I hope the legislature looks compassionately at every bill they pass, not just
the ones on illegal immigrants. As said in the article the Church takes no
stand. I home the lawmakers enforce the laws, and do not take this as an
endorsement for allowing status quo. Something needs to be done, and eliminating
their ability to work is the sensible solution. But it should be done in a way
that they can return to their homeland unless they have violated the law.
Kinda sad that Mormons have to be reminded to be compassionate and look and
illegal immigrants as God's children, just like every other human is. What do
Mormons teach in their Sunday School? (I suppose you can teach whatever you want
but that doesn't mean Mormons learn or follow their teachings). I thought
Mormons were Christians? Why the need for constant reminders that all humanity
is God's children - that's bread and butter gospel, but seems like the members
just don't get it.
Dear Country:At last, someone is making sense in the issue of
immigration. Thank you Elder Marlin K. Jensen (LDS). Thank you Bishop John C. Wester (Catholic). And, Thank you Pastor
Steven Klemz (Evangelical) for all your support and positive comments towards a
comprehensive immigration reform.I am also a Pastor and I too am in
favor that our government pass a law that would benefit the millions of
undocumented people in the United States of America. This is the reason why THE
LORD has blessed this nation. The love and compassion towards our neighbor.We need to remember that THE LORD GOD of JACOB, THE GOD OF ISRAEL and
THE GOD OF THIS COUNTRY made the earth for us human being. But, because of our
hard heart we have made borders. Let's be a blessing to those in need, so that
GOD may bless more our nation and not only bless us, but PROTECT US from those
who wants to damage the United States of America.Sincerely,J. Carlos B.
I commend the LDS, BUT:Should not those that ask others to give
compassion give it themselves?Of the many faithful ,legal immigrants
that are sick, seperated from their families, hungry, or poor that are legally
waiting to come to the USA are extended compassion? That those illegally here
should receive it?.How many LDS Chapels are being used to feed,
house or care for these , either here in USA or 3rd world countries?. The Church teaches its members to work toward an eternal Family. Families
spend great wealth towards that end and do great work for the dead. But families
do nothing for the living poor, hungry or sick among its own membership in 3rd
world countries. let alone reach out to those outside its own to give this
Christ like love, charity or compassion.Where is the guidance given
its membership to reach out and take in a poor family, someone sick or hungry
into their home, or to sponsor the poor of other countries in their repective
locations through their own branches , wards, or stakes?. Rather then ask a
State law maker to have compassion , Maybe the LDS Church could begin at home?
I do feel compassion, but I want people who enter our country illegally to go
back and return following US immigration law and regulation. We are a
law-abiding country and it will always stick in the craw of Americans to watch
people flaunt the law and begin their lives in America after having gotten in
by, basically, cheating the system and disadvantaging all the people who are
trying to follow the law and not circumvent the system.
Two comments. I hope they have compassion also for the workers who reside in the
State legally, and for the 12-20 million people dealing with identity theft, so
people illegally in the United States can work. Illegal aliens are
not immigrants. Immigrants come legally to this country, following the
immigration laws. Many wait for years and years. My forefathers came here after
almost a decade of waiting.
This compassion for the illegal Mexicans the chruch speaks of is what has been
and continues to destroy America and the Unity of the American people. These
illegal aliens and foreign natiionals are preying on this compassion and using
it against the American people. The time has come to throw compassion out the
window for the illegals and put the american people and our country first, have
compassion for the americans that have and are victimized by these illegals.
Have compassion for the Americans losing their jobs and job security to these
illegls. Have compassion for our governement and social programs that are
supposed help the poor americans. Compassion for the illegals ends at the
Mexican border and the time to serve the american people and protect our rights
to have the american dream. The illegals, all 23+ million of them, have served
their purpose and now it's time to rid this country of them. The will of the
american people to have dreams of success has been crippled and destroyed. The
abundence of illegal labor for business has systematically destroyed any hopes
of the american workers and now it's time to take the illegals off the pork of
i wonder if the same people that are so pro illegal immigration, have had their
pay cut by half over the last few years and when they do hold out for a living
wage only to watch their taxes go up and up to subsidize the employer who is
giving our jobs to people who are here illegaly, after all someone has to pay
for all the freebees, like housing,free medical, wick, free lunch at school,
heat , and many other programs, while watching crime follow closly behind. so
when you hear so many people talk about how we NEED the illegals hear , ask
yourself , DO WE ?
Let's fix that typo:It's meant to say, "Have compassion for
Not taking a position? Are you kidding me? It is obvious that religious
leaders are taking a position in favor of illegal aliens. Oh well, I guess I
will continue to follow the advice my church leaders give me and honnor and obey
the law. No double standard here that I can see.
It's also KINDA SAD that mormons know so little of their own history that they
have no clue that their ancestors were once the same thing.Only, THEIR
ancestors fled to Mexico because their practices were not allowed by the
'promised land' "set up so that they could be founded".
Elder Jensen can't possibly mean what he said about taking a "factual" approach
to the problem. That would certainly not lead to more compassion. We have
compassion fatigue because we see the problem growing. And his comment about
getting to know an illegal alien is absurd on the face of it. When we hold home
evenings at the prison, we love the felons. We forgive them for what they did.
BUT WE DON'T LET THEM GO AND PRETEND THERE WAS NO CRIME. Do the Brethren
realize that is their message? Will I be excommunicated for my stand against
Elder Jensen -At what point do we stop showing compassion for Gadianton
robbers? Either you support rule of law or you ignore it. You can't choose the
laws you want to obey and the ones you want to completely disobey - there are
consequences. I support legal immigration 100%. It's illegal immigration I
"Meet an undocumented person," he said. "Come to know their family."Not a good idea, they might sell your information to a relative living in
another part of the country, and you'll end up trying to fix your credit once
they use your identity.
Utah's new immigration measures come straight from Apartheid South Africa's
book. Now there's a state to emulate.
Once again, the church is sticking its nose into legislative business. How about
the separation rule when it comes to law making and religious influence.I
hope the laws get passed and we can start taking control of the illegal
immigrant situation. They are breaking our laws and I have no compassion for any
law breaker. Round them up and send them home. Church leaders should keep to
their business of running their church, not the government.
Which side of the mouth is the church talking from today? We don't generally
take a stand on legislative issues - except alcohol and immigrants. AlcoPop's
are legal and we think they shouldn't be and immigrants are illegal and we want
them to be legal. I am getting dizzy in the winds of change. Should
we be excepting a rewrite of the Articles of Faith soon to suit the needs and
will of the church - "We believe in not being subject to kings, presidents,
rulers, and magistrates, in disobeying , dishonoring, and opposing the law".
It is time for the churches to practice what they preach. Let the churches suck
it up and pay the price for being compassionate. Not the general public. I am
LDS and I hold to my belief, however let the different religions take up the
call and provide the expenses for medical care, WIC, free school lunches and the
many other programs that are handed out to the illegals. In this way I can
decide for myself wether to pay my tith and support my beliefs or not. Not
expect the citizens of this community or any other community to carry this
unlawful burdon. I know may illegals due to my employment and the majority are
very hard workers. BUT THE LAW IS THE LAW. Is it not what religions teach, to
follow and obey the laws of the land??? Let the immigrants come to this country
Elder Jensen, what part of obeying the law of the land do you not understand?
Illegal immigration is not the same as legal immigration.
The ICE Officer can show compassion as he assists the illegal's onto the bus and
again show compassion as he assists the illegal's off the bus into the country
from whence they came.The 12th Article of Faith of the LDS church says
that we believe in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law. We are fed
up with the increased crime and other costs associated with the illegal's that
are flowing into this country. This must cease. The Federal legislators have
refused to take a serious stand and stop this insanity so it has become
necessary for State legislators to do so. I hope that our legislators will not
buckle to the comments by Bro. Jensen. I have had nothing but the highest
respect for Bro. Jensen in the past but we part ways on this issue.
"The illegals, all 23+ million of them, have served their purpose and now it's
time to rid this country of them. The will of the american people to have dreams
of success has been crippled and destroyed. The abundence of illegal labor for
business has systematically destroyed any hopes of the american workers and now
it's time to take the illegals off the pork of government."Served
their purpose?! How is it possible to take such a crass view of human life? I
see that this country's culture of life only extends so far... Sad.Somos hermanos -- get over it.
Just wait for all the devout Mormons to disavow Elder Jensen's words, make
justifications for their policy stance, make an excuse or find reasons to not be
compassionate. You'll hear them trot out the old "obeying the laws of the land"
but they ignore the weightier matters of the law like mercy.Seven
out of the first fifteen comments have already dismissed/discredited Elder
Good to hear a little sanity in this - Thanks Elder Jensen.People,
it's easy to label them as illegal and treat them like dogs but they are people.
The biggest problem is that's it is near impossible to come to the US legally. I
have friends who have married people internationally and they new spouses aren't
allowed inside the country. It can be a year. The US really needs to get on top
of things. Until then, have some compassion for goodness sakes.
All I know about illegal immigration is that if I were in the position that most
undocumented workers were in, I would also cross the border illegally and work
here as long as I could. I would do whatever it took to build a better life for
my family. I am all for immigration reform, but the vitriolic response that
these people are sneaky, law-breaking low-downs who deserve to be tossed out of
the country for cutting in line is ridiculous.
Elder Jensen and the other clergy need to come to California and see what the
ILLEGAL immigrants have done to the state. I welcome all LEGAL immigrants who
come here and follow our laws. The whole premise of being here ILLEGALLY is that
they broke the law to get here and continue to break the law every day they
remain.We have high crime, lower standard of living and cna't get
emergency rooms help because they flood them for the free medical care. Try
waiting for 6 to 8 hours for medical help some day.
I also hope that we consider that thousands upon thousands of sex offenders and
drug dealers are crossing our borders also. Potentially, terrorists could be
crossing also. Also, I am looking for a second job to pay for medical bills
since my insurance forces me to pay 20%. I wonder how many illegals have
received FREE health care - and yet I have to work two jobs to cover my family.
I do not support mass deportation of illegal immigrants. But I do support the
Constitutional right of protecting our borders - and I do not think it to be
inhumane to do so. Also, I support giving fines to employers who knowingly hire
illegal immigrants. And I do not feel it to be non-compassionate to illegal
immigrants to do so. The bad thing about this statement is that it will be
over-interpreted and given to private interpretation. Elder Jensen said nothing
about protecting the border or not, nothing about what employers should do, etc.
Thus, in reality I support Elder Jensen's statement - I just think that there
are more compassionate ways of dealing with the issue which I already mentioned.
This is how our Government is working for us; The United States Senate voted to
extend Social Security Benefits to Illegal Aliens beginning in 2008. Now, the
following are the senators who voted to give illegal aliens Social Security
benefits. Alaska: Stevens (R) Arizona : McCain (R)
Arkansas : Lincoln (D) Pryor (D) California : Boxer (D) Feinstein (D) Colorado : Salazar (D) Connecticut : Dodd (D) Lieberman (D)
Delaware : Biden (D) Carper (D) Florida : Martinez (R) Hawaii :
Akaka (D) Inouye (D) Illinois : Durbin (D) Indiana : Bayh (D) Lugar
(R) Iowa : Harkin (D) Kansas : Brownback (R) Lou isiana :
Landrieu (D) Maryland : Mikulski (D) Sarbanes (D) Massachusetts :
Kennedy (D) Kerry (D) Montana : Baucus (D) Nebraska : Hagel (R) Nevada : Reid (D) New Jersey : Lautenberg (D) Menendez (D) New
Mexico : Bingaman (D) New York : Clinton (D) Schumer (D) North
Dakota : Dorgan (D) Ohio : DeWine (R) Voinovich(R) Oregon : Wyden
(D) Pennsylvania : Specter (R) Rhode Island : Chafee (R) Reed (D) South Carolina : Graham (R) Vermont : Jeffords (I) Leahy (D)
Washington : Cantwell (D) Murray (D) Wisconsin : Feingold (D) Kohl (D
It is sad to hear such crass comments against what Elder Jensen said. But
unfortunately we are reaping what we sow. For years, Mormon leaders,
politicians, etc. have stood on the sidelines of important moral issues, afraid
or ambivalent about what position to take. Now, as they come to undertake their
great responsibility as followers of Christ, they find that many in their flock
do not care to follow. For years, many of us Latter-day Saints implored our
leaders to speak out and to change the attitude of society and of our own. For
years we were ignored. Now that the Church is doing the right thing, it is so
much harder because so many of our people have developed a harsh, uncaring
attitude for those who suffer. I hope now that the Church will not be
intimidated by such violent reaction and continue to actively speak out against
the harshness of the Utah Legislature. It is the only moral thing to do.
You must have cut a pretty dashing figure in the 1960s when you forced that
blatant lawbreaker Rosa Parks from her seat on the bus.
My religion teaches to honor and obey the rule of the land. Therefore I support
legal immigration. Having traveled and worked all over the world I am aware
that there are more people wanting to immigrate to the USA than we can
accomodate. Thus we have quotas to control the number that can immigrate. I
have compassion for the Filipino, who at this moment is standing in a long long
line in front of the embassy in Manila, in the hot sun, seeking his life long
dream to immigrate to the USA and upon submitting his papers is told that he
will be approved in 12-15 years. His grandfather fought with the Americans on
Bataan and never received recognition or the renumeration that was promised to
him. Still he will wait it out and come legally, bringing perfect English, a
college diploma and a desire to be an American Citizen. How about some
compassion for him and others like him and less for the ones who break into our
coutry and demand their rights and burn our flag????
The 12th A of F says We believe in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law.
ILLEGALS are not doing this, hence the word illegal. Wake up Bro. Jensen, they
are a cancer to our economy and country.
Is the LDS Church encouraging illegal immigration? I must admit, it sounds like
it. Last year Lou Dobbs criticized the LDS Church for encouraging illegal
immigration. The Church and the Deseret News complained he was being unfair and
the Church didn't encourage illegal immigration. Now we are being told to have
"compassion" and to do nothing to discourage illegal immigration. Am I missing
something here? Does the Church support illegal immigration or not? If so, what
other laws can also be ignored by Church members (and others for that matter)?
"Compassion" is a warm fuzzy word that doesn't deal with the problem very well.
Illegal immigration is illegal and wrong. It's time the legislature did
something about it and society's leaders at all levels recognize the "people"
are sick of illegal immigration!
Its pretty sad when you enter an LDS temple and see people in there who have
broken the law by illegal immigration, identity theft, etc. (I know this as a
fact because they are members in my stake), yet a man who drinks a cup of coffee
is barred from entering. Which is the greater sin??? If the LDS church wants to
change the 13th article of faith, maybe they should also look at some of the
other rules, so that we don't come across as looking "stupid" when you really
think about it.
Once again the Republicans legislatve majority and one Democrat on the Hill have
shown their true colors. I want to thank the handful of Republicans and all but
one Democrat for voting against this law. You are the true
followers of Christ's message of "love one another...", you are the true
humanitarians, and I promise that I will be voting for more Democrats to help
bring back respect and dignity to our State House and Senate.Please
forgive me for not opening my eyes sooner.
Does the LDS church show any compassion to those of us who have had our social
security numbers usurped by ILLEGAL aliens? Does it take care of debts incurred
and crimes committed in our names? Does it straighten out our credit for us?Compassion should first go to the law abiding CITIZEN and then to the
alien who broke the law to get here.
So we are accused of inviting illegal immigration? That may be true, but if so
are we stuck with them forever? When your house party is filled with party
crashers do you not have the right to call the police to remove them? The
Catholic and LDS churches wish to continue to enable a bad situation for the
rest of the citizens. Illegal immigration is not a "moral issue" it is a
political, ethnocentric, cheap labor issue.Enablers always use
compassion, sympathy, and love to justify their continued enabling of the
addict, and Utah is addicted to cheap labor and increasing the number of
consumers to buy stuff. Illegal immigration is immigration anarchy, and very
short sighted economic policy. The Utah legislature has every "moral" right to
act in defense of the taxpayers. In fact it would be immoral to act in favor of
the Church and not the taxpayers since the taxpayer are paying the bill for
illegal immigrants.By the way has the LDS Church rescinded that
pesky 12th Article of Faith?
Before my fellow LDS members find fault in Elder Jensen, they should read
other parts of his talk quoted in the other local paper: "While repeating the
mantra that the LDS church generally takes no position on political issues,
Jensen noted that immigration was not strictly a political issue but a moral and
ethical one. And as such, he said, he was not simply speaking for himself or
even for the Quorum, a group of Mormon leaders who act as church emissaries. "I was assigned to come here by the First Presidency of the church," he
said, referring to the church's three most senior leaders, including LDS Church
President Thomas S. Monson." So, while you honor obey and sustain the
law, you may want to consider the advice of the leaders of the Church. Are
there any among you who now want to ask President Monson, "What is it about the
word 'illegal' that you don't understand?" If so, I recommend that you look into
your own hearts, not Elder Jensen's or President Monson's. Thank you
Elder Jensen and President Monson.Signed,LDS Service
Missionary assigned to serve in one of 63 Spanish speaking units in Salt Lake
Somebody is confused about legal and illegal immigration. That same someone is
also too worried about offending others of his own faith in some other part of
the world. What price do we have to pay for the image of the church? I wonder
when we'll get someone calling for compassion for the stolen birth right of our
children? I wonder when someone will call for compassion for all of us who have
our income stolen legally by government only to be re-distributed to those who
invaded our country and dropped their kids on us to take care of. Compassion is
a fuzzy word but the implications are clear and the conference participants and
art work come from the open borders pro-illegal, appeasing, pandering and
possibly racist side of the argument. As a nation, America has been more than
compassionate already. We have fed, clothed educated and healed millions of
illegals. We are now asking that our laws be enforced and upgrated to stop an
invasion that has crippled California and Arizona to the point that they are
losing their culture and land to foreign invaders. Enough is Enough! Our
legislators need to act now! This year!
Oh, but it has taken a position. It says so in the Articles of
faith... something about "obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." Illegal
immigration is... well, breaking the law.
What wonderful advice: "Meet an undocumented person. Come to know their family."
I have an undocumented friend. Although he is trapped in a low-wage job through
a temp agency because his employer is afraid to hire him full time, he pays his
taxes. Whether or not others would agree, in his mind he was confronted with the
decision between crossing a border without proper documentation, or providing
for his children. Call him a criminal if you will, but his motive was pure. He
works hard. He is compassionate. He often helps people without compensation. He
did not take anyone's job--he took the job nobody wanted. He is a benefit to our
community. We would do better for ourselves to provide him a pathway to
citizenship than to make life so unbearable for him that he is forced to return
hopeless to his poverty.
The Church has spoken through Elder Jensen. The discussion is over. Its time for
faithful members of the legislature to bow their heads and say yes.. Although I
find the puppet like behavior of the faithful LDS members of the legislature
distasteful, I am in agreement with the Churchs position on the issues
surrounding illegal immigration. After allowing or enticing people to come here
with a wink and a nod now were all indignant that they came. I think taking
draconian action is not the answer. We need to humanely facilitate citizenship
for the honest hard working folks who are here, get rid of or lock up the
criminals, secure the borders and implement a national identity system. I can
not believe that in this computer age we can not have a fool prove
identification system making it virtually impossible to obtain employment or
government benefits without citizenship. Without jobs or benefits there would be
no incentive to come illegally
Let's see... we know they are sneaky. They sneak across the border.
As for law-breaking... well doesn't that speak for itself?
If I were in Mexico, without possibility, and with a family I would do the same
as so many others have done. I also find it sad that people in the United
States feel that the undocumented workers are the problem. We are the problem.
We hire them, we want cheep products. Some employers hire undocumented workers
and help them find a better life. Most however hire them for one reason, greed.
There are solutions, but only if we see understand the real
The compassion isn't for the undocumented workers. It is for their children.
To my understanding, these church leaders have never said they condone law
breaking. So why are we putting words in their mouths? All they are saying is
that if our representatives tried to get to know some of these people, the
majority of them are good natured people who love their families and want to
contribute to our society. We voted these people into office because they have
a brain, hopefully, to come up with solutions to difficult problems. I think
most of us would agree that not a laws are right at all times. Segregation was
legal, and many people in favor of it, until that law was changed, thankfully!
Are these church leaders saying it's okay to break the law? Or are they just
trying to urge our representatives to be compassionate and use their brains when
they are in a position to make or change laws that have an impact on human
lives? I am sure there can be compromises made, solutions found to help this
crisis, and I'm sure they won't please everyone. But let's try and forget about
ourselves and try and help these people. Try and find solutions, instead of
Lets not read into Elder Jensen's words here... We can honor the Rule of Law and
still show compassion. "Getting to know their families" is not a bad idea.
Become their freinds, encourage them to obey our contries laws, get their home
address in their country, help them and their family back to their country
(maybe the Church can help with the airfare or comfortable bus travel??) Write
your new freinds, send them job skill training books in their language, send
them Christmas cards, Birthday cards, heck, you could even send some money for
those events. Just make sure they are together as a family in their home
country!! Then write the heads of state for their respective countries and tell
them to develop their country's Entrepreneurial spirit and export Products and
Services instead of People!! And please, please, PLEASE keep them away from
Network Marketing or MLM ventures which suck the money from 99.9% of the poor
and give it to the .01% of the Rich!!
Are you serious? The First Presidency put out a statement a couple of years ago
saying that immigration status is not part of qualifying for the temple. For
that matter, pretty much anything short of sex crimes or murder won't disqualify
someone for the temple.Sure they are breaking the law - just like I
go 75mph in a 65 mph zone on I-15, or when a number of other people fail to turn
their turning signal to change lanes. You'll find the majority of LDS temple
goers to be lawbreakers when if you include such petty traffic laws and
ridiculous, outdated immigration laws. For all those who don't like
the church's admonition to be compassionate - leave. The church doesn't need
compassionate apostates. I find more atheists with bigger hearts than some
I don't think he was encouraging illegal immigration or saying that something
doesn't need to be done, I think he was just saying that it is possible for
mercy to be a part of justice. The system is obviously broken and needs fixed.
I think he was just encouraging some compassion in developing the fix. I, for
one, believe that part of the fix is to remove the incentive to come here
illegally (probably the most effective being to make it impossible to get a job
if you aren't here legally) and to make the procedure for immigrating legally
Elder Jensen must remember that his ancestors, like mine, came here legally, and
spoke English and became Americans. The issue here is the law Elder Jensen !
Thanks Elder Jensen and all others who are willing to stand up for decency for
all mankind. I want my voice to be heard also and not just the negative,
hate-slayers. How can I help?
Rosa Parks was a citizen of the US and protected under the laws as a resident.
Comparing illegal entry and identity theft is sad. The reason why
it's hard to get permission for legal immigration is simple. There are already
to many illegal people here. A country can only absorb so many before it affects
the standard of living and workers rights. MSM: That's not a
majority of the senate and would not of passed.
I think those saying, "The church is enocouraging illegal immigration", are
jumping to conclusions. All he said was, "Have compassion". In my
mind, the best way to show compassion for them is to help them go back and start
over legally. My friends wife had to go back to Honduras to clear up an
immigration issue and she is back now and so glad she doesn't have to look over
her shoulder and wonder if she is legal anymore.If we think "being
compassionate" is letting them live here as second-class almost-citizens who can
only do the jobs we don't want and have to live every day with the fear that
they could be split from their families at the whim of the government... what
kind of existence is that? Personally I would want to get legal no
matter what it cost. Helping someone get legal is the best thing I could do for
them, ignoring them as long as they don't rock-the-boat isn't compasionate.
Turning a blind eye to those currently here illegally ISN'T compassion. The
status quo [don't ask, don't tell... unless your at the wrong place at the
wrong time, then your gone] isn't compassionate.
Do you think local religious leaders could muster a small amount of compassion
for the parents of 100 children who are raped and murdered annually by illegal
aliens? Or the thousands of people whose identity is stolen and their lives
subsequently ruined? How about some compassion for the families of drug addicted
teans who got hooked on drugs that came here from Mexico on in the backpacks of
illegal aliens? While they are at it maybe they could shed a few tears
for all the construction workers who used to make $15 per hour and who are now
forced to work for $8. Where is the compassion for those whose lives have been
and are being destroyed every day by "hard working people looking for a better
life"? Where is the compassion for the school teachers in Utah who now
must teach a classroom full of illegal children who don't even speak English
while trying to maintain a decent standard for the children who have a right to
be in the classroom? If all these religions are so concerned why don't they foot
the bill for them all?
Well, so much for the 12th Article of Faith ...
free health care,free dental, no taxes, housing assistance, being illegal sounds
better than being a citizen.
I agree, we should treat them with compassion, as we lead them back to the
border and then ask them to come back as soon as they can "legally". What is
compassionate about my income dwindling because of taxes to keep them fed,
clothed, educated, my health care costs sky rocketing, and crime spiraling out
of control. How many illegals are in our prison system we are supporting Elder
Jensen? We don't have to be cruel, but we do have to be fair, first to the
people of Utah. Legislators, please remember what way you are facing and who
you really should report to, I don't think it is South of you and just down the
So, when will the Church revoke the 12th Article of Faith? Additionally, I'd
like to know if the Church will be announcing a list of laws that can now be
broken without fear of losing one's membership?What a joke! I for
one, do not support the apparent "message" of Elder Jensen.
It's pret-ty hard for the church to say "illegal immigration is bad" when they
had some stuff to clean up too . . .
How about some compassion for the taxpayers?Illegal immigrants are
taking money out of my wallet when they receive subsidies from many public
sources. Far too many are criminals. They should obey the laws of
the land they are in.
The Salt Lake Tribune included this statement by Elder Jensen:"I was
assigned to come here by the First Presidency of the church," he said, referring
to the church's three most senior leaders, including LDS Church President Thomas
S. Monson. Bottom Line...are you prepared to tell President Monson
that he is wrong on this issue?I believe the Articles of Faith, but
this is a living prophet's directive. I believe they can work together.We may not know the solution to the immigration issue, but when my
living Prophet says something, I don't question it.
Kevin Taylor, I am very comfortable asking Pres. Monson "what part of illegal
does he not understand", in an unconfronational way. In fact, I am writing
Elder Jensen and copying the Brethern. Many people have brought up
why this "support" by Elder Jensen is disturbing. How do we justify accepting
illegals immigrants to our children. We have them recite The 12th Article of
Faith, teach lessons on obeying the laws of the land, integrity, honesty, and
inform them that one of the temple recomend questions is "Are you honest in all
your dealings"? It's hypocritical!This isn't a compasion issue. On
a HUMANITARIAN stance...How does everyone feel about there direct and obvious
explotation by employers?
Political issue only? Not hardly. It is the law and we don't support the right
in this country to pick and choose which laws we will obey. Neither do we nor
should we in the Church. Good friends of mine are here legally after doing all
that the law forced them to do. Until such time as those laws are changed, my
compassion for these people extends up to the border and no further. When a
person breaks the law of my country, burns its flag, takes my tax dollars in
benefits while contributing nothing financially to the system, refuses to learn
English and pushes my country to adapt its language system to suit him, I say
NO. Go home and stay there. I have lived abroad in the Orient and certainly did
not go there and demand that the Japanese change their system so that I could
live there "in English." You adapt to where you legally choose to go, be
grateful that they are willing to taker you, or don't go at all.
Wait I thought the church was supposed to be nonpartisan. Especially when its
authorities start preaching conflicting views. COMPASSION? or OBEY
HONOR AND SUSTAIN THE LAW?I am sure glad God governs this church and
not some of these Ignorgant General Authorities.
To all who want to deport every illegal alien. What do you do about
their children who are legal? Take them from their parents, send them back with
their parents so that they starve? What about the young man or young women who
falls in love with a young person who has lived in the USA since they were just
a very young child and doesn't know any other country. Tell them that they
can't marry or that they can marry, but they can't live together after marriage
because the illegal one has to be deported?This is the compassion
that the church is asking that the legislature consider.Also, the
legislature (and congress) needs to consider the compassion (not) of using US
taxpayers money to pay for the illegal alien's welfare costs, housing costs,
etc.What is needed is a series of laws and initiatives that address
the many causes of illegal aliens: including no work south of the boarder, our
own appetite for cheap food, products, services, and such provided by their
labor. This is not a cut and dried issue. Both sides have
legitimate issues and concerns. It will take compassion on all sides.
Your tone and what you say would make sense if history were not what it is. The
United States offered Mexico money several times for the land that Utah and
other states sits on. Mexico refused to sell. After war where American then
took what it wanted by force, America offered money. Which Mexico accepted,
only because it knew it couldn't get the land back anyway. In addition to this
there are numerious Indian treaties made by the US Government which were later
broken when it became apparent that the US wanted the land after all. Given
this history of Law breaking by the US, the US needs to be careful not to insist
that it holds others to standards which itself was not willing to follow.It is highly proper that the United States exercise compassion in this
case. Given our history we need to be especially charitable and not hold others
to standards which our own country was not willing to follow.
Common people! All of these negative comments must be coming from people who
never lifted a hand to help someone else outside of their family. Are you all
so concerned about your own wallet that you are willing to forget about people,
and are willing to tear apart families? Isn't that what America is all about?
Helping the down trodden, poor and afflicted? Let's fix the laws to help these
people in a humane way.It's a sad day when the people of America are
more concerned about their almighty wallet, then a human life. Greed,
selfishness and pride are ugly things.I'm amused by all the people
who claim all our problems are caused by these illegals! They are all
criminals? Really? Maybe we need to take a look at ourselves!
Its interesting that the church just tightened up their temple recommends: with
bar codes; they have to be submitted by the stakes to make them valid, etc. This
gives the church greater control on who enters the temple. Yet Elder Jensen
feels like our State Legislatures can't do the same type of thing to protect
what it holds sacred and precious, namely our American Way of Life. We need
this discussed in General Conference because Elder Jensen's comments go against
what we have been taught as members.
You mean to say that we have been taught to uphold the American Way of life
before practicing simple Christianity? How sad.
Mr. Jensen is a true statesman as are most of the leaders of the LDS Church. It
is sad there are so few in the legislature that can say the same. If the Church
really did have the influence in the legislature that some fear, it would
certainly be a more kindly and humane body than it is. They claim to follow LDS
teachings, they get elected because of the presumption they are good LDS, but
in reality they go against most of the principles of the Church in their
catering to special interests.Thank you Mr. Jensen and thanks to all
the hard working "illegal" immigrants that are the corner stone of the US
economy and the only thing standing between us and $10 heads of lettuce.
I met an illegal alien once, when he was driving and hit my car from behind. I
would have liked to have gotten to know him and his family, but he gave me a
fake name and address, so I'll probably never see him again.When we
lived in California, my three sisters met an illegal alien who was living down
the street. After the unspeakable things he did to them, I don't really have a
desire to get to know him or his family. My sisters are still in therapy,
struggling with the issues related to being assaulted at such a young age. Only
one has remained in the LDS faith.Perhaps these church leaders
should spend some time with the victims of the illegal alien invasion before
making suggestions to be compassionate about them. There is enough anger and
frustration that in the coming years this situation could really boil over and
Let's step back and ask ourselves, "What would Jesus do?" The woman caught in
adultery comes to mind as an appropriate example of a person that had broken a
law, which was at that time a criminal law, as well as a spiritual law. Reading
Jesus's response to this moral dillemma of exercising compassion and forgiveness
versus enforcement of the law is very telling. We all know the result. The question continues to come up of how the 10th Article of Faith comes
into play in all of this. Fortunately, we have living prophets for just this
type of situation. While not speaking on the specifics of the bills, the
message from our living prophets has clearly been to exercise compassion, or
stated differently, ask what Jesus would do.
You can be a proponent of LEGAL Immigration and have compassion. I
say the ILLEGAL Immigrants follow the procedure of Repenting for sin/crime.
Return to their Countries and do the LEGAL thing and apply for Citizenship here
and enter the U.S. Legally after they have fairly stood in line behind those who
are trying to do the right thing.I can LOVE my Neighbor but if he
rips me off I am not going to let it continue to happen and I am going to
request justice. Mercy cannot rob Justice.
Imagine someone stealing your good name : your reputation is ruined ,your
credit rating is ruined , your Social Security is frozen , and numerous other
tragedies befall you . Each and every illegal alien who uses a phoney SSN is
doing this to some citizen without that citizens knowledge . It is called
"Identity Theft" and it is a crime even more serious than entering our country
illegally . Calling an illegal alien an undocumented worker is the same as
calling a burgler an unwanted houseguest .
You people are Uneducated Fear Mongers! Illegal immigration is illegal due to
the Immigration and Nationality Act. It was determined to be a misdemeanor and a
Judge would decide if the immigrant would be sent home if caught. I want to
remind everyone that most of us choose to commit misdemeanors daily mostly in
traffic violations.If you drive 1 mph over the speed limit you are in the same
violation as these immigrants. This is why these Ecclesiastical leaders are
pleading for people to have compassion and understand them. These people are not
and taking your job, do some research.If you were born and raised in America and
have not taken advantage of all of the opportunities to help you get as much
education as possible shame on you, but guess what, you still can go back to
school with government assistance or not, you would rather stay home and
complain about the possibilities of others coming to take your job. What
happened to the statement on the statue of liberty?cries she with silent lips.
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
Send these, the homeless, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
So, in other words, the living prophet now decides which laws can be ignored and
which should be obeyed?Can I also assume from your response that
Jesus is an advocate for the destruction of the United States, a country he had
a hand in founding (if we are to believe the Doctrine & Covenants)? Yes,
illegal immigration does destroy nations - it was certainly one of the factors
that lead to the fall of the Roman Empire.
Anyone who says that the obeying the laws of the land trumps compassion would
fit just fine as Nazi party member exterminating Jews during the Holocaust.
After all, the extermination orders were the "law of the land."Sounds like most of the people on this board worship "the law" more than
compassion. Sounds like the Pharisees. Oh ye hypocrites!
Has anyone thought to put yourself in these illegals shoes? Does anyone know
what it's like to live in a 3rd world country, and living in poverty that you
are almost begging to stay alive? We say we want them to come here here
legally, but to them that is insane to think about, when they can barely feed
their families. How can we expect them to be able to pay the fees of coming
here legally? Everyone says to deport them and make them come back the legal
way. How ridiculous is that when you see their situation! That is not a
solution, it's just a reaction.We Americans are spoiled and can't
understand that sort of poverty. I agree, mercy cannot rob justice, but who
made us Gods over these people?
TO THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO LEGALIZE YOUR STATUS, PEOPLE WHO ARE
MARRY TO AN AMERICAN CITIZENS I ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE A TRIP TO CD. JUAREZ,
MEXICO TO SEE HOM MANY OF THOSE WHO APPLY FOR PETITION ARE DENY EVERY DAY, WE
WANT TO DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO BE LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES, THE LAWS ARE SO
SCREW WE HOPE AND LOOK FOR COMPASION AND SOMEONE WHO CAN MAKE SOME REASONABLE
Just because the bretheren said it doesn't make it true. If you want to get to
know some undocumented immigrants, feel free to volunteer at the prison, Arizona
for instance supports 4000 mexican nationals to the tune of 100 million dollars
a year in their prison system. Do what you like. It's your money, liberty and
lifestyle being put on the line.
Jesus would say, "Go (leave the country),and sin no more".
...trumps stupid comparisons.What is it with the pro-illegal crowd?
Whenever someone says anything that even slightly shines a negative light on
illegal immigrants that person is automatically branded a "Nazi". Can't you do
any better than that?Speaking of hypocrisy, why don't YOU show some
compassion and give your social security number to these fine, upstanding
"guests" so they can get a job?You seem to be okay with them
stealing the identities of other people, why not volunteer yours so they don't
have to steal?
PLEASE MAKE YOUR VOICE HEAR AND GET INVOLVE IN THIS ISSUE THERE IS A LOT YOU
WILL DO IF YOU ONLY MAKE YOUR VOICE HEAR!
I would again ask "What would Jesus Do?" A law was broken. If Jesus were
ruling on the earth right now, and this situation were placed before him, would
he send a family back to Mexico, where the cost of the journey would leave them
with nothing, forced to live in a cardboard box and die of starvation? Or would
he acknowledge that a law was broken, administer a consequence commensurate with
the crime, and afterwards say "Go and sin no more." I recognize
that if illegal immigrants commit crimes, that is a different story, and there
is an issue of safety and protection. But what about the people that, but for
entering illegally, are keeping the law the best they can? Aren't these the
people that our living prophets are talking about when we need to consider
treating them with compassion? I'm afraid that if we rely solely on
the 10th Article of Faith in this discussion, and ignore the encouragement of
our living prophets, we will be following a dead prophet and not a living
prophet, as the people that remained in Nauvoo did, failing to follow the living
prophet, Brigham Young.
Even though Elder Jensen requested that we "measure twice and cut once", he's
not saying that we shouldn't pass laws that deter illegals from living here. It
doesn't mean that we allow our state's laws to be trampled upon. He's just
saying let's be sure we're doing the right thing, maintaining an attitude of
compassion toward illegals, and then let's go ahead and act.
As children of God aren't we supposed to abide by the law?What your
saying is that its OK for other children of God to break the law?What sort of child of God are you when you blatantly disobey the law?Seems contradictory to me.
I'm shocked at how quick many LDS jumpp to criticize the brethren the minute a
general authority proposes something that rightwingers disagree with. I guess
that makes clear where your loyalty is. I think the word in the scriptures is
"stiffnecked."Elder Jensen isn't talking about obeying or disobeying
the law, he's talking to the legislature MAKING the law. The men who decide
what counts as LEGAL or ILLEGAL. He's saying we should have compassion in
CRAFTING the law in the first place. Why is that so hard for the xenophobes in
Utah to understand?The fact is, we have an unjust system here. We
want it both ways: we want cheap produce and cheap labor, but we also want
excuses to indulge in the hatred of people not like us. Our economy encourages
immigration (illegal and otherwise), then we punish people that react to that
encouragement. We need to change the law to reflect economic reality and show
compassion.Shame on racist Utahns for using immigrants as scapegoats
for all their social ills. And shame on Mormons with the audacity to counsel
the brethren on how to interpret the Article of Faith.
This is the 5th year that some of these bills (repeal of in-state tuition and
drivers licenses) have been considered. So it appears that the legislature has
measured 5 times and is preparing to finally make a cut. I guess they're going
the extra mile.
I think the LDS people who read this need to take a deep breath and listen to
our church leaders. Soften your heart and think about the issue again. Elder
Jensen did not say that we can't enforce the laws; I hope we do. He said to
take into account the context in the *way* we enforce it. What
happens to people who are caught and deported, right now? If they are deported,
they often spend time in immigration prisons, with worse conditions and without
the rights that American murderers get--these are people who mostly jut wanted
to feed their families. And yet people say there's no room for compassion.It's really frustrating that despite the complexity of the problem,
people want to lay all the blame and all the suffering for it on the illegals
themselves, who are the least guilty. What about the fact that as a country we
liked cheap fruit so much that we couldn't bring ourselves to guard the borders?
What about the many businesses which have time and time again employed them,
without feeling any guilt at all? Those of you without sin on this issue, cast
the first stone.
Address the question. Do you claim that obeying the laws of the land is a
morally superior and morally the more important thing to do than having
compassion in lawmaking? If you do, fine by you.I never said I was
okay with identity theft. Any serious immigration reform should include
provisions for persons to be readily identifiable and not be so afraid of US
police authorities that they have to commit identity theft. Most posters here
are not "pro-illegal immigrant." We can enforce the laws on the
books, build a wall, penalize employers, institute temporary work visas, get
immigrants out of the shadows, stop identity theft, pay taxes (and get tax
Well said my friend.I hope that we can become more educated and involve in
this issue without any harsh but with the right knoledge upon us.
Premises: 1) Migration, moving from one geographic location to another, is not a
moral issue; 2) Immigration laws are civil, secondary laws of order, not morally
based constitutional laws. Why then are so many Utahns trying to make a
moral crime out of a civil infraction? (Who appreciate tickets for rolling
through a stop sign?) That reasoning is a red flag that something else,
is at the heart of the matter and not the fact that Latinos are "breaking visa
laws". Based on my experience, generally Utahns are really uncomfortable about
having to share their schools, supermarkets, roads with darker or "ethnic"
looking, Spanish speaking people. If you're uncomfortable with people who don't
share your exact same culture and looks, look inside yourself and decide what is
it that REALLY bothers you about immigration. At this point few if any people
are willing to accept that half of Latinos are in fact, residing legally in the
US. The beauty of ineffective civil law is it can be CHANGED to reflect reality
(our growing economy needing specialized and low-skilled laborers; we simply
cannot man all of our business ideas with only US citizens.) Don't confuse
crime/sin with infraction/amorality.
Any church member who tries to denounce the leaders of the church for coming
out in favor of the undocumented immigrants ought to consider why they are still
in the church. Some people have gone so far in trying to preach that the
church should oppose illegal immigrants I really think they should be brought
before church disciplinary councils and tried for their membership. Stop
calling them criminals. THEY ARE NOT CRIMINALS. Is someone who was brought
here as a two year old child a criminal. Your pay is falling not because
there are undocumented immigrants but because you have colaborated with the
employers in deneying them regular immigrant status. If all immigrant were
under regular status, than the minimum wage law would be enforceable and they
would not fear to join unions, strike, or quit low paying jobs. You are blaming
the victims of the exploitation for its existence. You have the exact same
rhetoric flowing from your mouth that was used by anti-slavery people who wanted
to keep slavery out of where they lived to keep wages high but had no problem
with people having slaves elsewhere.
Too many people in the church seem to have nothing but hate for undocumented
immigrants. What would you do if you knew someone in your ward had come to the
United States without documents. How would you treat them. If you can not
reach out to them with love and concern then how will you act. Remember
that Elder Uchtdorf fled East Germany illegally. He never recieved legal
permission to leave, so are you going to refuse to sustain him since he is
obviously an illegal emmigrant, never having recieved an amnesty for his illegal
Anonymous at 7:44 has such hate towards other children of God that I figure he
must have spent too much time wathing the news and too little reading the
scriptures. This idea that all undocumented immigrants go around stealing
people's identity is the type of devisive rhetoric that we do not need. We have
a choice, the church can be an inclusive organization that will grow. Or we can
take an attitude towards the over 10% of the US population that has undocumented
immigrants in their family that will stop the church from having any ability to
grow among such people.
Dug, If you are LDS and hold to your belief than why do you contradict
the teachings of the church leaders? Why are you so unwilling to share the
blessings you have with others? Why do you think you have such a claim on God's
blessings to us that you can deney it to others? And how can you live with
yourself exploiting the cheap labor of immigrants in what you buy but being
unwilling to give them any rights? To respond to the person who accuses
church members of doing nothing to help those in under developed countries, what
are these things called Church Humanitarian Services and the Perpetual Education
Too many people forget about the families that would be broken up if we were
to mass deport undocumented immigrants. And what about all the church
members who continued to practice polygamy after laws were passed against us.
Joseph F. Smith had the audacity to introduce two of his wives to President
Taft, not only breaking the law in doing so but in the most public way possible.
Drinking coffee is breaking the laws of God, crossing international
borders is breaking the laws of man. I still wonder though how people
know that there are undocumented immigrants in their stake.
There are lots of illegals here. They live 10+ to apartments with no furniture.
They're always mad. They came for a piece of the American dream and find that
there is only one pie and their piece is too small and getting smaller. Make all the laws you want, they ignore the present ones, why would they
listen to new ones? Go down to the border at say, El Paso Texas and
look across. Why would anyone stay there when just on the other side they can
see a better something that will never exist in Mexico.Get Mexico to
get it's collective head out of the sand. Quit supporting their drug
cultivation, that money is killing Mexico. Get the Mexican government to allow
foreign investment in Mexico. Make Mexico a place where jobs are created and not
illiterate people are born with no hope.
John Lambert You are condemning anyone and everyone who doesn't see things in
your way. I really don't like reading your malarkey! You are too full of
yourself and seem to hate for others who don't think like you. You have twisted
I know what to do!Let's give free citizenship to criminals!Let's not stop there!How about American citizenship for people
still in Mexico!How about American citizenship for terrorists!I'm John McCain, and I have to admit I approve of this sad message.
What's with all the hatred from the Inspector Javert types who worship The Law
of the Land more than the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Could one of you
good LDS folks please explain what Christ meant when He taught that *there is no
greater law* than loving God and loving your neighbor? What did Paul mean when
he said that without charity, we are nothing? What did Moroni mean that without
charity, we cannot be saved?The comment about having compassion for
the Gadianton Robbers was priceless. Thanks for the chuckle--though a sad one.
I honestly pity anyone and everyone who really believes that the Gadianton
Robbers are building and painting our houses, cleaning our streets, maintaining
our public spaces, building our roads, and so forth. You really need
to MEET some of these people, as I have. Before you do, be forewarned: You might
learn they're human beings, too! So getting to know some of them might cause
you to lose your blind hatred and prejudice. I guess it depends on
what you value more!
Another thing: I know and recognize that some illegals do commit aggravated
misdemeanors and felonies--from ID theft and drug dealing to rape and murder.
THEY should be dealt with according to the law. Deport THEM--straight to a
Mexican prison, and throw away the key. Compassion doesn't, and can't, excuse
those crimes. No argument here!Most illegals, however, are just here
to try to feed their families. Fine them if you must--and require their
employers to help them pay the majority of the cost--for the "crime" of crossing
the border without legal permission. But don't treat ALL of them as if they
were hard-core criminals and terrorists. That's not true, and it speaks ill of
LDS members that some would do so. (I hope fanatical AZ State Rep. Russell
Pearce, who will never have my vote in this life, somehow gets this message.)Compassion doesn't mean OVERLOOKING the law. It just means you
recognize that there are greater moral principles than legal statutes and higher
authorities than political bodies and their leaders. You don't paint everybody
with the same brush and you remember to be kind and charitable. Especially if
that's what your church actually teaches!
People should stop using the rhetoric of legal immigration and speaking
English. The immigration laws in the 1880s allowed anyone who showed up to come
in. Yet how many people have ancestors who stowed away on ships. We
used to have a member of our high coucil who had both his parents come over from
Italy as stowaways. Should we not have baptized him and instead insisted that
he go back to Italy. I am not sure that Elder Jesnen's immigrant
ancestors learned English. For years the public schools in St. Louis and
Cincinnatti were giving instruction in German. The Swedish in Utah actively
advocated for holding church meetings in their native language. Polish papers
were pubished in many places in the United States. At one point Germans
advocated for getting German made an official language in the United States, and
how legal were my Mayflower ancestors, settling without even asking the previous
residents permission and totally imposing their own laws on the system that was
For you information most of our ancestors were English! I am tired of reading
your rhetoric. You are a racist and a bigot!
I'm a bit familiar with what you're talking about. The Germans came here and
settled a large swath of the countryside and had their own schools where
everything was taught in German. They were advocating a New Germany here. The
idea never caught hold and today all that is left is the german names on things.
My grandmother spoke only german until she graduated from high school. Wish
those advocating their own micro-climate would see how foolish that works out
over the years. It's OK to immigrate but for the right reasons. When you
do, adopt you new homeland or pay the consequences that come with not doing
I am wondering which laws can we as members of the LDS church break and still
obtain a temple recommend? What happened to the the law of the land?## 12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and
magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.However,
that is old doctrine by Joseph Smith.Many of his teaching are
Can you please cite your source for Mexico refusing to sell land to the U.S.?
(Google isn't helping me here.) According to the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo,
the U.S. insisted on the Mexican territory where many of the Western states now
sit *as a condition of the treaty.* They also gave $15M to Mexico for war
reparations. Texas voted to join the U.S. several years after declaring its
independence from Mexico, so it wasn't part of the deal.Are you
referring to negotiations prior to the war? Or are you confusing this with
*Napoleon's* refusal to sell the Western Territory while *he* had control of the
land? There didn't seem to be much room for offers one way or the other after
the U.S. forces marched into Mexico and took possession of Mexico City and
several other cities and territories during the war itself. (A bit of
historical detail that might interest some of you borders-are-sacred people...)
And Mexico *did* sell land in the Gadsden Purchase--*after the war.* Could you please enlighten me? THANKS!
A few comments. First off, I want to say that I think Joseph F. Smith
was an upright and moral man for acknowledging his wives and do not fault him.
However, everytime he did so he broke the law. Second, I do not support
polygamy. Third, there is a much higher crime rate in Detroit than
anywhere in Utah but we have many fewer undocumented immigrants. Fourth,
I once was assulted by a legal immigrant but I do not go around claiming they
are all criminals. Fifth, the Roman Empire's downfall is that it
mistreated its immigrants, not that it had them. The Goths only rebelled
because they were so mistreated by the Romans. Sixth, it was the
Romanized Germans and not the truly other Huns that destroyed the Roman
Empire. Seventh, remeber Mexico is the number one source of legal
immigration. Eighth, many immigrants just overstay their visas, so they
never snuck anywhere. Do not make blanket assumptions. Ninth, why
don't we just make labor another commodity that moves under NAFTA. We destroy
Mexico's agricultural industry with our cheap imports and then complain when the
people move across the border to get jobs.
It is convenient for many of those posting here to find a scapegoat in the
"illegals" here for their insurance rates, job status, crime rates, identity
theft and so forth. Please don't be so shortsighted as to not consider the
multitude of layers in each of these complex social issues. A sound-bite from a
politician or a media source doesn't mean it encapsulates the entire truth. For
example, you might be surprised to know that the taxes paid by illegal
immigrants for sale of goods (groceries, gasoline, clothing), rent (which are
built into property taxes), utilities, etc. and for their employers who must pay
income taxes, medicare, social security for their workers provide billions of
dollars to this country. Most federal aid programs (contrary to many statements
here) are unavailable to undocumented persons. Or, for a simple example -
studies show that part of the increase in crime rates can be traced to families
not sitting down to dinner together. My point is that to simply point the
finger at undocumented persons is to just find the easiest scapegoat to kick
without exploring the whole picture.
ahhh ahhha! To church members. We are here to stay for those of you who don't
want us here.Ahhhhaaaaaa!
23-25% of the total us prison population is made up of illegal immigrants. Each
of the 500,000-550,000 illegal aliens are costing tax payers over $30,000 each
year then add the cost to hospitals in health care that they don't pay for.
You SB,You are way out of line. You need to go research everything a bit
better.I think it is time to send all VIKINGS home too!
Valery, I will send you some national studies, if you would like. I
actually made my comments after having done research, not on relying on the
media or my next door neighbor to be an expert. Every thing I said above is
subject of research by private or public organizations reasearch and study.
That said, I recognize that there will always be conflicting conclusions or
results, depending on the specific focus of the research. It happens in every
kind of field of study. What I advocated, and still do, is that before you
blame all social problems on one thing (in this case illegal immigrants) ...make
sure that you are getting all the pieces to the puzzle, so that you can act
reasonably and take action based on reality and not on some whim of opinion.
SB, thank you for the valid points. I agree with you whole heartedly!Valery, what planet did you come from?The more I think about this,
and the more I read these comments, the less validity the anti-illegal
immigrants have. They are just sounding like a bunch of childish selfish racist
hate mongers. Those siding on compassion make much more sense and have a much
stronger argument. Love and compassion will always beat out hate, selfishness,
greed, and MAN made laws that are flawed and need to be fixed to account for
human decency.My hope is that we have decent, intelligent and
compassionate representatives that will listen to their conscience to do what is
decent, moral and FAIR to help these people in need. And not listen to those
who hate and only think of themselves and act like children.
SB, sounds like you're the one with your head on straight. Curious--People who
actually take the time to learn about the issue from *factual* sources instead
of listening to the
hysteria almost have no place in this debate. It's about who can shout the
loudest and create the most fear. Not facts. Not reason. Not humanity. And
certainly not compassion.I wonder if this was what it was like in
pre-Nazi Germany? The rhetoric sounds WAY too much like it for my comfort!
Have some human decency, people.
Looks like some cages have been rocked and rattled on here. I don't care for BS
from SB. And Decency! you have none. I'm totally amazed at how suddenly these
blogs have been taken over by illegals...GOOD GRIEF!
What--being compassionate is suddenly now being taken over by illegals? Quite a
leap of logic, though I'd expect little less from any group of people who think
it's a wise use of taxpayer money to try to round up and deport 13 million human
beings, 90% of whom will be back within the month. Whatever. That makes
whatever we're doing in Iraq look like clockwork by comparison! Trying decency
and compassion for a change seems perfectly rational to me.
Millions of Mexicans illegally living in the US and people really think they all
should go "home?" Do you really think that none of them were prompted by the
Spirit to leave Mexico. You really believe that? How could that possibly be
true! Have you ever met any illegals - have you asked them about the divine
inspiration they felt to move here and make a better life for generations to
come. God inspired my ancestors to leave England and move to Mexico (now
Utah) - why wouldn't he inspire Mexicans today to move to the US? Let them stay
- secure the border - really secure it - think DMZ -but let them stay. Mercy is
needed here, not justice.
i support an inmigration Reform ..
To dp,No, I absolutely DO NOT think that a single illegal immigrant
was prompted or inspired by the spirit to enter this country illegally. The
spirit of God is the spirit of righteousness and goodness, NOT the spirit of
violating the law.Just because your ancestors were "inspired" to
leave England hundreds of years ago, doesn't mean we should accept anyone
who claims to be "inspired" to come to our country. Imagine how "inspired" many
Islamic Fundamentalists could be, coming in here with who knows what strapped to
their inspired bodies!?We live in a VERY different world than your
ancestors did. We cannot afford to give the "mercy" you claim to want for
illegals without robbing from those who are legal citizens and who followed the
laws entering the country.I liked Mitt Romney's nuanced solutions to
this problem. He was right - being here illegally should NEVER give a person an
advantage over those who are trying to follow the law in gaining citizenship.
I see the arguements , there here so let them stay. Have compassion. Most are
from Mexico as if that justifies then being excused. Or that you will break up
their families, That the Immigration system needs fixing. It is unfair. That
God loves all his children , therefore have mercy on those here, it isn't any of
their fault? WE are being unfair to them. If you don't have compassion for
them, then you have no compassion! Much of this is shear
nonsence.1. The Law allows a greater number to come from Mexico
Legally, so how is it fair to have more than their legal share come?2. How
does those that come illegally and allowed to stay and be harboured help those
that wait in line to come legally? Where is the compassion for those that wait
in line?3. If you allow those illegal to be come legal, you then justify
them to be able to move their respective family members to USA ahead of all
those waitng in line to come legally. How is that compassion for those that have
waited 10-15 years legally.4. My wife has waited 6 years for legal
My wife has waited 6 years to get her legal Citizenship.WE jumped
through all the hoops. Good or bad . All this discussion isn't about changing
the immigration law. Or you would address it. All this discussion is about how
to make legal those that broke the law.How to reward them. Those
here seem to forget compassion was shown a little more than 15 years ago when
amnesty was given to that group of illegals. From then on those coming were to
come through the front door. Surprise, they continued to come
through the back door.12-20,000,000 of them. Now you want to have compassion on.
Let me suggest to you there are still people waiting in line that
have yet to arrive legally from back the 1st time amnesty was given. They still
wait their respective turn. Where is your compassion for them.They are every bit
as hungry, seperated from their family, living poor.What of those
from Asia, Africa waiting, how is it fair that one country has a large share
legally, then 10 times the amount of them come over the border illegally, while
the rest do not have the same opportunity. Punish those legally
I have visited 3rd world countries, have helped more than a few members and non
members to go to college, build houses, paid for many operations, taken a
wheelchair to the Philippines for a girl with no legs, sent enough money to pay
for 80 surgeries. I have visited the saints wards there in those poor countries.
I see little compassion being extented for those that legaly stay in their own
country. They are poor, have few things, no employment opportunities. little
food. Give all the clarion cry you want to help the illegals and
turn around and not lift one finger to help those that stay, or try to come
legally -- see how Christ feels about a blind eye in favor of illegals that
holds back any attention to those that also deserve this same compassion.Some in the name of the family will spend their days, weekends building
uptheir respective family, spend great amount of time doing work for the dead,
but will have done absolutely nothing for the worthy poor of either their own
Church or others that are located elsewhere in the world, but you want someone
to help those that are here illegally.Shame!
and you can't speak for me or have mine!
you make a good pt., this country needs a house of order! I am a american and
my family along with myself are often put to the back of the line in favor of
these people. No more, No more!! We have relatives who have died right here from
Utah in this war fighting for our homelands by boundaries(where these people are
regulated by law and have made many attempts to infiltrate across the nation)
Homeland Security does come with a price. The Open Border policy allows for
disease increases that plague this population such as Aids, going undiagnosed
and unchecked, ruthless gangs, havoc of who's using who's ID. The greater
balance of justice needs to be rendered by border control, exact numbers,
fairness shown to good workers, corporations being held accountable, what has
been done is the false feeling of security which is a lie to these vunerable
people once again..is that the ICEman has given them a reprieve. But call me
what you will as I will stand by the law of the land because wasn't it so long
ago that the church was encouraging people to stay in their own countries to
make it heaven there!LEGAL!!!!!
2 illegal immigrants have a child and that child is legally a citizen? That's
crazy. Barring any enforcement of illegal immigration laws why don't we just
annex South America? Basically, that's what we've done.
God has inspired people to break the law throughout scripture - even inspired
the righteous to kill people - why is it so hard to believe that he has inspired
people to flee Mexico and come to the US to make a better life for themselves
and future generations?
Native of America: please don't use caps, it's annoying.It took my
forefathers 9 years of waiting to come here from Ireland during the potato
famine. Immigration laws are designed to protect the workers. Every country has
them. Business and labor work as a cycle. During times of high unemployment when
there are few jobs, wages to the workers is at a stand still or reduced. We
can't afford to have millions of people here with no jobs for them. During times
of job growth, business has to compete for workers and wages go up. Because of
this, immigration is limited to not affect the cycle. Having 15-20 million here
illegally has disrupted this countries balance, and if we head into a recession,
things are going to really get bad. Once the illegals are out of the country,
then there will be more legal immigration. It's the illegals are keeping the
So let me get this right. God inspired the 12-20 million to come across the
border illegally, but the devil inspired all those that have been waiting in
line legally . So those in line are fools, waiting to come to USA the right way.
If I understand you , if 1 person comes illegally , then they sneak
their relatives over the border later, so they have a full family or extend
family here. As all 12-20,000,000 didn't get here the same day. then it is a
good thing. Now let me see, If the Church doesn't care if they are illegal as
long as they are baptized. and doodesn't mind if they bring more in illegally,
and provides fast offerings to sustain them, and gives them jobs. What messages
is being given to those that wait their turn? Isn't that aiding and
abetting illegal activity. And Here I get to see them in the temple????? My that
is wonderful. So may wife's 6 years for citizenship, and at least another 15
years to get her parents here is stupid if we try to do it legally. They should
have to suffer because a few countries dominate illegally.
Let's discuss more. For my wife to come to USA, she had to have a physical- no
diseases that protects those in USA- she had to have proof That I could afford
her here. That is she had to be sponsored in such away, that when here she could
not go on welfare or be a burden to the public at large. No food stamps, no free
lunch. no special Social Security. She can not work without approval. She is
legaly issued a card which cost more than a total of $3,000 to obtain.Partly to
insure that a good and complete background check is done to insure she is legal,
not a thief, has no criminal record, not a prostitute, and so on, not a
terrorist. after jumping through all these legal hoops, she must
learn and identify with American values and language. so you play
the compassion card for those that skip all these standards to whose benefit?
certainly not mine or my children or to the benefit of my wife, either. We have
a legal child and legal parents. If you want to show compassion
sponsor someone to come into USA legally. State law doesn't change legal status
Let's talk about English. all schools in the Philippines are taught
in English even thoughj the people speak their ownm language. Almost every
philippino that comes to America can simulate to the american way of life. In Mexico , where you may have millions upon millions coming to USA -
absolutely no attempt is being made to assist their people to learn English, yet
there President wants them to come to USA and send money home. If he cared about
his people, they can learn Spanish at home, and english in their respective
public schools. If you were a leader of this country and you wanted to assist
your people and your neighbor relations , that would be the best way to serve
those of mexico. That would have been 12-20 million English speaking people ,
what a difference it would make on how or what type a problem we would have with
them here. At least a 1/3 or more of the problems are because they can not
understand English and need to stay in their own little communities rather than
assimulate into the American culture. Because they are illegal they can stay non
english speaking increasing the problem.
The Churches , the state, the public , the social security, the welfare
programs, the educational, and hospitals and all citizens are absolutely not
opposed to legal immigration. I promise you Legal immigration protects all. It
has nothing to do with incouraging illegal immigration. You want
more legal immigration, then seek to change those laws that either increase the
flow of people or changes the policies that need to be followed to get people
here. Seems to me your forefathers addressed that, but what am I to believe they
didn't care about you or them once they were here. Stupid me to
think that they wanted to protect you from having to carry burdens such as bad
diseases from getting into USA, or letting terrorist in, or criminals, letting
peop[le in who could not sustain themselves or their families . Seems they
provided a way for those that came to learn the American culture, allowed to
keep own , but learn ours as well. and our language. To respect our law. Seem
they gave the citizens a chance to show compassion by sponsoring and insuring
they would come legally and appropriately, in an orderly way, and legally, each
What else can you expect from Jensen! He's a LAWYER! These knuckleheads all
Since when does a seventy peak for the first presidency of the LDS church?
Joseph Smith disliked attorneys because they always twist the truth. Elder
Jensen is in no way authorities spokesmen for the LDS church. He is not part of
the Quorum of the 12, and he has little authority and should not express himself
as he has. During Sunday meetings this week many members were upset over his
actions. And for those of you who try to cover this up-- SHAME ON YOU!
I'm sorry we are stretching the limits of your compassion. Apparently you
are not alone in feeling your capacity for tolerance is being strained to the
breaking point. We are at your mercy, and we beg you: these are our
friends. They are real people next door whom we barbeque with, play softball
with, go to church with. Our children play together. We understand
they broke the law. We understand your sense of justice demands punishment. We
know there are others in the world much worse off, and we are working along with
you in your humanitarian causes. But we still care deeply about these our good
neighbors. They have blessed our lives and we love them. We have found that
although they came here illegally to take the jobs we offered them, their hearts
are still good, and they are some of the most decent, hard-working people we
know. If there is any possible way we can work together to solve our
border problem without having to uproot them, terrify them, and dash their hopes
of a better life for their families, then please--let us give it every chance we
can.Sincerely,A fellow Utahn and friend
Dear fellow Utahn and friend:Are you serious or do you feel
compelled to speak this way?I have great doubts about the sincerity
of all of the talk of compassion. Not one writer for the Deseret News or General
Authority supports shutting the border and resolving this issue?No
problem at all here that doesn't simply need a compassion bandaid?How simple. Why didn't we think of this before. Revelation?Bunk!Please explain how having barbeques con tus amigos, who sense
no obligation to obey our laws since we're so full of compassion towards them,
will encourage the tens of millions of others work through legal channels to
enter this country? It won't.How will playing softball (great use of
words, friend) and being Good Neighbor Sam encourage these people to respect
your property and rights (governed by those pesky laws they can pick and choose
to obey). It won't.How will having everything printed in Spanish
encourage these people to learn English and integrate into this country's
culture? It won't.You like living next door to illegals? Good,
because soon they'll be the only neighbors you have in Utah, their new Mecca.
People should NEVER feel sorry for those who break laws. It then says to others
that it's okay to break them. American's who are legal go to jail for less
crimes than do any illegals--- what's this? This is crime against law abiding
Americans. I am totally disgusted!! There are NO EXCUSES FOR THIS
KIND OF BEHAVIOR!
dear Utahn and friendYou see the problem as one kind friend, you
fail to see they represent 12-20,000,000 who also have friends, and will also
continue to live illegal , that they will have to falsify all they do. Lie,
never be able to corect their deeds without ever leaving the USA, They will be
unable to repent until you presuade them to go home. and enter through the
correct gate. You are aiding and disabling them, from taking the actions
necessary. You and they hope that some how they will be given a free pass to
stay, legally, That they will have a (right) to ignore their wrong doing while
expecting all others that wait in line to have to come in through the front
door. You feel will not effect another soul. I suppose the 1/3 the
host of heaven felt the same way, they wanted the same rights, but were not
willing to do what was required of them, they felt they should also have a
guarantee to have what they wanted. Rules of law meant nothing. You take no
action or responsibility. Pay to support them while they are illegal,show
charity for them and us
And another thing . . .I don't think I'm alone in wanting the
Deseret News' editors and Church leaders to explain why it is so imperative that
we overlook this whole illegal immigrant issue.Forget the sob
stories and compassion menu de jour. They don't work. Flattery only works on
those who flatter.Please explain who issued the mandate for the
sympathy, the sob stories, and now the guilt trip. Further, please tell us
why.That seems simple. I'm just not confident you can be genuine
1) Elder Jensen did not condone illegal immigration - he suggested compasssion.
Do you think a man a god should suggest incompassion ?2) THere are
many home builders and landscapers that live in my ward in their $700k-$1,000k
homes. THat is money that was built on the backs of illegal immigrants? I mean
should a landscaper make 250K/ year because they have the "talent" of hiring
illegals(payed on 1099 without no taxes withheld and leaving the rest of us to
pick up the tab for all the social/infrastructure costs). I think
that these people bear some serious responsibility for the problem. I asked the
contractor that built my house if he used illegal immigrants and he told me "
I'm no documents expert, if they show me paper with number on it I accept it."
Of course none of them could speak beyond even rudimentary english.Perhaps the legislature should address this, maybe if they passed a law
requiring withholding from payments to 1099 "independant contractors", that
would go a long way towards solving the problem
orrin hatch is the proble
I agree with the article. It is Christlike to have compassion and to share what
we have. This country has been given so much by God. The more we give, the more
He will give us. Let's keep it that way.
Lets get behind Elder Jensen. I spent years of my life introducing the LDS
faith to people who live in a Latin nation. I find it sad that people of my
faith dont want the very same people living near them. This is a culture war
that has everything to do with keeping the other out of our land. It is not an
easy task to cross legally or illegally. If you want to keep these people legal
lets change our laws to make it easy to become a member of our society. Rather
then brushing our brothers and sisters under the rug.
I am totally in agreement with Elder Jensen's plea for compassion to the
individuals who are here illegally. However, compassion does not mean cannot
enforce our laws. We don't have to be mean or hateful to enforce existing laws.
No one would, for one moment suggest that in the name of compassion we not
enforce laws against kidnapping, murder, robbery, or other criminal activity.
Immigration laws are designed to allow us to know who is coming in to the
country and for what purpose. The current efforts of States to enact
immigration laws are a result of the Feds refusal to enforce the laws in
existence. Let's just enforce our laws, secure our borders and simplify
immigration laws so that those who want to come here for a better life and to
work and be law abiding citizens can do so.
It is a matter of faith. Do you support the prophet and do you seek the Lord in
prayer to align your heart and mind with His. I'm confident the prophet has
already done that. Please stop all the vitriolic comments about immigrants. It's
frankly makes this committed Mormon sad.