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Jury finds Jeffs guilty

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  • Tim
    Sept. 25, 2007 1:31 p.m.

    This article has moved me like no other.

  • Curious
    Sept. 25, 2007 1:47 p.m.

    Why can't they charge Jeffs with polygamy since that is what this is all about? Also, if the 19 year old cousin did rape his 14 year old cousin, why isn't he being charged for rape?

  • Dear Curious
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:22 p.m.

    Because they're not legal marriages, just a bunch of people living together. They're "spiritual marriages". It's when the men become sexual predators on the young women, that illegalities are incurred.

    GUILTY GUILTY!

  • Curious-er
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:29 p.m.

    Why does it take a complaint from within to actually get the authorities to finally take some action?

  • Motley
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:30 p.m.

    He should be locked up forever as well as all the men that have taken child brides under the belief of polygamy!!!!!

  • ma`at
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:33 p.m.

    Our justice system has a pulse after all . . .

  • Doug Barber
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:40 p.m.

    I have several questions about this case. One: Why does this man face life in prison when, in Utah, many a murderer serves 15 years and goes free? Two: Why are the young woman's mother and father not charged?

    I fully understand that a charismatic leader can take advantage of underage people who should not be expected to have developed fully formed powers of reason, and a fully formed conscience.

    I do not understand why the alleged victim's parents are not having their feet held to the fire, if indeed this is a case that should have been brought in the first place.

    Freedom of religion means nothing if it is limited to "freedom to practice those religions likely to win the approval the approval of a jury."

  • Kate
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:41 p.m.

    Thank heavens. It's about time this man is put behind bars.

  • Interesting
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:43 p.m.

    I think the defense attorney has a good point. Is this about sex or religion? Since the prosecutors followed the sex rout why is the ex-husband not charged and on the stand for Martial rape, and the mother and other family members on the stand for the same charge as Jeffs. I do not condone what Jeffs did and in no way agree with his religious views, I just question the way the prosecutors are trying to reach "justice". Is this just an example case? Or is it about the deepest pockets?(to help the civil case referenced).

    That being said, I'm glad a young girl received relief for what she has suffered.

  • Anonymous
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:44 p.m.

    Dear Curious:
    From what I understand technically they are not performing legal marriages between multiple women and one man. They call it a "spiritual" marriage but don't get the marriage license and all of that, so it is really difficult to prosecute them for polygamy because by law it is just one man sleeping with several women and having lots of kids.

    About the 19 year old, he wasn't a big enough fish to fry. He was a tool in the case and in the hands of Jeffs. I'm sure the prosecutors saw that he himself would not have initiated the marriage without Jeff's insistence.

  • Why not the Cousin?
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:47 p.m.

    In my opinion he likely will now be charged. If you read the jury instructions they had to find that the cousin did in fact rape her. This does not equate to a conviction of him. He can't serve time based on this court's finding. They can now charge him, and also in my opinion, they will offer him a plea bargain. I would imagine that they can use every word he said in the court here against him. If it is found he was not telling the truth in this court I am sure they could hold perjury chargers over his head. Great job Washington County. You knew what you were doing. Called the right witnesses and rested your case way before we all thought you would. I just wonder if the jury ever saw pictures of the girl at 14? If not, why not? She was just a little girl.

  • Also Curious
    Sept. 25, 2007 2:49 p.m.

    I was wondering the same thing ... why is Jeffs the only one being charged? In no way am I defending Jeffs or his actions. I just wonder why the cousin/husband, as well as the victims parents are not being charged too. Didn't they play a large role, maybe even as large as Jeffs? Can someone familiar with the case and legal system please explain to me why? Thank you.

  • Mort
    Sept. 25, 2007 3:07 p.m.

    How sad that the FLDS community must see their prophet jailed. the 'victim' of all this will
    stand before the Judgement Seat of God one day
    and explain her actions.

  • Move On
    Sept. 25, 2007 3:12 p.m.

    I think justice has been done, but I fear not much will change now. The way to remove a religious leader isn't to convict him in the courts of some infraction somewhat unrelated to his real offense. That just makes him a martyr and someone else just takes his place.

    I think if we gave him some room, Jeffs was ready to denounce his religion all together (which may have cleared things up once-and-for-all and had a real impact for the future). But because we were using our legal system to threaten him and he was facing being put in jail for the rest of his life if he made that statement, of course he was advised by his lawers to not make that statement. And now he can't. It would be suicide.

    The way to remove a false-prophet is to shed light on him and let his folowers decide to leave him, not put him in jail on some contrived charge. That just feeds into their fear of outsiders and the government opressing them.

    So the zelousness of our prosecutors may have cost us the only real chance we may ever have to resolve this conflict once-and-for-all.

  • Bigotry
    Sept. 25, 2007 3:13 p.m.

    The charges are trumped. This was clearly not rape. They replaced a juror in the final process to get a conviction when the juror thought he was innocent. Also the actual husband was not charged so we also no its not rape.

    Basically this case demonstrates prejudice against the FLDS. Also 98% of those interviewed are very happy living in their FLDS communities.

    Jeffs was frames, that's all there is to it.

  • Legalities
    Sept. 25, 2007 3:15 p.m.

    I'm no lawyer but remember Enron and the other corporate scandals? Many people in the company did illegal things to support the CEO's and other Executives but they were never charged. Jeff's had a position of authority over his followers and had to convince husbands and parents to allow the spiritual marriages of under aged girls. I'm glad that Mark S. and others went for the top just like what happened with Enron. If a religious leader forced all of their followers to break the law they may not go over the million members but they will go after the leader(s). Maybe action will be taken agains parents and husbands but as far as i'm concerned they took down the force behind bad decisions.

  • Frederick of Logan
    Sept. 25, 2007 3:23 p.m.

    I have commented before but never got my remarks printed(accepted) Maybe this time!! Jeffs is not spiritual leader or else he would not have "forced" Jane Doe into a very undesirable marriage even though he preaches that is what God desires and calls it a celestial marriage. The God I know is far different than the God Jeffs knows. God forces no man or woman to heaven. Jeffs got what he deserves is my opinion but I do feel remorse in this situation.

  • Hmm
    Sept. 25, 2007 3:31 p.m.

    How many people who are saying this is a great legal victory would like to see today's LDS church / leaders prosecuted for something like denying women the opportunity to join the highest councils in the church because they are female and cannot hold the priesthood?

    Even though this was not prosecuted as a religion issue, it has many overtones of curtailing freedom of religion / religious practices.

    With that said I do agree with the verdict because the girl was underage, but I think there are other issues to think about too.

  • Rick S
    Sept. 25, 2007 3:32 p.m.

    The parents and cousin could be tried after being formally charged, which they were not in this trial. The victim would need to cooperate for this to be done and perhaps she just doesn't have it in her. It seems that this trial has extracted a high price from her and reliving the whole ugly situation to convict the others, coupled with the conflicted feelings that she would certainly have, just may not be personally worth it to her.

    Prosecutors are often content to cut the head off the snake and leave the rest of it alone. Then again, now that they have a trial win under their belt on this phase, they may be ready to proceed with a second round of indictments and trials.

    I respect other people's right to practice their beliefs, even these polygamists. However, this pedophilia, thinly masked as religiously sanctioned marital sexual activity, has no place anywhere in our society and doubly so for rape. Let adults everywhere realize and understand that these kinds of fixations are wrong and are to be avoided like a plague.

    Jeffs abused the position of authority he had in their culture and I'm glad to see the conviction.

  • sunnystgeorge
    Sept. 25, 2007 3:33 p.m.

    This case is only the beginning of several others. I am sure that the husband will now be charged, as well as other family members. Jeffs now faces charges in Arizona, and then by the Federal Government. I do not believe he will ever see another day outside of a jail or prison.

  • In Agreement
    Sept. 25, 2007 4:10 p.m.

    "Interesting" my limited knowledge of this case indicates that all were victims of Jeffs' rule. Perhaps Steed did not want to marry his cousin either; Jeffs dictated that the marriage was to occur. Perhaps the parents didn't want it anymore than the couple (other than the stepfather, evidently). This appeared to have been a marriage absent of agency, dictated by Warren Jeffs and the FLDS leadership. They decided that the marriage would take place regardless of opposition, and now I'm relieved to see justice done. No one should be able to force a 14 year old girl into an unwanted marriage, NO ONE.

  • Move on?
    Sept. 25, 2007 4:11 p.m.

    So, Move On, you are arguing that the best way to destroy this particular polygamist society is to give Jeffs some "room" so he can go and renounce his religion and tell everyone to go home. I'm sure this was exactly what he was going to do--but, oops, now they've blown it by putting him away.

    Are you serious? Or are you actually a resident of Hilldale?

  • BC
    Sept. 25, 2007 4:15 p.m.

    Quit complaining! Wait a minute and celebrate the conviction of an evil man. If 12 months passes by and no one else is charged then you can complain.

  • Frank
    Sept. 25, 2007 4:26 p.m.

    I'd agree with Rick. In this case my guess is its the girl pushing for charges against Jeffs so she can exclude or include anyone she wishes. While its obvious rape occured she doesnt sound like she currently holds a grudge against her cousin, and may not want her parents in jail either. That would be her decision. Then again I havent been able to find written out clearly who the party is that is bringing charges against Jeffs. If the government or state is pressing charges thats different.

  • Appealed
    Sept. 25, 2007 4:30 p.m.

    Before we all raise our hands in thanks giving I think it is important to note that this case is not over.
    It we be appealed and there is a good chance it will be remanded and we will go through this all over again.
    The instructions given to the Jurors by the judge are highly questionable considering they tried him as an accomplice in a rape that has not been proved.
    The Washington county Attorneys office did this backwards, they should have gotten Steed first.
    They went for what they thought would be the easiest conviction. Wait and see this thing is sadly not over yet!

  • Severn Glance
    Sept. 25, 2007 4:30 p.m.

    I was initially relieved to hear the verdict. On reflection, however, I still think justice was served, but I also think it raises some serious questions. Polygamy has been against the law in Utah since 1890. Have the polygamists not been provided a formula for avoiding further convictions while continuing to practice plural marriage? The judge even clarified when sexual intercourse with a 14 year old was not illegal. It seem they now have a blueprint for avoiding prosecution and it seems as though polygamy has drawn a major pass of approval from the government when Jeffs was not charged with breaking that law and conspiring to have it broken by others. So great, they punish one guy, turn him into a martyr but let the bigger problem persist. The trial and verdict now seem more like a charade to mask the real issue.

  • Amen
    Sept. 25, 2007 4:53 p.m.

    Curious- thank you. I completely agree. It seems like this trial also has alot to do with going after a faith that most of us find weird. Also, if this is about justice, why is there a fat multi-million dollar law suit attached to the case? Will healing be better facilitated with a large house and a Mercedes?

    Maybe she'll donate it to HOPE. That'd be nice.

  • Michelle
    Sept. 25, 2007 4:55 p.m.

    One more thing: Does anyone know what the "event" was that caused one of the jurors to be replaced?

  • not curious
    Sept. 25, 2007 5:55 p.m.

    Why not go after the parents and husband? They were as much victims as the young bride. The truth of what goes on in the community if you do not follow the "prophet" is known. You are excommunicated and your family is reassigned. The brides mother had to go along or she risked losing her children by being kicked out of the community. The husband had to go along also or he would have become one of the "lost boys" not being able to see his family. Can you imagine the threat of losing your children if you did not follow. That is why they get the girls before they have too much courage. Get them married and a child on the way and they will stay to protect the child. I feel as much pain for the husband. Can you imagine having to marry someone who does not want you around. Marriage is hard enough when you love someone. And then, they have an affair on you. He was a victim of the system as much as she was. So much for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They were forced as much as she was.

  • why the question
    Sept. 25, 2007 5:58 p.m.

    Seems to me the parents and husband were as much victims as was she.

  • Small Town Paper
    Sept. 25, 2007 6:00 p.m.

    Warren Jeffs, one of the only people who probably has both a "council" and a "counsel".

    Unfortunately DesNews doesn't know the difference, since the caption to the photo says "council".

  • not curious
    Sept. 25, 2007 6:01 p.m.

    I don't understand why you question the husband and parents not being charged are they as much victims as she. Did they not stand to lose their "eternal family" if they did not follow. I feel sorry for them all that a man would hurt so many in the name of God.

  • K
    Sept. 25, 2007 6:26 p.m.

    Are you kidding me "hmmm"? Lets think about what law is being broken by not letting women on the highest councils in the church....none...the Real LDS church does not break any laws....Making cousins marry when the girl is only 14 and not "letting" women have the priesthood or whatever are two totally different things. Lame comment!
    That man is finally getting his just desserts!

  • Molly
    Sept. 25, 2007 6:30 p.m.

    To Michelle:
    Sounds a little fishy to me.....

  • susan
    Sept. 25, 2007 6:51 p.m.

    this jeffs guy sounds like he's pimpin' for christ - this whole story makes me want to scrub my eyeballs.

  • VonVon
    Sept. 25, 2007 7:09 p.m.

    I know several people from Hildale. Some following their prophet, some not. I feel sorry for the whole bunch but I think they ought to be able to see the problem and get out. If they want to live like that, except the young kids, its their right, but they should be able to take care of their children without state & govt help. They are a big drain on the system. How can anyone take care of and feed 35 kids? Have you ever been to a WICK meeting? Pretty disgusting. They also shouldn't be telling anyone they are LDS.

  • Clarification
    Sept. 25, 2007 7:24 p.m.

    I heard this issue clarified:
    This was about Child Abuse. It is not against the law to marry at fourteen if with parental consent and if wanted by both parties. But this was about force (or perceived force by a child). Child abuse is never ok. The boy wasn't charged and probably won't be because he was brought up this way as well. He felt he "had" to marry when he was told. Also, the above comments about "spiritual marriages" are correct. They aren't legal anywhere, but in their religion. If forced, they are unlawful. Warren Jeffs performed this marriage and would not let it be "undone". This case was not directly about polygamy because there were not any other "marriages" involved. But if anyone remembers Tom Green and his case there were also multiple marriages involved (bigamy). He was convicted and served 7 years.
    This ruling may not defer consenting adults, but it will help stop the underage "marriages". And in that I believe that this will help defer it because many of these "marriages" were "expected" by leaders and family at an early age.

  • A Bridge too Far
    Sept. 25, 2007 7:36 p.m.

    I am glad those of you that think the cousin, parents and polygamists should all be charged were not trying this case or on the jury. You would have tried to grab too much and got nothing. Perhaps this woman would not have testified against her cousin, family and friends, because they are all interrelated. There was only one issue and it wasn't religion, it was pedophilia, and no different than a family friend, who with the permission of the parents uses their child for child porn. In order to get anything out of this and prevent Jeffs from being viewed as the victim think pedophilia. Perhaps other families in this religion will see and understand it for what it is. This is not the Middle Ages or the Middle East.

  • Good Thoughts
    Sept. 25, 2007 7:56 p.m.

    I think you're right! I hope so.

  • Divee
    Sept. 25, 2007 8:25 p.m.

    Thanks Bridge to far. Pedophilia it is. my friend Flora Jessop escaped this community when she was 14. Jeffs made her marry her cousin too. She left. They "caught " her and returned her to her uncle's house. They kept her in a room in solitary confinement for 3 years and as she tells it, "Beat satan outta me". She eventually got out and is a child advocate against abuse. The side of her SUV reads, POLYGAMY IS CHILD ABUSE.com. I asked her once why she never seemed to smile. She said that as a baby , when she would cry, her aunt would put her face under the running tap water. "Cause you can't cry and breathe at the same time" she says.
    Women are described by the men as nothing more than farm animals. They make em work in the fields with the kids, make em cook , clean, etc during the day and then make them have sex in the next room where their other "wife "is with the kids. Usually the new sex partner is a "sister" and probably her younger sister. It ain't religion. It's torture. It has to be exposed for what it is.

  • R Webster
    Sept. 25, 2007 8:28 p.m.

    Several People have stated that the step-father, mother and young man were all victims because they were afraid of losing their families and their status in their community. So what? They made their choice. They were adults with a whole lot more power in their lives than that young girl ever had. Any of them could have left the community, with their dependents, at any time. Would it have been hard? Yes. So what? Life is full of hard decisions. That doesn't abrogate them of their responsibility toward those that depend upon them and to obedience to the law, if not their own consciences. They are every bit as guilty as Jeffs, because their duty and responsibility was to the child who was totally dependent upon them.

  • Tom
    Sept. 25, 2007 8:29 p.m.

    I can't believe the good people of Utah waited this long to lock up these sickos. I am sure there are tons more where this one came from maybe even more guilty

  • brooke
    Sept. 25, 2007 8:33 p.m.

    It clear to me that Jeffs was framed. Why are the Prosecutors so happy? They have used a very corrupt legal system to convict someones religious beliefs which were ingrained from birth. I believe some Muslums practice polygamy. Where is the outrage there? What should have happened to Brigham Young? Didn't he have 27 wives? 14 years old is rather young but old enough to look at history and see that people for 1000's of years have married that young.

  • ED
    Sept. 25, 2007 8:49 p.m.

    Give me a break. The "real" Mormon church only gave up polygamy when the "Church" wanted Utah statehood. But they did not give it up as a tenant of the religion. I think the "real" Mormons protesteth too much. The girl's mother, father, and husband are all culpable. But, who must we prosecute... only the prophet. In Utah, we can only have one prophet, you know.

  • R Webster
    Sept. 25, 2007 9:01 p.m.

    To brooke: The children of Hilldale and Colorado city receive very little education, let alone a course on comparative religion. Their practical world knowledge is severely restricted in order to control them. Also, while there are Muslims practicing polygamy throughout the world, they do not legally practice it in the United States. There are also a lot of Muslims who want you dead simply for being an American. Does that make it OK? Knowing that they want you dead, should you off yourself just to save them the trouble? Somehow, I don't think that is something you want to do.

  • WAKE UP AND SEE THE ABUSE
    Sept. 25, 2007 9:08 p.m.

    It is about time that Utah is actually doing something about child abuse. This state is one of the most apathetic and false when it comes to pursuing child abusers. We should pull together as a cummunity and help those who want to get out of this life situation. Ex: The lost boys. There are so many women and children that wish to leave, but there is not really an open network to help them. We need to put more funding together, more safe houses to help these kids.

  • T
    Sept. 25, 2007 9:14 p.m.

    Even though this trial was not supposed to be about polygamy, I'll comment as such to the above posts. 1) Just because young girls at the age of 14 married for a thousand years, doens't make it okay today. They also used to hang women (and men) who they thought were "witches." Is that okay today? 2) I don't know what "should have been done" with Brigham Young marrying multiple wives, but several early Church leaders were put into prison for "unlawful cohabitation." George Q. Cannon comes to mind. Heber J. Gant was charged and fined for breaking the "unlawful cohabitation" law in 1899 (9 years after the Manifesto), although he was not sent to jail. I understand that many Mormon Fundamentalists base their faith on "God does not change, nor do His ways," so they keep living in plural marriage. But they could at least soften up the rules a little like the Bluffdale bunch, and not initiate "arranged marriages" and require all participants of the marriage to be at least 18 years of age.

  • Sue
    Sept. 25, 2007 9:14 p.m.

    I am so glad that finally something like this has happened. Maybe now all those women and children and be freed from all the abuse that they get. Everything that these poligamst do and teach there young is against the law. I have always wonder even as a young person why these people got away with all the abuse and even murder. I hope that the legal system will not stop but just keep on keeping on.

    As for the parents of the young lady and the cousin I sure they were victoms of Jeffs and I am sure they to will be charged and face there day. The ball has just started to roll. I say let it go and stop all the abuse and fraud. Maybe the gov. could get more mony for health care of schools if they didn't have to take care of all those fraudulant poligs.

    Oh and by the way when Brigham Young had all his wives it was not against the law. and He took care of them not the gov.

    POLIGAMY NEEDS TO STOP !!! Or THEY NEED TO GO TO THE COUNTRYS THAT ALLOW TERRORISM.

  • anonymous
    Sept. 25, 2007 9:18 p.m.

    well i also have a comment to make i think that some of you guys are missing is that this so called lds church or flds whatever that means is NOT the original church that was restored in the 1700's there are several differences in the original they dont believe in "spiritual" marriage one has to have the liscense and all and then comes the sexual intercourse where as in the reformed one you dont really get married in the original they abide to mens laws as they do god this man was just under false pretense and really should be convicted and i am glad because the mormon religion has enough dirt on them because of all the reformed churches that still carry the name seriously i am glad in one way because raping an innocent child come on man andshe was what 14 right? well im 14 that sucks!

  • Anonymous
    Sept. 25, 2007 9:35 p.m.

    I'm glad that Warren Jeffs was found guilty. I'm disappointed that Elissa's mother and her husband were not also prosecuted. Her husband because he performed the rape and her mother because Elissa's own words were that if her mother had been against the marriage, she would not have gone through with it. Elissa stated that she trusted her mother. Her mother implored Elissa to go through with the marriage for the safety of her soul. I don't see a bit of difference between the counsel Warren Jeffs gave Elissa and the counsel her mother gave. Both of them therefore should have been prosecuted and found guilty, not just Warren Jeffs.

  • Mongo
    Sept. 25, 2007 9:54 p.m.

    The real abuse I see every day from folks from the "Twin Cities" (Hildale and Colorado City) is in the way they abuse the laws of the land and get away with it. Our grocery stores are full of those folks using their WIC vouchers and Food Stamps that they have obtained through lies and deceit. There are many businesses in So. Utah will not take checks from the cities because they never get paid. We watch them speed through our towns with truck loads of underage workers who are denied schooling and have to work. Come live down here for awhile and you will see plenty of sanctioned abuse. If Joseph Smith were alive, they would all be excommunicated for fraud.

  • Cricker
    Sept. 25, 2007 9:59 p.m.

    Glad Warren went down. He is a great pretender sent by Satan to destroy the one true restored church. Now if Heavenly Father will provide us with a real prophet the true restored church can get back on its feet. The FLDS is the real church of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor.

  • Denise
    Sept. 25, 2007 10:17 p.m.

    I understand the questions of why others were not prosecuted in this case. Maybe now they will -- meantime a very powerful man has been taken down, and hopefully it will have a domino affect and save so many other repressed and abused people.

  • just a thought
    Sept. 25, 2007 10:34 p.m.

    Jeff's clan and the Kingstons are known for child abuse and horrible forced underaged marriages but many clans are not. Many people CHOOSE to live in plural marriage and are well educated and feed and cloth their own children with out Govt. assistance. Who am I to judge them for their choices? They should have the right to live together just like people who chose to "Shack up" with one or more persons and not marry. In fact, in a LOVING plural marriage, children are well cared for by many moms who are as protective as other parents. To know God is to let go of our reigns and allow Him to guide us where He will. That takes faith and confimation by the spirit that it is right. Jeff's denied his followers that right. I'm NOT a polygamist, but I support freedom to choose ones path. I don't support homosexual lifestyles either, BUT I can not deny someone elses right to live that way. I teach my children that God would not have us live certain ways, but if they chose a different path, than I will still love them though there choices may cause me great pain.

  • begs the ?
    Sept. 25, 2007 11:01 p.m.

    can anyone help me out here. honestly. why was jeffs on the nations most wanted list? was it for arranging a marrage? doesn't this happen in other cultures right here in the us? [it does in greek, itialian, arabic and etc] was it for practicing polygamy. i know other cultures practice without fear..think islamic communities in chicago.
    it cant be for the age of the couple, since it's lawful for a 14 and 19 yo to marry in utah. surely not for his religion. do we really want to decide which religous practices are acceptable in a court of law? and lastly, why a life sentence?
    i believe children need to be protected.
    i believe the law should be applied fairly and uniformly. since it's not, i think jeffs is being made a martyr in a very real sense. no, i don't belong to any polygamous community, [i happen to be monogamous] but this whole thing smacks of a witch hunt.

  • Puzzled
    Sept. 25, 2007 11:03 p.m.

    As members of the "Real" LDS church, we still believe in Plural Marriage. It is doctrine (D&C 132) waiting to be practiced in another time and place. I think this case, even though it is rife with forms of abuse that were not present in all 19th Mormon plural marriages, is an excellent opportunity for us to look at polygamy in a current context and see how it really looks and feels. Especially to women and girls.

    I personally find it offensive and wrong. There is no possible justification or 'glory' in marrying more than one woman. I would not like it if my wife had another husband.

  • jj
    Sept. 25, 2007 11:07 p.m.

    to wake up & see the abuse,

    Well said, and I agree. Organize community help.

    The children deserve MUCH better than this.

  • Phil
    Sept. 25, 2007 11:19 p.m.

    You guys sure love your neighbor in Utah. Wasn't Jeffs just doing what he was raised to believe? The whole jury stuff will possible lead to a miss trial, ruled of coarse by an upper court.

  • Mary
    Sept. 25, 2007 11:34 p.m.

    I wish the mormon faith would take a look at the Jeff's situation and realize that their beloved prophet, Joseph Smith, did exactly what Jeff's did. For some reason mormons they don't want to believe that---it's called brainwashing. Being raised in the mormon religion---I am grateful to have not let the brainwashing I received as a child within the mormon faith continue with me into adulthood. FLDS, mormons, it's all the same.

  • anonymous is a State thing!!!
    Sept. 25, 2007 11:37 p.m.

    Hey check this out; Persons who are at least 18-years of age are considered adults and do not need parental or guardian consent to obtain a marriage license. Minors between the ages of 14 and 17-years of age must have written parental consent on the official form signed in the presence of the county clerk, or have an order from the Texas district court authorizing the marriage. Minors under the age of 14-years are not allowed to marry.

    And this;

    TOPEKA, Kan., May 5 (UPI) -- A bill setting 15 as the minimum legal age for marriage has received final legislative approval in Kansas.

    Kansas is the only state with no age requirement. Gov. Kathleen Sibelius is expected to sign the bill, the Wichita Eagle reported.

  • Interloper
    Sept. 25, 2007 11:39 p.m.

    I am heartened by most of the responses on this thread because they hold Jeffs responsible for his conduct as his flock's 'god on Earth.' However, there are apologists for Jeffs here, too. They are offering some really bizarre reasoning that boils down to 'protect Jeffs at any cost.'

    As for the person who claims the verdicts will be overturned on appeal, I doubt that. All of the elements of the crime of rape as an accomplice were met. Ms. Wall was coerced, did not consent and there was more than a three-year age difference between her and her putative husband. The people who keep obsessing over whether force was used are missing the point. Force is not necessary for the conviction.

    I do not think the putative husband or Ms. Wall's parents will be charged. And, I believe that is correct. Their autonomy was next to non-existent once 'The Prophet' ordered them to do as told.


  • Age, is a state thing
    Sept. 26, 2007 12:05 a.m.

    Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative,
    What?!? My first comments was removed, Why?

    My info came off the web! Check out the LAW in Texas and Kansas for yourself. JC

  • Emma
    Sept. 26, 2007 10:16 a.m.

    Many here don't seem to know their own church history. Warren Jeffs was just "following the prophet" who did exactly the same even though underage marriage was just as bizarre then.

  • John Haverty
    Sept. 26, 2007 10:21 a.m.

    Not that I support statutory rape, but it should be known that in America in the late 1700's, it was not uncommon for the wives of men to be 13.

    And in a modern sense, who cares if a man has more than one wife as long as they all agree? Its a private contract between agreeing adults.

  • jj
    Sept. 26, 2007 10:26 a.m.

    I wonder if Jeffs will be able to post bond, until the sentencing phase begins (in Nov)?
    I hope that the flight risk thing, enters into this equation !!

  • Heather
    Sept. 26, 2007 2:11 p.m.

    Just a little history lesson for everyone. The LDS church was restored in the 1800's, not the 1700's. Many of the early leaders had multiple wives as a way of caring for the women of the church because in those days, women had no rights without a husband and there were not enough men to go around. A woman could not own property, livestock, anything, she had no legal rights - that was by US gov't laws, not church laws. The solution was consensual adult plural marriage, which was outlawed by the US gov't as an excuse to prosecute the church and arrest influential leaders. One of the tenants of the LDS church is to obey the laws of the land. Men did not abandon their wives when the law was passed, but the leadership tried very hard to make sure that no new plural marriages occured. When what is now the FDLS church broke off they continued plural marriage, and has obviously perverted even their own religion over the years. Early plural marriage, no matter what your veiws on it, bears no resemblance to what Jeffs does now. Religion is not the issue - child welfare is.

  • Kristof
    Sept. 26, 2007 8:45 p.m.

    its good at least that this whackjob got convicted but again im a little confused what the REAL goal behind it was.. granted i believe all ppl who rape or are accomplices to rape should be sent to jail and/or castrated.. but did they want to get him for polygamy or what? i agree that if you wish to root out a false prophet you must shed light onto his falsehoods and if that was the objective they failed.. if it was to convict him of rape i agree they need to go after all consenting members who helped the cousin rape her.. there is no excuse to hurt children, women, or animals in my eyes and religion is the furthest thing from an excuse for any wrong act.. just my 2 cents on the whole thing. I think its a bit odd how the case went through but I suppose thats why I'm not a lawyer.. If there is any sort of higher power I don't believe that they would approve of any such acts as what he has done.. I don't dissaprove of polygamy.. I believe one can love many different people.. so dont call me a bigot..

  • DEBATER
    Sept. 28, 2007 1:30 p.m.

    ===


    Continuation of Literary Efforts/Work: research, fact/fiction, or both and disclaimers.



    W. Jeff was found guilty of:



    "ABUSE OF FORCING IDEALS" ON A 14 YEARS OLD CHILD


    and


    ABUSE OF FORCING IDEAL-PRIORITIES-FALLACIES ON A 14 YEARS OLD CHILD


    OR

    ABUSE OF FORCING "IDEAL-FALLACIES" ON A 14 YEARS OLD CHILD


  • in response to mary
    Sept. 29, 2007 7:10 p.m.

    well in response to mary's comment joseph smith did not do what jeffs did. prophet joesph smith did not molest or abuse little girls there was simply not enough men to go around in our religion we believe in not having sex until we are married and how would prophet smith do so he being the leader people would think all he said was lies. mary you may want to call it brainwashing but that is not what the church is. also i am very disgusted at the fact that jeff used a religion to justify what he did only a true pig could do that.

  • Perversion
    Nov. 20, 2007 6:29 p.m.

    Good riddance to bad rubbish!!