Ms.
Hanson was selected to be the chief editor of the student newspaper, she
understood that her job entailed a certain level of professionalism. She and
her staff crossed the line when they opted for such a high level of vulgarity
for their joke. Freedom of the press as applied to student
newspapers does not mean freedom to ignore any and all rules of decorum. Ms.
Hanson was endowed with a certain level of trust when appointed chief of the
paper. It is unfortunate that she and her staff, in spite of advice from their
faculty advisor, opted to display such a lack of good taste and common sense.As such, in my opinion, she and her staff did not have authorization to
use the university resources as they did. Shame on them. They abused the trust
they were given. The University as well as a large portion of the students
disavow their actions!
Haven't read the article and I don't care about it. But freedom of the press has
responsibilities, even at the post graduate level of the news media. What this
shows is how little respect there is in education and the press. As for
language, have you college kids listened to yourselves talk in public or at
home? Have these so called educated minds understood how terrible it sounds to
their parents? All graduates seem to know are single syllable words and can't
spell them right, even with spell checker PC programs.It's all about
respect or lack of it that's permeated the younger generations, not just in Utah
but nationally.As for media careers, they have to relearn freedom of
the press is not alive anymore. It's constricted by laws and being politically
correct. That is at the approval of local government demands that the press
refrain from printing the truth if its derogatory to an incumbent or political
party. We have freedom of the press in Utah as long as the Republican party
Emily said, "I just hope this doesn't negatively impact any of their job
prospects." Are you kidding?! It absolutely SHOULD have a negative
impact! I hope the U pulls their diplomas, too. "Laurels" post above
says it the best. These kids crossed the line.
University students pulled a vulgar joke. Big deal.
Well, I secretly think it's kind of hilarious...And seriously, who cares? It's
not like young children are reading this paper-- and even if they are...it's a
body part. People need to calm down. I hate that if they had spelled "brain" or
"thigh" or "mouth" no one would have noticed....why can't we treat all body
parts as equal??
This is so sad to read about. I personally don't think it reflects the
excellent character of the University of Utah or its students. However, it is
poor journalism and demonstrates problems that should be evaluated in the
Chronicle's editorial process. I hope it is a catalyst for changes that will
lead to a brighter future for the paper. I don't subscribe to the
notion that the paper is 'independent'. If I read the article correctly,
student fees are used to cover production costs and the printing facility is
located on campus. It may not be controlled by the university, but it has an
Wow. Freedom of the press apparently means only what you think is appropriate?
This is a big deal! A few so called writers have sullied the reputation of a
great University and thousands who call it their University. Shame on them for
being vulgar and for not being able to write a final column without showing
their ignorance and lack of regard for anyone else. And lest anyone wonder, I
am a BYU grad and fan, but the U is part of my home state and I'm proud to call
it mine as well--well, except for the few who choose to muddy up the waters.
Pagan,No, no one said what they did was against the law.Just classless. By your weak argument no one should complain if I
publish material that is racist right? You would surely not do that right?
I would expect nothing less from students at the U. Hansen may find her
statement an obstacle when interviewing for a job. Time to grow up kids.
Pagan: Obviously the word decency escapes you. Ya, I thought so.
Confirms everything I ever thought about the U.@SoCalUte If
your child knows of immoral behavior and honor code violations at BYU they
should report this to their Bishop. Their ecclesiastical endorsement will be
removed if substantiated and they will be out of the University.I
have a daughter who had to be moved out of her dorm for her own safety because
of a vile room mate. BYU had to go through a specific process to get rid of the
offending student for legal reasons.No, BYU students are not
perfect. They do at least have an honor code. The vast majority of BYU
students obey the rules and are there because of the rules, not in spite of
them.Vile behavior has consequences. Those who engage in this
behavior should suffer those natural consequences or they will not learn from
those experiences. There is also repentance and forgiveness.Years
ago a BYU football player cold cocked a bias official and lost his chance to
ever play in the NFL. A single act can be very costly.PS: If more
football officials were punch out for bad calls, there would be fewer bad calls.
(still not right).
What an embarrassment to a great university!This is what happens
when juvenile students are left to their own devices with no accountability.The University of Utah is solely responsible for allowing this to
happen. The U provides the budget (student fees) and facilities for printing and
distribution of the Chronicle.Unless the Chronicle is placed back
under editorial control by the U with a full-time faculty editor in chief and
specific restrictions and accountability for unacceptable content, all student
fees and facilities used to support the Chronicle should be cut off.If the student editors at the Chronicle want to behave like children, they
should be treated like children.
I like how byu fans are making a huge deal about this when they should be
worried about who will be playing runningback next year because he didnt do
anything wrong either. He is a model byu student.
Judging by the amount of censorship currently in play on THIS thread, it would
look as if the Deseret News moderators DIDN'T cut their teeth at the University
of Utah's Daily Chronicle. While a lot of people fought and died for
this country to ensure, among other things, the right to free speech and
expression for everyone, there are still those among us who are fighting to
ensure that there isn't. Those are they who are the bigger threat than ones who
in print, make subtle references to people's genitalia.Uh...can we say
"genitalia" on this thread without being censored??? You never
jenna1218-if all body parts are equal, why is it that you have to cover certain
parts in order to avoid lewdness citations? Thinking that all body parts are the
exact same just points to your naivete.
These students who did this need to apologize to the university. This is
uncalled for, unprofessional, and childish.BYU fans: once again, you
paint with a very broad brush, and you accuse the WHOLE university of something
that only a few people did. You could have agreed with us Utah fans who put the
blame on only the individuals who did this. I know of numerous accounts of BYU
students doing classless behavior - I wouldn't stoop so low as to squash the
whole BYU campus for a few person's bad behavior. I still admire BYU, even
though I myself was once the victim of some classless behavior by a BYU
supporter at one time.
Payday to Max Hall -- what an appropriate way for U of U grads to conclude their
Seriously, this is typical Chronie behavior. It has been going on for many
years. Something similar happened when I was at the U. Only at that time it
involved religious bigotry. Can you guess which religion they were sliming?
The Chronie has taken itself way too seriously for way too long as
the "underground newspaper of Utah." In fact, it's just a bunch of really
immature children that think they are smarter than everyone else. It's
pathetic.BTW, I transferred to and graduated from BYU. It was like
coming out of the darkness and into the light.
I thought it was funny. I guess many of you just dont have a sense of humor, but
I already knew that.
Dear Andrewute1: Harvey Unga was HONEST enough and MAN enough to come forward
and admit that he had made some mistakes. None of us is perfect, but Harvey
exhibited true honor by admitting he had done something wrong.
Hey self-righteous BYU folks, which is worse? Write the body part in a column
or use it outside the bounds of marriage? So, why you casting the first stone?
SoCalUte, I hate to say this, but I think that your daughter was more at fault,
she knew the rules and she didn't have the courage to report this. I believe
that many times when people are out of control in their behavior, that it is the
responsibility of those who are in control to take the mature step of either
reporting it or getting that person help. Would a parent condone a child at
home doing drugs? As for the U and their childish behavior, and I assume they
are fairly young, can I say STUPID. Googled the word stupid, here it is. 1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.2. Tending to make poor
decisions or careless mistakes.3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or
care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.This also could be
considered sexual harassment to those who trusted in this paper and do not
appreciate what was done, be it either gender.
Thank you goodDr., for your assessment. I suppose my only wish is that people
wouldn't freak out over this truly harmless senior prank. Things become a big
deal when we make them into a big deal. The more people express embarrassment
and feel scandalized, the more 'lewd' the prank becomes. Can't we just say, "oh
those crazy college kids, i'm glad they got their kicks before heading out into
the real world- and thankfully they used the anatomically correct term", and
move on? I stand by what I said earlier-- it was a pretty funny thing to do.
Call me immature if you want. p.s. Anyone who's seen '500 Days of Summer'
needs to spend a few minutes yelling the word that Summer did sitting in the
park...it might loosen you up a bit.
"oh, but he's doing it too"typical response from kids when they're
caught doing something they know they shouldn't be doingwhat's sad
is the "adults" on this blog who are using the same excuse to justify what every
knows was a stupid, childish stunt4 years of college education and
these kids are still acting like they're in grade schoolthe
University of Utah should be justifiably ashamed that it is being represented in
the public eye in this mannerUtah Alum
JUDGEMENT is supposed to be one of the things you gain at college and employeers
look for that trait. Businesses sometimes even if untrue get saddled with a rap
for poor judgement because of actions of certain individuals in the firm.While it is not against the law to cuss your boss, it may be the mark of
poor judgement and may haunt you for many years. Unfortunately many of remember
the "bad" things we did rather than the "good" things. What do they say, it
takes a dozen at-a-boys's to do away with one "ah shucks."I think it
was bad judgement but now it has spread all over the media and the internet
taking (and unfairly I think) the name of a great school with it and associating
other students with poor judgements.Even in business sometimes a
firm will get blamed for poor judgement, when it may have been only one
individual. I know of one research contract that went that way.We
always need to think of how others might react before we act, then there is
freedom of the press and freedom of speech which says it isn't against the law.
defibman: "Hey SoCalUte, your daughter really is a student at BYU? and you
couldn't convince her to go to same school that you attended?"Maybe
SoCalUte's daughter was more interested in attending a school where she believed
her morals and ideals would be supported by the other students.Maybe, she was more interested in getting that "Mrs. Degree" with someone of
her own religious faith... who knows! His daughter is an individual
and can make her own choices. Just as the students at the U made the choice to
print what they did. The biggest lesson they are all learning is
that actions/choices have consequences and it is best to weigh those
consequences when choosing a course of action.
Anyone student saying their rights are violated should check out the code of
ethics by the Society of Professional Journalists. Part of it states journalists
should show good taste and be accountable for what they write. They also need to
brush up their knowledge of AP style--they have guidelines about vulgarity (and
about not including it). It looks like these students need to understand the
real life and responsibilities of a journalist before they enter the real world.
These twerps are hiding behind their “right” under the
“freedom of the press” to say anything they want. Did they even
bother to read the history behind that amendment? Do they even know which
amendment gave them that “right”? As originally intended that
“right” came about because the founding fathers felt that the need
to publish the TRUTH was an essential right to preserve democracy. It was a way
to keep government in line. Keeping the public informed was considered
essential to the democratic process.
So these “journalists” felt compelled to print vulgarities in the
name of “freedom of the press.” I can just imagine how
honored the hundreds of thousands of men and women who have paid the ultimate
price for our nation must feel to have preserved their “right” to
print meaningless vulgarities. Whether they meant to or not they clearly
demonstrated the lowness of their character and the smallness of their
intellect. I am sure the great publications of the nation are lining up to hire
them.The U should honor them as well with their names inscribed in a
stone pillar along with the vulgarities they felt compelled to print. The
pillar should be prominently displayed on campus for all to see and venerate in
future generations. I am sure these “journalists” will be proud to
return to the U as the years go by and see their name and their words on
display. What a tribute to the “freedom of the press?"Fisher
should likewise be honored for defending "their right" under the pretense of the
"freedom of the press" to engage in such a ridiculous act.
When I was at the U, some referred to the newspaper as "The Chronie" but most of
us referred to it as "The Crummy".8th grade journalism--this type of
stuff would be nothing new to the paper.
Jenna1218: Isn't college to prepare kids for the real world?
In the real world, people are accountable for the good and stupid things they
do. They can't be jailed for what they write, but they can be fired. Working
for a particular employer, or as a student write for the school paper is not a
protected right, it is a privilege.The U is right on on this
issue,and I congratulate them for standing up.
Somewhere, Max Hall is reading this story and smiling.
Seriously, folks. Do Utah students find this stuff funny? We know their
editorial staff does (I guess). I laughed at this stuff when I was in the 7th
grade. By my sophomore year in high school I would have rolled my eyes. By the
time I graduated from college I was way beyond this.This from our
state's flagship school? Brilliant. My tax dollars at work, producing
intellectuals who still giggle at bathroom words. I'm sure employers are
beating down the doors of these highly-touted journalists.
Their mothers must be so proud.
Holding on their degrees and not letting them graduate, won't hurt them. Since
all liberal papers are failing and firing people. It's better for these
children to start school all over and grow up.
Wherever Max Hall is right now, I doubt he is even worried about this article.
He has to use all his energies to convince the Cardinals to take a chance on
him. I'm embarrassed by the BYU fans who come on these posts to
smear the U of U. You give the church and the school a bad name.Kudos to the University of Utah administrators for taking a stand on this.
To Anne26:I am sorry that you are embarrassed by "BYU fans" that
have commented on this story. If I were you, I'd be much more embarrassed by
sophomoric stuff being published by the University of Utah.But I do
agree with you on one thing--kudos to the Utah administrators for taking a
SoCalYewt has been peddling his "my daughter lives with druggies at BYU" story
for months now. #1 I don't believe it...considering the source and 2, if his
concocted story were true and his precious "daughter" would have gone to
authorities (police and school) on day one it wouldn't still be true today.
Finally, any man that would knowingly let his "daughter" continue to live in
such a situation, at BYU or anywhere else...assuming it were true...isn't worth
a pinch of salt anyway.So, SoCalYewt, give up the "my daughter lives
with druggies at BYU" hogwash you keep pushing in here in your failed attempt to
paint BYU as a bad institution. Or, give us some names, apartment complexes,
etc. or other verifiable facts to back up your silly story. But you should
hurry. It will soon be a year you've been telling us your "daughter" lives with
druggies at BYU.
What a hoot! An administration that can't take a creative joke has just
painted a very round and very large target on their own backside for future
It was a silly thing to do, but when it comes to the main stream media, it fits!
Look at it this way, she has a future with the Tribune.
For everyone saying this vindicates Max Hall, it doesn't.Max Hall
didn't say some U students are classless (which is true), he said they all are
(which is ignorant and wrong). Max Hall is still a loser, just like these
Chronicle staff members.
Reading (most of) the comments from those promoting a 'BYU is superior' attitude
or suggesting that 'Utah is classless' is such a reminder of why it was I was SO
glad to get out of Provo and transfer to the U where I completed my first two
degrees.Once you have actually lived in Provo and attended BYU (and
have some degree of respect for and interest in diversity and an open, caring
mind), you will see overall arrogance and a 'holier than thou persona' that is
unbelievable.Every university has their share of people who make
mistakes and are still learning and growing. Being a sophomore or graduating
senior doesn't change that fact. BYU and Utah are wonderful schools with some
similarities and tremendous differences, ones often made glaringly obvious by
the close proximity of campuses, the same media giving coverage of each, and a
whole lot of people who financially support each (whether through taxes or
tithing dollars).Despite incidents like this, I am SOOO very glad to
have The University of Utah and not BYU printed upon my degrees...Shanti
I don't know why it was so hard to think up a nine letter word:ClasslessAfter Max Hall's explosion earlier this year, it would
have been a great way to give a shout out that this group of outgoing seniors
can identify with.It's kinda weird to read BYU fans dog on a "Code,"
while Utah fans get all preachy and moralistic about the virtues of their
university. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?
These were graduating seniors???? From college????My son is in 8th
grade, and I'm pretty sure even he knows better than to pull a stunt like that.
They need to grow up. It's time.
Come on people this is the U fo U Yes, the U of U!! What do you expect ! The
standard here is NO standard, anything goes up on the hill. As a "87" U of U
grad I am not surprised at what the chronicale prints, this is simply every day
thought on campus. If you want BYU standards then send your kids to BYU and let
the U Of U do that thing they do. State Higher Education you gotta love it baby.
Re. Ace thanks for the History lesson you spelled it all out so perfectly. God
They have simply given us another example why print journalism is dying. These
individuals have disgraced not only themselves and the school but a profession
that used to be honorable and important to preserving our nation's freedoms.
Of course the U uses vulgarisms in their communications. This is what makes
them unique from BYU, their alter ego and arch enemy. This type of filth is
sometimes accepted at this institution of lower learning in order to make a
definite and distinct impression from a perspective totally opposite, as an
overreaction, from the Cougars. This is much similar to the
orgiastic frenzy the University of Wyoming once discharged when playing home
games against the Cougars. That is until the University administration wisely
stopped allowing the use of intoxicants at athletic functions. I
once saw a group of university academicians at a Utah function back in
’75. The participants were all well groomed and excellent examples of
those they represented. That is with the exception of the one guy with a red
jacket with a U on the front. The U guy looked like he’s slept in a
garbage can and, shall we say, did not reflect social charm. This is what makes
the U unique. My mommy would spank me for using such
vulgarities, especially where nice folks are present….which, evidently,
excludes many of those at the U. Go Aggies….Hi-O Silver!
You know what? They PAID for hese educations! This is a prime example of
youthful nonsense - nothing more! "Ooooh look! We can write dirty words in
code..." They didn't embezzle, they didn't encourage drilling rigs not to put in
safety switches, they didn't have extra-marital affairs while masquerading as
upstanding elected officials... Now where do you suppose they are
getting their ideas? For the U to impose an artificially interpreted "code of
behaviour" and restrict their PAID FOR educational records is the height of
hypocrisy. Give them a public verbal spanking if you want U or pay them back
their money and send them on their way. It is grossly unfair to make a big stink
about this unless the U is going to publicly decry all of the other moral faux
pas of the world out there too.