What an insane bureaucracy!What is the Mormon church, some kind of
pyramid scheme? Is that why MLM companies are so popular in Utah? Because the
Church itself is a huge MLM scam?
Four of these general authorities are the first ones called from their
countries. Elder Causse from France, Elder Garravet from Peru, Elder Pino from
Venezuela and Elder Teixiera from Portugal. I think this is neat.
Excuse me? Find me an institution that has 13 million members that doesn't have
a bureaucracy! As for it being confusing, I beg to differ. I can think of no
other organization run so efficiently and smoothy as the LDS church. So dude,
if you are going around trying to "out" organizations with confusing
beauracracies why don't go try and fix your government which is involved with
the world's largst Ponzi scheme--social security.
To the moderator:Why on earth would you let and offensive,
off-topic, misrepresentative comment like Anonymous @4:50 even make it on here.
He/she needs to be censured more. The comments offered by this person are often
all of those things mentioned above in your own little box telling us how NOT TO
13 million members ONLY ON PAPER!That actual number of ACTIVE
members is less than 1/3 of that worldwide.Dont' fool yourself. The
Real, Active Mormon Church is not big enough to need this huge bureaucracy.The reason they have it is because the apostles and prophets are called
for life. And they all get so old that they can't really do anything. They just
sit in positions at the head of the Church. In order to get anything done, they
need a huge bureaucrasy of younger men to handle things.
Why do members need to know the biographies of these men? They don't vote for
them. They have no choice in who is called. They could call anyone they want to
and it wouldn't matter.Knowing a person's biography is only helpful
if it makes a difference who is chosen for a position. Members don't get to
choose, so who cares about their biographies?(unless mormons really
are engaging in "hero worship" and knowing biographies is like reading the
tabloids about a celebrity!)
Please, can't we be kind to each other? I wouldn't mind reading your own
autobiographies if you would like to print them here. Why should anyone want to
find fault with the Church? They've never hurt anyone. I hate to think where I
would be without it. It has helped me be a kinder, gentler person. It has
shown me how to help others, rather than hurt others. It has filled me with
love, instead of bitterness.
By the way your church is smaller then most churches so 13 million is not that
many! You still have to get over Billion. Ha you'll never get a Billion in your
There are indeed 13 million members a significant portion (though I take issue
with your figure) who are not active. The leadership of the church (what you
refer to as the bureauracy) does not simply exist to cater to the needs of its
active members--but it also coordinates reactivation efforts, missionary work,
world-wide humanitarian projects, etc. How many Catholics voted for Benedict
XVI? How many people honestly vote for their religious leader? Not many. Have
you ever read the Bible? Is it not the life experiences of ancient prophets and
apostles? We view these men as modern apostles and prophets and thus find their
life stories valuable lessons, much like those of ancient apostles and prophets.
They are old and need assistance in somethings, but just remember that Pte.
Hinckley at age 97 had a more accute mind and was more active than many people I
know half his age. Your problem is not the bureaucracy or biographies...it is
bigotry. I'll never figure out why some people would exert so much effort to
malign an organization that blesses the lives of so many, member or not, even if
you don't agree with the doctrine.
The LDS Church may appear to "bless the lives of so many" be their many
programs, humanitarian aid, etc., but they also are the most exclusionary and
elitist Church I have ever encountered - and that is not a few! Moreover, their
missionary program is one of the most extensive of all Christian churches, but
its lack of focus renders its effects damaging to the faiths of other
Christians. For the most part, other Christian Churches send missionaries to
NON-CHRISTIANS to bring them the gospel of Jesus Christ. By contrast, the LDS
Church sends missionaries to those who already have a faith in Christ. They tear
down their faith by preaching the general "Apostasy" of all of Christianity.
This harms countless individuals and makes the LDS Church, like the Jehovah's
Witnesses and other "cults" (pardon the expression), parasitic upon mainstream
Re: Anon,Why must you hate so much? I find the discussion boards
here at the DesNews and KSL so disturbing sometimes. For your
information, the members of the Quorum of the 12 work very, very hard. They
don't just sit around "enjoying" their positions--they are constantly doing,
traveling, speaking, coordinating, etc. Besides, Nearly all of the
general authorities of the church are over 60 or are nearing that age. So they
are near retirement age anyway. Why does it bother you if someone wants to spend
their retirement putting in 12 hours a day serving their religion? I would that
more people did that--from all faiths! The world would be such a better
place.And the area authorities are all volunteers serving in the
evenings and weekends while holding down other jobs. Why hate them for their
volunteer service to help others?The idea of this organization being
a pyramid scheme is ridiculous since nobody gets rich off of this. In fact, many
made much more money in their professions. It's truly service for the love of
their God. Is that so terrible?
No one is trying to impress anyone with the 13 million figure. It is what it
is. And NO CHURCH on the face of the earth states membership as the total
number who attended worship last Sunday. Get real. And don't be offended that
Mormons fill the Conference Center. We love it. You would be so lucky as to
have attended a session. The messages were great. Love, tolerance, faith,
Jesus Christ, humanitarian aid, helping one another; It was great. I am going
to be a better person tomorrow because I was there today. You would be too.
Ok first of all those who are posting "negative" comments I am confused because
this is just a biography of who was called. What is the big deal! Why don't you
go and find someone to help and serve instead of seeing how many negative
comments you can spew!!!!!!
In the other DMN article commenting about The Church ad I read criticism that
the church is too impersonal, here I read the criticism that the church cares
too much about personalities and people. My friends, which is it?? Do we care
too much or not enough... Or maybe we care just enough but you don't like us
because we exist at all. Wow, that hurts. Please stop that. Please embrace
cultural and religious diversity.Jackson Pollock said, "Why can't we
all just get along"
Like most other people you make statements out of ignorance. One thing I have
noticed about Mormon haters--I know because I Was one of them at one time--is
that most of what they know about Mormons come from people who know nothing
about Mormons. How IS the LDS Church exclusionary and elitist? They do reach
out to Non-Christians, I was an atheist before I became a member. As a Rev.
you should know the history of the early Christian church, that the were
considered a Jewish Cult by the Roman authorities. So if you wish to label us a
cult we are in good company.
It is wonderful to see the gospel roll forward.
In my life time,I have seen stakes appear in cities that had one lonely small
branch.I have seen LDS persons become respected AND sought after in
industry,government,medicine,military and certain portions of education.Those
that still spend way too much time hating the church for their own deep-seating
personal reasons,just need to "get a life".If I don't like something,I get away
from it or ignore it.Of course in these times "getting away" from the LDS
faithful is virtually impossible.Sorry.
Anybody else notice that the biographies don't mention where they went to
college unless they went to the why? I'll bet most of the Utahns on the list
either went to the U or Utah State.
Re:Anonymous.I have yet to see mentioned that the LDS church has a much
higher standard of who is an active member than any other non-cult church. Any
other religion, if you go to service or mass on Easter and Christmas, you are
considered to be active. With us, you need to attend Sacrament Meeting weekly,
hold a calling, attend the temple, be a visiting or home teacher and speak in
church twice a year. That doesn't count parents of youth that get to drive their
children to primary or youth activties at least twice a week. (Unless you live
in Utah, where you can walk to church).I'm not complaining. We need as
much help as we can get to avoid sin, and the more we serve others, the easier
it is to resist temptation. And may the Lord bless those of other religions who
are serving activly in their chosen religion and trying to be true disciples of
Dear Reverand,Why shouldn't we spread our message to all who will listen.
If people are satisfied with thier religion they will not listen to our
missionaries. We take our message througout the world testifying of our belief
in Christ. Many so-called main stream Christians are searching for additional
truth and they are not able to find it within their present denominations. I
find it refreshing when I can have a real discussion with a believer of Christ
regardless of church affiliation. Unfortunately that is difficult to do at times
because of preachers who teach hatred of other religions for fear of losing
their members. You need not fear our 19 year old fairly ignorant missionaries.
Can you imagine any organization relying a group of recently graduated high
school students to grow the organization. There must be something unique about
our teachings. You should be worried that we have a message of hope, of love, of
Eternal Life and a great love of the ressurected Living Christ that people
throughout the world want to hear. Please ask yourself why your members are
searching for additonal truth and not finding it within teachings of your faith.
I guess the really good message and great inspirational stuff doesn't get put on
tv. I've watched quite a bit of it and must have missed it anyway. These
old white guys are not inspirational speakers. There might be a message there,
but you need a red bull buzz on to focus long enough to find it. And, isn't it
time to punch up the tunes a bit? How about some strings and percussion and
synthesizer? Organ and choir music is a bit passe.
I understand why Anon. does not put a name on his/her comments. What an idiot.
Why would the News bother to print such drivel.
I would encourage everyone on these boards to just ignore Anonymous. He is only
writing to get a reaction and we so quickly and conveniently provide one for
him.If we just ignored him, he will go away because his needs aren't
being met.Shall we not try it?
To "Rev. Gonzales" (if you truly are a "reverend"):Please stop
"cutting and pasting" your negative comments from one message board to the
other. Your time would be better spent ministering to your flock and teaching
love, acceptance and tolerance, rather than the things you are saying here.
And, for your information, spreading the Gospel to other Christians is no more
offensive than other Christian churches sending missionaries in and trying to
convert Hindus, Buddhists, or Jews. Those people are very good people, too, and
are just as offended when Christians try to show them the way. If you believe
in something strongly, you will try to share it with others, no matter what.
This is geared to Rev. Gonzales have you ever left your home for two years to go
to a new place to serve lord? The missionaries that go out pay for it themselves
to serve the lord. They do not tear down peoples beliefs they build upon the
foundations of what people already believe in. I would say that first you need
to get your facts right before you get on a page like this and say something
false. That is the great thing about the LDS church we don't have to hate on
people like everyone does on us. The LDS chruch is the the true chruch and has a
prophet on earch which is Pres. Monson. The Book of Mormon compliments the Bible
as the world of god. And the person who translated that book Joseph Smith was a
prophet of God. Yes I am a LDS member and I went on a mission and I never tore
down peoples belief. I will tell you I had alot of people that told me that I
was wrong but I just gave people the chance to listen. So check your facts Rev.
Why remain Anonymous you 1 - 3 above? Certainly you can't be seriously afraid
that you'll be hunted down for making patently thoughless remarks. None of us
in the church who know how hard our leaders work and what motivates them can
take you seriously anyway. Why don't you apply a little intellectual honesty
and make a worthwhile observation for which you would be happy to apply your
name. If you want to know their motives, ask them - but I would also
suggest that if you were to ask Catholic or Muslim or other religious leaders in
Salt Lake you would find that these people consider LDS leaders to be hard
working, honest, caring people - whether or not they agree with the church's
doctrines. Especially if they've been involved in cooperative humanitarian
efforts led by the church. I know several of these men who were called
yesterday and I'm thrilled. I found additional evidence yesterday that this
church is in God's hands - and I'm further compelled to stay close to it for my
family's sake. God bless you Anonymous - however many of you there
Dear Rev. Gonzales,I can understand how you would feel that those
who have a faith in Christ don't need to hear the message of the restored
truth.However, there are many who Christ will turn away at the day
of judgment. He told us in Matt 7:21-23 of this situation. Unfortunately, many
who have faith in Christ have not found the entire truth about His church and
teachings. Hence, the LDS Church sends missionaries out to the world to call
them to repentance and to come unto Christ. It is done at His command.There isn't any tearing down of other churches but an explanation of the
scriptures prophesying of the apostacy and need for the restoration. There is no
harm in this. In fact, I'd say most people who realize they don't have the
fullness of the gospel and are baptized are in fact people of other Christian
faiths. I hope you will let go of your resentment towards the LDS
Church and try to fully understand by what commandments it does its daily
activities.I hope you are watching General Conference this weekend
and feast upon the words of Christ from His apostles and prophet; He called.
The Church sends missionaries to the ENTIRE world. All of Gods children deserve
to hear the Gospel.The Apostasy is predicted in scripture and the
prerequisite doctrine for all Protestant faiths, the LDS Church hardly invented
it."Mainstream Christianity" has rendered itself irrelevant to the
spiritual needs of mankind by watering down of the Gospel to a permissive
floundering social club. Rather than parasitic, the restored Gospel is a live
vibrant flower growing from dead decaying apostate mulch.
Both your new Prophet and elder apostle (Packer) get a child into the hierarchy.
Why do Utah Mormons do this? Hasn't the LDS Church become global? Why are so
many of your leaders white corporate executives? Even those called from other
nationalities tend to be business executives. Why? Please answer.
Yes! Yes -- Darlene Dufflemen. That is EXACTLY what we need! More censorship in
the Mormon church. We really need to get back to the eternal concept: "When the
Bretheren speak, the thinking has been done". We need to enforce that with more
censorship. I think we need to see a new 4th Quorum of the Seventy --made up of
I too am saddened by the hateful and angry statements that some have made to
this discussion board, but isn't it wonderful that we have the freedom of
religion which allows us to worship as we choose and to even make comments like
this on the DMN discussion board? Now, I just wish we could learn to help build
up others who are different from us instead of tearing them down.
Rev. Gonzales- I am sorry if you feel hurt by Mormons. I try to live
a Christlike life. Let us all remember that Jesus Christ came not to minister to
those who didn't need a physician and offered forgiveness and love to all.Jacob
How interesting i thought after reading both comments from members and
nonmember---freedom of speech and expression as long as it is not offensively
out of context. Remember that truth is proof by after many contraries as well as
opposition in all things. Anyway, i enjoyed reading it both from non and member
alike. Does anyone out there know who is the last prophet in this dispensation?
The Prophet Joseph Smith was the first prophet then there has to be the last
prophet at the time of the Second Coming---am i right? i really enjoyed reading
your comments. You're all cool as a moose.
Thank you for the brief statistics. It is very interesting to see some the
great diversity of the LDS Church. That has changed greatly over the last few
decades. Anytime you bring in politics, religion, or other personal
topics, you will have a lot of discussion. Some of the comments will be meant
to enrage, enflame, and hate. Some of the comments will be made out of
ignorance or lack of facts. What we need to do is learn to share
our opinions and our personal thoughts without a lot of offensiveness. This is,
of course, for everyone (including myself). I hope we can learn to help each
other be better people!
I have a brother-in-law that lives in the Salt Lake City area. Whenever we go up
for a visit, I am impressed by the number and concentration of hard working,
active members of the Church. As Church membership grows worldwide, I find it
exciting to see members from all over the world called to positions of
leadership. At the same time I don't see any reason why a worthy member should
be held back from progressing in Church positions because of their parents.
Do not criticize the brethren. Remember, these leaders have been called by GOD,
not by man.
Hi, I am not sure that people who add the title "Rev." are actually that which
they profess to be. Posting comments is easy, and posting an assumed title is
also easy. But, if he is a "Rev." he should also remember that the disciples of
the Saviour took the gospel to those who were members of their Jewish faith,
later these early Apostles, including Paul, took the Gospel to all, Jew &
Gentile. We follow their example & are anxious to share to all who will listen
& will prayerfully consider our LDS message. No sincere seeker of truth will
deny the truth, this is what the Lord has said in the New Testament & The Book
of Mormon. We invite all to come unto Christ. Since the beginning of the world
the Lord has always called prophets to correct his people when they have
wandered from the truth. When the Saviour taught what appeared to be new
principles, the skeptics & cynics could not accept it.
I, for one, am glad to get the biographies of these new people. It gives me a
little background on them to make it easier to remember who each is. Otherwise,
they are just a name.
I find it ironical that those who criticize the church after leaving it, just
cannot leave it alone afterwards!
Growing up in SLC, as a catholic, I find it interesting to see all the Mormon
haters here. My family is from Europe and they still love Utah, The mormons
are so friendly and accepting of us. I can say that being from the
heart of the Catholic church, the percentage of "active Mormons" out of the 13
million compared to "active catholics" would blow your mind. Learn
to embrace difference...the world is a melting pot and we have enough in the
world who want to destroy our country. If you think about it... our own country
is going downhill. We should unite as one, regardless of religious issues.To the mormons, and other religions in this state...Thank you for
making my family feel welcome. You are great people. Stay strong!
One more comment. I find it interesting to read biographies from all religious
people... we do not vote on our Pope, but we do know where he came from and his
"credentials"Most of the these new mormon leaders have interesting
stories and backgrounds since they come from all over the world. I feel as
though we all can learn from others even if we do not share the same religious
views.Perhaps some of those who have left negative comments should
read about these men and women. From what I have seen, these are great people
who can be examples to all.
What a delight to see where these new leaders are from, and the wide variety of
their experience. I would be interested in a list of those apostles who
are just sitting around! I recall the last time I saw the schedule of a visiting
general authority. His schedule would have been taxing to a thirty-year-old --
and he was in his 70sI was there at the invitation of a dear friend whom I
had served as a home teacher for some time. After years of struggle with
personal difficulties, my friend was finally having temple blessings restored.
It was a touching and deeply spiritual moment, and was just one of an entire
Saturday filled (between public meetings) with personal meetings to encourage,
uplift and help individual members. I don't think the general membership
of the church, much less our critics, have any idea of how hard our general
Mahalo nui loa for sharing this information. These wonderful people all over the
world... they are now called and entrusted with further sacred obligations. I'm
excited to hear more from and get to know these people as they counsel us and
share their special testimonies of Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father.
I for one enjoy being able to read about the experiences and background of those
who have been called to serve in various parts of the world. I am amazed at the
variety of different backgrounds and cultures that are represented. For the
many different types of service that are requred to operate the Church
efficiently a extensive background is definately needed. I have
personally served with President Stevenson in the Japan Nagoya Mission and found
him to be a compassionate and hard working individual who did not choose to
come, but responded to the call to serve in a very demanding Church calling
receiving only a living allowance while he was here in Nagoya.I am
thankful that we each have a voice as we sustain those who are called to be our
leaders giving them the right to select those who are needed and called to
various heavy responsibilities throughout the world. They have information
which I do not have and would be hard placed to obtain.As a convert
of more than 50 years I have never seen anyone act in anyway that I considered
improper or self serving in any way.
First - congradulations to the reporter who actually took Elder Christophersen's
tip and wrote the bio story. I enjoyed reading the brief biographies.Well done to those defenders of the faith.and to the bashers. as ye sow
so shall ye reap.or What comes around goes around.I don't believe
the Rev. is ordained - probably only a pen name. most of the comment is about te
mote in his eye.
When you look for leaders, you find them among successful leaders. When you
have a lay clergy and need administrators and men who know how to work and know
how to make things successful and have experience relying on the Lord to build
their respective businesses, you select from successful leaders. You don't have
to pay them because they can make it on their savings and retirements, so the
Church gets great willing leaders and it costs them nothing. But I also noticed
how interesting it is how many of these wonderfully intelligent leaders were
raised on farms. It is marvelous to have men of vision and
experience and sound understanding as ones leaders. Yet they remain humble. It
is truly marvelous.
It seems rather insulting to normal intelligence to dignify a response to most
of the previous comments made above. We, of the Church, need to remember "Cease
to contend one with another" was said by Him, whose name we bear. Also, with
regard to disputations & contentions ".....he that hath the spirit of contention
is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention........Behold
this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one
with another, but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."
Most will know where this is found. Others who do not should be the only ones
left to mutter and bandy about frivolous matters for the sake of trying to feed
an ego and use platforms such as these to attempt to draw you closer to the
Adversary, for whom they are employed. Truth is NOT what they are seeking.
To Frank: Yes it is often men with a business background who are called to high
leadership positions in the LDS Church. This is because they have demonstrated
leadership ability. If a guy has been bussing tables at a fast food restrauant
for 20 years it's unlikely he would make a good leader. As far as the nepotisim
charge, have u noted that there are 2 starting quarterbacks in the NFL named
Manning? Did u know that their father, Archie, was also a starting quarterback
in the NFL? So did Archie's sons get their jobs because of their ability or
because of their name?
Brief biographies are often reported for any group that is in the public eye,
people entering the political arena, those moving up in education and business
positions, this is nothing unusual. It is interesting to read backgrounds to
get a sense of the possible flavor of things to come.
I agree with and appreciate Luigi's comment. I always find these bios
interesting. However, I wish they would say something more about the wife, i.e.
what was her profession, education etc.
I think Geezergay needs to consider that there is a difference between
MANAGEMENT and LEADERSHIP.Just because someone is bussing table for
20 years doesn't mean they are not leaders, especially if they own the place.
The reason most GA's are from business is the need to understand
domestic and international requirements of the Church, which are for the most
part business based. Granted there are few if any GA with fine arts
backgrounds, but then, the Church is not known for its ability to encourage
consenting opinions that contradicts or challenges doctrine.I have a
PhD and many of my books on anthropology, western migration of communities, and
the origin of native americans don't include the BOM (Book of Mormon) as a
citable source, and yes, I have gotten flack from members because of it. Doesn't
mean the Church isn't true.
Like one of the earlier posters I immediately noticed that these biographies did
not include information about where our leaders attended college. I'm also
certain that many of these leaders attended school at the u. Afterall, the Lord
best do have to go through the refiner's fire.
I'm sorry folks but don't you find it a little odd that god has chosen only
sucessful business men, lawyers, accountants and marketing executives to be the
hierarchy of his only "true church"? These men have devoted themselves to god
alright...and also the almighty dollar. The lds church is a multi-billion dollar
corporation, preying on the faith of people to make money. It's an
Wow...I am so amazed that a few simple biographies could bring so many varied
comments. I highly doubt that these short biographies were written to offend
anyone, or even to provoke any negative comments. It is amazing to
see how quickly people jump upon an opportunity to share negative responses. I
am glad to see that so many LDS people are defending their religion as best they
can. To those of you who feel it a necesity to share negative
remarks on this page, I ask you to reconsider, and let the members of The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints enjoy the priviledge of rejoicing in their
new leadership. Thank you.
Unlike most churches, the LDS Church has no career clergy. Every one of the
leaders called to these positions has already donated thousands of hours of
service, without compensation, to assist members of the Church. By and large,
they are giving up lucrative careers when they accept a call to serve in one of
the very few full-time leadership positions as general authorities. People who
live in Utah know how relatively modestly general authorities live, unlike the
mansion of Reverend Jeremiah Wright. These are people that any organization in
the world, business, government or non-profit, would love to have serving as
leaders. Besides the lawyers and businessmen, there are academics: Elders
Packer, Oaks, Nelson, Holland, Eyring and Bednar who have PhDs, MDs or JDs and
were full time teachers, professors and university administrators. Two of the
new Area Seventies were missionaries with me in Japan. Other denominations have
difficulty getting people this successful to participate in church, let alone
sacrifice their time and means to serve others. Remember Elder Uchtdorf's story
of how President Monson, with painful feet, ascended five flights of stairs to
visit and bless a dying member in Hamburg, Germany.
I believe we heard a significant piece of advice and wisdom from President
Monson at Conference: let us be kind and have respect for everyone, regardless
of what they write.
Thanks for showing the ignorance that we have come to know and expect from
people who just have no clue.It's amazing the fascination that many
of you have with money and the church....So sad that you have to
prove your ignorance with your silly posts....
We were so thrilled to hear to that James B. Martino, my former Stake President
and long-time friend, was called to be an Area Seventy. Elder Martino has
blessed the lives of many with his generous service in so many ways. Our prayers
are with him and his family as they embark this next phase of service to
Heavenly Father's precious children. --Dr. Max S. Chartrand
More people are called by relation than revelation. People who live in SLC and
Utah or anywhere the Church is large should already know that and it has been a
saying in SLC for many decades. People call people they know and in whom they
have proven experience and abilities. It is actually getting better now, because
most of the higher ups don't want their own children living at the insane pace
that their fathers do. I've noticed that many of the less successful and less
competent of the GA's kids enter the fulltime paid Church service. It is very
true though that many of these men give up very large salaries and ownership and
bonuses to join the GA ranks. They are just men like everyone else, but they
have skills that the Church needs. Yes, many do complain about the elitist
nature of the executive types. But this is a mature organization now, and the
talent and abilities continues to increase, so that the true nepotism of the
decades before has in many respects disappeared. Would be nice to see a black
in top spots.