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Details emerge in assault on U. players

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  • Just wondering . . .
    Jan. 23, 2008 2:58 a.m.

    The one source for the story is the player's father. So is this really what happened? Or is he leaving out details to protect his son?

    Just wondering about that . . .

    It seems strange that an attack would be this random. There has to be more backstory to this. And perhaps it might just be that they were targeted for being athletes.

    But, honestly, it doesn't matter why this occurred.

    Whatever happened, a stabbing is never justified. I'm really glad that everyone is going to be OK. And I wish all three players a speedy recovery, and I hope to see all of them on the field next season.

  • Who will tell?
    Jan. 23, 2008 4:44 a.m.

    there will be a slip up from the other side as the loose lip syndrome will happen. but avoid conflict at all cost as it could have been much worse...finding the perpetrators will not be that hard. Some are already known by the police for this kind of behavior.

  • RR
    Jan. 23, 2008 5:48 a.m.

    I don't think this is a case of the wrong place at the wrong time, it's a case of don't open your mouth to strangers taunting you, and especially don't go approach them to tell them to knock it off, even more especially in a bigger city where people are calling you names. It's terrible to end it in stabbing. The lesson is don't talk to strangers yelling at you. They should have learned this in elementary.

  • Ryan
    Jan. 23, 2008 6:59 a.m.

    "(he couldn't recall her last name)"???

    Make a phone call and get it! What is this, a high school newspaper?

    It's a shame to hear about this senseless violence. I hope the attackers are found. But, you know, that might be a little easier to do if someone would have the GUTS to release their descriptions!

  • JD
    Jan. 23, 2008 6:59 a.m.

    No one deserves to get stabbed, but it doesn't surprise me the football players (ego) got involved, telling the suspects to shut up and throw a snowball at them. It seems more than just the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe Coach Whit ought to address that instead of make excuses for it.

  • Good Reporting
    Jan. 23, 2008 7:46 a.m.

    So we get the whole story, not from the police, but a blow by blow report from the father of the victims. I'm sure it is unbiased.

    Especially how Paul Jr. stated "Look this is not worth getting into a scuffle over."

    Come on, I feel badly for what happended, feel badly for the families, but could we be anymore biased in a story?

  • jeff
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:04 a.m.

    are you trying to be politically correct by not releasing the "detail" regarding the race of the people in the cars!?

  • what???
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:19 a.m.

    Could we hear from the police, not just "good ol dad" whose opjectivity is a little suspect, or I should a lot suspect. Ute football players are not exactly known for being "humble, quiet and reserved." Quite the opposite. Whittingham encourages the aggressive, "put it out there" behavior. What happened was horrific but what did these boys expect. Walking on and keeping your mouth shut would have helped. Throwing a snowball and hitting a car is an invitation to a fight. Don't ask me why but it just is among the macho driven men of the world.

  • Bias?
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:23 a.m.

    Wow - I suppose that there might be some zoob witness who would give the trib the real scoop. Cougs, your own biases are so transparent with stupid and silly comments like this.

  • Hmmmm....
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:25 a.m.

    Why is the father releasing details of the incident, shouldn't that be the police dept. job..????..hmmmm

  • Keep your mouth shut
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:25 a.m.

    The players technically did nothing wrong by talking some smack and throwing a snowball. Otherwise great kids easily get caught up in that kind of stuff. But there is no doubt that today that can get you cut up or worse. It's a scary world we live in.

  • Brian
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:25 a.m.

    From the comments it is clear that most of these people have never had anything like this happen to them. When thugs are out looking for a fight it takes nothing much to become their victim. They are cowards who come armed for a fight and outnumber you and surround you so there really is no retreat anyway. Amazing how many people find a way to blame the victim.

  • Give me a break
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:26 a.m.

    I love all you "experts" acting as judge, jury, and executioner in a situation you know nothing about.

    This happened at a TEAM-ORGANIZED PARTY!! This was a party thrown for recruits on official visits. The football team organized, sanctioned, and paid for the party. That's why there were so many football players and recruits there - it was mandated by the coaching staff. That's why there was no alcohol.

    If there was more to it than what was said in this admittedly lame article, why haven't charges been filed against the players? Why hasn't Whittingham suspended them for even one game? This isn't BYU - the U actually punishes players who break the rules or the law.

    Please, by all means keep on judging them - judging others is what Jesus taught us to do, right?

  • To RR
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:31 a.m.

    Ignoring idiots can make them just as mad as saying something to them. In this day and age the right strategy is to dial 911 as soon as someone starts harassing or assaulting you (verbal or otherwise). Being on the phone to the authorities is as intimidating as it gets. It won't always work, but it is the best bet.

  • And it begins....
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:33 a.m.

    "Give me..." Thanks for officially making this a BYU vs. Utah issue. Good grief, get a life.

  • You make me sick
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:34 a.m.

    How can you accuse these guys of wrongdoing? You think he deserved a punctured lung for telling someone to shut up? Stab in the back is just punishment for a snowball? In that case, I don't even want to think what you deserve.

    Based on all evidence that has been presented, these kids did nothing wrong. Too many of you in Provo seem to be having a hard time with that. You know, you can be a good person and attend the University of Utah, despite what they taught you in Sunday School.

  • What?
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:35 a.m.

    Uh, Manase Tonga was suspended by BYU for getting a traffic ticket. Don't think that would ever happen at Utah.

  • Spin Zone
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:39 a.m.

    Wow, could this story have been spun by the dad any more?

  • Re: Give me a break
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:44 a.m.

    Give yourself a break and don't feel you have to belittle BYU any chance you get. This article has absolutely nothing to do with that school. You're no expert on what BYU does, so who is judging now?

  • Rose
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:51 a.m.

    I am waiting to read the police report. It sounds to me like the football players were invited to fight and they accepted the challenge. They should have walked away, they are lucky to be alive. I would like to know more about who attached them, it would be nice to have the police out looking for the cowards. Why are the Ute fans screaming at the Cougar fans?

  • re: Bias
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:53 a.m.

    Why make it a BYU-Utah thing. You Ute fans are so combative, hypersensitive and lame.

    Just let it go as a weak story.

    And yes, I have been involved in altercations with thugs, and have never used or heard someone use the phrase:

    "Look this is not worth getting into a scuffle over."

    Lame story, lame apologist.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:01 a.m.

    J.D. are you suggesting the players brought this on themselves and that Ute's coach take a stand on a situation in which few facts are known? Perhaps you might wait until all the details have emerged before making this judgement call.

  • Cool It
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:04 a.m.

    The players did nothing wrong.

    The players were outnumbered, and without weapons when the fight started. Yet some say they were looking for trouble. Yeah right.

    The fellas in the cars had weapons and were looking for trouble.

    The fact that these athletes are not dead is a testament to their courage and ability.

  • Get real
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:08 a.m.

    No excuses for the attackers please, macho football players or not, knives and screw drivers because someone yelled back at you is sick and evil. These thugs need to be identified and put away to protect all of society. Of course they were looking for a fight so even if words were not exchanged the attack would have happened. The police won't be a source of information because the investigation is ongoing, they'll get the job done quicker if they don't have to play it out in the media. This would not happen to anyone if we all just stayed home and never went out, what a sad STATE we live in if it has come to that.

  • Re: JD
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:08 a.m.

    Stop defending the attackers. They stabbed two people period.

  • hey jeff
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:08 a.m.

    what does the race have to do with it. are you a cop the police are the only ones that need all the info. we can get it when they get caught

  • Whiplash
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:09 a.m.

    C'mon folks. These are good young men who were attacked by some low-life, loser thugs. From a die hard BYU blue fan.... I'm sorry to hear about the attacks and hope the Ute players make a speedy and full recovery. Some people take a fun and healthy rivalry way too far. Plug those holes up and get back in the weight room! I'm looking forward to another 4th and 18 next year.

    Give me a break: thanks for the additional information. Wish they would have put that in the original article so people don't have to wonder about the type of party they were leaving. Poor reporting.

  • Re:What???
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:13 a.m.

    Your a little confused here, your blaming the guys that got stabbed. If they were BYU players I'm sure it would be the other way around. Your a troll.

  • Look
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:16 a.m.

    ""Look this is not worth getting into a scuffle over." ??? What - is this 1955?

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:17 a.m.

    Hey 're: bias,' if this isn't a Utah-BYU story (which indeed it isn't), why generalize by saying "you Ute fans are so combative...?" People all over this board and others are actually questioning the character of these young men. The real issue is that they were stabbed and could've been killed. Does it really matter which university they attend or whether they play sports? Instead of looking at this as two Ute players get stabbed, look at is two human beings were stabbed while walking down the street from a party. As for the one player throwing a snowball, yes, that was surely a foolish response to being yelled at. I'm sure he regrets those actions. Still, it doesn't merit being stabbed. Let's just hope Paul recovers fully.

  • same old same old
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:19 a.m.

    First and foremost hope the players recover quickly and are able to get back to 100 percent; shouldn't get a shank in the back and ribs for mouthing off. I guess its just the times we live in. That being said, it's getting to be extremely difficult for this BYU fan from out of state to read the DN anymore without people hijacking the comment section (ON ANY ARTICLE) and turning it into a Mormon vs non, Utah vs BYU argument. Same old same old. Every day the same bickering. Yawn.

  • Fritz
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:23 a.m.

    Yeah, I think Dad was too biased too. They should have gotten comments from an unrelated person who was not there to see anything. To make it less biased they should not know the victims either. Hey! That would be me. So, here is what really happened. They were walking home and a UFO came down and sucked them up. The "stab wounds" are really from shoddy alien exploratory surgery. They dumped them out and changed their memory to remember the given story. That is the straight, unbiased, uninformed truth.
    Come on folks. Get a life. Yes the father might be biased, but the writer had to use the best available sources. It is common to use relatives for information. BYU had nothing to do with this incident, and no I am not from Provo. This was an unfortunate incident, and the cowardly scum who did it are still out there. Don't try to make more out of it than is in the article.

  • Lame Story
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:32 a.m.

    This was a lame story. We don't know any more details now than we did before. From the few details given, it doesn't sound like the boys were in the wrong place, just there at the wrong time. I'm not going to fault them for the exchange of words that Dad so dutifully filtered for us. I probably would've run my mouth, too, never thinking somebody would stab me over it. There was no alcohol or drugs involved, and the players didn't start. Could they have walked away? Maybe, but from the sounds of things the thugs definitely planned on attacking somebody that night. Shudder to think what would've happened to a group of average size boys that night.

    But to "give me a break," really? Are you really going to contend that Bronco, who has suspended some of his boys over caffiene, is more lenient than Kyle, who has ignored a DUI arrest among other things?

  • Todd
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:35 a.m.

    Let's don't forget that 2 of these players were stabbed, and one of them critically. Since when did talking smack, and throwing snowballs warrant a knife attack? I gather from some of the posts that some of you are condoning what took place, and that is appalling, and for this to become a Cougar vs. Ute thing how ridicilous. The reality here is no matter the school affliation or who said and did what to start the incident 2 people were stabbed, and someone could have died.

  • In the know
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:38 a.m.

    Dear Friends, I wish I could convey to you the character and honesty of this family and these young men. They are good people. I know the Kruger family personally. I assure you that any faults you find in this story are not the making of the family. I assure you if any of us were in a similar situation, we would have done as Paul did and try and protect our family---that is what he did, try and protect his brother and sister and friend from a situation that got out of hand. I have been there. Afterwards, one feels terrible, but the consolation is that in the end you were trying to protect loved ones. The Krugers are victims!!! I submit that walking away wasn't an option. So now my good friend lies in a hospital bed while the perpetrators run free.

  • Re: Cool it
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:39 a.m.

    The players did nothing wrong? Maybe not criminally, but if they keep their egos in check, then this doesn't happen. What they did wrong, was mouth off to a group of thugs. You got to know when to pick your battles.

  • FANS, knock it off!
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:44 a.m.

    BYU fans quit blaming Ute fans for making it a "BYU-Utah thing," and Ute fans quit bringing BYU into this.

    This is nothing more than a tragic event that happened to a couple of guys who didn't deserve this.

    Whittingham is doing and saying the right stuff, and what seems to be the truth to the best of his knowledge.

    Don't accuse the dad of lying just because you know nothing about how gangsters work, it seems to me that his story is pretty legit.

    This is a classic example of what thugs do. They decide they want a fight and they go get into a fight they don't care if it is one sided or not. If you talk they jump you, if you run they jump you, if you call 911 they jump you.

    "Wrong place at the wrong time" I couldn't have said it any better myself.

    Paul only has one kidney and if he were stabbed there instead of where he was he would be dead.

    Quit trying to make this the victims fault.

    There is only one group of people to blame this on,

    THE PEOPLE THAT DID IT!

    DON'T BLAME THIS ON THE VICTIM.

  • MadMax
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:47 a.m.

    To intimate that the Ute FB players did anything deserving of being attacked with knives and screwdrvers is beyond ridicuous. Further, to insinuate that the party attended was not wholesome is also biased. Words and snow balls do not warrent being attacked by a 'gang' of hooligans on the prowl. These attackers are cowards and bullies.

    Bythe way, a description of the 'alleged' attackers and the vehicles involved would help in gathering information leading to their capture and eventual trial. Regardless of the ethnicity of these villans they deserve punsihment, not plea bargaining. An example must be made so that similar conduct is discouraged in the future.

    Thank God that the players were not more seriously hurt and they are recovering well. God bless you guys!

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:51 a.m.

    throwing a snowball at a car is battery.
    seems to me the players escalated the situation.

  • Mike
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:58 a.m.

    I grew up in a large city and you have to learn to walk away from this type of situation. It's easy to just say that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but you can almost always avoid a fight. Football players, especially the big ones, rarely walk away. It's not in their nature!

    What would've happened if one of them had called 911 and promply reported the license plate number of the vehicle as soon as this started to escalate?

    That would've probably scared the attackers away!

  • Fritz and Ryan Replyer
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:58 a.m.

    Like you Fritz and Ryan, I think that this article was biased.

    Why didn't the DN interview the guys in the car who jumped out and stabbed these fellows? I think then we would know the 'unbiased' truth. How come they didn't interview them?!?

    When will these writers learn good journalism?

  • Spitz
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:58 a.m.

    Anonymous, you are right. These board become peppered with insults no matter what the topic. People, say something relevant or don't post at all. We get it - some people love the Utes and some love the Cougars. Who cares?

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 23, 2008 10:04 a.m.

    "Details emerge..." Should read, "Half truths emerge from Dad..."

    "Look this is not worth getting into a scuffle over." Are you joking???

  • Dick
    Jan. 23, 2008 10:27 a.m.

    I'm sure the story we're hearing is somewhat biased. Even so, the victims didn't deserve to be stabbed.

    We need to stop this BYU/Utah nonsense. Both schools have athletes that have been in trouble in the past and will in the future. This didn't happen because Whittingham teaches this anymore than the BYU guys who broke down the door of an innocent apartment dwellar and threatened to kill the occpants did that because Mendenhall teaches that kind of behavior.

    And, for the guy above talking about Tonga, he was suspended, not for getting a traffic ticket, but for giving false information to a police officer (an assumed name). Mendenhall, or anyone else, doesn't suspend players for a simple speeding violation or failure to stop at a stop sign.

    Let's let the police do their duty and wait for an official report before judging any of the victims on this.

  • From a Cougar Fan
    Jan. 23, 2008 10:28 a.m.

    I am a Cougar Fan. Although we all have our feelings about the rivalry, I hate to see anyone get hurt like this senseless act. Whether it was provoked or not, biased or not does not matter. The main fact is that individuals were injured in a senseless manner. My best goes to the all the U players who were injured and hope they have a speedy recovery.

  • A Parent
    Jan. 23, 2008 10:33 a.m.

    I'm old school enough to believe a parent has the responsibility to get out his family's account of what happened.

    Mock the paper for its reporting if you will, but the story is about what the Krugers' dad knows about what happened.

    Thank goodness that Paul Kruger's injuries were no worse than they are.

    It is frightening to me how college athletes can become targets for this kind of senseless violence.

    Somebody knows who the attackers were. Turn them in!

  • Some ignorant posters?
    Jan. 23, 2008 10:36 a.m.

    Since when is getting jumped from behind with knives and screwdrivers the victims fault? The thugs jumped these players from behind? For all of you who said you would ignore them and walk away? I guess thats what our country should have done on 9"11". But we were attacked without warning just like these football players were. But you say whatever makes you feel good until it happens to you or a family member and see how you repond. You are a bunch of cowards. Move to France please!

  • Be decent people
    Jan. 23, 2008 10:53 a.m.

    Wow... From a "true" coug fan, not part of the nerd herd, these comments are dispicable. Anybody in this situation would have been jumped. The fact that it was a few Utes makes no difference. This is scary, and would have been a lot scarier if the football team was outside, for the "thugs". True thugs don't ride around looking to jump someone, these "thugs" are just posers. 2Pac is dead ya'll, time to live and love. Listen to Marley.

  • Re: A Parent
    Jan. 23, 2008 10:56 a.m.

    These guys were jumped because they were football players, I don't believe that the thugs cared who they were. They were jumped because they mouthed off. That's all it takes for a thug to act. But please, football players are NOT being targeted.

  • Come on BYU
    Jan. 23, 2008 11:25 a.m.

    I think it is funny how so many BYU fans were on here talking about how they were so concerned for the players and were praying for them, now you turn around and essentially stab them in the back with your comments about the guys being the provokers. Seems like you take pride that they were provoking....I'd rather have them do that and throw snowballs than to be RM's who lie about there identity! Come on people!!!!

  • Ban Jai
    Jan. 23, 2008 11:25 a.m.

    This is just proof that bad things happen to people that make bad decisions. Had they been playing for BYU however.......

  • Dave
    Jan. 23, 2008 11:32 a.m.

    Money talks, put up a reward, someone will try and collect. Then maybe we will hear the other side of the story. A group of people, be it young or old are just a bunch of cowards in my opinion.

  • sean
    Jan. 23, 2008 11:33 a.m.

    Why still no information on the attackers? Shouldn't we be informed fo the make/model of the car, some basic descriptions? Seriously, why no info?

  • BYU Fan
    Jan. 23, 2008 11:36 a.m.

    As a BYU fan, I give my best wishes to these players and hope for a speedy recovery.

    I personally cheer for Utah except when they play BYU. What's wrong with both schools having great programs?

  • ribby
    Jan. 23, 2008 11:39 a.m.

    I'm a BYU fan. I've lived around (and have lots of friends that are) Utah fans. The rivalry is intense but there's nothing wrong with Utah fans. C'mon people, don't take it so serious.

  • BYU fan
    Jan. 23, 2008 11:42 a.m.

    This was an unfortunate situation that could have happened to anyone. Not BYU, not U of U, but certain football players in general have a tendency to react and not think things through in these kinds of situations, (and a number of the rest of us just react in certain situations also). Just like with the incident with BYU players breaking into the apartment last year because of water balloons, mouthing off and throwing a snowball at a car full of thugs probably wasn't the smartest move. The victims did do the right thing by trying to protect each other after the fact. The victims did nothing wrong, they just made an unwise decision. Obviously the attackers are the guilty party. They're criminals and I hope they are found and brought to justice. The victims could have been killed, and I think an act of violence like that could be grounds for attempted murder and a number of other charges. It's sad to see things like this happen, and I hope that the victims recover soon.

  • Incensed
    Jan. 23, 2008 12:15 p.m.

    The thugs who picked this fight are such losers! That's the word that needs to be on the streets about them. There was no honor in this fight, except by those who defended themselves. Only cowards attack, and worse cowards attack in a group.

  • All BYU fans
    Jan. 23, 2008 12:41 p.m.

    We're all grateful that Kruger's injuries are not serious and he will soon recover. Hopefully, the police will soon round up these dangerous attackers and put them away, they shouldn't be roaming the streets of the city looking for someone to kill or injure.

  • Scuffle
    Jan. 23, 2008 1:07 p.m.

    I am just sure he used the word "scuffle". All the kids these days are using it.

  • Duckman
    Jan. 23, 2008 1:11 p.m.

    Screwdrivers and knives???

    The players are lucky thats all it was.

    People are getting shot in the inner-cities of our country because they looked at other kids the wrong way, or because someone else at the party was targeted.

    No, they didn't deserve it, but remind your kids that yelling insults and throwing snowballs can get you killed in his country. (whether you are a yewt or kewg...)

  • Justin
    Jan. 23, 2008 1:21 p.m.

    Anonymous - didn't you mean to say "throwing a snowball is assault with a deadly weapon"? Battery is not quite addequate to describe the escalation you see in the circumstances. What law school or police academy did you attend? Please do not put on a uniform or a suit and offer to defend me.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 23, 2008 1:51 p.m.

    Justin-
    Did you take the bar exam.
    Ever heard of civil battery?

  • Come on "Fans"
    Jan. 23, 2008 2:27 p.m.

    Look i love a great college football rivalry as much as the next guy, but this is way out of control.

    First, Plaisted's wife gets arrested for DUI, and Ute fans immediately start to bag on BYU. Then this happens, and BYU fans start to bag on Utah.

    You call yuorselves "true fans"

  • Anonymous to Justin
    Jan. 23, 2008 2:36 p.m.

    An assault is the fear of battery. An assault does not require a person to be physically harmed. A battery does.

  • SJ Bobkins
    Jan. 23, 2008 2:49 p.m.

    Whenever a yutz player gets into a fight, steals or breaks into a car, does damage to a woman, stumbles drunkenly through a busy street, the word "party" is always part of the story?
    Oh, and were is our friend who claimed the fight was caused by BYU players? Is there nothing yutz fans won't try to dump on BYU? Accept the losses and be a man.

  • True Story
    Jan. 23, 2008 3:00 p.m.

    I'm one of the victims, and the incident transpired exactly as it is written in this article. There is no bias about it. Yeah we could have ignored them but we didn't. I personally hate the idea of people mouthing of to whomever they please. Gangsters have no place in this world and they should all be locked away.

  • Tex
    Jan. 23, 2008 3:04 p.m.

    I love reading this "newspaper" so I can hear fans at both schools run each other down. The only thing missing from this poorly-written article is a mention about the predominent church in the area.

  • Butch
    Jan. 23, 2008 3:31 p.m.

    I didn't realize that the acid ran this deep just because a couple people got involved in a messey situtation. Would you people be dancing in the street if this had been three BYU players. You people are SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Wha?
    Jan. 23, 2008 3:38 p.m.

    This same thing happened AT BYU. It was the basket ballplayer's word against the attackers. The player even gave firesides on 'forgiveness'. The BYU player was lying about provocation and the case was dropped do to eyewitness testimony (a BYU employee who saw the whole thing) but the lives of 4 young men so accused by a 'holy one' were screwed up by this guy's lies.

    I feel bad the guys were hurt, but the story from the players Dad just doesn't ring true. Student athletes are not known for their modesty and submissiveness in confrontation.

  • STA
    Jan. 23, 2008 3:53 p.m.

    Is the father's story biased - probably; however, there is also a high degree of truth to what he said. As a neutral BYU/Utah observer, I don't think any reasonable person contends that these three players were senselessly attacked by a group of thugs. I hope the they are caught - the irate citizen in me says summary execution is too good for them.

  • Re: True Story
    Jan. 23, 2008 3:54 p.m.

    Hey True Story,

    You call the assailants, "Gangsters". Did they appear to be part of a gang? Could you identify which gang, if so? Do you know why the police aren't releasing suspect descriptions? Thanks.

  • Battery
    Jan. 23, 2008 4:08 p.m.

    Battery doesn't exist in the Utah criminal code,(although it does in California Penal Code). So you legal scholars need to get that right.

    Also, I disagree that 'they were in the wrong place at the wrong time'. They (the victims) had something to do with it being the wrong place. I agree with the earlier post, that they were lucky guns weren't involved.

  • Police
    Jan. 23, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    The police did release a description of the suspects: All Hispanice. The real question is why have KSL/Deseret News choosen to hide that detail, when other local news stations reported it.

  • Wow
    Jan. 23, 2008 4:35 p.m.

    The "judgers" with the BYU twist are truly despicable and need to re-examine their lives and what BYU stands for. 1-We don't judge victims of a crime. 2-We don't find joy when someone is stabbed, even if they don't go to our school, our church, our ward or even if they hate our school, our church and our ward. 3-We don't find excuses for criminals who drive around looking for fights and stabbing people. 4-We don't judge the motives or integrity of a father of a victim. 5-We don't explain how our righteousness helps us avoid crime as a way to blame victims. 6-We try and represent ourselves and our school/religion with integrity and respect and charity toward others. Otherwise, we are just a shame and vile people hiding behind a church or school so we can be better in our own bubble. Remember, who we are and what we represent... no matter what anyone else says, does or writes bad about us.

  • Betty
    Jan. 23, 2008 5:25 p.m.

    After reading all the above comments, I feel like most of you have not lived in or near a real Big City. I have. Big City rules, basically, are: Don't react to taunts, don't look at a stranger's face (because they don't like it), and don't look at a guy's girlfriend or sister. (Definitely don't throw anything or say anything.)

    These victims were not "in the wrong place at the wrong time." They were in the right place at the right time.

    The people who attacked them are bullies, looking for a fight. It doesn't take much to set them off, for they are already on the edge. Bullies always pick on "nice guys;" it doesn't matter who they are or what color they are. They might even attack if you ignore them. They like violence. It makes them feel important.

    You people need to get out of your BYU vs. UU mindset, and think of these victims as your brothers and sisters. It could have been so much worse, and I am grateful that these guys will recover. I hope the police will find the bullies and prosecute them. And stop being so judgemental, you are showing your ignorance!

  • Concerned about these Comments
    Jan. 23, 2008 5:25 p.m.

    Am I going crazy or there people actually making such stupid statements on this blog as to suggest that this was the players fault or that they shouldn't have quoted from Paul Kruger's dad?

    I am as big a BYU fan as anyone around, but any of you that are claiming these boys deserved this because they are at the U of U, or that the father shouldn't have been interviewed - I have one question for you - are you stupid!

    Seriously! Since when is it okay for 15 people to jump 3 people and stab them? I would disclose the race of these 15 people but for the fact the Des. News wouldn't post my comments.

    These are good kids. They didn't deserve this.

    Those of you that don't think its okay for the father to speak out about this attack are fools. Hope nothing ever happens to you or your family, because according to your ignorant logic, you couldn't say anything about to anyone. Times like this I'm ashamed at humanities stupidity.

    Hope these boys get better. Hope these gang members are caught and convicted of attempted MURDER!

  • yewtsrnogood
    Jan. 23, 2008 5:29 p.m.

    Huge BYU fan, but this is horrible.

    I played at Idaho State. We had a bunch of knuckleheads on the team that got into trouble all the time. I occasionally went out with them (to drive them home). I was amazed at how stupid some people are.

    Groups of guys would start fights with us. No provocation. Nothing. Just start a fight. It didn't matter where we went, it almost always happened. We always got in trouble, sometimes guys got suspended. I always thought they were a bunch of thugs until I realized that for some reason there are a lot of losers out there who are unbelievably jealous of collegiate athletes, and want to try and prove they are just as tough or something.

    When I read this article I can see myself standing there watching it happen just like I've seen before. These guys did nothing wrong. Anyone who says it had anything to do with ego is ignorant. A snowball is harmless, how could they anticipate something like this? They are young guys, they were just out having a good time. They weren't trying to cause trouble.

  • From...
    Jan. 23, 2008 6:54 p.m.

    the weapons used to attack the players, it looks like the attackers are gangsters. I do hope they find the thugs and put them away...

  • Fan of both schools
    Jan. 23, 2008 7:39 p.m.

    My solution:

    (for law abiding,level headed adults only)

    1-Get your concealed carry permit

    2-Buy handgun

    3-Become proficient in handling gun

    4-Carry in puplic-mind own business-avoid confrontation at all cost

    5-If life is threatend by thug-shoot to kill!

    6-Less thugs-safer society

  • Truth
    Jan. 23, 2008 7:46 p.m.

    The bottom line is the attackers were looking for trouble...I grew up in So Cal with these kinds of guys...they are bullies...they ALWAYS outnumber their victims and any kind of fight will NEVER be fair.Anybody that wants to blame the victims for saying something...throwing a snowball...looking the wrong way etc as a reason they got attacked is just misguided.What there attackers did was commit assault with a deadly weapon...attempted murder among other crimes.Its funny that some people want to find a reason that the victims were attacked...some how it makes them feel better.They think that if they don't look people in the eye..don't say anything to anyone that shouts profanities...basically just act like a coward towards these thugs that nothing will happen to them.Well think again..they will victimize your too...I'm proud of these football players for not putting their tail between their legs and cowering away...I guess you'll just cry when they spit on you and your family and you just sit there and do nothing about it.Thats why the thugs do what they do...nobody stops them.Evil grows when good men sit back and do nothing....and that means defend the evil...even on this forum...condemn it..there are no excuses!

  • LLanquihue
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:08 p.m.

    Kyle, love ya, but this is not a classic case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.. I know Coach did not mean to say it but that philosophy cedes our neighborhoods, parks and eventually our country to gangs and thugs. We do not ask permission from any thugs, losers, etc to walk our streets.

  • cougar fan
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:33 p.m.

    maybe if the both of them went to BYU none of this would have happenned, I heard David is a punk. He in my oppinion thought he was so "tuff". Unfortunate that it happenned. Go Cougars 4th and 18 (wink wink)

  • Its....
    Jan. 23, 2008 8:34 p.m.

    BYU fans Obviously

  • It doen't take much...
    Jan. 23, 2008 9:22 p.m.

    I remember watching two kids get stabbed and four more go to the hospital with serious head injuries in a fight after a high school dance because one kid was talking to someone else's girl friend. If you don't believe that a few words and a snowball are enough to provoke a fight, then you must not get out much.

    To those Sad 4th and 18 people down south, their excuse would be that things look different from inside the happy-valley bubble.

  • BYU fans really this rude???
    Jan. 23, 2008 10:08 p.m.

    Maybe the sports world is the wrong place to get an impression of a group of people like Mormons. Do fans of BYU really think it is funny these guys got stabbed? I grew up in a suburb outside of NYC and attended school at Uof Mich and we despised the Ohio State U but seeing Mormons/BYU fans take pot shots at these players is amazing. I came to Utah to work for a investment group and never really meet Mormons like the ones on this newspaper site. Are Mormons/BYU fans really this arrogant and hateful of Utah players/fans? I can tell by reading the posts that BYU is the school of the "local religion" but aren't there many mormons who also go to the UofU?

    I guess I am just surprised at the level of arrogance and the number of really rude people who post on here.

    I have been to a Mormon church with a BYU friend and at their church I never met anybody who seemed as if they would say stuff like people do on here. Pretty much all Mormon posts are pretty ugly.

    I guess people can really do some acting on Sunday???

  • RE:BYU fans really this rude???
    Jan. 23, 2008 11:01 p.m.

    What? Did you really have BYU fans on a pedastal???

    People are people.

    It's not worth getting in a verbal scuffle about.

  • In WA
    Jan. 24, 2008 5:58 a.m.

    In my time at BYU, two friends got jumped at Taco Bell for less. 10 guys jumped out of a van and attacked them. This stuff can happen. And to BYU fans really this rude? Why make this a Mormon non Mormon thing here? It is stupid enough it has become a BYU/Utah thing. Example #20047 of why I could never bring myself to moving back to Utah, everyone grow up.

  • True Fans
    Jan. 24, 2008 9:53 a.m.

    Its hard to say if BYU fans or Ute fans are really this rude. I think that a lot of the posters on here make up a name representing their enemy school and then make stupid comments to make that school look bad.

    There is hardley a better explanation than that. Who really would say such things. It is hard to believe that it isn't someone from the rival trying to make the other look stupid.

  • Interesting comments...
    Jan. 24, 2008 11:17 a.m.

    I don't have too much to say.. Just what I think.

    First off, what's done is done. The only people that really need to know "exactly" what happened are the people that were involved, and the authorities.

    Second, sure, his dad said it all, I know Paul Sr. and he'd use a word like scuffle, and I don't see who's to judge him in what he says or how. I'm sure he didn't search out the media and tell them what to write.

    Thirdly, they taunted. So those who say that they did nothing at all wrong... I don't understand that. I am not commending the hispanics, but look, if you are trying to evit any possibility of a fight, why would you throw a snowball? Doesn't make them bad people, but surely not the smartest thing to do. Anyway, it's hard to say exactly what you'd do in a situation like that, right? Maybe they were going to pick the fight anyway, but there's a difference in it happening with, and without the snowball thrown.

    Fourth, I hope that all affected will speedily recover!

  • Arguments
    Jan. 24, 2008 12:30 p.m.

    1. Maybe he didn't say scuffle that night, maybe he said "fight" and just changed the word for the newspaper...makes no difference...this point is a non-issue

    2. Yah they did something wrong, they threw a snowball...but you can't even begin to justify getting beat up by 15 guys and being stabbed by them for throwing a snowball...maybe they deserved a white-wash or something for throwing a snowball...you could even make a case for vandalism if it dented the car (which i highly doubt it did)...but attempted murder? They did nothing to deserve that...

    That's like saying everytime someone doorbell ditches you, they deserve to be stabbed...

  • hypersensitive,combative
    Jan. 24, 2008 12:48 p.m.

    and lame. So would you be if your rival beat you in football the last two years! I still can't get over the blocked field goal either. (UCLA)

    I hope they find the thugs and feed them to the rest of the Utah football team.

  • Richard M.
    Jan. 24, 2008 4:02 p.m.

    Anyone who is trying to pin any blame on these three kids has serious problems. I am a Cougar through and through and I HATE the Utes. But these cowardly acts are an outrage. The guys who did it should be seriously punished. All three of these kids could have died. Some of these posts are disturbing. Get a clue. You can't be that stupid.

  • Richard M.
    Jan. 24, 2008 4:13 p.m.

    Okay, I just read up from the bottom of all these comments. I think it is clear that there are only a few dumb posts and they are mostly at the top. I think it is fair to say that most of the BYU fans and probably Mormons, GO MITT, know that this stuff cannot be tolerated and feel sick that it happened to anyone. I was worried there for a second. I am so glad I don't live in Utah. The only place in America where being Mormon is an issue in every stinking topic. Get over it people.

  • RE: Arguements
    Jan. 24, 2008 10:29 p.m.

    What arguement are you trying to make?

    How are those comments justifying the thugs? Maybe you need to read and understand what was wrote. When people commit a crime like that it can't be justified. The point that was made was the fact that the taunted. If you disagree... then maybe you have a differnt meaning for the word. Were they at fault? That's not my place to say, but I will say that if there's a group of thugs and they are looking for a problem, I'm not going to pick up a snowball and throw it at their car. I mean, if that's what you would do... great, that's your decision, but just to clear the record, (if it was really THAT hard to understand) I'm not justifying the actions of the thugs, I'm just saying that it was probably not the smartest thing to throw a snowball at a large group of people that are picking a fight. Honestly, it was more the fact of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sometimes things just happen, and it's unfortunate.

  • A Friend (Age 23)
    Jan. 25, 2008 11:24 a.m.

    Having served in Missouri with Paul Jr., I can see him saying "Look this is not worth getting into a scuffle over."

    I am quite saddened by the picture painted of Paul Jr. by the posts on this blog. They don't reflect his true character at all. Yes, he is a football player, but he is also one of the most solid individuals I have ever met.

    I am glad his prospects for a full recovery are good.

  • Trevor
    Jan. 25, 2008 1:39 p.m.

    I can't believe some of the posts on here from people who are blinded by their love of BYU. This has nothing to do with a rivalry.

    First of all Paul is from Orem and served a mission and is a great person.

    The real issue is 3 people got jumped by 15 Mexicans. Half of which are likely here in this country illegaly. This happens all the time because these thugs realize that in a one on one fight they would get knocked out, so they have to fight 5 on 1.

    I personally volunteer my services to fight anyone of these thugs 1 on 1. I can't believe that this artcile didn't mention anything about the race of the suspects.

  • Stan
    Jan. 25, 2008 10:54 p.m.

    Paul Kruger has always been a kind and has high character. I love BYU but some of the fans need to pull there heads out for a breath of air. Really get real, this is real life and does not have to do with red or blue. I coached him in pony League baseball and know his family and brothers, they are good caring people. I wish him only the best

  • Ginger Kid
    Nov. 26, 2008 6:58 p.m.

    Look, both BYU and Utah are dumb schools.