Quantcast
Utah

What's next if driver won't sign ticket?

Comments

Return To Article
  • Darryl
    Nov. 22, 2007 10:49 a.m.

    Out on the highway is not the time or the place to exercise your rights you feel may have been abridged. Seldom are traffic stops wrong or incorrect. It has always been comical to me when speeders or reckless drivers have the audacitry to argue or become belligerent when stopped by an officer.

    When being stopped for a traffic violation, you should accept your citation then appear before the judge and plead your case with facts. The abuses police officers and troopers receive is uncalled for and in some cases, the violator may have brought on their own consequences with their behavior.

  • Gary
    Nov. 22, 2007 11:16 a.m.

    I fought a speeding ticket once and the judge told me that my signature on the ticket WAS an admission of wrongdoing. We have this fantasy about the constitutional rights, but they don't really exist unless you have a huge amount of money to pay for lawyers. It doesn't really matter what the lawyers say about constitutional rights and all that garbage, it's what the judge says when you get in front of him. Unless you are rich...

  • Barnard
    Nov. 22, 2007 11:18 a.m.

    Great a position paper by a civil rights attny.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 22, 2007 11:21 a.m.

    Two things:

    1.) For some reason people believe that laws are not what they are. That everything is solved by talking as if you are in some group therapy session. There is a protocol to follow - a system - and if you defy it, you are breaking the law.

    2.) The cop probably could have said something like this, "Okay buddy this is what's gonna happen. You have a debate over whether you were speeding. Fine. But there's a time and a place to do that - in court. My job now is to ensure you sign this, which is your pledge to appear in court. If you don't sign it, I'm gonna arrest you because you're violating the law. If you resist, I'm gonna taser you or whatever else I have to do to bring you under arrest. Are we clear?"

    I bet you this guy would've shut up pretty fast.

  • Stephen
    Nov. 22, 2007 12:48 p.m.

    I am surprised to see some of the comments in here and at other places which imply that you MAY have constitution rights all over the country BUT NOT on a highway.... as if highway was an entirely new country. They do sound like someone who is working for Law enforcement agencies. In all fairness they should disclose whether they work for Law Enforcement Agency or not in his/her/their comment(s). - A concerned driver

  • Miguel Contreras
    Nov. 22, 2007 1:11 p.m.

    I am a retired cop with 30 years under my belt. Who cares if the driver signs or not. If the city and/or police department requires that all drivers sign a traffic ticket and the driver refuses to sign, the officer has the option to write "refused to sign" - What happened to civility and our police and community relation concepts?

  • hooke
    Nov. 22, 2007 2:06 p.m.

    I believe all speed laws are implied contracts under the Uniform commercial code. Section 1-207 states that any contract you do not willingly, knowing agree to obey you do not have to obey.
    name
    without prejudice
    ucc 1-207

    look it up.

  • Commonsense24k
    Nov. 22, 2007 2:30 p.m.

    The cop was in motion at the time. A speed radar has to be stable to be effective. I didn't see a 40-mile an hour sign until after the cop began to pull this guy over, hence the argument "where's the sign at that you're talking about..." How was the guy speeding? He was pulled over before he reached the sign. Watch the video! The guy asked one question repeatedly... "What speed was I going...?" The officer didn't know. The victims vehicle wasn't past the 40-mile an hour mark, before he was pulled over. In the jurisdiction (the officer was in) could he have left the citation in the vehicle of the offender? He was quick and cold the way he tased! I bet none of you people would be on this cops side if this were your mother in the same situation. Did the cop have the option of leaving the un-signed citation with the guy and leaving the scene, or was he obligated to make the individual sign it? If he had a choice of either the two, but chose to tase; then, he should be fired and never allowed to work in law enforcement again!

  • omar
    Nov. 22, 2007 2:34 p.m.

    The UCC code does not apply to normal citizens, the UCC code just apply to merchants in the course of their business.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 22, 2007 2:44 p.m.

    I have to wonder whether Gardner has a history of investigations for excessive use of force. The motorist did NOTHING that could possibly justify being shot for a speeding ticket...whether it was a bullet or a taser, a gun is a gun and shooting someone is shooting someone. If Gardner is THAT twitchy with a weapon, he needs to be reassigned to a desk job.

    I'm sure glad I'll never be driving through Utah.

  • Pedrous123
    Nov. 22, 2007 2:55 p.m.

    Review of the Tape will indicate that the trooper pulled his vehicle in front of the temporary sign thereby blocking the sign from view of oncoming motorists. That is a tactic used in speed traps. The trooper did not designate the offense as e.g. 50 mph in a 40 mph zone. 'You were going kinda fast' doesn't cut it. The Utah State Motor Vehicle web site states that a motorist can calmly explain his actions to the officer at the time of the citation issuance and that the officer will listen to his side. Didn't happen here. The trooper told the motorist that he couldn't explain and that wasn't the place to argue his case.

    When asked what his speed was the officer refused to tell him. The officer did not tell the motorist that signing the citation was not an admission of guilt.
    He did not tell the motorist that failure to sign was grounds for arrest. He ordered him out of the car and told him he was under arrest. The troopers body language and demeanor were those of someone looking for confrontation.

    the trooper's use of the Taser exhibited immature and dangerous conduct.

  • Deputy Dog
    Nov. 22, 2007 2:59 p.m.

    Well this seems like a played event. The driver with a smirk on his face as if saying by deed- I darn you to shoot me! Of course the driver forgets he under legal dentition until the officer releases him.

    Yet, if I were that traffic enforcement officer I would have let the driver get back into his vehicle and drive off, as I try the rationale appeal process in a loud and clear voice. As the driver moves off- I think obstruction charges, evading charges, etc; a string of felonies worth mentioning in video shown on U-tube.

    Remember driving is a privilege not a right.


  • Goober
    Nov. 22, 2007 2:58 p.m.

    This is a prime example of the abuse and neglect of power that has been passed from the president to our lower public police who think they can trample over the rights of individual americans.
    Thank Bush for this Attitude
    Tkatz

  • AnonymousPerson2
    Nov. 22, 2007 3:01 p.m.

    Agreed. This was horrifyingly unjustified. Don't get me wrong, I think tasers are a great alternative to using a gun, but tasers should be used only when a cop would otherwise use a gun. Would this same cop have pulled a gun on this guy and shot him to death? I think not. This guy needs to get criminally tried for unlawful force(if there is such a thing nowadays).

  • billy
    Nov. 22, 2007 3:12 p.m.

    Hey common sense.... I'm 100% on your side but do have to correct you on one thing.. Radar guns have 2 different settings. 1 for stationary monitoring and one for mobile monitoring. (IE. If I'm traveling east and you're going west, you actual speed still shows on the radar.) Other than that... This man has NO BUSINESS being in any position of authority! Fire him and let him get a job at Mc D's

  • Anon.
    Nov. 22, 2007 6:35 p.m.

    "A person who abuses his power, acts so unprofessional and then jokes about it, should not be in law enforcement." - That's the key that UHP are known for. I understand that they must protect themselves in the line of duty but this incident is ridiculous. Thank goodness I'm not living in Utah. I've had experiences with them in the past and because of them, I don't think highly of them anymore. They need to develop people skills seriouisly if they ever want people's trust back again. Loooong way to go.

  • Had-Enough-With-Excessive-Force
    Nov. 22, 2007 9:04 p.m.

    It's simple. This cop and his police unit supervisors can NEVER JUSTIFY tasering that young man.

    This cop had an UNPROFESSIONAL AND AGGRESSIVE attitude from the GET-GO. His actions should have been a complete FAILURE AND EMBARRASSMENT TO LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ACROSS THIS GREAT COUNTRY.

    The cop also CONVENIENTLY TWISTED - "LIED" to his fellow officer when he arrived, regarding the details of what happened? -- check the tape beginning to end.

    FIRE THE COP TODAY, NOT NEXT WEEK !! FIRE HIM FOR HIS LYING, AS MUCH AS BAD AND UNPROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT.


  • HR in South Jordan
    Nov. 22, 2007 9:40 p.m.

    I'm glad this incident happened. I've watched the video numerous times and really enjoyed it. Perhaps we can get another taser video starring Brian Bernard at some point.

  • Bolivar
    Nov. 22, 2007 9:40 p.m.

    This trooper went over the edge on this one. He clearly abused his authority. There was no threat or hint of bodily injury occuring so pulling a weapon was clearly over the top. If this one goes to court the patrolman is going to come out looking bad as well as the Utah Highway Patrol. This cop needs to brush up on his people skill and resist the tempation to impress people with his authority.

  • GWC
    Nov. 22, 2007 11:51 p.m.

    The idiot driver was argumentative and not complying with the orders of the trooper. The idiot turns and is walking away, with his hand in his pocket no less, while the trooper is ORDERING him to stop. What was the trooper suppose to do? Fight the idiot by the side of the highway? Shoot him with his pistol? Let him get in his car and drive away? Or, zap his dumb butt? The trooper chose correctly. The idiot wasn't even hurt. He was up walkin' around flappin' his stupid mouth in a matter of seconds. The idiot got what he deserved. All this crap for a speeding ticket!!

  • Bob
    Nov. 23, 2007 6:16 a.m.

    At 48, I just decided, after a life time of not agreeing with the ACLU, to become a member. The fascist storm troopers and the courts that support them are out of hand. If we don't re-take our rights, they will be gone forever.

  • Harry
    Nov. 23, 2007 6:59 a.m.

    Utah can now put out new state slogans:

    IN UTAH, ELECTROCUTION IS NOT JUST FOR MURDERERS ANYMORE.

    COME TO UTAH, AMERICA'S ABU GRAIB.

    UTAH - WE'LL SHOCK YOU WITH OUR COURTESY, PROFESSIONALISM AND RESPECT.

    UTAH - THE TORTURE STATE.

    UTAH STATE MOTTO - "DON'T TASE ME BRO!"

    UHP - WE ESCALATE TENSIONS.

    UTAH - MARQUIS DE SADE TASED HERE.

  • DJ
    Nov. 23, 2007 8:35 a.m.

    You must sign a ticket? Strange, I've never signed a parking ticket in my life, how so?

    This cop was obviously having a bad day. He should be fired and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    The Constitution and our rights, are the rights of the people from their government. No one, has to say one thing to anyone in government. Ever hear of the right to remain silent?

    If this isn't a wake up call to people in Utah, I don't know what it will take. I guess, when your on the receiving end of some nutcase cop, will you decide to act.

  • am
    Nov. 23, 2007 8:58 a.m.

    I agree with GWC. The man was obviously on some kind of drug induced ranting rage, a danger to himself and countless others on the highway. All people who act in this manner should be at the leased Tasered if not shoot. Like here in Russia we taser people for everything from buttoning up too many buttons on their coats to people who look different. We dont think of it as unlawfull use of force we think of it as free mental health treatment.

  • Dan
    Nov. 23, 2007 9:43 a.m.

    Don't forget that people (even young, healthy people not under the influence of any drug) do occasionally die as a result of the shock a Taser delivers. It should only be used when necessary to bring control to a potentially dangerous situation. An unsigned traffic ticket is not a dangerous situation, and the driver would still get a default judgment entered against him if he failed to appear in court.

  • Darren Dupre
    Nov. 23, 2007 10:39 a.m.

    Lol, you cops are hilarious. The video indicts the cop perfectly. For one thing, it is clear that the cop saw the guy get out of his vehicle and saw exactly what he was doing with his hands (With a piece of paper, plainly obvious).

    The fact that the cop didn't feel "threatened" until the man had his back to the cop shows how cowardly and gutless he was.

    If we ever get to a point where social order breaks down and people have to fend for themselves, who would you trust? A police officer who spits on the people or your common man and woman?

  • Darren Dupre
    Nov. 23, 2007 11:35 a.m.

    "Seldom are traffic stops wrong or incorrect."

    BS, Darryl. It happens all the time. Do you think cops are infallable? Cops often have ticket quotas, too. Do you think cops are all honest people?

    "It has always been comical to me when speeders or reckless drivers have the audacitry to argue or become belligerent when stopped by an officer."

    And it always makes me wonder why cops always like to put on power trips with old ladies and fathers with their kids listening in the car. So much for "to protect and to serve". Now the theme is "Conform and Obey".

    Officers can do no wrong in your eyes.

  • John Evans
    Nov. 23, 2007 2:00 p.m.

    The cop had the option of placing the ticket on his car and leaving the ticket in force. The law did not require that he arrest him. He arrested him because he was annoyed at the guy and wanted to teach him a lesson. The driver might be annoying, but the cop must act professionally anyway. I used to have a lot of respect for cops and thought that the people who complained about them should just follow the law and learn some respect. Now, in the past couple of years as it has become much easier to see them in action, it's clear that a huge number of them are just sick thugs. Sure there are many who are decent hard-working professionals doing a difficult job, but with so many sadistic cops out there, I really can't trust any of them anymore.

    John

  • ma
    Nov. 24, 2007 8:40 a.m.

    To even be drawn into either side of the argument is to miss the point completely.

    #1. Police and law enforcement are NOT the citizens superiors by ANY stretch of the imagination, PERIOD! They ARE, out of control employees!

    #2. For the past 60 years it's been about two things only... revenue, and a usurped, illusionary
    authority over the public to aquire such... and we allowed it to happen.

  • Brian Chandliss
    Nov. 24, 2007 9:23 a.m.

    Jared is a control freak who discovered a situation where he couldn't be in control. Even at the end (of the video) he tries to intimidate the Trooper by talking about Miranda rights.

  • 14justice
    Nov. 24, 2007 10:49 a.m.

    Before the taser was invented the police carried billy-clubs --- anybody remember? In the Rodney King case, the billy-club was used freely and the after effects were obvious and undeniable. Video of the incident led to riots.

    Unlike the billy-club the taser leaves no lumps or bruises and draws no blood. If the video had only shown Rodney King being tasered multiple times, would there have been riots and charges of brutality? Apparently not, since many videos of such incidents are available on Youtube today.

    In my view, any device used by the police that causes its victim to fall to the ground screaming represents police brutality. I don't understand why there is no public outcry against this device.

    The taser allows the police to torture innocent people with impunity since its victims appear to be unharmed (physically, that is).

    Tasers should be banned. If police MUST use force, let them use it honestly. Bring back the billy-club.

  • Jason H
    Nov. 24, 2007 1:49 p.m.

    14justice, tasers have two prongs that enter the target's skin whice are removed by a medical team after the incident has de-escalated.

    Police brutality is when an officer uses excessive force to achieve compliance. Tasers, police batons, and pepper spray are all tools that are less-lethal; meaning they are short of deadly force. Less-lethal force has its uses and saves lives. For example, a police officer in Colorado was attacked by a teenager wielding two kitchen knives. Instead of utilizing deadly force (e.g. his firearm), he elected to use a taser, which likely saved the kid's life. If he had not had a taser, he would have had no choice but to use deadly force instead.

    I'm not arguing that the officer's actions in the speeding ticket case here were appropriate. I AM saying, however, that you cannot automatically brand tasers cruel and barbaric when they have saved many lives in other occasions. It is the officer, not his tools, that determines whether there is excessive force, or "police brutality".

  • troy richards
    Nov. 24, 2007 8:36 p.m.

    if a person does not comply with a police officer he is responsible for what happens next, I have no pity for this jerk, and jerk is what he is, a jerk for speeding and a jerk for not complying with a lawful command. All you libs need to realize we need respect for law and order not punks doing as they please with out any consequences.

  • Fellow Traveller
    Nov. 25, 2007 6:15 p.m.

    the cops, former cops, and law&order creeps will defend police no matter what police do.

    the 'liberals' will attack all police actions no matter what they are.

    this society is SO polarized that it is now dangerous to drive in an Utah highway, evidently.

    as to driving is a privelege?

    hmmm

    well with gas at nearly $100.00, and with it taking about 6 months for gas prices to catch up,

    there may be a time when highway traffic will be 90% less than now.

    at that point, what will these aggressive cops DO?

    when the economy crashes, and a breakdown of social order really happens, it isn't going to be a good thing to be a cop.

    events like this one will be rememberd.

    you-tube can be spammed by 'the usual suspects' but ppl ARE going to remember this.

    when they are cold and hungry, they REALLY WILL remember this video incident.

    at that point, i would NOT want to be a highway patrol cop, trooper, or what have ya.

    government officials and cops seem to forget about the idea of 'blow-back'.

    irag is a good example fo that idea.

    too bad no one is seeing or listening.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 25, 2007 8:11 p.m.

    Trooper Gardner = Buck Savage (cops know this one)

    After shooting Massey with the taser, ol' Gardner was standing there alone with no backup, with the taser in 1 hand and cuffs in the other, not knowing if Massey's wife had a weapon to shoot him with. If I were Gardner's supervisor I would fire him for gross incompetence.

    Massey's an asshole but that's not against the law - abusing people in the name of government is though. It sux to run into a jerk like Massey, but that comes with the territory.

    Then Gardner went over to taunt Massey's wife. Real classy move there.

    If I ever get pulled over in Utah I'll definitely have my pistol cocked and ready (but then again I'll probably just sign the danged ticket).

    I don't want to hear any more about how hard it is to be a cop. Everybody has a hard job. I used to be a narc officer - now I'm Joe civilian - and I can honestly say most cops can't cut it in the real world with a real job.

  • Wendy Weinbaum
    Nov. 26, 2007 11:34 a.m.

    Massey should have signed the ticket, BUT the cop WAS trigger-happy. As a Jewess in the US, I ask: Why can't we ALL put our 2nd Amendment FIRST?

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 26, 2007 12:24 p.m.

    Troy Richards,

    You must like the idea of living in a communist regime. Police officers are getting out of control because of the powers they have. Cops are paid with tax money and they should be held accountable by those who pay their salary, the tax paying public, not by their own departments. Trooper Gardner was clearly out of line and just looking for an opportunity to use his new toy so he could then brag to another officer about the "ride" that this motorist got to take. If that doesn't show an abuse of power, I don't know what does. When all of our rights are taken away such as the right to know what we are being charged with, ect, you can thank guys like Troy. They don't see the need to question abuses of power. He must also be a tax-fed parasite like the honorable trooper Gardner.

  • one_freeman
    Nov. 26, 2007 2:56 p.m.

    deputy dog sez: remember driving is a privilege - not a right.

    WRONG!

    Numerous court cases have clearly stated that driving, ie, traveling about for one's personal reasons, is a RIGHT not a privilege. Only when one is engaged inb using the roads for commercial business does this become a privilege.

    So, deputy dog,as well as others of like mind, it would behoove you to purge yourself of those fascist misconceptions that you have been indoctrinated with learn what your true rights are rather than what the dot.gov has conned you into believing.

  • Gregory R.
    Nov. 26, 2007 3:35 p.m.

    Mrs. Massey would have been completely within her rights to respond to Trooper Gardner's assault on her husband with whatever force was necessary to disarm or disable the officer and rescue Jared Massey.

    Under the circumstances, with her husband lying bleeding and stunned by the side of a highway because of the actions of an armed and aggressive man, the pregnant woman might well have been fully within her rights to draw a gun and shoot Officer Gardner.

    It's just fortunate that didn't happen.

    Without regard to any of the specifics of this stop, Officer Gardener blatantly lies to his fellow officer at the end this video.

    Can the Utah Highway Patrol, or the citizens of Utah for that matter, really allow this officer to continue to testify in court after the citizens of Utah have a video in which his integrity is so clearly shown lacking?

  • DSMDavy
    Nov. 26, 2007 5:53 p.m.

    The orginal article was contradictory anyway. First they say the officer has the right to arrest someone for not signing a ticket, and in the next breath, they say not signing a ticket is not a crime under Utah State Law. Which is it??

    The cop was way out of line.

  • Match 10 Colt
    Nov. 27, 2007 8:46 a.m.

    Sorry, deputy dog. I disagree. Driving is a right. We, in the USA have the Consititution and Bill of Rights, as inalienable. We have the right to travel unfettered. Just as the drafters of the Constitution had no idea what form travel would take, it is guarranteed. Cars are the tools, and the most common method of travel second only to walking. Car travel is not limited.

    It's the same as the Second Ammendment: The guns were not foreseen to their future, but are guarranteed. I need no license to keep my guns, or bear them in a responsible manner.

  • Bobby Jo
    Nov. 27, 2007 8:28 p.m.

    I Think that if you sped, then you should just sighn the stupid ticket. If you felt like you need a better warning, whats a better warning then a gun pointed at you? I think that the respect for law enforcment is in the toilet.

  • Jay
    Dec. 1, 2007 9:20 a.m.

    Jared clearly has a problem with authority. His actions brought on the officers reaction (excessive or not).
    Mr. Massey could have avoided this situation by (a) not speeding (b) following the officer's direct orders. (c)not thinking he was above the law. I do feel bad for
    Jared and his Wife, the whole ordeal is traumatic. Bottom line, it could have been avoided.

  • Ben
    Dec. 3, 2007 5:05 p.m.

    "The UCC code does not apply to normal citizens, the UCC code just apply to merchants in the course of their business."

    Omar, you poor, naive fool. If you took a driver's license, if you have a Social Security card, if you have a passport, you are part of their commercial system. Through any one of the government services you have to sign up for anymore, you inherently sign yourself away as a cog in their system.

    I think it's a great policy to never sign anything the government hands you.

  • SumSood
    Oct. 10, 2008 7:49 a.m.

    Yes..The speeder was an idiot. Sign the ticket and move on. If he had done what was asked he woudnt have had this problem.

    However, The officer could have had better judgement on his part.

    He (and those like him ) are the reason so many people do not like cops in the first place.

    Both Cop and civilian are idiots.