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Have compassion for immigrants, lawmakers urged

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  • Anonymous
    Feb. 14, 2008 12:29 a.m.

    I hope the legislature looks compassionately at every bill they pass, not just the ones on illegal immigrants. As said in the article the Church takes no stand. I home the lawmakers enforce the laws, and do not take this as an endorsement for allowing status quo. Something needs to be done, and eliminating their ability to work is the sensible solution. But it should be done in a way that they can return to their homeland unless they have violated the law.

  • Kinda Sad
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:09 a.m.

    Kinda sad that Mormons have to be reminded to be compassionate and look and illegal immigrants as God's children, just like every other human is. What do Mormons teach in their Sunday School? (I suppose you can teach whatever you want but that doesn't mean Mormons learn or follow their teachings). I thought Mormons were Christians? Why the need for constant reminders that all humanity is God's children - that's bread and butter gospel, but seems like the members just don't get it.

  • Carlos B.
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:55 a.m.

    Dear Country:

    At last, someone is making sense in the issue of immigration.

    Thank you Elder Marlin K. Jensen (LDS).

    Thank you Bishop John C. Wester (Catholic).

    And, Thank you Pastor Steven Klemz (Evangelical) for all your support and positive comments towards a comprehensive immigration reform.

    I am also a Pastor and I too am in favor that our government pass a law that would benefit the millions of undocumented people in the United States of America. This is the reason why THE LORD has blessed this nation. The love and compassion towards our neighbor.

    We need to remember that THE LORD GOD of JACOB, THE GOD OF ISRAEL and THE GOD OF THIS COUNTRY made the earth for us human being. But, because of our hard heart we have made borders. Let's be a blessing to those in need, so that GOD may bless more our nation and not only bless us, but PROTECT US from those who wants to damage the United States of America.

    Sincerely,

    J. Carlos B.


  • barryrichfield
    Feb. 14, 2008 2:42 a.m.

    I commend the LDS, BUT:

    Should not those that ask others to give compassion give it themselves?

    Of the many faithful ,legal immigrants that are sick, seperated from their families, hungry, or poor that are legally waiting to come to the USA are extended compassion? That those illegally here should receive it?.

    How many LDS Chapels are being used to feed, house or care for these , either here in USA or 3rd world countries?.

    The Church teaches its members to work toward an eternal Family. Families spend great wealth towards that end and do great work for the dead. But families do nothing for the living poor, hungry or sick among its own membership in 3rd world countries. let alone reach out to those outside its own to give this Christ like love, charity or compassion.

    Where is the guidance given its membership to reach out and take in a poor family, someone sick or hungry into their home, or to sponsor the poor of other countries in their repective locations through their own branches , wards, or stakes?. Rather then ask a State law maker to have compassion , Maybe the LDS Church could begin at home?

  • Karen Smith
    Feb. 14, 2008 4:31 a.m.

    I do feel compassion, but I want people who enter our country illegally to go back and return following US immigration law and regulation. We are a law-abiding country and it will always stick in the craw of Americans to watch people flaunt the law and begin their lives in America after having gotten in by, basically, cheating the system and disadvantaging all the people who are trying to follow the law and not circumvent the system.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 14, 2008 4:40 a.m.

    Two comments. I hope they have compassion also for the workers who reside in the State legally, and for the 12-20 million people dealing with identity theft, so people illegally in the United States can work.

    Illegal aliens are not immigrants. Immigrants come legally to this country, following the immigration laws. Many wait for years and years. My forefathers came here after almost a decade of waiting.

  • Bob G
    Feb. 14, 2008 5:12 a.m.

    This compassion for the illegal Mexicans the chruch speaks of is what has been and continues to destroy America and the Unity of the American people. These illegal aliens and foreign natiionals are preying on this compassion and using it against the American people. The time has come to throw compassion out the window for the illegals and put the american people and our country first, have compassion for the americans that have and are victimized by these illegals. Have compassion for the Americans losing their jobs and job security to these illegls. Have compassion for our governement and social programs that are supposed help the poor americans. Compassion for the illegals ends at the Mexican border and the time to serve the american people and protect our rights to have the american dream. The illegals, all 23+ million of them, have served their purpose and now it's time to rid this country of them. The will of the american people to have dreams of success has been crippled and destroyed. The abundence of illegal labor for business has systematically destroyed any hopes of the american workers and now it's time to take the illegals off the pork of government.

  • fed up in salt lake
    Feb. 14, 2008 6:03 a.m.

    i wonder if the same people that are so pro illegal immigration, have had their pay cut by half over the last few years and when they do hold out for a living wage only to watch their taxes go up and up to subsidize the employer who is giving our jobs to people who are here illegaly, after all someone has to pay for all the freebees, like housing,free medical, wick, free lunch at school, heat , and many other programs, while watching crime follow closly behind. so when you hear so many people talk about how we NEED the illegals hear , ask yourself , DO WE ?

  • Oops . . .
    Feb. 14, 2008 6:14 a.m.

    Let's fix that typo:

    It's meant to say, "Have compassion for criminals".

  • Karen K.
    Feb. 14, 2008 6:26 a.m.

    Not taking a position? Are you kidding me? It is obvious that religious leaders are taking a position in favor of illegal aliens. Oh well, I guess I will continue to follow the advice my church leaders give me and honnor and obey the law. No double standard here that I can see.

  • Re: Kinda Sad
    Feb. 14, 2008 7:11 a.m.

    It's also KINDA SAD that mormons know so little of their own history that they have no clue that their ancestors were once the same thing.
    Only, THEIR ancestors fled to Mexico because their practices were not allowed by the 'promised land' "set up so that they could be founded".

  • Unbelievable
    Feb. 14, 2008 7:39 a.m.

    Elder Jensen can't possibly mean what he said about taking a "factual" approach to the problem. That would certainly not lead to more compassion. We have compassion fatigue because we see the problem growing. And his comment about getting to know an illegal alien is absurd on the face of it. When we hold home evenings at the prison, we love the felons. We forgive them for what they did. BUT WE DON'T LET THEM GO AND PRETEND THERE WAS NO CRIME. Do the Brethren realize that is their message? Will I be excommunicated for my stand against illegal aliens?

  • John
    Feb. 14, 2008 7:47 a.m.

    Elder Jensen -
    At what point do we stop showing compassion for Gadianton robbers? Either you support rule of law or you ignore it. You can't choose the laws you want to obey and the ones you want to completely disobey - there are consequences. I support legal immigration 100%. It's illegal immigration I struggle with.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 14, 2008 7:44 a.m.

    "Meet an undocumented person," he said. "Come to know their family."

    Not a good idea, they might sell your information to a relative living in another part of the country, and you'll end up trying to fix your credit once they use your identity.

  • anders
    Feb. 14, 2008 7:53 a.m.

    Utah's new immigration measures come straight from Apartheid South Africa's book. Now there's a state to emulate.

  • RH
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:15 a.m.

    Once again, the church is sticking its nose into legislative business. How about the separation rule when it comes to law making and religious influence.
    I hope the laws get passed and we can start taking control of the illegal immigrant situation. They are breaking our laws and I have no compassion for any law breaker. Round them up and send them home. Church leaders should keep to their business of running their church, not the government.

  • Dan H.
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:17 a.m.

    Which side of the mouth is the church talking from today? We don't generally take a stand on legislative issues - except alcohol and immigrants. AlcoPop's are legal and we think they shouldn't be and immigrants are illegal and we want them to be legal. I am getting dizzy in the winds of change.

    Should we be excepting a rewrite of the Articles of Faith soon to suit the needs and will of the church - "We believe in not being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in disobeying , dishonoring, and opposing the law".

  • Dug
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:19 a.m.

    It is time for the churches to practice what they preach. Let the churches suck it up and pay the price for being compassionate. Not the general public. I am LDS and I hold to my belief, however let the different religions take up the call and provide the expenses for medical care, WIC, free school lunches and the many other programs that are handed out to the illegals. In this way I can decide for myself wether to pay my tith and support my beliefs or not. Not expect the citizens of this community or any other community to carry this unlawful burdon. I know may illegals due to my employment and the majority are very hard workers. BUT THE LAW IS THE LAW. Is it not what religions teach, to follow and obey the laws of the land??? Let the immigrants come to this country legally!!

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:31 a.m.

    Elder Jensen, what part of obeying the law of the land do you not understand? Illegal immigration is not the same as legal immigration.

  • Mark
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:33 a.m.

    The ICE Officer can show compassion as he assists the illegal's onto the bus and again show compassion as he assists the illegal's off the bus into the country from whence they came.
    The 12th Article of Faith of the LDS church says that we believe in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law.
    We are fed up with the increased crime and other costs associated with the illegal's that are flowing into this country. This must cease. The Federal legislators have refused to take a serious stand and stop this insanity so it has become necessary for State legislators to do so. I hope that our legislators will not buckle to the comments by Bro. Jensen. I have had nothing but the highest respect for Bro. Jensen in the past but we part ways on this issue.

  • Re: Bob G
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:41 a.m.

    "The illegals, all 23+ million of them, have served their purpose and now it's time to rid this country of them. The will of the american people to have dreams of success has been crippled and destroyed. The abundence of illegal labor for business has systematically destroyed any hopes of the american workers and now it's time to take the illegals off the pork of government."

    Served their purpose?! How is it possible to take such a crass view of human life? I see that this country's culture of life only extends so far... Sad.

    Somos hermanos -- get over it.

  • Just Wait
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:42 a.m.

    Just wait for all the devout Mormons to disavow Elder Jensen's words, make justifications for their policy stance, make an excuse or find reasons to not be compassionate. You'll hear them trot out the old "obeying the laws of the land" but they ignore the weightier matters of the law like mercy.

    Seven out of the first fifteen comments have already dismissed/discredited Elder Jensen.

  • Thanks
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:45 a.m.

    Good to hear a little sanity in this - Thanks Elder Jensen.

    People, it's easy to label them as illegal and treat them like dogs but they are people. The biggest problem is that's it is near impossible to come to the US legally. I have friends who have married people internationally and they new spouses aren't allowed inside the country. It can be a year. The US really needs to get on top of things. Until then, have some compassion for goodness sakes.

  • David W
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:59 a.m.

    All I know about illegal immigration is that if I were in the position that most undocumented workers were in, I would also cross the border illegally and work here as long as I could. I would do whatever it took to build a better life for my family. I am all for immigration reform, but the vitriolic response that these people are sneaky, law-breaking low-downs who deserve to be tossed out of the country for cutting in line is ridiculous.

  • Fed Up Californian
    Feb. 14, 2008 8:59 a.m.

    Elder Jensen and the other clergy need to come to California and see what the ILLEGAL immigrants have done to the state. I welcome all LEGAL immigrants who come here and follow our laws. The whole premise of being here ILLEGALLY is that they broke the law to get here and continue to break the law every day they remain.

    We have high crime, lower standard of living and cna't get emergency rooms help because they flood them for the free medical care. Try waiting for 6 to 8 hours for medical help some day.

  • BD
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:02 a.m.

    I also hope that we consider that thousands upon thousands of sex offenders and drug dealers are crossing our borders also. Potentially, terrorists could be crossing also. Also, I am looking for a second job to pay for medical bills since my insurance forces me to pay 20%. I wonder how many illegals have received FREE health care - and yet I have to work two jobs to cover my family. I do not support mass deportation of illegal immigrants. But I do support the Constitutional right of protecting our borders - and I do not think it to be inhumane to do so. Also, I support giving fines to employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. And I do not feel it to be non-compassionate to illegal immigrants to do so. The bad thing about this statement is that it will be over-interpreted and given to private interpretation. Elder Jensen said nothing about protecting the border or not, nothing about what employers should do, etc. Thus, in reality I support Elder Jensen's statement - I just think that there are more compassionate ways of dealing with the issue which I already mentioned.

  • MSM
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:11 a.m.

    This is how our Government is working for us; The United States Senate voted to extend Social Security Benefits to Illegal Aliens beginning in 2008. Now, the following are the senators who voted to give illegal aliens Social Security benefits.

    Alaska: Stevens (R)
    Arizona : McCain (R)
    Arkansas : Lincoln (D) Pryor (D)
    California : Boxer (D) Feinstein (D)
    Colorado : Salazar (D)
    Connecticut : Dodd (D) Lieberman (D)
    Delaware : Biden (D) Carper (D)
    Florida : Martinez (R)
    Hawaii : Akaka (D) Inouye (D)
    Illinois : Durbin (D)
    Indiana : Bayh (D) Lugar (R)
    Iowa : Harkin (D)
    Kansas : Brownback (R)
    Lou isiana : Landrieu (D)
    Maryland : Mikulski (D) Sarbanes (D)
    Massachusetts : Kennedy (D) Kerry (D)
    Montana : Baucus (D)
    Nebraska : Hagel (R)
    Nevada : Reid (D)
    New Jersey : Lautenberg (D) Menendez (D)
    New Mexico : Bingaman (D)
    New York : Clinton (D) Schumer (D)
    North Dakota : Dorgan (D)
    Ohio : DeWine (R) Voinovich(R)
    Oregon : Wyden (D)
    Pennsylvania : Specter (R)
    Rhode Island : Chafee (R) Reed (D)
    South Carolina : Graham (R)
    Vermont : Jeffords (I) Leahy (D)
    Washington : Cantwell (D) Murray (D)
    Wisconsin : Feingold (D) Kohl (D

  • Ignacio M. Garcia
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:11 a.m.

    It is sad to hear such crass comments against what Elder Jensen said. But unfortunately we are reaping what we sow. For years, Mormon leaders, politicians, etc. have stood on the sidelines of important moral issues, afraid or ambivalent about what position to take. Now, as they come to undertake their great responsibility as followers of Christ, they find that many in their flock do not care to follow. For years, many of us Latter-day Saints implored our leaders to speak out and to change the attitude of society and of our own. For years we were ignored. Now that the Church is doing the right thing, it is so much harder because so many of our people have developed a harsh, uncaring attitude for those who suffer. I hope now that the Church will not be intimidated by such violent reaction and continue to actively speak out against the harshness of the Utah Legislature. It is the only moral thing to do.

  • Re: Anonymous
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:20 a.m.

    You must have cut a pretty dashing figure in the 1960s when you forced that blatant lawbreaker Rosa Parks from her seat on the bus.

  • tenx
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:16 a.m.

    My religion teaches to honor and obey the rule of the land. Therefore I support legal immigration. Having traveled and worked all over the world I am aware that there are more people wanting to immigrate to the USA than we can accomodate. Thus we have quotas to control the number that can immigrate. I have compassion for the Filipino, who at this moment is standing in a long long line in front of the embassy in Manila, in the hot sun, seeking his life long dream to immigrate to the USA and upon submitting his papers is told that he will be approved in 12-15 years. His grandfather fought with the Americans on Bataan and never received recognition or the renumeration that was promised to him. Still he will wait it out and come legally, bringing perfect English, a college diploma and a desire to be an American Citizen. How about some compassion for him and others like him and less for the ones who break into our coutry and demand their rights and burn our flag????

  • Mickotis
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:20 a.m.

    The 12th A of F says We believe in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law. ILLEGALS are not doing this, hence the word illegal. Wake up Bro. Jensen, they are a cancer to our economy and country.

  • The Raven
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:26 a.m.

    Is the LDS Church encouraging illegal immigration? I must admit, it sounds like it. Last year Lou Dobbs criticized the LDS Church for encouraging illegal immigration. The Church and the Deseret News complained he was being unfair and the Church didn't encourage illegal immigration. Now we are being told to have "compassion" and to do nothing to discourage illegal immigration. Am I missing something here? Does the Church support illegal immigration or not? If so, what other laws can also be ignored by Church members (and others for that matter)? "Compassion" is a warm fuzzy word that doesn't deal with the problem very well. Illegal immigration is illegal and wrong. It's time the legislature did something about it and society's leaders at all levels recognize the "people" are sick of illegal immigration!

  • Pretty Sad
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:33 a.m.

    Its pretty sad when you enter an LDS temple and see people in there who have broken the law by illegal immigration, identity theft, etc. (I know this as a fact because they are members in my stake), yet a man who drinks a cup of coffee is barred from entering. Which is the greater sin??? If the LDS church wants to change the 13th article of faith, maybe they should also look at some of the other rules, so that we don't come across as looking "stupid" when you really think about it.

  • LDS Republican voting Democrat
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:12 a.m.

    Once again the Republicans legislatve majority and one Democrat on the Hill have shown their true colors. I want to thank the handful of Republicans and all but one Democrat for voting against this law.

    You are the true followers of Christ's message of "love one another...", you are the true humanitarians, and I promise that I will be voting for more Democrats to help bring back respect and dignity to our State House and Senate.

    Please forgive me for not opening my eyes sooner.

  • bottom looking up
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:17 a.m.

    Does the LDS church show any compassion to those of us who have had our social security numbers usurped by ILLEGAL aliens? Does it take care of debts incurred and crimes committed in our names? Does it straighten out our credit for us?

    Compassion should first go to the law abiding CITIZEN and then to the alien who broke the law to get here.

  • Stewart
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:22 a.m.

    So we are accused of inviting illegal immigration? That may be true, but if so are we stuck with them forever? When your house party is filled with party crashers do you not have the right to call the police to remove them? The Catholic and LDS churches wish to continue to enable a bad situation for the rest of the citizens. Illegal immigration is not a "moral issue" it is a political, ethnocentric, cheap labor issue.

    Enablers always use compassion, sympathy, and love to justify their continued enabling of the addict, and Utah is addicted to cheap labor and increasing the number of consumers to buy stuff. Illegal immigration is immigration anarchy, and very short sighted economic policy. The Utah legislature has every "moral" right to act in defense of the taxpayers. In fact it would be immoral to act in favor of the Church and not the taxpayers since the taxpayer are paying the bill for illegal immigrants.

    By the way has the LDS Church rescinded that pesky 12th Article of Faith?

  • Kevin Taylor
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:29 a.m.

    Before my fellow LDS members find fault in Elder Jensen, they should read other parts of his talk quoted in the other local paper: "While repeating the mantra that the LDS church generally takes no position on political issues, Jensen noted that immigration was not strictly a political issue but a moral and ethical one. And as such, he said, he was not simply speaking for himself or even for the Quorum, a group of Mormon leaders who act as church emissaries.
    "I was assigned to come here by the First Presidency of the church," he said, referring to the church's three most senior leaders, including LDS Church President Thomas S. Monson."
    So, while you honor obey and sustain the law, you may want to consider the advice of the leaders of the Church. Are there any among you who now want to ask President Monson, "What is it about the word 'illegal' that you don't understand?" If so, I recommend that you look into your own hearts, not Elder Jensen's or President Monson's.
    Thank you Elder Jensen and President Monson.

    Signed,

    LDS Service Missionary assigned to serve in one of 63 Spanish speaking units in Salt Lake Valley.

  • Patriot
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:30 a.m.

    Somebody is confused about legal and illegal immigration. That same someone is also too worried about offending others of his own faith in some other part of the world. What price do we have to pay for the image of the church? I wonder when we'll get someone calling for compassion for the stolen birth right of our children? I wonder when someone will call for compassion for all of us who have our income stolen legally by government only to be re-distributed to those who invaded our country and dropped their kids on us to take care of. Compassion is a fuzzy word but the implications are clear and the conference participants and art work come from the open borders pro-illegal, appeasing, pandering and possibly racist side of the argument. As a nation, America has been more than compassionate already. We have fed, clothed educated and healed millions of illegals. We are now asking that our laws be enforced and upgrated to stop an invasion that has crippled California and Arizona to the point that they are losing their culture and land to foreign invaders. Enough is Enough! Our legislators need to act now! This year!

  • wrz
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:35 a.m.



    Oh, but it has taken a position. It says so in the Articles of faith... something about "obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." Illegal immigration is... well, breaking the law.

  • Thank you, Elder Jensen
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:36 a.m.

    What wonderful advice: "Meet an undocumented person. Come to know their family." I have an undocumented friend. Although he is trapped in a low-wage job through a temp agency because his employer is afraid to hire him full time, he pays his taxes. Whether or not others would agree, in his mind he was confronted with the decision between crossing a border without proper documentation, or providing for his children. Call him a criminal if you will, but his motive was pure. He works hard. He is compassionate. He often helps people without compensation. He did not take anyone's job--he took the job nobody wanted. He is a benefit to our community. We would do better for ourselves to provide him a pathway to citizenship than to make life so unbearable for him that he is forced to return hopeless to his poverty.

  • Freeman Loveslife
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:38 a.m.

    The Church has spoken through Elder Jensen. The discussion is over. Its time for faithful members of the legislature to bow their heads and say yes.. Although I find the puppet like behavior of the faithful LDS members of the legislature distasteful, I am in agreement with the Churchs position on the issues surrounding illegal immigration. After allowing or enticing people to come here with a wink and a nod now were all indignant that they came. I think taking draconian action is not the answer. We need to humanely facilitate citizenship for the honest hard working folks who are here, get rid of or lock up the criminals, secure the borders and implement a national identity system. I can not believe that in this computer age we can not have a fool prove identification system making it virtually impossible to obtain employment or government benefits without citizenship. Without jobs or benefits there would be no incentive to come illegally

  • wrz
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:44 a.m.



    Let's see... we know they are sneaky. They sneak across the border. As for law-breaking... well doesn't that speak for itself?

  • Rob M.
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:47 a.m.

    If I were in Mexico, without possibility, and with a family I would do the same as so many others have done. I also find it sad that people in the United States feel that the undocumented workers are the problem. We are the problem. We hire them, we want cheep products. Some employers hire undocumented workers and help them find a better life. Most however hire them for one reason, greed.

    There are solutions, but only if we see understand the real problem.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 14, 2008 10:49 a.m.

    The compassion isn't for the undocumented workers. It is for their children.

  • What are they really saying?
    Feb. 14, 2008 11:02 a.m.

    To my understanding, these church leaders have never said they condone law breaking. So why are we putting words in their mouths? All they are saying is that if our representatives tried to get to know some of these people, the majority of them are good natured people who love their families and want to contribute to our society. We voted these people into office because they have a brain, hopefully, to come up with solutions to difficult problems. I think most of us would agree that not a laws are right at all times. Segregation was legal, and many people in favor of it, until that law was changed, thankfully! Are these church leaders saying it's okay to break the law? Or are they just trying to urge our representatives to be compassionate and use their brains when they are in a position to make or change laws that have an impact on human lives? I am sure there can be compromises made, solutions found to help this crisis, and I'm sure they won't please everyone. But let's try and forget about ourselves and try and help these people. Try and find solutions, instead of complaints!

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 14, 2008 11:06 a.m.

    Lets not read into Elder Jensen's words here... We can honor the Rule of Law and still show compassion. "Getting to know their families" is not a bad idea. Become their freinds, encourage them to obey our contries laws, get their home address in their country, help them and their family back to their country (maybe the Church can help with the airfare or comfortable bus travel??) Write your new freinds, send them job skill training books in their language, send them Christmas cards, Birthday cards, heck, you could even send some money for those events. Just make sure they are together as a family in their home country!! Then write the heads of state for their respective countries and tell them to develop their country's Entrepreneurial spirit and export Products and Services instead of People!! And please, please, PLEASE keep them away from Network Marketing or MLM ventures which suck the money from 99.9% of the poor and give it to the .01% of the Rich!!

  • Re: Pretty Sad - 9:33am
    Feb. 14, 2008 11:18 a.m.

    Are you serious? The First Presidency put out a statement a couple of years ago saying that immigration status is not part of qualifying for the temple. For that matter, pretty much anything short of sex crimes or murder won't disqualify someone for the temple.

    Sure they are breaking the law - just like I go 75mph in a 65 mph zone on I-15, or when a number of other people fail to turn their turning signal to change lanes. You'll find the majority of LDS temple goers to be lawbreakers when if you include such petty traffic laws and ridiculous, outdated immigration laws.

    For all those who don't like the church's admonition to be compassionate - leave. The church doesn't need compassionate apostates. I find more atheists with bigger hearts than some Mormons.

  • Robo
    Feb. 14, 2008 11:30 a.m.

    I don't think he was encouraging illegal immigration or saying that something doesn't need to be done, I think he was just saying that it is possible for mercy to be a part of justice. The system is obviously broken and needs fixed. I think he was just encouraging some compassion in developing the fix. I, for one, believe that part of the fix is to remove the incentive to come here illegally (probably the most effective being to make it impossible to get a job if you aren't here legally) and to make the procedure for immigrating legally more expedient.

  • John Reynolds
    Feb. 14, 2008 11:38 a.m.

    Elder Jensen must remember that his ancestors, like mine, came here legally, and spoke English and became Americans. The issue here is the law Elder Jensen !

  • AC
    Feb. 14, 2008 11:39 a.m.

    Thanks Elder Jensen and all others who are willing to stand up for decency for all mankind. I want my voice to be heard also and not just the negative, hate-slayers. How can I help?

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 14, 2008 11:52 a.m.

    Rosa Parks was a citizen of the US and protected under the laws as a resident. Comparing illegal entry and identity theft is sad.

    The reason why it's hard to get permission for legal immigration is simple. There are already to many illegal people here. A country can only absorb so many before it affects the standard of living and workers rights.

    MSM: That's not a majority of the senate and would not of passed.

  • 2 bits
    Feb. 14, 2008 12:21 p.m.

    I think those saying, "The church is enocouraging illegal immigration", are jumping to conclusions. All he said was, "Have compassion".

    In my mind, the best way to show compassion for them is to help them go back and start over legally. My friends wife had to go back to Honduras to clear up an immigration issue and she is back now and so glad she doesn't have to look over her shoulder and wonder if she is legal anymore.

    If we think "being compassionate" is letting them live here as second-class almost-citizens who can only do the jobs we don't want and have to live every day with the fear that they could be split from their families at the whim of the government... what kind of existence is that?

    Personally I would want to get legal no matter what it cost. Helping someone get legal is the best thing I could do for them, ignoring them as long as they don't rock-the-boat isn't compasionate. Turning a blind eye to those currently here illegally ISN'T compassion. The status quo [don't ask, don't tell... unless your at the wrong place at the wrong time, then your gone] isn't compassionate.

  • Cal Jones
    Feb. 14, 2008 12:16 p.m.

    Do you think local religious leaders could muster a small amount of compassion for the parents of 100 children who are raped and murdered annually by illegal aliens? Or the thousands of people whose identity is stolen and their lives subsequently ruined? How about some compassion for the families of drug addicted teans who got hooked on drugs that came here from Mexico on in the backpacks of illegal aliens?
    While they are at it maybe they could shed a few tears for all the construction workers who used to make $15 per hour and who are now forced to work for $8. Where is the compassion for those whose lives have been and are being destroyed every day by "hard working people looking for a better life"?
    Where is the compassion for the school teachers in Utah who now must teach a classroom full of illegal children who don't even speak English while trying to maintain a decent standard for the children who have a right to be in the classroom? If all these religions are so concerned why don't they foot the bill for them all?

  • Mike597
    Feb. 14, 2008 12:23 p.m.

    Well, so much for the 12th Article of Faith ...

  • Hey
    Feb. 14, 2008 12:33 p.m.

    free health care,free dental, no taxes, housing assistance, being illegal sounds better than being a citizen.

  • MwM
    Feb. 14, 2008 12:36 p.m.

    I agree, we should treat them with compassion, as we lead them back to the border and then ask them to come back as soon as they can "legally". What is compassionate about my income dwindling because of taxes to keep them fed, clothed, educated, my health care costs sky rocketing, and crime spiraling out of control. How many illegals are in our prison system we are supporting Elder Jensen? We don't have to be cruel, but we do have to be fair, first to the people of Utah. Legislators, please remember what way you are facing and who you really should report to, I don't think it is South of you and just down the hill.

  • Michael
    Feb. 14, 2008 12:50 p.m.

    So, when will the Church revoke the 12th Article of Faith? Additionally, I'd like to know if the Church will be announcing a list of laws that can now be broken without fear of losing one's membership?

    What a joke! I for one, do not support the apparent "message" of Elder Jensen.

  • Well . . .
    Feb. 14, 2008 12:51 p.m.

    It's pret-ty hard for the church to say "illegal immigration is bad" when they had some stuff to clean up too . . .

  • BigPoet
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:03 p.m.

    How about some compassion for the taxpayers?

    Illegal immigrants are taking money out of my wallet when they receive subsidies from many public sources. Far too many are criminals.

    They should obey the laws of the land they are in.

  • BB KLEIN
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:11 p.m.

    The Salt Lake Tribune included this statement by Elder Jensen:

    "I was assigned to come here by the First Presidency of the church," he said, referring to the church's three most senior leaders, including LDS Church President Thomas S. Monson.

    Bottom Line...are you prepared to tell President Monson that he is wrong on this issue?

    I believe the Articles of Faith, but this is a living prophet's directive. I believe they can work together.

    We may not know the solution to the immigration issue, but when my living Prophet says something, I don't question it.

  • Candice
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:14 p.m.

    Kevin Taylor, I am very comfortable asking Pres. Monson "what part of illegal does he not understand", in an unconfronational way. In fact, I am writing Elder Jensen and copying the Brethern.

    Many people have brought up why this "support" by Elder Jensen is disturbing. How do we justify accepting illegals immigrants to our children. We have them recite The 12th Article of Faith, teach lessons on obeying the laws of the land, integrity, honesty, and inform them that one of the temple recomend questions is "Are you honest in all your dealings"? It's hypocritical!

    This isn't a compasion issue. On a HUMANITARIAN stance...How does everyone feel about there direct and obvious explotation by employers?

  • Disgusted
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:24 p.m.

    Political issue only? Not hardly. It is the law and we don't support the right in this country to pick and choose which laws we will obey. Neither do we nor should we in the Church. Good friends of mine are here legally after doing all that the law forced them to do. Until such time as those laws are changed, my compassion for these people extends up to the border and no further. When a person breaks the law of my country, burns its flag, takes my tax dollars in benefits while contributing nothing financially to the system, refuses to learn English and pushes my country to adapt its language system to suit him, I say NO. Go home and stay there. I have lived abroad in the Orient and certainly did not go there and demand that the Japanese change their system so that I could live there "in English." You adapt to where you legally choose to go, be grateful that they are willing to taker you, or don't go at all.

  • LDS Nonpartisan?
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:27 p.m.

    Wait I thought the church was supposed to be nonpartisan. Especially when its authorities start preaching conflicting views.

    COMPASSION? or OBEY HONOR AND SUSTAIN THE LAW?

    I am sure glad God governs this church and not some of these Ignorgant General Authorities.

  • wrz
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:29 p.m.

  • CaseySee
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:52 p.m.

    To all who want to deport every illegal alien.

    What do you do about their children who are legal? Take them from their parents, send them back with their parents so that they starve? What about the young man or young women who falls in love with a young person who has lived in the USA since they were just a very young child and doesn't know any other country. Tell them that they can't marry or that they can marry, but they can't live together after marriage because the illegal one has to be deported?

    This is the compassion that the church is asking that the legislature consider.

    Also, the legislature (and congress) needs to consider the compassion (not) of using US taxpayers money to pay for the illegal alien's welfare costs, housing costs, etc.

    What is needed is a series of laws and initiatives that address the many causes of illegal aliens: including no work south of the boarder, our own appetite for cheap food, products, services, and such provided by their labor.

    This is not a cut and dried issue. Both sides have legitimate issues and concerns. It will take compassion on all sides.

  • to Karen Smith | 4:31 a.m.
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:58 p.m.

    Your tone and what you say would make sense if history were not what it is. The United States offered Mexico money several times for the land that Utah and other states sits on. Mexico refused to sell. After war where American then took what it wanted by force, America offered money. Which Mexico accepted, only because it knew it couldn't get the land back anyway. In addition to this there are numerious Indian treaties made by the US Government which were later broken when it became apparent that the US wanted the land after all. Given this history of Law breaking by the US, the US needs to be careful not to insist that it holds others to standards which itself was not willing to follow.

    It is highly proper that the United States exercise compassion in this case. Given our history we need to be especially charitable and not hold others to standards which our own country was not willing to follow.

  • Get over yourselves!
    Feb. 14, 2008 1:58 p.m.

    Common people! All of these negative comments must be coming from people who never lifted a hand to help someone else outside of their family. Are you all so concerned about your own wallet that you are willing to forget about people, and are willing to tear apart families? Isn't that what America is all about? Helping the down trodden, poor and afflicted? Let's fix the laws to help these people in a humane way.

    It's a sad day when the people of America are more concerned about their almighty wallet, then a human life. Greed, selfishness and pride are ugly things.

    I'm amused by all the people who claim all our problems are caused by these illegals! They are all criminals? Really? Maybe we need to take a look at ourselves!

  • Interesting
    Feb. 14, 2008 2:13 p.m.

    Its interesting that the church just tightened up their temple recommends: with bar codes; they have to be submitted by the stakes to make them valid, etc. This gives the church greater control on who enters the temple. Yet Elder Jensen feels like our State Legislatures can't do the same type of thing to protect what it holds sacred and precious, namely our American Way of Life. We need this discussed in General Conference because Elder Jensen's comments go against what we have been taught as members.

  • RE: Interesting
    Feb. 14, 2008 2:36 p.m.

    You mean to say that we have been taught to uphold the American Way of life before practicing simple Christianity? How sad.

  • tom
    Feb. 14, 2008 2:49 p.m.

    Mr. Jensen is a true statesman as are most of the leaders of the LDS Church. It is sad there are so few in the legislature that can say the same. If the Church really did have the influence in the legislature that some fear, it would certainly be a more kindly and humane body than it is. They claim to follow LDS teachings, they get elected because of the presumption they are good LDS, but in reality they go against most of the principles of the Church in their catering to special interests.

    Thank you Mr. Jensen and thanks to all the hard working "illegal" immigrants that are the corner stone of the US economy and the only thing standing between us and $10 heads of lettuce.

  • FD
    Feb. 14, 2008 2:52 p.m.

    I met an illegal alien once, when he was driving and hit my car from behind. I would have liked to have gotten to know him and his family, but he gave me a fake name and address, so I'll probably never see him again.

    When we lived in California, my three sisters met an illegal alien who was living down the street. After the unspeakable things he did to them, I don't really have a desire to get to know him or his family. My sisters are still in therapy, struggling with the issues related to being assaulted at such a young age. Only one has remained in the LDS faith.

    Perhaps these church leaders should spend some time with the victims of the illegal alien invasion before making suggestions to be compassionate about them. There is enough anger and frustration that in the coming years this situation could really boil over and get ugly.

  • What would Jesus do?
    Feb. 14, 2008 2:56 p.m.

    Let's step back and ask ourselves, "What would Jesus do?" The woman caught in adultery comes to mind as an appropriate example of a person that had broken a law, which was at that time a criminal law, as well as a spiritual law. Reading Jesus's response to this moral dillemma of exercising compassion and forgiveness versus enforcement of the law is very telling. We all know the result.

    The question continues to come up of how the 10th Article of Faith comes into play in all of this. Fortunately, we have living prophets for just this type of situation. While not speaking on the specifics of the bills, the message from our living prophets has clearly been to exercise compassion, or stated differently, ask what Jesus would do.

  • ME
    Feb. 14, 2008 3:06 p.m.

    You can be a proponent of LEGAL Immigration and have compassion.

    I say the ILLEGAL Immigrants follow the procedure of Repenting for sin/crime. Return to their Countries and do the LEGAL thing and apply for Citizenship here and enter the U.S. Legally after they have fairly stood in line behind those who are trying to do the right thing.

    I can LOVE my Neighbor but if he rips me off I am not going to let it continue to happen and I am going to request justice. Mercy cannot rob Justice.

  • coverup
    Feb. 14, 2008 3:12 p.m.

    Imagine someone stealing your good name : your reputation is ruined ,your credit rating is ruined , your Social Security is frozen , and numerous other tragedies befall you . Each and every illegal alien who uses a phoney SSN is doing this to some citizen without that citizens knowledge . It is called "Identity Theft" and it is a crime even more serious than entering our country illegally . Calling an illegal alien an undocumented worker is the same as calling a burgler an unwanted houseguest .

  • Josh
    Feb. 14, 2008 3:40 p.m.

    You people are Uneducated Fear Mongers! Illegal immigration is illegal due to the Immigration and Nationality Act. It was determined to be a misdemeanor and a Judge would decide if the immigrant would be sent home if caught. I want to remind everyone that most of us choose to commit misdemeanors daily mostly in traffic violations.If you drive 1 mph over the speed limit you are in the same violation as these immigrants. This is why these Ecclesiastical leaders are pleading for people to have compassion and understand them. These people are not and taking your job, do some research.If you were born and raised in America and have not taken advantage of all of the opportunities to help you get as much education as possible shame on you, but guess what, you still can go back to school with government assistance or not, you would rather stay home and complain about the possibilities of others coming to take your job. What happened to the statement on the statue of liberty?cries she with silent lips. Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, Send these, the homeless, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  • Re: What would Jesus do?
    Feb. 14, 2008 3:42 p.m.

    So, in other words, the living prophet now decides which laws can be ignored and which should be obeyed?

    Can I also assume from your response that Jesus is an advocate for the destruction of the United States, a country he had a hand in founding (if we are to believe the Doctrine & Covenants)? Yes, illegal immigration does destroy nations - it was certainly one of the factors that lead to the fall of the Roman Empire.

  • Compassion trumps 12th AoF
    Feb. 14, 2008 3:43 p.m.

    Anyone who says that the obeying the laws of the land trumps compassion would fit just fine as Nazi party member exterminating Jews during the Holocaust. After all, the extermination orders were the "law of the land."

    Sounds like most of the people on this board worship "the law" more than compassion. Sounds like the Pharisees. Oh ye hypocrites!

  • Anoid
    Feb. 14, 2008 3:54 p.m.

    Has anyone thought to put yourself in these illegals shoes? Does anyone know what it's like to live in a 3rd world country, and living in poverty that you are almost begging to stay alive? We say we want them to come here here legally, but to them that is insane to think about, when they can barely feed their families. How can we expect them to be able to pay the fees of coming here legally? Everyone says to deport them and make them come back the legal way. How ridiculous is that when you see their situation! That is not a solution, it's just a reaction.

    We Americans are spoiled and can't understand that sort of poverty. I agree, mercy cannot rob justice, but who made us Gods over these people?

  • Native of America
    Feb. 14, 2008 4:04 p.m.

    TO THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO LEGALIZE YOUR STATUS, PEOPLE WHO ARE MARRY TO AN AMERICAN CITIZENS I ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE A TRIP TO CD. JUAREZ, MEXICO TO SEE HOM MANY OF THOSE WHO APPLY FOR PETITION ARE DENY EVERY DAY, WE WANT TO DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO BE LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES, THE LAWS ARE SO SCREW WE HOPE AND LOOK FOR COMPASION AND SOMEONE WHO CAN MAKE SOME REASONABLE CHANGES.

  • Bombadil
    Feb. 14, 2008 4:11 p.m.

    Just because the bretheren said it doesn't make it true. If you want to get to know some undocumented immigrants, feel free to volunteer at the prison, Arizona for instance supports 4000 mexican nationals to the tune of 100 million dollars a year in their prison system. Do what you like. It's your money, liberty and lifestyle being put on the line.

  • What would Jesus Do?
    Feb. 14, 2008 4:16 p.m.

    Jesus would say, "Go (leave the country),and sin no more".

  • Godwin's Law...
    Feb. 14, 2008 4:12 p.m.

    ...trumps stupid comparisons.

    What is it with the pro-illegal crowd? Whenever someone says anything that even slightly shines a negative light on illegal immigrants that person is automatically branded a "Nazi". Can't you do any better than that?

    Speaking of hypocrisy, why don't YOU show some compassion and give your social security number to these fine, upstanding "guests" so they can get a job?

    You seem to be okay with them stealing the identities of other people, why not volunteer yours so they don't have to steal?

  • TO AC
    Feb. 14, 2008 4:20 p.m.

    PLEASE MAKE YOUR VOICE HEAR AND GET INVOLVE IN THIS ISSUE THERE IS A LOT YOU WILL DO IF YOU ONLY MAKE YOUR VOICE HEAR!

  • What would Jesus Do
    Feb. 14, 2008 4:33 p.m.

    I would again ask "What would Jesus Do?" A law was broken. If Jesus were ruling on the earth right now, and this situation were placed before him, would he send a family back to Mexico, where the cost of the journey would leave them with nothing, forced to live in a cardboard box and die of starvation? Or would he acknowledge that a law was broken, administer a consequence commensurate with the crime, and afterwards say "Go and sin no more."

    I recognize that if illegal immigrants commit crimes, that is a different story, and there is an issue of safety and protection. But what about the people that, but for entering illegally, are keeping the law the best they can? Aren't these the people that our living prophets are talking about when we need to consider treating them with compassion?

    I'm afraid that if we rely solely on the 10th Article of Faith in this discussion, and ignore the encouragement of our living prophets, we will be following a dead prophet and not a living prophet, as the people that remained in Nauvoo did, failing to follow the living prophet, Brigham Young.

  • Gus
    Feb. 14, 2008 6:03 p.m.

    Even though Elder Jensen requested that we "measure twice and cut once", he's not saying that we shouldn't pass laws that deter illegals from living here. It doesn't mean that we allow our state's laws to be trampled upon. He's just saying let's be sure we're doing the right thing, maintaining an attitude of compassion toward illegals, and then let's go ahead and act.

  • plumloko
    Feb. 14, 2008 6:02 p.m.

    As children of God aren't we supposed to abide by the law?

    What your saying is that its OK for other children of God to break the law?

    What sort of child of God are you when you blatantly disobey the law?

    Seems contradictory to me.

  • Saddened by the hate
    Feb. 14, 2008 6:21 p.m.

    I'm shocked at how quick many LDS jumpp to criticize the brethren the minute a general authority proposes something that rightwingers disagree with. I guess that makes clear where your loyalty is. I think the word in the scriptures is "stiffnecked."

    Elder Jensen isn't talking about obeying or disobeying the law, he's talking to the legislature MAKING the law. The men who decide what counts as LEGAL or ILLEGAL. He's saying we should have compassion in CRAFTING the law in the first place. Why is that so hard for the xenophobes in Utah to understand?

    The fact is, we have an unjust system here. We want it both ways: we want cheap produce and cheap labor, but we also want excuses to indulge in the hatred of people not like us. Our economy encourages immigration (illegal and otherwise), then we punish people that react to that encouragement. We need to change the law to reflect economic reality and show compassion.

    Shame on racist Utahns for using immigrants as scapegoats for all their social ills. And shame on Mormons with the audacity to counsel the brethren on how to interpret the Article of Faith.

  • Lee
    Feb. 14, 2008 6:33 p.m.

    This is the 5th year that some of these bills (repeal of in-state tuition and drivers licenses) have been considered. So it appears that the legislature has measured 5 times and is preparing to finally make a cut. I guess they're going the extra mile.

  • factual indeed
    Feb. 14, 2008 6:47 p.m.

    I think the LDS people who read this need to take a deep breath and listen to our church leaders. Soften your heart and think about the issue again. Elder Jensen did not say that we can't enforce the laws; I hope we do. He said to take into account the context in the *way* we enforce it.

    What happens to people who are caught and deported, right now? If they are deported, they often spend time in immigration prisons, with worse conditions and without the rights that American murderers get--these are people who mostly jut wanted to feed their families. And yet people say there's no room for compassion.

    It's really frustrating that despite the complexity of the problem, people want to lay all the blame and all the suffering for it on the illegals themselves, who are the least guilty. What about the fact that as a country we liked cheap fruit so much that we couldn't bring ourselves to guard the borders? What about the many businesses which have time and time again employed them, without feeling any guilt at all? Those of you without sin on this issue, cast the first stone.

  • Re: Godwin's Law
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:13 p.m.

    Address the question. Do you claim that obeying the laws of the land is a morally superior and morally the more important thing to do than having compassion in lawmaking? If you do, fine by you.

    I never said I was okay with identity theft. Any serious immigration reform should include provisions for persons to be readily identifiable and not be so afraid of US police authorities that they have to commit identity theft. Most posters here are not "pro-illegal immigrant."

    We can enforce the laws on the books, build a wall, penalize employers, institute temporary work visas, get immigrants out of the shadows, stop identity theft, pay taxes (and get tax returns too).

  • To Ignacio Garcia
    Feb. 14, 2008 9:29 p.m.

    Well said my friend.
    I hope that we can become more educated and involve in this issue without any harsh but with the right knoledge upon us.

  • Tiffanie A.
    Feb. 14, 2008 11:10 p.m.

    Premises: 1) Migration, moving from one geographic location to another, is not a moral issue; 2) Immigration laws are civil, secondary laws of order, not morally based constitutional laws.
    Why then are so many Utahns trying to make a moral crime out of a civil infraction? (Who appreciate tickets for rolling through a stop sign?)
    That reasoning is a red flag that something else, is at the heart of the matter and not the fact that Latinos are "breaking visa laws". Based on my experience, generally Utahns are really uncomfortable about having to share their schools, supermarkets, roads with darker or "ethnic" looking, Spanish speaking people. If you're uncomfortable with people who don't share your exact same culture and looks, look inside yourself and decide what is it that REALLY bothers you about immigration. At this point few if any people are willing to accept that half of Latinos are in fact, residing legally in the US. The beauty of ineffective civil law is it can be CHANGED to reflect reality (our growing economy needing specialized and low-skilled laborers; we simply cannot man all of our business ideas with only US citizens.) Don't confuse crime/sin with infraction/amorality.

  • John Lambert
    Feb. 15, 2008 1:28 a.m.

    Any church member who tries to denounce the leaders of the church for coming out in favor of the undocumented immigrants ought to consider why they are still in the church.
    Some people have gone so far in trying to preach that the church should oppose illegal immigrants I really think they should be brought before church disciplinary councils and tried for their membership.
    Stop calling them criminals. THEY ARE NOT CRIMINALS. Is someone who was brought here as a two year old child a criminal.
    Your pay is falling not because there are undocumented immigrants but because you have colaborated with the employers in deneying them regular immigrant status. If all immigrant were under regular status, than the minimum wage law would be enforceable and they would not fear to join unions, strike, or quit low paying jobs. You are blaming the victims of the exploitation for its existence. You have the exact same rhetoric flowing from your mouth that was used by anti-slavery people who wanted to keep slavery out of where they lived to keep wages high but had no problem with people having slaves elsewhere.

  • John Lambert
    Feb. 15, 2008 1:30 a.m.

    Too many people in the church seem to have nothing but hate for undocumented immigrants. What would you do if you knew someone in your ward had come to the United States without documents. How would you treat them. If you can not reach out to them with love and concern then how will you act.
    Remember that Elder Uchtdorf fled East Germany illegally. He never recieved legal permission to leave, so are you going to refuse to sustain him since he is obviously an illegal emmigrant, never having recieved an amnesty for his illegal emmigration.

  • John Lambert
    Feb. 15, 2008 1:40 a.m.

    Anonymous at 7:44 has such hate towards other children of God that I figure he must have spent too much time wathing the news and too little reading the scriptures.
    This idea that all undocumented immigrants go around stealing people's identity is the type of devisive rhetoric that we do not need. We have a choice, the church can be an inclusive organization that will grow. Or we can take an attitude towards the over 10% of the US population that has undocumented immigrants in their family that will stop the church from having any ability to grow among such people.

  • John Lambert
    Feb. 15, 2008 1:39 a.m.

    Dug,
    If you are LDS and hold to your belief than why do you contradict the teachings of the church leaders? Why are you so unwilling to share the blessings you have with others? Why do you think you have such a claim on God's blessings to us that you can deney it to others? And how can you live with yourself exploiting the cheap labor of immigrants in what you buy but being unwilling to give them any rights?
    To respond to the person who accuses church members of doing nothing to help those in under developed countries, what are these things called Church Humanitarian Services and the Perpetual Education Fund anyway?

  • John Lambert
    Feb. 15, 2008 1:47 a.m.

    Too many people forget about the families that would be broken up if we were to mass deport undocumented immigrants.
    And what about all the church members who continued to practice polygamy after laws were passed against us. Joseph F. Smith had the audacity to introduce two of his wives to President Taft, not only breaking the law in doing so but in the most public way possible.
    Drinking coffee is breaking the laws of God, crossing international borders is breaking the laws of man.
    I still wonder though how people know that there are undocumented immigrants in their stake.

  • Boyd
    Feb. 15, 2008 8:19 a.m.

    There are lots of illegals here. They live 10+ to apartments with no furniture. They're always mad. They came for a piece of the American dream and find that there is only one pie and their piece is too small and getting smaller.

    Make all the laws you want, they ignore the present ones, why would they listen to new ones?

    Go down to the border at say, El Paso Texas and look across. Why would anyone stay there when just on the other side they can see a better something that will never exist in Mexico.

    Get Mexico to get it's collective head out of the sand. Quit supporting their drug cultivation, that money is killing Mexico. Get the Mexican government to allow foreign investment in Mexico. Make Mexico a place where jobs are created and not illiterate people are born with no hope.

  • Judy
    Feb. 15, 2008 8:51 a.m.

    John Lambert You are condemning anyone and everyone who doesn't see things in your way. I really don't like reading your malarkey! You are too full of yourself and seem to hate for others who don't think like you. You have twisted mind!

  • John McCain
    Feb. 15, 2008 8:51 a.m.

    I know what to do!

    Let's give free citizenship to criminals!

    Let's not stop there!

    How about American citizenship for people still in Mexico!

    How about American citizenship for terrorists!

    I'm John McCain, and I have to admit I approve of this sad message.

  • Have a Heart (in AZ)
    Feb. 15, 2008 9:09 a.m.

    What's with all the hatred from the Inspector Javert types who worship The Law of the Land more than the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

    Could one of you good LDS folks please explain what Christ meant when He taught that *there is no greater law* than loving God and loving your neighbor? What did Paul mean when he said that without charity, we are nothing? What did Moroni mean that without charity, we cannot be saved?

    The comment about having compassion for the Gadianton Robbers was priceless. Thanks for the chuckle--though a sad one. I honestly pity anyone and everyone who really believes that the Gadianton Robbers are building and painting our houses, cleaning our streets, maintaining our public spaces, building our roads, and so forth.

    You really need to MEET some of these people, as I have. Before you do, be forewarned: You might learn they're human beings, too! So getting to know some of them might cause you to lose your blind hatred and prejudice.

    I guess it depends on what you value more!

  • Have a Heart (in AZ) II
    Feb. 15, 2008 9:27 a.m.

    Another thing: I know and recognize that some illegals do commit aggravated misdemeanors and felonies--from ID theft and drug dealing to rape and murder. THEY should be dealt with according to the law. Deport THEM--straight to a Mexican prison, and throw away the key. Compassion doesn't, and can't, excuse those crimes. No argument here!

    Most illegals, however, are just here to try to feed their families. Fine them if you must--and require their employers to help them pay the majority of the cost--for the "crime" of crossing the border without legal permission. But don't treat ALL of them as if they were hard-core criminals and terrorists. That's not true, and it speaks ill of LDS members that some would do so. (I hope fanatical AZ State Rep. Russell Pearce, who will never have my vote in this life, somehow gets this message.)

    Compassion doesn't mean OVERLOOKING the law. It just means you recognize that there are greater moral principles than legal statutes and higher authorities than political bodies and their leaders. You don't paint everybody with the same brush and you remember to be kind and charitable. Especially if that's what your church actually teaches!

  • John Lambert
    Feb. 15, 2008 9:39 a.m.

    People should stop using the rhetoric of legal immigration and speaking English. The immigration laws in the 1880s allowed anyone who showed up to come in. Yet how many people have ancestors who stowed away on ships.
    We used to have a member of our high coucil who had both his parents come over from Italy as stowaways. Should we not have baptized him and instead insisted that he go back to Italy.
    I am not sure that Elder Jesnen's immigrant ancestors learned English. For years the public schools in St. Louis and Cincinnatti were giving instruction in German. The Swedish in Utah actively advocated for holding church meetings in their native language. Polish papers were pubished in many places in the United States. At one point Germans advocated for getting German made an official language in the United States, and how legal were my Mayflower ancestors, settling without even asking the previous residents permission and totally imposing their own laws on the system that was there before?

  • RE:John Lambert
    Feb. 15, 2008 9:47 a.m.

    For you information most of our ancestors were English! I am tired of reading your rhetoric. You are a racist and a bigot!

  • To John Lambert
    Feb. 15, 2008 10:04 a.m.

    I'm a bit familiar with what you're talking about. The Germans came here and settled a large swath of the countryside and had their own schools where everything was taught in German. They were advocating a New Germany here. The idea never caught hold and today all that is left is the german names on things. My grandmother spoke only german until she graduated from high school. Wish those advocating their own micro-climate would see how foolish that works out over the years.
    It's OK to immigrate but for the right reasons. When you do, adopt you new homeland or pay the consequences that come with not doing that.

  • Confusing?
    Feb. 15, 2008 10:16 a.m.

    I am wondering which laws can we as members of the LDS church break and still obtain a temple recommend? What happened to the the law of the land?#


    # 12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

    However, that is old doctrine by Joseph Smith.
    Many of his teaching are questionable.

  • To 1:58 p.m. poster Feb 14
    Feb. 15, 2008 10:12 a.m.

    Can you please cite your source for Mexico refusing to sell land to the U.S.? (Google isn't helping me here.) According to the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo, the U.S. insisted on the Mexican territory where many of the Western states now sit *as a condition of the treaty.* They also gave $15M to Mexico for war reparations. Texas voted to join the U.S. several years after declaring its independence from Mexico, so it wasn't part of the deal.

    Are you referring to negotiations prior to the war? Or are you confusing this with *Napoleon's* refusal to sell the Western Territory while *he* had control of the land? There didn't seem to be much room for offers one way or the other after the U.S. forces marched into Mexico and took possession of Mexico City and several other cities and territories during the war itself. (A bit of historical detail that might interest some of you borders-are-sacred people...) And Mexico *did* sell land in the Gadsden Purchase--*after the war.*

    Could you please enlighten me? THANKS!

  • John Lambert
    Feb. 15, 2008 10:23 a.m.

    A few comments.
    First off, I want to say that I think Joseph F. Smith was an upright and moral man for acknowledging his wives and do not fault him. However, everytime he did so he broke the law.
    Second, I do not support polygamy.
    Third, there is a much higher crime rate in Detroit than anywhere in Utah but we have many fewer undocumented immigrants.
    Fourth, I once was assulted by a legal immigrant but I do not go around claiming they are all criminals.
    Fifth, the Roman Empire's downfall is that it mistreated its immigrants, not that it had them. The Goths only rebelled because they were so mistreated by the Romans.
    Sixth, it was the Romanized Germans and not the truly other Huns that destroyed the Roman Empire.
    Seventh, remeber Mexico is the number one source of legal immigration.
    Eighth, many immigrants just overstay their visas, so they never snuck anywhere. Do not make blanket assumptions.
    Ninth, why don't we just make labor another commodity that moves under NAFTA. We destroy Mexico's agricultural industry with our cheap imports and then complain when the people move across the border to get jobs.

  • SB
    Feb. 15, 2008 11:18 a.m.

    It is convenient for many of those posting here to find a scapegoat in the "illegals" here for their insurance rates, job status, crime rates, identity theft and so forth. Please don't be so shortsighted as to not consider the multitude of layers in each of these complex social issues. A sound-bite from a politician or a media source doesn't mean it encapsulates the entire truth. For example, you might be surprised to know that the taxes paid by illegal immigrants for sale of goods (groceries, gasoline, clothing), rent (which are built into property taxes), utilities, etc. and for their employers who must pay income taxes, medicare, social security for their workers provide billions of dollars to this country. Most federal aid programs (contrary to many statements here) are unavailable to undocumented persons. Or, for a simple example - studies show that part of the increase in crime rates can be traced to families not sitting down to dinner together. My point is that to simply point the finger at undocumented persons is to just find the easiest scapegoat to kick without exploring the whole picture.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 15, 2008 11:22 a.m.

    ahhh ahhha! To church members. We are here to stay for those of you who don't want us here.Ahhhhaaaaaa!

  • The costs of immigrants
    Feb. 15, 2008 11:53 a.m.

    23-25% of the total us prison population is made up of illegal immigrants. Each of the 500,000-550,000 illegal aliens are costing tax payers over $30,000 each year then add the cost to hospitals in health care that they don't pay for.

  • valery
    Feb. 15, 2008 11:55 a.m.

    You SB,
    You are way out of line. You need to go research everything a bit better.

    I think it is time to send all VIKINGS home too!

  • SB
    Feb. 15, 2008 2:47 p.m.

    Valery,

    I will send you some national studies, if you would like. I actually made my comments after having done research, not on relying on the media or my next door neighbor to be an expert. Every thing I said above is subject of research by private or public organizations reasearch and study. That said, I recognize that there will always be conflicting conclusions or results, depending on the specific focus of the research. It happens in every kind of field of study. What I advocated, and still do, is that before you blame all social problems on one thing (in this case illegal immigrants) ...make sure that you are getting all the pieces to the puzzle, so that you can act reasonably and take action based on reality and not on some whim of opinion.

  • Decency
    Feb. 15, 2008 4:15 p.m.

    SB, thank you for the valid points. I agree with you whole heartedly!

    Valery, what planet did you come from?

    The more I think about this, and the more I read these comments, the less validity the anti-illegal immigrants have. They are just sounding like a bunch of childish selfish racist hate mongers. Those siding on compassion make much more sense and have a much stronger argument. Love and compassion will always beat out hate, selfishness, greed, and MAN made laws that are flawed and need to be fixed to account for human decency.

    My hope is that we have decent, intelligent and compassionate representatives that will listen to their conscience to do what is decent, moral and FAIR to help these people in need. And not listen to those who hate and only think of themselves and act like children.

  • RE: SB
    Feb. 15, 2008 4:22 p.m.

    SB, sounds like you're the one with your head on straight. Curious--People who actually take the time to learn about the issue from *factual* sources instead of listening to the they're-conquering-our-culture/deport-all-13-million/make-'em-speak-English-or-else hysteria almost have no place in this debate. It's about who can shout the loudest and create the most fear. Not facts. Not reason. Not humanity. And certainly not compassion.

    I wonder if this was what it was like in pre-Nazi Germany? The rhetoric sounds WAY too much like it for my comfort! Have some human decency, people.

  • Laughing
    Feb. 15, 2008 5:22 p.m.

    Looks like some cages have been rocked and rattled on here. I don't care for BS from SB. And Decency! you have none. I'm totally amazed at how suddenly these blogs have been taken over by illegals...GOOD GRIEF!

  • RE: Laughing
    Feb. 15, 2008 6:18 p.m.

    What--being compassionate is suddenly now being taken over by illegals? Quite a leap of logic, though I'd expect little less from any group of people who think it's a wise use of taxpayer money to try to round up and deport 13 million human beings, 90% of whom will be back within the month. Whatever. That makes whatever we're doing in Iraq look like clockwork by comparison! Trying decency and compassion for a change seems perfectly rational to me.

  • dp
    Feb. 16, 2008 12:24 a.m.

    Millions of Mexicans illegally living in the US and people really think they all should go "home?" Do you really think that none of them were prompted by the Spirit to leave Mexico. You really believe that? How could that possibly be true! Have you ever met any illegals - have you asked them about the divine inspiration they felt to move here and make a better life for generations to come.
    God inspired my ancestors to leave England and move to Mexico (now Utah) - why wouldn't he inspire Mexicans today to move to the US? Let them stay - secure the border - really secure it - think DMZ -but let them stay. Mercy is needed here, not justice.

  • An American Citizen
    Feb. 16, 2008 12:43 a.m.

    i support an inmigration Reform ..

  • Justin
    Feb. 16, 2008 8:17 a.m.

    To dp,

    No, I absolutely DO NOT think that a single illegal immigrant was prompted or inspired by the spirit to enter this country illegally. The spirit of God is the spirit of righteousness and goodness, NOT the spirit of violating the law.

    Just because your ancestors were "inspired" to leave
    England hundreds of years ago, doesn't mean we should accept anyone who claims to be "inspired" to come to our country. Imagine how "inspired" many Islamic Fundamentalists could be, coming in here with who knows what strapped to their inspired bodies!?

    We live in a VERY different world than your ancestors did. We cannot afford to give the "mercy" you claim to want for illegals without robbing from those who are legal citizens and who followed the laws entering the country.

    I liked Mitt Romney's nuanced solutions to this problem. He was right - being here illegally should NEVER give a person an advantage over those who are trying to follow the law in gaining citizenship.

  • barryrichfield
    Feb. 16, 2008 9:29 a.m.

    I see the arguements , there here so let them stay. Have compassion. Most are from Mexico as if that justifies then being excused. Or that you will break up their families, That the Immigration system needs fixing. It is unfair. That God loves all his children , therefore have mercy on those here, it isn't any of their fault? WE are being unfair to them. If you don't have compassion for them, then you have no compassion!

    Much of this is shear nonsence.

    1. The Law allows a greater number to come from Mexico Legally, so how is it fair to have more than their legal share come?
    2. How does those that come illegally and allowed to stay and be harboured help those that wait in line to come legally? Where is the compassion for those that wait in line?
    3. If you allow those illegal to be come legal, you then justify them to be able to move their respective family members to USA ahead of all those waitng in line to come legally. How is that compassion for those that have waited 10-15 years legally.
    4. My wife has waited 6 years for legal Citizenship.

  • Barryrichfield
    Feb. 16, 2008 9:47 a.m.

    My wife has waited 6 years to get her legal Citizenship.

    WE jumped through all the hoops. Good or bad . All this discussion isn't about changing the immigration law. Or you would address it. All this discussion is about how to make legal those that broke the law.How to reward them.

    Those here seem to forget compassion was shown a little more than 15 years ago when amnesty was given to that group of illegals. From then on those coming were to come through the front door.

    Surprise, they continued to come through the back door.12-20,000,000 of them. Now you want to have compassion on.

    Let me suggest to you there are still people waiting in line that have yet to arrive legally from back the 1st time amnesty was given. They still wait their respective turn. Where is your compassion for them.They are every bit as hungry, seperated from their family, living poor.

    What of those from Asia, Africa waiting, how is it fair that one country has a large share legally, then 10 times the amount of them come over the border illegally, while the rest do not have the same opportunity.

    Punish those legally waiting? Compassion?

  • barryrichfield
    Feb. 16, 2008 10:03 a.m.

    I have visited 3rd world countries, have helped more than a few members and non members to go to college, build houses, paid for many operations, taken a wheelchair to the Philippines for a girl with no legs, sent enough money to pay for 80 surgeries. I have visited the saints wards there in those poor countries. I see little compassion being extented for those that legaly stay in their own country. They are poor, have few things, no employment opportunities. little food.

    Give all the clarion cry you want to help the illegals and turn around and not lift one finger to help those that stay, or try to come legally -- see how Christ feels about a blind eye in favor of illegals that holds back any attention to those that also deserve this same compassion.

    Some in the name of the family will spend their days, weekends building uptheir respective family, spend great amount of time doing work for the dead, but will have done absolutely nothing for the worthy poor of either their own Church or others that are located elsewhere in the world, but you want someone to help those that are here illegally.
    Shame!

  • one voice , one vote
    Feb. 16, 2008 10:26 a.m.

    and you can't speak for me or have mine!

  • BRichfield
    Feb. 17, 2008 5:44 a.m.

    you make a good pt., this country needs a house of order! I am a american and my family along with myself are often put to the back of the line in favor of these people. No more, No more!! We have relatives who have died right here from Utah in this war fighting for our homelands by boundaries(where these people are regulated by law and have made many attempts to infiltrate across the nation) Homeland Security does come with a price. The Open Border policy allows for disease increases that plague this population such as Aids, going undiagnosed and unchecked, ruthless gangs, havoc of who's using who's ID. The greater balance of justice needs to be rendered by border control, exact numbers, fairness shown to good workers, corporations being held accountable, what has been done is the false feeling of security which is a lie to these vunerable people once again..is that the ICEman has given them a reprieve. But call me what you will as I will stand by the law of the land because wasn't it so long ago that the church was encouraging people to stay in their own countries to make it heaven there!LEGAL!!!!!

  • How come...
    Feb. 17, 2008 9:34 p.m.

    2 illegal immigrants have a child and that child is legally a citizen? That's crazy. Barring any enforcement of illegal immigration laws why don't we just annex South America? Basically, that's what we've done.

  • dp
    Feb. 18, 2008 12:14 a.m.

    God has inspired people to break the law throughout scripture - even inspired the righteous to kill people - why is it so hard to believe that he has inspired people to flee Mexico and come to the US to make a better life for themselves and future generations?

  • FG
    Feb. 18, 2008 2:23 a.m.

    Native of America: please don't use caps, it's annoying.

    It took my forefathers 9 years of waiting to come here from Ireland during the potato famine. Immigration laws are designed to protect the workers. Every country has them. Business and labor work as a cycle. During times of high unemployment when there are few jobs, wages to the workers is at a stand still or reduced. We can't afford to have millions of people here with no jobs for them. During times of job growth, business has to compete for workers and wages go up. Because of this, immigration is limited to not affect the cycle. Having 15-20 million here illegally has disrupted this countries balance, and if we head into a recession, things are going to really get bad. Once the illegals are out of the country, then there will be more legal immigration. It's the illegals are keeping the legals out.

  • barryrichfield
    Feb. 18, 2008 4:47 a.m.

    So let me get this right. God inspired the 12-20 million to come across the border illegally, but the devil inspired all those that have been waiting in line legally . So those in line are fools, waiting to come to USA the right way.

    If I understand you , if 1 person comes illegally , then they sneak their relatives over the border later, so they have a full family or extend family here. As all 12-20,000,000 didn't get here the same day. then it is a good thing. Now let me see, If the Church doesn't care if they are illegal as long as they are baptized. and doodesn't mind if they bring more in illegally, and provides fast offerings to sustain them, and gives them jobs. What messages is being given to those that wait their turn?

    Isn't that aiding and abetting illegal activity. And Here I get to see them in the temple????? My that is wonderful. So may wife's 6 years for citizenship, and at least another 15 years to get her parents here is stupid if we try to do it legally. They should have to suffer because a few countries dominate illegally.

  • barry richfield
    Feb. 18, 2008 5:03 a.m.

    Let's discuss more. For my wife to come to USA, she had to have a physical- no diseases that protects those in USA- she had to have proof That I could afford her here. That is she had to be sponsored in such away, that when here she could not go on welfare or be a burden to the public at large. No food stamps, no free lunch. no special Social Security. She can not work without approval. She is legaly issued a card which cost more than a total of $3,000 to obtain.Partly to insure that a good and complete background check is done to insure she is legal, not a thief, has no criminal record, not a prostitute, and so on, not a terrorist.

    after jumping through all these legal hoops, she must learn and identify with American values and language.

    so you play the compassion card for those that skip all these standards to whose benefit? certainly not mine or my children or to the benefit of my wife, either. We have a legal child and legal parents.

    If you want to show compassion sponsor someone to come into USA legally. State law doesn't change legal status

  • barry richfield
    Feb. 18, 2008 5:17 a.m.

    Let's talk about English.

    all schools in the Philippines are taught in English even thoughj the people speak their ownm language. Almost every philippino that comes to America can simulate to the american way of life.

    In Mexico , where you may have millions upon millions coming to USA - absolutely no attempt is being made to assist their people to learn English, yet there President wants them to come to USA and send money home. If he cared about his people, they can learn Spanish at home, and english in their respective public schools. If you were a leader of this country and you wanted to assist your people and your neighbor relations , that would be the best way to serve those of mexico. That would have been 12-20 million English speaking people , what a difference it would make on how or what type a problem we would have with them here. At least a 1/3 or more of the problems are because they can not understand English and need to stay in their own little communities rather than assimulate into the American culture. Because they are illegal they can stay non english speaking increasing the problem.

  • Barry Richfield
    Feb. 18, 2008 5:25 a.m.

    The Churches , the state, the public , the social security, the welfare programs, the educational, and hospitals and all citizens are absolutely not opposed to legal immigration. I promise you Legal immigration protects all. It has nothing to do with incouraging illegal immigration.

    You want more legal immigration, then seek to change those laws that either increase the flow of people or changes the policies that need to be followed to get people here. Seems to me your forefathers addressed that, but what am I to believe they didn't care about you or them once they were here.

    Stupid me to think that they wanted to protect you from having to carry burdens such as bad diseases from getting into USA, or letting terrorist in, or criminals, letting peop[le in who could not sustain themselves or their families . Seems they provided a way for those that came to learn the American culture, allowed to keep own , but learn ours as well. and our language. To respect our law. Seem they gave the citizens a chance to show compassion by sponsoring and insuring they would come legally and appropriately, in an orderly way, and legally, each waiting turn.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 18, 2008 9:06 a.m.

    What else can you expect from Jensen! He's a LAWYER! These knuckleheads all think alike.

  • Jan
    Feb. 18, 2008 1:08 p.m.

    Since when does a seventy peak for the first presidency of the LDS church? Joseph Smith disliked attorneys because they always twist the truth. Elder Jensen is in no way authorities spokesmen for the LDS church. He is not part of the Quorum of the 12, and he has little authority and should not express himself as he has. During Sunday meetings this week many members were upset over his actions. And for those of you who try to cover this up-- SHAME ON YOU!

  • Dear Barry,
    Feb. 18, 2008 1:37 p.m.


    I'm sorry we are stretching the limits of your compassion. Apparently you are not alone in feeling your capacity for tolerance is being strained to the breaking point.

    We are at your mercy, and we beg you: these are our friends. They are real people next door whom we barbeque with, play softball with, go to church with. Our children play together.

    We understand they broke the law. We understand your sense of justice demands punishment. We know there are others in the world much worse off, and we are working along with you in your humanitarian causes. But we still care deeply about these our good neighbors. They have blessed our lives and we love them. We have found that although they came here illegally to take the jobs we offered them, their hearts are still good, and they are some of the most decent, hard-working people we know.

    If there is any possible way we can work together to solve our border problem without having to uproot them, terrify them, and dash their hopes of a better life for their families, then please--let us give it every chance we can.

    Sincerely,
    A fellow Utahn and friend

  • Dave
    Feb. 18, 2008 2:18 p.m.

    Dear fellow Utahn and friend:

    Are you serious or do you feel compelled to speak this way?

    I have great doubts about the sincerity of all of the talk of compassion. Not one writer for the Deseret News or General Authority supports shutting the border and resolving this issue?

    No problem at all here that doesn't simply need a compassion bandaid?

    How simple. Why didn't we think of this before. Revelation?

    Bunk!

    Please explain how having barbeques con tus amigos, who sense no obligation to obey our laws since we're so full of compassion towards them, will encourage the tens of millions of others work through legal channels to enter this country? It won't.

    How will playing softball (great use of words, friend) and being Good Neighbor Sam encourage these people to respect your property and rights (governed by those pesky laws they can pick and choose to obey). It won't.

    How will having everything printed in Spanish encourage these people to learn English and integrate into this country's culture? It won't.

    You like living next door to illegals? Good, because soon they'll be the only neighbors you have in Utah, their new Mecca.

  • Get a life!
    Feb. 18, 2008 2:51 p.m.

    People should NEVER feel sorry for those who break laws. It then says to others that it's okay to break them. American's who are legal go to jail for less crimes than do any illegals--- what's this? This is crime against law abiding Americans.

    I am totally disgusted!! There are NO EXCUSES FOR THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR!

  • barry richfield
    Feb. 18, 2008 8:05 p.m.

    dear Utahn and friend

    You see the problem as one kind friend, you fail to see they represent 12-20,000,000 who also have friends, and will also continue to live illegal , that they will have to falsify all they do. Lie, never be able to corect their deeds without ever leaving the USA, They will be unable to repent until you presuade them to go home. and enter through the correct gate. You are aiding and disabling them, from taking the actions necessary. You and they hope that some how they will be given a free pass to stay, legally, That they will have a (right) to ignore their wrong doing while expecting all others that wait in line to have to come in through the front door. You feel will not effect another soul.

    I suppose the 1/3 the host of heaven felt the same way, they wanted the same rights, but were not willing to do what was required of them, they felt they should also have a guarantee to have what they wanted. Rules of law meant nothing. You take no action or responsibility. Pay to support them while they are illegal,show charity for them and us

  • Dave
    Feb. 18, 2008 10:42 p.m.

    And another thing . . .

    I don't think I'm alone in wanting the Deseret News' editors and Church leaders to explain why it is so imperative that we overlook this whole illegal immigrant issue.

    Forget the sob stories and compassion menu de jour. They don't work. Flattery only works on those who flatter.

    Please explain who issued the mandate for the sympathy, the sob stories, and now the guilt trip. Further, please tell us why.

    That seems simple. I'm just not confident you can be genuine about it.

  • thinker
    Feb. 25, 2008 8:18 p.m.

    1) Elder Jensen did not condone illegal immigration - he suggested compasssion. Do you think a man a god should suggest incompassion ?

    2) THere are many home builders and landscapers that live in my ward in their $700k-$1,000k homes. THat is money that was built on the backs of illegal immigrants? I mean should a landscaper make 250K/ year because they have the "talent" of hiring illegals(payed on 1099 without no taxes withheld and leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab for all the social/infrastructure costs).

    I think that these people bear some serious responsibility for the problem. I asked the contractor that built my house if he used illegal immigrants and he told me " I'm no documents expert, if they show me paper with number on it I accept it." Of course none of them could speak beyond even rudimentary english.

    Perhaps the legislature should address this, maybe if they passed a law requiring withholding from payments to 1099 "independant contractors", that would go a long way towards solving the problem

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 24, 2008 6:26 p.m.

    orrin hatch is the proble

  • Anonymous
    June 1, 2009 1:14 p.m.

    I agree with the article. It is Christlike to have compassion and to share what we have. This country has been given so much by God. The more we give, the more He will give us. Let's keep it that way.

  • James J. Peterson
    June 6, 2009 9:29 p.m.

    Lets get behind Elder Jensen. I spent years of my life introducing the LDS faith to people who live in a Latin nation. I find it sad that people of my faith dont want the very same people living near them. This is a culture war that has everything to do with keeping the other out of our land. It is not an easy task to cross legally or illegally. If you want to keep these people legal lets change our laws to make it easy to become a member of our society. Rather then brushing our brothers and sisters under the rug.

  • BillyShum
    May 3, 2010 9:58 a.m.

    I am totally in agreement with Elder Jensen's plea for compassion to the individuals who are here illegally. However, compassion does not mean cannot enforce our laws. We don't have to be mean or hateful to enforce existing laws. No one would, for one moment suggest that in the name of compassion we not enforce laws against kidnapping, murder, robbery, or other criminal activity. Immigration laws are designed to allow us to know who is coming in to the country and for what purpose. The current efforts of States to enact immigration laws are a result of the Feds refusal to enforce the laws in existence. Let's just enforce our laws, secure our borders and simplify immigration laws so that those who want to come here for a better life and to work and be law abiding citizens can do so.

  • oldcougar
    June 28, 2010 6:21 p.m.

    It is a matter of faith. Do you support the prophet and do you seek the Lord in prayer to align your heart and mind with His. I'm confident the prophet has already done that. Please stop all the vitriolic comments about immigrants. It's frankly makes this committed Mormon sad.