Wait for the follow up story on the 9th where we are told 500 people show up at
the Gay Pride meeting. Then watch these same reporters try to spin it in a
manner adjunct to the gay agenda. No one knew about this meeting expect these
'media representatives'. I fully believe these individuals that held
this meetings are slightly off center and I would never attend such a meeting
myself. But for the media to try to push such stories on the populous because
they feel it is their 'duty' is just wrong. Report the news, don't try to make
it. What was that story about ABC News 'framing' a story on high
rates of depression in Utah? A similar situation couldn't be happening here
Be careful Utah that certain individuals, groups and media outlets will use any
public situation, if allowed to go untackled, to promote, push and force
Government laws in the favour of homosexuals and their practices. Do not be
brain washed or misled by anyone claiming homosexuality to be okay. It should be
avoided like paedophillia.
Gunter should have hit on the many other dangers out there. There are the
communists that are hiding around every corner and the crazed caffiene
addicts.Worry over gay people does not keep me up at night. What scares me? The high percentage of Utahns hopped up on
drugs that are out driving on the roads threatening the safety of my family and
anyone who tries to to cross the street. Parents that can't stay
happily married. Intolerant, judgemental parents turning up the pressure on
young people who have enough to deal with.
Only in Utah and especially Utah county. Its stories like this, full of
ignorance and intolerance, that make me ashamed to call myself a Utahn. And if you read both the D-news and the Trib look at the difference in
reporting styles. Although I understand the News is owned by the church they
could be a little more objective in how they covered the story.
Ms. Yana has a point -- public discussion should not degenerate into diseases
spread by homosexual activity. Even if all diseases associated with the "gay"
lifestyle were eliminated, homosexuality would not be converted into virtue.There is no reason for us to shrink from the truth. Pornography and
homosexual acts are wrong for individuals, degrading for societies, and
extremely harmful to their victims. We can and should spread this word to our
children. We must politely, but firmly disagree with those peddling these
perversions as worthy alternates to normalcy and decency.Among the
truths our children need to know are perversion's epidemiological effects, but,
medical fact is no substitute for moral truth.
I agree with "Don't Foll Me"! Thank God for Fox News!
There are forces in society (Gay Pride, MTV, prime time network programing to
name just a few) that relentlessly and aggressively push acceptance of
homosexuality on children. Their efforts are very successful with an age group
that seeks peer acceptance and often is looking for ways to show rebellion and
independence from parental and societal standards. Public school
officials are generally cowed and intimidated by these forces.
Parents are losing the battle for their own children. I know nothing
of this group but this issue is alive and real.
Just another example of hate mongering, veiled in "protecting the public and
children". It is very interesting that the video and information that this
presentation used were admittedly out of date. I think it's also very
interesting that in this same issue is a VERY RECENT story of a crackdown on
child pornography in Utah. It reports that heterosexual men and women are
guilty of trading child porn. It is a very old and tired argument that gay men
and women "recruit" children. Nothing is further from the truth. How
scandolous that the alleged "gay agenda" is promoting acceptance!!! Stephen
Graham ought to hold meetings on the dangers of spreading misinformation that
spawns fear generated violence on innocent and unsuspecting persons. I wonder
how many true sexual deviants (HETEROsexual pedophiles and sexual assaulters)
were in attendance at this gathering under the guise of "good Christian" people.
I agree that next week's meeting with have many more people in attendance. I
think that last night's meeting was more for show and to make the organizers
feel as if they were doing something, anything to combat some of what they feel
are society's ills. It's almost guaranteed that the LDS General Authorities will
address pornography and homosexuality during General Conference this weekend,
which for most of Utah County's residents will carry a lot more weight than what
was presented last night.
well, 20 people fell for the act. In a way I guess that is good. Could have
been a lynching party afterwards but ... and less would have shown that no one
can read (the newspaper, etc.).20? Not bad. Did anyone ask about
how many children are born that are gay? Did anyone ask? Did anyone ask if God
made those children?Oh so many questions, and so little time.
Who could disagree with a group using "Families" or "Liberty" in their name?Must be a carefully, patiently, and cunningly, organized plan to make
homosexuals the "them" in we vs them.Why is it that we have such a fear of
the unknown? That heterosexuals have such a deadly fear that if they don't make
enemies out of gay individuals they will be robbed of their Christian
credentials or their own kids will fall to that horrible perversion.They
never stopped to think that with all the hate and venom their kind thrusts upon
a person, who has known themselves to be gay from birth, that that person would
do everything they could to fit in and be like everyone else, considered
"normal", But they can't and don't because they have no more control over their
sexual orientation that I have over being left-handed or my eyes being blue.
Being hateful and pretending homosexuals don't exist won't change the numbers.
Neither will doing all you can to make their lives miserable. Try and put
yourself in the place of a parent with student who is gay. If you can't do so,
you may really be a Caveman.
... but please pay attention this time.Gay from birth? creepy but
also ludicrous. If there were a biological condition called "homosexuality" it
would leave its victims unable to reproduce. It would be an evolutionary dead
end; a genetic DEFECT (Mother Nature values reproduction very highly)Actually "homosexuals" change their behavior all the time; marry, have
children, have homosexual sex; if it is a genetic trait it must be the
"chameleon" orientation.Homosexuality is a behavior. Like all behavior it
is learnable and controllable. Like all behaviors, people will have varying
degrees of difficulty controlling it.It is certainly convenient to say
"God made me this way" and deny any responsibility for ones actions; denial of
responsibility is one of the alpha sicknesses in our society. But saying it over
and over and over won't make it true.Please quit pushing
homosexuality on children in public schools. It is bad for the children and bad
The notion that God made homosexuals, therefore God is OK with homosexuality is
nonsense. I believe that some people are born with homosexual tendencies. In
fact, all of us are born with some weakness of the flesh to one degree or
another.HOWEVER, we each have to resist and overcome our weaknesses. If
the measure is "whatever I'm born with is what God intended for me to have, so
it's OK to indulge in whatever urge I may have", then each of you can see what
kind of urges people may choose to follow that are NOT OK. If we all just follow
whatever impulse that we may have, we are indeed animals of the worst kind.
silly people, sexuality is a choice and is pavlovian.
Wow. When I consider how the DMN censors some of my blogs, and then read some of
these comments, I'm shocked. Anyway, for the record, I am a 40 year
old homosexual man, and I have never had a known, detectable sexually
transmitted disease in my entire life. And believe me, I get tested.If you want to end the spread of disease, help encourage a standard of
monogamy in the gay male population. Help bring about marriage equality.I single out the gay male population, because in case no one has
noticed, lesbians rarely contract any STDs. It's a function of the mechanics
of sex, not morality.
Once again the small minded people in Utah County show that they have their
heads buried in the sand. Have any of you ever met and actually spoke to gay
people about their lives? Do you really think that millions of people choose to
have these feelings and want to live tormented lives? Yes acting on the feelings
of homosexuality is a sin, though being born with those feelings is not a sin.
Perhaps some compassion and understanding on your part is in order. You should
focus on the crystal meth problem that is killing your children, not that there
might be a gay person living in your county.
Great comments, and Good going John. It's nice to see the silent majority with
Read carefully people: Having the opinion that a certain behavior is
wrong, immoral, or unhealthy has nothing to do with hate. Nor does advocating
against that same behavior.Try and apply it to a different issue. I
think it is unhealthy and wrong to not wash one's hands after using the toilet.
Does that mean I'm a hate monger? Of course not.
It sickens me to see all of the hate coming from people that say they are
Christians. To me a good Christian is understanding and will see the good in
others, and mind their own business. That is the problem with most people they
try to force their beliefs on to others because they just know they are right
and others are wrong. Keep your nose out and take care of your own and let
me worry about mine!Maybe we should burn some books while we are at it.I am tired of all the closed minds in HAPPY VALLEY!!!
Where did I hear this speech before?Oh,yeah. Ralph Fiennes gave it
in "Schindler's List". When you cross the line into this kind of hatred, you
profane all that is Holy by claiming you are doing God's will.
According to the Bible, the practice of homosexuality is an abomination before
God. In Romans, St. Paul strongly condemns the practice and those who encourage
the practice. The "anything goes" when it comes to sex crowd will one day answer
to God. Nihilism and rebellion against Christian principles has been going on
for several hundred years now. Society will crumble as the family disintegrates.
"Tolerance" and "acceptance" will not make right wrong and wrong right. In
addition, those who seem to be the most intolerant and angry over this issue are
those pushing the "gay agenda." They are often furious the "religious right"
can't see the "truth."
What is God's opinion? Read your Bible. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.
I thought I smelled bigotry and hatred on family night!
Just what is the "gay agenda"? So many on this message board (not a blog) seem
to know everything about the gay agenda but my gay brother doesnt know anything
about it. Are those mean gays keeping my brother out of the loop?Graham is
right, as the bigoted, hateful older generation dies off, gays will become
accepted. Just like those who wouldnt let blacks and whites marry have died off,
as mankind moves forward, someday gay marriage will become no big thing. I for
one hope that it happens sooner rather than later.
No matter how things are presented.No matter who presents them.There
are always those who will throw a temper-tantrum as to the supposed "Hate or
Fear" that is being spread/taught.People know what is right & what is
wrong.To "Scare" people into doing what is "Right" is just as wrong as
telling them there is no consequence for their choices.AIMHO
What exactly is 'The Gay Agenda'?Having the same rights as everyone
Hate and Fear and then justifying it in the name of God. As if anyone writing in
this forum knows the mind of God or what his creations are. All of this sounds
like how Blacks were treated in the South (and in some places in the North) and
how it was justified in God's eyes. The Genetic arguement sounds like how the
Jews were portrayed by Hitler. Just from my reading of the
scriptures, I think Christ would urge love a lot more then he would the hate and
fear that has been shown on this topic.
"Over 20 people attended the meeting." Wow! What is the population of the
ever-conservative Utah County? Sounds like the organizers of the meeting got
the attendance they deserved. They can't claim that nobody knew about the
meeting. They got free advertising in yesterday's DMN. I was going to note
that keynote speaker, Mr. Graham has probably never met a gay person. However,
I bet he has met plenty and doesn't even know it. There is no gay agenda.
Unless simply wanting to be accepted is an agenda. As to the radical gays, how
about the radical skinheads or the radical Black Panthers? Radicals never
represent anybody except other radicals.
This is Rosa Parks and Dr. King all over again. The new black agenda is the Gay
Agenda, it is going to destroy our children. Pretty soon, our daughters are
going to be marring colored boys and society will think that it's all right
because they were indoctrinated with acceptance and tolerance!!We
need to put a stop to this!
Wow, the good old science argument.In fact scientists have recently
shown that a population of NON reproducing people mixed in with the straight
population is very effective in times of war, and need, when people and parents
are dying in order to replace those parents and make up for lost productivity.
Think about it - you are a Mongol, your son is a warrior and your
youngest son is gay. Both you and your son die - who is to protect your children
and wives? Oh wait, now you're happy to have had a gay child. It's the same in
dogs, cats and other animals. While being gay is probably not 100% genetic its
benefits and how it strengthens a community have been shown by science.Life isn't as simple as you think it is. Also, I'm straight and
despite many efforts at gay seduction, have never given in - proving the
"recruitment" is baloney. People who are "recruited" were homosexual all along
and it's good they are out so they don't become forced to start regular families
that will sooner or later fall apart. No one can live a lie, you should learn
that one More time.
97% of the world's population practices heterosexuality, with total population
well over 6.2 billion. I don't think any perceived homosexual agenda is going
to destroy the world. Our prisons are overflowing with straight men raised in
Christian homes with both a father and mother. The world would be a better
place if we all just treated each other with respect and dignity. My neighbor
choosing to live a gay lifestyle has nothing to do with my personal
Obviously you aren't gay...have you ever asked a gay man if he "made himself
gay?" I have yet to meet a single gay person who "made" himself gay. Same
gender attraction isn't a choice...what you do even though you have that
attraction is a choice, however.
If we find a gene that codes for pedophilia does that mean we have to tolerate
and accept it? What about people who get an insane adrenaline rush from killing?
They all make the same argument: that they were born that way. Put my name on
the list in favor of self-control at all costs.
Matthew: If I compared your intimate relationships to unwashed hands after
using a toilet, how would you feel?
The suicidal behavior is a direct function of the intolerance.
Same gender attraction and it's affects future generations is worth
consideration. The impact is far reaching as it relates "A Traditional Family"
or "Traditional Family Values."Children witness behavior every day in
public Schools which is contrary to what they have been taught. Concerned
parents, speak with your children and let them know the real consequences that
follow this behavior. It is not difficult for our children to see it if you
talk to them. Talk to them.
Please, please, please don't quote the Bible as justification for persecuting
gays. Jesus never said anything about gays. In fact, the only group Jesus got
really mad at was hypocrites. Don't worry about my salvation...worry about
Homophobia is another example of Christian Hate. All wrapped up in the
hyprocacy that hating in the name of God makes it right. Your church leaders
preach to you that it is OK to attack anyone who doesn't believe as you do.
Weither that is social, religious, gender....it's all the same...News Flash....hate is hate.
Wow, listen to all the hate. It kind of makes you wonder why wome
of us don't accept that hate-the-sin-not-the-sinner rhetoric. Next
time some of you feel that you are the target of those anti's or feel some
persecution because of your beliefs, think about the attitude found in this
article and the responses to it. When your leaders talk about the
great divide that exists in this community think about how you may be
contributing to it.
I love how Utah is supposedly full of parents concerned about the negative
influences of Publik Skools on their children, but then the majority of these
same concerned parents votes down even the most modest attempts to reform those
supposedly evil Publik Skools.If Utahns don't think the school
system supports their values, why do they continue to support pouring
ever-increasing amounts of money down the rat hole of public education?
To: Phantom PantherThis is the same God in your book that allowed
his Prophets to have concubines....If it works for you...it's OK.
If it doesn't work for you....it's an ABOMINATION!!! Funny how they
look the same in the mirror...
I say let the far-right loons shout it loud and hard. People around the nation
expect this--it IS Utah Valley, after all (and there's nothing "Happy" about
it--believe me--I've been there.)
Is it that hard to worship a God that loves all his children?
This is all an April Fools joke - RIGHT!
You can bet that Graham and his supporters are much more informed than you think
they are and know plenty of "gay" people. His foundation is not against
homosexual people, but against the silencing of those who feel it can be changed
if individuals want that. The media pushes acceptance of homosexuality enough to
create every "tolerant" child you could possibly desire. We do not need schools
and the government to get in on the action too. Graham's foundation is not
trying to stop the Pride meetings or any other gay acceptance meeting, which we
all have admitted will have much more attendance. Is there any reason why they
should be so afraid of such a small number of parents getting together to become
informed and protect their children against something that is against their
religion? Why should parents lose their rights to teach what they believe? Since
when is religious belief less important than belief in sexual orientation? This
foundation is not trying to hinder the rights of those living the gay lifestyle,
but inform children about the very real and dangerous other side of this
Love me or I will kill myself. What's it going to be?It's all in
YOUR hands.I'm waiting.
then you must hate me, and if I am the victim of hate then I must be right.
Isn't that how it works?
It is refreshing that there are still people with backbones, who will stand up
for what is right and has always been right, without worrying about what babylon
According to "L." at McSweeney's, this is the secret gay agenda:7:45
a.m. Alarm rings8:00 a.m.-8:10 a.m. Take shower8:15 a.m.-8:30 a.m.
Dress and put items into briefcase8:35 a.m. Leave house8:45 a.m.
Starbucks9:00 a.m. Arrive at job12:00 p.m. Lunch with a co-worker.
Perhaps Chili's?12:45 p.m. Return to job1:30 p.m.-2:30 p.m.
Meeting5:00 p.m. Leave work5:30 p.m.-6:30 p.m. Work out in gym7:00 p.m. Return home7:20 p.m. Prepare and eat dinner8:00 p.m.
Watch Law & Order on TNT11:00 p.m. Go to sleep Dangerous
I am straight. But like all of you (even if you arent aware of it), I have had
many friends and acquaintances, who I later learned were gay. I can honestly
say that no one has ever tried to push their homosexual agenda on me or convert
me. I was never privy to intimate details of personal relationships, nor would
I expect to be. My conclusion? My children are in danger from pedophiles, not
homosexuals. Grahams statements are made out of fear. What I find really
frightening is the Them Versus Us mentality that is so pervasive in our country.
It feeds racism, sexism, violence, hate and bigotry. Our country was not
founded on divisiveness.
The thing that bothers me the most is that our Godless government is not only
smothering religion, but they are peddling the homosexual agenda through their
I was raised around many open gays and lesbians. They never brought an agenda
(with bullet points) to any gathering. They never tried to recruit me to
homosexuality. In all my years, I have never once been offered a toaster for the
chance to join the "gay lifestyle." I am at a loss when I hear statements like
This clown is carrying on about the "Gay Agenda". In years past, it would have
been the "Jewish Agenda" or the "Irish Agenda" or the "Mormon Agenda". A bigot
is a bigot is a bigot.
I don't have exact numbers but heterosexuals get divorced at what - around a 50%
rate for first marriages and above 60% for the second. Teen pregnancies,
infidelity, porn, pedophilia, sexual assaults, STDs rampant among heterosexuals,
severe drug and prescription abuse in Utah, etc etc. And these yahoos spend all
their time and energy worrying about spreading fear and disinformation regarding
an inborn human trait.Even a plea in general conference for more
love, acceptance and a stop to the public criticism of homosexuals would not
slow down their hate and fear train. They beat to their own fundamentalist
agenda and no one can tell them otherwise. Some people see conspiracies and
Satan around every corner and yet somehow they can look at themselves in the
mirror and believe they are furthering God's work. There is a church that tends
to picket at soldier funerals and even our late Prophet's funeral that would
probably be a bit more in line with their attitudes.
Those that believe one can change their sexual orientation - would you want your
daughter to marry one of these changed men?When she starts wondering
what's wrong with her, why she feels so unattractive, what are you going to tell
her? "Suck it up honey, you're helping to change him."
Oh my goodness . . . Some of you people actually think that the sexuality of
your children can be altered by some TV's shows and the yet-to-be-defined "gay
agenda"? Hilarious! I envy what must be your very comfortable lives if GAYS
are your most pressing concern. Are your kids really so impressionable?
Frankly, I'm a lot more concerned about paying for college in 15 years. On a related topic, I didn't see Mr. Graham's or Mr. Gunter's creditials
noted in the article. Are they professors of some sort? Scientists, social
scientists, politicians, academics, relgious leaders, community leaders, golf
pro's, dry-wallers, latent homosexuals--or what? What qualified them to speak
on this subject? Did anyone at this newspaper think to ask?
So, refresh my memory - tell me again what is so wrong with acceptance? What is
so wrong with accepting those among us who are different?If you
really think there is a "gay agenda" to push homosexual acceptance on society,
look no further than groups like SoL - you can't blame gay people for fighting
back against this kind of intolerance. Of course they're going to "push an
agenda," if that's what you want to call it, because the agendas of groups like
these are working every day to push homosexuals into a shamed, degraded,
looked-down-upon second class of society. If there was a group out
there trying to push you into that dark corner, wouldn't you fight back too?I can only hope these kinds of groups stay on the fringe of society.
Tolerance is a virtue! And even more so when you disagree. Keep
your own morality in your own home. When in public, spend your valuable time
and energy on more pressing matters - not on blindly and vehemently hating those
who are different than you.
This is madness - people use the word "agenda" to describe beliefs that don't
match their own. I am so sick of the extremes in today's society. This country
(maybe not this County) is a country of reasonable, compassionatem thoughtful
people and yet the only voices we tend to hear are those screaming either from
the far left or right. I guess when you are in the minority you learn to yell in
order to get some attention. It's a shame though that it tends to block out or
minimize the majority who don't buy the extremes of either side. You see the
same thing in the creationism versus evolution debate. It only involves finger
pointing from both ends and speaks over the majority who (regardless of which
way they lean) prefer a civilized conversation that respects a variety of
thoughts and opinions.
I think that is what the savior would say about this.Homosexuals are not
the enemy. They are loved by our Father in Heaven as much as the rest of us.It is the sin of Homosexuality that God hates. It is the acceptance of this
sin in our society that is alarming. It is that bad is called good and good is
It's really quite laughable that people still claim that there is no "gay
agenda". If there is no "gay agenda" why are there gay advocacy groups. Tell
me one advocacy group that doesn't have an "agenda". Let's see... The NRA, the
NEA, ADAPT, BACA, MADD, the Sierra Club, the ACLU, the NAACP, the Humane
Society, Amnesty International, the American Cancer Society, all have "agendas".
There really is nothing wrong with an advocacy group having an "agenda" -
that's the point of the advocacy group. What is suspicious is having
an advocacy group (and the group that is being advocated for) claim they don't
have an agenda. What are you trying to hide?
Homosexuality is not a moral issue. The speakers are spreading ignorance and
lies.My brother is 44 years and gay. He finally told me about it,
after years of deep depression, denial and refusal to recognize his sexuality as
nothing he can change. His homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with his
ability to be morally sound person.
Yep, all those "gays" are just experimenting and choose to live a lifestyle
where they are harrassed, persecuted, beaten, hated and vilified. Yep, it's just
a choice and they can go back to being "normal" but they would rather be hated
then conform. Right..... How silly are all of you who think it is a choice?
Yes, I will admit there are a very few that "swing both ways", those who do
experiment just to push their parent buttons or to rebel against the social
norm, but the MAJORITY of gays and lesbians are BORN THIS WAY. They do not learn
it.. if they do learn it, then let me ask this, who did they learn it from? They
were born into hetrosexual families so maybe the parents did soemthing wrong??
HMMM. This is not a choice. Just like all you straights can not "choose" to be
gay, those who are gay can not "choose" to be straight. It just goes against
their make up. There is nothing wrong or predatory about them. There is no
recruiting agenda. They just want to live a normal life, like everyone else!!!
I am in support of activities and speeches that appropriately condemn sexual
relations outside of marriage and that seek to prevent homosexual unions and
marriages from being and/or becoming lawful.
How embarrassing that my hometown was the location for this hate mongering. A
library is supposed to be a place for increasing knowledge not ignorance and
I'm from Indiana but as a friend of Steve's, I'm hard pressed to see how this is
classified as hate. How can opposing a lifestyle harmful to many of its
practitioners and leading many to early graves be hateful? It's not loving to
tell such folks they have to be homosexual the same way it's not loving to shoot
drugs.The Centers for Disease Control just came out with a new
report how HIV cases rose 48% from 2005 to 2006 and the CDC website (yeah, that
bastion of conservatism) maintains, despite its personal wishes to the contrary,
that it is MSM (men having sex with men) as the number one factor for the rise
in AIDS and HIV. I didn't make it up. It's on their website. Google it for
yourself.I reject going into people's bedrooms to see what they do
and believe in live and let live but destructive behaviors like these (facts do
not lie) should not be promoted in schools or as matters of public policy.Many people have left this unnatural and risky lifestyle so it can be
done. There's help for those trapped. Do not reject those who want help to do
Whether homosexuality is a choice is irrelevant to me.What saddens
me is the choice that certain Utahns have made to be intolerant bigots.
As a parent I would have huge concerns about my daughter marrying a man who had
dabbled with homosexuality.Which is why it is so devastating when
young teenagers get duped into "outing" themselves. That is a sticky trap to get
out of, and can have lifelong consequences.Which is why society
needs to protect youth from aggressive homosexual advocacy groups, especially in
Why is it that everyone calls us closed-minded? Aren't the so-called open-minded
people being closed-minded for not letting someone think differently from what
you think? Just because I believe homosexuality is a sin doesn't mean I'm
closed-minded, it just means we think differently. If you ask me, you're
closed-minded for not letting me believe what I want.
First, why do Gays insist on defining themselves by who they sleep with? I
define myself by what I do and don't do.Second, feel free to deny the
"agenda" but it is real. That is why schoolbooks in California are no longer
allowed to contain the words "family", "mother" or "father". Look it up and
learn. It's the tip of the iceburg.Third, gay people have the same rights
that I have. When they speak of equal rights they actually mean "additional or
special rights". fourth, people are not born gay. To say they were born
that way discounts nature and God. Explain the OH guy arrested for having sex
with his picnic table? Or the guy caught doing it to a swimming pool in FLa?
Or the guy killed in WA by the horse he was "with"? They were born with the
desire to "make it" with tables, pools, and animals? If you want to be gay go
ahead but don't ask us to say that it is acceptable behavior. And don't call us
"haters" because we refuse to do so.
Forget about homosexuality for a moment and look at this for what it is. An outside special interest group intimidated a parent organization
and/or a school principal to the point of dictating what they can and cannot do
in a meeting.That doesnt alarm you?!This was not a
school event, this is a private organization. Did this group attend because they
have kids at that school? Or did they attend in a deliberate effort to control
thinking? I dont care what their agenda is -- they could be out to
place homeless kittens with loving families for all I care -- the truth is they
are frequently guilty of intimidating, shaming and bullying those who believe
differently than they do. And then have the audacity of accusing organized
religions of this behavior! Their practices are at best
manipulative, and at worst insidious social engineering. And notice
how you never hear about this group donating huge amounts of money, supplies or
volunteers to help disaster victims. Thats because all their
resources go towards one thing: influencing us. Hmm. Do
they want to make the world a better place, or control how it thinks? Its all
The opinions of a fringe speaker, who wasn't allowed to speak at the PTSA
meeting and ended up with barely any audience are evidence of the small
mindedness of Utah County? There are anti-gay groups in San
Francisco who attract much larger gatherings. Does that make San Franciscans
small minded?Being small minded is not allowing someone else their
opinion, and is usually what you become whenever you attempt to label another
person or group as small minded.
First, I have to say, GO this guy for standing up for what is wrong, when the
whole world is being whitewashed into thinking it's totally good and right!I moved from Utah two years ago, and just like to come here to read
about college sports, but reading things like this happening in Utah is
astounding. It's not nearly this bad where I live, and I live in a liberal hub.
There are definitely forces at work there trying to reverse what most of
society there believes. You rarely see things like this in the part of the US
where I live. It's a scary world there where bad is now considered good.
I forgot was it Adam and Eve or Adam and Steve?
"If you disagree with me then you must hate me, and if I am the victim of hate,
then I must be in the right. Isn't that how it works?"The problem
with that statement is that it is so brilliant, it went over the heads of most
the people involved in THIS discussion!WELL SAID, who ever you
if god is going to judge all these "horrible sinners" then why do we have to do
it to? i have a lot on my plate right now and i dont think i can fit in hating
another group of people on top of everything else
So In my life I ve learned a few things. You can't control others. You can't
change minds. You can't change hearts. Only Heavenly Father can. Even If we don
t agree with homosexuals, doesn t mean we need to hate them. Our job is to Love
and accept them. Not their actions, cause in the end God is the judge and each
person has their own free will. God knows our hearts. We can teach our children
what we want, and give our testimony of what is true. It is still others choice
to listen and except it. If our families or friends choose that road we can talk
till we are blue in the face. In order to stop a problem we need to communitcate
in a way that isn t unkind but in a way that doesn t point fingers. The truth is
no one knows everything, and in the end Heavenly father will make the judgement.
I for one am sick of the Mormon Agenda. Isn't it a bit ironic that the
LDS church is guilty of the same thing it accuses gays of? i.e. Trying to
recruit people to conform to their way of thinking and their life styles to fit
their beliefs and doing so in schools? What about forcing people to live by a
set of beliefs that many can find opposition to from the bible? Maybe if the
Homosexual community had tax exempt status people would be more accepting.
Hypocrisy at it's finest.Now, who's going to be the first to say
either "But that's different..." or the dead horse phrase of "If you don't like
it then move.."
Ever notice how those decrying hate and bigotry do so in the most hateful and
This story illustrates that hate and intolerance are Utah family values.
Well said! I have friends and relatives who live a homosexual
lifestyle. I have no problem being tolerant of those who choose to live a
homosexual lifestyle. But, I do object to homosexuals and their
apologists pushing an agenda to force everyone to accept their lifestyle as
being normal and moral.
I am just blown away that people such as Mr. Gunter are even given a forum in
the first place. I feel bad that he believes that there is a "gay agenda". All
that ANY of us wants is to be accepted as decent people, regardless of race,
creed or sexual orientation. I have many "gay" friends and not ONCE have any of
them tried to be inappropriate in any way. Most live in fear that they will be
"outed"....now is THAT any way to live one's life, in fear???? That's what
people of Mr. Gunter's crowd want.....is to put the fear into all those who are
"different". Welcome once again to the politics of fear. Sad.
To Divorce rate, etc.: Two wrongs don't make a right. Listing off
wrongs does not somehow justify a different form of wrongdoing. Having sex with
the same sex is unnatural & wrong. Saying otherwise is misinformation & harmful
to everyone including self-proclaimed gays. To anyone else it
concerns:How can you say being gay is inborn? That is an opinion far
from being proven as fact. By my definition, gay pertains to those who engage
in sexual acts with the same sex, & until then you aren't gay. Therefore it's
impossible to be gay at birth, speaking in my terms. We were born
male or female with natural desires that develop as our bodies develop the
sexual ability to procreate (In case you failed sex-ed, this requires a male and
a female). Desires outside the purpose of the bodies natural sexual development
may sometimes develop, but they are perversions of thought and lead to unnatural
behaviors. In fact, all wrongdoing was first preceded by an inappropriate
thought.Some say we are born with evil inclinations, but any baby is
evidence that this is false. How is accepting bad thoughts (Unproven
inclinations) appropriate? It perpetuates into sorrowful actions. Some favor!
If being gay is genetic, why aren't both identical twins gay? I am familiar
with several sets where one is and one isn't. How can that be?And,
when can we get past being labeled as haters just for disagreeing. This is the
classic lib argument and, frankly, it is old and tired. Calling me names
because I disagree with you is a poor rebuttal and the tool of the ignorant.
Homosexuals and liberals always try to demonize and label those who speak out
against homosexuality as "hateful, close-minded, descriminatory" because they're
unable to debate the issue- so they resort to name calling. It's their only
defense as they know that conservative values are right and their lifestyle is
wrong and harmful to society. This issue needs to be addressed. The history of
any culture which embraces homosexuality is a history of social decay and
self-destruction. FACT. Any society which perverts itself in this manner and
does not protect and uphold the basic relationship for procreation/buidling
block for the continuing of society and the species will eventually
self-destruct. Very dangerous times we live in. The homosexuals in California
are endoctrinating the children because they can't have their own children. We
need more politicians with character and moral courage to stand up against
To all of you who say homosexuals don't recruit, I say you are wrong. My
teenage son was groomed by an older boy, who had come out of the closet to his
peers as a homosexual. This same young man also groomed other young boys, all
two to three years younger than himself. When they told us the things this
older boy did and said to get them interested, it was clear to me that it was a
textbook example of a sexual predator grooming his victims. Don't ever try to
tell me that homosexuals don't recruit! Perhaps many don't, but many do. As
far as whether homosexuality is wrong or right, you need not look any further
than the Proclomation on the Family. These are truly inspired words. This
doesn't mean we are to hate anybody. In fact, just the opposite. Hate the sin,
not the sinner.
As a Utah public school teacher with over 15 years of experience, I must have my
head buried in the sand. I have NEVER seen or heard of the "homosexual agenda"
being promoted in my school. That subject has always been considered taboo. If
a student ever brings the subject up in my class (it happens occasionally) I
have such a panic attack that I worry all night about having "handled" it in the
"right" way. Just for the record--my response is always the same--"please talk
with your parents about it" and then we immediately go on with the required
This month my reading has involved "The Book of Mormon," "Early Mormonism and
the Magic World View," some conference talks I have enjoyed in prepartion for
General Conference, and "Guns, Germs and Steal."My point? Open your
mind and gather as much diverse information and opinions and possible. It feels
good to make decisions based on a whole spectrum of ideas, opinions and
information. It can be debilitating to feel like all that you think and do must
be confined within a pre-determined, developed- since-birth, religious/cultural
After reading though this litany of snide, pro-homosexual comments, I can see
the concern of the moral community: the homosexual agenda is succeeding. One more evidence of the decline of a once great nation as it follows
the downward spiral of former great nations. America needs to wake and shape up.
My Great Great Grandfather a good Mormon Practiced Plural Marriage in this
State,at a time when Mormons were being raided and killed since Nauvoo
Illinois. Whats wrong with this picture Mormons about gay men and women? Why
cannot you accept them why subject your children to Electric Shock Therapy Like
I went through at BYU at 19 in the early 80s, their little known SECRET LDS Cure
homosexual Program!Its a very SAD day here in Utah, even among
Mormons where people equate homosexuality with Pedophiles, when most Pedophiles
Sorry, but I wouldn't call this "hate mongering," nor would I say that this
would only happen in Utah. As much as I don't agree with some of the things that
were said by the group, I don't oppose their RIGHT to say it. While we have yet
to define what "rights" people have to marry each other, there does exist a
right to the freedom of speech. This group shouldn't be silenced for pertaining
to an unpopular belief that homosexuality is wrong. Again, I may disagree with
much of what they say, but they should have every right to formulate and express
this opinion.Secondly, I think that you cannot lump all civil rights
movements together; by doing so, you cannot adequately confront each issue
entirely. Sorry, but I roll my eyes a little when I read things like "hate
mongering," and likening this situation to "racism, sexism, violence, hate and
bigotry." This little meeting, no matter how controversial, is far from these
labels. It is alarming to me to see a society that throws such words around
carelessly. "Our country was not founded on divisiveness." The Founding Era was
quite divisive, actually.
... is no more about sex than heterosexuality is about sex. Graham's
group focuses rabidly on sex, sex, sex. Sex acts. Naked bodies. Diseases. They
think about sex more than the people out having sex. I see nothing on Graham's
"family" site about curbing the spread of emotional bonding between men and men
or women and women. Just sex. Sex, sex. SEX!Some people bond
emotionally with same-sex people in a way that's impossible for them to do with
opposite-sex people. Some of these same people engage in physical intimacy. Some
do not. Mr. Graham's web site features a variety of lies about
disease and homosexuality. The site claims if two people have sex,
they will catch HIV if the two people are gay but not if they are straight. His site says LDS Church members who feel attracted to people of the
opposite sex but never act on it must also be punished because they are perverse
and wrong in the Lord's eyes. (Last time I checked, temptation was not a sin
according to LDS doctrine.) My beliefs have no place for people who
lie, manipulate, and militantly labor to create fear and misunderstanding in the
name of Christ.
You hit it on the head with your own words. "Advocacy group."Do you
belong to an advocacy group? If you are straight, does Planned Parenthood
represent your agenda since they deal primarily with issues related to
procreation, pregnancy, and prophylactics? If you are gay, does the LDS
Same-Gender Family Home Evening Group that meets monthly in Alpine represent
your views with what they advocate? You're right. The only agendas
are those of individuals or groups, and no group or person can sweepingly define
an entire class of people or represent the desires of each. Get over
it with the agenda thing.
I wonder if Graham got a standing ovation. Geez I'm glad I don't live in Utah
You say: "The homosexuals in California are endoctrinating the children because
they can't have their own children."I'm wondering if by this you are
implying that if same-sex couples were to have children, they would all be gay.
But since they can't, they're trying to influence the children of others to
become gay. In case you hadn't noticed, every single gay person I
know came from straight parents. Typical, everyday, mother-and-father families
in Utah just keep on creating more and more gay children. Hmmm.
Our communities and our nation as a whole needs to come together on policy and
program to address the gay problem it is a sickness that will do lasting damage
and harm to our society if we don't get it solved and under control. The natural
laws of nature do not support homosexual social intergration. We can not fight
and win over nature; we will lose and all pay the price for defiant gay agendas.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that groups such as the "Standard Of
Liberty" do more to promote the "gay agenda" than anyone at the "Gay Pride
Center" ever could. They are so unreasonable and non-factual that they are easy
targets for those who promote Gay rights. Instead of "raising awareness" their
heavy handed tactics and extremism only serve to create sympathy for Gays and
help promote the very things they are trying to avoid.You guys need
to get rid of people like Steve Graham and Chris Buttars and get someone who can
make a logical case for their point of view.
That man WAS a pedophile. I hope that you and the other families involved took
the proper action and had the man arrested, but there is a difference between
being gay and being a pedophile. I am a gay man who has absolutely ZERO
inclinations towards having ANY type of sexual contact with children of either
sex. And as far as the Proclomation of the Family comment, I have no idea what
your referring to.
The homosexuals in California are endoctrinating the children because they can't
have their own children.Tell me you are not serious! Sorry,
but I am a straight 6th generation Californian, left only to attend school here,
and I have never heard of such paranoia. Most homosexuals arent pedophiles, are
free to adopt children in some states; and surprisingly enough, their children
usually do not become homosexual. It really isnt considered a learned behavior.
Homosexuals would benefit little by indoctrinating your children.
Homosexuality has been around for centuries. Consider yourself safeit has never
wiped out heterosexuality or you wouldnt be here to make such bizarre
So what is your FINAL SOLUTION to the "gay problem"?
There are a lot of people who keep referring to homosexuality as a sickness.
Alrighty then, is it a viral infection? How do you catch it? Is it an air
borne germ that you catch at a Cher concert? If is WERE a disease, why isn't
there a pharaceutical company working on a vaccine? OR is it a disease that you
catch by being recruited? None of you anti gay people seem to be on the
same track. You seem to have more reasons for homosexuality than the gay
community does, and yours only raise more questions than answers.
Straight people like you have children like me....GAY! I like to think it's
God's way of proving to you that you really don't have a clue how things
work.LONG LIVE THE GAY AGENDA!!
I read these comments and it truly sickens me. I for one choose not to judge and
feel that will be God and God job alone. I do however find it humorous that all
the Bible thumpers constantly bring up the fact that being Gay is a sin. They
also form these groups with the soul purpose of going out and spreading their
inaccurate opinions. But I also believe the Bible says that Gluttony is a
sin.... And how many fatty's do you see in the Chapel each Sunday.. Judge not
lest ye be judged yourself. I for one choose to love those around me. I will
teach my children the same, and will save the judgments for God.
who do homosexuals have to prove themselves to anyone.. why do they have to
prove they were born that way.. how people wish to live their lives is their own
business.. if you dont' like it start your own country that is not free.. and
you can pick and choose who is accepted and who isn't. ridiculous every
one of you.. and what a waste of time to sit and get all worked up about what
two adults are doing behind closed doors. You can't shelter your kids from the
world their whole lives, and as far as I know gay's aren't out recruiting.Educate yourselves, perhaps utah needs to spend more money in their schools
seeing as how they're dead last in the nation, its any wonder why everyone calls
Just so you know, when the AIDS epidemic first started, then President Regan ask
for a study to see if it were possible to round up all the homosexuals and lock
them away. Something along the same lines as the way Japanese citizens were
treated. The problem was the cost and the way to actually make sure you had all
the homosexuals rounded up. Is this what you had in mind??
As a straight male with a live-and-let-live life philosophy, although I am just
as puzzled at a same-sex attraction as anyone else (not my choice) I really
couldn't care less what other people choose to do with each other.I
was raised with the notion that those who are secure with their sexual
preference also couldn't care less about others. I have always
thought it strange how some people freak out at homosexuals (or at least,
pretend to) and start obsessing about the behavior.Methinks thou
protest too much. Why?
I live in Utah County, in fact I went to American Fork High School. I do not
hate gay people. I have gay friends. I do not agree with what gay people do,
but I don't hate them. Please stop all the hating of people who are LDS in Utah
RE:Screen Age,Loved the comments, you're absolutely right about the
methods of gay activists, but they are not unique in their methods or motives,
the "Christian Right" is every bit the power monger that the Gay Lobby is.RE:Personally,Who ever said this was about the "Mormon
Agenda"? The Mormon church was not mentioned in this article, nor was the
meeting well attended. I can assure you that if this was part of a so called
"Mormon Agenda", at a minnimum, the meeting would have been well attended and
the refreshments would have been excellent.I agree with many posters
here that it seems to be a sad reality that dissagreeing with someones way of
life is often equated to hatred. Unfortunately the way we dissagree often
sounds hateful. Having sexual relations with anyone but a
consenting member of the opposite sex is wrong, it is wrong by nature, and for
me it is wrong by belief. I'm a public advocate of this and I teach my it to my
children, however, I also believe that every person on this earth is one of Gods
children and they all should be treated with respect and dignity.
I moved out of Utah County.I respect everyone's right to have their
own point of view on the matter. However, I have to say that the
venom, judgment, and hostility toward homosexuals on this message board is
astounding. One can disagree amicably without resorting to attacks.I would have expected better from such a supposedly religious part of the
country. Frankly, it makes you Utahans look simple, ignorant, and intolerant.
Again, this is not for simply disagreeing; rather, the way you disagree and
extremely ignorant views that inform that disagreement. But go
ahead and pile on...
The way I understand it (as a straight person) is the "Gay Agenda" consists of
wanting equal rights for gay people and to not be descriminated against. Equal
rights and anti-bigotry is a pretty evil agenda. I can see why these people are
warning parents against this agenda.To claim the "Gay Agenda" is
anything more than gay people wanting equal rights is just a lie. A lie to
justify bigotry towards a group of people who are different than the majority.
That is quite disgusting to decent people.This group meeting with
parents to warn them about gay people pushing for equal rights and to not be
descriminated against sounds quite similar to KKK meetings discussing the same
issues regarding blacks in the sixties. How is the first OK in Utah County,
when the second would be evil to most decent people? Same issue, different
group of people.
If you believe that people are "gay" the homosexual activists have successfully
Gays do recruit! As a high high school student many years ago I was very
actively recruited by a group of gays in my school. It WAS there agenda to try
to get as many involved as they could. The first time is the trick. If you can
get a guy to participate once he loses all self-esteem and reduces himself to
that level. When self-respect is gone it is easy to convince someone that they
are different or "queer." The best explanation to save face because of a bad
choice is to blame the problem on something that is uncontrollable saying that
they were born that way and that is their lot in life. But, this group made no
qualms about the fact that gay was their choice. They even questioned other gays
when they made that claim. I have never known a gay man (I have known plenty)
who had any significant level of self-confidence. And no, the lack of esteem was
not the result of being gay, it was the cause. By the way: every single member
of the group that tried to get me to conform to their lifestyle died of AIDS.
All of them.
Well sadly people who think that a gay person chooses to be gay is obsured. Do
strait people choose to be strait...??? I have found that there is no such thing
as choosing one way or the other.When my family rejucted me as there
child and started hating me i tried to kill myself because i lost those who i
was brought up thinking that they loved me. Suicide is a reprecution of people
and churches showing hate for those who are different.Also if you
check the # of new STD's with all the states and cross check with the persons
sexual orientation you will find more heterosexuals are getting STD's than
Homosexuals.If we as a people were to actualy live the teachings of
Jesus then we would show unconditional love to those around us.Untill that happens i will fight for Human rights to live life and love who
ever you love as long as it is not harmful to that person.Pedofilia
is mentaly harful to children and majority of pedofiles are heterosexual men
that want to have power over children. The sad thing is that my family accept
the pedofile brother for heterosexual reasons.
I am convinced that those conservative types who whine, scream and carry on
about people they don't even know or are nowhere around them, (in this case I'm
talking about gay people) have got to be hiding something, but aren't doing a
very good job of it.100% straight people don't give a (bleep) what others
do in the privacy of their homes or the lifestyle they choose.
Even if enough people declare wrong to be right, it doesn't make it so. Declaring anyone who disagrees with you to be a hate-monger is equally
wrong.If you believe it is wrong and have the guts to say so, that
doesn't make you a hater.Some are more skillful at making their
arguments... That doesn't make them more right or more wrong, but it does make
them more persuasive... unless of course, you disagree with them, then I guess
it makes them a hater
God has given commandments for our happiness and well-being. We should trust
Him. As for the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth, further
understanding has been provided by modern prophets. We are not to have sexual
relations with anyone who is not our husband or wife. Unfortunately, both gays
and straights violate that commandment and indulge the desires of the "natural
man". This leads to estrangement from God, spiritual death and unhappiness.
God loves all people, and He wants us to be "one" with Him; to have true
happiness and joy. This requires that we "put off the natural man" - regardless
of sexual orientation. Unfortunately, most popular entertainment and the
politically correct, tell us we will only be happy if allowed the freedom to
indulge the drives of the natural man (or woman). But this doesn't lead to
lasting happiness. Children should be taught that the true path to happiness is
to trust God, and do our best to follow him and to deny ourselves of all
ungodliness. In the current environment, this is not taught in the public
schools, so we must ensure it is taught in our homes and churches and synagogues
Just because someone considers an act -- adultery, prostitution, homosexuality,
lying, stealing -- as immoral, doesn't necessarily make that someone
anti-whoever is committing the act.There are many gay people who are
wonderful people and do much good. Being gay and doing good are not mutually
exclusive. Just as being straight and doing evil are not mutually exclusive.It is possible to hate the act without hating the person who is
committing the act.
Put Homosexuality on your resume, see how far it gets you.It's a
choice and not a good one. It's not the norm even if those practicing it want it
to be. Next time you're out in public, announce loudly, I'm a
homosexual and see what it gets you.
I am a gay man. Believe me when I tell you that I have a very healthy and
significant self esteem. Any issues I may have had in the past had NOTHING to
do with my sexual identity, it stemmed from the constant string of bigotry and
animosity I have received from those who proclaim their virtues as a Christian.
another fine example of;Family ValuesMormon ValuesConservative ValuesRepublican ValuesUtah ValuesPlease
stay away from me, I don't want to catch the sort of "social" diseases you are
trying to spread.
Not really knowing much about the topic, most of the instances I read on this
board of gay recruiting, are involving teenagers. This doesnt really say much,
since sexual promiscuity for heterosexual teenagers is just as prevalent. I
would think that if you dont want teenagers to be sexually active (both
heterosexually and homosexually) then you should probably begin with an
informative and open discussion at home. To ignore this as a parental
responsibility, no doubt will lead to problems that you will eventually have to
face one way or another.
Gay Agenda Definition They have equal rights. You mean additional
rights.There is a Gay Agenda. It is to get the lifestyle mainstreamed and
accepted as normal by whatever means necessary. Hence SB1441 in Cal. Also,
about 15 years ago the Congress debated a bill that had an addendum that would
have "forced" ALL universities to teach creationism and homosexuality as an
alternate lifestyle. Most people don't know how close the church came to
closing the doors of BYU, Ricks, and BYU-H. I was not involved directly but I
was a pretty close bystander to the administrators (almost family close), and
they were VERY worried. Luckily the bill failed. You want an agenda put that
on the list. Also, fall 2007 there was a class on Michigan's campus title
"How to be Gay: Male Homosexuality as a Cultural Practice". It was repeatble
for a total of six credit hours. Eng317 sec001. Taught by Halperin,David M.
Our tax dollars at work!
As a straight male I would agree that gay behavior is weird to me, but I really
don't care one way or the other what other do.The people who make the
biggest deal about it are no doubt hiding something.
I would like to know how some people would feel if i said that i don't want to
have the christian agenda pushed on me. I don't want to have my children
indoctrinated with their beliefs. Christianity is not the only way to be a
person who has sound morals.
Someday, hopefully sooner than later, the phrase "Gay lifestyle" or "Gay agenda"
will be thought of like we think the phrase "taking the motor car to the moving
picture show" is for us today.
The ironic thing is that lesbians have far lower STD rates than heterosexuals.
So should we avoid that unhealthy straight lifestyle??
A truly happy, well-adjusted straight person isn't concerned with the sexual
habits of others.They simply do not care one way or the other.I wonder what it is that the most vicious of gay-haters are hiding (or
trying to hide)?
"A truly happy, well-adjusted straight person isn't concerned with the sexual
habits of others?"What an extremely naive and thoughtless comment.
I'm sure I could give you examples of sexual habits that would upset even you,
but this is a family newspaper blog.I don't hate gays and have
nothing to hide, but I do fear that if the gay lifestyle ever becomes the
"norm," there will be nothing left of society worth preserving.
Fact is: we don't care one way or the other about your sexual habits. That's
ultimately between you and God. What we do care about is your incessant whining
for the public acceptance of your habits.Simple concept here: if
you don't want people to talk about it, keep it to yourselves.PS -
your argument doesn't really gain anything by the constant name calling of
anyone who disagrees with you.
Listen up you defensive types. I just read nearly every message on here. I did
NOT, repeat, did NOT read any overt hate. No one hates you. You get mad at
people because they say homosexuality is a sin. Well, it is! If that makes you
upset, get mad a God; alot of good that will do you. We did not make the
rules. We do however stand by the Saviour and the rules He set up for those who
wish to return to His presence. All sexual promiscuity is a sin, heterosexual
and homosexual. Sex is for within the bonds of marriage for 2 people (a man and
a woman) who have saved that precious gift for the one they want to spend their
life/eternity with. This life is not all there is. It is however a time to
prepare to meet God and we don't want to waste it. No one hates
you. We just do NOT like the sin and the way it is growing and affecting
I don't believe that homosexuality should be portrayed as acceptable, but be
careful how you judge. I once knew someone who was gay who would have chosen not
to be if he could.
...there are no debates as to if heterosexuality is right or not. So, if it
takes 3 pages to discuss this, and many pages every time this issue comes up,
couldn't it be a possibility this is NOT a good thing to be involved in? Just a
I get so tired of hearing about the "gay agenda". I have been in a relationship
for 10 years and the only agenda I have is to go bowling 2 nights a week and to
keep my life as simple as possible.I work hard, try to live a good
life, pay my bills and travel when I feel like it.I don't tell my
children to hate others because they are different. I have served my church and
my country.Now let me live in peace as far away from the bigots that
populate the state of Utah.
A glance at Re: hiding 3:55 & 4:04indicates that these people simply
cannot get beyond their obsession with gay people and what gay people do or
don't do in the privacy of their own homes. These people who are obviously
hiding something (those 100% secure with their sexuality, simply don't care) and
would have us believe gay people are storming into their houses like al quaida
is supposed to do and performing sexual acts in front of them.I
think there is some deep-hidden sickness amongst these types who obsess about
Oren writes "It's a choice and not a good one"??When did you choose
straight? Further to that, do you suppose someone would ever subject themselves
voluntarily to the abuse, discrimination and hostility that must come with being
gay in the most narrow minded place in the nation by choosing to do so?
Utah County is the a joke.I love reading about the people there, I love
seeing the movies that unmask the truth about Utah County, it really is fun.Thanks again Utah County, you gave me something to laugh at, unfortunately you
are hurting other people with your hate laws and your false sense of
superiority.One thing is for sure, if there is a Jesus, he loves everyone,
even the gays. I know that's a news flash for all you LDS/Utah County people,
but it is true. I use to go to the LDS church, and they actually teach love,
there is just a huge disconnect with the teachings and what is practiced.Thanks for the laughs though.
Homosexuals have to be made to remain in the closet, there is no place for such
abnormal behavior in an open civilized society. Homosexuality like crime or any
other adverse social condition increases and spreads when not controled. In the
schools, like drugs, it is passed off as being cool. Too many young people are
getting off on the wrong foot because of gay influence.
I'm LDS, I don't mind people being Gay. I don't want Gay unions to be labeled
Marriage for my own reasons or my children to feel that Gay is normal/acceptable
as behavior in their youth at least, where I, being the parent, would have
influence over their future and growth.I can teach them that it is
wrong and the religious philosophy behind it. However, I would also teach that
everyone has the agency or will to decide for themselves what they will. I teach
that it is wrong in God's eyes but that it isn't my place to force my will on
others.So in this light understand that being LDS doesn't mean
hating Gays.(Utah is irrelevant, people on here REALLY need to travel more... It
does happen to be a national topic of debate)But there are some who
are LDS who are more extreme. There are some who are Gay who are extreme. I have
a friend who is gay and we get along fine. Why can't you people?Many
shout against my freedom to speech on this matter. They are wrong. There are two
sides. I'm getting along, I know some gays who do.
I believe that we, as a society, are confused about what is right & wrong! Read
& ponder the following -2 Timothy 3: 1-7 1 This know also, that in
the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of
their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to
parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers,
false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn
away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead
captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever
learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
My point is that I live with the acknowledgment that I believe as I do and so
does my neighbor. This meeting isn't intolerance. Teaching that same-gender
attraction is a social problem under certain views while acknowledging that the
others are free to think is not intolerance.This is called a
difference of opinion. Intolerance would be teaching children that no one has
the right to be Gay or that they don't have to respect someone who is Gay
because of the fact.Intolerance is stating to a person that
disagrees and goes their own way that they are in error and doesn't accept
their rights either.Just live and let live!
what exactly is the 'homosexual agenda?' and if such an agenda exists, then I am
really interested as to what part of elementary school curriculum it falls
under. Math? Science? Social Studies?
For all you people who are scared of the so-called "homosexual agenda," I
suggest you stay well away from its purveyors. You can start with
me. I suggest you keep a distance of at least 3 miles. Then we'll all be happy.
Anybody who wants to bring back the days of anti-gay brutality is
crazy and evil, and should be shunned. If you don't feel you need to
tolerate our existence on this planet, we won't feel any need to tolerate yours,
Can anyone suggest a valid argument against homosexuality that isn't based in
One of the not-so-talked about facts about Salt Lake City is its large gay
population. Second to San Francisco in fact.The gays I know are
respectable, law-abiding people and are absolutely no threat to me or my
children.In discussing the matter with my children, I could never in a
million years play God with them by suggesting I know how God must view gays. I
leave that for the conservative-types. I simply teach my children to accept and
love everyone, though different from you. But I am fortunate in that is how I
was raised. Others are not so lucky and now have biases, prejudices, fears and
even hatred towards these people even though they are not bothering them in any
way but being themselves.
Sorry MP, although I am very glad bible stories are important for you, if I
would focus on bible stories instead of following my own heart and trust in
myself regarding this matter, I would still believe in talking snakes in The
That these two Groups that Align themselves with each other are trying to
promote an Agenda of killing and rioting against people.I will let
you know that BYU has more Gay's than that of any other University in Utah. So, maybe the Church should step in here, and defend it's own
children.Homosexual kids? Kids make there own choices, they either
have that sort of attraction or they do not.Other peoples lifes
styles do not convert people to (that corner) or any other.If
anything, people (children) despise one life style over another.The
same gender attraction thing is just what it is.Until all of you
"holier than thou" people quit all your sins that are not publisized, you really
have no room to complain much.
to I follow y own heart: It is too bad you don't... Those Bible stories are
pretty crucial to understanding God, His Son, Jesus Christ and our place among
them... all good things to know.
You have no civilized society. I've seen it. I see it every day on
the news and in Your home.Ray, we will Make a Closet for you..
Because, that's exactly where you belong.
I AM GAY and i dont even know of this Gay agenda?? how can straight people? What happend to the SEPERATION of CHURCH and STATE? I want to get married YES
i said married to the same sex no way do i want to have an lds ceremony i just
want to be able to visit the one i love on his death bed if he is there or be
able to just own the same house and say we are happily married.
There is no 'homosexual agenda'. It is more like 'homophobia agenda', fear and
hate towards those who perhaps have those feelings and it is so frightening to
them, they create some imaginary conspiracy theory to wipe it off the face of
the earth, rather than look inwards and accept what is there. What is scary to
me, is that this low level conciousness still exists in 2008!
I am gay, and I graduated from American Fork High School. I know the principal
there, and I am glad that she decided to cancel this meeting, not because I have
some personal agenda, but because it just isn't the appropriate venue for such a
thing. Unfortunately, Belinda Jensen still chose to spread awareness of this
event using her PTSA contacts and her PTSA e-mail account, even after it was
canceled at the school. This is unethical no matter which side of the issue she
falls on.I can only imagine how the gay students at AF High feel
right now. They are represented by a person who is not working in their best
interest and feels that their identity is the result of some grand scheme to
corrupt society.This is the kind of thing that causes suicide and
drug use. Not the fact that the students are gay, but the fact that they are
pushed into ghettos and closets and made to feel that their schools, their
religions, even their own families want nothing to do with them.It
sounds like this man's presentation was nothing but generalizations and
stereotypes that have no grounding in reality.
Straight people who comment like they know what it is like to be gay amaze me.
I am a gay man. Do you think for one second I wouldn't change that. Do you
think I enjoyed being different from everyone I know. Having different feelings
than everyone else. If you think I made this choice you are nuts. I live a
normal life, i do not have nor transmit STDs and being intimate with a child is
the farthest thing from my mind. I would never wish this on anyone, let alone
try to influence a child.Quoting the bible is also ridiculous. The
Christian Bible is not some universal rule book. and even if it were Jesus'
greatest commandment given to man (after love the lord your god with all your
heart, soul & mind, is "Love thy neighbor as they self." There were no
qualifiers attached to this such as "unless they are gay, or black or poor or
As a student of AFHS I am ashamed to have Belinda Johnson as my PTA President,
and am also upset with community leaders. As a representitive of AFHS she
should be trying to make all the students feel accepted-not going around and
fixing the "gay problem." I am glad that Mrs. Merril canceled the
meeting. There has been over the past few years instances of violence against
homosexuals at AFHS. Things from graffiti on lockers, to broken noses to being
robbed. There are bigger "problems" in AFHS than homosexuality. Things
like teen pregnancy, drug abuse and suicide. AFHS has already experienced a
string of suicides this year, adding more hate and blind prejudice into the mix
will not be fixing any problem, (gay or otherwise) just creating more. Heavens
forbid we focus on the real problems. And don't even bring God into this
argument. Who is anyone to say that someone is right and someone is wrong.
Just because someone is a homosexual doesn't make them a bad person. You may
not agree with what they do, but teaching your children to hate and judge
blindly will not create a more "christ like world." It'll be just the
Homosexuality undermines the Family which is the central unit of society.
Reproduction is innate and purposeful. Homosexuals, not unlike many
heterosexuals cannot procreate; homosexuals, however, could never procreate,
even if desired. Does not this alone tell us something? Homosexuality is wrong
and goes against fundamental natural standards. Decisions need to consciously
and carefully be made that will further values that perpetuate the family
staying in tact. Homosexuality undermines the very foundations of a family unit,
and turn that which is right and appropriate into something and not used
What do people mean by saying there is no homosexual agenda? I am a male over 65
and grew up in New York City and its suburbs. From the time I was 5 years old I
was being approached by perverts with only one object in mind. They were older
teens who were sons of my parent's friends, they were boys in the schools, and
as I grew up they were older males who were in positions of authority over me.
In all that time of growing up, I was never propositioned for a heterosexual
relationship, only homosexual ones. It was disgusting. Homosexuals indeed have
a very nasty agenda and always have had.
"Homosexuality undermines the very foundations of a family unit, and turn that
which is right and appropriate into something and not used properly."How exactly does homosexuality undermine the family unit?Do you
honestly feel like your family is going to fall apart if they come in contact
with a gay person?
Care to justify your accusations?HOW does being gay "undermine" the
family?HOW does a small portion of the population not reproducing
constitute being wrong?All these homophobic "people" are just so
used to mindlessly repeating these talking points. They have never ONCE
Since you are obviously completely unaware, being gay is NOT the same thing as
being a pedophile. And many pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL.However,
the horror of pedophilia has nothing to do with the REAL gay "agenda" which is
about not wanting people butting their heads into the private lives of others.
People need to stop worrying so much over what other consenting adults do in the
privacy of their own bedroom. Its not like they make you watch or anything.
50 years ago, hate-mongers were saying the exact same things about blacks and
other minorities that people are now throwing at the gay community. It was the
hate-mongers who were wrong then and they're wrong now."Protect our
children from homosexuals""Don't let a black man date your
daughter"Same stuff, different target.
I love how people say we should not judge others and in the same sentence rip on
all of Utah County because of a meeting of 20 people. Ironic isn't
It's really hard to get past the fear of the unknown. It's really easy to fall
into trap of anecdotal evidence. And it would be really nice if we could find
new ground for this topic. Good arguments and strong sentiments have been laid
out now.I think we can all agree that people are generally afraid if
not repulsed by promiscuity, not so much orientation. And that it would be
easier if 100% of the population, like a tulip garden, lined up perfectly. But
around 5% of us are like the covalent bonds I remember learning in HS Chemistry
class - O2 (rather than NaCl) - we connect to one like our own. I
know for Mormons, the Proclamation (1995) was supposed to be the final answer.
But, it isn't - my hunch is that it will be amended one day (I didn't say thrown
out - just tweaked). Just like blacks and the priesthood.If Dick
Cheney and Dick Gephardt can handle all this, we can too. It's coming time for
all of us to move on. And live well. And learn Chinese. And have a production
of Rent staged regionally - so that we can learn.
Falling back on religious arguments, eh?Only God determines sin,
prosecutes, and sits in judgement. I do not, and neither do any of you. Makes
me wonder what the hidden agenda is of the religious right.
homosexuality doesn't undermine anything, because it has always existed, and
will continue to exist. Awful parenting, drug addiction, poverty, are all
serious issues that undermine the family and other important societal
structures. Two men or women looking to marry each other is not even on the
RADAR as far as I'm concerned when it comes to "problems" facing our society. It
goes back to blindedness that is rampant in american society. I had roomates
from norway who always laughed about americans. We gasp at the thought of movies
where two people are having sex, and make a big fuss about it and its morality,
yet we turn around and support movies where people's head's are being blown off
or people are turning into monsters and eating each other. Where's the logic???
Sex and love are where people turn for acceptance and closeness and it is what
creates cohesiveness in our society.. to deny that to any human being in our
society is simply ridiculous and goes against what you're trying to promote.
What do you wish for gay people? should they continue to be unwanted and
rejected.. only to turn to drug abuse and harmful destructive behavior? we
(by which is meant a married man and woman, who most likely will have and care
for a family as a natural product of their married relationship) is the basic
essential building block of a healthy society. It does not occur spontaneously
and requires nurturing and support from society. There are a great
many forces that by their nature tear down the family; adultery, prostitution,
premarital sex, drug and alcohol addiction, pornography, homosexuality; to name
a few. Society has a vested interest (tho it may not recognize it) to foster and
promote the family, and by extension, to not promote those destructive competing
influences. There is a huge financial cost to a family to raise
children (and ideally a family that dedicates one parent to be a caregiver and
not outside breadwinner) Society has recognized that by giving "family" benefits
to breadwinners. When you extend those benefits to everyone they are no longer
benefits. Not every family will be the ideal, but society must work to see that
as many have that opportunity as possible. WE ARE LOSING THAT BATTLE
as a society, as the posts here make clear.
I don't agree with same gender attraction, and no one can force anyone to agree
you said:"the REAL gay "agenda" which is about not wanting people
butting their heads into the private lives of others"GIVE ME A
BREAKHomosexuals thrust their "bedroom" behavior into society's face
by defining themselves and every aspect of their existence in terms of that
behavior.Homosexuals evidently have no idea how much society DOES"T
CARE and is SICK of being being BOMBARDED with every aspect of your tortured
personal agonies.Quit demanding that society (govt or employers)
$ubsidize YOUR PRIVATE CHOICESQuit demanding that society embrace
and affirm and legitimize YOUR PRIVATE CHOICESQuit sending people
into the public schools to indoctrinate our children with YOUR PRIVATE
CHOICESQuit blaming society if you feel depressed or suicidal about
YOUR PRIVATE CHOICESQuit expecting the world to ignore biological
and psychological realities to accommodate YOUR PRIVATE CHOICESplease reacquaint your self with the concept of PRIVATEyou are
like the obnoxious fan at the ball game with bare belly painted, huge wig,
screaming drunk for three hours his love for the home team. unfortunately this
game has been going on for decades.
Homosexuality is associated with depression and suicide? Well, that may be true
because meetings like this happen. But then again, look in your own back yard,
Utah. I have no doubt that homosexuality is part of who a person is, it is a
choice how you then live your life. I am for being informed and then translating
that into proper reasons for tolerance. Hopefully, we don't find Graham one day
in a bathroom stall in Minnesota or looking for crystal meth in Colorado
Springs, LOL. Oh yeah, and GO COUGARS! The season is right around the corner!
On Oprah the other day one of the guests was a wife of a polygamist marriage.
She made an interesting statement that with all the alternative lifestyles that
are accepted why not polygamy? Everyone wants there special interest
to be widely embraced regardless of how good, bad or ugly it may be.
that you could tap into the moral high ground of the Civil Rights Movement to
legitimize your lifestyle choices.It is obscene to equate the
struggles of a race to overcome slavery and discrimination with the desire to
justify aberrant personal behavior.I don't think many people will
To "dear: Re: annonymous 11:30" at 6:12 a.m. Apr. 2, 2008It's our
shared PUBLIC policy that makes gay people's lives difficult. It is the reason
gay people are making so much noise. You can yell all you want, but I for one
will not stop seeking equal rights on matters that pertain to having a family.
I doubt other gay people will stop either. You can object to the existence
of families headed by same-sex couples, as you have. But this is
America. I am pursuing happiness... and equality. I want to be able to adopt
with someone, or have a surrogacy contract that holds up in court. Legal
marriage would be nice. You may disapprove, just as I probably disapprove
about some aspects of how you are raising your own family.My life is
as PRIVATE as yours, but in the context of your presumed sexual orientation, you
have no legal limitations. I do. You're smoking crack if you think a full 1
out of 20 or so people are going to just roll over and enjoy these
I'm sick to my stomach and near tears over some of the things I'm reading here.
As a former resident of Utah County, and the mother of a gay son, who definitely
didn't "choose" his orientation, I'm disgusted by the hate and ignorance
expressed in some of these posts. I'm LDS, but on my way out, largely due to
the intolerance and hate-mongering subtly taught by the church. Christ's
church? What a joke. I thank god I'm out of Utah every day. You don't even
see how truly hateful you are being.Thank you to those who support
gays, their families, and gay rights. Although it's not a situation a parent
would normally choose for themselves or their children, I wouldn't change who my
son it, or watching him and develop into who he is for anything. Parents of
gays and lesbians want the same things for their children every parent wants -
happiness, success in life, and safety to be who they were born to be. That's
the agenda, the same as the heterosexual one. And that's bad why?
Homosexuals and gay life styles are just wrong no matter how you look at it. It
is naturally wrong, it is socially wrong, it is mentally wrong, it is
religiously wrong, it is wrong for the individual and it is wrong for the
community and the nation. If it is accepted into america mainstream it will
destroy our normal life style, our culture and our religious life and commitment
to a higher authority. We need to unite to protect our selves and our children
and future generations from this sickness.
I know the Savior taught us to love everyone, but I don't think he meant people
we don't agree with. It couldn't possibly mean people with a different sexual
orientation than me, or opposing political views. Also, I choose to disguise
this hatred as "protecting the children".
Bravo to ??...what you expressed is right. It all comes down to control of our
feelings and bodies. Don't blame the Lord...he had nothing to do with it...we
all have weaknesses and the end result is what we choose to do with them. It's
that simple. Don't make it something it is not.
Get real! You can't turn somebody gay.
This culture is fear-based and thrives on setting people apart. "We all like to
look alike, think alike, act alike ... no exceptions welcome."They
like to circle the wagons at the drop of a hat.It's the
persecution/Last Days syndrome that has been beaten into their heads since day
one.I have the utmost compassion for these people. It
certainly is not the way I would want to live my life.
Everyone is a child of God. Everyone is free to choose happiness or sadness.
Everyone has the potential for success in this life, regardless of their
circumstances. Everyone came into this world being born to a father and a
mother, who also have free agency to be a good or bad parent. Everyone has the
potential to be a mother or a father, even if adoption is necessary, but it is a
poor choice for any of us to try to compromise the right a child should have to
be raised by a father and a mother. Gays have all of these rights like anyone
else. Don't give up your potential of noble titles (father or mother). We must learn to have a love for all. People will make poor choices and
they will be unhappy for it. We still love them. But we can't make them happy
by condoning poor choices. Gays will never be happy with their lifestyle,
because by their choosing they have forfeited the rights of family as God
intended it. No one can be happy living in sin. So accepting others sins,
doesn't make them happier. There is no alternate way to be happy.
Homosexuality undermines the very foundations of a family unit..I actually feel that traditional families would BENEFIT by having the gay
population accepted and free to live their lives without fear of persecution
from friends, family and Church members. I know of a couple in my ward who were
married in the temple and had 4 children, before he came out to his wife. It
was very devastating to this family because divorce followed. This would have
never happened if this brother hadnt felt like he needed to overlook his
homosexuality to conform to Church and family expectations. I cant help but
wonder how many similar stories there are out there. I would much rather see
gays accepted and free to live a lifestyle that suits them , then feel that they
must fit the mold, pretend to be straight, and marry heterosexuals to be
accepted. It is the latter that will destroy families.
THE FAMILY | 5:46 a.m.Dave | 11:10 p.m.U have greater potential |
9:09 a.m. What more needs to be said?
My dearest Heterosexual hatemongers...Please, could you turn down the
volume? It seems to be interferring with my focus on refining my GAY AGENDA of
WORLD DOMINATOIN, here in my humble abode in the insignificant city of SALT LAKE
(in terms of the world at large, of course). Though, as I view the world you are
developing, quite sure you could easily have it all for yourself, filled with
hunger, the homeless and helpless, corruption, war, chaos, and deciet.. among
other delights. BTW - The Homosexual existence is not one of sadness and hatred,
it only seems to be a residual effect to your lack of acceptance and
understanding. Aferall, do we 'gays and lesbians' not see RAINBOWS amongst every
breathe? Now, go and replenish the earth as you are commanded by your dieties so
that the future generations of this fabulous planet of ours can see the reality
and vision of complete acceptance and LOVE, that you (well, the minority of you,
optimistically calculated) all seem to be unable to grasp :-)
On the Standard of Liberty website there is a page by Janice Graham that gets to
the point. Their son Drew is gay but they sent him to therapy and now he is
`fixed'. She wrote a book "My Darling from the Lions. Compelling journal
entries reveal a mothers life-changing spiritual journey paralleling her sons
stuggle with and success in overcoming pornography addiction and homosexual
Dear Personally, You accuse Mormons of pushing our religion onto other
people and recuriting them to our way of thinking. We are not the only religion
that does this. Most every Church has some sort of missionaries that are trying
to "recurit" people to our religion. We do not force our religion on anyone, or
at least we shouldn't. When we send missionaries out, we are just offering
people the chance to join our church, we are not forcing them, nor would we
ever. And not all the Mormons are intolerant as you seemed to think. I
have two gay friends and I accept them for who they are. It doesn't make a bit
of difference to me if they are gay, straight, bisexual, whatever. They're good
people and nothing else matters besides that.
Which True Standards do you refer? Did the True and living prophets over the
last 170 yrs tell you these True Standards? How do you know they are True? How
do you know that these True Standards are the only path to Happiness? Hasnt
history told you yet that your prophets make mistakes? Somehow in Mormondom,
what is unequivocally True only becomes some general authorities Opinion in the
hindsight of history.
To 10:54,I don't refer to you for true standards, that's for sure.
I didn't need to know the result of some study or to be told by parents,
friends, teachers or the media that at a certain age (as a heterosexual male) I
was extremely attracted to the opposite sex. That folks was not a choice in any
stretch of the imagination. And in the exact same way, the desire toward the
same sex comes from the same innate, uncoerced, biological drive. Same sex
attraction admittedly is not the norm so it scares some. The thought of a free
black person back in 1775 was not the norm either and the thought of it created
fear and had many turning to their bibles for proof that blacks were born to be
owned. People, use your common God-given sense. Nothing is more of an innate
biological response than sexual attraction. It is not something you turn on or
off or just choose on a whim or can even be influenced into. No amount of media,
pictures, personal insecurity, or peer influences could have suddenly made me
desire to be with the same sex. Turn off your dogma and turn on your brain
Quinns third law of liberalism. Hatespeech is anything that Liberals
disagree with or that is contrary to or does not support the liberal agenda.
So don't tell me how you feel. Tell me how I want you feel or else you
are just hateful. And because we abhorre sin does not mean we abhorre the
sinner.And to Kristen on her way out. I doubt you would be on your way
out because of others. There is nothing that another person in this world can
do if you continue to foster your testimony of the gospel. You alone are
letting it die. Please take responsibility for your own actions and don't blame
others. You know the other members are not perfect-just like you- so don't
think you can hold them to a higher standard than you hold yourself. This even
goes for your church leaders. They are just imperfect men called to postions of
authority (that are tempted even greater than you).
Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William GladstoneThe saddest thing about our conservative brothers and sisters is how
methodically and meticulously they caste their aspersions, judge their fellow
man, all the while pretending to be something they clearly are not - spiritually
worthy.Have compassion for these poor, judgemental fools.
It's funny to see how many homosexuals scream at the top of their voices how
persecuted they are, how fear is used to discriminate against them and how they
are called names....Have you stopped to read any of your own posts?
Some of them are the most hate-filled and vile postings I've ever seen. And
nope, after reading them I still wouldn't think about changing my stance that
homosexuality is wrong.Your plight is nowhere near the Civil Rights
Movement no matter how much you try to make it.Have you actually
watched your Gay Pride Parades? Disgusting, revolting behavior. You want to be
taken seriously then start acting a little more mature.And the
comments of How does my wanting a homosexual marriage or adoption affect my
marriage just make me laugh. No one ever said you affect my marriage. You affect
the family that God created with man and woman. That is the ideal. That is what
is expected of mankind. You don't like it, take it up with God. His word is
right there for you to read and understand. I don't buy your
argument. Society is falling apart because of the natural family breakdown.
The saddest thing about our liberal brothers and sisters is how methodically and
they cast their aspertions, judge their fellow man, all the while pretending to
be something they aren't - spiritually worthy.please have compassion
on these poor, judgmental fools.For proof of these comments, just
read this blog. Funny how it is the liberals, homosexuals who judge and name
call to those who disagree with their lifestyles. Yet they think they are
open-minded and inclusive...only when someone has the same mindset as them.
Kevin,Where do you get your stats that 1 in 20 is homosexual? It
never ceases to amaze how people will lie to make their case seem more important
and correct...As for the Proclamation being 'tweaked' in coming
years....silly thought my friend...just look at how that Proclamtion has become
reality. Even the elect will be deceived....Thanks to Isaiah who saw our
time...evil will be called good and good called evil.Truth is always
truth, not matter the circumstances. God doesn't lower His standards because we
humans aren't strong enough to live by them. We will get our just reward;
nothing more, nothing less. It's all about obedience, the my will or wants or
needs...but God's.As for loving my homosexual neighbor and
friend...always have, always will. doesn't mean I agree with their behavior.
I've had lesbians babysit my children. I have neighbors who commit adultery...I
still have BBQ's with them, but I don't agree with what they are doing. Support
her MS effort each year.It is you, the homosexuals, who can't love
the neighbor who doesn't agree with your behavior. It is YOU. Go look in the
mirror and see the hate you have for your neighbor!
yes compassion please 12:23 -This is an excellent but intensely sad
example of how the conservative mind works. By holding a mirror up
to themselves they see what they are, don't like it, and then like a magician's
slight-of-hand move, turn the whole issue around and project their
not-so-cleverly concealed personality quirks onto a different person, group,
etc. And of course, the word liberal (which has been thoroughly
denigrated from the original Websters definition to a Rush Limbaugh-type
political definition) is always in their someplace.These Rush
O'Hannity types are to be thanked, for they are bringing the American people
back together again for a much, much better world than exists now.
NameCalling: You can refuse to change your stance all you want. Gays can get
along quite well without your approval. In fact, I prefer it when
you people are outspokenly anti-gay; that makes it much easier to see the kind
of person you really are.I don't know where you got the idea that
gays are seeking your approval. You can disapprove until you're blue in the face
and tell us we're bad and stomp your feet all you like. No skin off our nose.
We only demand equal treatment under the law. You people
constantly claim that gays are a "threat to traditional marriage." Yet, you
admit your marriages aren't threatened by gays. How can that be?
It's irrational, like all homophobia is.
RangerGordon,You have equal treatment under the law.What
you want is special treatment, and exceptions to the law. True, you
are not a threat to traditional marriage, but only because we won't allow you to
redefine what marriage is, and the morals it stands on.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for
selfishness. -John Kenneth GalbraithThis description is quite
evident in the postings above. You can find morality police by the sackful in
Utah. What a sad bunch they are!
I think it should be pointed out that the gay community in this country bears
some responsibility for the lack of acceptance that they face in society. I
have nothing against homosexuality as a lifestyle; but even moderates like
myself tend to take a second look at supporting gay rights when I see outrageous
public displays at gay parades, rallys and other events. I dont dislike gays
and lesbians, but I do dislike open promiscuity and the distasteful behavior and
apparel exhibited publicly at these events. If the gay community is serious
about being accepted in mainstream society, they would find more support by
toning down the rhetoric, and demonstrating to the rest of the country that they
are no different from their heterosexual counterparts.
Irrational:If, as you've admitted, marriage equity doesn't harm
heterosexual marriage, then there is no compelling reason to treat us
differently under the law, and it's really not up to you to say whether or not
marriage law applies to gay families simply because we offend your questionable
ideas of who is moral and who isn't.It's up to the courts.
I was threatened for my life in my last year of HS by the so called Jesus
Followers, I love the LDS Church, its the followers i dont understand he
preached love and acceptance even among the adulturers and sinners. He also said
forgive them father for they know not what they do. And D&C 64:10 says I the
lord will forgive whom i will forgive but of you it is required to forgive all
men. Doesnt that also mean Love? RE:Kristen- Thank you for your
words they made me want to cry to know that there are at least some decent
people out there.What if god doesnt exist all these people saying
things in his name would just be proven wrong and gay people can have families
its called adoption and invetro fertilization, some of the best families are
from that.And a Gay agenda just makes me laugh i am gay and i dont
know anything of this sort besides wanting the same rights and not having to
worry. I pay my taxes like everyone else so why cant i have the same rights?
God is not full of hate like you hatemongers are. It will all come back to you
in another life.
Ranger, ranger, ranger:If you define marriage equity as everyone's
right to have a traditional marriage under the law, then yes I admit that
marriage equity does not harm marriage. Don't blame me or the
courts that you can't have all the privileges of marriage, including children.
We can't be responsible for the sadness you choose by denying yourself marriage
(Between a man and a woman) which is equally available to you.
Who is it that is hateful? Take a look at the posts on these message boards.Those who are against the gay agenda use the words: sinful, abomination,
immoral, degrading, harmful, perversion, bad, weakness, unhealthy, wrong,
consequences, contrary, alarming, unnatural, destructive, harmful, weird,
abnormal. These clearly describe someones ACTIONS.Those who are
pushing the gay agenda use the words: intolerant, judgmental, hypocritical,
homophobic, ignorant, close-minded, small-minded, hate-monger, hateful, fearful,
venomous, profane, angry, bigoted, loons, clown, yahoos, lies, spiteful,
discriminate, bible-thumpers, indecent, insecure, uneducated, utards, hostile,
simple-minded, narrow-minded, nosy, animosity, repressed, vicious, crazy, evil,
holier-than-thou, un-Christ like, irrational, zealot. These clearly attack the
PERSON.Now, please tell me - who is hateful?
to: God is not full of hate -How right you are! Conservatives embrace the wrathful-god notion. The God that is perpetually
angry and who sends people into everlasting hellfire - because HE loves them.
Conservatives LOVE that idea and try to be the same as their punitive Old
Testament God. Today's New Testament God is the complete
opposite.Open, caring, understanding, loving, not judgemental but
accepting. Quite liberal actually.The Old Testament variety of
people are in for a rude awakening when they pass on. Their conservative,
punitive and judgemental ways will catch up to them sooner or later. It's the
way it is.
It's an immoral society that is the problem and "gay" peoepl are part of it,
just like "the other" people. Do you have "urges" to be with he same gender???
Well I have "urges" to be with all the "other sex" I can. If we act on them, we
lose happiness. We are free to choose what we want to do, but we
are unable to determine the consequences. If you CHOOSE to live a gay life,
please don't ask to raise children. Evn if all your "body parts" work
correctly, you will never be able to cocieve a child....your choice, your
consequence. I'm not saying you are "bad"...its just your choice.All our morals could use some fixing!!!
Yes i do agree we can get married to the opposite sex if we choose to but you
cant get mad at us when we ruin a family when they find out we are attracted to
the same sex after having three kids. So which do you want to happen to society
the only way i see us ruining the name and values of "marraige" is if we are
forced to do it and tear the family apart. Where as if we could do it with out
the fear and the forcment then marriage still would have the same meaning- Two
people who really love eachother. Marriage after all was a government issued
certificate so it has nothing to do with religion only if you choose to have
your religion involved.
Irrational: What a condescending tone you've adopted. However, what makes you think gays can't have children? Lots of gays do. And
why do you think children in gay families are less deserving of their families'
legal recognition?I'm sure you'll come up with something, but the
fact remains it's just not up to you to say. The courts will rule in favor of
gay marriage one day. You're free to have your opinion--and you're
free not to marry someone of the same sex--but the rest of the world is under no
obligation to live according to your wishes.
RE: You're logic is still irrational Yes i do agree we can get married to
the opposite sex if we choose to but you cant get mad at us when we ruin a
family when they find out we are attracted to the same sex after having three
kids. So which do you want to happen to society the only way i see us ruining
the name and values of "marraige" is if we are forced to do it and tear the
family apart. Where as if we could do it with out the fear and the forcment
then marriage still would have the same meaning- Two people who really love
eachother. Marriage after all was a government issued certificate so it has
nothing to do with religion only if you choose to have your religion involved.
to: Ranger GordonYou are absolutly right!!!If Gay's are
a threat to traditional marriage, then why is it that the heterosexual divorce
rate is at over 50%? Seems heterosexual's are what is really a
threat to traditional marriage, and at a much more alarming (volume) rate.
Really, Christ said if you love me keep my commandments. What part of thou shalt
not commit adultery don't you understand? Fornication, same deal.I
believe is was Christ who said in Mark 10, "For this cause shall a man leave his
father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so
then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined
together, let not man put asunder."Sounds to me that Christ told men
to get married to a woman. As you would say, this is from your New Testament
Christ... There are many more in the New Testament if you need them....Homosexuality will never be acceptable behavior. Christ said so. I'm sorry you
can't deal with that very well, but that's just the way life is. We have choices
to make and get to reap the consequences of those choices.As for the
institution of marriage, it is being decimated because people can't follow the
counsel above. And yes, homosexuals want to redefine marriage to their own
liking. Sorry. As for rights, you have all the rights available to you in the
eyes of the law!
"Two people who really love each other?" is your new definition of marriage.
What?Sorry, even if gay unions were considered marriage by the
courts or whoever, it is still a poor substitution for the real thing. Why
don't you push for Gay unions to have equal rights as married persons, then you
wouldn't have to redefine marriage and the sanctity of that union.Keep blaming us for not giving you everything a traditional marriage would
(Joy in your posterity through gay union--inconceivable), but it is not our
fault your poor imitation of marriage will never measure up. We can't give you
the happiness of marriage you so desperately want, until you give up the sin
that can never truly replicate full happiness.
I have no problem if people don't want to support those who are homosexual, that
their right. However, I do have a problem if the information being distributed
is not current and not factual causing fear and really in the end
I know by the same way I know that the Book of Mormon is the word of God and
that Joseph was God's prophet of the restoration, that my homosexual sexual
orientation is God-given and that I am responsible to act just as morally in my
same-sex relationship as heterosexual couples sealed in the temple have always
been expected to act in their relationships. I know this and I know that God
knows it, as He is my witness.
Grandfather...so you are saying that God "made" you gay. It was not something
that you just allowed to grow? You know the parable of the good seed? Same
situation. Only instead of it being a "good seed" it was the opposite. Don't
you understand that you can nurture the "bad seed" also? Like another poster
said, I have desires like these for beautiful women. If you use the arugument
that you are only being who you truly are then I should leave my wife and kids
and go be with all those women. But there is a thing called temptation and
adversity that I must overcome. I am commanded by Christ (not the church) to be
with my wife only. I obey that commandment and try to follow his teachings on
how to prevent me from falling to those temptations. I know "God" did not make
you gay. He allows Satan to tempt you according to YOUR weaknesses and if you
succumb then you have proven yourself the unprofitable servant. He did not set
you up for failure. You failed on your own. He has given you everything short
of personal manafestations for you to succeed.
I have the utmost compassion for those who proclaim to be speaking for God but
are so full of hatred for those different than them they are actually speaking
for Satan and aren't even aware of it.
re: compassion always:Way to play the "hate" card. No way I could
have seen that one coming.
Why are mormons the most intolerant people I have every met. It is actually
funny. The comments on this mormon board illustrate the hate that the mormon
church teaches.Don't worry mormons, you are not alone, most religion
pretend to "love" but in reality they promote hate and war.I will continue
to ski and hike on sundays with my family, teaching love and equality. I
hope to see you all there!
When observing the modern liberal in verbal action ask a cogent relevant
question they almost always will:01. Refuse to answer yes or no02.
Get louder and talk faster or mock the questioner03. Point at other bad
behavior to excuse their bad behavior (this is in vogue now)04.
Topic-shift (often after being presented data on the current topic)05.
Start the victim litany06. Talk or write non-stop to prevent further
inquiry (a string of fact less assertions)07. Feign anger or surprise that
the questioner would stoop so low, etc08. Claim its personal or under
investigation so they cant comment09. State firmly that you dont
understand (aka you are stupid)10. Present a distracting joke to
trivialize the subject
And the neo-conservatives...they do what?
No, Anonymous, that is not what I was saying. Read and consider my whole message
and all of the embedded and implied scriptural references from all of holy writ.
Then you may get a more complete picture of what I am saying. -- May ye who have
eyes to see and ears to hear both see and hear.
RE: I Feel Sad for Counterfeiters Have you ever been in a homosexual
relationship? I doubt so, so how do you know its not the same feelings as a
Heterosexual Relationship, Who gives you the authority to state that it doesnt
deserve the same rights? Remeber to leave religion out of this because after all
the Seperation of Church and State should still be inforced, To bad its all that
your mind will think about. Love is Love it doesnt matter the gender god taught
of love to everyone not just the opposite gender right?
Sad to see some condescending attitudes here from purported followers of Christ.
How easily you condemn others as sinners, having never stepped in their
shoes.As an LDS member from abroad, living in Utah frequently
reminds me of living among the Pharisees. Having gospel truths, Jesus
instructed his followers to obey what the Pharisees taught, but he strongly
criticized "hypocritical Pharisees" and those who were "leaven" among them that
spoiled the whole group. Those Pharisees were so zealous for their oral
interpretations that they violated the letter of Torah Law. Many were so focused
on obedience and self-importance that they did not notice or care about the
needs of those around them-- a problem that still rears its head among Church
members today.As long as I live in a democratic nation, I will
exercise my right to free agency and refrain from condemning my neighbors the
right to exercise theirs. I must frequently remind myself that the Church for
me, will always be about how the Gospel enriches my own life, and not what the
members think or say. I am perfectly content to allow the Lord to sit in
judgment of us all, in the last days.
that is very special. thank you for sharing it.
I am afraid the Mormon church has dropped the ball.Their leaders seem to
have forgotten to tell the flock that our God is an unconditionally, loving
God.I think they are focusing on the Old Testament God who likes to throw
people into hell - because He loves them instead of the New Testament God.
There are about as many scientist or doctors left who think homosexuality is NOT
genetic as those left who still think the world was created in the past 6,000
actual calender years. And yet religious dogma and fear hang on far beyond all
rational logic and evidence. It took until 1974 until rational minds realized
the outdated, bigotted stance towards blacks in the LDS Church had to change.
The same change (ration cloaked as revelation for those who are still irrational
and need to believe God said so) will eventually come regarding the reality of
homosexuality and genetics. In the meantime, those who must be told what to
think rather than how to think will continue to believe homosexuality is a
perverse choice rather than a genetic disposition as natural as heterosexuality.
However - I do agree with some comments that the public flamboyency could be
turned down a notch (or three) in order for more to actually hear the message
rather than be distracted or turned off by the display. And I say that to my
very flamboyent gay friend all the time!
There is no debate here.As I have learned from experience, you can't
reason and rationalize with people who are unreasonable and irrational. Homosexuality is wrong on every plane and level. It's wrong
biologically, spiritually, socially, economically; it's an unhealthy high risk
lifestyle. There is no doubting these facts. With that said, there will always
be people who justify it--- and they are irrational.
The law of Natural Selection which applies to all living things puts forth the
selfish gene theory- that is: genes fight to get passed on to the next
generation (survival). Through reproduction, your genes get passed to your
offspring. Only the strong genes, or better said, the genes which promote a
healthy species and survival of the offspring of the next generation are the
genes which survive and propagate themselves through successive generations. It
is a fundamental tenant of of evolution- only the strong genes survive- how
does a homosexual gene fit into this law? That's what I thought, it doesn't.
Learn, my children.. The homosexual gene, if there were such a thing would not
make it into the next generation of offspring and therefore natural selection
(or nature) would naturally eliminate that gene. As animals evolve, the genes
which promote the strength and survival of the species are naturally selected.
Homosexuality is in direct conflict with natural selection- which I believe was
a liberal scientific theory. Hmmmmm.
I am sure homosexuality is "wrong" to you Holmes.I was raised with a
live-and-let-live life philosophy and quite secure with my sexuality. I am afraid those who freak out at what complete strangers do in the privacy
of their own homes may be trying to hide something they are afraid to face.
To my fellow church members - way to continue portraying the negativity of the
church. Congratulations, you have successfully supported their beliefs about
the intolerance and general stupidity of members of the church. It would be
nice if they were given the opportunity to hear what is actually preached by the
heads of the church, which are in fact love-filled messages, but why should they
bother? You've already proven to them that regardless of the messages preached,
the congregations aren't listening.It's not our place to make laws
restricting the rights of others to choose one lifestyle or another. The
purpose of law is to protect one person from another. As homosexuals aren't
doing anything to 'harm' another, that is outside the bounds of law. If you're
worried the family is collapsing, and I agree that it is, you'd better rush back
home to help build your family up. You have every right to teach your children
what you believe. Leave it at that.
Wrong answer...We don't live in a vacuum- everything a person does
affects everyone else. That's why we have laws. You say it does no harm. Yet,
the social costs, health care costs, etc. are ever increasing and who pays those
costs? It's hard to "build up my own family" when the money that I could spend
on my own children goes toward the cost in tax dollars and increased health care
premiums and social programs associated with so called "alternative lifestyles."
You have no right to ask me to esentially subsidize immorality when I could use
that money to "build up my family." Everything has an effect on everything else.
The financial costs to any one individual may be small, but one dollar can't be
in two places at once. I want that dollar to "build up my family" since I am a
breeder an proud of it. Thank you, next.....
Paul, and all those who think variations in sexual orientation cannot have any
association with gene function, consider there a number of genetic disorders
that result in crippling disabilities and/or death very early in life. E.g.
Duchenne muscular dystrohpy. Bisexuals could also be responsible for passing
on whatever gene or genes. What's the phenotype anyway? There
seem to be several states of sexual orientation. The onset of variations of
sexual orientation could primarily happen at puberty, and may be a function
exogenous factors.Lastly, sexual orientation variations don't have
to be genetic to be rooting in biology. So, please. Think before
The real debate seems to be about free agency and rights: As for
free agency:Anyone who can have sex, can freely choose to have gay
sex, even if it is a sin. We are all free to sin. As
for rights:Marriage is between a man and a woman. So whether you
are a man or a woman you already have the right to get married. You just don't
have the right to redefine marriage--and diminish what marriage is.Conclusion:The guilty take the truth to be hard, but the truth
shall set you free. No one does us any favors by letting us wallow in sin.
Happiness will never be found in Satan's imitations, no matter how close the
mirage. The freedoms and rights to gain full happiness are already available to
all; It is sad when we don't choose to take it.
Those who simply cannot get beyond this issue are not secure with their own
sexuality and probably would be much better off trying to find out why this is.
As a lesbian mother of 3, and a woman with a real and personal relationship with
the Lord, I thank all of you who are able to approach this issue with a thinking
mind and a loving heart.To those of you who disagree with me, my
lifestyle, and my family - you have every right to believe the way you believe
and live the way you choose to live, please allow me the same. The ONLY One who
knows all, will be my final judge -and yours. Peace to all of you.
Amazing how many people on here serve God as an adviser. Some of the things you
quote him as saying, not saying, doing, not doing can't all be true as they're
polar opposites. I think he he referred to you when he said "I know
Why are people so afraid of homosexuals. Are you afraid that they are going to
break into your home and redecorate? Why the homophobia. When I was single I was
like "more women for me." As a married man with children, I do not fear a
homsexual running off with my wife. I do fear the pedophile but there is a
difference between pedophile. I would not encourage my child into that lifestyle
it is a hard one, as society does not accept it. I always have felt that people
who are homophobic have homosexual tendancies that they are scared of. I am
Mormon, however I love my children so much that as adults if they were to choose
that lifestyle I would still love them the same. I truly believe Heavenly father
loves them the same way I love my children. It is not your call to judge. Leave
it in Heavenly Fathers hands.
To Mom of 3...Christ has already spoken on this issue. You are just choosing to
ignore it. We all are sinners so that is nothing new. We all choose commandments
we obey and willfully and unwillfully, disobey others. We just don't get to
choose the consequence. Go read Mark 10 about Christ's words on marriage. Rulan...maybe you could expand a little bit on your observations? It
would be helpful if you listed the contradictions of Christ's words so we know
what you are referring to. It's just helpful in the discussion.Anonymous as usual gets the debate wrong. The debate isn't that anyone is
"afraid" of homosexuals. The debate is whether or not the behavior is right or
wrong. I really don't care if you are Mormon or not, because it has nothing to
do with the debate either.According to scripture, the behavior is
wrong and should be turned away from. Also, if you are a parent, then you will
understand that one can love their children very much and not agree with or
approve of their child's behavior.Sure, there are people who hate
homosexuals just like there are people who hate (fill in the blank)
Continued.... It is not possible to love the individual and not approve of the
person's behavior? Sure it is. You make that judgment everyday.You
say a lifestyle that society doesn't accept. I'd say it's a behavior that Christ
doesn't accept and has told us not to embrace. I always find it interesting how
people can completely distance themselves from scripture that doesn't coincide
with their own mortal thinking.However, Christ told us that His ways
are higher than ours and His thoughts are greater than ours.The rest
of your post is ridiculous and without merit or foundation. In actuality it is
just plain stupid.Heavenly Father loves everyone, that's why you are
on this earth. However, He doesn't like it when His children disobey His
commandments.It is our responsibility to make judgments everyday. To
say otherwise is showing a lack of knowledge about scripture and life. If your
neighbor is a known killer of young children, would you allow your child to go
play at their house? Of course not. But why are you judging him?Homosexuality is a behavior that is not congruent with the teachings of
Christ. Plain and simple. Live them or not!
Amen, amen, amen!!!Marriage is not going to redefined just because a
few people want it to be so it goes along with their way of life. Amen about the guilty taketh the truth to be hard. Anyone with half a brain
should realize and use their common sense that it's a man and woman who make a
family and have kids...there is just no other possible way. Period.Personally, I think all gays should move to an island and they can make their
own laws and we no longer have to worry about our kids watching such wayward
ways of life.
You contradict your self.You say,The debate isn't that anyone
is "afraid" of homosexuals. The debate is whether or not the behavior is right
or wrong. I really don't care if you are Mormon or not, because it has nothing
to do with the debate either.But later on you state that,According to scripture, the behavior is wrong and should be turned away from.
So isnt scripture part of a religion and isnt mormonism a religion
so you really dont make yourself clear on that. Religion shouldnt have any
saying on this what if god didnt even exist or have anything to do on this
matter where would you be then? And if your so religious how can you judge
someone when you know that god and jesus are the only ones who can.How will we redefine the meaning of marriage the concept of marriage is two
people who are in love. And marriage has already been killed by people who get
married for 56 hours then get a divorce so how can we destroy it by letting two
people who are in love show it?
I am a member of the religious majority here but I could care less what the gays
are doing in their personal lives. They are not affecting my family or my family
values. When my kids grandmother went through a "gay phase" a few years back all
I needed to know is that she is a good woman and she loves my kids.
Sorry for the confusion. To answer your question, I'd be right where I am now.
Why?"For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he
may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every
thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent
forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect
knowledge it is of God."Each of us knows what is right and wrong so
choose accordingly.However, their is a God, always has been, always
will be. I hope you learn more of God's word and follow it and understand it.The way has been set forth by God. It's there for you to follow and be a
part of...plain, simple, easy to understand. None of the arguments mean anything
because they are contrary to the word of God. And anything contrary to the will
of God is against God. We can't serve 2 masters.... right?
I am LDS and Gay and i know God still loves me no matter what happens. The word
of god has been changed and made impure by man. Through out the ages of time
the bible has been translated into different languages and by different people.
If we were to follow the word of god, people would be stoned out in the street.
The world would be different than it would today. Times change for a
reason. There is always a solution to problems to, IE: over popluation of the
world, it might not be in the bible of how god planned the solution but it is
meant to be by god because back then there wasnt as many people on the earth as
there are today.And how do you know what god is thinking today he has not
released a current version of the bible within the last 2000 years has he?
You are absolutely correct; God does love you. I certainly have never said that
He doesn't. I will say that if you are acting on your homosexual behavioral
urges, then He is very disappointed in your choice to sin. Just as He is when I
make a choice to sin; whatever it is.Thou shalt not commit
adultery/fornication.Leave mother and father and cleave unto thy
wife.I have studied tremendously the origins of the New Testament. I
could refer numerous books and scholarly papers for you to read.That
still doesn't give you or me an excuse to ignore the commandments. If you are
LDS, then surely you've read the same commandments in the Book of Mormon and
Doctrine and Covenants.YOu want a current version of the Bible?
Well, listen to conference this weekend. Tell me what His prophet and apostles
tell us. Go read all that has been said about fidelity.There is not
such thing as over population. It is a lie spread by selfish people who don't
understand the plan of happiness created by God. There is no
justification for sin; we truly deceive ourselves with self-justification.
Christ will tell us you should've obeyed.
With the Romney campaign, I was shocked at the level of religous intolerance
toward LDS people. After reading these blogs I can see that we are as intolerant
of others as others are to us. Christ said, "I the Lord will forgive whom I will
forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men." I don't see an appendage
to that saying (except homosexuals.) LDS people are getting back exactly what
they are putting out. Love God and your fellow men (gay or straight again, not
mentioned.) I have known plenty of LDS guys when in the singles ward that I know
were gay. I felt so sorry for them because they seemed so self critical, please
have some compassion and stop beating them up. They do a better job of that
A quick perusal of these posts might indicate that there are some Mormons that
love God and hate everybody else.
I wish people would start remembering that it is not our job to judge others.
You don't have to accept sin but it's God's job to judge, not ours.
Point out who is judging please....
"Gay 'agenda' targeted" should be enough to indicate there is some serious
judgement going on.
I sure wish we all could be as righteous and virtuous as you. You are the beacon
of knowledge and compassion. Your example each day on these pages lets us all
know that you have never, ever judged anyone for doing anything.I
only wish that I could live up to your wonderful example of uplifting words and
comments each day.Let us all follow Anonymous and his fantastic lead
in all we do each day. Thanks for showing us how to live our lives each day and
do things for those with whom we don't agree on behavior.If you have
children, I bet they are perfect and you have never corrected them in their
behavior. I'd sure love to interview them to see how they were able to go
through your home without being taught the virtue of living a moral and obedient
life. Again, thanks for your example each day in uplifting comments
and without judging those with whom you disagree.
Ha ha, that's so funny. You don't even know that Anonymous 4:22 is a different
person than Anonymous 7:25. I have children and am bringing them up in the
teachings of the Dominant Utah church. I remember studying the scriptures and
reading something about how God can judge us but we can't judge others. And oh
my gosh! How dare you judge my children! What are they doing right this second?
They are spending a Saturday afternoon in the art room coloring with magic
markers together and planning a birthday party for their stuffed animals.
Immoral stuff indeed. I don't even let them watch pg movies unless I know they
are clean. But I'm not going to teach them to judge others. I wasn't raised in
the Church and I have gay relatives so I need to approach people who don't
believe the same as I with kindness and compassion.
Judging people is purely a neocon thing.It makes people feel oh, so much
better to pass judgement on others.Makes them forget about the war. Makes
them forget about the economy. Makes them forget about their ideology that got
us into the divisive mess we are in today to begin with.But, (as they like
to brag) Right is right! So don't disagree with them and everything will be just
Conservatives are judgemental and adore punishment.Progressives believe in
live-and-let-live.Which ideology do you think will overcome the
You sound like you are someone that believes everything the Bible says. Do you
have slaves? Do you have sacrifices? Do you consider women as second class
citizens? I doubt it.Bible believing people need to learn the difference
between lifesyles thousands of years ago and ours. Of course their books are
going to sound different! But religions pick and choose what is appropriate for
them. Unfortunately, many people choose discrimination of gay people because
what they don't understand threatens them.
To the mom who is raising her children in the LDS faith... good for you. I
didn't judge your children, you are. You are supposedly teaching them that there
is right and wrong. So you are teaching them to judge. If you aren't teaching
them that, then you aren't teaching them the LDS gospel. To
Anon....what can anyone say. Your comments are always just silly and ridiculous.
The venom that comes from your words is incredible. What you say? Have you ever
read your judging of those conservatives who post here? Yep, you are
judging...nice work my friend.As for which ideology will overcome,
it will be the one that most closely resembles the teachings of Christ and that
is one where right and wrong is taught and wrong is to be avoided. So you make
the decision. If you actually knew your own liberal platform you'd
know that liberals are the most judgmental people around. They love to put
everyone in a class so 'they' in their infinite wisdom can come to the
rescue.Hillary thinks you are an idiot. That's why she want's your
money to do with it what she wants. Your ignorance is astounding...